Game Bargain of the Century

[17daysolderthannes]

what is that bargain you ask?

The Dreamcast

http://t3chdzyn.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/dreamcast05.jpg

If you aren't an uptight square that's too proud to pirate, for a mere $20 you can gain access to some of the best damn games ever made. The Dreamcast may have been short lived, but in its short life it amassed some of the best exclusives to ever grace a Sega system, improved ports of some of the best N64 and PSX games (lookin' at you Tony Hawk!), and a homebrew lineup that probably beats out just about every other system out there.

A quick trip to any of a number of sites hosting .cdi files (PM me if you want details, unless mods give me permission to post ROM sites without actual file linking) will grant you access to the full library of DC games, near perfect emulators for NES and SMS/GG, a serviceable Genesis emulator, and an SNES emulator good enough to hit a few high points (SMW, Square RPGs, DKC), a handful of playable AES/Neo CD games via Neo4All, not to mention great homebrew like Beats of Rage. Just download Diskjuggler, double click the .cdi file, insert a blank CD-R, click burn, put it in the Dreamcast, enjoy.

Dreamcasts are so cheap you might as well keep one in every room in the house. Why not? buy the DC+hookups for $20 and a CD-R spindle for another $10 and you can have a solid collection of games in just a few hours of burning. I just bought a brand new looking Sega Sports DC for $25 shipped off of eBay with power cable and composite A/V cables. Even better, HD TVs aren't left out of the loop because you can utilize the VGA adapter and let the amazing graphic quality show in all its glory.

Why the Dreamcast isn't selling for $100 a piece is a mystery to me, there is no game system that offers a better value if you aren't afraid to violate the copyrights on 10 year old games. Hell, even the homebrew alone is worth the $20 price tag. And don't be afraid of CD-R games that allegedly wear out the laser, this is only true of unoptimized games that cause the laser to track non-stop during gameplay, which I've only encountered in Fatal Fury Mark of the Wolves and Propeller Arena because of the voice samples in-game (and Tokyo Xtreme Racer 2, but that's because the track is streamed during gameplay, the real disc does this as well).

Oh, and did I mention the Dreamcast got some of the most notable 2D fighters of all time? MvC2 was most arcade accurate on Dreamcast. Capcom vs. SNK and CvS2 were both best on DC as well. The Toodles Capcom Fighter Collection .cdi has those and much more all on one crazy awesome disc. And what about shooters? boatloads. Ikaruga, Bangai-O, Mars Matrix, Borderdown, Zero Gunner 2, just to name a few. Racing games have some landmark titles as well like the über sim Ferrari F355 Challenge, one of the best examples of the CarPG: Tokyo Xtreme Racer 2, and one of the best arcade-sim racers ever made: Metropolis Street Racer.

So what is this thread about you ask?

I'M TELLIN YOU TO GO BUY A GOD DAMN DREAMCAST, THAT'S WHAT!

PS: quit bitchin' about the controller, the Total Control Plus lineup has you covered:

http://image1.play-asia.com/350/PA.00527.002.jpg

Any PS2 arcade stick, dual shock (wireless or not), tilt-sense (like the psyclone), etc. all work wonderfully. There's also another Total Control Plus that allows for Saturn controllers for those with a fetish for gamepads over arcade sticks.

[adamx]

you can buy em brand new in the box for 99 bucks, not bad for something thats never been opened.

[sega fan]

you can buy em brand new in the box for 99 bucks, not bad for something thats never been opened.

Yes.

[TheRollingStoner]

The Dreamcast will be the next system I buy. Don't tell anyone, but I do plan on pirating games and running emulators/homebrew, what have you.

[sega fan]

The Dreamcast will be the next system I buy. Don't tell anyone, but I do plan on pirating games and running emulators/homebrew, what have you.

OH NOES! Dun speek of dat! The fedz iz gunna git yiu!

[sega fan]

hUCyvw4w_yk

Everyone, be careful when you pirate DC games. MC Double Def DP will beat your ass.

He's the Captain Planet of the internet.

[rift]

Really? You thought there needed to be MORE said about the most praised/overrated console of all time?

I'd take a Saturn over a hundred dreamcasts

[Knuckle Duster]

As a heads up for anybody buying the DC new from ebay from 'PNP Games' They're resealed black sports edition consoles that may or may not be able to read CD-R's.

Another thing to note: Almost every DC that hasn't been powered up has a dead battery in them these days, it's not 'a flaw'.

[sega fan]

Really? You thought there needed to be MORE said about the most praised/overrated console of all time?

I'd take a Saturn over a hundred dreamcasts

I got this 17days.

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s190/specv4life/myspacepic.jpg

[kool kitty89]

hUCyvw4w_yk

Everyone, be careful when you pirate DC games. MC Double Def DP will beat your ass.

He's the Captain Planet of the internet.

I liked how they put most emphesis on piracy of new games/movies/music, and selling them in particular. Not any mention of casual piracy at all really. (which is what the original don't copy that floppy was mainly about -somethign that some teachers were known to promote -based on the comments of a few members on here and AtariAge, in EU/UK with 8-bit casette games at least :p)

The only time piracy is harmful to the copyright holders is when it actually prevents sales of the new games on the market. This does apply to certain retro games, but not all (many are only available used). In the case of someone only considdering used or "downloaded," it really doesn't matter anyway, except if gotten used, it can effect the market value and might have some impact on demand of the new compilations/re-releases.


I'd be interested in a DC, but I don't know of any truely exclusive titles that I'm interested in, maybe shenmue, but I can't think of much else, and even that's kind of iffy. (I'd probably like it, but it's really engrossing and time consuming) I'm fine with PC emulators, and I've goth both SA games for GameCube, plus a few of the PC ports in the original PC form. (like MDK 2 and Episode 1 racer -albeit the latter doesn't run on my vista machine, but I have it for N64 too)

That and I almost never see DC stuff in local thrift stores. (I see saturn stuff more often, mainly games, and N64, SNES, Genesis, NES, and PX stuff more often)

[mick_aka]

I got this 17days.

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s190/specv4life/myspacepic.jpg

Please, have some gum...

http://gulligbulle.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/ass_kisser_gum_front1.jpg

[Rusty Venture]

http://i674.photobucket.com/albums/vv103/Push_Upstairs_photo/VW-OhSnap.gif

[sega fan]

OMG I'm an engineer!

http://www.sega-16.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=29&pictureid=864


Please, have some gum...

http://gulligbulle.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/ass_kisser_gum_front1.jpg

http://www.sega-16.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=29&pictureid=863

[Devil N]

What if I already have a Dreamcast along with 22 games and a shitload of downloaded discs? Do I get a pat on the shoulder?

[gamevet]

The only game I have a want to burn is Propeller Arena.

I pretty much have a legit copy (@75 titles) of every game I want on the system.

[Zork]

I saw a Dreamcast yesterday in a Thrift Store. I had such a hard time not buying it... Someday...

[Baloo]

Really? You thought there needed to be MORE said about the most praised/overrated console of all time?

I'd take a Saturn over a hundred dreamcasts

This x100

[Iron Lizard]

I like both Dreamcast and Saturn. Do I get a cookie from both sides?

[streetsofrage]

how do u play emulators on a dreamcast off a disc? theres not harddrive right?

[Iron Lizard]

Insert disc ,turn on system. Seriously though sometimes you have to combine the roms and emulator itself on a disc but there are many torrents out there that are ready to go with everything already on them.

[Rusty Venture]

What if I already have a Dreamcast along with 22 games and a shitload of downloaded discs? Do I get a pat on the shoulder?

<pats Devil N on the shoulder>

[17daysolderthannes]

Really? You thought there needed to be MORE said about the most praised/overrated console of all time?

the short answer: yes.



I'd take a Saturn over a hundred dreamcasts

So you can play...uhhh, ummmm, hmmmm, what is worth playing on the Saturn again? nothing? that's right, now I remember.


As a heads up for anybody buying the DC new from ebay from 'PNP Games' They're resealed black sports edition consoles that may or may not be able to read CD-R's.



What do you mean when you say "may or may not"? Have you come across a Sega Sports DC that can't read CD-Rs? I'll be pissed if I get that black DC in and it can't read CD-Rs since I was expecting the Sega Sports had already run its course by the time Mil-CD functionality was removed.

One site I looked at actually insisted only weird special edition DCs like the Hello Kitty one couldn't read CD-Rs, but I've never had any substantial confirmation of that.


What if I already have a Dreamcast along with 22 games and a shitload of downloaded discs? Do I get a pat on the shoulder?

stay the course, red six, stay the course.

http://biobreak.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/pic-10.jpg


how do u play emulators on a dreamcast off a disc? theres not harddrive right?

all of the ROMs and the emulator are on the disc and it just boots right into the emulator. It's actually kind of nice because you don't have to worry about corrupting files like you might with a PC or modded XBOX or something. If it stops working, just burn another disc, done.

if you want to know where to get them, you'll need a DC ISO and then you'll need to be in the ZONE while using your .COMputer and use the force or something. You can get some COOL ROMS on your .COMputer if you want some commercial games at super fast download speeds.


Insert disc ,turn on system. Seriously though sometimes you have to combine the roms and emulator itself on a disc but there are many torrents out there that are ready to go with everything already on them.

You can make custom discs with Self Boot Inducer, but it's not necessary and I'd recommend going with a pre-made disc since they tend to take care to include complete ROM sets with game genie codes, etc. and then you don't have to do all of that hullabaloo to get it to work.

[Knuckle Duster]

What do you mean when you say "may or may not"? Have you come across a Sega Sports DC that can't read CD-Rs? I'll be pissed if I get that black DC in and it can't read CD-Rs since I was expecting the Sega Sports had already run its course by the time Mil-CD functionality was removed.

My first Sega Sports DC couldn't read my backup collection or emulator discs that ran on my other 2 white DC's.

I assume it was the newer model because of that, unless there was a fluke problem with the laser, but it played all originals flawlessly. It was a 'newer manufacturing date'. Don't remember exactly, I gave it away years ago.

The second one I got from ebay plays backups fine.

[gamevet]

So you can play...uhhh, ummmm, hmmmm, what is worth playing on the Saturn again? nothing? that's right, now I remember.



There was a time when the DC was my favorite console, but that time has passed a long time ago. The Saturn is easily in my top 3 of all time, while the DC is just clawing to hold on to number 5. The Saturn software lineup just absolutely crushes what the DC had to offer, and unique games like PSO just don't hold up over the test of time.

[Knuckle Duster]

Saturn is a sandbox of overpriced, mediocre software.

[jerry coeurl]

If you aren't an uptight square that's too proud to pirate, for a mere $20 you can gain access to some of the best damn games ever made.

I'm not gonna come at you with some 'holier-than-thou' stuff as I pirated plenty of DC games back in my heyday, but this is kind of obviously flamebait. The DC is a bargain regardless of whether or not you're an "uptight square." It's got a very impressive US library considering how long it was commercially available here, and many of the best games will only run you a couple bucks. Highly recommended.

The Saturn is a great system too, but admittedly most of the best games are gonna set you back a bit. The DC is a great alternative for the budget-conscious gamer. Imo.

[Metal_Sonic]

Didn't TheEdge already make this topic?


So you can play...uhhh, ummmm, hmmmm, what is worth playing on the Saturn again? nothing? that's right, now I remember.

LET THE LIST WARS BEGIN!

[sega fan]

LET THE LIST WARS BEGIN!

Yep, Metal Sonic, we better put on our raincoats and prepare for another Sega-16 shit storm.

...Because nobody can be right on the internet and have their own opinion.

[InternalPrimate]

Yep, Metal Sonic, we better put on our raincoats and prepare for another Sega-16 shit storm.

...Because nobody can be right on the internet and have their own opinion.

Come on now Sega Fan, this isn't a matter of just another innocent posting of opinions, this entire argument has already gone down in one of this sites most infamous threads. (http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6949)

This is just another example of 17days trying to gain attention. Nobody has disagreed with him in a while? LETS HAVE AN ORGY OF ROMZ AND PUSH THE LIMITS OF WHAT'S ALLOWED TO BE POSTED HERE!!!

It's just so tired. So much so, that I'm afraid I'm going to have to...

MUNN THIS THREAD!
http://www.olivia-munn.info/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/olivia-munn-all-dressed-up.jpg

[17daysolderthannes]

My first Sega Sports DC couldn't read my backup collection or emulator discs that ran on my other 2 white DC's.



Well buttfuck, I hope the one I just bought is backup compatible. Are the drives interchangeable between revisions of DC? At least I could swap it with the white one I have now and then just have a spare drive. That or I could keep it around as my "official game only" system. I guess it would be something of a collector item if it couldn't play backups since they seem to be somewhat rare (never came across one personally).


There was a time when the DC was my favorite console, but that time has passed a long time ago. The Saturn is easily in my top 3 of all time, while the DC is just clawing to hold on to number 5. The Saturn software lineup just absolutely crushes what the DC had to offer, and unique games like PSO just don't hold up over the test of time.

PSO? apparently the difference in system preference is due to a different taste in games. Currently, Jedi Power Battles is rockin my world, SOOO much fun to pwn droids with their own laser blast via lightsaber reflect.


I'm not gonna come at you with some 'holier-than-thou' stuff as I pirated plenty of DC games back in my heyday, but this is kind of obviously flamebait. The DC is a bargain regardless of whether or not you're an "uptight square." It's got a very impressive US library considering how long it was commercially available here, and many of the best games will only run you a couple bucks. Highly recommended.


Contrary to popular belief, not everything I say is meant to be taken as a slap in the face. "uptight square" isn't the most offensive statement you could possibly make, some might even find it "humorous" if you can believe that. Has it occurred to anyone that if I really hated everyone here that much I would stop posting?

I dunno, IMO, once it's been 10 years, I think ROMs/ISOs are fair game. If you want to just buy a couple games from PSN or Wii VC to save the trouble of learning emulation/bootlegging, that's understandable, but I don't recognize any sufficient moral objection to exceedingly old games that aren't currently being produced nor bringing profits to the responsible developers. You could argue that the low price of DC games is due to the easy piracy versus the Saturn that is nearly impossible to pirate for (even with a modchip the games often don't burn/play right) and has no solid emulators yet (SSF is supposed to be good, but I can't get it to run, I keep getting some sort of audio error).


Come on now Sega Fan, this isn't a matter of just another innocent posting of opinions, this entire argument has already gone down in one of this sites most infamous threads. (http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6949)

This is just another example of 17days trying to gain attention. Nobody has disagreed with him in a while? LETS HAVE AN ORGY OF ROMZ AND PUSH THE LIMITS OF WHAT'S ALLOWED TO BE POSTED HERE!!!

It's just so tired.

actually, no. IIRC, I didn't even mention the Saturn until it came up later in the thread, which is totally irrelevant as the Saturn costs at least twice as much for the hardware and astronomical amounts of money for games. The modchip for a Saturn is more than a complete ready-to-go Dreamcast.

I think it's kind of disrespectful to try to run off anyone talking about playing ROMs or ISOs as long as we aren't endangering the forum via direct linking to ROMs (I know I skirted on that a few posts up, but mentioning a site that happens to be OK with ROM linking should be acceptable, but it's not like we're catering to ROM beggars or anything). While some people want to be hardware elitists and only play original hardware with official copies, some people just want to experience the games any way they can. We can't all honestly afford shelling out $100 for Rockman Mega World just to try it out. Not only that, but I'm sure many of us see value in archiving the real hardware and games and play backups/ROMs instead. I'll be moving to NYC soon and I won't have space for my 650+ games, so I have been rigging up ROMs and emulators so I don't have to go without. If someone wants to pirate Mirror's Edge or Skate 2, they can go f themselves because those games are still very prominently sold and their sales will directly help influence sequels as well as reimburse developers for their hard work. On the same token, I don't think anyone should have to pay CaptainDippidyDoo23 $150 for Snatcher when Konami forgot they made the game 15 years ago. Bottom line: leave the pirates alone and we won't shit on you for spending way too much for "rare" games.

[sega fan]

Come on now Sega Fan, this isn't a matter of just another innocent posting of opinions, this entire argument has already gone down in one of this sites most infamous threads. (http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6949)

This is just another example of 17days trying to gain attention. Nobody has disagreed with him in a while? LETS HAVE AN ORGY OF ROMZ AND PUSH THE LIMITS OF WHAT'S ALLOWED TO BE POSTED HERE!!!

It's just so tired.

I can't agree more.

[Metal_Sonic]

...Because nobody can be right on the internet and have their own opinion.

Can you point to the part of my post where I said that?

[sega fan]

Can you point to the part of my post where I said that?

No I'm sorry. That was a personal statement from me, not you.

[Metal_Sonic]

No I'm sorry. That was a personal statement from me, not you.

And this statement was made because?.....

[sega fan]

And this statement was made because?.....

Thinking aloud about how stupid arguing on the internet can be.

[Metal_Sonic]

BUT IF WE DON'T PROVE THEM WRONG WHO WILL SEGA FAN? WHO WILL?!

[sega fan]

BUT IF WE DON'T PROVE THEM WRONG WHO WILL SEGA FAN? WHO WILL?!

Tis' the age old question.

[jerry coeurl]

Contrary to popular belief, not everything I say is meant to be taken as a slap in the face. "uptight square" isn't the most offensive statement you could possibly make, some might even find it "humorous" if you can believe that. Has it occurred to anyone that if I really hated everyone here that much I would stop posting?

Fair enough, it's just with your history of inflammatory comments, I could see people taking it that way. I agree with your stance on gaming piracy for the most part, even though I personally prefer to own the original soft/hardware.

[17daysolderthannes]

Fair enough, it's just with your history of inflammatory comments, I could see people taking it that way. I agree with your stance on gaming piracy for the most part, even though I personally prefer to own the original soft/hardware.

