What do you believe?

[PHANTOM2040]

Thought it could be an interesting thread.

EDIT:

I know there is not enough room for every belief/philosophy/thought process here and some were clumped together. Paganism alone encompasses over 20 religions as is. Please leave an explaination if you want to direct which one you belong to. I didn't do more than one as that will dillute the polling a bit. Only 10 options for the poll so trust me I would have added more if possible.

[Bablefish]

That depends what your talking about.

God...yes
That people should be good to one another.
That we don't know a lot about the real history of this world.
That sometimes people take things way tooooooo seriously.
That the word 'Furry' freaks some people out.

[Hiarcs]

Above all, I believe in energy.

[Rusty Venture]

The only true way to better oneself, Raul worship.

[Jimmy Yakapucci]

I believe in love.
I believe in babies.
I believe in Mom and Dad.
And I believe in you.

(Courtesy Don Williams)

JY

[cleeg]

Good thread: I believe that all the best parts of all religions are perfectly valid, but I don't get why they have to be associated with the belief in a supernatural being or deity. It seems to me that the promotion of belief in a God or whatever by many is hijacked by the morals that the associated religeon espouses, and that that code is a good reason to be a part of it; wheras you can be a moral person without the membership.

Religeon is just the construct that has evolved around the belief. Ultimately though, you're either decent or not regardless of what you believe in or what religeon you follow. As long as you're not a member of the cult of Nintendonianism, you're OK by me. All hail Seganism!

[Ecco]

Well here's one "vote" for "Buddhism, Confucianism, Taoism, Hinduism, Jainism"

Of course that really doesn't narrow it down, or tell u what religion I really believe in! :D


BTW if I believed in Jainism, and if I took it to the most extreme, I'd be buck naked all day, every day... At least that's what I've heard. :D (But no, it's not Jainism for me.)


Although u can only vote for 1 choice in this poll, I ALSO believe in the following choices from the poll:

AGNOSTICISM.

and

DARWINISM.

:cool:







Above all, I believe in energy.

Well I certainly believe in "energy" as well; It's actually an ANCIENT belief that has continued to this day. Everything is energy, and it strongly correlates with modern quantum physics as well, i.e. that everything is "energy" as well as "vast emptiness" ........


:cool: "Vast emptiness and no holiness!!!" :D Yup, that's what I believe in. :cool:

[Jax184]

I will now be anal and point out that atheism and agnosticism are NOT the same. Agnostics neither believe or disbelieve in god, but rather that it's impossible to know if there is a god. Atheists actively disbelieve in god.

[PHANTOM2040]

I will now be anal and point out that atheism and agnosticism are NOT the same. Agnostics neither believe or disbelieve in god, but rather that it's impossible to know if there is a god. Atheists actively disbelieve in god.

Who said they were the same? Ecco's post? I think he is simply saying that he believes that life on earth is a product of evolution(darwinism) and that his agnostic side believes that there could have been a creator of the source elements for evolution to take place.

EDIT

Or was it my original post/thread choices? Some atheists get offended from the term "Atheist" so I mentioned Darwinism instead. Offcourse "Other" is also an option if one is not happy with any of the choices.

[E.J.]

I know it's probably there for fun, but...

I don't think that physical facts like global warming, or biological evolution, are beliefs. More or less it would like, "I've accepted it/them on the grounds of supportive data/evidence".

As such the GW, or Darwinism (often misused as a replacement for the modern synthesis (http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/modern-synthesis.html)), entries do not belong. There is no such thing as a 'Darwin' philosophy.

Atheism as a category is just fine.... Why wouldn't it be?

Science (or the underlying method) would encompass the GW/evolutionary issues.

So... that would be a totally separate entry. Atheism, and science, are NOT one and the same.

[Chilly Willy]

I was tempted by Raul-ism, but went with Agnostic in the end. ;) :D

[doomguy]

Darwinism? lol that is not a real word isn't that just something creationists say to make it sound bad? Its not a belief its a well proven theory thats like asking if you believe in gravity, we know evolution exists because of fossils. Im an Atheist i think religion exists today as comfort food for our insignificance in the grand scheme of things.

P.S "energy" is a re brand of god it ditches religion to make it seem more plausible and to drop the god badge but if you try to define and test it suddenly its super natural and impossible to do so.

[PHANTOM2040]

I know atheists don't like the term "believe". I have it there for lack of a better term. There is not a great expressive work for what do you "Think". Also keep in mind that some of the above mentioned are not actual religions, just a way of life or a code of ethics.

EDIT:

The word BELIEF in my opinion is essentially the way one interprets life and how to live. Everyone has things that they think and feel that guide them in the decisions and actions they make. Everyone is allowed to do this and has a say in it. Something forgot by some.


I know it's probably there for fun, but...

I don't think that physical facts like global warming, or biological evolution, are beliefs. More or less it would like, "I've accepted it/them on the grounds of supportive data/evidence".

As such the GW, or Darwinism (often misused as a replacement for the modern synthesis (http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/modern-synthesis.html)), entries do not belong. There is no such thing as a 'Darwin' philosophy.

Atheism as a category is just fine.... Why wouldn't it be?

Science (or the underlying method) would encompass the GW/evolutionary issues.

So... that would be a totally separate entry. Atheism, and science, are NOT one and the same.

[PHANTOM2040]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwinism

Says here there 4 types of Darwinism. It doesn't mean that you pray to Darwin.



Darwinism? lol that is not a real word isn't that just something creationists say to make it sound bad? Its not a belief its a well proven theory thats like asking if you believe in gravity, we know evolution exists because of fossils. Im an Atheist i think religion exists today as comfort food for our insignificance in the grand scheme of things.

P.S "energy" is a re brand of god it ditches religion to make it seem more plausible and to drop the god badge but if you try to define and test it suddenly its super natural and impossible to do so.

[tz101]

Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father but by Me."

I think that is fairly straightforward.

So, no, all roads do not lead to heaven.

That is what I believe...

[Christuserloeser]

I think what now is the concept of "God" was an attempt to explain the miracle of life with the knowledge that people had access to a few thousand years ago when the bible was written.




Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father but by Me."

I think that is fairly straightforward.

So, no, all roads do not lead to heaven.

That is what I believe...

Okay, we'll see when we're dead, right ?

[Waterfaller]

We are creations of the people of Atlantis, who came to this planet billions of years ago and created the first life here.

Now their first successful humans, made in their image, were a man and woman named Adam and Eve. We are their descendants. Some of us may even be descendants of the Atlanteans themselves.

[Assman]

Agnostic is one of few labels I'm completely comfortable with.

[Christuserloeser]

Op0kJ0N0p0M

[Obviously]

Darwinism is a nonsense word usually thrown out by fundamentalists in attempt to religify science. No one labels themselves a "Darwinist" except Richard Dawkins trying to be cheeky. In modern times it is only used by creationists to attempt to portray anyone who doesn't accept their philosophy in a negative light. It's an attempt to make anyone who accepts evolutionary science look like they're worshiping a man and to equate "On the Origin of Species" to their own bible which is utterly ridiculous.

And of the "four types of Darwinism" none of those are belief systems either. Social Darwinism is freaking political/economic philosophy and has nothing to do with Charles Darwin other than borrowing the survival of the fittest to use as its mantra.

The theory of evolution has expanded so far beyond Darwin's research in the past 150 years that lumping the two together is absurd. The science of biology is not a belief system. It's a science. Facts don't require you to believe in them. You either accept them or you don't.

Evolution does not explain how life got here in the first place. It does not explain abiogenesis, it does not explain cosmology. It is the mechanism explaining the diversity of life AND NOTHING ELSE. It is not a philosophy. It is not a world view. It is not a religion. It has no place being compared to one.

That being said there are religious people who accept science and religious people who don't.

I am an agnostic atheist. The two terms are not really mutually exclusive. I don't believe in a god based on lack of evidence so I have no reason to but I also accept the idea that there may be a god because it's arrogant to assume I know there isn't.

[N.Saibot]

I don't understand how Darwinism is on the list, out of all the things it's the one that
has absolutely nothing to do with beliefs. It is a proven fact, you can't just
not-believe it and maintain valid logic in your arguments.

Agnosticism and scientology also sound like they don't belong on the list of beliefs.

