Playstation 3: $500 and $600 Packages

[Melf]

Yep, open those cheeks a la goats.exe, here it comes!

$500 gets you a basic package with a 20gig HDD. NO HDMI or Wifi support.

$600 gets you a 60gig HDD and all the bells and whistles.

Hmm...



LAWWL!

Sorry, but that's just insane. No way am I paying that much for a console at launch unless it blows me whenever I snap my fingers.

[David J.]

It'll still sell like underware (microwaved) on a cold saturday morning.

[Melf]

http://pages.infinit.net/shadowld/no.gif

[Drixxel]

*pukes pants*

Oh well. I wasn't planning on buying one anyway.

*pukes pants again*

[Melf]

It gets better.

From Gamespot:


The PlayStation 3 will come in two configurations, one will have a 20GB hard drive and the other will have a 60GB hard drive. However, losing 40GB isn't the only downgrade with the 20GB version. The 20GB version, priced at $499, will not have Memory Stick, SD, or Compact Flash inputs, Wi-Fi capabilities, or any HDMI output.

This is shaping up to be a cluster fuck of epic proportions.

[j_factor]

Jeez, and I complained about Xbox 360's price. $500 minimum? I really don't see it selling well at that price. A lot of people seem to be assuming it'll sell like crazy just because PS2 was the most popular system (remember Atari? remember Sega? apparently not). I just don't see it happening. That is just too much to swallow. Unless price drops are quick, I really wouldn't be surprised to see Sony finding themselves in third place. Few people want to spend that much on a console (just look at 3DO). A lot of people balked (and continue to balk) at 360's price point, and this is just extreme.

Btw, what the fuck is with this new trend of "buy a shit version of the console, or pay $100 more for the real thing"? Lame, lame, lame.

[Melf]

Word. I'm not falling for this shit, which is why I still don't own a 360. Pick your features and sell the console. Barebones and premium packs = retard packs.

Sony just went certifiable with this though. Weren't they the ones crying "you can't have HD without HDMI!" last year? Lols.

[David J.]

...And look where the Playstation 2 Harddrive ended up.

[j_factor]

Anyone remember when Sega announced the Saturn priced at $399, and then the Sony guy went up on stage and simply said "$299" and the crowd cheered?

Nintendo needs to do that right now. Go up and just say "$199".

[Joe Redifer]

This is Sony, which means it is great! The price is almost TOO REASONABLE! Sony says they will sell 6 million of these things in the first year alone, so you really don't have any choice BUT to buy one or two! You wouldn't want to let Sony down, would you?

The whole Sony press conference was very underwhelming and kind of boring. Very few interesting games. Most Sony-made games were either a racing game or a game with a gun. B O R I N G! You could tell the crowd was very bored and extremely unimpressed as well. I loved Sony's innovative new dual shock controller. That is far too innovative for the likes of me. Anyone else notice the delay in the controller tilt to when the tilt happened onscreen? I wish I could give Sony even more money.

The new Sonic looked awful, with the camera constantly circling Sonic for no reason. Can't wait not to buy it.

[j_factor]

He's saying what we're all thinking!

[lordofduct]

Oh... what I've always dreamed... I hope these fanboys realize what Sony is doing to them!

It's just like them too, since the beginning. Suck em' in, suck em' dry, then tell them to go highend. They're now going to lose MOST of the children to college student market (which is most of it). I can't fucking wait... I CAN'T WAIT! I hate Sony, I hated the previous playstations, I hope this thing sinks like a God damn rock.



But I'm afraid it won't. People are going to buy it... and I have pity for these fuckwads.

[Obviously]

The entire press conference was horribly boring. Did anyone notice only one person clapped when their "innovative" controller was revealed? I'm going to get a head start and start calling it the "Wii-Shock."

Even the new Sonic looked like another "Adventure" as predicted and I lost it when I saw Shadow. So much for getting rid of all those useless characters in this game Sega!

The fact that Final Fantasy XIII is getting press and we don't even have XII yet totally disgusts me as well. I'm sure they knew MGS4 wasn't going to push the system alone and they figured they'd need a Final Fantasy.

I was totally underwhelmed by the whole thing as well. "Look at how many PS2's we've sold! The PSP is unrivaled (I can't believe he actually said "unrivaled" Hello Sony, are you there? The PSP is currently the outsold underdog and Nintendo's releasing an improved version of their handheld at the same pricetag as the original version). Try and differntiate this generic car+gun game/hack and slash game from the last one! Oh yeah, here's Metal Gear Solid 4 and Final Fantasy XIII!"

I didn't expect Sony to do well, but I really didn't expect them to do this poorly either. For the first time ever I'm actually considering buying an X-Box 360. Nintendo and Microsoft really have a chance to step up today. This was the most important e3 for this new generation and Sony completely blew it.

[Russman]

Ripoff 1 or Ripoff 2? Uhm, I think I'll take what's behind door number Wii.

[16bitter]

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/706/706133p1.html

E3 2006: PS3 Too Cheap -- Kutaragi
SCE boss has been talking again.
by Anoop Gantayat

May 9, 2006 - Krazy Ken's at it again. Following the surprise pre-E3 announcement of the PlayStation 3 price, Sony Computer Entertainment head Ken Kutaragi spoke with Japan's IT Media and offered up this beauty: "It's probably too cheap."

[...]

"This is the PS3 price. Expensive, cheap -- we don't want you to think of it in terms of game machines. Because the PS3 is like nothing else.

For instance, is it not nonsense to compare the charge for dinner at the company cafeteria with dinner at a fine restaurant? It's a question of what you can do with that game machine. If you can have an amazing experience, we believe price is not a problem.

When we announced the PlayStation price, it was said to be expensive. Same for the PlayStation 2. However, when released, both had sales that were unthinkable for previous game machines. This is because both offered experiences that could not be had on previous game machines.

With the PS3, you can have next generation game experiences that could previously not be experienced -- things like next generation graphics and various services via the network. And, as with the PS and PS2, we believe people who like games will, without question, purchase it."

[Drixxel]

Oh that kooky Kutaragi and his misguided vision of gaming's future. His unwavering confidence in the PS3's dominance ultimately boils down to the promise of "next-gen graphics and various services via the network." ..services for those that purchase the premium pack, perhaps.

I just finished watching it, and Nintendo's press conference this morning blew away Sony's "We're popular, look at the sales!" back pat-a-thon. I can only imagine the line-ups at Nintendo's Wii demo stations tomorrow.

Anyone else shocked at the lameness of that interactive card battle game shown off during the Sony conference?

[extrarice]

What Ken is missing is that the PS1 and PS2 were innovative. The PS3 is nothing more than "ZOMG BETTER GRAFFIX and we have Square, so ~nya!~" The market is tired of the same old thing, especially at such inflated prices. $500 for the neutered version? No thanks. Same thing for the 360. I'll be siding with the Wii.

[16bitter]

I just finished watching it, and Nintendo's press conference this morning blew away Sony's

Correction: Sony blew themselves away.


What Ken is missing is that the PS1 and PS2 were innovative.

PS1? Yes. PS2? Um...what did this thing do that the DC didn't?

What Sony has truthfully been is lucky -- their competition at launch in 1995 was an arrogant-to-the-point-of-psychosis Sega and then, 5 years later, a Sega that was all but dead financially from the first encounter.

This gen is not starting out favorably in the least for Sony. 3DO pricing against competition that is right now, or will be, on the market at a much better price.

Nintendo has the promise of innovation and a far cheaper price tag. Microsoft has comparable horse power, what will almost undoubtedly be a stronger lineup of games comparatively during the launch window, an online infrastructure that Sony still is doing little to combat and pricing structure that now looks quite decent next to what Sony's trying to force on the public.

Sony has the brand name at the moment. Probably a big enough advantage to push initial shipments of hardware. But I seriously qustion just how big the market is at a $600 baseline -- they're gonna run out of customers fast.

Sony's got stiff competition from the starting gate. This is a first.

And not from one company, but TWO.

And right now, shocking as it seems, Nintendo looks to have a major chance at becoming the market's dominant player.

