32X Sidechip - what is it? [Archive]

Elusive

07-08-2006, 04:57 PM

When I got a M2 and 32X combo for $5 from Salvation Army, there was this chip plugged into the expansion port of the Genesis. I haven't seen references to it anywhere - what is it/what does it do/is it necessary???

Do you have a picture? What does it look like?

Fonzie - the 32X is capable of 'talking to' the Mega-CD - that's how 32X-CD games work. Of course, it may just be a simple cover with no internals. Decoration, perhaps?

The people at the Sally Army may not know about the various doodads that accompany games consoles, they might simply have put something in the slot that fit.

Fonzie

07-08-2006, 05:36 PM

"Fonzie - the 32X is capable of 'talking to' the Mega-CD - that's how 32X-CD games work. Of course, it may just be a simple cover with no internals. Decoration, perhaps?
"
Afaik, the 32x cannot talk with segacd (btw, the segacd cannot talk with genesis nor 32x)... Its the genesis that power on the 32x (after turning on and running the segacd bios and loading the software from disc).

I think some signals are broken with some models of sega genesis without segacd plugged, well i'm waiting for pics too LOL :D

j_factor

07-08-2006, 06:13 PM

It's called a dongle. GOAT store has them for sale for like $2. Their site says in the description:

"No one seems to have any clue what these were for, but if you bought a 32X and didn't have a Sega CD, you were supposed to put it on the end of your Genesis. If you don't, nothing happens. If you do, nothing happens. But at least you can say that you have an official Sega dongle."

IIRC, every new 32x came with one.

Joe Redifer

07-08-2006, 06:48 PM

The Genesis, 32X and Sega CD can all obviously communicate with each other. The Sega CD isn't running Streets of Rage all by itself when I play Sega Classics. And a lot of sound in Sega CD games comes from the Genesis sound chip which is (get this) located inside the Genesis believe it or not. When the system is powered on it first seems to check the cartridge slot. If no cartridge is present, it checks the expansion slot. The 32X tells the Genesis to go to the expansion slot if it doesn't have a cartridge. And a Sega CD disc can check if there is a 32X. If not, you'll get a screen saying that the disc can only be used if a 32X is present on award-winning games like Slam City starring Scotty Pippin.

I think I have the Genesis 32X dongle around somewhere. I'll try to look for it tonight and if I can find it I'll take a picture.

Genesis Knight

07-08-2006, 06:57 PM

t's called a dongle. GOAT store has them for sale for like $2. Their site says in the description:

"No one seems to have any clue what these were for, but if you bought a 32X and didn't have a Sega CD, you were supposed to put it on the end of your Genesis. If you don't, nothing happens. If you do, nothing happens. But at least you can say that you have an official Sega dongle."

IIRC, every new 32x came with one.

That is the most bizarre thing I've ever heard of. I'll let Joe post the pic, since I'm lazy. Thanks for the info, everyone. Always appreciate the fast responses around here. (Not like time was of the essence in this case, but still...)

David J.

07-08-2006, 07:56 PM

I don't think my 32X came with one, and if it did it went in the trash.... And it was brand new too.

Fonzie

07-08-2006, 08:34 PM

nah, the 32x nor segacd can deal with genesis nor any other part... only the genesis can read/write to 32x and segacd, that's a fact...
Its the genesis that startup the segacd and 32x.

I start to be bored (see segacd color topic) or maybe my english is too bad to be understood.

Let me know,

Genesis Knight

07-08-2006, 09:46 PM

You know, maybe I can put mine on eBay, call it SUPER RARE, and sucker some idiot out of his money.

Joe Redifer

07-09-2006, 01:45 AM

Its the genesis that startup the segacd and 32x.
Nobody's debating that. But according to you those 32X CD games work on magic or something.

Joe Redifer

07-09-2006, 02:44 AM

OK here are pics of the much-fabled and hotly debated 32X "sidechip".

http://pixelcraze.film-tech.net/crap/dongle1.jpg
Here it is in all of its glory. BEHOLD!!!!

http://pixelcraze.film-tech.net/crap/dongle2.jpg
Here's what it looks like upside down. CrAzY!

http://pixelcraze.film-tech.net/crap/dongle3.jpg
If you have X-TrEEm SKiLLZ like me, you can take it apart.
You'll notice many jumpers connecting some of the pins.
Looks like the dongle does SOMETHING after all.

http://pixelcraze.film-tech.net/crap/dongle4.jpg
Here's a close up of the right side of the board.
My macro photography skillz are unmatched!

http://pixelcraze.film-tech.net/crap/dongle5.jpg
Here's what it looks like attached to the Genesis I have
placed an arrow so you can see it. For the intellectually
impaired, I have placed more than one arrow.

http://pixelcraze.film-tech.net/crap/dongle6.jpg
While searchig for the "sidechip" dongle, I found
something that I will sell on eBay for $1 million.
The 32X Genesis 2 spacer thingy!!!!!!!!

http://pixelcraze.film-tech.net/crap/dongle7.jpg
Here's an extra pic just for fun:
Anybody remember these???