Most of my "inflammatory" comments are taken to the absolute ridiculous extreme when they're meant to be taken more lightly. Sometimes I do really just get all out annoyed when people misread my posts, put words in my mouth, or just say plain stupid shit, but for the most part I'm making tongue-in-cheek statements.

I think we would all prefer to own the real games, but economics are bound to come into play at some point. On that note, we would all like a solid gold toilet seat, a butler, a private jet, a fleet of supercars, and a girlfriend that can deep throat and put her legs behind her head, but at the end of the day, you can't have everything. Piracy of old games lets people get a good understanding of the history of games to re-discover old concepts as well as introduce them to new genres. All I can really say is that if people want to expand their boundaries and tour the world of retro games, I think it should be OK to help them along when money is the limiting factor even if our overzealous copyright laws might not bless such behavior (and, just in case you were wondering, no video game will be legal to bootleg within our lifetimes, so might as well start now).

[M4R14NO94]

It's just so tired. So much so, that I'm afraid I'm going to have to...

MUNN THIS THREAD!
http://www.olivia-munn.info/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/olivia-munn-all-dressed-up.jpg

FUCK YEAH!

http://thesuperficial.com//bfm_gallery/2009/11/1122%20Olivia%20Munn/gallery_enlarged/gallery_enlarged-1122_olivia_munn_vote_01.jpg

[MrMatthews]

I like this thread because it reminds me of another thread which solidified the relationships between TheEdge, InternalPrimate, 17days, Knuckle Duster, and myself. Just thinking about all those glorious Dreamcast game compilations reminds me of why we're all BFF!!!.

*pours out some beer in rememberence of Edge*

Edit: Oh, and is no one going to say it? You're all leaving it up to me, really?

Fine.

Olivia Munn is a hoo-er!

[InternalPrimate]

If I could slap you, I would.

[Puffy2k316]

Pirating Dreamcast games to me might be illegal but it's not unethical. And if it's not unethical and I won't get punished for doing it then I don't even think twice about it.

edit: ive got a black DC that reads copies fine

[Da_Shocker]

TheEdge needs to be unbanned ASAP! I like my Saturn over my DC but I have yet to fully utilize my DC.

[MrMatthews]

If I could slap you, I would.

Yes, I sensed you would take it the hardest, old friend.

But answer me this: would you still be so infatuated with her if she posed for every picture in an evening gown or a sensible pantsuit?

[QuickSciFi]

I agree that the Dreamcast is a great bargain. You don't even have to consider burning games, though. Even today, it is about the most under-rated system of all time. I'm just glad Sega went out with a BANG!

[InternalPrimate]

Yes, I sensed you would take it the hardest, old friend.

But answer me this: would you still be so infatuated with her if she posed for every picture in an evening gown or a sensible pantsuit?

Your hypothetical questions are like gibberish!

[Rusty Venture]

But answer me this: would you still be so infatuated with her if she posed for every picture in an evening gown or a sensible pantsuit?

I think I have to ask the question IP would have asked if he wasn't full of Hulk-rage.

Is she panty-less or thong clad in her various modest ensembles?

[old man]

Olivia Munn is a hoo-er!

:D

You seem to think this lessens the appeal.

[gamevet]

PSO? apparently the difference in system preference is due to a different taste in games. Currently, Jedi Power Battles is rockin my world, SOOO much fun to pwn droids with their own laser blast via lightsaber reflect.



Apparently so. I've never thought of Jedi Power Battles as more than a mediocre game with the Star Wars license. If it was called Saber battles and had generic characters it would be considered a monotonous piece of software.

The DC was about online gaming for me. PSO, Alien Front Online, Daytona, NFL2K1 and Unreal were my games of choice. Sure, I had a great time with Soul Calibur, Air Force Delta and Marvel vs. Capcom 2, but they weren't the games I'd bought the system for.

[mrbigreddog]

I got 2 dreamcast and an ass-load of games! Just got my HDTV, VGA Adapter is on the way!!! My only issue with the dreamcast is the CD speed. Which there was a "easy" way to overclock or change out the cd-rom for a faster one!

[MrMatthews]

:D

You seem to think this lessens the appeal.


For me, it does. I don't have a lot of respect for someone who has chosen to make a career out of pandering to the sexual fantasies of video game/comic book/sci-fi fans.

I've got internet porn for that, Olivia; thanks.

[17daysolderthannes]

Apparently so. I've never thought of Jedi Power Battles as more than a mediocre game with the Star Wars license. If it was called Saber battles and had generic characters it would be considered a monotonous piece of software.

The DC was about online gaming for me. PSO, Alien Front Online, Daytona, NFL2K1 and Unreal were my games of choice. Sure, I had a great time with Soul Calibur, Air Force Delta and Marvel vs. Capcom 2, but they weren't the games I'd bought the system for.

well, upon playing it some more, Jedi Power Battles seems to be alot of the same and gets repetitive (and aggravating when you miss a jump and fall in a hole and get taken back halfway across the level).

Online play was probably pretty sweet, but I didn't get a DC until long after that was gone. Some company should start making broadband adapters and someone should host some servers again, that would be awesome. I need to check out the DC version of Unreal Tournament too, I used to love playing that on the computer BITD.

[Knuckle Duster]

Some company should start making broadband adapters and someone should host some servers again, that would be awesome. I need to check out the DC version of Unreal Tournament too, I used to love playing that on the computer BITD.

I would sooner support the idea of someone creating a platform that can bridge dialup to a served and centralized network.

Compatible PC Modems are hit or miss on the bridging, but they're cheaper than dirt & the real problems lie in software configuration.

[Rusty Venture]

For me, it does. I don't have a lot of respect for someone who has chosen to make a career out of pandering to the sexual fantasies of video game/comic book/sci-fi fans.

She is alright looking. She isn't at the top of my list of women, but shes better looking than some of the women guys seem to fawn over on the internet.

That being said, her catering/pandering to nerds strikes me as both playful and tongue in cheek. If she is having fun camping it up and felling like a sex symbol, who cares?


I've got internet porn for that, Olivia; thanks.

Now the real issue arises. MrMatthrews is a fan of triple penetration, and softcore non-nudes just don't do anything for him.

[MrMatthews]

Now the real issue arises. MrMatthrews is a fan of triple penetration, and softcore non-nudes just don't do anything for him.

Rusty is taking a shot at me (it's Matthews, by the way - no "r"), but he's right. Years of pornography have dulled my imagination to a point where if I don't actually see a chick in a sexual situation, I don't think of her that way.

My nerdy friends were always trying to make defintive lists of their all-time hottest celebrities. They were picking actresses like Natalie Portman and Famke Jansen; all I could think of were porn starlets.

*weeps silently*

[Rusty Venture]

The "r" was just an extra dash of indignity. ;)

[sega fan]

I was digging through a bunch of my old recorded video cassettes from the past 5 years and I stumbled upon a "Munn Goldmine" that I thought was lost. I thought this particular tape was disposed of before we left England.

wBmOjANinYg

[OldSchool]

I was digging through a bunch of my old recorded video cassettes from the past 5 years and I stumbled upon a "Munn Goldmine" that I thought was lost. I thought this particular tape was disposed of before we left England.

wBmOjANinYg

That was awesome! 00:47 owned:!:

[sega fan]

I can't beleive I still had the tape. I found it and recorded it with a digital camera yesterday.

[Da_Shocker]

http://www.blog.inspiretech.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/olivia-munn-jiggle-02.gif

[Rusty Venture]

I see in the video there is one of those red snakes that looks like the really deadly one.

"Red on yellow, kill a fellow; red on black, friend of Jack"

[JackieBogard]

I have a dreamcast with about 60 games. and I love it (right next to my genesis) but I won't lie, it is overrated and praised to high heaven a bit to much.

[Rusty Venture]

I have a *MASSIVE* 4 games for DC.

The only reason I keep it is because "Power Stone 2" is totally jawusum.

[MrMatthews]

I hardly ever play my DC, but I keep buying games for it because . . . well, I keep finding them. I have 14 games so far, and I've only played two or three.

[17daysolderthannes]

I have a dreamcast with about 60 games. and I love it (right next to my genesis) but I won't lie, it is overrated and praised to high heaven a bit to much.

I think it's praised the same way the Genesis is praised: it was waaaay too overlooked in its heyday and it deserves some god damn respect. I mean, look at an N64 or PSX game from 99-01 and compare it to the DC, there is no comparison. Anything that came out across all 3 platforms was light years better on the DC. Tony Hawk 2 is still my favorite iteration of the game, and guess which system had the best version? exactly.

More importantly, it's just the value of the damn thing. If you're not against burning games, it just takes $20 to do anything you could possibly want to do with it (ok, maybe $30-$40 if you want 4 controllers and a smattering of VMUs), there isn't another system out there that offers so much for so little. Not only are the regular DC games great, but a large chunk of the Neo CD and MVS/AES games are available thanks to Neo4All along side some great NES and SMS/GG emulators and even some of the older MAME games will play on it. If you don't have a computer in a cable's distance of your TV, the DC is by far the easiest way to do all of this. In some ways, I even like it better than a modded XBOX because you can't brick it by accidentally deleting system files when trying to clean up your hard disk nor do you have to add ROMs to discs yourself. People simply upload pre-made discs with all ROMs worth playing and you can just download that after the dirty work has been done.

So, it's not really that people are claiming the Dreamcast is the end-all beat-all system, but damn if it isn't the best bang for the buck when all capabilities are considered.

[Da_Shocker]

yep yep http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9463

[17daysolderthannes]

while we're discussing the Dreamcast, is there a way to procure VMU saves and burn them via diskjuggler to transfer them to a VMU? I ask this because I got a copy of Segagaga and there's no way I'll ever get through the RPG portion in Japanese, but I want to play the shooter part. I figure if I get a save, I'll be able to play the awesome level featuring all of Sega's consoles as bosses.

Help me Christuserloeser-Wan Kenobi, you're our only hope.

[Puffy2k316]

There's a version on Marvel vs. Capcom 2 out there that someone made that you can burn and it transfers the 100% save file to your memory card when you put it into your dreamcast so it can definitely be done. I've never seen it for anything outside of MvC 2 though.

[17daysolderthannes]

There's a version on Marvel vs. Capcom 2 out there that someone made that you can burn and it transfers the 100% save file to your memory card when you put it into your dreamcast so it can definitely be done. I've never seen it for anything outside of MvC 2 though.

Are you refering to the Toodles Capcom Fighter disc? Yeah, that's how I knew it was possible. I'm downloading Dream Explorer and it's supposed to be like a VMU mega tool, it can even unlock an extra 44 blocks!

check it out:

http://dcisozone.com/downloads/678/Dream-Explorer.html

BTW, this is a homebrew app, there are no copyrights being violated by downloading the file.


I have another question too, though: can anyone recommend a 2X/4X/8X/etc. VMU for Dreamcast? I have 4 normal VMUs right now, so I'd just like a larger VMU minus the screen that I could pile saves on for games I'm not necessarily playing at the moment. Then again, if VMU Tool holds it down like I'm hoping, I may not need a save on most games because I can just use the level select to pick up where I left off.

[Puffy2k316]

So that's a computer program that lets you mess around with your VMU? Am I understanding that correctly? How do you connect the VMU to your computer?

[17daysolderthannes]

So that's a computer program that lets you mess around with your VMU? Am I understanding that correctly? How do you connect the VMU to your computer?

no, it's a .cdi you burn with discjuggler and use on your Dreamcast. (as I understand it) You simply plug in a VMU to your controller and turn on the DC with the disc inside, then you select a VMU save and it loads it to the VMU. I just hope that Segagaga save is on there...and I can figure out how the fuck to get to that shooter part of the level (DAMN YOU JAPANESE CHARACTERS!!!!)

[kool kitty89]

I think it's praised the same way the Genesis is praised: it was waaaay too overlooked in its heyday and it deserves some god damn respect. I mean, look at an N64 or PSX game from 99-01 and compare it to the DC, there is no comparison. Anything that came out across all 3 platforms was light years better on the DC. Tony Hawk 2 is still my favorite iteration of the game, and guess which system had the best version? exactly.

Well duh the DV versions were better than N64 or PSX, the tech was almost half a decade newer. ;)
That said, Episode 1 Racer wasn't THAT much better on DC, that's a PC port of course, of aalready upgraded version. However, the actual P version supported higher resolution as well. (I was playing it in 1024x768 with smooth framerate around 01/02)

Anyway, the Genesis wasn't overlooked in its heyday, at least not outside of Japan, it had a HUGE market share through the generation, and was lead in most regions for much of it as well.

[17daysolderthannes]

HOOOLY SHIT!

Wanna play the awesome shooter section of Segagaga? I FIGURED IT OUT!!!

hmEr5n3mSfk

What you'll need:

homebrew capable DC (manufactured ?on? or before October 2000)
working VMU (OK if batteries are dead)
computer with some version of Windows
CD burner
Padus Diskjuggler (trial version is fine, google it)
Dream Explorer: http://dcisozone.com/downloads/678/Dream-Explorer.html

and lastly: a copy of Segagaga (the website featuring Dream Explorer may have what you're looking for ;) , just make sure to get the .cdi version)


How to do it:

Burn Dream Explorer by downloading/unrar-ing it and double clicking the .cdi file. Diskjuggler should open automatically (if not, install it dummy). Insert a disk, wait for Diskjuggler to recognize it, then click burn.

Plug in a VMU with at least 15 blocks of free memory into your DC controller and put Dream Explorer into your DC. Follow the fairly self-explanatory OS and copy the Segagaga file that says "all mini-games completed" or something to that effect. I just went into the first folder (Blue Swirl I believe) in the VMU section and they had it.

After you successfully copied the save and checked to make sure it's there in the Dreamcast Bios, insert Segagaga and boot it up.

I don't know how to boot it with a real version of Segagaga as I did it via CD-R backup, but with the CD-R it should just boot right up.

Hit start until you get to the main menu (right after the title screen). Scroll down to the last option on the main menu and hit "A". This will bring you to a memory card screen. There should only be one save, mine says "GO!" and then has some japanese gibberish after it, hit "A" twice.

Now you are at the mini-game menu.

DTTT is a puzzle game where you kick Dreamcast boxes to load them on the truck. It's pretty fun to be honest. If you mess up, hit "Y" and hit "A" on the first option and hit left and hit "A" again to reset the level. The second option in the "Y" menu will bring you back to the title screen.

GKKK is a button mashing game where you clean Sega arcades by using the d-pad to move in front of them and then wipe them clean with "A" and "B". It's probably the weakest of the mini-games, but also probably the funniest that they included it.

Now the game you've been waiting for...

"R-720 with S" is the horizontal space shooter featuring all of your favorite Sega systems as bosses. Amazingly, all of the menus in this game are in English, so you should have no problem figuring everything out. The only non-self explanatory part is the normal game vs. special stage. From what I can tell, the normal game is mostly a boss-rush of the Sega systems whereas the special stage seems to be a more drawn out game with longer levels between bosses. Either way, it's fucking jawsum.

Any additional questions, let me know and I'll add it to this post.

edit: I think I'm gonna make a new thread for this, so post any responses to this post in the Segagaga Shooter thread.

[kool kitty89]

Oh crap, I didn't realize that was from a real game... I remember seeing a clip of that in that complation of videos on some topic about a fake project a while back. (I wish I could remember what thread that was)
I think I asked if that was a real game, but no one responded. That is totally awesome.

[TheRollingStoner]

Oh crap, I didn't realize that was from a real game... I remember seeing a clip of that in that complation of videos on some topic about a fake project a while back. (I wish I could remember what thread that was)
I think I asked if that was a real game, but no one responded. That is totally awesome.
I could be wrong, but I believe it was this thread: http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9138

[17daysolderthannes]

so the next new hotness for the DC: Unreal Tournament

SOOOO MUCH FUN!

I haven't enjoyed a deathmatch FPS this much in years. The AI does an awesome job of imitating human players. That's right Halo, THEY PUT BOTS IN THIS GAME, still haven't seen you do it, Halo. I would love to play this port with 4 players or online, that must've been so sweet back in the day. Perhaps the most impressive part of this game is the spot on look controls even though they're mapped to digital buttons. Modern game designers could learn from this.

[Knuckle Duster]

so the next new hotness for the DC: Unreal Tournament

SOOOO MUCH FUN!

I haven't enjoyed a deathmatch FPS this much in years. The AI does an awesome job of imitating human players. That's right Halo, THEY PUT BOTS IN THIS GAME, still haven't seen you do it, Halo. I would love to play this port with 4 players or online, that must've been so sweet back in the day. Perhaps the most impressive part of this game is the spot on look controls even though they're mapped to digital buttons. Modern game designers could learn from this.

Halo? If you want the 'better' game on Xbox, pick up Unreal Championship 2.

Don't compare apples to oranges. Halo's a sci-fi shooter with a robust multiplayer mode. Unreal's a twitch based frag race with minimal play modes.

If you're worried about bots challenging you like real people in Halo, play the single player game on Legendary. It's not too difficult & the AI is good.

[17daysolderthannes]

Halo? If you want the 'better' game on Xbox, pick up Unreal Championship 2.

Don't compare apples to oranges. Halo's a sci-fi shooter with a robust multiplayer mode. Unreal's a twitch based frag race with minimal play modes.

If you're worried about bots challenging you like real people in Halo, play the single player game on Legendary. It's not too difficult & the AI is good.

Well, it's really more of a dig at how lame (in my opinion) it is that the "mighty" XBOX and XBOX 360 flagship shooter can't handle what the N64 did with Perfect Dark (quite well I might add). I definitely prefer the original UT to UT 2004 that I used to play a few years back. The vehicles in UT 2004 were cool, but it just became too much of a clusterfuck. UT is pure FPS mayhem at its best. If you have a DC, 4 controllers, and 3 friends, UT is your ticket to a fun evening.

[Englaze]

My brother purchased me a Dreamcast when I was, oh, 7 or so, right after launch day. I played Jet Grind Radio, Sonic Adventure, etc.