[Kikoskia]

Well, if you asked me to choose between the three, I would have to say that Nintendo are currently playing things better then Sony ever did, even with the wii incident.

$500 is a lot to ask of anyone really, especially when the only real argument they give is 'We're Sony'. One only needs to look back at all the other game makers who did the same thing and got slapped in the case to realise that.

[16bitter]

Well, if you asked me to choose between the three, I would have to say that Nintendo are currently playing things better then Sony ever did, even with the wii incident.

Yeah, the name of the machine almost makes me wanna shell out $600 for the competition. :roll:


$500 is a lot to ask of anyone really, especially when the only real argument they give is 'We're Sony'.

You think that's bad? Try $600 -- also known as "reality".

The "low price" version is stripped of so much functionality that you'd have to either be a masochist or a retard to slap down five hundred and change for it.

[16bitter]

GTA will launch on a Microsoft system this time out.

Sony's looking more fucked all the time.

[extrarice]

PS1? Yes. PS2? Um...what did this thing do that the DC didn't?
Maybe innovative isn't the right word. Though it did offer DVD support, HDD support, and backwards-compatability with PS1 titles. It sold mainly for reason 1 and 3 - it was a cheap-ass DVD player and instantly had a huge library of compatible software. The DC did not (as sad as I am to say it)

[16bitter]

Maybe innovative isn't the right word. Though it did offer DVD support, HDD support, and backwards-compatability with PS1 titles. It sold mainly for reason 1 and 3 - it was a cheap-ass DVD player and instantly had a huge library of compatible software. The DC did not (as sad as I am to say it)

I was considering it purely as a gaming device.

If we step outside that, then suddenly the PS3 looks "OMFG teh innovative!!!1111!!" with BluRay. Not that BluRay is really anything more than a generational leap; one that may become as outmoded by cultural forces as Betamax, minidisc and other Sony-invested, if not outright created, format disasters.

It's also rather pathetic that when the PS2 launched no other industry leader had carried over their software base to the next gen. Well, at least not Nintendo or Sega -- Atari was before my time.

Certainly, you're right in that those two software-driven features -- even though they weren't actually dedicated to what was supposed to be the PS2's main output standard -- helped to move decks to one degree or anothere depending on region.

But I think the biggest thing Sony had going for them the last two outings is timing. Today they are F'd in the A on that front, and the ironic thing is they couldn't possibly need a head start more desperately considering pricepoint and their dependence on the Playstation brand for corporate cash flow across the board.

Which is probably why the PS3, at least partially, is so expensive -- they're trying to technologically outdo a corporate giant that has unlimited cashflow to dump into hardware, whether we're talking about R&D or the ability to eat the manufacturing costs. Sony's now Sega as far as this comparison.

They'll still murder the 360 in Japan, but if they lose the US to Microsoft (or Nintendo, for that matter) they're toast in the worldwide market anyway. Losing GTA-exclusivity was a major blow.

Nintendo might actually have the best chance to take both markets. Megaton.

[lordofduct]

A lot of systems in the past had backwards compatability. The Genny could play SMS games, the Atari of course did, the SNES was supposed to but was scrapped at the last moment.

But really; Sony is just fucking arrogant. Just like the fanboys are arrogant. This arrogance blows Sega out of the water (and atleast they had an innovative and creative group of programmers to back them).



Can anyone say 1983?

[16bitter]

A lot of systems in the past had backwards compatability. The Genny could play SMS games,

I didn't count Genesis because it required that stupid adaptor.

I figured Atari had it, but I haven't played one of their consoles since I was, oh, probably 7. I never had a clue as to which model it was.

Innovative may be a misnomer (as extrarice noted himself), but certainly backwards compatibility was a feature that two generations of console leaders messed up on before the PS2.


Can anyone say 1983?

History is repeating itself, isn't it?

Right down to Nintendo as the most likely savior of the industry.

[Obviously]

It does indeed seem like history is repeating itself from certain points of view. The industry is stagnating and Nintendo is changing everything.

I have my fingers crossed. This is the first time since the DS that I've seen something new, different, and genuinely fun looking.

If the gameplay really is as good as it looks and they get past all of the graphics-whore gamers maybe the "Wii" will be a "Revolution" after all.

I wish I could say all this without sounding like a frothing fanboy, but I really think the Wii is going to offer us something special.

[Melf]

For instance, is it not nonsense to compare the charge for dinner at the company cafeteria with dinner at a fine restaurant? It's a question of what you can do with that game machine. If you can have an amazing experience, we believe price is not a problem.

The problem is, Sony wants everyone who goes to the drive through at BK - which is most everyone - to shell out the dough for dinner at a fine restaurant. Ain't gonna happen. Those who typically pay any price for new hardware will buy it, but my guess is that the masses are going to do a double take and looks elsewhere.

And before I forget: Fuck Sony.

[Obviously]

For $600 I could upgrade my PC into a system impressive enough to out-do the PS3's graphical capabilities anyway. That's how nonsensical it is.

[Russman]

For $600 I could upgrade my PC into a system impressive enough to out-do the PS3's graphical capabilities anyway. That's how nonsensical it is.

Or to put it another way, one more applicable to console gamers, for $600 I could buy a Wii and half (8-10?)the launch games. Sony is so fucked in the head.

[j_factor]

When we announced the PlayStation price, it was said to be expensive.

Isn't this an outright lie? I already mentioned the E3 '95 incident. They got a standing ovation when they announced the Playstation price.

[j_factor]

Also, did anyone notice this little tidbit from the Playstation 3 specs?

2x blu ray drive, which means about 72 mbps of data access.

Holy crap that's slow. PS3 games are on these huge, several-gig discs, and the drive is only about 50% faster than PS2's DVD drive. That's around half the speed of 360's DVD drive! Didn't they make some comment a while back that blu ray would mean superfast data access that would totally blow away DVD technology? I predict longer load times on PS3.

[AmyDoesn'tDouche]

Oh... what I've always dreamed... I hope these fanboys realize what Sony is doing to them!

It's just like them too, since the beginning. Suck em' in, suck em' dry, then tell them to go highend. They're now going to lose MOST of the children to college student market (which is most of it). I can't fucking wait... I CAN'T WAIT! I hate Sony, I hated the previous playstations, I hope this thing sinks like a God damn rock.



But I'm afraid it won't. People are going to buy it... and I have pity for these fuckwads.

Wha Wha Wha?

Did you just call somebody else a fanboy? The only fanboy that I see is you.

Anyway, I hate two SKUS and I hate the fact that Sony is using the PS3 as a means to promote the Blu-Ray. However, they have the best developers and I will be forced into buying one, as will everybody else.

As for the Atari Reference: Games are much more popular now, they are now officially a hobby you spend money for. Hiking equipment sometimes costs in the thousands but people still buy it because it's the highest quality theres. Games are becoming more and more like that.

I don't hate Sony, I think Sony did the gaming world a favor when their system catered to story based games and I enjoyed the vast library that the ps2 had. I do believe that Sony made a few mistakes with the PS3, but people will buy as many as Sony makes because people have money and Sony has the name.

I hate to put a dent into the dreams of Sony Hating Fanboys, but it will sell well. And the gaming world will respect it (Fumitsu Ueda, Factor 5, Insomniac, Incog Inc.) more than Excite Truck.

[AmyDoesn'tDouche]

Also, as I've been reading more of this Sony bashing thread. The Wii isn't all good. Several games have been horrible for the system (notably SMB, Red Steel, Excite Truck) and to call Nintendo a savior to a growing industry (which is not stagnating, it's called PC gaming) is WAYYY off the mark. Nintendo's console will prove identical to the "innovation" (in quotes because Nintendo itself did not come up with the idea, but rather implemented existing technology) of the DS. A mixed blessing, better for some things, opening up new doors, but being downright incompetent in other areas.

I'm also tired of the fact that people seem to think that E3 means something. Aren't the Xbots fond of stating how Halo was horrible at E3 yet bloomed into a swan? Can Sony not do that? Oh yeah, it can't, because it's Sony.