Melf

07-09-2006, 04:12 AM

Is that an extra spacer? I need one! Trade?

Joe Redifer

07-09-2006, 05:10 AM

I would consider it but I don't see anything on your list that I'm really interested in right now.

David J.

07-09-2006, 06:21 AM

Mine didn't come with one. Why would you need one? I didn't get my first Sega CD console until 2004, and the cover from the genesis was always on. I guess it was more RF shielding because of stupid FCC regulations or something....

Fonzie

07-09-2006, 06:58 AM

"OK here are pics of the much-fabled and hotly debated 32X "sidechip"." Thx for sharing, if you could take the whole pcb at once (macro), we can investigate and know exactly what it does...

"But according to you those 32X CD games work on magic or something."
Okay, want the full thing?:

-Power on, if no cartridge, the extention port is mapped instead of cartridge port.
-The genesis cpu (M68K) runs its internal bios, then jump on cartridge port as usual, since its now the extention port, it runs another bios situated on the segacd board.
-The M68K run some code, copy some code on segacd cpu (S68K) ram, and make it run.
-Both cpu's are now in action, to show title screen, then the S68K access disc and load two files... one for M68K and one for S68K, both files are now in its ram.
-Then the M68K halt the S68K and access his ram to get the loaded data, copy a part into the genesis ram and execute it.
-Now both cpu's are running from code loaded from disc.
-In the case of a 32x game, the M68K copy the SH2's bioses to their ram and startup the 32x.

How works FMV games?
Genesis 68K send signal to ask a picture to segacd... Segacd CPU load it in its ram, Genesis CPU halt the 32x, halt the segacd cpu and transfert the picture from segacd ram to the 32x framebuffer, then unhalt all.
The 32x takes this data and uncompress it to another part of its framebuffer and show it.
Etc etc...

This isn't magical, its just mad HW restrictions....
If the 32x could access the segacd HW, fmv games could have been VCD's quality without much problem ;)

Joe Redifer

07-09-2006, 08:00 AM

Fonzie, that is a better explanation of your opinion of how things work. But of course the Sega CD and Genesis MUST communicate with each other, especially when their 68K's are synched. The Sega CD may not be able to ask anything of the Genesis but it must communicate with it (give status, etc), otherwise the Genesis wouldn't know what to do with the Sega CD data.

Anyway here is a slightly better close-up of the 32X "sidechip" thingy. It is right side up and the pin connections for the Genesis are on the other side.

http://pixelcraze.film-tech.net/crap/dongle8.jpg

Fonzie

07-09-2006, 09:40 AM

"especially when their 68K's are synched. "
Yeah, but its not the "communicate way" you think... very very basic way (with flags).

Ok thx, from what i can see, this board simply pulldown all the genesis databus bits to prevent eventual electrical glitches when the genesis is reading cartridge throught 32x.

See ya

Fonzie

Genesis Knight

07-09-2006, 02:28 PM

What does the spacer do? You can use the 32X on an M2 w/out it, right? (As in, it won't compromise the structural integrity to have it off...correct?)

(Where's your trade list, Melf? Is it the same as your sale thread?)

Melf

07-09-2006, 02:54 PM

I would consider it but I don't see anything on your list that I'm really interested in right now.

Melf turns and walks away, heartbroken...

Genesis Knight: Yeah, my sell list is the same one. I need one of those darn spacers, as I hate how my model 2 Genny looks with the nekkid 32X on top.

Genesis Knight

07-09-2006, 03:52 PM

Meh. Don't want anything off your list, either. :p

David J.

07-09-2006, 03:57 PM

My 32X did not come with one and it was brand new when I bought it.

So I really doubt this does anything. Just something to pass FCC regulations, like the those damn clips I wager.

Genesis Knight

07-09-2006, 04:02 PM

Or just to cover up that ugly gap.

Joe Redifer

07-09-2006, 08:51 PM

I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with the FCC and the Genesis already had a cover for that port.

Joe Redifer

07-09-2006, 09:20 PM

Melf turns and walks away, heartbroken...
Well you do have that Saturn Mission Stick! I'll even pay for your shipping! Heh heh...

FishySaysSpoon

07-10-2006, 05:26 AM

My 32x couldnt run virtua racing without that dongle spacer thingy... once I put it in the game ran perfectly. My 32x came with it and its listed in the set up instructions.

*edit*
On second look, its doesnt seem to be in the instructions but I still had trouble with the game virtua racing without it.

segagamer

07-10-2006, 01:50 PM

All I remember from the instruction manual for the 32X is that if you do not connect the Sega CD to the Genesis when installing the 32X, then you are to plug that side piece into the Genesis expansion connector. I will have to check it out with Genesis Virtua Racing on 32X tonight to see if it will run.