Personally, I'm pretty sure that none of the religions that I know of is right and there
is no god that is watching and punishing me for stuff. But a creator god? Someone
who can be held responsible for creating our whole universe? Possible, but nothing
like the religious gods that I know.

[Obviously]

Scientology is most definitely a religion. Or a cult. Whatever you want to call it. It doesn't matter if the higher-ups know it's a scam some people truly believe in Xenu and all that.

[N.Saibot]

Scientology is most definitely a religion. Or a cult. Whatever you want to call it. It doesn't matter if the higher-ups know it's a scam some people truly believe in Xenu and all that.

Omg, just read the Scientology article on Wikipedia and man, all I can say that's
pretty f***ed up. Never heard of it before, in Germany it's not all that prominent.
This has to be the most epic fail of all, to put the words "science" "logos" and "church"
in one sentence by calling something "the Church of Scientology".

[doomguy]

Another reason "Darwinism" shouldn't be on there is because you can still believe in a religion and it, i know many Christians who accept the theory of evolution.

[Jesse813]

this thread is complete blasphemy as Raul should be only option on the poll.

[Ecco]

Darwinism? lol that is not a real word isn't that just something creationists say to make it sound bad? Its not a belief its a well proven theory thats like asking if you believe in gravity, we know evolution exists because of fossils. Im an Atheist i think religion exists today as comfort food for our insignificance in the grand scheme of things.

P.S "energy" is a re brand of god it ditches religion to make it seem more plausible and to drop the god badge but if you try to define and test it suddenly its super natural and impossible to do so.

^That's probably true for some folks, but when I say I believe in "energy" that's really not what I meant. I believe everything is made of energy, and that we have energy surrounding each of us, and that we give off energy constantly too. For example your bed is soaked in your own energy that you've given off each night, and your house, your objects, etc. Some folks are more sensitive to such energies than other people. Some folks can see the aura emitted from each of us, and much more commonly, people can often walk into a room and "feel" what sort of positive or negative energy is soaked into the environment.....

[Bablefish]

The late comic Alan King once said, "If you don't believe God has a sense of humor look at the person sitting next to you".

My faith is none of the above, that happens when you get banned from church when your still a baby. True story.

[Zork]

I'm an Asatru Pagan.
The gods aren't something to bow down to, they are instead much like you're kin.

On a side note, no I don't believe in magic.
And I'm on the Universalist side, not the folkish side.

[Vyse of Arcadia]

Segaism!

No, seriously, my option isn't there. I'm not an agnostic. I'm not an atheist. I'm apathetic. Whether there is a god or not has no effect on my life.

[shinobimusashi]

None of the above.

"I dont know", should have been an option, I dont take any religion seriously kind of like the film Religulous suggests, I think its ok to just not really know.

I have been digging the Ancient Aliens shows on tv recently though.

[Waterfaller]

I have been digging the Ancient Aliens shows on tv recently though.

I'm a bit more into leaning towards theories on Ancient Aliens being factual than anything out of a religious text myself.

[Obviously]

None of the above.

"I dont know", should have been an option, I dont take any religion seriously kind of like the film Religulous suggests, I think its ok to just not really know.

I have been digging the Ancient Aliens shows on tv recently though.

But it is up there. "I don't know" is the definition of agnostic. It's literally greek for "without knowledge."

[KillerBean2]

I believe in don't-be-a-dick-ism.

Most religions are harmless as long as you don't use them as an excuse for acting like a dick.

[Why-Disciple]

I believe in don't-be-a-dick-ism.

Most religions are harmless as long as you don't use them as an excuse for acting like a dick.

I agree, but unfortunately this happens too often. Notice how many people (in America) are against gay marriage and basically gays in general, just because the Bible says a couple of things that imply people should be straight. Also remember that WWII, the Iraq War, and pretty much most wars and suffering in general, are directly linked to religious causes.

Granted, I've seen religion do a lot of good; I've got a family friend who used to be a drug addict and went straight when she found religion. Even though she's the preachiest person I've ever met, she donates half her income to the poor, which is a great thing. I think religion is good to have around either way, but what I'd most want is for Atheism to grow and be widely recognized as a legitimate religion (if you call it that), instead of being dismissed by theists that don't understand what it's about. I think balance like that would do the world a lot of good.

[Shadowrun]

becoming muslim and accepting islam is the best thing i have ever done in my life.

[NavesRegge]

I believe in the flying spaghetti monster who created us from meatballs and tomatoes. That's why tomatoes are red, because our blood came from them. i.e. Tomatoes are people.

If we don't please the flying spaghetti monster, this will happen:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/d1/Cloudy_with_a_chance_of_meatballs_theataposter.jpg/220px-Cloudy_with_a_chance_of_meatballs_theataposter.jpg

[PHANTOM2040]

I am an agnostic atheist. The two terms are not really mutually exclusive. I don't believe in a god based on lack of evidence so I have no reason to but I also accept the idea that there may be a god because it's arrogant to assume I know there isn't.


That's a great point. As us humans being specs of nothing in the grand scheme of things and live and die in an instant, how do we think we have an explanation for everything? Could not a creator have produced the original elements of life, space, time, and we just formed thru evolution. Maybe that's how it happened, maybe he/she doesn't give a fuck about us and we have no eternal soul. Maybe he/she has no connection to us. Maybe he/she would see us one day and say, WTF is that? If I was a creator, I would have destroyed us a long time ago for being too retarded.

[Obviously]

I agree, but unfortunately this happens too often. Notice how many people (in America) are against gay marriage and basically gays in general, just because the Bible says a couple of things that imply people should be straight. Also remember that WWII, the Iraq War, and pretty much most wars and suffering in general, are directly linked to religious causes.


Yes that's the problem isn't it? I'm all for live and let live as well but when religion crosses in to politics and starts to try and legislate laws that's when you have to go from sitting on the bench to speaking out.

It's the fundamentalists that ruin it for everybody else really. Religion is fine until you take it to the extreme. That's when it divides more people than it brings together.

[QuickSciFi]

I believe in seeking the path of righteousness.

I believe in doing what's right.

I believe in altruism (minus the dying part).'

I believe goodness and moral quality must persevere.

[Christuserloeser]

i believe in history, i believe in the prophets and i believe in the unseen. becoming muslim and accepting islam is the best thing i have ever done in my life. long video but give it a listen. see if anything makes sense.

Made it to 21:00, the rest gotta wait for now.

The guy is a very eloquent speaker. I couldn't really follow some of the jumps he made though: Darwin did indeed _not_ explain the universe or how this planet works, Darwin's work focused on the origin of the species, how life on earth evolved, and that we are all related.

Explaining how this planet works is what geologists are trying to find out. Here is "Earth Story" by Aubrey Manning, an attempt to sum up what we know so far:
YpbevfWrYg0
I am sure you can find the rest of the documentary via torrent or on Youtube if you're interested. I thought it to be one of the more rewarding experiences in my life.

How the universe works is even more complex and difficult to understand, seeing as we're just these people on this tiny planet. Our written cultural history is barely some 4000 years old.

BBC's The Planets is an attempt to look back at what we know so far:
8k6ryTiC9VQ
One of the best documentaries I've seen.


Neither of these has anything to do with whether there is a god or not. Because all of this is indeed "godly" and thus deserves to be discovered, understood and shared as it does widen the sense of how fantastic all of this is.


But back to your video: I, as I do not believe in a creator, do have my own morals. These morals have been influenced by others, and I have worked on them myself. These morals in itself neither are proof for the existence of god nor for the absence of god.

The same goes for whether or not god is an all-loving being like I've been told as a child (despite of what the bible implied) or not. Neither does proof the existence of god itself.
The only thing it kinda proofs is that -assuming there is a god- it is not an all-loving being. My morals would not allow me to worship a god that is not all-loving. I try to be all-loving.

[old man]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_zpvkluF-N7s/SLROqrQJlFI/AAAAAAAAAPI/Crrkngsp28o/s400/cthulhu-evolution.png

[Mr Smith]

I believe in the light and in the love of that light. I believe in Swedish androids being awakened by the gentle touch of a loving hand. I believe the Mamushka is the sacred dance of brotherly love, danced when Nero fiddled and at Waterloo. I believe there is one answer to every question:

Raul

PRAISE RAUL

[hipposticks]

^That's probably true for some folks, but when I say I believe in "energy" that's really not what I meant. I believe everything is made of energy, and that we have energy surrounding each of us, and that we give off energy constantly too. For example your bed is soaked in your own energy that you've given off each night, and your house, your objects, etc. Some folks are more sensitive to such energies than other people. Some folks can see the aura emitted from each of us, and much more commonly, people can often walk into a room and "feel" what sort of positive or negative energy is soaked into the environment.....

