Nomad Compatibility? [Archive]

DaveOwl

10-19-2006, 12:39 PM

Couldn't find a great deal about this on the net but I wondered which games are not compatible with the Nomad? I have about 50 games at the moment and a few do not work, the main one being Lemmings 2 - Tribes (Mega Drive version). Does anyone know of any others?

Preferably looking at Mega Drive copies rather than Genesis but either is fine. Also wondered if JPN games work or not? Could make a nice comprehensive list if enough additions are made.

Melf

10-19-2006, 12:54 PM

We started something like this with our Nomad Buyer's Guide, but it's horribly outdated. I'd love to update it and add a list of incompatible games.

108 Stars

10-19-2006, 01:02 PM

I don´t have a nomad myself, but japanese cartridges have a different shape than US and PAL games, so it is unlikely they will fit into the slot...

j_factor

10-20-2006, 01:35 AM

Actually, Japanese cartridges fit into the Nomad just fine. Region-locked games don't work, however. Lemmings 2 is likely a case of region locking, because I'm 90% sure the US version works fine.

I've found that most of the reported Nomad incompatibilities are actually false. Golden Axe II, for example, is incompatible with the 6-button pad -- this has nothing to do with the Nomad itself, and the game works fine if you do the mode thing.

The only real game incompatibilities with the Nomad are the games that only work on the earliest Genesis systems (Ishido, etc.) and X-Men (because it uses the reset button - it works up until the last portion). It's also incompatible with some peripherals, which makes it incompatible by extension with a few games (that whack-a-mole game, for example). But those don't count since they're not software incompatibilities.

The old Sega.com had a page about the Nomad, which stated that the only game known to be incompatible was X-Men. Since those games that require the earlier hardware weren't licensed (and neither was that whack-a-mole game), I think that is accurate as far as North American releases go. Virtua Racing works fine, as does Beggar Prince. I guess the Menacer cart doesn't work with it because it requires the gun (or can you play with a pad?).

o1s1n

10-20-2006, 10:41 AM

i just read the last post and thought
"vr racing works on a nomad???? why have i never tried that?!" ran over to my nomad, slapped the game in all excited.

"developed for use on Pal and French Secam System"

...."oh yeah"

DaveOwl

10-20-2006, 11:52 PM

Rusty Venture

10-21-2006, 12:12 AM

"Budokan" works on the Nomad, you just have to use a game genie with it (without any codes).

I tested that game on both a Nomad and a Genesis 2 and i was able to get it to work on both systems with the aid of the Game Genie.

Elusive

10-21-2006, 10:58 AM

Good info there. Does anyone know from what year that Sega started introducing a region lock? I can then assume the majority of games released before that specific time will work fine from any region.

Looks like I'll be stocking up on some more Genesis titles soon then!

The Nomad is pretty much identical to a Genesis 2 internally. It's possible to add the usual dual-switchmod just as you would the Genesis 2 - some enterprising types have modded theirs so the MODE button switches regions, though I've not seen concrete proof of this.

As a rule of thumb, games made during/after 1993 will probably be region-locked. There are a few exceptions, though - EA games aren't region-locked, for example, nor Sonic (3) & Knuckles. The late-1992 TMSS works to prevent unauthorised games being released, not imported games :)

108 Stars

10-21-2006, 01:41 PM

Good info there. Does anyone know from what year that Sega started introducing a region lock? I can then assume the majority of games released before that specific time will work fine from any region.

Well, I have an official announcement in a Sega magazine that says software purchased from the first of november 1992 on will be protected.

Zebbe

10-21-2006, 02:27 PM

Does it say something like: "Because you Europeans aren't morons and buy the cheaper and earlier released NTSC versions, we have decided to make these games uncompatible with your PAL consoles"?

evildragon

10-21-2006, 03:46 PM

sonic 3 is region locked... tested that in an emulator, it does have region locks on it..

108 Stars

10-21-2006, 06:47 PM

Does it say something like: "Because you Europeans aren't morons and buy the cheaper and earlier released NTSC versions, we have decided to make these games uncompatible with your PAL consoles"?

No, that would have been the truth. Sega Europe never liked the truth much...
I have an Interview with the German PR manager made in mid-1995 where he assures users that the Mega Drive will be well supported in the future, despite the Saturn´s launch, because it is the "bread and butter"-product of Sega, the most important and vital source of income for the company.