What a bunch of biased fanboys you all are. The fact that even one of you is wishing death on a certain company (especially one that did many good things for the industry) is downright disgusting.

Furthermore, Sony has the highest quality developers working for it right now. Factor 5 (creators of Rogue Squadron), Fumitsu Ueda (creator of Shadow of the Colossus), Incog Inc. (creators of Twisted Metal), Insomniac (creators of ratchet and clank). These developers have some of the highest pedigree in the world of gaming, and yet you all quickly write them off as nothing?

I don't hope anybody loses this "console war". I only hope that the people who posted here pack up and leave gaming forever. We (people who appreciate games) don't need the fanboys.

[Obviously]

If there weren't fanboys then there wouldn't be console wars. If we lived in a perfect world we'd all buy every system and be happy.

Preaching against fanboys on the internet isn't ever going to get you anywhere. We've all done it at one point in time, and all we've gotten for our efforts is an all out flame war. And that's what they're looking for after all.

Personally I think the statement of Sony having the best developers is a bit subjective. I thought Shadow of the Colossus was great from an artistic standpoint but the game itself really wore on me after a while until I just couldn't get into playing it to the end. Ratchet and Clank and all modern attempts at mascot style 3D platformers don't really do anything for me, and my love afair with Twisted Metal died after the third game in the series. I agree they are great delveopers though, although Nintendo seems to be learning from the past and is supposedly rounding up some more third parties itself. Whether this is true or not remains to be seen and probably rides mostly on the Wii's success or failure at launch.

Excite Truck does look like an abysmal arcade racer, but as always Nintendo is promising quality with their more recognizable first party franchises. Whether you like it or not, Zelda, Metroid, and Super Mario and Super Smash Brothers are going to move systems. I believe Ubisoft's Red Steel COULD be an interesting title but apparently people were having some trouble with the controls. It's still early and things can change for all three consoles and Nintendo really emphasized that the controller wasn't quite finished yet. I hope it works out, because I really think playing first person shooter's with the Wii's control scheme would be fantastic. I love light gun shooters and traditional first person shooters and Red Steel and Metroid Prime 3 kind of combine them in a way.

I don't want Sony to fail, they've done a lot for gaming over the past decade, and to be brutally honest they won't because they still have unwavering support. From a personal and financial standpoint, I really can't get behind the PS3 right now. I don't like that they're pushing Blu ray on us this early and as a college student I can't afford an "investment" like the PS3 as Ken Kutagari put it. I like you Sony, but not that much. I mean when even the daily news paper of my small, rural, central PA town runs an article about how ridiculously expensive the PS3 is, you know you're charging a bit more than the average person is willing to pay. Sony's going straight for the hardcore gamer and the hardcore fan and no one else and I'm not sure that's in their best interests if they want a growing industry to continue to grow.

I also think it's kind of funny that the talented developers that you mentioned aren't going to get the spotlight on the PS3. It'll go to Konami and Square-Enix for Metal Gear Solid 4 and Final Fantasy XIII, neither of which am I interested in at all since I don't care for either series. It's the same with Nintendo's franchises though. The truly great and unique titles will remain in the background until someone who matters discovers them.

In my perfect world people will play the systems and games they want to play, and stop badmouthing the others. I make criticisms and praises, and I'll be biased at times because everyone is biased in one way or another with all things, but don't take my interest in the Wii and my less than excited feelings about the PS3 as fanboyism.

[j_factor]

Furthermore, Sony has the highest quality developers working for it right now. Factor 5 (creators of Rogue Squadron), Fumitsu Ueda (creator of Shadow of the Colossus), Incog Inc. (creators of Twisted Metal), Insomniac (creators of ratchet and clank). These developers have some of the highest pedigree in the world of gaming, and yet you all quickly write them off as nothing?

Those developers aren't nothing, but they're hardly the highest quality developers in the industry. Incog and Insomniac are both pretty much one-trick ponies. As much as I liked them, Ueda was only really responsible for two games. The developer of WipEout is probably more of an asset.

Regardless, I don't think most people really consider a developer like Insomniac to be of a higher pedigree than, say, HAL.


The fact that even one of you is wishing death on a certain company (especially one that did many good things for the industry)

I think it's a stretch to say that Sony did many good things for the industry. Just because people bought their consoles doesn't mean they were doing the industry a favor.

[lordofduct]

Wha Wha Wha?

Did you just call somebody else a fanboy? The only fanboy that I see is you.


Ummm... I'm not sure if you understand my cynacism.

Being a fanboy would assume I obsess over some other console and hate all others because it isn't that brand (i.e. Sega fanboy... which I was in 5th grade.... 13 years ago). I am more just anti-rape the middle class. It's not like I just dislike playstation... I dislike Sony. Everything Sony. I hate Sony Xplod, Sony STR, Sony speakers, the Walkman trademark, SONY! Crap products at an exorbitant price.

[GeckoYamori]

Nobody's really forcing you to buy their hardware.

I stopped buying Sony products a few years ago, rarely have I gotten anything from them that hasn't malfunctioned.

[Joe Redifer]

I've found that many (not all) Sony products seem to have built-in obsolescence. They seem to break down and develop problems at a much higher per-capita than many other well-known name brand electronics manufacturers. However I have found that Sony does make a good TV. My HDTV is a Sony. Supposedly the best CRT ever made. Perfect? No. But damn good even if it can't draw a straight line to save its life. I've always had good luck with Sony TVs. But I don't know anybody (personally) whose PS1 and PS2 hasn't failed on them at some point.

For the PS3 I think the hardware will be good and the capabilities awesome, even if most games still run at 30fps and we keep seeing the same ol' glut of first person shooters and lap-based racing games. But they are trying to do with BluRay what they did with DVD, and the consumer interest for something like BluRay just isn't there. BluRay is 100% useless unless you have an HDTV. It's not going to sell buttloads of systems like DVD helped sell the PS2. This alone is why the system currently costs so much. I know of very few games that take up all 8.6 available gigs on a standard dual layer DVD. In time, more memory will be necessary, but right now isn't the time for BluRay. They are pushing it way too soon. PS3 will sell better than the 3DO, but people aren't going to want to spend that much on a game system. The mainstream gamer will shun it. It'll have a great launch just like any system where the hardcore will buy all the units, but can you see little Jimmy coaxing his parents into buying a $500 system? Do you think BluRay will persuade them? I don't. Sony is overestimating themselves. Personally I think it will be very entertaining to see how the PS3 does in it's first two or so years.

[Melf]

Also, as I've been reading more of this Sony bashing thread. The Wii isn't all good. Several games have been horrible for the system (notably SMB, Red Steel, Excite Truck) and to call Nintendo a savior to a growing industry (which is not stagnating, it's called PC gaming) is WAYYY off the mark. Nintendo's console will prove identical to the "innovation" (in quotes because Nintendo itself did not come up with the idea, but rather implemented existing technology) of the DS. A mixed blessing, better for some things, opening up new doors, but being downright incompetent in other areas.
What's so innovative about the PS3 though? It has an online component it ripped off from MS, and a controller it ripped off from Nintendo. They then packaged it all up in an overpriced console who's lower-end model isn't even upgradeable with their own products!

Nobody's bashing Sony as a software developer. We're bashing them as the arrogant blowhards they are, which is the same thing that happened when Nintendo and Sega's heads got too big. Have you heard the stupid shit Ken K has been spouting? Get a second job to buy a PS3? It's priced too cheap? Fanboys aren't the one's bashing that bullshit, they're the one's defending it.


I'm also tired of the fact that people seem to think that E3 means something. Aren't the Xbots fond of stating how Halo was horrible at E3 yet bloomed into a swan? Can Sony not do that? Oh yeah, it can't, because it's Sony.
You're comparing a game that was months from completion with finalized hardware that's been priced. Apples and oranges friend, or do you expect there to be any price and hardware changes to the PS3 from here to November?


