Important!!! Control Ratings!!!

[108 Stars]

Are you somehow controlling the reader´s reviews?

I mean, most of them are really good and competent but...

Spider-Man vs The Kingpin get´s 10 points???
Then games like Streets of Rage, Contra or Shining Force should get 30 points at least!

Honestly, the game is mediocre at best. And even if you say it´s better, it is definately not a 10!

10 means must-have, classic, amazing!

Maybe you should do it like Famitsu: Let three staff members give their individual ratings in addition to the author´s and sum then up.

You have a good chance to become the largest Genesis-community on the web, but you have the responsibility not to let such irritating reviews be carved into stone. I´m still willing to let my Genny-collection grow, and I depend on you!

[Zebbe]

I have to agree. Jeremy Peeples seems a little generous with his 10s, having 9 such reviews here. Are each and every of those actually worth the perfect ten? I wouldn't agree on Golden Axe, that's for certain.

[HetmanTancred]

Agreed. As a matter of fact, I don't really like Golden Axe at all. The dude says Golden Axe is a must buy. I got it in a 6-pak that came with one of my Genesis. I didn't enjoy the game one bit...

[winona]

Reviews are individual. If you want to put a grade on a game, then write one yourself.

[Melf]

That review was one of the first that went up when we launched two years ago, long before we had the Review Manifest. it was due to subsequent scores of tens that I added the Manifest and made it clear that from that point on (about a year ago) all perfect scores would be challenged.

The scores remain as they are because, as winona said, reviews are a matter of opinion. That being said, of all the reviews received since the manifest (almost 200), we've had only a single perfect score.

Trust me, it's already under control. :)

[Benjamin]

10 means must-have, classic, amazing!

The Review Manifest states:

10: A must buy that needs to be in your collection now. This score should only be reserved for those few games that are absolutely flawlees. All games scored with a perfect ten will be challenged.

What flaws does Spider-Man vs. The Kingpin have? It may not be a "must-have," but then I believe no game is truly a "must-have" since opinions will always differ. Spider-Man is a really great game and the first Spider-Man game where it really felt as though you were Spider-Man, swinging around, webbing enemies, doing the whole everything a spider can schtick. I really enjoyed how Sega worked in the Peter Parker being a photographer bit into the game, the comic cinemas are a great touch, and the graphics are excellent.

The problem with a "10" rating is that people expect perfection and universal love and praise, and that just isn't the case with any game out there. I'm not fond of numerical ratings myself, but I look at a "10" game as indicating the game is enjoyable and repeatedly so, looks and sounds as great as can be expected, has no flaws, and excels in everything it tries to do for its intended audience. After all, even my beloved Gunstar Heroes or Sonic 2 (which I believe are "10" games) would rate less with strictly RPG or sports fans.

[Genesis Knight]

Although it's true that these reviews are opinions, I've also noticed how generous Mr. Peeples is with his 10s. Maybe he doesn't really realize what he's doing and just needs a friendly notification?

[108 Stars]

@Benjamin
I cannot believe anyone really thinks Spider-Man vs Kingpin is more than mediocre. The graphics are not very good, the same goes for the sounds and gameplay. It doesn´t use the Genesis´ possibilities in the least. It was a rather early game, but we have to rate it today, having seen the best the Genesis can do and almost all games ever available for it
I was a huge Marvel-comics-fan when I got the game and I was warned about it by all the low ratings it got in all German magazines of the time, but I was still disapointed.

10: A must buy that needs to be in your collection now. This score should only be reserved for those few games that are absolutely flawlees.

Even if you like the game better, you will surely not want to call it flawless. Just compare the graphics to your own favourite Gunstar Heroes...
Reviews are to a certain degree, but you should still be able to have a bit of a critical view at least. If it was a 7 or 8, still good ratings, I would not mind. But a 10 does mean perfection
I´m an RPG-fan, but I would not give Beggar Prince a 10 although I love the game. The same goes for Landstalker and so on.
And although I really hate Racing games, I would not argue about Virtua Racing getting a 10.

@Melf
Sorry, I don´t understand that. Those early reviews that got online uncontrolled stand alongside all the others without being marked somehow. And reviews of games that have already been rated are not allowed.
All professional gaming magizens have more than one person testing a game, to avoid such ratings.

All games scored with a perfect ten will be challenged.

