Phantasy Star Online 2 will be Free to Play!

[TrekkiesUnite118]

And it will also be on SmartPhones. This just sold me on the game. I don't think I'll be putting much time into any other games after this comes out.

http://kotaku.com/5896343/phantasy-star-online-2-will-also-be-on-on-smartphones

[The Jackal]

This is great news, and I might just buy it, but I really wish Sega would do a proper sequel to PSIV...

[TrekkiesUnite118]

The client will also be free on PC and PS Vita. They plan to make money from an in game cash shop. There's pretty much no excuse to not give the game a try if you have the platforms it's on.

[Melf]

Wait, so this is on the Vita and smartphones but NOT the Xbox 360 or PS3? WTF?

I don't own a Vita and don't want to play this on my friggen' phone. I'd have to go PC if I want to play it at all.

Sometimes I think Sega just doesn't want my money. :(

[TrekkiesUnite118]

Well, they have a very good reason for not putting it on the the 360. Microsoft's polices on updates has pretty much ruined the 360 version of Phantasy Star Universe. Pretty much every new update on the 360 servers is a disappointment because something get's left out due to Microsoft's policies. The 360 PSU servers are now 3+ years behind the Japanese PC servers. The gap was originally 1 month.

I don't really know why they haven't done a PS3 version. Though they have mentioned that the Smartphone version will be a single player experience only and simplified. So you can play with your character and chat with friends, but you are playing the game by yourself. The Vita version may also be toned down a bit. So a lack of PS3 version may be due to limitations on updates as well.

[The Jackal]

What's the specs for the PC version? Has that been revealed yet?

[TrekkiesUnite118]

These were the minimum requirements for the Alpha test version:

Minimum Requirements
Windows XP 32bit Japanese Language
Windows Vista / 7 32bit or 64bit Japanese Language
Intel Core 2 Duo E6300 or higher
RAM: Windows XP - 1.5GB or higher
RAM: Windows Vista / 7 - 2GB or higher
HDD 8GB or higher
NVIDIA GeForce 7800GT or similar graphics card or higher
DirectX 9.0c or higher
Broadband connection

[The Jackal]

These were the minimum requirements for the Alpha test version:

Minimum Requirements
Windows XP 32bit Japanese Language
Windows Vista / 7 32bit or 64bit Japanese Language
Intel Core 2 Duo E6300 or higher
RAM: Windows XP - 1.5GB or higher
RAM: Windows Vista / 7 - 2GB or higher
HDD 8GB or higher
NVIDIA GeForce 7800GT or similar graphics card or higher
DirectX 9.0c or higher
Broadband connection

Cheers, my PC needs to be updated a little, it seems, to run it.

[jerry coeurl]

Meh. I got sick of PSO back when I had it on Gamecube. I know some people really like that whole "hack, slash, loot, repeat" formula that these type of games offer, but it just isn't for me. I'd prefer a proper Phantasy Star but that's probably never gonna happen at this point... and it might be just as well, considering how the other revivals of classic Sega games turned out.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

Have you seen the gameplay for it though? It looks amazing.

I really don't get the fanbase who get's annoyed that Phantasy Star didn't remain a typical JRPG. There's no story elements to build off of the classic series with. There's nothing to make a Phantasy Star V with.

[jerry coeurl]

The could easily make a prequel, or an in-between title. There is lots of room, time-wise, between the games. When they announced Phantasy Star Zero I was really excited that they were going to be going back to the series roots with a prequel to the first game. And then of course it turned out to be more of the same (to me, very boring) thing they've been releasing since 1999.

Yeah, I would definitely have preferred PS to stay a typical JRPG, as opposed to the 3D Diablo clone it is today.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

Phantasy Star Zero is a prequel, it's a prequel to PSO.

And WoW is a 3D Diablo Clone, the gameplay in PSU and PSO2 is far more advanced than Diablo. I honestly do not see Phantasy Star doing well as a typical JRPG. It would have probably failed miserably against Final Fantasy VII+ and would be another dead and ignored Sega Franchise. Most people I've encountered who have the idea that Online Phantasy Star Sucks haven't seriously tried the online games, or they have only tried them offline, or they think they are all like PSO on the Dreamcast and Gamecube.

[jerry coeurl]

Phantasy Star Zero is a prequel, it's a prequel to PSO.

Uhh, yeah. I know. That's what I just said. I thought it was gonna be a prequel to Phantasy Star (as in, the Master System game) but it ended up being a part of the Phantasy Star Online games, which was a big disappointment for me.


And WoW is a 3D Diablo Clone, the gameplay in PSU and PSO2 is far more advanced than Diablo. I honestly do not see Phantasy Star doing well as a typical JRPG. It would have probably failed miserably against Final Fantasy VII+ and would be another dead and ignored Sega Franchise. Most people I've encountered who have the idea that Online Phantasy Star Sucks haven't seriously tried the online games, or they have only tried them offline, or they think they are all like PSO on the Dreamcast and Gamecube.

Phantasy Star Online v. 1 & 2 (the only version of the game I played) is exactly like Diablo; it's an online, limited-multiplayer based game that revolves around hack and slash combat with the primary incentive being getting new loot, so you can grind even further for newer, better loot. WoW is different, it's a proper MMO. I'm not a fan of either style of gameplay, to be honest.

I don't really care if Phantasy Star would have done well in a post-FFVII world or not. Panzer Dragoon Saga obviously didn't do as well as FFVII but it's still leagues better than it. What I care about is how good games are, not how well they're received critically, or whether or not they receive an annual sequel.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

A typical JRPG Phantasy Star would have been average at best. Look at the new Shining Force games Sega puts out, are those anywhere near as good as the Genesis and Saturn titles?