What a bunch of biased fanboys you all are. The fact that even one of you is wishing death on a certain company (especially one that did many good things for the industry) is downright disgusting.
What has Sony done for the industry that any other company wouldn't have done had they been #1? Seriously, I'm curious. And who's wishing death on them? I said I wasn't going to buy their overpriced console. That's my right, and I suspect it will be the attitude of a lot of gamers come Christmas.


Furthermore, Sony has the highest quality developers working for it right now. Factor 5 (creators of Rogue Squadron),
What have they done since the incredibly mediocre Rebel Strike? What else have they done but RS games lately at all?


Fumitsu Ueda (creator of Shadow of the Colossus),
Critically acclaimed, sold like shit.


Incog Inc. (creators of Twisted Metal),
What else have they done of merit?


Insomniac (creators of ratchet and clank).
One-trick pony whose latest idea for innovation is to make the fourth game in the series more like the first two!


These developers have some of the highest pedigree in the world of gaming, and yet you all quickly write them off as nothing?
These are all decent developers, but you'd have to be certifiably nuts to think that any of those games will counteract the sales monster that will be Halo 3. Like it or not, this game alone will likely sell more copies than the latest entries in all those series you mentioned combined. Halo 3 is a system seller, those games are not. Add the fact that the next GTA will launch on the 360 at the same time as on the PS3 and you cannot deny that Sony has taken two big blows this E3. Moreover, aside from MGS4, did Sony even show anything of note? I can't honestly think of any one PS3 game that caught my eye, yet I can name at least 4 for 360 and Wii that look great.


I don't hope anybody loses this "console war". I only hope that the people who posted here pack up and leave gaming forever. We (people who appreciate games) don't need the fanboys.
Now you're just being silly!

[Joe Redifer]

Have you heard the stupid shit Ken K has been spouting? Get a second job to buy a PS3? It's priced too cheap?
I've heard the "priced too cheap" comment but the "get a second job" really takes the cake. In case Kenny-poo hasn't noticed, many people these days are having a tough time fiding a decent first-job to live on! Second jobs all around for everybody! What a wonderful human being. :roll:


Fanboys aren't the one's bashing that bullshit, they're the one's defending it.
That is a great quote. If I believed in having a signature on each and every one of my posts, that would be part of it.



Incog Inc. (creators of Twisted Metal),

What else have they done of merit?
If they created Twisted Metal, then they did the first Warhawk on the PS1 I believe. I enjoyed Warhawk. However I have always hated Twisted Metal with a passion. I have never had even one enjoyable moment with that crap series.

[Obviously]

Square-Enix is developing for all three platforms now and Konami started putting Metal Gear back on the Nintendo with Twin Snakes for the Gamecube and now SSBB though admittedly a cameo appearance. If we see exclusives or ports on other systems for these franchises that's taking away some of the largest draws that Sony has right now. Most of the titles I want for the PS3 are going to be on the cheaper 360 which will probably have another price drop come Christmas depending on what Nintendo prices the Wii at.

I just don't see what Sony is trying to prove, I really don't. Bill Gates has told off many people who support BluRay this early on and I think Sony is going learn why he's become the richest man in the world.

I need gasoline and food more than I need a PS3 or a Wii or a 360 however and I'll probably be bargain bin grabbing PS2 and Gamecube games for a long time before I actually jump to the next generation but when I do I'll be buying the system that will give me the most enjoyment for my dollar whichever that may be when it comes time for me to upgrade.

[AmyDoesn'tDouche]

Again, further Sony bashing by fanboys. Before I go on, I would like to talk more about this concept.

Bashing anything (especially before it's been released) is the definition of being a fanboy. Not tolerating opposing views because you dislike a certain company is also being a fanboy. There's a difference in making an educated guess and laughing at a hopeful demise of a company you despise for reasons subjective. Melf and Kiwi Savior can talk all they want about not being fanboy, but both have exhibited behavior of being a fanboy. In fact, the term "bashing" is a fanboy term. In fact, any time you throw away the rules of debate you are a fanboy. Melf and Kiwi Saviour have both demonstrated this behavior, therefore you are acting like fanboys.

Secondly, about the pedigree. It means two things, the first being that they have a game library that's extensive and critically acclaimed, the second being that they have pull and respect.

Insomniac is not a one trick pony in any sense of the word. Ratchet and Clank has been a constantly evolving series that has been different game to game. Each game has been different and improved upon (up to 3). To say that Ratchet and Clank is a one trick pony is really ignorant. They've made a platformer transform into a combat game, all of which are high quality. Also, Insomniac has created Spyro on playstation and the cult classic Disruptor, considered one of the best fps made for a console. Saying one trick pony in this instance epitomizes utter ignorance.

Incog Inc. (formerly known as Single Trac) have developed Warhawk, TWisted Metal 1 and 2 (they did NOT develop TW 3 and 4), Jet Moto series, Downhill Domination, Twisted Metal Black, Downhill Domination, War of the Monsters. Incog inc. has an up and down record, but to say that they've only done one good game (or series) is laughable. What's more, with the exception of TWisted Metal Small Brawl every singe one of their games has been decent.

Factor 5, on the other hand, is one of the biggest reasons why the gamecube's audio is in existence. This company has been treated to one of the biggest franchises of all time and has usually produced top notch products. They are respected in both the technical and creative fields.

Fumitsu Ueda has created both Ico and SOTC. His next game will be fantastic.

Furthermore, Insomniac's credo of team committment is the most beautiful thing I've ever seen in a game company. Their take no credit commitment to quality should be respected by every single person touching digital or creative media.

If you wish to contend with any of my assertions. Read up on each company and find that they have a long standing pedigree. I did not pull these names out of my asshole, as I could've up put up dozens of other companies, but these are all some of the most accomplished developers out there. In fact, I challenge some one to name me a wholly better developer (don't say Blizzard).

Finally, the reason why I consider everything stated here as a bit biased and fanboyish is that people here are happy that Sony is failing. People are happy that a game company is falling down. While the notion that a showing at E3 could affect sales in the most mathematically insignificant way is itself utterly absurd, I find this hatred appalling, especially from a community like this.

Play the devil's advocate instead of jumping on a bandwagon. What happens if the PS3 has technically superior games? Several people that I've seen and talked to have said that Sony has had the best looking games. What happens if the controller combines the best elements of what microsoft and nintendo had? What happens when 3 years down the line they find out how to program in 1080p. Will the xbox 360 even be able to compare?

The only thing I got from this thread was "GTA on xbox 360 and Halo 3 means death for the tyrant!" When GTA is on the ps3 and Halo 3 will not coincide with the launch date of the PS3. You think halo is a big name? What about Gran Turismo, What about Final Fantasy, What about Metal Gear Solid 4, What about Tekken? These were the games THAT MADE THE PS2 THE BEST SELLING CONSOLE IN HISTORY IN THE FIRST PLACE.

I'm tired of useless and hateful predictions. I'm critical of two skus, I'm critical of the controller, I'm critical of some of the decisions Sony made in regards to it's online plan, but I'm also not stupid enough to write them off as quickly as some of you are.

I'm sorry Melf, fanboys ARE those who bash. You are the embodiement of a scornful, naive, and frankly immature fanboy.

If anybody else would like to converse on the matter in a non hateful and less subjective way then I would be happy to discuss. However, when people contest established developers and companies in intrinsic ways, conversation is hard to keep.

I've yet to touch a PS3 controller. And I know that of every generation, Sony has made the best console to buy. I will not judge, I will not predict, and I will not be an unwelcoming jerk.

[Obviously]

I don't know if I'd use the term "most accomplished" for the developers you've mentioned. Most accomplished applies to companies that have been around since the dawn of gaming and helped to shape gaming.