I had pretty fond memories of it as a kid, and I still do, so awhile ago I started buying some more games for it...

And now, in retrospect, I don't get the big deal here, and I don't really wish I had spent my money on those DC games. Okay, I could play a few games online- most of which were better on the Gamecube or Xbox. There were also some exclusives that were pretty cool, like Soul Calibur which is easily one of the best games I've ever played, and a few others.

But, besides its original meager online offering (which was hard to set up and quickly outdone by the other 3 consoles), and it's very, very few worthwhile exclusives, the Dreamcast was not that great.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's a bad console. Like I said, I have some really fond memories of it, and games like Soul Calibur still hold up to the test of time- Hell, I'm still playing Phantasy Star Online on my Gamecube to this day, which was a DC game originally.

However, the console was not great, nor is it brag worthy. The only reason anyone even acknowledges its existence is because it was the first "true" online console (not including things like Sega Channel), and because of the culture surrounding it. The whole "9" obsession, the look, the commercials, the funkiness of the games, everything was pretty memorable, and it was Sega's last hurrah- THAT is why people remember it, not because it was actually a great console.

People say, "Oh shut up, it had tons of great games! Shenmue, and Headhunter, and Skies of Arcadia, and PSO, and Rez, and Spacechannel 5, and Ikaruga!".

Okay, yeah, it had some alright games- 90% of which were later ported to the Gamecube, with better graphics and controls. Not to mention the fact that most people don't want to sit around playing arcade shooters and fighting games.

The fact is, the Dreamcast is a COOL console, not a GREAT console. It's look, its feel, the nostalgia it brings, its funky attitude...It makes it a cool console, and that's why people remember it. But in every other way- it was outclassed, even for its time. All of its few best games were given better ports soon after release, its online lasted for practically a microsecond, its hardware was trash compared to the GC and Xbox, and its controller was burdensome.

So, no, a Dreamcast is not a good investment.

[17daysolderthannes]

My brother purchased me a Dreamcast when I was, oh, 7 or so, right after launch day. I played Jet Grind Radio, Sonic Adventure, etc.

I had pretty fond memories of it as a kid, and I still do, so awhile ago I started buying some more games for it...

And now, in retrospect, I don't get the big deal here, and I don't really wish I had spent my money on those DC games. Okay, I could play a few games online- most of which were better on the Gamecube or Xbox. There were also some exclusives that were pretty cool, like Soul Calibur which is easily one of the best games I've ever played, and a few others.

But, besides its original meager online offering (which was hard to set up and quickly outdone by the other 3 consoles), and it's very, very few worthwhile exclusives, the Dreamcast was not that great.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's a bad console. Like I said, I have some really fond memories of it, and games like Soul Calibur still hold up to the test of time- Hell, I'm still playing Phantasy Star Online on my Gamecube to this day, which was a DC game originally.

However, the console was not great, nor is it brag worthy. The only reason anyone even acknowledges its existence is because it was the first "true" online console (not including things like Sega Channel), and because of the culture surrounding it. The whole "9" obsession, the look, the commercials, the funkiness of the games, everything was pretty memorable, and it was Sega's last hurrah- THAT is why people remember it, not because it was actually a great console.

People say, "Oh shut up, it had tons of great games! Shenmue, and Headhunter, and Skies of Arcadia, and PSO, and Rez, and Spacechannel 5, and Ikaruga!".

Okay, yeah, it had some alright games- 90% of which were later ported to the Gamecube, with better graphics and controls. Not to mention the fact that most people don't want to sit around playing arcade shooters and fighting games.

The fact is, the Dreamcast is a COOL console, not a GREAT console. It's look, its feel, the nostalgia it brings, its funky attitude...It makes it a cool console, and that's why people remember it. But in every other way- it was outclassed, even for its time. All of its few best games were given better ports soon after release, its online lasted for practically a microsecond, its hardware was trash compared to the GC and Xbox, and its controller was burdensome.

So, no, a Dreamcast is not a good investment.

well, right off the bat you obviously don't have taste for the best games on the system. Almost everything was pick-up-and-play arcade style stuff, and that's what I like. I like the Dreamcast because it has several games that were cross-platform across the PSX, N64, and DC and the DC smokes the rest of them. Tony Hawk 2 is the best Tony Hawk, and the DC has the best version. The controller isn't an issue for me because I have a Total Control Plus and can just use my Logitech Precision Wireless PS2 controller. If not that, the Madcatz Dream Pad is badass and very comfortable.

Regardless, my emphasis was how cheap it was to amass a large library of fun games since it's insanely easy to bootleg games on the system. If you refuse to ever play a burned game, then this whole thread is meaningless to you. Try putting a CD-R in your GC and booting it up...yeah. Furthermore, GC games seem to maintain their value more than other games, making even legitimate buyers pay several times as much for the same game on the GC versus the DC.

I never liked anything about the Gaycube (yes, I'm calling it that, it fucking blows) so I would still rather play the "inferior" Dreamcast version of the games. The XBOX never impressed me either as I can't think of any exclusive that really blew me away nor did I prefer the XBOX version of a cross platform game because the control always felt sloppy somehow (NFS: Hot Pursuit 2 on XBOX vs. PS2 was downright shitty to control on XBOX and great on PS2). On the other hand, I find many DC games have the control down to a science.

The Dreamcast was like a Wii that didn't suck, not a nerdy processor benchmark machine with 1 popular game (Halo+XBOX) or an overly kiddy machine with nothing but outdated ports (Gamecube). I mean, the DC was dead by the time all the other systems were really up and running, so how can you compare graphics from a PS2/GC/XBOX game from 2005 to a DC game from 5 years earlier? And what about the price? DC was $200 on launch day, even then it was a huge bargain!

Sometimes the ports weren't even better. I have Soldier of Fortune Gold for PS2 and the control is awful, but regular Soldier of Fortune on DC played with the same controller thanks to Total Control Plus controls infinitely better. I also have Ferrari F355 Challenge for PS2 and it's virtually unplayable even with the Logitech steering wheel (the force feedback one). I rock at the arcade version, but the PS2 version falls flat. On the other hand, I've heard the DC version is fantastic to play (though I haven't played it since every .cdi I find either crashes discjuggler or doesn't work after burning, if someone can help me out with that via PM, I'd appreciate it). Also, Sonic Adventure beats the pants off of later Sonic games released on GC/XBOX/PS2. Sonic Heroes can DIAF.

DC is badass when looked at from a retro perspective.

[Knuckle Duster]

My brother purchased me a Dreamcast when I was, oh, 7 or so, right after launch day. I played Jet Grind Radio, Sonic Adventure, etc.

I had pretty fond memories of it as a kid, and I still do, so awhile ago I started buying some more games for it...

And now, in retrospect, I don't get the big deal here, and I don't really wish I had spent my money on those DC games. Okay, I could play a few games online- most of which were better on the Gamecube or Xbox. There were also some exclusives that were pretty cool, like Soul Calibur which is easily one of the best games I've ever played, and a few others.

But, besides its original meager online offering (which was hard to set up and quickly outdone by the other 3 consoles), and it's very, very few worthwhile exclusives, the Dreamcast was not that great.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's a bad console. Like I said, I have some really fond memories of it, and games like Soul Calibur still hold up to the test of time- Hell, I'm still playing Phantasy Star Online on my Gamecube to this day, which was a DC game originally.

However, the console was not great, nor is it brag worthy. The only reason anyone even acknowledges its existence is because it was the first "true" online console (not including things like Sega Channel), and because of the culture surrounding it. The whole "9" obsession, the look, the commercials, the funkiness of the games, everything was pretty memorable, and it was Sega's last hurrah- THAT is why people remember it, not because it was actually a great console.

People say, "Oh shut up, it had tons of great games! Shenmue, and Headhunter, and Skies of Arcadia, and PSO, and Rez, and Spacechannel 5, and Ikaruga!".

Okay, yeah, it had some alright games- 90% of which were later ported to the Gamecube, with better graphics and controls. Not to mention the fact that most people don't want to sit around playing arcade shooters and fighting games.

The fact is, the Dreamcast is a COOL console, not a GREAT console. It's look, its feel, the nostalgia it brings, its funky attitude...It makes it a cool console, and that's why people remember it. But in every other way- it was outclassed, even for its time. All of its few best games were given better ports soon after release, its online lasted for practically a microsecond, its hardware was trash compared to the GC and Xbox, and its controller was burdensome.

So, no, a Dreamcast is not a good investment.

http://4gifs.com/gallery/d/126838-1/Fulloffuck.jpg?

Hardware was trash?! The controller was burdensome? Have you SEEN the duke? Have you SEEN the mutant GC controller?

The Xbox & Gamecube came out 2 years later, with the DC showing up behind the scenes even earlier, in 1998. Trash?! :rofl:

[Guntz]

The Xbox and Gamecube are miles ahead of the PlayStation controller. Geez is that controller awful. Uncomfortable, stupid ass face buttons, the left stick is in the wrong place, trying to use all four triggers at once is impossible and so much more. The GameCube controller may be a bit of a mess, at least it still heeds to smart and sensible controller standards (ABC XYZ). As for the Xbox, using the Duke is an unfair comparison ESPECIALLY since NOBODY uses the Model 1 Saturn controller to benchmark the system. Just like the Model 2 Saturn pad, the Xbox S controller is the system's main controller. There's no excuse for how bad the PS controller is. It's the evil twin of SNES that has been bastardized into modern controller standards. :shame:

... Oh yeah, Dreamcast is sorta in between. The lack of a second stick really limits the controller's flexibility, but again at least the left stick is in the right place and it has ABXY for face buttons.

[17daysolderthannes]

The Xbox and Gamecube are miles ahead of the PlayStation controller. Geez is that controller awful. Uncomfortable, stupid ass face buttons, the left stick is in the wrong place, trying to use all four triggers at once is impossible and so much more. The GameCube controller may be a bit of a mess, at least it still heeds to smart and sensible controller standards (ABC XYZ). As for the Xbox, using the Duke is an unfair comparison ESPECIALLY since NOBODY uses the Model 1 Saturn controller to benchmark the system. Just like the Model 2 Saturn pad, the Xbox S controller is the system's main controller. There's no excuse for how bad the PS controller is. It's the evil twin of SNES that has been bastardized into modern controller standards. :shame:

... Oh yeah, Dreamcast is sorta in between. The lack of a second stick really limits the controller's flexibility, but again at least the left stick is in the right place and it has ABXY for face buttons.

Hi, it's called 3rd party:

http://www.consolesource.com/ecomm/images/D/logitech-cordless-precision-controller-ps2.jpg

that's the best analog joystick controller on the market, and it's wireless with a 300 hour battery life to boot. You can get adapters for almost any system out there: DC, GC, XBOX, PC, etc.

The buttons have a longer press, fixing the "flat" normal PS2 buttons, the triggers are very easy to press all at once, the joysticks are like butter, the d-pad is an award winning floating pad (second only to the Sega Saturn/Genesis 6-button d-pad), and it only costs $15 for a refurbed one on eBay all day long:

http://cgi.ebay.com/LOGITECH-CORDLESS-PRECISION-GAMEPAD-FOR-PLAYSTATION-2_W0QQitemZ170431306318QQcmdZViewItemQQptZVideo_Ga mes_Accessories?hash=item27ae7f5a4e#ht_2254wt_1165

And for the record, the staggered Joysticks of the XBOX/GC don't make sense. I like to have my thumbs symmetrical when playing a FPS, not one cocked up at the top and one at the bottom. I also like it because I prefer digital control whenever possible, and the PS2 controller wins in that respect (try playing ANYTHING with that shitty Gamecube d-pad, lmfao!). I'm also not a fan of triggers for racing games, I much prefer tilting the second joystick for throttle/brake or just using the face buttons. Shoulder buttons are for shifting.

[Guntz]

I PM'd you about DC emulators in the beginning of this topic. Did you receive it?

[snume]

I really like the Logitech wireless Xbox controller, which I assume has much of the build quality of the Logitech wireless PS2 one you show. And if you don't like shooters, the left analog stick is not your preferred method of control. It is for me. I really wish the DC had had twin sticks though, because I've tried to play a few games on the DC that used the face buttons in place of a right stick (MDK and Carrier come to mind) and I just can't deal with it. I'm not sure if there's a way ti use a PS/PS2 controller and to reconfigure the controls to use 2 sticks, but if there is, I would love to know.

Have you played either of those games, 17days? or would you be willing to try either or both of them with your Total Control and a PS controller?

[Guntz]

I really wish the DC had had twin sticks though, because I've tried to play a few games on the DC that used the face buttons in place of a right stick (MDK and Carrier come to mind) and I just can't deal with it. I'm not sure if there's a way ti use a PS/PS2 controller and to reconfigure the controls to use 2 sticks, but if there is, I would love to know.

I share the same opinion. I cannot play Fur Fighters because they force you to use the face buttons as a control stick, which does not work. Ever. I can just barely play Half-Life (beta) though. I haven't made it very far into the DC port but whenever I play it, it just makes me wish I was using a controller with twin sticks instead. :|

[Elusive]

This thread has a strange premise. 'Save money by buying this console and pirating its games'.


Well, it's really more of a dig at how lame (in my opinion) it is that the "mighty" XBOX and XBOX 360 flagship shooter can't handle what the N64 did with Perfect Dark (quite well I might add).

First off, ODST's Firefight mode is a botmatch. Sorry.

Second, bots are a remnant of an age without the Internet, and where the absolute limitation for multiplayer was four people squinting at a single screen. Fire off more than a few rounds, though, and you'd get a better frame rate by painting images onto bread and toasting them. And possibly at a better resolution than the N64 *rimshot*

but seriously, as Knuckle Duster mentioned, if you're playing against bots you're (uuuurgh here it comes) playing it wrong (aaargh!): bots are no substitute for human beings. You can increase their weapon damage, you can give them sight beyond sight, you can turn them into bullet sponges, but they won't play like people.

There's a MGS Raiden joke in here somewhere, but I'm sounding goony enough by far already. Bottom line is, why would I want to play against AI when I can connect to Xbox Live and immediately jump into a 16-player deathmatch in Halo 3? For games where the online multiplayer has flatlined (uhh, Call of Suity Quantum of Solace) there's always the local multiplayer/System Link option.

[Guntz]

You know, there ARE some of us here that don't have a gaming internet connection. I'm on satellite internet and it's ping is usually in the quadruple numbers (1000 - 3000+). This is not good enough to play even the DS online. So I'm stuck playing FPS games with bots. Personally I don't really care if I'm playing against humans or bots, I still get to shoot stuff and have fun. TimeSplitters has been doing lots of things most popular FPS series these have only started doing, for years. That right there puts TimeSplitters above Gaylo, Call of Duty and any of those other overrated FPS games currently being praised up and down by basement dwellers.

But you know what tops the retard cake in this regard? Crytek UK (previously known as Free Radical) doesn't think another TimeSplitters game would be successful, even though TS2 and Future Perfect sold very, very well. Madness I say. Some companies do the stupidest things... -_-;

[OldSchool]

well, right off the bat you obviously don't have taste for the best games on the system. Almost everything was pick-up-and-play arcade style stuff, and that's what I like. I like the Dreamcast because it has several games that were cross-platform across the PSX, N64, and DC and the DC smokes the rest of them. Tony Hawk 2 is the best Tony Hawk, and the DC has the best version. The controller isn't an issue for me because I have a Total Control Plus and can just use my Logitech Precision Wireless PS2 controller. If not that, the Madcatz Dream Pad is badass and very comfortable.

Regardless, my emphasis was how cheap it was to amass a large library of fun games since it's insanely easy to bootleg games on the system. If you refuse to ever play a burned game, then this whole thread is meaningless to you. Try putting a CD-R in your GC and booting it up...yeah. Furthermore, GC games seem to maintain their value more than other games, making even legitimate buyers pay several times as much for the same game on the GC versus the DC.

I never liked anything about the Gaycube (yes, I'm calling it that, it fucking blows) so I would still rather play the "inferior" Dreamcast version of the games. The XBOX never impressed me either as I can't think of any exclusive that really blew me away nor did I prefer the XBOX version of a cross platform game because the control always felt sloppy somehow (NFS: Hot Pursuit 2 on XBOX vs. PS2 was downright shitty to control on XBOX and great on PS2). On the other hand, I find many DC games have the control down to a science.

The Dreamcast was like a Wii that didn't suck, not a nerdy processor benchmark machine with 1 popular game (Halo+XBOX) or an overly kiddy machine with nothing but outdated ports (Gamecube). I mean, the DC was dead by the time all the other systems were really up and running, so how can you compare graphics from a PS2/GC/XBOX game from 2005 to a DC game from 5 years earlier? And what about the price? DC was $200 on launch day, even then it was a huge bargain!

Sometimes the ports weren't even better. I have Soldier of Fortune Gold for PS2 and the control is awful, but regular Soldier of Fortune on DC played with the same controller thanks to Total Control Plus controls infinitely better. I also have Ferrari F355 Challenge for PS2 and it's virtually unplayable even with the Logitech steering wheel (the force feedback one). I rock at the arcade version, but the PS2 version falls flat. On the other hand, I've heard the DC version is fantastic to play (though I haven't played it since every .cdi I find either crashes discjuggler or doesn't work after burning, if someone can help me out with that via PM, I'd appreciate it). Also, Sonic Adventure beats the pants off of later Sonic games released on GC/XBOX/PS2. Sonic Heroes can DIAF.

DC is badass when looked at from a retro perspective.

Lol... this is why games that are meant for PC like Unreal/etc are best on PC.

And the Tony Hawk games look amazing on the PC with updated Textures, etxtra features in some cases, and the ability to force AA and V-Sync = the games looking 10x better.