DaveOwl

10-21-2006, 07:30 PM

Suppose it doesn't matter too much as I have a PAL MD as well as the Nomad but it's a shame that I will have to duplicate if I want the handheld goodness :) Unfortunately I like to keep consoles/handhelds totally original and the way they were meant to operate, so would never think of modifying them even if I will miss out I guess.

I imagine if Sonic 3 is actually region locked then S&K will follow suit.

Genesis Knight

10-21-2006, 08:27 PM

Elusive

10-22-2006, 10:04 AM

I imagine if Sonic 3 is actually region locked then S&K will follow suit.

Nope. Sonic & Knuckles is region-free - and so is Sonic 3 & Knuckles.

evildragon

10-22-2006, 11:02 AM

Nope. Sonic & Knuckles is region-free - and so is Sonic 3 & Knuckles.
why would those be region free, and sonic 3 be region locked?

Zebbe

10-22-2006, 11:08 AM

Sonic & Knuckles is different with its lock-on feature. They probably thought it would be too much trouble to make a new region lock chip into that particular cart. The region lock of Sonic 3 doesn't work with Sonic & Knuckles in any case.

DaveOwl

10-22-2006, 11:37 AM

If we update the Nomad feature, we should add in games that play differently on the Nomad... Castlevania Bloodlines has two extra levels in the level select when played on Nomad, for instance. (I'd love to see an explanation for why that is.)

From what I've read, Sega asked Konami if they would add this in as a bonus for Nomad users as the game could tell what console it was playing on. Good old Sega :cool:

Elusive

10-22-2006, 03:30 PM

why would those be region free, and sonic 3 be region locked?

Kind of tricky to explain, as Sonic & Knuckles is technically three games in one.

When you turn on the Mega Drive with Sonic and Knuckles inserted, S&K checks its Lock-On port to see what's there. If it's empty, the game loads from the S&K chip on the cartridge as usual.

If Sonic 3 is inserted in the Lock-On port, the game loads from the S&K chip on the cartridge, and uses Sonic 3's ROM data as a patch for Sonic & Knuckles. This means Sonic 3's game code (level layout, palettes and what have you) is loaded, interpreted and used as required - at no point is the Sonic 3 region lock code ever used.

If Sonic 2 is inserted, the game runs from the Sonic 2 ROM, with a small chip on the S&K cart used as patch data - at no point is the 'main' S&K data used.

DaveOwl

10-22-2006, 07:24 PM

Makes sense. It's a shame you can only use other carts to generate Special Stage levels rather than using S&K as a region-free pass-through cart.

evildragon

10-22-2006, 08:05 PM

Actually, I heard something interesting about the supposed "lock-on" technology.. Though, I need a Sonic and Knuckles cartridge to actually test this...

It is said, that the ROM in S & K does no patching at all, it merely has ALL the data in it.. Just connecting, say, Sonic 2, triggers the ROM in S & K to use a different location.. Connecting say Sonic 3, does the same.. Connecting Sonic 1, triggers a certain "special" "No Way!" game.. Connecting any other cart triggers the "generic" "No Way!" game... (there is a difference between them as I have found out, and confirmed by Wikipedia)

Joe Redifer

10-23-2006, 02:06 AM

Wikipedia has never, ever had any incorrect information. If it's on Wikipedia, it's 100% correct.

evildragon

10-23-2006, 02:20 AM

Wikipedia has never, ever had any incorrect information. If it's on Wikipedia, it's 100% correct.
now THAT is not true...

wikipedia says the max resolution of the genesis incorrectly...

not only that, wikipedia is completely put together by other people, there's MANY false statements in it.. to believe everything on it as fact is a VERY stupid idea...

i mean, the max res of the genesis is 640x480...

Joe Redifer

10-23-2006, 03:29 AM

...though no game uses that resolution.

evildragon

10-23-2006, 03:35 AM

Sonic 2, split screen, PAL version does... (the US one only hits 640x448)

what im saying is, wikipedia is put together for users, BY users, so it can be greatly incorrect, hence they have debates on things too...

and the sonic and knuckles lock on cart has been debated before elsewhere.. i wish i had a link to whom said it.. (and if I can get the cartridge, find out for myself.. put it in a ROM dumper and see what happens, also by watching the registers on the ROM in action)

better yet, find me a pic of the cartridge inside.. i want to see the chips it has..

Rusty Venture

10-23-2006, 05:22 AM

Well, i did my own test on "Sonic 3" and "Sonic & Knuckles" to test this region/no region lock business.

And it's all 100% true.

S&K plays when my system is set to JP
Sonic 3 doesnt
Sonic 3 + S&K plays.

I never knew S+K was region free.