When I think of "most accomplished" I'd say (no particular order) Capcom, Square, Konami, Sega, Nintendo, Atari, Blizzard (said it anyway!), Electronic Arts, SNK, Activision, Sony, Microsoft... the list goes on and on. Not all of them may be as hot as they once were but they're the ones that shaped the industy. The developers you've mentioned have mostly sprung up in recent years with a few exceptions. I really don't consider any of the Twisted Metal games to be the greatest games of all time though, I'd sooner play one of the Vigilante games or Interstate 76 personally. Also I had a lot more fun with Metal Arms that I did with Ratchet and Clank which is also a mix of platforming and action (though this was probably because Metal Arms is a lot more difficult and too many developers just don't make difficult games anymore)

I really don't think think the developers you mentioned can really be called "most accomplished" over the big names because they simply aren't. They're great assets to gaming but they're not the "most" of anything. They're in the same leauge as everyone else, hell even Electronic Arts has the ability to come out with a great title like they used to in their prime before they became the unfriendly monster they are today.

I mean if you're going to go yelling at people being fanboys, you're not really helping your arguement by putting your favorite developers on a pedetal and challening people to say why their favorite developers are better. It's really just perpetuating the arguement. Personally Treasure is one of my favorite development houses (Who did the "team effort" thing of Insomniac long before Insomniac ever existed and yes it is a wonderful thing). Other people think they're overrated and that's fine, I think Fumitsu Ueda's work, as beautiful as it is, is overrated. That's my opinion. You're stating your opinions as fact, as if the developers you've named are without a doubt the best in the business. In that way you're really not practicing what you preach.

There's different points of view to everything, and I think everyone here has given you solid reasons for their likes and dislikes and their own predictions. At the end of the day predictions from forum goons or even respected journalists don't really matter now do they? So why let them get under your skin and yell at a forum full of people who aren't going to change their minds simply because you want them to? This is the internet, the chance of any well thought out post you make enlightening someone enough to change their opinion is slim to none.

[Joe Redifer]

What happens when 3 years down the line they find out how to program in 1080p. Will the xbox 360 even be able to compare?
Not at all! The Xbox 360 will be CRUSHED just like the PS2 was CRUSHED when the Xbox 1, Gamecube, and even Dreamcast had a much higher amount of games that displayed in 480p and higher when the majority of PS2 games were stuck in 480i only. :roll: Seriously, the Xbox 360 will be fine even if every single PS3 game supports 1080p.


Will the xbox 360 even be able to compare?

And I know that of every generation, Sony has made the best console to buy.
Those comments are subjective, and could easily be interpreted as fanboy-ish. Watch out!


Factor 5, on the other hand, is one of the biggest reasons why the gamecube's audio is in existence.
#1: I'm sure the Gamecube would have had audio if it had not been for Factor 5's involvement.
#2: The Gamecube has the worst audio capabilities of the 3 current-generation systems. That is not a subjective opinion, it is fact. Even the PS2 can do limited discrete surround with the use of DTS 4.0 and it can do full Dolby Digital 5.1 during cut-scenes. The Gamecube does not even include a digital audio output and if it did it would be limited to two channels (it can be modded for digital audio out). Dolby Pro Logic II is a matrixed format and simply cannot compare to the likes of real Dolby Digital, and I am more than qualified on this subject matter.

[Melf]

Bashing anything (especially before it's been released) is the definition of being a fanboy. Not tolerating opposing views because you dislike a certain company is also being a fanboy. There's a difference in making an educated guess and laughing at a hopeful demise of a company you despise for reasons subjective. Melf and Kiwi Savior can talk all they want about not being fanboy, but both have exhibited behavior of being a fanboy. In fact, the term "bashing" is a fanboy term. In fact, any time you throw away the rules of debate you are a fanboy. Melf and Kiwi Saviour have both demonstrated this behavior, therefore you are acting like fanboys.
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but it was you who threw out the term "bashing" first. I frankly don't see what you mean by "not tolerating opposing views," since I have never said that those who favor the PS3 or anything Sony are wrong, ignorant, etc. I'm expressing my views about the upcoming console generation, and that is what you seem to not understand. Bashing, praising, indifference; all are valid when discussing a topic. If you want everyone to think as you do, then you might as well talk to yourself, because in real life people have opposing views.

I'm not excited at all about the PS3 right now. Is that wrong? Should I feel bad because I'm not willing to run out and give Sony my money? Hell no. Sony has to convince me to buy their product, not the other way around. If they do in the next few months, then I'll buy one. At the moment, however, I don't see that happening. Why is that so hard to understand? Why am I considered a fanboy because I'm not interested in the PS3?



If you wish to contend with any of my assertions. Read up on each company and find that they have a long standing pedigree. I did not pull these names out of my asshole, as I could've up put up dozens of other companies, but these are all some of the most accomplished developers out there. In fact, I challenge some one to name me a wholly better developer (don't say Blizzard).
The thing is, these developers have never really made a killer app, something people will go out and buy a system for. A few you mentioned haven't even made anything decent this generation and others, like Fumitsu Ueda have made brilliant games (I own and love both Ico and SotC), but both sold like shit. We're talking games that move consoles, and none of these guys really stand out on their own enough to do that.


Finally, the reason why I consider everything stated here as a bit biased and fanboyish is that people here are happy that Sony is failing. People are happy that a game company is falling down. While the notion that a showing at E3 could affect sales in the most mathematically insignificant way is itself utterly absurd, I find this hatred appalling, especially from a community like this.
I still don't see where people want Sony to die. Just because people aren't high on the PS3 doesn't mean they want them dead. Go to any forum, and the opinons are pretty much the same as they are here.

In fact, I'd say your rabid defense of Sony and sweeping generalizations are more fanboyish than anything posted here, but I'm trying to keep an open mind about this whole discussion. If you think that Sony setting a $600 precedent for launch consoles, while having almost no decent software to show at the media event THE WHOLE WORLD WAS WATCHING, with obviously tacked-on gimmicks to mimic the competition (I'm assuming that you know the motion sensor thing on the controller was implemented only weeks ago, and even high profile developers like Itagaki weren't aware of it), and two SKUs- the lower end of which is not compatible with Sony's own products- isn't enough to get people riled up, then I don't know what to tell you.

And to say that E3 is insignificant...dude, are you serious? Prices and hardware are finalized, and this is the beginning of the season to market products for the all-important 4th quarter. What, do you think people want to walk into a store in November and just find the PS3 there, with no prior knowledge?


Play the devil's advocate instead of jumping on a bandwagon. What happens if the PS3 has technically superior games? Several people that I've seen and talked to have said that Sony has had the best looking games. What happens if the controller combines the best elements of what microsoft and nintendo had? What happens when 3 years down the line they find out how to program in 1080p. Will the xbox 360 even be able to compare?
What if? What if? What if? You're arguing against what was seen with what might be. Several of my collegues at GotNext (http://www.got-next.com), who were at the show in person, were less than impressed with the PS3, and actually say that Nintendo had the best showing.

But this is all heresay and speculation...


The only thing I got from this thread was "GTA on xbox 360 and Halo 3 means death for the tyrant!" When GTA is on the ps3 and Halo 3 will not coincide with the launch date of the PS3. You think halo is a big name? What about Gran Turismo, What about Final Fantasy, What about Metal Gear Solid 4, What about Tekken? These were the games THAT MADE THE PS2 THE BEST SELLING CONSOLE IN HISTORY IN THE FIRST PLACE.
See? This is fanboyism. Sequels on 360 =bad. Sequels on PS3 =good! MGS4 was only in video form, FFXII isn't even out yet and Square is already pimping XIII. Tekken got mixed reactions. This is what I meant about there not being much to what Sony showed gamewise.

The bigger question here is: are gamers going to be willing to dish out $600 just to play these games? Kojima hinted towards the 360, and since the first two MGS games appeared on non-Sony hardware, I don't doubt MGS4 coming to the 360 at some point.


I'm tired of useless and hateful predictions. I'm critical of two skus, I'm critical of the controller, I'm critical of some of the decisions Sony made in regards to it's online plan, but I'm also not stupid enough to write them off as quickly as some of you are.
And that's fine. It's your opinion and I respect it. You need to do the same, and I've seen you have a problem doing that sometimes. Dude, it's just video games!


I'm sorry Melf, fanboys ARE those who bash. You are the embodiement of a scornful, naive, and frankly immature fanboy.
See, it's hard to take you seriously when you make personal attacks like this.