I agree totally. I am somewhat sensitive to people's energy. I can also feel energy from different rooms and some objects, for example Buddha statues (especially heavy ones). I can see correlation between the general energy "feel" in a location and people's moods by their behaviour and expressions. I can only judge on a simple scale between "lighthearted" and "serious and angry".

This sensitivity came about mainly after I became a vegetarian / almost vegan. By the way I'm a Mahayana Buddhist, and I love the Dalai Lama.

[Ecco]

I agree totally. I am somewhat sensitive to people's energy. I can also feel energy from different rooms and some objects, for example Buddha statues (especially heavy ones). I can see correlation between the general energy "feel" in a location and people's moods by their behaviour and expressions. I can only judge on a simple scale between "lighthearted" and "serious and angry".

This sensitivity came about mainly after I became a vegetarian / almost vegan. By the way I'm a Mahayana Buddhist, and I love the Dalai Lama.

^YES Buddha statues are awesome. I also love Kuan Yin figures. Especially when they've soaked up years of people's devotion. There's a nice Buddhist center close by, and sometimes I'll go there alone; the energy alone is enough to put me in a great state, especially in the meditation hall! I also love the Dalai Llama. ...What kind of Mahayana Buddhist, if you'd like to say?












I try to be all-loving.

That gets an "awesome" in my book. :D

[Phosis]

I don't believe in anything.

I think that some religions have more logical tenents than others, but that none of them make any sense as far as some kind of external "creator" goes. It seems to make sense to me that if something is impossible to know, it's pretty fucking lazy to just "assume" it might be there based on no real evidence - while at the same time, there is plenty of evidence to the contrary.

Of course, any brainwashed idiot will tell you, "evidence against is just to test our faith!" but that's the inherent problem with faith, the inescapable circle of pain it creates through it's slave mentality. Once you are in, you are in, and you are not compelled to reconsider based on the fact that you might be wrong. And what happens when you are wrong? What happens in many religions when you question authority? Well, it usually involves fire. Because death by fire is one of those most intensley painful, immediately terrifying ways to die.

So yeah, the people who are fooled by all of that garbage, I feel very sorry for.

As far as the idea of an external force, or energy, even a conscious entity that created everything? I'm not opposed to the idea, but he better have a more decent explanation for how shit went down then "I CREATED TWO PEOPLE AND THERE WAS A RIB AND A SNAKE AND AN APPLE LOL AND THEN A BOAT WAS BUILT SO I DROWNDED EVERYONE." YEAH SURE, cool story bro.

Faith and belief are two of the most excruciating words in the english dictionary to me. Everytime somebody says I "have to have faith" I think of that gay ass song, and I want to punch them in the ear. However, strangely, when Parappa the Rapper says "I gotta believe!" I am compelled to think he is on to something, and right in board with his optimism.

So to answer your question...

Parappa The Rapper is a dog who raps about cake.

That is all.

[Metal_Sonic]

^^
Shit, if you're going to take Genesis and Noah's Ark literally, I'm going to ahead and add

Adam and Eve: We are the product of guys fucking their sisters and cousins.

Noah's Ark: ONLY two of every animal? Incest ahoy!

[Phosis]

^^
Shit, if you're going to take Genesis and Noah's Ark literally, I'm going to ahead and add

Adam and Eve: We are the product of guys fucking their sisters and cousins.

Noah's Ark: ONLY two of every animal? Incest ahoy!

See that leads up to the argument for me of, "Well, it wasn't meant to be taken literally..." which is what a lot of religious apologists say in defence of their hole-ridden book. So they will not take some things literally, like Noah's ark; an apparent metaphor up for interpretation. They will not take some things literally, like the fact that it was alright to let your daughter get raped if it was to please your house guests. Yet, Sodom was perfectly literal, and is a direct example of why gay people = bad.

I'm not trying to take your obvious joke and say "WAIT A SEC." I just find it an interesting distinction that is worth mentioning.

There are some people who say the entire old testament was poppycock...but then, why are they so adamant on upholding the ten commandments? There is not even mention of hell or the devil in the old testament...that concept came along afterward, when the church needed to introduce fear to keep people in line. So where does "truth" end and "fantasy" begin? For many Catholics and Christians, they seem pretty goddamn confused on that fact. If you take both books literally, it makes you look like a fucking dunce, because you are expected to buy into a LOT of stupid shit. But if a lot of it is stupid shit, what compells people to choose just SOME of it, and believe that? It really boggles my mind, the logic gaps involved, and how many people are just totally okay with that.

The best Christians for my money? Either the super, super hardcore ones who put their money where there mouth is, and go ahead and say it's ALL totally real. These are also the most dangerous, fanatical psychopaths on the planet today, and probably ever, apart from hardcore Islamics. Or, alternatively, in the best way I can describe it, the dumb blonde girl who says, "yeah, I'm Christian." and immediately shuts the fuck up thereafter about it. She might where a cross if it's made of gold, but she's never seen the inside of a church, and she otherwise couldn't give a shit. She just thinks Jesus was a "pretty cool guy", and carries on with her daily life.

Anyone in between, or trying to justify their beliefs with logic, creating a mish-mash which is neither Christianity, Agnosticism, Buddhism, or whatever other religion they just decide to throw into the grab bag, are confused, strange individuals who I will never understand.

As far as morality goes, since it has also been brought up, anyone who says morals are created by religion is a stupid twat. We are all compelled naturally to prefer some actions over others, and not necessarily due to direct consequence. You don't need the concept of hell to tell you that raping and killing somebody is wrong, and if there was no concept of religion, we would not all be compelled to go rape and kill people all day, in my opinion, at least not as individuals. Religion, philosophy and morality are very important in a group "tribal" setting, which is what the world primarily consists of today, because the mob is easily misdirected otherwise.

My own personal rules are simply to leave others alone. Don't share opinions unless you are asked (or unless, in the case of a forum, where that is the primary activity taking place, and where it is therefore pretty much required to do so in order to maintain conversation.) be friendly and helpful, but be cautious as well. Don't intentionally hurt people, but if they fuck with you, defend yourself. Keep friends close, and enemies far, far away. Other than that, I figure you can do whatever the hell you want as long as you aren't hurting anyone. And if you are doing something wrong, society will likely correct you, I.E, you steal and go to jail for it. Actions and reprecussions are solely doled out by simple, cause and effect laws; and not some abstract religious concept of "karma", or other, similar apologist anomoly which is nothing more than an excuse to justify why bad things sometimes happen to us.

[PHANTOM2040]

I wonder how many of the "Other" votes should have been "Agnostic" since people didn't know the meaning of it.

[Waterfaller]

Well, there WAS a Noah's Ark... but it was an Atlantean spaceship ;)

[Jibbajaba]

I chose "Agnostic" because there was no choice for "Atheist". I am along the same line of thinking as what Phosis is talking about.

Chris

[doomguy]

Its also true that religion has nothing to do with morals, animals that live in big groups even seemingly vicious piranhas in a feeding frenzy don't attack each other to get more food, apes live in groups like man do they believe in religion too? of course not.

[Phosis]

Well, there WAS a Noah's Ark... but it was an Atlantean spaceship ;)

What in the hell are you talking about? :p

[JFLY]

I would of chosen Atheist, but I guess I'll just say I believe in me.

[Waterfaller]

Its also true that religion has nothing to do with morals, animals that live in big groups even seemingly vicious piranhas in a feeding frenzy don't attack each other to get more food, apes live in groups like man do they believe in religion too? of course not.

What if primates sacrifice coconuts to their monkey gods? We'd never know :p

[PHANTOM2040]

Im an Atheist i think religion exists today as comfort food for our insignificance in the grand scheme of things.

Or are you conforted in the fact that you are practically a god yourself being the highest evolved known life form and enjoy only being surrounded by lower life forms. It might do great things for your ego. Also, that you are not under a higher beings rule or involved in higher beings conflicts, as in that case you would be more of a pawn in their game. Also that you are not ultimately accountable to anyone or anything. These factors might make you feel more significant than if you were created by a higher being.