[OldSchool]

The Xbox and Gamecube are miles ahead of the PlayStation controller. Geez is that controller awful. Uncomfortable, stupid ass face buttons, the left stick is in the wrong place, trying to use all four triggers at once is impossible and so much more. The GameCube controller may be a bit of a mess, at least it still heeds to smart and sensible controller standards (ABC XYZ). As for the Xbox, using the Duke is an unfair comparison ESPECIALLY since NOBODY uses the Model 1 Saturn controller to benchmark the system. Just like the Model 2 Saturn pad, the Xbox S controller is the system's main controller. There's no excuse for how bad the PS controller is. It's the evil twin of SNES that has been bastardized into modern controller standards. :shame:

... Oh yeah, Dreamcast is sorta in between. The lack of a second stick really limits the controller's flexibility, but again at least the left stick is in the right place and it has ABXY for face buttons.

That controller rocks! It does a very good job for 3rd Person gaming, Skating, and Car Racing!


Playing FPSs with any controller is retarded... M & KB run circles around the controller.


The SNES controller is fantastic! wow

[Puffy2k316]

why do people overrate soul calibur so much it's literally not one of the top ten best fighting games on the dreamcast

[Knuckle Duster]

The GameCube controller may be a bit of a mess, at least it still heeds to smart and sensible controller standards (ABC XYZ).

C stick nub sucks and has no grip.
Z button is stiff and out of the way.
The shoulder buttons have massive saddle lips.
The D-pad is horrendously bad, stiff, and tiny.
The layout of the face buttons is ridiculous.
The PS2/Xbox face buttons are pressure sensitive analog. GC is digital.
The GC has no weight to it.

I don't even know why you brought the PS2 controller into the discussion. It's superior to the cube's, and a brand choice when it comes to the Xbox S.


As for the Xbox, using the Duke is an unfair comparison ESPECIALLY since NOBODY uses the Model 1 Saturn controller to benchmark the system. Just like the Model 2 Saturn pad, the Xbox S controller is the system's main controller.

What's unfair about it?

I made the comparison because he was saying the DC hardware was shit, and the controller was uncomfortable, both compared to the Xbox & GC. Now unless you're looking to wedge his argument further by adding even more time to the comparison, the duke controller is what you would look at, considering it was the launch controller.



"Dreamcast kind of sucks. The games are awful, they were ported to consoles 3 years later with better controllers that totally kick it's ass and make it 'not uncool' but 'not a good console' on it's own." :wtf:

[Guntz]

C stick nub sucks and has no grip.

Alright. You have one point.


Z button is stiff and out of the way.

There's nothing wrong with it.


The shoulder buttons have massive saddle lips.

Again, there's nothing wrong with it.


The D-pad is horrendously bad, stiff, and tiny.

Fair enough. Two points that lend to your argument now.


The layout of the face buttons is ridiculous.

It's actually rather neat if you think about it. The A Button is easily the most used button in all GC games, so why not make it the most important and therefore, largest? It's pretty convenient once you get past the problem of being an uptight square.


The PS2/Xbox face buttons are pressure sensitive analog. GC is digital.

And how many games use it? Next to none? Oh yeah...


The GC has no weight to it.

Once again, nothing wrong with it. Is it really that big a deal if your controller is lighter than others? If it's such a problem, get a wavebird. The batteries add a bit more weight than the standard controller.

So basically there's two actual flaws with the GC controller. Everything else you listed is subjective nit picking.


I don't even know why you brought the PS2 controller into the discussion. It's superior to the cube's, and a brand choice when it comes to the Xbox S.

He was discussing how the Dreamcast controller compares to Xbox and GC, so I added PS2 into the mix. It IS in the same generation you know. It's ALSO not the greatest controller like everybody and his dog thinks it is. Fanboyism much?


What's unfair about it?

He used the Duke controller to benchmark the Xbox rather than the S controller. Everybody knows the S controller is the standard pad for the Xbox. The fact that he has to use the Duke in his argument pretty much says that he has nothing bad to say about the Xbox controller.


I made the comparison because he was saying the DC hardware was shit, and the controller was uncomfortable, both compared to the Xbox & GC. Now unless you're looking to wedge his argument further by adding even more time to the comparison, the duke controller is what you would look at, considering it was the launch controller.

Nobody looks to the Model 1 Saturn controller as the Saturn's benchmark. NOBODY. Why should the Xbox be any different? :roll:

[Knuckle Duster]

There's no 'Point by Point' breakdown to be made here.

The saddle lipped analog shoulder buttons contrast the tiny stiff oddly placed piece of shit Z button. It's like they took aesthetic design to extremes everywhere on the controller.

Face buttons with pressure sensitivity were used in enough games to make a difference to the I/O. In metal gear solid 2 you could back off slowly without shooting someone. In racing games you had the extra dynamic option of letting off the gas without braking, when making turns to qualify. This is not possible on the gamecube.


So basically there's two actual flaws with the GC controller. Everything else you listed is subjective nit picking.

He was discussing how the Dreamcast controller compares to Xbox and GC, so I added PS2 into the mix. It IS in the same generation you know. It's ALSO not the greatest controller like everybody and his dog thinks it is. Fanboyism much?

Subjective nit picking?! Just, shut up and go back to Gamefaqs Koopa64, your pretentious know-it-all attitude flew high in that scene, but it won't score you any points here, especially with arguing nonsensical irrelevancies like 'It IS in the same generation you know.' Of course we know. Who are you calling the fanboy?



He used the Duke controller to benchmark the Xbox rather than the S controller. Everybody knows the S controller is the standard pad for the Xbox. The fact that he has to use the Duke in his argument pretty much says that he has nothing bad to say about the Xbox controller.


You're looking to argue rather than read what's being said. 'I' mentioned the Duke, because it's absurd to compare the Dreacmast, which came out in early 99 to the Xbox as far as hardware is concerned. It's 2-3 years ahead, of course it will be better. The controller S didn't come standard until 2002. Comparing it as being better than the dreamcast is again, absurd.



Nobody looks to the Model 1 Saturn controller as the Saturn's benchmark. NOBODY. Why should the Xbox be any different? :roll:

The point is that the comparison itself can't be made fairly! You're an idiot.

[17daysolderthannes]

I really like the Logitech wireless Xbox controller, which I assume has much of the build quality of the Logitech wireless PS2 one you show. And if you don't like shooters, the left analog stick is not your preferred method of control. It is for me. I really wish the DC had had twin sticks though, because I've tried to play a few games on the DC that used the face buttons in place of a right stick (MDK and Carrier come to mind) and I just can't deal with it. I'm not sure if there's a way ti use a PS/PS2 controller and to reconfigure the controls to use 2 sticks, but if there is, I would love to know.

Have you played either of those games, 17days? or would you be willing to try either or both of them with your Total Control and a PS controller?

Well, I come from the days of furious weekends of Goldeneye and later Perfect Dark, so I've been classically trained to use 4 buttons in a "diamond" shape for strafing and looking up and down. Therefore, the DC makes me feel right at home, perhaps even more than dual sticks. To answer your question about using PS2 sticks in place of the face buttons, no, the Total Control Plus doesn't use the second stick for anything. However, you CAN perhaps do it with a Dreamcast emulator as I use the second stick in place of the C-buttons on Project64 since there aren't enough face buttons on a standard PS2 controller.


This thread has a strange premise. 'Save money by buying this console and pirating its games'.



First off, ODST's Firefight mode is a botmatch. Sorry.

Second, bots are a remnant of an age without the Internet, and where the absolute limitation for multiplayer was four people squinting at a single screen. Fire off more than a few rounds, though, and you'd get a better frame rate by painting images onto bread and toasting them. And possibly at a better resolution than the N64 *rimshot*

but seriously, as Knuckle Duster mentioned, if you're playing against bots you're (uuuurgh here it comes) playing it wrong (aaargh!): bots are no substitute for human beings. You can increase their weapon damage, you can give them sight beyond sight, you can turn them into bullet sponges, but they won't play like people.

There's a MGS Raiden joke in here somewhere, but I'm sounding goony enough by far already. Bottom line is, why would I want to play against AI when I can connect to Xbox Live and immediately jump into a 16-player deathmatch in Halo 3? For games where the online multiplayer has flatlined (uhh, Call of Suity Quantum of Solace) there's always the local multiplayer/System Link option.

The premise of this thread is "cheap good times." Who cares if we pirate the games, the developers have stopped profiting long ago and probably 98% of its library has no modern commercially available equivalent. It's not just the easy piracy that makes it cool either: cheat CDs and VMU save discs can be burned for free rather than shelling out 20 bucks for a cheat device or 40 bucks for a memory card reader, emulation is the best for an unmodded console and by far the most accessible to the lay man outside of a PC emulator (in fact, I would argue Nester DC is more user friendly than a standard PC NES emulator), and homebrew is top notch and can be played without modding the system, which is awesome.

As for the rest...

I didn't know ODST had that mode, but it took them long enough. My first impression when playing Halo was "WTF? where are the bots!?"

Bots offer something human players alone can't provide. For instance, you and your friend can team up against another team of bots and see who can kill the most non-human players. In Perfect Dark, you can basically create your own games. When I would get bored, I would put the maximum number of slow, easy, fist bots all on a team against me. Then, I would change the weapons to all shotguns. The bots would just slowly creep towards me trying to slap me, and I would promptly blast the shit out of them by the boatload. In essence, I created my own survivor/horror game. Doing this while teamed up with a friend was a really fun experience and something playing against human players online could never re-create. Also, online players tend to be overzealous people that do nothing but barely eat and sleep and play that one game. How am I supposed to compete with someone that has 100X as much time invested in the game as I do? I think newer consoles use some sort of rankings to even up the field (I haven't played anything online in quite a while), which helps, but it's still a different experience. I also hate people that figure out glitch exploitation, especially in fighting games.


Lol... this is why games that are meant for PC like Unreal/etc are best on PC.

And the Tony Hawk games look amazing on the PC with updated Textures, etxtra features in some cases, and the ability to force AA and V-Sync = the games looking 10x better.

I'm just not a big fan of the keyboard and mouse. I like just a little bit of auto aim and otherwise standard joystick movement. I also like the consistency you get by playing on consoles, especially online. There's nothing worse than getting your ass handed to you because someone just blew $5000 on a new gaming rig and has the upper hand on you from hardware alone.

I've played Tony Hawk 2 on PC before and IMO it looks just as good on DC. Maybe it would be a different story on an HDTV, but I'm content with the DC version.


why do people overrate soul calibur so much it's literally not one of the top ten best fighting games on the dreamcast

Soul Calibur is fucking horrible. There, I said it. It's nothing more than random button mashing nonsense. I've never seen a game where someone who's never played video games before could jump in and totally stomp a seasoned player. Tekken can also go to hell. Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, Fatal Fury, King of Fighters, Samurai Shodown, this is what all true warriors strive for! But no Marvel Vs. Capcom, that game is just one big clusterfuck of bullshit.

[Knuckle Duster]

Soul Calibur is fucking horrible. There, I said it. It's nothing more than random button mashing nonsense. I've never seen a game where someone who's never played video games before could jump in and totally stomp a seasoned player. Tekken can also go to hell. Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, Fatal Fury, King of Fighters, Samurai Shodown, this is what all true warriors strive for! But no Marvel Vs. Capcom, that game is just one big clusterfuck of bullshit.

Soul Calibur is perfectly balanced though. A seasoned player should be able to block and throw everything a button masher gives them. As with all fighters, it comes down to learning how to play properly. This is why Virtua Fighter is awesome.

[17daysolderthannes]

Soul Calibur is perfectly balanced though. A seasoned player should be able to block and throw everything a button masher gives them. As with all fighters, it comes down to learning how to play properly. This is why Virtua Fighter is awesome.

Eh, I'm kinda racist against any fighter that has combo systems. That's why I don't like Killer Instinct, Soul Calibur, Tekken, Virtua Fighter, MVC2, etc. I also don't like playing the Real Bout Fatal Fury and Garou: Mark of the Wolves games when playing against advanced players because of the semi-combo system in there.

I did forget to mention my favorite 3D fighter though: Battle Arena Toshinden (specifically 2). It's the only 3D fighter that wasn't a combo clusterfuck.

[acdc]

terminator 2 the arcade game for the master system compleet for 5 euro
it s a rare game for the master system but it can be played with the light phaser
only with the control pad

[Knuckle Duster]

terminator 2 the arcade game for the master system compleet for 5 euro
it s a rare game for the master system but it can be played with the light phaser
only with the control pad

http://4gifs.com/gallery/d/131237-1/Savage_cool_story.jpg?

[acdc]

Yeah im cool in a 80 s way.
That s why i m wearing sunglasses at night becaus the sun shines 24 houers a day when your cool.

[Knuckle Duster]

Yeah im cool in a 80 s way.
That s why i m wearing sunglasses at night becaus the sun shines 24 houers a day when your cool.

Blinded by coolness, enough to post your latest buy in a Dreamcast thread without noticing. :cool:

[Guntz]

There's no 'Point by Point' breakdown to be made here.

The saddle lipped analog shoulder buttons contrast the tiny stiff oddly placed piece of shit Z button. It's like they took aesthetic design to extremes everywhere on the controller.

Face buttons with pressure sensitivity were used in enough games to make a difference to the I/O. In metal gear solid 2 you could back off slowly without shooting someone. In racing games you had the extra dynamic option of letting off the gas without braking, when making turns to qualify. This is not possible on the gamecube.



Subjective nit picking?! Just, shut up and go back to Gamefaqs Koopa64, your pretentious know-it-all attitude flew high in that scene, but it won't score you any points here, especially with arguing nonsensical irrelevancies like 'It IS in the same generation you know.' Of course we know. Who are you calling the fanboy?



You're looking to argue rather than read what's being said. 'I' mentioned the Duke, because it's absurd to compare the Dreacmast, which came out in early 99 to the Xbox as far as hardware is concerned. It's 2-3 years ahead, of course it will be better. The controller S didn't come standard until 2002. Comparing it as being better than the dreamcast is again, absurd.



The point is that the comparison itself can't be made fairly! You're an idiot.

You know what? You say I'm a pretentious know-it-all, but I could say the very same about you. Just reading over your responses is telling me you don't like having yourself mirrored.

I feel as if I know you from somewhere...

Oh yeah, I see no point in arguing any of your replies as it's pretty clear you do not want an answer.

[Puffy2k316]

Soul Calibur is perfectly balanced though. A seasoned player should be able to block and throw everything a button masher gives them. As with all fighters, it comes down to learning how to play properly. This is why Virtua Fighter is awesome.

Comparing soul calibur to virtua fighter is like comparing mortal kombat to street fighter

[Knuckle Duster]

You know what? You say I'm a pretentious know-it-all, but I could say the very same about you. Just reading over your responses is telling me you don't like having yourself mirrored.

The day you make sense & can convey your opinion without jumping to condescending conclusions, is the day I will harbor the faintest thought of you 'mirroring' me in the slightest.



I feel as if I know you from somewhere...


You don't.



Oh yeah, I see no point in arguing any of your replies as it's pretty clear you do not want an answer.

An answer to what? I'm not asking anything. All you're doing is stating your opinion on why 'PS2', which nobody was talking about, sucks compared to 'GC/Xbox'. Furthermore you're blaming one guy for saying something someone else (me) said as a condescending justification for your personal tangent.

I thought pointing out the crazy-talk put forward by Englaze as being 'illogical' would be easy to digest for most people here, but apparently you prefer to wedge yourself in an argument of your own design where ever possible. It's not exactly troll bait material, but it's worthy of a snubbing in the context you put forward.

State your opinion all you want, don't get bitchy when someone points out differences to you.


Comparing soul calibur to virtua fighter is like comparing mortal kombat to street fighter

:rofl:

I wouldn't normally compare them at all, outside of saying that they both achieve a perfect control balance in what they offer. VF being the series with the most depth IMO.

[17daysolderthannes]

Comparing soul calibur to virtua fighter is like comparing mortal kombat to street fighter

which is a good comparison...

I mean, Mortal Kombat lacks the depth and fine-tuned-ness of SF, but the overall style of the game is very similar: 1 on 1, special moves using charge/tap/quarter circles, variety of kicks and punches that don't lead to pre-determined combos. Mortal Kombat may not be as polished as SF, but they're more comparable than almost any other fighters of the time, alongside Eternal Champions and Fatal Fury (2 and special more specifically, 1 is in its own world).

[mugenmidget]

Dreamcast is rad, I play Power Stone 2 more than Smash Brothers. Ultimate party game!

It'd also be my favorite for Street Fighter if the port of Super Turbo was in 240p, but that honor is reserved for the PSX/Saturn. :( I think the "Vampire Collection" might suffer the same problem, but more importantly it's not nearly as arcade accurate as the Saturn version of Vampire Savior. Still an interesting game to mess with, though, can't really go wrong as a casual fan of the series.

Lots of great fighters on both Saturn and DC. Not that big of a fan of the NES emulator (NesterDC SE, which was AMAZING when it first released and is still very awesome), because while it has some very cool features, it also lacks a true 240p mode. The Wii's FCE Ultra GX is a lot better, you can get the native resolution and use SMB file sharing to load ROMs over the network. That and SD cards make it easier to add new games instead of burning new CDs or DVDs all the time, and gives you plenty of room for save RAM and save states.

I used to also enjoy Snes9xGx through Wii, but don't use it as much any more thanks to the SNES Neo Myth (still good for the currently unsupported special DSP games, though). Same for Genesis emulators, not much of a point to them once you have a flash card.

Um, looks like I forgot this was a Dreamcast topic. :) Dreamcast is still cool, Psychic Force forever! :cool:

[acdc]

Blinded by coolness, enough to post your latest buy in a Dreamcast thread without noticing. :cool:

what can i say mastersystem beats dreamcast in coolness

[Knuckle Duster]

:roll: Looks like someone didn't log out.