I've yet to touch a PS3 controller. And I know that of every generation, Sony has made the best console to buy. I will not judge, I will not predict, and I will not be an unwelcoming jerk.

Sounds to me like you already judged with this very sentence.

[lordofduct]

It seems to me Amy is saying everyone hopes Sony dies (in the video game realm...) just because I said it.

Yes Amy... I'M THE ONE WHO SAID THAT! Not everyone else. I DO hope Sony gets crippled by these choices they made (not fully dead, I'm realistic about what is economically possible. This wouldn't take Sony out of the market 100%). I just hope that they are crippled.

Call me fanboyish for this...

But hey, this is my opinion... with my wishes tacked on to the end. I explained "why" I think Sony will be crippled by this.

On top of that... I'M NOT A GAMER! Haven't been for years. I hang out at 3 retro gaming sites for nostalgia purposes.



As for any further explanation of myself to you... refer to Melf's post. He makes a very good point and I don't have the time. Need to get back to work.

[AmyDoesn'tDouche]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but it was you who threw out the term "bashing" first. I frankly don't see what you mean by "not tolerating opposing views," since I have never said that those who favor the PS3 or anything Sony are wrong, ignorant, etc. I'm expressing my views about the upcoming console generation, and that is what you seem to not understand. Bashing, praising, indifference; all are valid when discussing a topic. If you want everyone to think as you do, then you might as well talk to yourself, because in real life people have opposing views. .

Expressing your views in both a demeaning and derogatory way, is what you meant. I do not expect anyone to think like I do, I tolerate opposing views, but you as indicated by your statement, "Bashing the PS3 is not fanboyism, tolerating crap is" means that you don't tolerate opposing views and you are a judgemental. The opposing view being any sort of defense of an unreleased product. And tolerating crap before being released.


I'm not excited at all about the PS3 right now. Is that wrong? Should I feel bad because I'm not willing to run out and give Sony my money? Hell no. Sony has to convince me to buy their product, not the other way around. If they do in the next few months, then I'll buy one. At the moment, however, I don't see that happening. Why is that so hard to understand? Why am I considered a fanboy because I'm not interested in the PS3?.

It's not because your not interested, it's because your are confrontational and voicing your displeasure as fact. You have stated rudely your opinion as the truth, something not tolerated in debate.




The thing is, these developers have never really made a killer app, something people will go out and buy a system for. A few you mentioned haven't even made anything decent this generation and others, like Fumitsu Ueda have made brilliant games (I own and love both Ico and SotC), but both sold like shit. We're talking games that move consoles, and none of these guys really stand out on their own enough to do that.?.

The thing is, you called me out on my opinion of the best developers. I stated my opinion of the why the best developers were the best developers, and then you brought sales into the mix. What's more, system selling names don't mean as much as quality of games. A fumitsu ueda product, an incog inc. product, and a factor 5 product might not have name recognition, but together they form quality. These are developers with the highest of pedigree and the best of records. You could find one or two developers who are allstars in both the gaming world and gaming quality (such as Blizzard) but these developers are top of the line, and people will take notice.


I still don't see where people want Sony to die. Just because people aren't high on the PS3 doesn't mean they want them dead. Go to any forum, and the opinons are pretty much the same as they are here. .?.

Surely you understand how fickle the gaming world is. Everybody has an opinion on something, and oftentimes it's radical without a thought. I believe historigraphers will call our generation the radical generation because of that.



In fact, I'd say your rabid defense of Sony and sweeping generalizations are more fanboyish than anything posted here, but I'm trying to keep an open mind about this whole discussion. If you think that Sony setting a $600 precedent for launch consoles, while having almost no decent software to show at the media event THE WHOLE WORLD WAS WATCHING, with obviously tacked-on gimmicks to mimic the competition (I'm assuming that you know the motion sensor thing on the controller was implemented only weeks ago, and even high profile developers like Itagaki weren't aware of it), and two SKUs- the lower end of which is not compatible with Sony's own products- isn't enough to get people riled up, then I don't know what to tell you..?.

Again, THE WHOLE WORLD WAS WATCHING is not important. The whole world was NOT watching (only those involved with the gaming world, a very small minority of actual gamers). It was referenced a few times on television shows and magazine articles on general media, but aside from gaming websites and magazines it wasn't broken down significantly by anyone else.

Also, as I've said, I've had my criticisms, but people fail to consider things logically. Sony's "tacked on gimmicks" might be the future of entertainment. Just because Sony "stole" (again, in quotations, since Sony "stole" the analog stick and improved it by putting two on a controller) things doesn't mean they will turn out like crap.

Speaking of fanboyism, that's really the thing of why people are Sony hating fanboys. They think Sony steals, and because they steal they are evil. What they fail to mention is that Sony gets the third parties involved in their steal and they make off with usually a superior product. Is superior (and best) objective? Maybe not, but if you look at sales figures and amount of product and critical and public reception, then Sony IS superior.



And to say that E3 is insignificant...dude, are you serious? Prices and hardware are finalized, and this is the beginning of the season to market products for the all-important 4th quarter. What, do you think people want to walk into a store in November and just find the PS3 there, with no prior knowledge?..?.


Yes, E3 is the only event in which marketing comes into play. Please, every console is sold via commercials, via ads, via press events, via product placement, via critical reception. Also, Sony has lied before at E3, they could do it again. Nothing is finalized because of E3, just Sony's intention at the time (or misdirection, however you view it).



What if? What if? What if? You're arguing against what was seen with what might be. Several of my collegues at GotNext (http://www.got-next.com), who were at the show in person, were less than impressed with the PS3, and actually say that Nintendo had the best showing. ?..?.

Yeah, I viewed gamespot talking about it as well, they said that the PS3 videos looked incredible and that people would commit to buying it, y'know, gamespot, that website about games. What's more, my What If is just as plausible as your What If. Being that you haven't touched the controller or the console and you drew up your conclusions from an insignificant event in the world of finances.



See? This is fanboyism. Sequels on 360 =bad. Sequels on PS3 =good! MGS4 was only in video form, FFXII isn't even out yet and Square is already pimping XIII. Tekken got mixed reactions. This is what I meant about there not being much to what Sony showed gamewise.?..?.

I never stated sequels on the xbox 360 were bad. I called you crazy for stating that GTA 4 being on the xbox 360 will be the reason why the xbox 360 sells more than the PS3. And, you're using pre-determined judgements on games! Tekken is bad! FFXIII is going to suck because FFXII is not out! But Halo 3 footage will surely guarantee fantastic gameplay and everything else.

It's not fanboyism at all.


The bigger question here is: are gamers going to be willing to dish out $600 just to play these games? Kojima hinted towards the 360, and since the first two MGS games appeared on non-Sony hardware, I don't doubt MGS4 coming to the 360 at some point..?..?.

Further speculation that "will" happen. Kojima can hint, assume, do, shit, giggle, whatever for all I care. But right now, metal Gear Solid 4 is on the PS3 and it is as you stated "A system seller". Just like Tekken will be, just like Gran Turismo. All the same games that made the PS2 popular will be on the PS3.

As for my answer to your question: Yes, gamers will. Because Sony has a crack marketing team and a way of tieing in their products to other Sony products. Something you've ignored is that there will be a push for the first true lineup of BluRay players in Q3 2006. You don't think Sony will tap that?

Now, the thing you should understand by this point is that talk is talk. Sony can bring semantics into anything they want to. Now, as a consumer, Imagine this:

"The PS3 is not a device, not a console, but a media immersion center. Music, Movies, Wi-Fi, the Highest quality games, the successor to the DVD, and Sex. Who wouldn't want one? Your poor friend joe? He can get the cheaper version!"

Could all be bullshit. But it doesn't matter.



Sounds to me like you already judged with this very sentence.

I should've clarified best. Pretty much the consensus highest seller, and best (critical) and most diverse array of games. I mean, I suppose we could compare the metacritic scores for all Sony/Nintendo/Microsoft games, but we don't need to.