How will they be challenged? By whom? And why can´t you "challenge" those early reviews as well?
I don´t think early, possibly overrated games should fall under different rules than new reviews since they can be found in the very same section!
It´s about having a page where ratings are somewhat relyable or not.
I love Sega-16, but I beg you, something must be done about this situation!

[Benjamin]

@Benjamin
I cannot believe anyone really thinks Spider-Man vs Kingpin is more than mediocre. The graphics are not very good, the same goes for the sounds and gameplay. It doesn´t use the Genesis´ possibilities in the least. It was a rather early game, but we have to rate it today, having seen the best the Genesis can do and almost all games ever available for it
I was a huge Marvel-comics-fan when I got the game and I was warned about it by all the low ratings it got in all German magazines of the time, but I was still disapointed.


Spider-Man actually got very good ratings in the US videogame magazines -- I recall mostly 8's and 9's. I'm not saying I agree with the rating myself, but if you apply hindsight to everything, then you'll always end up bashing games that don't meet contemporary standards. For some people the lack of color and high-resolution could have them write off the entire catalog's graphics as garbage. Some could ridiculously complain that most games are not 3-D. It would be a travesty I think to strictly view games in light of current technology. I'd rate it akin to someone dismissing Citizen Kane because it is shot in black-and-white with inferior special effects compared to today's movies.

And although I really hate Racing games, I would not argue about Virtua Racing getting a 10.

Why not? I think this is the root of the issue. You see some games as deserving of a "10" and others as not. You say we have to rate games "today" and yet would still not question Virtua Racing getting a "10," even with its chunky polygons, awful framerate, and lack of color and draw distance? Hmm... :)

[Melf]

@Melf
Sorry, I don´t understand that. Those early reviews that got online uncontrolled stand alongside all the others without being marked somehow. And reviews of games that have already been rated are not allowed.
All professional gaming magizens have more than one person testing a game, to avoid such ratings.

There's the difference. Professional magazines have groups of people who can play and test a game before scoring it (and even then there's always debate about the scores they give). Our site only recently got a staff, and even so most of our reviews come from contributors. There's no need to "mark" those reviews because they are simply the opinion of the author. If we did that, we'd have to mark every review someone disagreed with.


How will they be challenged? By whom? And why can´t you "challenge" those early reviews as well?

Challenged as in "it won't get posted unless you can fully justify the score. This is not based on my opinion of the game but rather what was written in the review itself. If the review says the music could have been better, than the game cannot obviously be scored with a ten. Each challenge is taken on an individual basis and the author is consulted about what's being challenged.

I don´t think early, possibly overrated games should fall under different rules than new reviews since they can be found in the very same section!
It´s about having a page where ratings are somewhat relyable or not.
I love Sega-16, but I beg you, something must be done about this situation!

See, here's the whole subjective issue again. What scores make games reliable? There's always someone who's going to disagree with the score of a particular game, and we can't constantly be changing scores to reflect public opinion. The author has the right to score a game a he/she sees fit, and although it should be logically justified, it is still an opinion.

That being said, I've been meaning to contact Jeremy about his scores and see if maybe he's willing to reevaluate them. I don't like having so many tens (regardless of what games they're for).

[108 Stars]

Why not? I think this is the root of the issue. You see some games as deserving of a "10" and others as not. You say we have to rate games "today" and yet would still not question Virtua Racing getting a "10," even with its chunky polygons, awful framerate, and lack of color and draw distance? Hmm...

It would be a travesty I think to strictly view games in light of current technology. I'd rate it akin to someone dismissing Citizen Kane because it is shot in black-and-white with inferior special effects compared to today's movies.

I also said we can rate them from today´s point of view today because we have seen all the Genesis can do. I did not say Virtua Racing should be compared to Gran Turismo. But we can compare it to Super Monaco GP 2, probably the best racing game of 1992; it´s on the same hardware but it does not stand a chance against Virtua Racing. So if I want the best racing game on Genesis today, it is probably Virtua Racing.
No Genesis game has to compete with a PlayStation 2 game, but imho even a first generation-Genesis game has to be compared to the games of 1996. Even if Spider-Man had been the greatest game of 1990 (?) it would probably not have been rated that good if it had been released in 1996.
As with any console, the Genesis´ standards rose higher year by year and if I look for Genesis games now, I look for the best of all and not for the ones that once were the best in the Genny´s library but have been surpassed by many others throughout the console´s lifetime.