[acdc]

yeah that s my little brother that was in the house
gonna hit im hard for that one

[Rusty Venture]

Dreamcast is rad, I play Power Stone 2 more than Smash Brothers. Ultimate party game!

Other than being pretty weak on levels, Power Stone 2 is the most rocking party game in the history of ever.

I can't get enough of slapping people around with fish and dropping meteors on them.

[mugenmidget]

Haha, amen. What's funny is I felt the same way about the lack of levels but hadn't even played on the weird secret ones until VERY recently. They don't make up for it, but I can't believe they eluded me for so long!

[17daysolderthannes]

Not that big of a fan of the NES emulator (NesterDC SE, which was AMAZING when it first released and is still very awesome), because while it has some very cool features, it also lacks a true 240p mode.

I don't see what the big deal is with 240p. IMO, 240p looks worse than 480i. My gripe with Nester DC is the slightly high controller lag (not unplayable, but noticeable and takes some getting used to, it also screws me up in intense games of tetris and other games that require split second pin point precision).

[mugenmidget]

Hm, does NesterDCSE still have that issue? I remember when Scherzo was working on it that was one of the things he was targetting to fix from the previous NesterDC (I think it was 7.1 but I'm not sure).

There actually used to be input lag in FCE Ultra GX, but it has been severely diminished in the latest release. That's one reason you usually want the native resolution, anything else is being filtered or upscaled in some fashion which will add lag of varying degrees. But that really depends more on how the emulator is programmed.

The real reasons I prefer 240p include nostalgia along with wanting 60 fps and generally not being a fan of interlacing/flicker. At the same time though, I know scanlines drive some people nuts, so I can see why interlaced is preferable for some. I don't remember if NesterDCSE worked with the VGA box (and maybe you could force it even if it didn't), but if it does then I guess a lot of the things I mentioned are non-issues. :p

On a side note: IMBNes on PSX was nice for its time as well. Input lag was minimal and you got a 240p picture.

[Guntz]

The day you make sense & can convey your opinion without jumping to condescending conclusions, is the day I will harbor the faintest thought of you 'mirroring' me in the slightest.

See the third quote down...


You don't.

That's what you'd like me to think.



An answer to what? I'm not asking anything. All you're doing is stating your opinion on why 'PS2', which nobody was talking about, sucks compared to 'GC/Xbox'. Furthermore you're blaming one guy for saying something someone else (me) said as a condescending justification for your personal tangent.

I thought pointing out the crazy-talk put forward by Englaze as being 'illogical' would be easy to digest for most people here, but apparently you prefer to wedge yourself in an argument of your own design where ever possible. It's not exactly troll bait material, but it's worthy of a snubbing in the context you put forward.

Well I applaud you for not insulting me more. Here I thought you were just one of those run-of-the-mill trolls. Yes I will remove myself from the topic. Personally I'd rather talk about the DC instead.


State your opinion all you want, don't get bitchy when someone points out differences to you.

Whatever...

[Rusty Venture]

Haha, amen. What's funny is I felt the same way about the lack of levels but hadn't even played on the weird secret ones until VERY recently. They don't make up for it, but I can't believe they eluded me for so long!

Yeah, those extra levels are yawn-tastic. The city one is my absolute least favorite, you spend more time trying not to fall than kicking ass.

But damn I love those more advanced weapons. Lance of Lava, Dragon Sword, Mega Buster, Motor Scooter....all jawusum.

[MrMatthews]

In regards to the pissing match between Guntz and Knuckle Duster:

Yes, Guntz, KD is something of a know-it-all and he's kind of a dick, but he's our dick. I happen to like him, but then again I've never been on the wrong side of a debate with him (that he's made me aware of, anyway).

It might be best to not have any opinions for a few weeks, since you've been involved in a lot of arguments lately.

[Metal_Sonic]

In regards to the pissing match between Guntz and Knuckle Duster:

Yes, Guntz, KD is something of a know-it-all and he's kind of a dick, but he's our dick. I happen to like him, but then again I've never been on the wrong side of a debate with him (that he's made me aware of, anyway).

It might be best to not have any opinions for a few weeks, since you've been involved in a lot of arguments lately.

http://media.skateboard.com.au/forum/images/Cool-Dog-Hey-Cool-story-bro41.jpg

[Guntz]

In regards to the pissing match between Guntz and Knuckle Duster:

Yes, Guntz, KD is something of a know-it-all and he's kind of a dick, but he's our dick. I happen to like him, but then again I've never been on the wrong side of a debate with him (that he's made me aware of, anyway).

It might be best to not have any opinions for a few weeks, since you've been involved in a lot of arguments lately.

I understand. I never took any of his posts seriously anyway. I don't mean to be a dick myself but I sometimes come off as one so I'm pretty much in the same boat as him. Mostly I think of him as being rather... Weird. For lack of a better word.

[MrMatthews]

Mostly I think of him as being rather... Weird.

Well, he's Canadian, what do you expect?

http://img.timeinc.net/time/quotes/2008/07/0704_bozo.jpg

Wakka wakka wakka! Tip your waitresses, folks!

[Guntz]

:rofl:

Oh wait, I'm from Canada as well! That means I'm weird too! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

[Knuckle Duster]

When my team of ninjas slice up your team of ninjas and get to you MrMatthews. The last thing you'll hear is:

"CooLooCooCooCooCooCooCoo!"

pNRlcjz3acU

[17daysolderthannes]

And now...a Dreamcast mystery!

It was the night of the Sega employee jamboree...

...no it wasn't.

I got my Sega Sports DC in, it's effing beautiful in fact (does Wikipedia need another 17daysolderthannes "OMG HOLY SHIT THAT IS BEAUTIFUL!" money shot?), but it won't play Propeller Arena, and ONLY Propeller Arena. The manufacture date is July 2000, it plays commercial games and all other backups/homebrew I tried on it (4-5 games consisting of a US game, a US game that doesn't have substantial padding to the data, a Japanese game, an emulator disc, so pretty much all different kinds), but Propeller Arena always fails to pass authenticity checks. I can't imagine why this is as I assume all of these games use roughly the same process to authenticate the data, and all of the games I tried were burned with the exact same brand of CD-R. Tis a mystery, but I guess it's good I really don't find Propeller Arena all that fun (I can't even do a barrel roll? wtf? real planes can roll dammit).

Even Peppy knows a good flight sim should let you do a barrel roll:

http://defaultprime.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/do-a-barrel-roll.jpg

[TheRollingStoner]

And now...a Dreamcast mystery!

It was the night of the Sega employee jamboree...

...no it wasn't.

I got my Sega Sports DC in, it's effing beautiful in fact (does Wikipedia need another 17daysolderthannes "OMG HOLY SHIT THAT IS BEAUTIFUL!" money shot?), but it won't play Propeller Arena, and ONLY Propeller Arena. The manufacture date is July 2000, it plays commercial games and all other backups/homebrew I tried on it (4-5 games consisting of a US game, a US game that doesn't have substantial padding to the data, a Japanese game, an emulator disc, so pretty much all different kinds), but Propeller Arena always fails to pass authenticity checks. I can't imagine why this is as I assume all of these games use roughly the same process to authenticate the data, and all of the games I tried were burned with the exact same brand of CD-R. Tis a mystery, but I guess it's good I really don't find Propeller Arena all that fun (I can't even do a barrel roll? wtf? real planes can roll dammit).

Just out of curiosity, what brand of cdr do you use for your dreamcast? I've got one on the way and have already burnt some discs for it. It's manufacture date is January 2000, so it should be able to read discs. I've read that it has trouble with memorex, which is what I used, since that's all I have laying around.

[17daysolderthannes]

Just out of curiosity, what brand of cdr do you use for your dreamcast? I've got one on the way and have already burnt some discs for it. It's manufacture date is January 2000, so it should be able to read discs. I've read that it has trouble with memorex, which is what I used, since that's all I have laying around.

I've used imation and Sony discs with equal success, though the Sony discs feel of higher quality and seem to burn with higher contrast between dark and light bits (which makes it ultimately easier to read). Target has the 100 disc spindles on sale all the time, that's where I got mine. I've probably got close to 50 discs burned for that thing by now, lol! There's so much stuff you can burn for the DC: commercial games, homebrew games, emulator discs, VMU save discs, cheat discs, various media player discs, etc. etc.

[TheRollingStoner]

Yeah, I've been checking out a certain zone on the interwebs and I've noticed that there's so much out there for the DC. I've already got NesterDC and Crazy Taxi burned, and the NesterDC worked alright in a DC emulator, but the Crazy Taxi didn't. The emulator probably isn't compatible with everything, so I'm not too worried. I just hope that these discs work and that I didn't make some coasters. I'm gonna pick up some other discs to burn for it soon, so I'll see what happens.

I'm starting the think that the Dreamcast will become my favorite system, seeing how easy it is to burn homebrew and backup games and what not. I take it you never tried using memorex to burn DC shit. I just wanna know if anyone has firsthand experience with them.

[17daysolderthannes]

I think I might've had Memorex BITD, but not for DC. Most people seem to say imation is the worst, and those worked for me, so I think anything that isn't a total "OMGWTFBBQ" brand should work. Just burn it in DiskJuggler and it should go A OK. I would say if anything you burned works, it's probably not the discs, you might just have bad images (but anything from "that zone" should probably be OK, but I've had my best luck with a COOL site for ROMS on my .COMputer).

The DC is quickly becoming my favorite system too because of all of the great stuff you can burn. It's like a TV-based computer in a very genuine sense, like a web TV but 1000X better. Many other systems can be soft or hard-modded and actually have more functionality, but then you're always nervous of messing up a soft mod and bricking it or having the modchip crap out, etc. A DC needs no modding to the system and everything is contained on the disc, so if a disc doesn't work, it's no harm, no foul. If only there was a Wi-Fi internet adapter, I might actually even go online on my DC, lol! I even have the keyboard for it already thanks to the awesome computer repair store that "doesn't like to sell" game enhancement devices and unorthodox accessories/controllers. I guess I need to get Typing of the Dead and try that baby out.

[Guntz]

Mr. Dreamcast wiz (AKA 17days), I cannot get ANY burned Dreamcast disc to work and never have. I use Bootdreams since I hate using trial software since it will eventually stop working (like discjuggler and alcohol 120%) and it has yet to produce a disc that either boots or doesn't glitch up. The only CD-Rs I have right now are Staples brand.

Oh yeah, I've used the same CD-Rs to burn perfectly working Sega CD games. In fact, only a few times burned Sega CD discs didn't work, but same cannot be said about Dreamcast, quite the opposite really.

[InternalPrimate]

Yeah, I've been checking out a certain zone on the interwebs and I've noticed that there's so much out there for the DC. I've already got NesterDC and Crazy Taxi burned, and the NesterDC worked alright in a DC emulator, but the Crazy Taxi didn't. The emulator probably isn't compatible with everything, so I'm not too worried.

You're using an emulator on an emulator!?! That's a mind-fuck right there :D

[Guntz]

emulator chains are pretty fun. Here's an easy example:

Windows XP (base) > Mac OS X (PearPC) > Windows 98 (Virtual PC) > Amiga (emulator) > home console/handheld. :D

[Knuckle Duster]

emulator chains are pretty fun. Here's an easy example:

Windows XP (base) > Windows 98 (Virtual PC) > Amiga (emulator) > home console/handheld. :D

Not emulation. :cool:

It's nice to see you've 'edited it' correctly though.

[17daysolderthannes]

You're using an emulator on an emulator!?! That's a mind-fuck right there :D

well here's an interesting point with that too: the DC emulator is designed as a "front end"-type emulator, one that is capable of being controlled with only a game pad rather than a keyboard and mouse. Therefore, playing a NesterDC disc on a Dreamcast emulator is really the most turn-key easy way to have a controller operated NES emulator for noobs that get scared with the more programmer/developer oriented options of most PC emulators. Then again, I guess you have to configure all of the options in the DC emulator, which is more difficult, so nevermind.

I use PSX and N64 emulators in XP running on my Mac in Parallels, though it's actually only partial emulation since it's a native processor, it's really just the drivers that are somewhat emulated.

[Devil N]

You're using an emulator on an emulator!?! That's a mind-fuck right there :D
Even more fun: there's a 68k Macintosh emulator called Mini vMac, that can also be compiled and run on an actual 68k Mac. Of course, that also means you can run Mini vMac inside Mini vMac itself.

[Guntz]

Mr. Dreamcast wiz (AKA 17days), I cannot get ANY burned Dreamcast disc to work and never have. I use Bootdreams since I hate using trial software since it will eventually stop working (like discjuggler and alcohol 120%) and it has yet to produce a disc that either boots or doesn't glitch up. The only CD-Rs I have right now are Staples brand.

Oh yeah, I've used the same CD-Rs to burn perfectly working Sega CD games. In fact, only a few times burned Sega CD discs didn't work, but same cannot be said about Dreamcast, quite the opposite really.

^Look here 17days.

[Guntz]

Even more fun: there's a 68k Macintosh emulator called Mini vMac, that can also be compiled and run on an actual 68k Mac. Of course, that also means you can run Mini vMac inside Mini vMac itself.

Mini vMac isn't a computer. It's the name of the emulator. There are dozens of different 68k Macintosh models.

[17daysolderthannes]

^Look here 17days.

solution: USE DISCJUGGLER LIKE I TOLD YOU TO!

The demo of DiscJuggler does not expire, which is why I always recommend it, it's just limited to the minimum burn speed of the drive (which coincidentally is exactly what you want) and you have the annoying stuff like the 10 second countdown when you open it. There's a 700MB limit too, but last time I checked, most CD-Rs have a 700MB capacity.

The reason you have to use DiscJuggler (or Alcohol 120%, but I recommend DiscJuggler) is because the disc has to be burned in two different sessions to be able to be read. Most CD burn programs and formats (like ISO) just burn a disc straight up and won't format it correctly.

Open the .cdi files in discjuggler, insert a disc, touch NO settings, and click burn. It will always say "blah blah blah 700MB blah blah blah lowest burn speed" hit "yes" and ALWAYS say no to "do you want discjuggler to try to fix the problem?" as it will sometimes ask with certain .cdis. Apparently DiscJuggler mistakes some .cdis for being messed up when they in fact are exactly how they need to be.

Picking up better CD-Rs couldn't hurt either, I really like my Sony discs.

[Guntz]

solution: USE DISCJUGGLER LIKE I TOLD YOU TO!

The demo of DiscJuggler does not expire, which is why I always recommend it, it's just limited to the minimum burn speed of the drive (which coincidentally is exactly what you want) and you have the annoying stuff like the 10 second countdown when you open it. There's a 700MB limit too, but last time I checked, most CD-Rs have a 700MB capacity.

The reason you have to use DiscJuggler (or Alcohol 120%, but I recommend DiscJuggler) is because the disc has to be burned in two different sessions to be able to be read. Most CD burn programs and formats (like ISO) just burn a disc straight up and won't format it correctly.

Open the .cdi files in discjuggler, insert a disc, touch NO settings, and click burn. It will always say "blah blah blah 700MB blah blah blah lowest burn speed" hit "yes" and ALWAYS say no to "do you want discjuggler to try to fix the problem?" as it will sometimes ask with certain .cdis. Apparently DiscJuggler mistakes some .cdis for being messed up when they in fact are exactly how they need to be.

Picking up better CD-Rs couldn't hurt either, I really like my Sony discs.

Huh, could have sworn Discjuggler's trial expired. I guess that'll be my next download. Still, why doesn't Bootdreams work? Especially since it's called Bootdreams, in reference to the Dreamcast.

Also, the Staples brand CD-Rs were the only ones I could find locally. CD-Rs have been drying up pretty fast. I might have one Sony CD-R left though. :|

[17daysolderthannes]

Huh, could have sworn Discjuggler's trial expired. I guess that'll be my next download. Still, why doesn't Bootdreams work? Especially since it's called Bootdreams, in reference to the Dreamcast.

Also, the Staples brand CD-Rs were the only ones I could find locally. CD-Rs have been drying up pretty fast. I might have one Sony CD-R left though. :|

I dunno. Yes, BootDreams is meant to burn DC games, but perhaps it hasn't been updated in a while and is incompatible with newer DiscJuggler images. At any rate, .cdi is DiscJuggler's format, so might as well burn it with the OG software.

As for CD-Rs, do you have a Target in your area? my Super Target always has Sony CD-Rs in various places. It is true they are drying up as MP3 players and flash drives remove most of the necessity for them, but I think they'll be around. It's still the easiest way to give a several hundred MB file without having to lose your flash drive. Heck, you can still buy floppy discs online, so I think CD-Rs will be around for a good while yet.

[Guntz]

I dunno. Yes, BootDreams is meant to burn DC games, but perhaps it hasn't been updated in a while and is incompatible with newer DiscJuggler images. At any rate, .cdi is DiscJuggler's format, so might as well burn it with the OG software.

You'd think .djr would be DiscJuggler's format or something. I thought .cdi was like bin/cue and iso. I guess that's why Imgburn doesn't support cdi.

Oh yeah, why is it Dreamcast games are ripped/homebrew software is written in that format?


As for CD-Rs, do you have a Target in your area? my Super Target always has Sony CD-Rs in various places. It is true they are drying up as MP3 players and flash drives remove most of the necessity for them, but I think they'll be around. It's still the easiest way to give a several hundred MB file without having to lose your flash drive. Heck, you can still buy floppy discs online, so I think CD-Rs will be around for a good while yet.

Hell no. I live in the boonies, there's no sight of specialty retailers like Best Buy, Circuit City, Future Shop or Target. I guess I'll just have to look harder. Maybe I might find some in the 20 pack bundles with the flimsy thin jewel cases, but I prefer 50 disc spindles. Less packaging waste.

[acdc]

When my team of ninjas slice up your team of ninjas and get to you MrMatthews. The last thing you'll hear is:

"CooLooCooCooCooCooCooCoo!"

pNRlcjz3acU


hooser

[Knuckle Duster]

hooser

Take off eh.