[PHANTOM2040]

I agree, but unfortunately this happens too often. Notice how many people (in America) are against gay marriage and basically gays in general, just because the Bible says a couple of things that imply people should be straight. Also remember that WWII, the Iraq War, and pretty much most wars and suffering in general, are directly linked to religious causes.


Hitler's reason for commiting genocide on the jews was actually a form of social darwinism, also known as eugenics. Also, many of the Nazi soldiers were actually gay.

[doomguy]

Or are you conforted in the fact that you are practically a god yourself being the highest evolved known life form and enjoy only being surrounded by lower life forms. It might do great things for your ego. Also, that you are not under a higher beings rule or involved in higher beings conflicts, as in that case you would be more of a pawn in their game. Also that you are not ultimately accountable to anyone or anything. These factors might make you feel more significant than if you were created by a higher being.

Incorrect i would say an Athiests views nothing like that, we are on a rock surrounded orbiting a star, there are many billions of stars and who knows what life, better life has come before or since in the grand scheme of space and time we make no more difference than any other animals on earth. But generally in the view of religion we are somehow special chosen creatures that can live forever.

this should put it into perspective for you, this is the furthest picture ever taken of earth and the distance itself is a tiny and insignificant in the grand scheme of things. Also this photo itself is pretty lucky because the earth happens to stand out compaired to everything else
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_d5LRVcO4pGI/Sf9tE4GEY8I/AAAAAAAAAAc/KFsFqV-c_No/s400/pale_blue_dot.jpg

[Ecco]

This is a cool discussion, a rare topic for a forum based on an awesome technological wonder. :cool: Based on that alone, I always assumed mostly atheists and agnostics around these parts. (Personally I'm agnostic for many things, while also believing in some things...)

I can agree with a lot of the criticisms of the traditional picture of God in a very personified form, i.e. him being essentially a giant, all powerful old man in the sky. I certainly can't believe in that at all, & indeed it does raise many questions that many people have already raised here & there. For example, if God had planned everything out (as many people like to think), then why the heck all the problems & suffering on our poor planet? Why the natural disasters, the human-caused violence & destruction? And like the girl in the video said, if God planned it all out, why make creatures who have to eat other creatures??? What a barbaric thing to plan out. :D Even we little humans could plan a more idealistic, peaceful planet! Like she said: Why not just have all creatures self-sufficient, and get their food directly from the sun like plants?

[Guntz]

At that distance, how can you even tell it's really Earth?

Also, I hate religious arguments. Anyone who participates in them are morons. You will never change one's views on the subject. As somebody here said "maybe Phosis", live and let live. In this case, just shut the hell up and let this thread die.

[doomguy]

At that distance, how can you even tell it's really Earth?

Also, I hate religious arguments. Anyone who participates in them are morons. You will never change one's views on the subject. As somebody here said "maybe Phosis", live and let live. In this case, just shut the hell up and let this thread die.
I would imagine the people who decided to take the photo with Voyager 1 already knew where the earth would be in the shot, here is a youtube video about it (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pfwY2TNehw). Im pretty sure the picture is around 4 billion miles away from earth if i remember correctly, pretty far! Its pretty cool to think that every single person ever has lived there lives out on that dot.

[KillerBean2]

Well, there WAS a Noah's Ark... but it was an Atlantean spaceship ;)

You have been watching Stargate Atlantis waaaay too much! ;)

[108 Stars]

More people believing in Judaism, Muslum, Christianity than in Raulism?

What is this world coming to?:?

[hipposticks]

^YES Buddha statues are awesome. I also love Kuan Yin figures. Especially when they've soaked up years of people's devotion. There's a nice Buddhist center close by, and sometimes I'll go there alone; the energy alone is enough to put me in a great state, especially in the meditation hall! I also love the Dalai Llama. ...What kind of Mahayana Buddhist, if you'd like to say?


Yeah agreed with meditation halls, that's one primary example I had in mind. Also stupas / pagodas. I haven't committed to a school yet but I go to a Foguangshan (Chinese Buddhism) temple for chanting services, socialising and hanging out in the library.

[ooXxXoo]

I just believe in me, only me , and that's reality.

[Obviously]

At that distance, how can you even tell it's really Earth?

Also, I hate religious arguments. Anyone who participates in them are morons. You will never change one's views on the subject. As somebody here said "maybe Phosis", live and let live. In this case, just shut the hell up and let this thread die.


The argument has been pretty civil so I don't see a reason for the thread to die as long as it stays contained to this thread.

Opinions do change. I was raised a Christian and I was a Christian for most of my life. Eventually I found myself dismayed with fundamentalists and it lead to a chain reaction that caused me to realize I had no more reason for my more moderate religious beliefs than they had no reason for their coo-coo for cocoa puffs ones.

There's nothing wrong with discussing different views and opinions though sure they can get heated and it seems like beating a dead horse sometimes.

The problem with religion is it really doesn't "live and let live" by its very nature. You're either with it or against it. That's not to say most religious people are this way, because the majority of them are not. It still makes religions divisive by nature because ultimately only one can have the right answer.

I really do think it's healthy for people to hear why others disagree with their beliefs and ideologies even though the nature of the argument causes emotions to run high. If you only live in your own personal echo chamber where everyone gets along you stifle the exchange of ideas. Some people will come out of the mudslinging unchanged but a few will have at least have a better understanding of the beliefs of those they disagree with.

So no, you're not going to usually convince others that you're right, but there are other benefits to arguing about it.

[Ecco]

Yeah agreed with meditation halls, that's one primary example I had in mind. Also stupas / pagodas. I haven't committed to a school yet but I go to a Foguangshan (Chinese Buddhism) temple for chanting services, socialising and hanging out in the library.

Wow that sounds great man. :cool: I've never been to a Buddhist center of that kind! But I love me some good chanting services, plus a Buddhist center is a great place to socialize with people (mostly weirdos ha ha), plus with a great, strange library. I'm also unfamilar with stupas & pagodas, other than brief mentions here & there in books & talks... So at this Chinese Buddhist temple, they have stupas & pagodas? What are they like?

[hipposticks]

I'm also unfamilar with stupas & pagodas, other than brief mentions here & there in books & talks... So at this Chinese Buddhist temple, they have stupas & pagodas? What are they like?

A stupa is a symbol of the enlightened mind, a vertical structure filled with relics, mantras and texts etc which people can venerate. It comes in different sizes. A pagoda is a multi storeyed building often filled with the ashes of practitioners. I believe its shape is based on the stupa and symbolises the same thing but I haven't researched it much yet.

I'm off now for a few hours... take care.

[Ecco]

A stupa is a symbol of the enlightened mind, a vertical structure filled with relics, mantras and texts etc which people can venerate. It comes in different sizes. A pagoda is a multi storeyed building often filled with the ashes of practitioners. I believe its shape is based on the stupa and symbolises the same thing but I haven't researched it much yet.

I'm off now for a few hours... take care.

Interesting. Thanks for describing it! :cool:

[Why-Disciple]

Also, I hate religious arguments. Anyone who participates in them are morons. You will never change one's views on the subject. As somebody here said "maybe Phosis", live and let live. In this case, just shut the hell up and let this thread die.

Incorrect. A couple of years ago I had pretty much this same discussion on another forum and found that I was the only person defending my theistic religion on the board. I open-mindedly read everything the opposing atheists had to say to me, rebuted as best I could, but in the end realized that they were vastly more intelligent than I, and were basically right about everything they said. I had a month to think about it before I decided to convert to agnosticism/atheism based solely on what about five or ten forum members said in that discussion. So while it may not immediately work, it is definitely possible to change someone's views, so long as the points you are using are "enlightening."

The way I see it, if God (or gods) does exist, (s)he won't send me to hell for being atheist because (s)he gave me a brain, and I'm using it.

[shinobimusashi]

I always liked this:

MeSSwKffj9o

[PHANTOM2040]

An Atheist Meets God
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urlTBBKTO68
.
.
.
.
If Atheists Ruled the World
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qO9IPoAdct8&feature=related
.
.
.
.

[Waterfaller]

You have been watching Stargate Atlantis waaaay too much! ;)

Actually it was the anime series Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water :cool:

[Metal_Sonic]

If you're gonna post Pale Blue Dot, do it right.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/73/Pale_Blue_Dot.png

From this distant vantage point, the Earth might not seem of particular interest. But for us, it's different. Look again at that dot. That's here, that's home, that's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.

The Earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that, in glory and triumph, they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of this pixel on the scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner, how frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds.

Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the Universe, are challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity, in all this vastness, there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves.

The Earth is the only world known so far to harbor life. There is nowhere else, at least in the near future, to which our species could migrate. Visit, yes. Settle, not yet. Like it or not, for the moment the Earth is where we make our stand.

It has been said that astronomy is a humbling and character-building experience. There is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another, and to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known.

[doomguy]

If you're gonna post Pale Blue Dot, do it right.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/73/Pale_Blue_Dot.png



I was told the one i posted was the furthest well its the usually shown as the furthest, whatever that one does look further though i guess.

[Ecco]

If you're gonna post Pale Blue Dot, do it right.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/73/Pale_Blue_Dot.png


Awesome post by a frog with attitude! :D

[doomguy]

Awesome post by a frog with attitude! :D

Well im pretty sure he got the rest of the post from the vid i linked earlier but what ever i cant be bothered to check, i just like to use my own words even when not as good.

[Mr Smith]

Only 6 people follow Raulism? There should be a tick box for members who join that they must click to acknowledge the supremacy of Raul and the words of his followers. I note, however, that the belief of the False One has ended. Praise Raul for leading Sega-16 away from the darkness...

Now, let's have some bannings.
http://www.megadrivechamps.org/banned_poster.gif

[Obviously]

The way I see it, if God (or gods) does exist, (s)he won't send me to hell for being atheist because (s)he gave me a brain, and I'm using it.

Oddly enough this is the final line of thinking that got me to drop religion for good as well.

I couldn't wrap my brain around why a god that could do anything would need to create another intellect to appreciate and worship it.

Why would something all knowing and all powerful have the same egotistical characteristics as humans? Why would a god be that petty that it would punish these insignificant creatures for not believing in it?

A god that wants to be worshiped and goes so far as to require worship isn't a god worth worshiping in my opinion. An entity capable of anything doesn't need anything.

I can't comprehend why a god would punish people for using the free will it created by thinking for themselves.

[Phosis]

Oddly enough this is the final line of thinking that got me to drop religion for good as well.

I couldn't wrap my brain around why a god that could do anything would need to create another intellect to appreciate and worship it.

Why would something all knowing and all powerful have the same egotistical characteristics as humans? Why would a god be that petty that it would punish these insignificant creatures for not believing in it?

A god that wants to be worshiped and goes so far as to require worship isn't a god worth worshiping in my opinion. An entity capable of anything doesn't need anything.

I can't comprehend why a god would punish people for using the free will it created by thinking for themselves.

Goddamned right.

We would be enormously stupid and egotistical as human beings to believe that if their was a creator any kind, he would be as petty, spiteful, judgemental, and idiotic as we were. And according to everything we know about the Christian god, he is an epic shithead of monumental proportions. Sure, he got a little nicer in his old age, AKA the new testament, but apart from that, God is the last guy I would want to meet in a dark alley.

[E.J.]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwinism

Says here there 4 types of Darwinism. It doesn't mean that you pray to Darwin.

'Social Darwinism' is NOT reflective of evolutionary theory.

And interestingly enough, under 'other' is where I see the most common use of 'Darwinism'.


The term Darwinism is often used in the United States by promoters of creationism, notably by leading members of the intelligent design movement, as an epithet to attack evolution as though it were an ideology (an "ism") of philosophical naturalism, or atheism. [Emphasis mine]

Besides as others have mentioned, one does not need to be an atheist to accept evolution as true. And technically speaking, atheists COULD be opposed to evolutionary theory.

In the end, one can not logically separate non-acceptance of evolutionary realism, but acceptance of other scientific theories. There are founded on the same principles. For a person to believe that Newton's Gravitational Theory, General Relativity, ..., are correct, but not Evolutionary Theory, they would have to make an appeal from emotion, or an argument from incredulity.

[Hiarcs]

I believe in the paranormal!

[Ecco]

Well im pretty sure he got the rest of the post from the vid i linked earlier but what ever i cant be bothered to check, i just like to use my own words even when not as good.

Yes both "pale blue dot" posts were awesome. :cool: Your description was cool, and also that frog with a bad attitude, wrote a VERY long rambling description that I enjoyed.

Actually when I was young I had a very brief dream that was inspiring to me. It was like 4-5 seconds. I was on the back of a school bus (or something) with a bunch of other kids, and we looked out the window and we could (somehow) see the Earth floating in the sky. It was a little bigger than the "pale blue dot" pics, because in my dream, I could just barely see some land & water.

There was some immense feeling of inspiration, similar to what Doomguy & Metal Sonic both described: We were watching this little Earth marble and thinking how EVERYTHING EVER took place on that little marble, and also, how we Earthlings are "all in this together" as we're all stuck on the same fragile, beautiful little speck!!!

[cleeg]

Another reason "Darwinism" shouldn't be on there is because you can still believe in a religion and it, i know many Christians who accept the theory of evolution.

This is where things get complicated. You can't believe in both. I would venture that the Christians in this scenario are basically good people who think they are Christians based on their cultural background and upbringing, and are intelligent enough to think scientifically, but don't want to analyse it further for some reason.

If they were questioned to a high degree they may find themselves more atheistic than they may dare to, for fear of some degree of rejection from their community. To be a proper Christian you should believe in the bible and all it says and have the conviction to say "balls" to any arguments against.
Whether you are a decent person is an entirely seperate issue to your belief or not in anything spritual.

[Phosis]

This is where things get complicated. You can't believe in both. I would venture that the Christians in this scenario are basically good people who think they are Christians based on their cultural background and upbringing, and are intelligent enough to think scientifically, but don't want to analyse it further for some reason.

If they were questioned to a high degree they may find themselves more atheistic than they may dare to, for fear of some degree of rejection from their community. To be a proper Christian you should believe in the bible and all it says and have the conviction to say "balls" to any arguments against.
Whether you are a decent person is an entirely seperate issue to your belief or not in anything spritual.

For one thing, nobody can "believe" in "Darwinism". It is one of two things; a political ideology (I.E. Social Darwinism) or a scientific theory, one which has been well proven to the extent that it is viewed by many as being a fact, much in the same way that gravity is a "fact". It does not require faith or belief as a concept, much in the same way that we do not say we "believe in gravity." It basically exists until it is proven otherwise, and those who subscribe to the theory of evolution usually do so based on the facts, and extensive research that are available to them. This makes it completely separate from faith in every sense of the word.

Likewise, all atheism is, is a lack of belief in a theistic being. Atheism and the theory of evolution are MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE. One does not require the other. Atheism simply means that you do not believe in anything, it is not a philosophical viewpoint in the fact that it has no inherent tenets or qualities otherwise. Some people like to adopt it as their "philosophy", but the word itself in it's definition does not indicate that in order to be an atheist, you need to adopt a set of values which go along with it. However, many apologist atheists seem to be in strong favor of creating moral errata, much of it based on Christian teachings, in order to validate themselves among folks who are inclined to believe that atheist = degenerate.

This was not a reply only to you, but the first part was specific to your statement.

[cleeg]

I know what you mean, but to clarify I don't believe in Darwinism either. I voted for it in the absence of atheism (atheism in the sense that I don't believe in a creator of the universe based on a lack of any convincing evidence), I was referring to the notion that you can't be a Christian and put any stock in the theory of evolution as illustrated by Charles Darwin. Not if you really look at one or the other, you'll see that the two are mutually exclusive.

As a side note, I read "Childhood's End" by Arthur C. Clarke recently, and he said something in that that fascinated me: Beings so advanced and free from the tyranny of matter that they can imprint their consciousness on the fabric of the universe. I got to thinking, could a life form so advanced and evolved like this become a "God?"

If we think about our own little part of the universe in which we have become masters, our consciousnesses are imprinted on an even smaller part of it: Our own bodies, and smaller still, our brains. The universe is really just a brain, but bigger. Imagine being so evolved that a brain cell to you is a planet, or a galaxy and you could transmit a thought between two of them how powerful you would be.

This is still Sega 16 right?