FishySaysSpoon

07-10-2006, 07:38 PM

The 32X intructions state that you need to remove the 32X in order to play the genesis virtua racing. I was talking about Virtua Racing Deluxe for 32x.

Joe Redifer

07-10-2006, 08:09 PM

If the 32x could access the segacd HW, fmv games could have been VCD's quality without much problem
I just wanted to make a quick comment abut this. The Sega Saturn had far more colors than the 32X and a faster CD drive. Also the Saturn hardware could all pretty much directly access itself. But the FMV we got wasn't anywhere near VCD quality. So I don't believe the same is true for the 32X.

Flash1087

07-10-2006, 10:44 PM

That's weird, I don't remember ever installing the sidechip into my Model 1/32X combo and I never ran into something I couldn't play...

Joe Redifer

07-10-2006, 11:20 PM

Perhaps the later models didn't need it... those chinsey units that didn't come with the model 1 to model 2 video cable.

FishySaysSpoon

07-11-2006, 08:40 AM

I am not sure how new mine was... it didnt come with the model 1 to 2 video cable but it came with the side thingy. I bought it used off email, ended up emailing the guy cuz it wouldnt work right. Figured out I needed to plug in that side thingy and Havent had a problem since. Since then I have a cd plugged in and everything is fine. Virtua Racing was the only game that I know of that had problems running but I can test it out with other games later if anyone is interested.

Genesis Knight

07-11-2006, 12:02 PM

I tested out my VR 32X and it worked perfectly without the dongle, as did my Genesis games and the rest of my 32X collection.

Joe Redifer

07-11-2006, 01:45 PM

I have a launch 32X and a launch Genesis and I don't have any probs with Virtua Racing Deluxe without the dongle, either. Maybe it's only for specific Genesis models?

Genesis Knight

07-11-2006, 02:08 PM

"Launch 32X" - was there any other kind?

FishySaysSpoon

07-11-2006, 08:44 PM

hmmm.. Am I the only one that has problems when I am not using the dongle?

Joe Redifer

07-11-2006, 09:30 PM

So it would seem. What model Genesis do you have? Does it have the white licensing text that comes up before the SEGA logo?

"Launch 32X" - was there any other kind?
Yes, there were ones that did NOT include the Genesis 1 to Genesis 2 video adaptor cable, ones that came packaged with Doom and ones that came packaged with Virtua Fighter (I think) and ones that came packaged with no games at all (like mine).

FishySaysSpoon

07-12-2006, 03:37 AM

Well this is really weird... using one genesis model 2 (mk 1631) without the dongle and work fine with the dongle.

Doom in game menu graphics are screwed up (the skull doesnt move and is on the wrong side)

Virtua Racing Deluxe Freezes

Star Wars Arcade Freezes

Knuckles Chaotix Freezes

Cosmic Carnage Freezes

Using another mk 1631 the games work fine without the dongle. Same with a third mk 1631.

Fonzie

07-12-2006, 03:53 AM

David J.

07-12-2006, 12:33 PM

Hmm... My 32X came with no games, and it came with the Genesis 1 cable. But NO side chip. And it was bought June 18th 1996 for $20 at AMES, brand new.

Joe Redifer

07-12-2006, 07:06 PM

Did it have a sticker on the box that said "Works with ALL Genesis units except CDX"? It must be a star-shaped sticker (not actually printed on the box). If it does not, then it is not a launch unit.

David J.

07-12-2006, 08:02 PM

It did not have that sticker.

Ghaleon

07-13-2006, 02:50 AM

I once bought a new-in-box 32X that definitely did not have the side-chip in the box. It did, however, have 2 conflicting inserts: one that showed how to hook it up to a CD-X, and one that said "you can't hook this up to a CD-X."

Well, I did anyway, and it usually works (resets sometimes, but I think it might be the shoddy third-party AC/DC I'm forced to use on the 32X: CD-X has never given problems). Or maybe it's the fact that I'm not using the voodoo-magic IR shielding metal thingees...?

I would hook the 32X up to my Gen-1/SCD-1 combo, but that's where my power base converter perches--don't have a proper Master System. And, although I'm pretty sure the CD-X doesn't have the necessary hardware to support it, I still tried like hell to get the power-base converter to fit on the CD-X: that didn't work, so I tried plugging the power-base into the 32X into the CD-X: yeah, I'm retarded, but it would have been so cool if it worked! ;-)

FishySaysSpoon

07-13-2006, 06:44 AM

A little off topic but... The 32x insert states that "The Master System Power Base Converter cannot be connected to the genesis 32x. Doing so may damage your unit. " I tried it as well (before I read that of course) because I wanted to play master system games on my genesis model 2 cuz I had av cables for it. I was hoping that the Power base converter fit in the cd-x... oh well. Might have to take off the casing. I wonder if anyone has made a custom spacer for the cdx and 32x. What about the multi-mega? Since the fcc only covers the us, is there a spacer in europe?