Joe Redifer

10-23-2006, 05:48 AM

Sonic 2, split screen, PAL version does... (the US one only hits 640x448)
Nope. Sonic 2 is limited to 320 pixels in width in all regions.

evildragon

10-23-2006, 10:58 AM

Nope. Sonic 2 is limited to 320 pixels in width in all regions.
actually, in all oddness, Sonic 2 PAL version outputs a doubled 320 width, technically being 640 pixels on the output... you wouldn't see it, but with an oscilloscope, it's there...

Elusive

10-23-2006, 02:13 PM

and the sonic and knuckles lock on cart has been debated before elsewhere.. i wish i had a link to whom said it.. (and if I can get the cartridge, find out for myself.. put it in a ROM dumper and see what happens, also by watching the registers on the ROM in action)

better yet, find me a pic of the cartridge inside.. i want to see the chips it has..

S&K is unique in that conventional ROM reader-dumpers cannot dump the game correctly, as it's really four possible games depending on what's inserted in the Lock-On port (S&K, S3&K, S2&K, No Way!). The only way to dump the contents of the cartridge is to dump all the individual chip contents - including the (512k?) Sonic 2 patch chip. This also makes it impossible to completely and accurately emulate Sonic & Knuckles; S3&K.bin is really Sonic3.bin and S&K.bin merged together in a single .bin file - hence it's a real headache for emulator developers. S2&K is even worse for the same reason.

I wonder why the Lock-On idea wasn't expanded further, by SEGA or anyone else? Cost? I know there are pirate S&K carts with no Lock-On port that simply contain the S&K game on a standard cartridge, so I guess that's a primary reason.

danielscheil

10-23-2006, 02:15 PM

From our german Sega Forum; these Pal Games work 100 %

Atomic Runner
Bio Hazard Battle
Back to the Future 3
Ballz
Batman Returns
Castle of Illusion
College Football's N. Champ. 2
Double Dragon I
EA Hockey
European Club Soccer
F15 Strike Eagle 2
F117 Night Storm
Fatal Fury 2
FIFA 97
Flashback
James Pond 3
John Madden 93
Jungle Strike
LHX Attack Chopper
M1 Abrams Battle Tank
Mega Games 1
Mickey Mania
Micro Machines
Mortal kombat
NBA All Star Challenge
Pitfall
Populous
Revenge of Shinobi
Rise of the Robots
Smash TV
Shaq Fu
Sonic 1
Sonic 2
Super Off Road
Super Wrestlemania
Turrican
The Lion king
Urban Strike
Vectorman
Wimbledon
Winter Olympics
World Heroes
World Cup USA 94
World of Illusion
Zero Tolerance
NBA Live 95
International Tour Tennis
Desert Strike
Super Hang On
James Bond the Duel
Jurassic Park Rampage
ESWAT
Chuck Rock
Streets of Rage
Judge Dredd
Stargate
Splatterhouse 2
Mercs
Warlock
Corporation
King of the Monsters
Rambo 3
GODS
Dungeons & Dragons Eternal Sun
Ghouls'n Ghosts

you can say that every;
- game in a blue case does not work
- game in a black case does work
- game in a yellow case ( EA) does work
that fits on 90 % of the Pal Games except Konami and Capcom Games they have often region codes

evildragon

10-23-2006, 02:20 PM

S&K is unique in that conventional ROM reader-dumpers cannot dump the game correctly, as it's really four possible games depending on what's inserted in the Lock-On port (S&K, S3&K, S2&K, No Way!). The only way to dump the contents of the cartridge is to dump all the individual chip contents - including the (512k?) Sonic 2 patch chip. This also makes it impossible to completely and accurately emulate Sonic & Knuckles; S3&K.bin is really Sonic3.bin and S&K.bin merged together in a single .bin file - hence it's a real headache for emulator developers. S2&K is even worse for the same reason.

I wonder why the Lock-On idea wasn't expanded further, by SEGA or anyone else? Cost? I know there are pirate S&K carts with no Lock-On port that simply contain the S&K game on a standard cartridge, so I guess that's a primary reason.
well that's the thing, and this is what I want to test, on an electronic level.. I have heard the opposite here, that the S&K cart actually has all 5 "complete" data inside it's ROM..

1: S&K
2: S3&K
3: S2&K
4: No Way! v1
5: No Way! v2

(being the fact that there is TWO "No Way!"'s, I think there might be some truth in this)..

I want to see the S&K inside of it.. Because I remember the last pic I saw, there was only ONE chip in it, and if I remembered correctly, it was just a mask ROM, and with a different cart attached to it, no patching actually happened, it just triggered a different "bank" to be exposed..