[Christuserloeser]

To be a proper Christian you should believe in the bible and all it says and have the conviction to say "balls" to any arguments against.

Well, you might be expected by some to do that but honestly I doubt the bible ever was meant to be taken literally. At least some parts of it never were.
I think it was pretty obvious to me as a child that god did not create the earth in seven days, and I assume that must have been obvious even to people 3500 years ago when it was written, but the bible lists the creation in the scientifically correct sequence: Plants came before animals, fish came before mammals, modern man is younger than all other life.

[Obviously]

The Catholic church officially accepts the theory of evolution. If you plan on telling them that they're not Christian they may have a bone to pick with you.

Theistic evolution is the belief held among many if not most non-fundamentalist Christians. It accepts evolution as the reality that it is but religious people believe that it was guided by god and just his method of creating. A good deal of Christians will tell you that many of the old-testament stories, like the creation story and Noah's ark, are just stories and not meant to be taken as anything beyond metaphor. It's already been discussed why this is a cop-out so I won't get into it but this represents the line of thinking of most people that I know.

As science advances religion always has to take a step back. It's irrefutable that the Earth is not flat, the sun does not revolve around the Earth, bats are mammals not birds and so on and so forth. All of these things are in the Christian bible, but I don't see anybody (anybody sane anyway) calling other people not Christian for not believing that the Earth is the center of the universe.

Religion is ultimately controlled and altered by man and it doesn't matter as much what the holy books actually say. Just look at all the different sects with different beliefs that every religion has. Each one claims to be the correct interpretation which is a classic example of the "No true Scottsman" logical fallacy. I often see preachers talk about how religion never changes and the bible never changes but that's complete nonsense. The modern religions have evolved immensely over the centuries in order to keep with the times both culturally and scientifically.

[cleeg]

Does it? They should ditch the bible then and make it official. And also stop telling Africa that condoms cause AIDS.

[Obviously]

The fact that they're jackasses doesn't change my point.

[PHANTOM2040]

Does it? They should ditch the bible then and make it official. And also stop telling Africa that condoms cause AIDS.

I don't think they should have to ditch the bible. They should merely consider birth control as acceptable. That way blind followers of catholic religion back from the missionary days in third world countries will stop having 10 kids each when they can't even afford food or medical treatment.

[cleeg]

The Catholic church officially accepts the theory of evolution. If you plan on telling them that they're not Christian they may have a bone to pick with you.

The catholic church is not the masses though. It's the political body. I don't think they believe in evolution, if they did accept it, they would, and should ditch the bible. I agree with the rest of your post though.

[Phosis]

Religion is ultimately controlled and altered by man and it doesn't matter as much what the holy books actually say. Just look at all the different sects with different beliefs that every religion has. Each one claims to be the correct interpretation which is a classic example of the "No true Scottsman" logical fallacy. I often see preachers talk about how religion never changes and the bible never changes but that's complete nonsense. The modern religions have evolved immensely over the centuries in order to keep with the times both culturally and scientifically.

And the ones who haven't, the ones who have tried to stick to their guns and uphold the many violent, genocidal, racist, homophobic tenets that the scriptures tend to remote are view as homicidal, disgusting, maniacal fanatics by more well rounded normal people.

If anyone came knocking at my door who actually believed in every word of, and tried to follow everything the bible actually promoted (from a non-metaphorical point of view) I'd have my shotgun ready.

[16-bit]

Ever since I started questioning everything I was taught and the reality I've come to understand as my own I have been confused, frustrated, and disgruntled, so I don't know what I believe at this point. The more I think about it, the more I realize that I'd probably be happier if philosophy didn't matter to me at all.

So I guess for now, this world and my existence are both mysteries far too complex for me to even begin to understand.

[Phosis]

Ever since I started questioning everything I was taught and the reality I've come to understand as my own I have been confused, frustrated, and disgruntled, so I don't know what I believe at this point. The more I think about it, the more I realize that I'd probably be happier if philosophy didn't matter to me at all.

So I guess for now, this world and my existence are both mysteries far too complex for me to even begin to understand.

I honestly think you were thinking about it too hard, and you have inadvertently found the right answer. I think many people reach the same conclusion without ever knowing it.

You subconsciously made the choice to not make a choice, and in my own opinion, that's the best choice of all.

[Elusive]

I believe ... it's time for another drink. That's something everyone can agree on.

'Global warming', though? You can't believe in global warming, that's like believing in the postman.

[Elusive]

I believe ... it's time for another drink. That's something everyone can agree on.

'Global warming', though? You can't believe in global warming, that's like believing in the postman.

[Waterfaller]

I believe ... it's time for another drink. That's something everyone can agree on.

'Global warming', though? You can't believe in global warming, that's like believing in the postman.

Here here. *drinks*

[PHANTOM2040]

Definition of an Atheist?(I'll keep out words like believe and faith):

1. All not proven by science is not true.
2. All current science is accurate.
3. All will be explained thru science in time.

[PHANTOM2040]

One problem with the current Bible is there 6-7 books left out. The current version accepted today we can call the "Romanized Version". Also, many don't even know why Noah's Ark was needed. God chose Noah and his family because they were pure. What that actually meant was pure of fallen angel human hybrid genes. God had to do this to keep the bloodline pure as to not taint the blood of Jesus. Many also don't know that hell was actually created for fallen angels for the crime of breeding with humans. There is also UFO's and aliens mentioned in the Bible.

[doomguy]

Definition of an Atheist?(I'll keep out words like believe and faith):

1. All not proven by science is not true.
2. All current science is accurate.
3. All will be explained thru science in time.

Your talking crap..... Of course some things in science are wrong at the moment! that's the point of science if we were sure all our facts were correct there would be no need to investigate them with science. A gap in our knowledge does not mean you can justify believing in a big mac daddy who runs the whole show and expect to be on a level playing field in discussion you need to prove your point and not just say we don't know everything yet and claiming that as evidence, it isnt.

The biggest difference between you and me is if they showed real conclusive evidence for god tomorrow i would believe, you on the other hand would never change your mind no matter what we discover or achieve as a species.

[Phosis]

Definition of an Atheist?(I'll keep out words like believe and faith):

1. All not proven by science is not true.
2. All current science is accurate.
3. All will be explained thru science in time.


That is incorrect.

The official definition of atheist states clearly: "One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods."

Atheism has nothing to do with science. It is simply, and clearly, an absence of belief in deities. That is all.

[KillerBean2]

Definition of an Atheist?(I'll keep out words like believe and faith):

1. All not proven by science is not true.
2. All current science is accurate.
3. All will be explained thru science in time.

More like:

1. Everything is relative. Nothing is certain.
2. All current scientific theories have been proven. But they just theories.
3. Explaining everything thru science will take an eternity.

It's the uncertainty that most religious people can't deal with :)

[PHANTOM2040]

Your talking crap..... Of course some things in science are wrong at the moment! that's the point of science if we were sure all our facts were correct there would be no need to investigate them with science. A gap in our knowledge does not mean you can justify believing in a big mac daddy who runs the whole show and expect to be on a level playing field in discussion you need to prove your point and not just say we don't know everything yet and claiming that as evidence, it isnt.

The biggest difference between you and me is if they showed real conclusive evidence for god tomorrow i would believe, you on the other hand would never change your mind no matter what we discover or achieve as a species.


The definition I came up with is based on my interactions I've had with self-proclaimed Atheists throughout my life. I realize the main definition is to go against anything that has to do with a god but they way an atheist will argue with you is thru science.

[PHANTOM2040]

Also, there are many archaeological coverups:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/720497/posts

http://www.onelight.com/hollow/giant/canyon.html

http://www.viewzone.com/oklahoma.southend.html

These are the first 3 google hits. There are hundreds more.

EDIT:

Here is some giant human articles:

http://hubpages.com/hub/Human-Giants

The large femur halfway down the page was later removed from the museum.

[Obviously]

The definition of an atheist is someone who doesn't believe in gods. It's a single stance on a single position. There's no attached worldview.

That's why there's no real form of organized atheism. Different atheists can believe in all sorts of different things. The only thing they all agree on is they don't believe in gods. It would be like herding cats.

Killer Bean's description is more accurate but that describes a skeptic, not an atheist, and you don't need to be one to be the other.