But okay, the choice is up to you, it is not my page.
I thought the page might be improved, but since the questionable reviews are few
I can live with those, I just saw them as the greatest weakpoint of Sega-16. And I don´t think I´m alone.

[winona]

You make a some valid points, but one cant demand that a reviewer compares the game to all other on the system.

Few ppl if any have played all games, even in the same category.

[108 Stars]

It is true that not many people have played all the games themselves, but you can demand someone to know the major competitors at least. I guess if someone only knew Pong up to this day, he´d probably rate Trampoline Terror with a 10. He could honestly say that graphics, sound and gameplay are by far the best he has ever seen.
But that brings up the question if ratings are neccessary at all...
maybe only the pros and cons should be listed.
Or how about a letting every registered member vote for a rating as well like on some other websites.
Then we would have the author´s rating and the Sega-16 member´s average... that would be trustworthy enough for me.

[Benjamin]

It is true that not many people have played all the games themselves, but you can demand someone to know the major competitors at least. I guess if someone only knew Pong up to this day, he´d probably rate Trampoline Terror with a 10. He could honestly say that graphics, sound and gameplay are by far the best he has ever seen.
But that brings up the question if ratings are neccessary at all...
maybe only the pros and cons should be listed.
Or how about a letting every registered member vote for a rating as well like on some other websites.
Then we would have the author´s rating and the Sega-16 member´s average... that would be trustworthy enough for me.

I would like to see some kind of integration of the forums and articles. Right now Sega 16 will post a thread in the news post about the article but not within the article itself. I would love it if that thread could not just be linked to each review but actually made part of the page, either tacked down below or split into a sidebar (say split 60/40% for the review and discussion). This would both allow immediate feedback pertaining to the review, and people could post their disagreements to show a differing opinion for those reading the article. This is the one thing I thought was great about the Genesis Collective, and I think it would largely address what you're getting at. The thread discussions help and really do the job, but they get buried soon after the news post falls off the index page.

[108 Stars]

Yes, that would do the job.
Especially for older reviews it is a bit hard to find the threads as it is now.
Adding comments to the review-page directly would be great.

[j_factor]

I would love to see a review of Trampoline Terror that scores it a 10.

[Genesis Knight]

We'll put it right next to an 11/10 Tempo review in some sort of "Hall of In-DUH-viduals".

[VinnyT]

I can't wait for the April Fools day reader roundtable:

Trampoline Terror is simply the greatest the game to ever grace the golden graces of the graceful Genesis. TT will always hold a graceful place in my heart, as you gracefully jump from one block to another, turning it red and gracefully jumping on another trampoline to jump to the next level and do it again, but even more graceful. WE should devote an entire month to the graceful game. I love it. I glued it to my Genessi since there's no need to play any other game, ever. Grace.

[Melf]

maybe only the pros and cons should be listed.
Or how about a letting every registered member vote for a rating as well like on some other websites.
Then we would have the author´s rating and the Sega-16 member´s average... that would be trustworthy enough for me.
Adding comments to the review-page directly would be great.
Those are both interesting ideas, but we just came off a major redesign, and they would require some major reworking.

The thing about incorporating the comments in the reviews is that it really isn't necessary. We have the forum for that, and to add them in would really take away from the coverage in the reviews themselves, or they'd turn each page into massive beasts of text. That sort of thing works well with the Genesis Collective because they only have one-paragraph snippets for each game instead of full-page reviews.

I think that adding a link in each review and article to its thread in the forums is the best way to go, I just haven't gotten around to adding them in. We're talking about almost 300 reviews and over 150 articles.

*Edit: I've since spoken to Jeremy Peeples about his scores, and he's revised them. Given that the reviews were among the first items posted when we launched, he agrees that they needed to be reworked.

[108 Stars]

Thank you!
I can live with those reviews now.

[Dyne]

to go on the 60/40 idea posted earlier, and how you (melf) say the site was just redesigned, would it be terribly difficult (and of course this would have to be put up after a reviews thread has been posted in enough of course) to paste up pieces of the other posters opinions after the review on the same page? so if somebody doesn't frequent the boards they can read the review and on the same page right after it see some snippets of what other people thought?