And notice that I said Phantasy Star Universe and Phantasy Star Online 2. Those are entirely different games. And I was talking about gameplay, WoW's gameplay is pretty much Diablo set to 3D. It feels clunky and broken as a result. At least in Phantasy Star I can dodge an enemies attack by simply moving out of the way.

[jerry coeurl]

A typical JRPG Phantasy Star would have been average at best. Look at the new Shining Force games Sega puts out, are those anywhere near as good as the Genesis and Saturn titles?

Skies of Arcadia was one of the best RPGs of its generation. You're telling me that the team that made that game couldn't have come up with a good Phantasy Star?

The issue I take with the new Shining Force games is exactly the issue I take with the new Phantasy Star games; they're using a classic franchise name to sell games that obviously have nothing to do with their source material. Plus they're just bad. That doesn't mean that if they tried to make a proper Shining Force as it was meant to be (a grid-based tactical RPG) it would turn out bad. They would just have to put some effort in to it (although Sega seems pretty loathe to do that these days).

[TrekkiesUnite118]

There's plenty of classic Phantasy Star in the online games. The look and feel is there, there's plenty of references old characters and places as well as events, the techniques and weapons are all there. All that's different are the setting and characters (obviously), and the gameplay was changed to take better advantage of the 3D and online capabilities of the Dreamcast.

[jerry coeurl]

All of the connections between Phantasy Star and Phantasy Star Online are superficial at best. Gameplay-wise, there are no similarities between them.

e: I didn't mean to get in a fight over this, I do see the merit in these games, they're just not for me. And I don't feel like they have any significant connections to the original series.

[The Jackal]

Are there any fan games that are based on the classic PS formula?

[TrekkiesUnite118]

The gameplay in Phantasy Star Online and Phantasy Star Universe is BETTER than the old Phantasy Stars.

As I said there is no story to build off of for a Phantasy Star V. Going back and making stories that take place in between them would run the risk of screwing up the story that already exists. If Sega had made a single player Phantasy Star, it probably would have been a brand new story with no connection to the old ones. And if you are ok with that, your argument about the connections between PSO and Classic Phantasy Star go completely out the window.

And Phantasy Star Universe has a bit more connections and references than PSO. There's even references to Phantasy Star III in PSU.

[jerry coeurl]

Are there any fan games that are based on the classic PS formula?

That's a good question. I have no idea.



The gameplay in Phantasy Star Online and Phantasy Star Universe is BETTER than the old Phantasy Stars.

Maybe to you. I prefer traditional, turn-based jrpgs that have a strong emphasis on plot and character development as opposed to online multiplayer stuff that is more about the collective, shared experience. Neither is objectively better, though; you just prefer the latter while I prefer the former.


As I said there is no story to build off of for a Phantasy Star V. Going back and making stories that take place in between them would run the risk of screwing up the story that already exists. If Sega had made a single player Phantasy Star, it probably would have been a brand new story with no connection to the old ones. And if you are ok with that, your argument about the connections between PSO and Classic Phantasy Star go completely out the window.

They could make a prequel to the first game, they could make a game that takes place during Phantasy Star III but actually place it in the Algo system... there are a lot of possibilities to make a Phantasy Star to fit the established canon if you're as creative as SEGA used to be.


And Phantasy Star Universe has a bit more connections and references than PSO. There's even references to Phantasy Star III in PSU.

Well I couldn't stand the voice acting, characters or story in PSU so I didn't play for very long, so this may be true. I'm not a huge fan of Phantasy Star III either, though, so that's kind of a moot point to me.

You never answered my question, though.


Skies of Arcadia was one of the best RPGs of its generation. You're telling me that the team that made that game couldn't have come up with a good Phantasy Star?

[TrekkiesUnite118]

A traditional Phantasy Star may have been ok, but it would have been weak in relation to the older titles, due to the lack of story to build off of. It would have been another Phantasy Star III most likely. Sega at this time was better at starting fresh with new ideas (Skies of Arcadia, Jet Set Radio) or rebooting older franchises (Sonic Adventure, Phantasy Star Online). Trying to build a sequel off of something they hadn't touched in over 7 years is a bit hard to do.

As for the references in PSU, in episode 2 and 3 the Planet Rykros appears in the Gurhal System with Dark Falz. You go to the planet and fight Dark Falz and on the planet you find items for your character that are not only from Phantasy Star Online but also from the classic series. You find Armor from the main characters of Phantasy Star III (Orakio Armor), you find Weapons from characters of Phantasy Star 2 and Phantasy Star IV(Nei's Claw, Rika's Claw, etc.).

The atmosphere of the games is still clearly Phantasy Star's atmosphere, the stories have similarities as well as some references, enemies, and bosses to keep old fans happy. Heck even the music has similarities:

W_kUlf-A870

c9UmpPeZx0U

DfHNBE3Z8Bo

BaAjnowJJyM

t9xFRp6tknU

[Melf]

I beat PSU and put over 400 hours into PSO on the DC and Xbox, and they didn't feel like Phantasy Star games to me at all. There are some elements that cross over, but the feel just wasn't there. I like to think of them as side stories or something and love them for what they are, but I refuse to believe that this is the permanent direction for the series.

The big problem I have with the PSO/PSU games is how they diluted the fan base by changing directions entirely, and then diluted it some more by making it pay-to-play, and then diluted it even MORE by putting it on handhelds. It's almost like they went down a checklist of how to alienate PS fans.

Many of the same people who worked on the PS games were involved with Skies of Arcadia (including Rieko Kodama). I'm sure they could make an excellent, true RPG if they wanted to. The problem isn't that they can't; it's that they don't want to.