[17daysolderthannes]

Oh yeah, why is it Dreamcast games are ripped/homebrew software is written in that format?

Like I said, .cdi can do multiple sessions in the same burn, I don't think any other formats can do that (at least not ones with unlimited trial software).




Hell no. I live in the boonies, there's no sight of specialty retailers like Best Buy, Circuit City, Future Shop or Target. I guess I'll just have to look harder. Maybe I might find some in the 20 pack bundles with the flimsy thin jewel cases, but I prefer 50 disc spindles. Less packaging waste.

I buy 100 disc spindles.

http://www.amazon.com/Sony-100CDQ80RS-CD-R-Pack-Spindle/dp/B00007E8AB/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

People seem to bitch and moan in the reviews, but I've never had a disc not work unless it was just a bad burn file to begin with. I think people just have sketchy CD burners.

[Christuserloeser]

Oh yeah, why is it Dreamcast games are ripped/homebrew software is written in that format?

Because the MIL-CD exploit requires an audio/data or data/data format which couldn't be stored as .iso or .bin.
I am not sure why the bootleggers went with DiscJuggler but I assume that the availability of a shareware version with little restrictions helped a lot in establishing it as the format of choice.

The latest version of BootDreams should work great too btw, but it is not meant to be used with commercial games.

[TheRollingStoner]

You're using an emulator on an emulator!?! That's a mind-fuck right there :D
Yup. It doesn't play exactly as it should, but good enough to see if the disc burned ok, which is why I tried it. I just gotta wait a few days to get my Dreamcast.

[Guntz]

I downloaded Discjuggler, grabbed a Fujifilm CD-R, burned a Neo4ALL disc with Metal Slug 2 on default settings and no assistance from Discjuggler and yet again, the disc doesn't work. It just spins in the drive, this time making less noise than the last time I tried this file.

I can't even get a pre-assembled Neo4ALL disc to work... :shame:

[17daysolderthannes]

is your DC made before October 2000? have you tried any other games? Try a commercial game with lots of "thumbs up" at DCISOZONE and see if you can get that to work. Could be the discs, could be your burner (is the laser clean, etc.? maybe blow out your computer's CD drive with canned air), could be a bad image of Neo4All or one that requires a weird version of DiscJuggler, etc.

At any rate, Metal Slug 2 sucks, Metal Slug X is the exact same game without the slowdown.

[Guntz]

My DC was made in June of 2000. I've only ever tried burning homebrew stuff since I could easily get the real games with the packaging and everything (not to mention they would work perfectly). I'll try a commercial game from DCISOZONE.

Also, don't assume I haven't played Metal Slug. I much prefer MS2 over X, even with the slowdown. In X, enemies are in the wrong, the colors are WAY off (especially the final boss room) places and it has the sound "improvements" (I.E. the announcer is changed). They're both fun, but I'll take MS2 over X if I had to choose. Besides, I've heard MSX isn't emulated perfectly on Neo4ALL, so even more reason to play MS2 instead.

[17daysolderthannes]

TBH, I haven't tried to burn any Neo4All discs, so I don't know if any of the DCISOZONE ones have problems. I always had the Metal Slug Collection on PS2 and now I have A/V out and MAME. I'll download it anyway and see what the dilly is.

[Guntz]

This is the one I downloaded, if it helps:

http://dcisozone.com/downloads/1213/Metal-Slug-2-(Neo4All).html

Frankly, if the DC has Neo games ported to it already, might as well try and get them working on the Dreamcast rather than finding another method like MSA on PS2 or MAME. Only problem is my DC is extremely picky with the stuff I burn for it. Off the top of my head the only two items I've gotten to work with it was a Sonic ROM compilation pack that glitched with most (if not all) of the games on it as well as a MAME but none of the ROMs I put on the disc showed up.

Well at least I have a never ending supply of Frisbees if ever I need one. Just grab one from the spindle labeled "Dreamcast CD-Rs". :(

Oh yeah, I was gonna download a Neo4ALL disc with tons of Neo ROMs on it instead of just one Neo CD game. Here's a link:

http://www.snesorama.us/board/showthread.php?t=46255

Is that any better? Kinda sucks it only has MSX on it...

[17daysolderthannes]

no idea if it's better, but it's got a good list of games (cyberlip and Baseball Stars 2, woot!). I'd try it.

I'm downloading Metal Slug 2 to see if it works on my setup, but I won't be able to try it until tomorrow sometime because it still has 2 more hours of downloading thanks to DCISOZONE's annoying bandwidth cap.

[Guntz]

Yeah, I'm gonna download the other two parts some other time. I can only download so much on my internet connection before things really slow down. Ah well, in good time.

Thanks for trying out MS2 for me. I just hope there's something wrong on my end, It'd be nice to pop MS2 in my Dreamcast whenever for nice convenient shooting fun. :D

[Knuckle Duster]

I think it's interesting to note in this topic, I ruined a fairly new DVDRAM burner when I started 'Overburning' DC discs in Discjuggler.
It's not calibrated correctly now & won't read/write DVDs, cd's are fine though. It could be coincidental, but I don't think so.

This happened a while ago, and at this point I'd sooner replace it than open & fix it. I've seen $50 junk burners last for 2000+ writes, this one screwed the pooch at probably 150.

[Christuserloeser]

Oh yeah, I was gonna download a Neo4ALL disc with tons of Neo ROMs on it instead of just one Neo CD game. Is that any better? Kinda sucks it only has MSX on it...

No, Neo4All/CD is better than the AES emulator. It'd still be worth a download though.


You could try downloading something from http://www.DCEvolution.net/ and see if it works. I'd recommend the NES compilation or Quake for a start.

[17daysolderthannes]

I think it's interesting to note in this topic, I ruined a fairly new DVDRAM burner when I started 'Overburning' DC discs in Discjuggler.
It's not calibrated correctly now & won't read/write DVDs, cd's are fine though. It could be coincidental, but I don't think so.

This happened a while ago, and at this point I'd sooner replace it than open & fix it. I've seen $50 junk burners last for 2000+ writes, this one screwed the pooch at probably 150.

what do you mean by "overburning"? don't you need a registered copy to do that? I think it may be coincidental, is the burner still under warranty? I don't see how tracking a laser around would cause it to wear out faster regardless of what it's actually doing.

[Guntz]

I think it's interesting to note in this topic, I ruined a fairly new DVDRAM burner when I started 'Overburning' DC discs in Discjuggler.
It's not calibrated correctly now & won't read/write DVDs, cd's are fine though. It could be coincidental, but I don't think so.

This happened a while ago, and at this point I'd sooner replace it than open & fix it. I've seen $50 junk burners last for 2000+ writes, this one screwed the pooch at probably 150.

My DVDRAM burner is at least two years old already, not sure if this applies to recently made burners. :|


No, Neo4All/CD is better than the AES emulator. It'd still be worth a download though.


You could try downloading something from http://www.DCEvolution.net/ and see if it works. I'd recommend the NES compilation or Quake for a start.

Well I probably wouldn't need the NES emulator since I already have a ton of NES cartridges, but I guess it'd be smart to download it just to test. Still, kinda irks me that even a random homebrew disc won't burn properly.

[Knuckle Duster]

what do you mean by "overburning"? don't you need a registered copy to do that? I think it may be coincidental, is the burner still under warranty? I don't see how tracking a laser around would cause it to wear out faster regardless of what it's actually doing.

Overburning is required to burn DC games correctly. You're supposed to disable correction defaults and burn the RAW or disc-at-once with overburning enabled. Overburning dumps data on the disc where the lead out would normally be written & the farther out edge where no recording was intended.

I'm past warranty, and don't really care anyway.
It's coincidental more than likely, but it did physically start making noises and lose calibration when I started burning DC games. Thought it would be worth mentioning.

[17daysolderthannes]

Overburning is required to burn DC games correctly. You're supposed to disable correction defaults and burn the RAW disc-at-once with overburning enabled. Overburning dumps data on the disc where the lead out would normally be written & the farther out edge where no recording was intended.

I'm past warranty, and don't really care anyway.
It's coincidental more than likely, but it did physically start making noises and lose calibration when I started burning DC games. Thought it would be worth mentioning.

are you not using DiscJuggler? I never touched a single setting in DJ. just click "yes" to minimum speed and "no" to correct errors.

[Knuckle Duster]

are you not using DiscJuggler? I never touched a single setting in DJ. just click "yes" to minimum speed and "no" to correct errors.

I used DJ for .cdi images, I never touched bootdreams. Older version of DJ of course, I haven't touched the DC in over a year. Overburning was a requirement for most DC games to burn successfully back in the day.

[Guntz]

*reads above posts*

I hate burning DC games. Give me a Sega CD any day. How am I suppose to find an older version of DJ? There is no overburn option in the demo version... :shame:

[Knuckle Duster]

*reads above posts*

I hate burning DC games. Give me a Sega CD any day. How am I suppose to find an older version of DJ? There is no overburn option in the demo version... :shame:

Your problem is probably just the media you're using. Get some Sony CD-Rs

Edit:
WTF, I decided to download DJ 6 demo version and jumped to the options menu defaults tab.
"OVERBURN DISC" is right in front of you. Check box on the right side.

[Guntz]

All I have are Fujifilm and Staples brand ones, neither worked. I can't find any Sony CD-Rs. That's pretty ridiculous that only one brand works with the Dreamcast. I hate picky machines. No wonder my DC never gets any use, crazy bitch of a game console... :mad:

[Knuckle Duster]

Sure, Blame the console because you don't know how to pirate for it. :roll:

I have Fujifilm discs that work, I have sony discs that work, I have verbatim discs that work.
(Verbatim is my 1st choice on PSX, since the games didn't 'degrade' after 10 years like Memorex and booted every shot after the laser started skipping with wear.)

Read my edit, and then do us all a favor and slap yourself, seriously. I did the 'FUUUUUUUU' face when I opened the options menu.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_-_7X7DxoU-Q/SRj7A9fj9KI/AAAAAAAAADM/kBw1qxxKtzU/s320/fuuu-.png

[Guntz]

Why should I slap myself? This overburn setting was buried in the back of the program away from the options given to you when you burn an image. You can change the write mode but not overburn. Real helpful. :roll:

[TheRollingStoner]

I got my DC today and the discs I burned for it work fine, and let me tell you, I love it. DC=WIN.

[Knuckle Duster]

Why should I slap myself? This overburn setting was buried in the back of the program away from the options given to you when you burn an image. You can change the write mode but not overburn. Real helpful. :roll:

Tools > Options. (The only options menu in the program)
The window opens to the "Defaults tab." & There's a check box for "Overburn Disc."

HOW is this 'buried in the back of the program'?

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/54/do_not_want_laptop.jpg

I didn't say it would be helpful or not, just that it IS there and was required when burning back when I was into the scene. From your response though, I believe the problem you're having at this point is a pebkac situation.

[Guntz]

I just finished with another copy of Neo4ALL with Metal Slug 2. I burned a Fujifilm CD-R with overburn in DiscJuggler. No other settings disturbed. It does not work. Exact same result produced as the last time, except there was no overburn. Disc tries to spin, stops, tries to spin, stops. Barely making any noises. That makes for the fourth Neo4ALL w/MS2 Frisbee I've made.

This is gonna suck if the file didn't download correctly. That thing was damn near 500MBs and on my connection, it took a hell of a while to download.

I also don't have much else to burn for DC. I have a Sonic ROM compilation but it sucks.

[17daysolderthannes]

All I have are Fujifilm and Staples brand ones, neither worked. I can't find any Sony CD-Rs. That's pretty ridiculous that only one brand works with the Dreamcast. I hate picky machines. No wonder my DC never gets any use, crazy bitch of a game console... :mad:

It's not just Sony, I burned plenty of games successfully with imation discs and they're supposed to be the worst of the worst. I just cited Sony b/c they're pretty nice discs.


I got my DC today and the discs I burned for it work fine, and let me tell you, I love it. DC=WIN.

Another happy customer.

I think there's something wrong with Guntz's burner. Hey Guntz, why not see if you have a friend with a newer computer and try it on theirs? I don't think they would mind if you brought it over on a flash drive and installed DiscJuggler real quick just to burn a disc. Did you try blowing out your own CD Burner with canned air? Burning a disc is just the same as reading the disc, if the laser is dirty, it will have problems. What kind of computer do you have, btw? some stats might help. Is it running Vista? Vista has a way of fucking up everything.

To everyone else:

hoooooly shit, check this out!

http://dcisozone.com/downloads/1660/lsd-dream-emulator.html

I'm not sure if it's an official game or not, but it isn't a US release, so it's not violating copyrights if you download it for non-profit use AFAIK.

CwDm4XbwXRA

apparently it's a super obscure Japanese PSX game converted to a Bleem! disc for DC. What.The.Fudge.

[Guntz]

It's not just Sony, I burned plenty of games successfully with imation discs and they're supposed to be the worst of the worst. I just cited Sony b/c they're pretty nice discs.

I think I have one Imation CD-R left. I'll save that once I establish what the problem is.


I think there's something wrong with Guntz's burner. Hey Guntz, why not see if you have a friend with a newer computer and try it on theirs? I don't think they would mind if you brought it over on a flash drive and installed DiscJuggler real quick just to burn a disc.

My little sister has a tower PC pre-assembled (like bought from an OEM). Maybe I'll try it on her's. It's much newer than mine. She also has Windows XP Home on it.


Did you try blowing out your own CD Burner with canned air?

Nope, because I don't have cans of air nor do I even know where to buy them. I've only ever heard of them on the internet.


Burning a disc is just the same as reading the disc, if the laser is dirty, it will have problems.

Except I've written Sega CD discs with this very same burner and had no problems. Even the Staples brand CD-Rs worked fine. The DC is just a bitch.


What kind of computer do you have, btw? some stats might help. Is it running Vista? Vista has a way of fucking up everything.

Alrighty. I have Windows XP Professional SP3. Non-OEM (made with off-the-shelf parts) so no crap on the HDD other than my own (not to mention I re-installed Windows XP at one point since owning it). The machine is 2 years old roughly. I think I have some sort of Lite-On DVDRAM burner. Have no clue why it has a Microsoft driver rather than it's own. If that's an issue I could dig around for a driver disc.

[17daysolderthannes]

you can get canned air at wal-mart in the computer section next to the CD-Rs

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=canned+air+duster&x=0&y=0

[TheRollingStoner]

I just finished with another copy of Neo4ALL with Metal Slug 2. I burned a Fujifilm CD-R with overburn in DiscJuggler. No other settings disturbed. It does not work. Exact same result produced as the last time, except there was no overburn. Disc tries to spin, stops, tries to spin, stops. Barely making any noises. That makes for the fourth Neo4ALL w/MS2 Frisbee I've made.
That's how I burned all the games I've done so far and it's worked great for me. Maybe you need to use a more modern burner or something. I wasted 2 discs so far, but I believe it was a bad image of Virtua Tennis. You probably sjould try it out on a different PC. I burned a copy of Metal Slug X, but it has a good bit of slowdown, but it's still playable. Hope you figure this out soon so you don't have too many coasters laying around.

[gamevet]

I just finished with another copy of Neo4ALL with Metal Slug 2. I burned a Fujifilm CD-R with overburn in DiscJuggler. No other settings disturbed. It does not work. Exact same result produced as the last time, except there was no overburn. Disc tries to spin, stops, tries to spin, stops. Barely making any noises. That makes for the fourth Neo4ALL w/MS2 Frisbee I've made.

This is gonna suck if the file didn't download correctly. That thing was damn near 500MBs and on my connection, it took a hell of a while to download.

I also don't have much else to burn for DC. I have a Sonic ROM compilation but it sucks.

Is it possible that you have one of the Dreamcasts that won't play a standard CD?

Try putting a music CD in there and see if it will play it.

[Guntz]

Is it possible that you have one of the Dreamcasts that won't play a standard CD?

Try putting a music CD in there and see if it will play it.

It was manufactured in June of 2000, that was a bit before the removal of MIL-CD support. It plays Music CDs and to this day, I have only gotten two homebrew discs to work.

MAMED: No ROMs appeared. Menu loaded.
Sonic ROM Compilation: All the games were glitchy. Sound skipped.

[Knuckle Duster]

If there's one major flaw about that website everyone's praising, it's that the content doesn't have any MD5 hash's for the images, unless I'm missing something?

[Christuserloeser]

It plays Music CDs and to this day, I have only gotten two homebrew discs to work.

That means that you got a MIL-CD compatible Dreamcast.



I burned a copy of Metal Slug X, but it has a good bit of slowdown, but it's still playable.

That's why I'd recommend Neo4All/CD instead of the AES version. Both emulators use the same cores but games bigger than ~20 Mbytes (uncompressed) will slow down while the Dreamcast is loading the game's data from the disc. In addition it's noteworthy that the sound emulation isn't quite there yet so using the CD games gets rid of both of these issues.

That said, Metal Slug 2 still runs terrible, although it's probably the game itself that's to blame. It runs pretty much perfectly if you overclock the 68k emulation to 18 Mhz via the emulator's settings, and deactivate frameskip.

All in all I'd say you'd still be much better off with buying a Metal Slug collection for PS2 or Wii (or download it for Virtual Console) and stick with playing other games on Dreamcast

[Guntz]

So what's wrong then? My Burner? The disc image itself? CD-R brand? My DC's laser assembly?

I'm gonna finish downloading the parts for this big Neo4ALL set, so I'll test that. I'm also gonna give my little sister's drive one go, to see if it fixes anything. Still, my DVDRAM drive burns Sega CD games fine, what's different about DC games?

[Knuckle Duster]

So what's wrong then? My Burner? The disc image itself? CD-R brand?

I'm gonna finish downloading the parts for this big Neo4ALL set, so I'll test that. I'm also gonna give my little sister's drive one go, to see if it fixes anything. Still, my DVDRAM drive burns Sega CD games fine, what's different about DC games?