I'm not in this for face time or for pointless arguments. I'm just against rabid fanboyism. The first sign is the deathknell of popular companies being pointed out before people have even touched the system.

Yes, I am critical, but I'm not sapped up by bullshit from either front. Nintendo Wii made an excellent demo piece. But how long will it take for us to tire from flailing our arms? How many Wii games are going to be gimmicks?

It's just semantics from everybody. Nintendo could say, "The innovative DS" and everybody would believe them. While innovative for many games, it also rescinded some genres and created problems for others. Is the ds innovative? Yes. Does it mean the end for everything else? Hell no.

Wii had the thing that was new and exciting and something that people had to try. I'm still convinced that it will be a great console (it is, in fact, the first next gen console I intend to buy) but I'm not convinced that it won't be without problems, that it won't deliver up to expectations.

Dynasty Warriors makes a great demo, doesn't make a great game.

[Melf]

Expressing your views in both a demeaning and derogatory way, is what you meant. I do not expect anyone to think like I do, I tolerate opposing views, but you as indicated by your statement, "Bashing the PS3 is not fanboyism, tolerating crap is" means that you don't tolerate opposing views and you are a judgemental. The opposing view being any sort of defense of an unreleased product. And tolerating crap before being released.


It's not because your not interested, it's because your are confrontational and voicing your displeasure as fact. You have stated rudely your opinion as the truth, something not tolerated in debate.

I'm only going to respond to this part, since eveything else you posted is a valid argument about what's going to happen this console generation.

I really think you're tossing the word "fanboy" around without really considering what you're saying. I own both Playstations, have since each launched. I've bought a shitload of games for both and enjoy them greatly. How my dislike of what I've seen of the PS3 makes me a fanboy is beyond me. You said I was "rude." To whom exactly? Who would take my opinions of Sony's poor - and it was indeed poor - showing at E3 personal enough to call me rude? Who would consider it demeaning? To whom exactly are you referring?

My opinion is not fact, of course. I'm making my opinon based on what was presented at E3. You know, that show where the entire gaming community watches to see what's going to be the next big thing, where hardware support can be made or broken, and where momentum for console launches is created. I think you're wrong to discount its impact, but that's just me.

Again, I don't see how you can take this so personally and call me the fanboy. If you don't agree with my opinions, then present your own argument (which you did in that last post)., because your sweeping generalizations about people you know nothing about based on a difference of opinion comes off quite worse than anything I may have said.

[David J.]

I'm confused. At times I think Amy is a Sony fanboy, and at other times I get the feeling that it isn't.

I think everyone is over analyzing everything, but that's just me.

[Obviously]

I think both sides of the debate should just shush now. This isn't getting anyone anywhere and everyone's said what they wanted to say.

[Melf]

Word. This isn't getting us anywhere, and I think Amy and I should just agree to disagree. Besides, we're getting off-topic.

[janus]

Did Sony show Killzone 2 or The Getaway this year? I know it was debatable whether they were actually running off PS3s last year, but you'd think they would have them ready this time round.

[Joe Redifer]

It wasn't debatable, they absolutely were NOT running off of finished harware last year. They were target render videos.

[Obviously]

They said straight up that they were target renders didn't they?

[Melf]

Neither game was shown this year, which was strange since Killzone was supposed to be a big title.

[Cless]

And, why that insane price, (both PS3 Packages are very expensive), is that the price of using Blue Ray technology?

[Joe Redifer]

Basically, yes. The system itself isn't leagues more powerful that the Xbox360.

[j_factor]

A Killzone game was shown for PSP. It looked lame.

[Kikoskia]

I wonder, will we see a repeat of the Sega CD? Releasing computer game hardware that is ahead of it's time and suffering for it has happened before and I get the feeling that people won't like Bluray much. Right now, it actually doesn't DO anything apart from play the Playstation 3 games; no other items use Bluray format at present, which has jacked up the price of the console for no other reason then to help duel Son'y little battle between Bluray and HD-DVD.

[janus]

And how much are those discs going to cost? "Free" online sounds dubious to me, too. Either companies are going to set their own costs or ads are going to be plastered over it. My favourite bit of the entire E3 week was when they came out with that Kutagari interview where he said it's probably too cheap. Priceless. That and the whole "six degrees of freedom" thing.

[Melf]

I wonder, will we see a repeat of the Sega CD? Releasing computer game hardware that is ahead of it's time and suffering for it has happened before and I get the feeling that people won't like Bluray much. Right now, it actually doesn't DO anything apart from play the Playstation 3 games; no other items use Bluray format at present, which has jacked up the price of the console for no other reason then to help duel Son'y little battle between Bluray and HD-DVD.

Next Gen (http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3030&Itemid=2) has a great article on how Blu-Ray may not be as big a factor in driving hardware sales as some people think.

[Drixxel]

And how much are those discs going to cost? "Free" online sounds dubious to me, too. Either companies are going to set their own costs or ads are going to be plastered over it. My favourite bit of the entire E3 week was when they came out with that Kutagari interview where he said it's probably too cheap. Priceless. That and the whole "six degrees of freedom" thing.

I have yet to see any actual figures pertaining to the costs of Blu-Ray, but as a first-generation technology, it's going to be fairly expensive to manufacture. Like every other technology, though, it'll become cheaper as production increases, and apparantly the manufacturing process for Blu-Ray is simpler than that for DVDs, so the costs of Blu-Ray are expected to level out fairly quickly. ...that is, if Blu-Ray is a success and demand/production picks up. Otherwise, that's a big whoopsie on Sony's behalf.

The PS3 will sell far better than any stand-alone Blu-Ray player and definitely represents Sony's best chance at rustling up public interest in Blu-Ray movies. That being said, unless PS3s come bundled with a $500 off coupon for HDTVs, I don't think the PS3 alone can carry Blu-Ray. Even on a crappy television, the difference between an aging VHS tape and a new DVD is notable. I look forward to Sony's marketing campaign, trying to compare DVD to Blu-Ray through the grain of broadcast television.

Does anyone honestly look forward to the day when you can buy the same movie on VHS, DVD, UMD, HD-DVD, and Blu-Ray? Anyone?

[Kikoskia]

Not me. Of course, by then there will also be XVD, YU-HQ-DVD, Alpha GX-Beta DVDs, QWVD and any other small combination of letters that they can come up with as a format.

Ultimately, one of the formats will win and will take precedence over the others. That format will endure while the others will die. Over-saturation of a certain merket from multiple types does little but confuse the consumer and cause people to spend far more on marketing against each other for little potential gain if the consumer's buying power is spread too thin.

[Melf]

From Gamespot (http://www.gamespot.com/news/6151565.html):


Sony Computer Entertainment UK has confirmed that the retail price of the 60GB PlayStation 3 is currently planned to be £425 ($799) in the UK--although there is still a possibility that this will change before November's launch. SCEUK MD Ray Maguire told industry magazine MCV that the "60GB version looks like £425 in the UK at the moment".

However, there is no guarantee that the cheaper 20GB console will be launched in the UK. "The lower-end 20GB version of PlayStation 3 has no Wi-Fi, no HDMI, and none of the other slots in it, so it's really a question of where we would position it. It's more likely that we will only launch the 60GB version," Maguire told MCV.

A price point of £425 would, at current exchange rates, make the UK console over £100 more expensive than a direct conversion from the $599 US retail cost, and about £10 more than a direct conversion from the European price of 599 euros announced at E3. The 20GB version will retail for $499 in North America.

Online retailer GameStation has closed its preorders for the 60GB console "until Sony are in a position to confirm initial allocation volumes".

The PlayStation 3's chief rival, the premium Xbox 360, currently sells for £279 ($525) in the UK. The same unit costs $399 in the US.

:daze:

[Joe Redifer]

I agree with Kutagari. The PS3 is far too cheap. I'm moving to the UK so I can pay more!

[Melf]

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/1699/wiifamily6kt.jpg

LOL!

[j_factor]

SCEE CEO (http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=140302): "We have built up a certain brand equity over time since the launch of PlayStation in 1995 and PS2 in 2000 that the first five million are going to buy it, whatever it is, even it didn't have games."