I'm not saying, that what you said isn't true.. It's probably very true.. But with conflicting reports on what actually, I want to see for myself, and figure it out once and for all.. Because it would be very interesting how it can possibly patch Sonic 2.. Sonic 2 doesn't even have an engine that can "wall climb", and that means the engine would have to be patched.. And if you just patch the engine at boot, the game would crash (normally)... So there is something else going on I suspect..

xBino

10-23-2006, 03:11 PM

The Nomad is pretty much identical to a Genesis 2 internally. It's possible to add the usual dual-switchmod just as you would the Genesis 2 - some enterprising types have modded theirs so the MODE button switches regions, though I've not seen concrete proof of this.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a327/shedeus/Sega%20Nomad/ImportGaming1.jpg

JAP mode by holding down "A" on boot up

PAL mode by holding down "MODE" on boot up.

and just for fun, 1P controller port for a joystick or even better... 4player EA games! (previously impossible on the nomad due to lack of player 1 input) :p

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a327/shedeus/Sega%20Nomad/GCA.jpg

xBino

10-23-2006, 03:14 PM

I don´t have a nomad myself, but japanese cartridges have a different shape than US and PAL games, so it is unlikely they will fit into the slot...

Japanese carts don't seem to have a problem fitting in the Nomad's cart slot. Granted, it's a very tight fit...

Joe Redifer

10-23-2006, 06:55 PM

evildragon

10-23-2006, 07:10 PM

Why don't people just hack the ROM of Sonic & Knuckles to see what's in it?

Obviously the two "No Way!" screens are built into the ROM. They could not be anywhere else. I can't see how anyone would think they would be. Sonic 3 is 16 meg, Sonic 2 is 6 meg, and Sonic & Knuckles by itself is 16 meg. I don't think they'd include the entire Sonic 3 data and Sonic 2 data into the chips at a time when chip memory was much more expensive. Ergo the game uses the data from the cart that is attached, like Elusive eludes to.
Hence there is a problem.. You need to know how "bank switching" works.. Because if the cart has bank switching triggered via a cartridge being attached, you can't dump all the data from it, it would be impossible... it's a ROM with multiple ROMs in it...

I need to see the ROM chip from the cart, to mess with it myself...

Joe Redifer

10-23-2006, 08:54 PM

The game is extremely common, and you'll need a "gamebit" to get inside. Or a hammer. Check out the used shops and thrift stores. Let us know what you find out.

evildragon

10-23-2006, 09:11 PM

The game is extremely common, and you'll need a "gamebit" to get inside. Or a hammer. Check out the used shops and thrift stores. Let us know what you find out.
already got a gamebit driver.. flea market here has the cartridge, i've seen it.. hopefully they'll still have the cart..

DaveOwl

10-24-2006, 09:18 AM

Good list danielschiel. I assume that an import converter would fit fine in a Nomad also, unless the internals are in any way different? Are there any specific ones to look out for or would any work universally, as in - US/EU/JPN games all work on any particular console?

danielscheil

10-24-2006, 09:38 AM

i think a import adapter is a good solution but you need one how is made for the genesis / mega drive 2 cause the nomad has the same or an nearly identical bios...

the action replay 2 does not work for pal carts

Elusive

10-24-2006, 02:22 PM

Hence there is a problem.. You need to know how "bank switching" works.. Because if the cart has bank switching triggered via a cartridge being attached, you can't dump all the data from it, it would be impossible... it's a ROM with multiple ROMs in it...

I need to see the ROM chip from the cart, to mess with it myself...

Even if the game did use bank switching, it'd still need a great big honking ROM chip to hold all of the game data. Memory was very, very expensive in 1994 - the larger the capacity, the costlier the cartridge. Let's do the mathematics, shall we?

...Sonic 3 is 16 meg, Sonic 2 is 6 meg, and Sonic & Knuckles by itself is 16 meg...

Let's also assume 'No Way!' is a 4-megabit game, like the original Sonic 1 game. So, to store the original Sonic 2, Sonic 3 and No Way! onto a cartridge along with Sonic and Knuckles by itself would be 42 megabits. Of course, I'm dealing with unaltered ROMs, I've no idea how large S2&K is in megabits. The point remains valid, though.

Sonic Team avoided this massive waste of memory (and money, don't forget) by using patch data to create Sonic 2 & Knuckles etc. Almost exactly the same way you or I would apply an IPS patch to a ROM to mess with it.