[jerry coeurl]

I beat PSU and put over 400 hours into PSO on the DC and Xbox, and they didn't feel like Phantasy Star games to me at all. There are some elements that cross over, but the feel just wasn't there. I like to think of them as side stories or something and love them for what they are, but I refuse to believe that this is the permanent direction for the series.

Yeah, PSO never felt like Phantasy Star to me. Even though there are connections, they're more like easter eggs or callbacks than real, significant ties to the original games. I never hated PSO, it's good for what it is, but it really didn't need to have Phantasy Star in the title.


The big problem I have with the PSO/PSU games is how they diluted the fan base by changing directions entirely, and then diluted it some more by making it pay-to-play, and then diluted it even MORE by putting it on handhelds. It's almost like they went down a checklist of how to alienate PS fans.

Yeah, and now it's on smartphones, too. :D


Many of the same people who worked on the PS games were involved with Skies of Arcadia (including Rieko Kodama). I'm sure they could make an excellent, true RPG if they wanted to. The problem isn't that they can't; it's that they don't want to.

Exactly, I guess that's the point I'm trying to make. I probably wouldn't have such a problem with PSO if they had continued to make more traditional single-player RPGs as well, but now it's completely eclipsed and replaced the property that it's "based" on.

Thanks for chiming in, Melf!

[j_factor]

The problem I already have with the online Phantasy Star games, which this one isn't helping, is the fact that they're all over the place and difficult to keep track of. I enjoyed the initial PSO, but since then the series has been pretty discouraging. The situation with PSO Episode IV is particularly annoying.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

FYI, the smartphone version is more like an app that allows you to manage your inventory and shops, chat with friends, and play a single player mini-game with your character.

The Portable versions are PSU and PSO side stories. Considering how many people have DS systems and PSPs I think it's a bit stupid to say Sega was alienating fans, especially when you see how many platforms the online Phantasy Star games have been on. That list includes the following:

Dreamcast
Gamecube
Xbox
Playstation 2
Xbox 360
Nintendo DS
Playstation Portable
Playstation Vita
PC

That's not alienating fans, that's making it accessible to more people.

How do these games not feel like Phantasy Star? Please explain this one beyond "It just doesn't". The towns and cities feel like towns and cities from PSII and PSIV. The music in many instances has remixes of old Phantasy Star Music in it. The enemies in many cases are based on enemies from the old Phantasy Stars. The bosses look and feel like bosses form the classic Phantasy Star. The planets are obvious references to the Algol system, there are characters who are obvious references to classic Phantasy Star characters. The dungeons feel like they are taken straight out of PSII and PSIV.

Seriously, what is missing from these games that makes them not feel like Phantasy Star?

[jerry coeurl]

How do these games not feel like Phantasy Star? Please explain this one beyond "It just doesn't".

Well for starters, they aren't turned-based RPGs.

[ThugsRook]

smartphones are for stupidpeople.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

Well for starters, they aren't turned-based RPGs.

So the entire atmosphere of Phantasy Star solely depends on it being a turn-based RPG?

[Black_Tiger]

This is great news, and I might just buy it, but I really wish Sega would do a proper sequel to the original Phantasy Star.

I just hope that PSO2 has that special quality that PSO has but PSU was missing.

[jerry coeurl]

So the entire atmosphere of Phantasy Star solely depends on it being a turn-based RPG?

Not the entire atmosphere, no, but that's a big part of it. Gameplay is, to me, the most defining aspect of a game.

And there are other things, of course. There are no more fantasy (phantasy?) elements, it's full sci-fi. The environmental design feels completely different to me, aside from possibly the towns, of which there are like two. The only solid connections are remixes and weapon names, which don't amount to much more than simple references. There's nothing about these games that make me feel like they take place within the Phantasy Star continuity.

[TheSonicRetard]

Holy shit!! This is the first free to play PSO since the very, very first one. It seems even the client is being released for free, meaning you can download the full game on your PC, vita, or mobile device and start playing without paying a dime.

Info: (http://andriasang.com/con0dx/pso2_detailed/)

The big change from past PSO games as far as pricing goes is that PSO2 will be free-to download and play. It will use an item transaction system, meaning you'll need to pay for some items.

PC and Vita owners won't have the game all to themselves. Sega announced a smartphone version, which will be released on iOS and Android.

The smartphone version will be different from the PC and Vita version. The PC and Vita versions offer cross platform play. The smartphone version will just share data with the two versions

and some clarification by sega: (http://www.famitsu.com/news/201203/26012074.html)

- The Vita version of PSO2 will almost certainly not support actual online play using 3G. It will support online play over WiFi, but for 3G they are working on other supplementary forms of communication hooks.

- With regards to microtransactions, there will be two types of pay content. Some content like cosmetic clothing and so on can be traded with other users in a User Shop, but there will also be pay content which cannot be traded.

In the original article they also clarify their policy regarding the free 2 play structure of the game:

- There will be no level restrictions for classes and so on to force players to pay.

- They will NOT introduce pay items at high cost which provide high stats to unbalance the game to the benefit of paying customers.

Everything that has been said about this game points to it being a smash hit, but this pricing structure is a game changer. This is going to be fucking great!