Edit: Ugh... those aren't archaeological cover ups. They're already debunked crap. Why would anyone try to hide this shit? Scientists aren't actively trying to prove religion false. Science doesn't care if religion is false or not. It's not some sort of thing with an agenda. You're descending into the realm of conspiracy theories and creation science.

If a scientist could prove the existence of god they'd be the most famous person to ever live. Don't you think they'd actually want to try and prove it?

[KillerBean2]

The definition I came up with is based on my interactions I've had with self-proclaimed Atheists throughout my life.

They weren't Atheists, just scientific fanatics. That's also a type of religion :D


Killer Bean's description is more accurate but that describes a skeptic, not an atheist, and you don't need to be one to be the other.

That's true :)

I guess I AM a skeptic. That's why I chose "Other" in the poll.

[doomguy]

they way an atheist will argue with you is thru science.

No way! you mean the way an Atheist might argue with religion is through science not blind faith or old books? i really don't see this thread moving anywhere fast.

PS. I just noticed the "Global Warmingism" that's pretty funny, i hope it was a joke i certainly laughed.

[PHANTOM2040]

No way! you mean the way an Atheist might argue with religion is through science not blind faith or old books?

I'm trying to be civil with you...I don't want any cry babies reporting me to the mods.

So your saying that I was right? Thanks.

[doomguy]

I'm trying to be civil with you...I don't want any cry babies reporting me to the mods.

So your saying that I was right? Thanks.
Sorry but i cant help it if i find religion amusing sometimes, oh and was that "Global Warmingism" a joke? it was pretty funny either way.

[PHANTOM2040]

The definition of an atheist is someone who doesn't believe in gods. It's a single stance on a single position. There's no attached worldview.

That's why there's no real form of organized atheism. Different atheists can believe in all sorts of different things. The only thing they all agree on is they don't believe in gods. It would be like herding cats.

Killer Bean's description is more accurate but that describes a skeptic, not an atheist, and you don't need to be one to be the other.

Edit: Ugh... those aren't archaeological cover ups. They're already debunked crap. Why would anyone try to hide this shit? Scientists aren't actively trying to prove religion false. Science doesn't care if religion is false or not. It's not some sort of thing with an agenda. You're descending into the realm of conspiracy theories and creation science.

If a scientist could prove the existence of god they'd be the most famous person to ever live. Don't you think they'd actually want to try and prove it?


Well, I don't know. They might want to hide stuff to not hinder their political agendas? Who knows. Maybe they don't want to share their information with other countries. I can't answer that question.

Why was 7 minutes cut off to the public of the live feed from Neil Armstrong never to be revealed and the astronauts sworn to secrecy about what they saw on the moon? Who knows.

[doomguy]

Why was 7 minutes cut off to the public of the live feed from Neil Armstrong never to be revealed and the astronauts sworn to secrecy about what they saw on the moon? Who knows.

Source? Of the top of my head it may have been the remote lander the Russians planned to land on the moon, it was kept secret because it was unsuccessful but the Apollo crew saw it and it was believed to be a UFO, for years and kept secret.

[Joe Redifer]

Wow, I have not read every post in this thread or anything, but I'll spew my vile venom here.

I do not believe in a god. I'm not sure why I would. Common sense tells me that its existence is unlikely. The concept of a god was thought up by very primitive cultures who did not have ways to answer certain questions, but "god" was the easiest solution for the people of the time to understand and it could be used as a means of control by those in power as well. It has been taught from generation to generation, so the idea of god is installed very tightly into our society and it's not going anywhere soon.

A little background: I was raised as a Catholic, went to Catholic schools and my mom and grandmother both taught catty-kism (or whatever they call Sunday God school). I was a god believer until I began to feel kind of silly. I had no outside influence or people trying to tell me otherwise, it is a decision I came to on my own. You cannot convert a religious person into a non-religious person with an argument or even evidence (no matter how clear it may be). It is a process that takes time and self reflection. I think that in a few hundred years or so, there will be more non-religious people than religious... but we here today will never see it.

[doomguy]

:You cannot convert a religious person into a non-religious person with an argument or even evidence (no matter how clear it may be). It is a process that takes time and self reflection. I think that in a few hundred years or so, there will be more non-religious people than religious... but we here today will never see it.

True that as a little kid i believed in god, then again i believed in Santa but the point is i stared to educate myself with books and TV and asked myself and over time i came to my conclusion. I still think its worth discussing this sort of thing to get to know each other though and who doesn't like to vent a little at people they disagree with its one of the best uses for the internet.

[PHANTOM2040]

Source? Of the top of my head it may have been the remote lander the Russians planned to land on the moon, it was kept secret because it was unsuccessful but the Apollo crew saw it and it was believed to be a UFO, for years and kept secret.

Here is a four part story on the subject. I have the page linked of what was mentioned although there is much more to read in this article.

http://ufos.about.com/od/nasaufos/p/ufosmoon3.htm

[Phosis]

I think that in a few hundred years or so, there will be more non-religious people than religious... but we here today will never see it.

And from a progressive standpoint, that is a very unfortunate thing.

[KillerBean2]

I was a god believer until I began to feel kind of silly. I had no outside influence or people trying to tell me otherwise, it is a decision I came to on my own. You cannot convert a religious person into a non-religious person with an argument or even evidence (no matter how clear it may be). It is a process that takes time and self reflection.

I couldn't agree more. When people get to the end of their teen years and realize that they are not immortal, it's natural to come to the conclusion: "There's no meaning to anything, and there's no masterplan". Most people can't handle that truth and turn to religion... or drugs. They both make you feel better, and they both keep you from going through the emotionel stress and deep self reflection it takes to find out, that the truth isn't that bad. There doesn't HAVE to be a meaning behind everything, and there doesn't HAVE to be a masterplan! If you're strong and mature enough, that fact won't hurt you.

[Christuserloeser]

Here is a four part story on the subject. I have the page linked of what was mentioned although there is much more to read in this article.

http://ufos.about.com/od/nasaufos/p/ufosmoon3.htm


Also, there are many archaeological coverups:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/720497/posts

http://www.onelight.com/hollow/giant/canyon.html

http://www.viewzone.com/oklahoma.southend.html

These are the first 3 google hits. There are hundreds more.

EDIT:

Here is some giant human articles:

http://hubpages.com/hub/Human-Giants

The large femur halfway down the page was later removed from the museum.


Definition of an Atheist?(I'll keep out words like believe and faith):

1. All not proven by science is not true.
2. All current science is accurate.
3. All will be explained thru science in time.

Definition of PHANTOM2040-ism:

1. Everything I read on the internet is true.
2. Especially about UFOs.
3. And archaeological cover ups.

I mean seriously ? Come on. Even I could set up a couple of websites full of shit and have people read it and link to it in video game forums.

[PHANTOM2040]

Definition of PHANTOM2040-ism:

1. Everything I read on the internet is true.
2. Especially about UFOs.
3. And archaeological cover ups.

I mean seriously ? Come on. Even I could set up a couple of websites full of shit and have people read it and link to it in video game forums.


What I am to you is not important to me.

[drunkex]

I was raised as a Catholic, went to Catholic schools and my mom and grandmother both taught catty-kism (or whatever they call Sunday God school). I was a god believer until I began to feel kind of silly. I had no outside influence or people trying to tell me otherwise, it is a decision I came to on my own. You cannot convert a religious person into a non-religious person with an argument or even evidence (no matter how clear it may be). It is a process that takes time and self reflection. I think that in a few hundred years or so, there will be more non-religious people than religious... but we here today will never see it.

I was raised a catholic and went to sunday school as a kid too, and had a similar revelation about the god they were teaching me about. I'm more of an agnostic now though than an atheist. But I think you are wrong about less people believing in god in the future. Groups who believe in god have pretty high birth rates and now that communism is gone in russia a large portion of the country is coming back to god and they are building churches left and right. :daze:

[Rusty Venture]

Definition of PHANTOM2040-ism:

1. Everything I read on the internet is true.
2. Especially about UFOs.
3. And archaeological cover ups.

I mean seriously ? Come on. Even I could set up a couple of websites full of shit and have people read it and link to it in video game forums.

I think I'm gonna have to side with this.

Some random website found via Google does not make for "proof.

Hell, I remember 8 years ago some numbnut on a video game forum "proved" that every single PS2 was defective because he Googled "disc read errors" and 100,000 pages popped up.