:roll:

[David J.]

I don't think it'll be the first five million, but I swear atleast that many people will buy it, just becuase it's a Playstation.

[Obviously]

SCEE CEO (http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=140302): "We have built up a certain brand equity over time since the launch of PlayStation in 1995 and PS2 in 2000 that the first five million are going to buy it, whatever it is, even it didn't have games."

:roll:

Ladies and gentlemen, it's official. Sony is completely full of itself.

[Drixxel]

Yeah, that is quite a sickening display of pomp. I don't want the PS3 to fail, but Sony doesn't deserve to win with that attitude.

[Cless]

http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/9127/t2ps36yp.gif

[Melf]

LAWL!

[David J.]

Man, for that much I could pay off the classes I "failed" this semister.

[j_factor]

This (http://www.gamesradar.com/gb/ps3/game/news/article.jsp?articleId=20060524153157765035&sectionId=1006) better not be true:

"High street games shops have been told by Sony that there will be no PS3 pre-owned sections in their stores as it will be illegal for customers to sell any next-gen PlayStation games that they've bought"

[Joe Redifer]

What the hell is "High street"?

[j_factor]

I figure it's some sort of biz terminology, but I don't actually know.

[GeckoYamori]

This (http://www.gamesradar.com/gb/ps3/game/news/article.jsp?articleId=20060524153157765035&sectionId=1006) better not be true:

"High street games shops have been told by Sony that there will be no PS3 pre-owned sections in their stores as it will be illegal for customers to sell any next-gen PlayStation games that they've bought"

It will probably happen, considering their stubborness with the PSP firmware that's making life harder for one of their biggest consumer groups (Homebrewers and the likes).

[lordofduct]

HURRAY FOR EBAY!

[Kikoskia]

Short of making people sign a contract to not sell any games they bought, how are they going to be able to enforce that?

[taitbb]

who knows how they will enforce it?

Some type of DRM I imagine. A license key for the CD, plus online registration of the system. Gets registered in some type of Sony database. You take your CD to your friends, it won't play because it is already registered on another PS3. But for $5.99 you can buy a temporary, 48 hr license.

Course, if it is true, how would one be able to rent games?

On the one hand, I can see why Sony would do it, I just don't see it as feasible though.

[j_factor]

Good news: (http://gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=17283) "We have definitely not been communicating that," UK spokesperson Jennie Kong confirmed. "It's false speculation."

[Drixxel]

^ Well that's good. It stunk of unsubstantiated rumour anyway.

If in the future companies such as Sony do take a genuine interest in scooping up their supposed "lost profits" from the sale of used games, the worst I could see happening would be the collection of a royalty for every current-gen used game resold through EB Games, Gamespot and the like. Even that would be bullshit.

[Elusive]

Coming up next: banning libraries, as book publishers are losing their slice of the pie.

[Kikoskia]

Oh, and don't forget used car salesmans. In light of this, their careers are just plain DOOMED.

[j_factor]

In other news, Ikea is going to crack down on places like Salvation Army selling used furniture.

[Melf]

http://lexluthor.ytmnd.com/

LOL!

[lordofduct]

who knows how they will enforce it?

Some type of DRM I imagine. A license key for the CD, plus online registration of the system. Gets registered in some type of Sony database. You take your CD to your friends, it won't play because it is already registered on another PS3.
Of course we've learned it is false... but if this were true and this is the way it was done; those without internet to register the game are screwed and those who's...

dare I say it...

PS3 BREAK! are screwed.



Oh and that ytmnd is funny as all hell!

[Joe Redifer]

dare I say it...

PS3 BREAK!
Oh they will break. En masse. It is a Sony product after all. Do you think they honestly know how to build something that lasts? When they do, it is luck. When it breaks, it is planned obsolescence. Time to get a new one and increase Sony's user base.

[Sega Uranus]

I just can't get over the fact that the Playstation 3 controller is esencially the same as it has been for like, what? 10 years?

Great, more crippled hands...

I truly hope Nintendo realises that they can get to the #1 spot again, if they play there cards right; If not, we can safely assume that Microsoft has already won this generation. :P

[Melf]

LOL!

http://www.arrowsmash.com/179.gif

[taitbb]

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=32171

[Drixxel]

LOL!

http://www.arrowsmash.com/179.gif

Awesome. :ok:


http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=32171

I'm not nearly educated enough as to the PS3 architecture to deduce whether there's a lick of sense in that, and I don't trust the source one bit (the testimony of a row-mate on a random flight to Japan?...). Even so, if the worst is true and the PS3 is a severely handicapped machine outpaced on all counts by the 360, well then... how absolutely devastating. But how very doubtful. Sony has far too much riding on the PS3 to half-ass it like this.

[taitbb]

i cannot vouch for this particular story obviously, but more often than not, these guys (theinquirer) know what they are talking about.

[Psy]

I have yet to see any actual figures pertaining to the costs of Blu-Ray, but as a first-generation technology, it's going to be fairly expensive to manufacture. Like every other technology, though, it'll become cheaper as production increases, and apparantly the manufacturing process for Blu-Ray is simpler than that for DVDs, so the costs of Blu-Ray are expected to level out fairly quickly. ...that is, if Blu-Ray is a success and demand/production picks up. Otherwise, that's a big whoopsie on Sony's behalf.

The PS3 will sell far better than any stand-alone Blu-Ray player and definitely represents Sony's best chance at rustling up public interest in Blu-Ray movies. That being said, unless PS3s come bundled with a $500 off coupon for HDTVs, I don't think the PS3 alone can carry Blu-Ray. Even on a crappy television, the difference between an aging VHS tape and a new DVD is notable. I look forward to Sony's marketing campaign, trying to compare DVD to Blu-Ray through the grain of broadcast television.

Does anyone honestly look forward to the day when you can buy the same movie on VHS, DVD, UMD, HD-DVD, and Blu-Ray? Anyone?
That reminded me of the Halcyon (http://www.handheldmuseum.com/Misc/RDIHalcyonFlyer.htm) a game system based on a laserdisc, from the ad "the magic of videodisc technology makes the computer graphics of primitive video games obsolete" :)

Anyway the fact that laserdisc never hit the mass market shows that better picture quality alone doesn't mean people will flock to it.

[Elusive]

That reminded me of the Halcyon (http://www.handheldmuseum.com/Misc/RDIHalcyonFlyer.htm) a game system based on a laserdisc, from the ad "the magic of videodisc technology makes the computer graphics of primitive video games obsolete" :)

Anyway the fact that laserdisc never hit the mass market shows that better picture quality alone doesn't mean people will flock to it.

Exactly. When my family took the DVD plunge a couple of years ago, the major selling point was 'hey, no rewinding!', not 'hey, true stereo sound', or 'hey, nice menu systems!'

How can you top something that is perfectly functional as it is? What's so special about Blu-Ray (or HD-DVD, to be fair), save from the crippling DRM of course?

[Sega Uranus]

I guess that is the best way to put it. I don't really think that Blu-Ray is really needed at this time. Besides... didn't VHS last like 30+ years anyways?

I see the next evolution of this is not getting up at all to load a disc (or whatever), but actually loading the movie (or whatever you want to see) from a wireless server.

Either way you look at it; The Playstation 3 WILL sell thousands/millions just because of the name, and that pisses me off in a way you can't imagine!

[Joe Redifer]

I see the next evolution of this is not getting up at all...
God I hope that is true. I need to be more fat and more lazy! My dream is to never move at all.

[Sega Uranus]

God I hope that is true. I need to be more fat and more lazy! My dream is to never move at all.

Well, it's not what I want necisarily, but it IS the next step. People are not interested in disc-space, they want to be lazier, Hence what Elusive said; No rewinding, less work!

Of course you need to be fatter, and lazier. That is the future sadly.

EDIT: Not getting up to turn on the Xbox 360 WAS a selling point by the way!

[Joe Redifer]

I'd rather buy a disc myself and own it. I hate wireless networks.