[jerry coeurl]

Ahem. (http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?20524-Phantasy-Star-Online-2-will-be-Free-to-Play!) ;)

[TrekkiesUnite118]

There's plenty of fantasy elements in Phantasy Star Universe. The Communion of Gurhal has a very similar feel to the Espers and Esper Mansion in Phantasy Star IV. Their leader is Lord Rutsu, which when you take into consideration the rather literal translation of names PSU got, it's rather obvious that it's supposed to be Lutz. In fact almost all of Neudaiz has a fantasy feel to it. Then there's the ruins in PSO and Dark Falz. That's rather Fantasy Heavy. But this heavily depends on your definition of Fantasy. In my opinion the PSO games aren't entirely sci fi, as I see entirely Sci Fi as meaning Eve or Star Trek Online.

As for the environments not being the same, Moatoob in PSU is pretty much identical to Motavia, Parum is identical to Parma. The only one missing is Dezoris, but Neudaiz is rather like a melted Dezoris. PSU's environments are pretty much a hybrid of Phantasy Star 2 and Phantasy Star 4.

As for a lack of connections there's plenty of them in PSU. For example the leader of the Rogues is Tylor and the ship he has is called *gasp* the Landeel. The plot and characters of Phantasy Star Universe is could easily be interpreted as an alternate reality Classic Phantasy Star.

You're right in that they don't take place in the Classic Phantasy Star story line, but that doesn't make them not Phantasy Star games. That's like saying Final Fantasy VI isn't a real Final Fantasy because it doesn't take place in the Final Fantasy IV continuity.

[StarMist]

Are there any fan games that are based on the classic PS formula?
There are two PSII hacks by the same chap, one titled something like Numan Revolution and the other something like Evil Overload; the former being supposedly easier than the true game, the latter harder. What both add are story developments/fleshing, eg to Teim and Darum//the bandits with the dynamite scenario, much more straightforward information at the outset, Easter eggs that presumably fill out other aspects of plot, backstory (not sure if it's taken from the old online gaiden), and I believe secret endings. Equipment is also overhauled, conspicuously the guns' power being raised early on (but if you thought their weakness something to complain about you don't know how to play the game--perhaps he's just a gun fancier though), money and exp made easier to come by, levels perhaps rising faster, and so on...which sort of changes begat the Evil Overload hack to counterweight having made it too easy before. An enemy or two have been restored from unused status on the ROM whilst more have been added by way of palette swap. I don't recall whether objects in dungeons have been shuffled about. The reason I can't speak more definitely on the hacks is that all these story changes were too much for my taste when conjoined with the crude fashion in which enemy palettes were swapped to make new variants: it looks like using the inversion settings on camera lab software. Nonetheless they should be worth investigating to someone.
---Oh yes, I have also tried a fan made game done with RPG Maker and based on PS1. Don't look into it.

[TheSonicRetard]

Ahem. (http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?20524-Phantasy-Star-Online-2-will-be-Free-to-Play!) ;)

Well son of a bitch. I ctrl-F'd for PSO on the front page and got nothing and thought there was no topic. My bad.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

It was literally right at the top of the Insert Coin forum.

Though I should probably tell you that the SmartPhone version will pretty much be an app to let you manage inventory, your shop, chat with friends, and play a minigame with your character. Not really the full game. And they are still skeptical on Vita Cross play. I think they mentioned in the press release that they may drop the idea if it doesn't test well or if it has problems.

[TheSonicRetard]

It was literally right at the top of the Insert Coin forum.

Though I should probably tell you that the SmartPhone version will pretty much be an app to let you manage inventory, your shop, chat with friends, and play a minigame with your character. Not really the full game. And they are still skeptical on Vita Cross play. I think they mentioned in the press release that they may drop the idea if it doesn't test well or if it has problems.

They've already release screenshots of the mobile version. It's not exactly the same, but it's still the full game. It's not just a companion app.

And PC-PSV cross play is already confirmed.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

That's the single player mini game they are showing. It is not the full multiplayer game. And the cross play hasn't been 100% confirmed last I checked, which was earlier today. They pretty much said they plan to do it, but if it doesn't test well they'll drop it.

[Melf]

The Portable versions are PSU and PSO side stories. Considering how many people have DS systems and PSPs I think it's a bit stupid to say Sega was alienating fans, especially when you see how many platforms the online Phantasy Star games have been on. That list includes the following:

Dreamcast
Gamecube
Xbox
Playstation 2
Xbox 360
Nintendo DS
Playstation Portable
Playstation Vita
PC

That's not alienating fans, that's making it accessible to more people.

So by offering different versions of the game (PS Ep. 2 on DC, Blue Burst on PC, etc.) on a multitude of platforms - none of which are compatible with each other and none of which are true sequels to the first 4 games in the series, that's not alienating PS fans? Does Sega expect people to buy a whole new version of the same game every time they recycle it? Sega basically made PSO, released the same core game everywhere, had no consistency in add-ons and DLC, and then took the whole series off consoles. Anyone who wanted to play anything Phantasy Star now had to buy a portable system or pay to play. That's a pretty far stretch from the series roots.


How do these games not feel like Phantasy Star? Please explain this one beyond "It just doesn't". The towns and cities feel like towns and cities from PSII and PSIV. The music in many instances has remixes of old Phantasy Star Music in it. The enemies in many cases are based on enemies from the old Phantasy Stars. The bosses look and feel like bosses form the classic Phantasy Star. The planets are obvious references to the Algol system, there are characters who are obvious references to classic Phantasy Star characters. The dungeons feel like they are taken straight out of PSII and PSIV.

The "town" (read: lobby) in PSO feels NOTHING like the towns in the original PS games. Yeah, it fits the town description by having a hospital and stores, but it's essentially a meeting place and little else. Plus, it's the same lobby every time you play, since there's only one. That's nothing like the towns in the main games, with their variety of locations and population.