PHANTOM, I don't care how you feel about how everyone else, but don't insult my intelligence by posting this conspiracy theory shit. I'm supposed to buy that the government can keep this archeological stuff, Roswell, JFK's assassination, and faking moon landing secret for decades, yet can't even prevent the Wikileaks thing?

[PHANTOM2040]

I think I'm gonna have to side with this.

Some random website found via Google does not make for "proof.

Hell, I remember 8 years ago some numbnut on a video game forum "proved" that every single PS2 was defective because he Googled "disc read errors" and 100,000 pages popped up.

PHANTOM, I don't care how you feel about how everyone else, but don't insult my intelligence by posting this conspiracy theory shit. I'm supposed to buy that the government can keep this archeological stuff, Roswell, JFK's assassination, and faking moon landing secret for decades, yet can't even prevent the Wikileaks thing?


Thanks for your rant, personal attack, and previous bias of me inserted into here. Don't try to make sense with conspiracy theories. Your not good at it.
Your fear of conspiracy theories is not intriguing, its annoying. If I ever put "unproven" information here of any kind on this site, I think people can check it out for themselves and decide what they think about it and don't need you and chris to play as father and mother to retarded sheltered children. I offer up a momentous concept of everyone being responsible for themselves.

Yourself and chris attempt to defame me and derail the thread is fine with me. I'm smart enough to know that you can creat a thread, but it doesn't mean you have any control over it. Maybe its better to have people like you around that just make every thread about themselves with mindless babble instead of staying on topic and then coming down on others for things that you don't like or things you don't want your sheep to see or think about.

[Phosis]

Thanks for your rant, personal attack, and previous bias of me inserted into here. Don't try to make sense with conspiracy theories. Your not good at it.
Your fear of conspiracy theories is not intriguing, its annoying. If I ever put "unproven" information here of any kind on this site, I think people can check it out for themselves and decide what they think about it and don't need you and chris to play as father and mother to retarded sheltered children. It offer up a momentous concept of everyone being responsible for themselves.

Yourself and chris attempt to defame me and derail the thread is fine with me. I'm smart enough to know that you can creat a thread, but it doesn't mean you have any control over it. Maybe its better to have people like you around that just make every thread about themselves with mindless babble instead of staying on topic and then coming down on others for things that you don't like or things you don't want your sheep to see or think about.

YOU tried to derail this thread by going off about idiotic conspiracy theories when the thread was about religion, specifically.

And whenever a conspiracy theorist calls ANYONE a "sheep", it's so eye roll inducing that I feel like they are going to fall out of my head.

[PHANTOM2040]

YOU tried to derail this thread by going off about idiotic conspiracy theories when the thread was about religion, specifically.

And whenever a conspiracy theorist calls ANYONE a "sheep", it's so eye roll inducing that I feel like they are going to fall out of my head.

And your free to make your own assessments and feel that way. You didn't have to be told what to do. This is the what I'm trying to encourage.

[N.Saibot]

Definition of an Atheist?(I'll keep out words like believe and faith):

1. All not proven by science is not true.
2. All current science is accurate.
3. All will be explained thru science in time.

Well, that's a pretty stupid definition. Atheists, it would seem, have no sense of
logic at all (and have no idea about what science actually is for, certainly not for
discovering/proving "ALL").

How can "all not proven by science" be wrong, if by point three new stuff is
supposed to be explained in time? This basically means that things change from
false to true over time, as they get explained by science. Someone who would live
after that definition is got to be totally insane, things don't become true or false
depending on proof or lack thereof.

Allow me to present you a definition of a Christian, that's been pulled out of a
similar piece of ass as your definition of an atheist:

1. All is explained by the holy bible and it is to be taken literally.
2. If something is not explained by the holy bible, you have to seek harder and study it more.
3. Science and atheists attempt to replace the bible in it's function to explain our whole world, the physics and the ethics of it.
4. It doesn't matter if the oil was created together with the earth 6000 years ago, or was forming inside the earth for
millions of years. What matters is, if you don't believe in Jesus you will go to hell.

[Rusty Venture]

words

I don't have the time or patience for this anymore.

AIDS is fake, Fluoride is a poison, blah blah.


Enjoy my ignore list, TheEdge.

[Obviously]

This thread was a conspiracy to expose us to conspiracy theories.

[Metal_Sonic]

We've been exposed fellas!

L1Pmg3BxCCM&autoplay=1

[old man]

Little known fact, but indians used florid tipped arrows to bring down larger animals. It was developed in response to mastodons killing half the hunting party when they attacked it.

[PHANTOM2040]

Allow me to present you a definition of a Christian, that's been pulled out of a
similar piece of ass as your definition of an atheist:

1. All is explained by the holy bible and it is to be taken literally.
2. If something is not explained by the holy bible, you have to seek harder and study it more.
3. Science and atheists attempt to replace the bible in it's function to explain our whole world, the physics and the ethics of it.
4. It doesn't matter if the oil was created together with the earth 6000 years ago, or was forming inside the earth for
millions of years. What matters is, if you don't believe in Jesus you will go to hell.


Not bad. Number 3 not really needed for a few reasons.

[Waterfaller]

We should all stop arguing. We should just accept the truth:

The people of Atlantis came to this planet billions of years ago and made life here. Including us. We were made in their image. We are all descendants of the original humans, and maybe a lucky few of us are descendants of the original Atlanteans.

Hail Atlan!

[old man]

The hell you say! I ain't no damn alien. I evolved from pure blooded earth monkey, thank you very much.

[Obviously]

I was going to post the aquatic ape theory but somebody here might actually believe it's true.

[PHANTOM2040]

I believe ... it's time for another drink. That's something everyone can agree on.

'Global warming', though? You can't believe in global warming, that's like believing in the postman.

The problem is, I don't agree with but can follow along that it is acceptable to say global warming can cause more heat and melting ice caps.

The Global Warmingists are the ones that take any shift in weather or any type of natural disaster. Examples: Record cold temperatures, earthquakes, hurricanes, record rain or snow. They will say these are all signs of global warming and if we all don't change our ways soon, the world will end. Problem is, politically this is being used for control and more taxes thru fear.

Ted Turner for instance:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSlB1nW4S54

[doomguy]

The problem is, I don't agree with but can follow along that it is acceptable to say global warming can cause more heat and melting ice caps.

The Global Warmingists are the ones that take any shift in weather or any type of natural disaster. Examples: Record cold temperatures, earthquakes,


Who has ever said earthquakes? that's just silly, on the other hand though global warming could cause Britain and Europe could get much colder as the gulf stream slows because of all the fresh water being put into are oceans and salt is what drives the current.

[Baloo]

Lol. I'm a devout Catholic myself. Been going to Church for 17 years, and I don't plan on stopping!

[E.J.]

Well... if global warming was really occurring, one single prediction you should be able to make is ... there should be higher concentrations of water vapor.

Depending on where you live, this could mean higher amounts of raining, or even snow-fall. Yeah, more snow. Some might find that idea counter-intuitive.

[Ecco]

Well... if global warming was really occurring, one single prediction you should be able to make is ... there should be higher concentrations of water vapor.

Depending on where you live, this could mean higher amounts of raining, or even snow-fall. Yeah, more snow. Some might find that idea counter-intuitive.

Are you saying that you disbelieve in global warming, based on a perceived lack of increased precipitation?

There are certainly some places on Earth that have been experiencing increased precipitation, while other places have been experiencing decreased precipitation, leading to record drought. That's how global warming works; its effects vary according to geographical location, and the complex climate factors at work in each location...

(I'm not bothering to find specific examples since this is all well-established science with a global consensus among scientists, i.e. everything I posted is "common knowledge" to anyone who reads or watches anything from Nat'l Geographic, Discover, etc.)

[PHANTOM2040]

Are you saying that you disbelieve in global warming, based on a perceived lack of increased precipitation?

There are certainly some places on Earth that have been experiencing increased precipitation, while other places have been experiencing decreased precipitation, leading to record drought. That's how global warming works; its effects vary according to geographical location, and the complex climate factors at work in each location...

(I'm not bothering to find specific examples since this is all well-established science with a global consensus among scientists, i.e. everything I posted is "common knowledge" to anyone who reads or watches anything from Nat'l Geographic, Discover, etc.)

Or it could be caused by The High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program. I guess people might be to conspiraphobic for that possibility.