You're not configuring the burning software right.
You're using media that isn't compatible with your DC.
The image is bad.

Nobody knows, troubleshoot it.

Get a spindle and weed out the settings. Turn off buffer protection. Make sure RAW is enabled. Make sure 3rd party post-gap is enabled. Try changing between Mode 1 or Mode 2 burning. If you already have discs that work, use the same brand.

[Christuserloeser]

You might also want to give Alcohol120% a chance which is what I am using (although my version is quite a few years old by now).

And CDRWs won't work btw.

[jerry coeurl]

To everyone else:

hoooooly shit, check this out!

http://dcisozone.com/downloads/1660/lsd-dream-emulator.html

I'm not sure if it's an official game or not, but it isn't a US release, so it's not violating copyrights if you download it for non-profit use AFAIK.

CwDm4XbwXRA

apparently it's a super obscure Japanese PSX game converted to a Bleem! disc for DC. What.The.Fudge.

It was an official PSX release if that's what you mean, but I wouldn't call it a game, exactly. It's hard to describe, but really you just wander through dreamscapes, bumping into things to change your current location until 10 minutes are up, or you kill yourself (fall off a ledge, for example). Every so often really weird videos will play in the place of the gameplay segments. After each dream you are given a rating on a grid based on how Dynamic/Static or Happy/Sad the dream was.

I played LSD: Dream Emulator a lot back when I had my modded PSP, and it's not for everyone (I'm not sure you'd really like it 17days... there is no action and literally no point), but it's unlike anything else you can put in your PSX and I'd recommend that everyone try it at least once.

[17daysolderthannes]

So what's wrong then? My Burner? The disc image itself? CD-R brand? My DC's laser assembly?

I'm gonna finish downloading the parts for this big Neo4ALL set, so I'll test that. I'm also gonna give my little sister's drive one go, to see if it fixes anything. Still, my DVDRAM drive burns Sega CD games fine, what's different about DC games?

All I know is that I just burned that exact Neo4All disc you linked to on DCISOZONE and it works great. I'd say your computer is the culprit, I've burned DC games on two different computers and all it took was literally downloading the trial of DiscJuggler from the Padus website, installing it, double clicking a .cdi of a properly made file, hitting burn, saying "yes" to the speed limit, and saying "no" to "fixing the disc" if it asked. I have never touched any settings.

Homemade PCs FTL, everyone I have ever known with one has had some sort of problem, most of which are fried motherboards :shock: You'll probably have better luck on your sister's computer. Your DC may also be on it's last legs, have you tried cleaning it up, particularly the laser lense? CD-Rs are always harder to read than commercial discs, sort of like taking a clear picture is easier in the sunlight than a dimly lit room. Clean up your DC and see if that helps: alcohol on a q-tip for the lense itself, using the dry side to actually take any dirt off. Also clean the rubber ring around the spindle, I think slipping discs cause problems from time to time. Lastly, get some gawd damn canned air duster and spray that bish.

[Guntz]

You're not configuring the burning software right.
You're using media that isn't compatible with your DC.
The image is bad.

Nobody knows, troubleshoot it.

Get a spindle and weed out the settings. Turn off buffer protection. Make sure RAW is enabled. Make sure 3rd party post-gap is enabled. Try changing between Mode 1 or Mode 2 burning. If you already have discs that work, use the same brand.

According to 17days, you don't have to change any of the DiscJuggler settings. I'm thinking the image is bad. Also I only have a limited supply of CD-Rs. If this keeps up I'm gonna have wasted quite a bit of cash on these damn things. All for a system that's too good for the discs I burn for it. DC is a crazy bitch I tell you. Sega CD is nice and plays practically everything I burn for it. I love my Sega CD.


You might also want to give Alcohol120% a chance which is what I am using (although my version is quite a few years old by now).

And CDRWs won't work btw.

Now I know for a fact Alcohol has a timed trial, so that goes on my avoid list. Also what makes you think I'd be using CDRWs? I'm not that stupid. I know how to read. Besides I've been saying CD-R in this entire thread.


All I know is that I just burned that exact Neo4All disc you linked to on DCISOZONE and it works great. I'd say your computer is the culprit, I've burned DC games on two different computers and all it took was literally downloading the trial of DiscJuggler from the Padus website, installing it, double clicking a .cdi of a properly made file, hitting burn, saying "yes" to the speed limit, and saying "no" to "fixing the disc" if it asked. I have never touched any settings.

This is what makes me think KD is wrong in messing with the settings. You've obviously burned hundreds of discs and know what you're doing. KD probably doesn't.


Homemade PCs FTL, everyone I have ever known with one has had some sort of problem, most of which are fried motherboards :shock:

:roll: Homemade PCs are far cheaper than OEM and the HDD isn't polluted with crap. Not to mention all the parts are what YOU choose, not what the OEM feels like adding to cut costs. Or whatever, I could give you 101 reasons why OEM sucks but that's beside the point of the topic.


You'll probably have better luck on your sister's computer. Your DC may also be on it's last legs, have you tried cleaning it up, particularly the laser lense? CD-Rs are always harder to read than commercial discs, sort of like taking a clear picture is easier in the sunlight than a dimly lit room. Clean up your DC and see if that helps: alcohol on a q-tip for the lense itself, using the dry side to actually take any dirt off. Also clean the rubber ring around the spindle, I think slipping discs cause problems from time to time. Lastly, get some gawd damn canned air duster and spray that bish.

But all my DC games work fine and I've written Sega CD games with no problems. My Dreamcast has even been able to read extremely scratched discs (namely my Sonic Adventure 2 demo and Power Stone, though I used a disc repair-er paste on it).

[17daysolderthannes]

All I can say is try a different computer, that seems like the only possibility at this point. The Metal Slug 2 Neo4All disc from DCISOZONE works perfectly.

As for build-your-own vs. off-the-shelf computers, the problem usually isn't the fact that it's build-your-own, it's that the builder doesn't know as much as they should to choose the parts and put it together. Also, OEMs tend to engineer things to work together, build-your-owns are a crap shoot. I always see problems with custom computers I never see with OEMs. Of course, we all know Apple FTW, at least it burns my DC discs right, even when running Windows in a simulated environment :)



Back to the main topic:

dude, Sonic Adventure 2 is SOOO much more playable thanks to the Dream Explorer disc from DCISOZONE, I can just choose the Sonic levels and skip those god awful Knuckles levels! There are saves out the wazoo on this thing, totally worth it for games with shitty levels you don't want to play. It also lets you add 44 extra blocks, how can you lose!? (it says some games may not recognize the VMU, but from what I've read no one has encountered that problem).

[Iron Lizard]

Try a different Dreamcast?

[Guntz]

As for build-your-own vs. off-the-shelf computers, the problem usually isn't the fact that it's build-your-own, it's that the builder doesn't know as much as they should to choose the parts and put it together. Also, OEMs tend to engineer things to work together, build-your-owns are a crap shoot. I always see problems with custom computers I never see with OEMs. Of course, we all know Apple FTW, at least it burns my DC discs right, even when running Windows in a simulated environment :)

Well it's not like my PC was put together with the most advanced pieces of untested technology. I have a pretty slow dual core CPU in mine (2 GHz) but the video card is awesome. Could also be the drive, but like I've said before I've written tons of stuff that has worked.


dude, Sonic Adventure 2 is SOOO much more playable thanks to the Dream Explorer disc from DCISOZONE, I can just choose the Sonic levels and skip those god awful Knuckles levels! There are saves out the wazoo on this thing, totally worth it for games with shitty levels you don't want to play. It also lets you add 44 extra blocks, how can you lose!? (it says some games may not recognize the VMU, but from what I've read no one has encountered that problem).

I have played SA2 before. Well actually I played SA2B on the GameCube, but the main game is practically the same. I never had a problem with the Knuckles/Tails levels. It was usually Sonic/Shadow's that I got annoyed with sometimes. You would get stuck on the slightest thing. If you touch the walls while you're running, chances are the wall will stop you dead in your tracks. But regardless, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Also, what's Dream Explorer?


Try a different Dreamcast?

If I was gonna get another Dreamcast, it'd be a black sports edition model to go with every other console Sega made (as how it should be). Right now I don't see too many for sale, so I'll have to wait.

[MrMatthews]

I tried burning NesterDC to a disc this morning and struck out. Maybe it's my computer; maybe it's me. Either way it confirmed why I was against it to begin with. It's too complicated for as casual as my interest is in playing retro games on my DC

[Guntz]

I'd just like to know what's wrong with my setup. There can't possibly be a huge DC homebrew community if burning errors are widespread, so I probably have an anomaly somewhere. Even if I get this sorted out, I'll always call the Dreamcast a bitch. I've had this same DC for several years now and I still haven't produced a working, non-glitching homebrew disc. DC should learn some lessons from the Sega CD on the other side of the TV. ;)

[Christuserloeser]

I tried burning NesterDC to a disc this morning and struck out. Maybe it's my computer; maybe it's me. Either way it confirmed why I was against it to begin with. It's too complicated for as casual as my interest is in playing retro games on my DC

Try creating your own with this Tutorial: http://www.zshare.net/download/73489134d3697bf5/

or burn a precompiled and tested image: http://www.dcevolution.net/index.php?id=famicom_nes_edition

[17daysolderthannes]

I tried burning NesterDC to a disc this morning and struck out. Maybe it's my computer; maybe it's me. Either way it confirmed why I was against it to begin with. It's too complicated for as casual as my interest is in playing retro games on my DC

were you using a pre-made image or trying to make your own? did you use discjuggler? is your DC made before October 2000?

I don't see what's so hard about this, the DC is the easiest time I've EVER had with bootlegging, especially once I found quality sites to pull the games from and learned about DiscJuggler.

[Guntz]

I think he's talking about building your own DC discs, which is damn near impossible. I tried and let me tell you, Assembly would probably be easier. DC disc building is easily the most difficult area of disc anything I have ever tried my hand at. I couldn't even figure out how to read the damn "build a DC homebrew disc in 10 minutes" tutorials, let alone actually doing what it said. -_-;

I'm gonna try burning a Neo4ALL disc on my little sis' PC. If that doesn't work, I'll try another image. If that doesn't work, I'm just gonna assume I'm cursed somehow. I will have tried everything and nothing will have worked.

[Christuserloeser]

No, it's really easy if you were to try the above tutorial I linked to.

[Guntz]

The page doesn't load.

[17daysolderthannes]

I'm gonna try burning a Neo4ALL disc on my little sis' PC. If that doesn't work, I'll try another image. If that doesn't work, I'm just gonna assume I'm cursed somehow. I will have tried everything and nothing will have worked.

do you still have the original RAR file? try deleting your image and re-expanding it (what are you expanding it with, BTW? that could be your problem. Use the actual WinRAR program) to make sure you didn't save any changed options by mistake. Take that expanded .cdi to her computer, download discjuggler (the latest version) straight from the Padus website, install it, open the .cdi, touch no options, put in a disc, click "start", click "yes" to burning, then click "no" to fix it. If it doesn't work then, I have no idea.

[Christuserloeser]

The page doesn't load.

You mean zshare or the tutorial itself after installation ?

You have to install it to "C:\".


EDIT: Tested only in Windows XP. You will have to use the latest version of BootDreams for the actual CD compilation if you are using Vista or a 64-bit version of XP.

[Guntz]

do you still have the original RAR file? try deleting your image and re-expanding it (what are you expanding it with, BTW? that could be your problem. Use the actual WinRAR program) to make sure you didn't save any changed options by mistake. Take that expanded .cdi to her computer, download discjuggler (the latest version) straight from the Padus website, install it, open the .cdi, touch no options, put in a disc, click "start", click "yes" to burning, then click "no" to fix it. If it doesn't work then, I have no idea.

Yes I have the original .RAR file. Yes I use WinRAR. Yes I downloaded Discjuggler from Padus, yes I installed it, no I selected 'write disc image' from Discjuggler's menu because it doesn't have drive priority, yes I wrote it by clicking yes to burn and no to fix it.


You mean zshare or the tutorial itself after installation ?

You have to install it to "C:\".

Why the hell do you have to download it? If it's any sort of text document (or word processor file) it should just appear in the window.

And no the page doesn't load.

[Christuserloeser]

It's a tool set, and allow me to ask again: Which page doesn't load?


zshare or the tutorial itself after installation ?

[Guntz]

[quote=Google Chrome]This webpage is not available.

The webpage at http://www.zshare.net/download/73489134d3697bf5/ might be temporarily down or it may have moved permanently to a new web address.

More information on this error[/b]

That's what the page gives me. Or it gives me a server error of sorts.

[Guntz]

[quote=Google Chrome]This webpage is not available.

The webpage at http://www.zshare.net/download/73489134d3697bf5/ might be temporarily down or it may have moved permanently to a new web address.

More information on this error[/b]

That's what the page gives me. Or it gives me a server error of sorts.

[Knuckle Duster]

It loads for me.

Your DNS server must be a bag of shit.

[Guntz]

Or, it gives me this message. Forgot to include it in the other post:


Forbidden

You were denied access because:
Access denied by access control list.

[Guntz]

WAIT A MINUTE! Time for this thread's most epic failure yet! I completely forgot about this and have no idea why... I DID successfully burn ONE working DC game. That being the Half-Life Beta. I burned it with Imgburn just like a Sega CD game and it's on an Imation disc. This is the ONLY DC CD-R I've ever burned that actually worked properly!

I feel like a complete and utter moron right now and I greatly apologize for the stupid questions I've been asking constantly. Seriously, I completely forgot about this damn game. I didn't even realize I had it in my CD tower. I have no clue why I forgot about it. WHY THE HELL DID I FORGET ABOUT HALF-LIFE?!?

http://www.dembot.net/images/facepalm/double_trek_facepalm.jpg

Speaking of Half-Life, does this game support the DC Keyboard and Mouse? I have trouble playing this game with the regular controller. It's like trying to write on paper with your non-dominant hand. It feels extremely awkward controlling the view with the left stick while moving with the face buttons.

[17daysolderthannes]

Yes I have the original .RAR file. Yes I use WinRAR. Yes I downloaded Discjuggler from Padus, yes I installed it, no I selected 'write disc image' from Discjuggler's menu because it doesn't have drive priority, yes I wrote it by clicking yes to burn and no to fix it.


there's your problem, fix drive priority so you just have to hit start, or try your sister's computer like we've all been telling you to.

[Guntz]

Yeah, good point. The program with .cdi priority is PowerISO of all things. It can't even read the damn things. Gonna fix that pronto. I just figured what's the difference between choosing "write an image to disc" from the program's menu and double clicking on the image itself with Discjuggler priority.

[Guntz]

Hurray! It works! Finally! Thanks a ton 17days! I used a Staples CD-R and it works just fine. No graphical errors or anything! I played through Mission 1 (1CCing of course. MS2 is my favorite Metal Slug) and nothing went wrong. :D I didn't have the sound turned on though because it's REALLY late and people are trying to sleep. I'll check that in the morning. Still, thank you very much for all your help 17days!

Have a question about Neo4ALL though. I played MS2 without touching any setting and on my CRT, the text at the bottom of the screen (credits and stuff) is half visible. Is this fixable in Neo4ALL or is it just like that?

[TheRollingStoner]

http://houseofdoom.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/yay.jpg

[17daysolderthannes]

Hurray! It works! Finally! Thanks a ton 17days! I used a Staples CD-R and it works just fine. No graphical errors or anything! I played through Mission 1 (1CCing of course. MS2 is my favorite Metal Slug) and nothing went wrong. :D I didn't have the sound turned on though because it's REALLY late and people are trying to sleep. I'll check that in the morning. Still, thank you very much for all your help 17days!

Have a question about Neo4ALL though. I played MS2 without touching any setting and on my CRT, the text at the bottom of the screen (credits and stuff) is half visible. Is this fixable in Neo4ALL or is it just like that?

I wanna say you can adjust the screen in the settings before you boot the game, but I can't remember. If not, then probably not. I think all of my stuff is on screen though...?

One thing to note on Metal Slug 2: you can enable overclocking and remove much of the slowdown at the expense of framerate when things get hairy (always leave frameskip on auto). Metal Slug 1 runs awesome though, probably as good as an actual Neo CD. These Neo4All discs are pretty damn nice for someone without a PC video out or an actual Neo Geo or PS2 with a compilation disc.

Good to know drive priority was the problem, I'll add that to the mental checklist when helping people troubleshoot DC game burning.

I just made an awesome CD binder for all of my CD-Rs last night. It has the DC logo and name on the cover and spine and a picture of a DC with the top cover taken off on the back. Inside I've got 8 CDs-per-sheet CD sleeves I bought in a 25 pack from Amazon for ~$17 (Vault brand if you're wondering). It makes it super nice to organize your games rather than trying to shuffle through a spindle one at a time. I highly recommend sorting by genre rather than alphabetical to save yourself trouble every time you burn a new game (fighters, FPS, space shooter, beat em up, racing, etc.).

[Guntz]

I wanna say you can adjust the screen in the settings before you boot the game, but I can't remember. If not, then probably not. I think all of my stuff is on screen though...?

One thing to note on Metal Slug 2: you can enable overclocking and remove much of the slowdown at the expense of framerate when things get hairy (always leave frameskip on auto). Metal Slug 1 runs awesome though, probably as good as an actual Neo CD. These Neo4All discs are pretty damn nice for someone without a PC video out or an actual Neo Geo or PS2 with a compilation disc.

Alright, sounds good. Yeah I find a few things are a bit choppy on Overclock, but it's fine. I also don't really mind the credits not being shown since I die very seldom, but it can be a pain for less experienced players that need to know how many lives or credits they have left.


Good to know drive priority was the problem, I'll add that to the mental checklist when helping people troubleshoot DC game burning.

I used the wrong term, sorry. It's file association priority.