The enemies and dungeons (the few that there are) are probably as close as you'll get to the original games, and they aren't that close. From what I remember, there aren't any classic enemies in the game, are there? The bosses are cool, and the final boss in PSO is awesome; I'll give it that.

The gameplay is about as far off as possible. We go from turn-based fighting with a party of 4 to three-button mashing using a single character. There's ZERO character development, and the plot is held together by the thinnest of threads. Moreover, the whole technique combination dynamic from PSIV is gone and replaced by a simple button press for a single spell. How can you say the turn-based gameplay is part of the atmosphere? It's the core dynamic around which everything else is built. Hitting "normal shot, normal shot, charge shot" doesn't remind me at all of any of the original games, because that's not at all how they played.

My main problem with these offshoots is that while they do remind you of the original games, that's really as far as it goes. The more I played them, the more I wanted a traditional RPG. You could really remove the PS name from these games and no one would notice. Your own post makes my point for me. Things are "based on" and are "references to" things from the original games; they are not FROM the original games. Anyone who plays PS2 after the first game can clearly see the connection, the same with going from PS2 to PSIV. You don't get that at all from going from PSIV to the online games. They're totally different. The references just reinforce the whole side story feel.

[j_factor]

The Portable versions are PSU and PSO side stories. Considering how many people have DS systems and PSPs I think it's a bit stupid to say Sega was alienating fans, especially when you see how many platforms the online Phantasy Star games have been on. That list includes the following:

Dreamcast
Gamecube
Xbox
Playstation 2
Xbox 360
Nintendo DS
Playstation Portable
Playstation Vita
PC

That's not alienating fans, that's making it accessible to more people.

Each of these platforms has one to three releases out of many distinct iterations of the series. It's not accessible, it's confusing. Let's review a timeline of releases:

2001: PSO for DC, PSO ver. 2 for DC and PC (Asia only)
2002: PSO Episodes I & II for GC -- Episode II is not Version 2, in fact Episode I is basically Version 2 and Episode II is new
2003: PSO Episodes I & II ported to Xbox, requires Xbox Live even for offline play
2004: PSO Episode III for GC only, PSO Episodes I & II Plus for GC only
2005: PSO Blue Burst, a way late PC port of Episodes I & II that no one cares about, along with PC-exclusive Episode IV (wtf), released only via download (wtf)
2006: PSU for PC, PS2, and 360
2007: PSU: Ambition of the Illuminus for PC, PS2, and 360, PC and PS2 versions are standalone but don't include the original PSU episode
2009: Phantasy Star Zero for DS, Phantasy Star Portable for PSP
2010: Phantasy Star Portable 2 for PSP

...How on Earth does this make sense? It's a clusterfuck.

[gamevet]

These were the minimum requirements for the Alpha test version:

Minimum Requirements
Windows XP 32bit Japanese Language
Windows Vista / 7 32bit or 64bit Japanese Language
Intel Core 2 Duo E6300 or higher
RAM: Windows XP - 1.5GB or higher
RAM: Windows Vista / 7 - 2GB or higher
HDD 8GB or higher
NVIDIA GeForce 7800GT or similar graphics card or higher
DirectX 9.0c or higher
Broadband connection


Cheers, my PC needs to be updated a little, it seems, to run it.

Both of my PCs would run this, but there's one problem....... It's for Japan only!

[TrekkiesUnite118]

First of all PSO:BB and the PC versions of PSU were free to download. Second of all the original PC version of PSO WAS compatible with the Dreamcast version. The reason the GC and DC versions couldn't play together was the game had new areas and new weapons added as well as the fact the game was completely rebalanced (Being a force was no longer pointless in Ultimate). The reason GC and Xbox couldn't play together was Xbox Live. The reason BB and GC couldn't play together was again rebalancing, new areas and weapons, and the fact that account data was now stored serverside as opposed to client side. It wasn't due to wanting to alienate the fanbase, it was due to radical changes in the game that couldn't have been applied to the previous versions due to a lack of a means to store updates. Remember GC and DC discs could only store about 1.2 GB of data. PSOBB takes up more than that last I checked.

As for PSU, PC and PS2 could play together. The only reason 360 couldn't play with them was because of Microsoft and Xbox Live. Which by the way PSU has an offline mode that's free to play. And the PC version also has a free mode to allow you to play online for free. No offense, but if you guys played these games seriously, you'd be well aware of these facts.

As for the portable games, you have no one but the fans to blame for those. Fans were begging for years for a PSO on their DS or PSP. Sega gave it to them.

As for Pioneer 2 not feeling like Classic Phantasy Star, sure it might not look like the primitive graphics the Master System and early Genesis games used, but it does look rather close to the concept art for Phantasy Star II:

http://www.wallchan.com/images/sandbox/60435-pso,-pioneer2.jpg

http://lparchive.org/Phantasy-Star-2/Update%2023/img-1.jpg

And PSUs towns again feel similar to those from Phantasy Star 4 as well as the concept art for Phantasy Star 2. And there are more variations of the Cities. First of all theres the Episode 2 and 3 versions of Pioneer 2. In PSU there's about 4 different cities and countless different lobbies and hubs.

As for enemies there's Rappies, Grass Assassins, Sand Worms, Robots, and plenty of other enemies that may not be direct references, but still have a look and feel of Phantasy Star. For the record, I don't remember there being too many similar enemies in the classic Phantasy Stars either, save for a select few memorable ones and bosses.

As for gameplay, I never said they were the same. However just because now it's a real time combat online RPG doesn't make it any less of a Phantasy Star game. Does FFXI being online make it less of a Final Fantasy? Do the dramatic changes in the battle systems from FF1 to FF13 make them any less Final Fantasies? Sega changing Phantasy Star to make it work in the new era of 3D and online gaming doesn't make the games any less Phantasy Star than their predecessors. The atmosphere is still there. It's just a multiplayer online adventure as opposed to single player RPG. These complaints seem to be based entirely on PSO v1 on the Dreamcast and nothing else.