Joe Redifer

07-13-2006, 07:01 AM

The Power Base Converter won't work even if you remove the casing. I've tried. It won't damage it, though. I think they were implying that if you leave your 32X cables attached, trying to force a PBC on it would damage those connections.

FishySaysSpoon

07-13-2006, 07:41 AM

You tried hooking up the powerbase to the cdx without the casing?

j_factor

07-13-2006, 11:30 PM

The Power Base Converter should work fine on a CDX (without a 32x). The 32x also works fine on a CDX.

I have a CDX, and both work fine on my system. The Power Base Converter does not need to be removed from its casing, although it will press against the power cord plug a bit.

FishySaysSpoon

07-14-2006, 02:47 AM

Ah, when I was talking about removing the casing and everything I ment to use it in the cdx and not the 32x. Well thats good that I dont have to remove the case for it to work in the cdx. That what I was hoping for. Hopefully soon my cdx will arrive and I can retire my old 95% good model 2 cd :P as well as proper stereo av cables. At the moment I have to av cables hooking up to the back of the cd unit and only using the video coming out of the 32x.

Ash

08-02-2006, 01:00 AM

I think that piece acts as a terminator just like the terminator on a SCSI bus. I have a model one genesis, and without it Virtua Racing Deluxe won't work. The title screen loads, the car selection loads, but when you go to actually race, it just freezes at the black screen.

FishySaysSpoon

08-03-2006, 04:23 AM

Finally, someone else with the same problem as me... hehe ^.^

Elusive

08-03-2006, 06:44 PM

So it actually has a function? It's not a useless dongle? Interesting. Now we need to know which games it affects, on which hardware, with and without it in place.

...any volunteers?

FishySaysSpoon

08-03-2006, 08:18 PM

as i said, the dongle is here to stabilize the genesis bus when accessing the cartridge... If the genesis model is weak, some wierd things will happen on the game, else, nothing will happen.

Doom runs pretty fine because the genesis does almost nothing... that's why there is no real freeze...

As Fonzie stated it depends on the genesis and not the games. I only have problems with one of 4 genesis. If you read the last page you can see my post where I tested my whole library of 32x games. Not that I have many but I listed my results.

Elusive

09-05-2006, 05:30 PM

A technical friend of mine linked me to this (http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/if/scsi/cablesTermination-c.html) page. Apparently it's an 'electrical bus terminator', intended to reduce electromagnetic noise. It's not a peripheral at all, but instead what you need to use when there is no peripheral.

From what I can make out, information sent along the sidecar Mega-CD connector needs to get to the Mega-CD - if it's not plugged in, then the signal will 'reflect' back to the Mega Drive, causing interference with the data being sent. The 'bus' is known as such because it moves data - geddit?

The linked page describes a good article - imagine you are the Mega Drive and a friend is the Mega-CD. You stretch a rope between you, to symbolise the connection between the two (i.e. the sidecar connector). If the Mega Drive (you) sends a 'signal' to the Mega-CD by jerking the rope, the 'signal' will go into the Mega-CD (your friend) through the rope (the connection) with no trouble. However, if your friend wanders off to do something productive and ties the rope around a tree, the 'signal' you send will bounce back at you, and interfere with any other signals headed across the connection. The 'sidechip' stops this harmful reflection by making the rope seem infinite in length, meaning there is nothing for the signal to reflect from.

So. That only leaves the question - why does the 32X try to communicate with the Mega-CD? Is it a hardware feature (for example, when the 32X powers-up is sends a signal to check if the Mega-CD is connected for whatever reason)? Per-game feature (32X CDs, games that use Mega-CD memory if it's available?)? Result of the communication between some model 32Xs and/or Mega Drives and/or Mega-CDs?

I'd guess this terminator device (ho ho ho) is intended to take these signals headed for the Mega-CD, and make sure they don't interfere with the usual operation of the Mega Drive. The way a real Mega-CD would act - remember, it wouldn't be powered on if a 32X or Mega Drive game was running.

Does anyone else follow my thinking on this?

Genesis Knight

09-05-2006, 06:52 PM

I follow you, but if this is true then why didn't the dongle come with every Genesis system? Although I guess you were saying that here, right:

So. That only leaves the question - why does the 32X try to communicate with the Mega-CD? Is it a hardware feature (for example, when the 32X powers-up is sends a signal to check if the Mega-CD is connected for whatever reason)? Per-game feature (32X CDs, games that use Mega-CD memory if it's available?)? Result of the communication between some model 32Xs and/or Mega Drives and/or Mega-CDs?

Anyway, it sounds plausible to me.