[Knuckle Duster]

Alright, sounds good. Yeah I find a few things are a bit choppy on Overclock, but it's fine. I also don't really mind the credits not being shown since I die very seldom, but it can be a pain for less experienced players that need to know how many lives or credits they have left.



I used the wrong term, sorry. It's file association priority.

File association priority should be absolutely irrelevant, considering the software opens defaults & locks the drive with full access when burning a disc. I say your burner & media is flakey, but you lucked out and the stars aligned for you using the same settings with a random disc.

My DVDRAM burner did the same thing, I had burned 4 copies of Ikaruga identically & had only 2 of them boot. One of them taking about a minute to boot initially before working indefinitely. It again could be a fault of the burner itself considering it failed, but you never know.

You said you're using a DVDRAM burner too, right? They're not the same as typical DVD Recorders & this could be the issue.

If you get some more discs, Try burning more stuff to confirm it. :ok:

[Guntz]

File association priority should be absolutely irrelevant, considering the software opens defaults & locks the drive with full access when burning a disc. I say your burner & media is flakey, but you lucked out and the stars aligned for you using the same settings with a random disc.

No, you don't understand. The .CDI format was set to open with PowerISO, that's file association. I was too lazy to switch the association so I just selected "burn disc image" from Discjuggler's menu. I never did that for any disc besides the latest one and this last one worked.


My DVDRAM burner did the same thing, I had burned 4 copies of Ikaruga identically & had only 2 of them boot. One of them taking about a minute to boot initially before working indefinitely. It again could be a fault of the burner itself considering it failed, but you never know.

Well that's rather odd. :|


You said you're using a DVDRAM burner too, right? They're not the same as typical DVD Recorders & this could be the issue.

Yeah I have a DVDRAM drive. Not too sure what the difference is but you could be onto something. I don't know of anybody with a regular one though.


If you get some more discs, Try burning more stuff to confirm it. :ok:

I thought I said I had a whole spindle of Staples CD-Rs. I was told those were crap so I mentioned that I had a few Fujifilm discs and only one Imation CD-R. It seems Staples brand works just fine, so I can burn for quite a while before needing more! :D

[Knuckle Duster]

No, you don't understand. The .CDI format was set to open with PowerISO, that's file association. I was too lazy to switch the association so I just selected "burn disc image" from Discjuggler's menu. I never did that for any disc besides the latest one and this last one worked.

File association is handled by the operating system, it has no effect on the burning software other than open it to use the configured defaults associated 'in the program' for use with the file type.

Giving it permission to become a default program that executes a file extension in windows, is irrelevant to the software's function. Even being 'not the default' the software still gets full hardware access to the IDE controller and locks the drive to burn the disc. There's no overhead, there's no PowerISO interference. The only reason I can see this happening in your case, is improperly configured DJ software. (for the burn image function) Or bad hardware/media.

[Guntz]

File association is handled by the operating system, it has no effect on the burning software other than open it to use the configured defaults associated 'in the program' for use with the file type.

Giving it permission to become a default program that executes a file extension in windows, is irrelevant to the software's function. Even being 'not the default' the software still gets full hardware access to the IDE controller and locks the drive to burn the disc. There's no overhead, there's no PowerISO interference. The only reason I can see this happening in your case, is improperly configured DJ software. (for the burn image function) Or bad hardware/media.

When I wrote a CDI image by selecting "write disc image" from Discjuggler's menu, the advanced options were faded and couldn't be selected. When I double clicked the CDI image in question, those options became usable. I think there's a difference between burning a generic disc image and a specific one (CDI).

I'll write some more disc to prove whether there is any difference or not. All I know is I wrote like 4 Metal Slug 2 discs and they didn't work. Then I did EXACTLY what 17days said, which included double clicking on the CDI image (and selecting Overburn like you said) and it worked on the first try.

[17daysolderthannes]

When I wrote a CDI image by selecting "write disc image" from Discjuggler's menu, the advanced options were faded and couldn't be selected. When I double clicked the CDI image in question, those options became usable. I think there's a difference between burning a generic disc image and a specific one (CDI).

I'll write some more disc to prove whether there is any difference or not. All I know is I wrote like 4 Metal Slug 2 discs and they didn't work. Then I did EXACTLY what 17days said, which included double clicking on the CDI image (and selecting Overburn like you said) and it worked on the first try.

I don't think overburn is necessary on most (or all) DC discs unless otherwise stated. If my sources are correct, it basically just writes over portions normally used for lead out on audio discs and would only be necessary if you actually needed the space. Therefore, I don't really think it makes a difference if the data runs out before it reaches that segment, but whatever, I've never done it.

[Guntz]

I think I'm gonna download the following. Should be a good start to the ol' DC collection:

Dreamcast VMU Explorer
http://www.snesorama.us/board/showthread.php?t=13901

4x4 Evolution:
http://snesorama.us/board/showpost.php?p=189017&postcount=5

Fatal Fury - Mark of the Wolves:
http://www.snesorama.us/board/showthread.php?t=5635

Sonic Adventure 2:
http://www.snesorama.us/board/showthread.php?t=1200

Neo4ALL/AES - 2 Disc Set:
http://www.snesorama.us/board/showthread.php?t=46255

Metal Slug Neo4ALL:
http://dcisozone.com/downloads/1212/Metal-Slug-(Neo4All).html

Also have some questions:

1: What games or homebrew would you recommend downloading? I've heard some mixed thoughts on Marvel Vs. Capcom 2. How about Jet Grind Radio? What's that all about?

2: Were any of the PSX Final Fantasies 'Bleemed'?

3: Is there a list of all known systems currently emulated on DC? I have no use for NesterDC as I have too many NES carts as it is.

[Knuckle Duster]

There is no 'DC collection' to be seen in downloading and burning discs.

Get a copy of Skies of Arcadia & Grandia 2 is you want a JRPG like Final Fantasy.
Check out Rez, Ikaruga, Record of Lodoss War

The Dreamcast can't emulate SNES at full speed, it's close but not there. Similarly the Xbox can't emulate PSX full speed yet is close.

[Guntz]

There is no 'DC collection' to be seen in downloading and burning discs.

I know but I've been doing the same with Sega CD. Burn a few games and buy a few games.


Get a copy of Skies of Arcadia & Grandia 2 is you want a JRPG like Final Fantasy.
Check out Rez, Ikaruga, Record of Lodoss War

Okay. I already looked at Record of Lodoss War and it's only single player. That's a deal breaker with Diablo clones for me.


The Dreamcast can't emulate SNES at full speed, it's close but not there. Similarly the Xbox can't emulate PSX full speed yet is close.

Are the games with chip enhancements not emulated yet? Just the regular carts?

[Knuckle Duster]

Are the games with chip enhancements not emulated yet? Just the regular carts?

As far as I know, everything is emulated.

The performance is like 90% of normal speed though, it's playable but still sucks.

[Guntz]

It doesn't really matter too much anyway. I have plenty of SNES carts including my favorite, Starfox!

So you don't have much to recommend? Where's 17days when you need him?

[Knuckle Duster]

So you don't have much to recommend? Where's 17days when you need him?

Well if you want more awesome games, check out:

Power Stone
Gunbird 2
Grand Theft Auto 2
Resident Evil Code Veronica
Shenmue
Armada
ChuChu Rocket
Illbleed
Mr Driller
Project Justice
Ready 2 Rumble Boxing
Tokyo Extream Racer
Sega GT
Virtua Fighter 3
NHL 2K
Ultimate Fighting Championship
Sword of the Berserk
Daytona USA

It's not like Dreamcast recommendations are hard to find around here, and a majority of the games on the system are excellent.

http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8214

http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8060

http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7768

[17daysolderthannes]

I posted a long ass list of games in the Saturn vs. DC thread, check that out.

[Knuckle Duster]

That website is balls.

Corrupt images are a dime a dozen.

[17daysolderthannes]

That website is balls.

Corrupt images are a dime a dozen.



What website? Dcisozone? Everything works fine for me. Same with coolrom and snesorama. Only f355 challenge has been screwing up for me.

[16-bit]

Can someone give me some help with getting the Neo Geo CD emulator to work?

I have some Neo Geo CD games that I want to play on my Dreamcast and when I downloaded a supposed preconfigured file it wouldn't load my games.



1- Extract NeoGeo CD data track and add 1st_read.bin, config.cfg and splash.bmp (edit it for customizing).

2- Add 'neocd.bin' (NEOGEO/CD Bios file image).

2- Rebuild data track with all data.

3- Toast data track and audio tracks on same cdrom session.


How do I do any of this stuff? Am I supposed to do this with Discjuggler/Alcohol120%?

[17daysolderthannes]

Can someone give me some help with getting the Neo Geo CD emulator to work?

I have some Neo Geo CD games that I want to play on my Dreamcast and when I downloaded a supposed preconfigured file it wouldn't load my games.



How do I do any of this stuff? Am I supposed to do this with Discjuggler/Alcohol120%?

try this:

http://www.snesorama.us/board/showthread.php?t=21870

burn with discjuggler.

if you want to just download pre-made Neo CD games, use google and type in "*name of game* snesorama neo4all" Metal Slug, Metal Slug 2, Viewpoint, Baseball Stars 2, Real Bout Fatal Fury, etc. are all accounted for. There's also Fatal Fury 3 over in the emulation section at DCISOZONE.

[16-bit]

try this:

http://www.snesorama.us/board/showthread.php?t=21870

burn with discjuggler.

if you want to just download pre-made Neo CD games, use google and type in "*name of game* snesorama neo4all" Metal Slug, Metal Slug 2, Viewpoint, Baseball Stars 2, Real Bout Fatal Fury, etc. are all accounted for. There's also Fatal Fury 3 over in the emulation section at DCISOZONE.

Is the bios that this emulator configured with north American? The games I'm trying to run are Japanese and they don't seem to work, even if I do change the region.

[17daysolderthannes]

Is the bios that this emulator configured with north American? The games I'm trying to run are Japanese and they don't seem to work, even if I do change the region.

oh, no idea. Are you trying to run actual Neo Geo CD games rather than burned copies? Ironically, IIRC, it only works with CD-R copies rather than original games, go figure.

Personally, if they have them in the master list, I'd just download a pre-made Neo4All disc.

http://snesorama.us/board/showpost.php?p=345319&postcount=4

(I know that is a hazy link in terms of acceptability, but Neo Geo CD owners have no easily accessible means of creating them themselves. For legal purposes, only owners of respective Neo CD games should follow the links on the forum page provided)

[Guntz]

All NEO-GEO consoles are region free (MVS, AES, CD. Hell even Pocket/Pocket Color), so there might be something wrong with the games themselves. Are you using Neo CD masters (AKA original retail copies)? Do you own a real Neo CD console to test them on?

Also, Neo4ALL (well, the one I have with Metal Slug 2 pre-loaded) can be set to USA, EURO or JPN, so you'll be covered.

[Christuserloeser]

Can someone give me some help with getting the Neo Geo CD emulator to work?

I have some Neo Geo CD games that I want to play on my Dreamcast and when I downloaded a supposed preconfigured file it wouldn't load my games.

Here's a precompiled CD image: http://depositfiles.com/files/qy2wjanzo

Burn this with DiscJuggler or Alcohol120% or BootDreams.

Some original CDs might not work due to the fact that they are copy protected and thus won't be recognized by the Dreamcast (My original copy of Pulstar works perfectly, while Sengoku 2 isn't recognized.)
Use your PC's CD/DVD drive to create a backup prior playing them in the emulator.

[Guntz]

Neo CDs had copy protection? Maybe it was for a few games like you said. I don't remember Neo CD too well at all.

[17daysolderthannes]

Neo CDs had copy protection? Maybe it was for a few games like you said. I don't remember Neo CD too well at all.

well, based on the fact that people claim only burned copies will play on Neo4All, I guess SNK put the copy protection on the disc itself a la music CDs rather than preventing CD-R use on the system.

[Knuckle Duster]

Zero Gunner 2 is pretty fucking sweet.
WHY isn't the stick available for movement though?! Ridiculous.

[Puffy2k316]

well, based on the fact that people claim only burned copies will play on Neo4All, I guess SNK put the copy protection on the disc itself a la music CDs rather than preventing CD-R use on the system.

That's the Dreamcast's copy protection I think

[17daysolderthannes]

Zero Gunner 2 is pretty fucking sweet.
WHY isn't the stick available for movement though?! Ridiculous.

because you're supposed to play it with an arcade stick, noob.


That's the Dreamcast's copy protection I think

no, because you put the Neo CD boot disc in first, it should be no different than a Utopia boot disc, etc. Besides, DC doesn't have copy protection, remember? They relied on the GD-ROM format to keep games from being pirated.

[Puffy2k316]

I'm almost positive that the Dreamcast did have copyright protection, it was just cracked really quickly. I don't think that if you had the technology to rip a GD-Rom you could just rip it and burn it to a CD and it would work.

Actually, here's an article from 2000 (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2000/07/03/utopia_hackers_crack_dreamcast_antipiracy/) when they first cracked it.

[Knuckle Duster]

because you're supposed to play it with an arcade stick, noob.

That doesn't mean that it should be D-pad only on the standard controller. Unless there's an option in the jap menu somewhere.

[m68k]

I have a dreamcast. I just got it about 4 months ago, and its nice. When I got it however, it smelled of smoke to the worst extent. I had to take apart the entire thing and wash its components!

I just need to figure out which games to burn!

[Christuserloeser]

I'm almost positive that the Dreamcast did have copyright protection

We were talking about Neo Geo CDs, not Dreamcast.


@KD: Zero Gunner 2 is great! I'd recommend Border Down next - Some more recommendations I posted earlier:

Essentials / Starter Pack

Games I'd recommend:
REZ
shmups (http://www.dreamcast-scene.com/index.php/Main/Shmups) - All of them!
all SNK / Capcom 2D games (KOF: Dream Match 99, SSF2X, Vampire Chronicle, Puzzle Fighter, Twinkle Star Sprites, etc. pp.)
Virtua Tennis, Power Stone & Power Stone 2, Daytona USA 2001 (http://www.dreamcast-scene.com/index.php/Main/DaytonaUSA2001), Sega Rally 2, Bomberman Online, Mr. Driller, Puyo Puyo Fever, Bust-A-Move 4, Worms World Party


If you got an HDTV with VGA port, you should consider buying a Dreamcast VGA cable/adapter: http://shop.ebay.com/items/?_nkw=vga+box+dreamcast


Hidden Gems

REZ
Super Street Fighter II X for Matching Service
Vampire Chronicle for Matching Service
Super Puzzle Fighter II Turbo for Matching Service
Twinkle Star Sprites
Bangai-Oh
Power Stone (2)
Border Down
Lack of Love
Elemental Gimmick Gear
Bomberman Online
Napple Tale
Cosmic Smash
Ikaruga
Mars Matrix
Marvel vs Capcom (2)
Daytona USA 2001
Mark of the Wolves
Guilty Gear X
Jojo's Bizarre Adventure
Under Defeat
Zero Gunner 2
Outtrigger
Puyo Puyo Fever
Zombie Revenge
Trigger Heart Exelica
Last Hope

Exclusives

There is a good number of [Dreamcast] games that remain [semi-]exclusive, that are otherwise only available on handhelds or as arcade PCBs. - Actually, I think that this is an interesting topic, and you inspired me to start a list of DC exclusives:

Alien Front Online (-)
Armada (PC: Armada Online)
Bangai-O (N64, NDS)
Blue Stinger (-)
Border Down (-)
Cannon Spike (-)
Cosmic Smash (-)
D2 (-)
Daytona USA 2001 (-)
[DUX (-)]
Dynamite Deka 2 (-)
Elemental Gimmick Gear (-)
Giga Wing / Giga Wing 2 (-)
Heavy Metal Geomatrix (-)
JoJo's Bizarre Adventure (PS1)
L.O.L.: Lack of Love (-)
Mars Matrix (-)
Mr. Driller (PS1, GBA)
Napple Tale (-)
Outtrigger (-)
Power Stone / Power Stone 2 (PSP)
Project Justice (-)
Psychic Force 2012 (-)
Q*bert (PS1)
Record of Lodoss War (-)
Red Dog (-)
[Rush Rush Rally Racing (-)]
Sega Rally 2 (PC)
Shenmue (-)
Spawn (-)
Star Lancer (PC)
Super Magnetic Neo (-)
Tech Romancer (-)
Toy Commander (-)
Toy Racer (-)
Under Defeat (-)
Vampire Chronicle (PSP)
Virtua Tennis (PC)
Wetrix (N64, PC)
Zero Gunner 2 (-)
Zombie Revenge (-)

[17daysolderthannes]

I'm almost positive that the Dreamcast did have copyright protection, it was just cracked really quickly. I don't think that if you had the technology to rip a GD-Rom you could just rip it and burn it to a CD and it would work.

Actually, here's an article from 2000 (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2000/07/03/utopia_hackers_crack_dreamcast_antipiracy/) when they first cracked it.

Even your own article confirms what I said:



Dreamcast's copy protection centres on the use of a proprietary CD-ROM format, which not only increases the amount of data a CD can hold to 1GB, but clearly marks out legitimate Dreamcast CDs from Recordable CD copies. Utopia's code presumably bypasses the console's software that rejects non-Dreamcast CDs. Of course, if the original game is bigger than the 650MB a regular CD can hold, that's a problem. But hackers reckon the solution is just a matter of pruning non-essential files like cut-scene movies.

The Dreamcast either identifies a disc as an authentic GD-ROM or as an audio disc. The way bootlegs work is by tricking the bios into thinking it's a MIL-CD (an audio disc with DC bootable data) and booting it as such and in doing so launches the CD-formatted game. If you remember those audio CDs back in the day that had multi-media add ons (usually low quality music videos, etc.), it's like that, only for Dreamcast, and they don't put any actual audio and put a full game in that data track.