Melf, you said you put 400 hours into PSO on the Dreamcast and Xbox and beat PSU Episode 1. Well guess what, I put well over 2000 hours into GC PSO on ONE character. I put even more than that into PSO:BB and even more than that into PSU on PC and 360. I ask did you even try these games online? That's where the bulk of the games content resides. That's where all the unique quests, the rest of the story, the items, the enemies, the new areas, etc. all are. If you only played offline Episode 1 of PSU, then you only experienced less than 20% of what the game had to offer.

We are not debating whether or not these games are sequels to Phantasy Star IV. We are debating if they are Phantasy Star games, meaning do they have a distinct look and feel that can be defined as Phantasy Star. And I say they have it. Yes, they are not turn based RPGs anymore, but that's gameplay, not atmosphere and character. That's like saying Metroid Prime doesn't have the look and feel of a Metroid game because it's not a 2D side scroller.

And j_factor it makes perfect sense if you were around playing the games at the time of the release.

PSO ver 1. and 2. were released on Dreamcast as killer apps. Ver 2 was released to fix bugs and increase the level cap and content. It was done this way because there was no way to store updates on the Dreamcast.

Episode 1 and 2 would have most likely been released on the Dreamcast if it had not been for the Dreamcast failing in 2001. It was instead released on Gamecube, the system Sonic Team preferred after the Dreamcast. Episode 1 and 2 Plus is like PSO Ver. 2. It fixes some bugs and adds some offline content.

The Xbox version was done to probably try and make the game available to more people. Since the Gamecube's online support wasn't that good.

PSO Episode 3 was a throwback to the turn based Phantasy Stars and had a bit more of a single player story aspect to it.

Phantasy Star Online Blue Burst was done in response to the hacking incidents on GC PSO. There were dramatic changes done to the server structure to prevent hacking that couldn't have been cleanly put on the Gamecube due to the lack of a means to store updates.

PSU was released on PS2 and PC due to the PS2 being the most popular online console in Japan. The 360 port was an after thought for the US market.

Ambiton of the Illuminus isn't a brand new game, it's an expansion pack. The PC/PS2 version is stand alone simply to make it easier for people to get into the online game, and the fact the PS2 can't really do an expansion pack without HDD support. Oh, and the Version 1 content is there in AotI, it's just only available online.

And I already explained the portable games. Fans begged for it, Sega gave it to them.


Both of my PCs would run this, but there's one problem....... It's for Japan only!

You can play the Japanese version on a US PC.

[j_factor]

And j_factor it makes perfect sense if you were around playing the games at the time of the release.

PSO ver 1. and 2. were released on Dreamcast as killer apps. Ver 2 was released to fix bugs and increase the level cap and content. It was done this way because there was no way to store updates on the Dreamcast.

Episode 1 and 2 would have most likely been released on the Dreamcast if it had not been for the Dreamcast failing in 2001. It was instead released on Gamecube, the system Sonic Team preferred after the Dreamcast. Episode 1 and 2 Plus is like PSO Ver. 2. It fixes some bugs and adds some offline content.

The Xbox version was done to probably try and make the game available to more people. Since the Gamecube's online support wasn't that good.

PSO Episode 3 was a throwback to the turn based Phantasy Stars and had a bit more of a single player story aspect to it.

Phantasy Star Online Blue Burst was done in response to the hacking incidents on GC PSO. There were dramatic changes done to the server structure to prevent hacking that couldn't have been cleanly put on the Gamecube due to the lack of a means to store updates.

PSU was released on PS2 and PC due to the PS2 being the most popular online console in Japan. The 360 port was an after thought for the US market.

Ambiton of the Illuminus isn't a brand new game, it's an expansion pack. The PC/PS2 version is stand alone simply to make it easier for people to get into the online game, and the fact the PS2 can't really do an expansion pack without HDD support. Oh, and the Version 1 content is there in AotI, it's just only available online.

And I already explained the portable games. Fans begged for it, Sega gave it to them.

It still doesn't make sense that they made Episode III a Gamecube exclusive, and then Episode IV a PC download exclusive. Especially when they didn't already have a base of PC users (why didn't they port Eps I & II to PC in 2002 or 2003?). Why put Episode III and PSO Plus on Gamecube and then snub the system immediately after? Why no Gamecube release of Episode IV? Or ANY console? They could have made "PSO Complete" containing all four episodes for Wii or Xbox 360 or PS3. Why not even have a retail release of Blue Burst? Why was it so low-key and poorly promoted?

[jerry coeurl]

And I say they have it.

Well, obviously Melf and myself disagree.


Yes, they are not turn based RPGs anymore, but that's gameplay, not atmosphere and character. That's like saying Metroid Prime doesn't have the look and feel of a Metroid game because it's not a 2D side scroller.

This is a bad example. The gameplay in Metroid Prime is pretty much identical to the earlier games, it's just been transplanted into a 3D environment. Whereas Phantasy Star Online plays nothing like PS I - IV. Metroid Prime does have the look and feel of a Metroid game, it just isn't 2D anymore (it still has just as many platforming elements, though).

PSO is not a good replacement for Phantasy Star because it's not the same type of game.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

PSO is still an RPG. It still has the Phantasy Star look and feel. It still has everything it needs to identify itself as Phantasy Star. It's just multiplayer now.

We are not talking about gameplay here, we are talking about look and feel. Your entire basis for what defines Phantasy Star is Sci-Fi turnbased JRPG. Going by that logic that puts so many random games into the category of Phantasy Star it's not even funny. There is more to Phantasy Star than it being a turnbased JRPG. And it's those aspects that the online Phantasy Stars still have.

The online Phantasy Stars still have the distinctive Phantasy Star Art style, they still have the Phantasy Star lore (items, spells, races, names, classes, organizations, etc.), they still have the same style of music, and they still have the same style of setting. The character the games have is defined as that of Phantasy Star. If you were to take Phantasy Star IV and rip out the turn based battle system and replace it with something like an action game, you'd still have a game you could call Phantasy Star IV. I fail to see why the online games are any different.

[jerry coeurl]

PSO is still an RPG. It still has the Phantasy Star look and feel. It still has everything it needs to identify itself as Phantasy Star. It's just multiplayer now.

PSO is an online, multiplayer action-RPG with little emphasis on story. Phantasy Star IV is a single-player, turn-based tradition JRPG with a strong story and lots of character development. The type of experience each title offers is completely different, whether you want to admit that to yourself or not.


We are not talking about gameplay here, we are talking about look and feel. Your entire basis for what defines Phantasy Star is Sci-Fi turnbased JRPG. Going by that logic that puts so many random games into the category of Phantasy Star it's not even funny.

Shame on me for thinking the defining characteristic of a game should be its gameplay. :roll:

By your logic, Sonic R is the same type of game as Sonic 2 because it features many of the same characters and you can pick up rings.


The online Phantasy Stars still have the distinctive Phantasy Star Art style, they still have the Phantasy Star lore (items, spells, races, names, classes, organizations, etc.), they still have the same style of music, and they still have the same style of setting. The character the games have is defined as that of Phantasy Star.

And as I and others have said, these things amount to little more than window dressing.


If you were to take Phantasy Star IV and rip out the turn based battle system and replace it with something like an action game, you'd still have a game you could call Phantasy Star IV. I fail to see why the online games are any different.

Yeah, you could call it that, but it wouldn't be Phantasy Star IV anymore. It would be a different game. It would play much differently. I don't know why this is so hard for you to grasp. PSO does not play like Phantasy Star.

[Curryman123]

Old school PS ftw

[jerry coeurl]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Curryman123 again.

Ah, well. Cheers anyway!

[TrekkiesUnite118]

I never said it was the same exact type of game. That's the problem here. You are saying what makes a Phantasy Star game a Phantasy Star game is entirely based on it's specific genre.

Your example is flawed. Sonic R is not a 2D Side-Scrolling Sonic, I don't think anyone here will try to tell you otherwise. It is still a Sonic game however. It still has characteristics that can be identified as only Sonic. Phantasy Star Online may not be an old school turn based RPG on the Genesis. It's still a Phantasy Star game though. It still as characteristics that can be identified only as Phantasy Star. That's the point.

[jerry coeurl]

I never said it was the same exact type of game. That's the problem here. You are saying what makes a Phantasy Star game a Phantasy Star game is entirely based on it's specific genre.

So? That's how I feel. I don't think Sonic Spinball or 3D Blast are proper Sonic games either. They are only Sonic games in the most superficial sense of the word.


Your example is flawed. Sonic R is not a 2D Side-Scrolling Sonic, I don't think anyone here will try to tell you otherwise. It is still a Sonic game however. It still has characteristics that can be identified as only Sonic.

What characteristics? What makes it a Sonic game besides the fact that it features the characters?


Phantasy Star Online may not be an old school turn based RPG on the Genesis. It's still a Phantasy Star game though. It still as characteristics that can be identified only as Phantasy Star. That's the point.

What is characteristic of Phantasy Star to me is a strong narrative, interesting characters with enough development to feel well-rounded, the unique sci-fi/fantasy setting, and a turn-based battle system. PSO only has one of those things, and barely at that since they went way too heavy on the sci-fi. The weapon & technique names are pretty inconsequential; as I said before, they are just Phantasy Star themed window dressing. It lost the Phantasy Star feeling to me, and I know I'm not alone in that stance.

[StarMist]

Phantasy Star's characteristics are its theme (man vs dark force), its setting (poshlost mixture of scifi amenities and evils; the charming cities, the intriguing artifacts/dungeons, the evil biomonsters), its typical characters, and a dreamy-sad atmosphere which was fairly consistent through 2-3-4. Last but not the least characteristic is the battle system and its elements: the ability to select a group type to attack but not the individual within that group, gun advantage against mechs and highly armored foes, an unusually open equipment selection for each character along with dual equipping (two knives instead of a sword/gun, two staves instead of a staff and shield, two shields forsaking the capacity to attack), an unusually relevant support magic system, along with certain idiosyncratic spell developments (res, gires, nares; zan, gizan, nazan; &c). What formed the groundwork of all these elements was the menu system. There's no need for PS combat to involve turn based combat, it need only be menu based. Real time would be wholly possible in somethng like Blue Breaker's system (think Star Ocean 2 minus half the mess), essentially with characters going into the automatic battle mode PS2 has for a couple rounds before they could be given a new command. There are innumerable gradations that could've been done here, but the point to keeping the menu system is that in classic RPGs battle composes the body of character personality. Amy is a shy, meek nurse: in combat she chiefly defends, uses support magic/objects, and heals. Rolf is a soldier and a leader: his combat magic is the most rounded and ultimately the most powerful, which likewise describes his weapon class the swords. Rudo is a rugged hunter: he takes the least maintenance in combat and in certain none too rare circumstances is the most effective fighter. Nei is a half monster/animal: untamed, she refuses the more cumbersome equipment Rolf offers her, and she fights like a beast with near extensions of her hands and surprsing power. And so on. Phantasy Star III modified this degree of distinction through its malleable tek system (the 4 coloured box) but it was pretty much the same; PS4 returned to form a bit but slightly blurred everything with its shortness and ease. One other thing to menu based combat is that its presentation is dramatic. Whether one's party is visible and has full actions (PS2) or invisible with mere splash effects (PS3, games like Might and Magic, AD&D, Soul Hackers, so on), the enemy is presented large and upfront and with total absorption rather than one's just running about in the scenery. That hack and slash style presentation is what makes PSO and others of its sort so unengaging.

[Metalwario64]

Uh... I strongly apologize if this sounds rude, but I really am struggling to read that. There are no paragraph breaks, which makes that very difficult to read without it seeming like an overwhelming wall of text. Sorry, but just wanted to point that out since it seems you're making some detailed points.

[gamevet]

You can play the Japanese version on a US PC.

Do you know how to read Ken-Jin?

I've played with Japanese players (on the American servers) with PSO on the DC; it was not cool.

[Melf]

First of all PSO:BB and the PC versions of PSU were free to download. Second of all the original PC version of PSO WAS compatible with the Dreamcast version. The reason the GC and DC versions couldn't play together was the game had new areas and new weapons added as well as the fact the game was completely rebalanced (Being a force was no longer pointless in Ultimate). The reason GC and Xbox couldn't play together was Xbox Live. The reason BB and GC couldn't play together was again rebalancing, new areas and weapons, and the fact that account data was now stored serverside as opposed to client side. It wasn't due to wanting to alienate the fanbase, it was due to radical changes in the game that couldn't have been applied to the previous versions due to a lack of a means to store updates. Remember GC and DC discs could only store about 1.2 GB of data. PSOBB takes up more than that last I checked.

This is exactly what I meant. Sega never gave the same experience to everyone, and they chopped it up and distributed it among a bunch of platforms. That's exactly how you alienate fans. Again, how many times do they expect players to download or buy the same game?


As for PSU, PC and PS2 could play together. The only reason 360 couldn't play with them was because of Microsoft and Xbox Live. Which by the way PSU has an offline mode that's free to play. And the PC version also has a free mode to allow you to play online for free. No offense, but if you guys played these games seriously, you'd be well aware of these facts.

Um, where did anyone say anything to the contrary? Does the gameplay, presentation and atmosphere completely change when you play it online? That's what's being debated here, not how well offline PSO/PSU plays compared to online PSO/PSU.


As for the portable games, you have no one but the fans to blame for those. Fans were begging for years for a PSO on their DS or PSP. Sega gave it to them.

That doesn't mean they have to snub everyone else. It's not like these games are so massively complex in scope that they can't spare the resources to make a traditional RPG, something they've been doing literally for decades.


As for Pioneer 2 not feeling like Classic Phantasy Star, sure it might not look like the primitive graphics the Master System and early Genesis games used, but it does look rather close to the concept art for Phantasy Star II:

Perhaps, but I was judging by what was in the actual games, not the concept art they're based on. Many things in the original PS games don't look much like their concept art.


And PSUs towns again feel similar to those from Phantasy Star 4 as well as the concept art for Phantasy Star 2. And there are more variations of the Cities. First of all theres the Episode 2 and 3 versions of Pioneer 2. In PSU there's about 4 different cities and countless different lobbies and hubs.

This was the same PSU game that plays nothing like the original games and is pay-to-play? How many PS fans do you think actually paid to see all that? I'm sure a lot more never got to because Sega changed the entire style of the series and then charged to play it. That goes back to my original point of alienating fans. It's a shame then, that fans would have to make those kinds of adaptions just to experience ANYTHING with the PS name on it, especially when they've been clamoring for a true sequel for years.


As for enemies there's Rappies, Grass Assassins, Sand Worms, Robots, and plenty of other enemies that may not be direct references, but still have a look and feel of Phantasy Star. For the record, I don't remember there being too many similar enemies in the classic Phantasy Stars either, save for a select few memorable ones and bosses.

The difference is much more notable when nothing else in the game resembles the franchise on which it's based. I'm a lot more forgiving of PSIV not having the exact same enemies as PS1 or 2 because the game is a direct sequel and plays the same. When you change everything that makes a series well-known and then add some casual references to the source material, it makes it seem more like a homage than an evolution.


As for gameplay, I never said they were the same. However just because now it's a real time combat online RPG doesn't make it any less of a Phantasy Star game. Does FFXI being online make it less of a Final Fantasy? Do the dramatic changes in the battle systems from FF1 to FF13 make them any less Final Fantasies? Sega changing Phantasy Star to make it work in the new era of 3D and online gaming doesn't make the games any less Phantasy Star than their predecessors. The atmosphere is still there. It's just a multiplayer online adventure as opposed to single player RPG. These complaints seem to be based entirely on PSO v1 on the Dreamcast and nothing else.

FF11 is no more a true FF game than PSO and PSU are true PS games. I'd think the sales numbers on it and the unmitigated disaster that FF14 has been would be evidence enough of that. Comparing FF1 to FF13 only makes my point, as they're both still single-player, turn-based RPGs. In fact, the battle system in FF13 is based on the one introduced in FFIV. It's been tweaked and adapted, but it's still familiar and in the same vein as the games that came before it. See? Square changes the characters and worlds and still manages to keep the series together because the core elements of what makes it so successful are kept in place. PSO went in an entirely different direction that plays nothing like its predecessors. Sega didn't just make PS "work" in 3D and online, it completely changed the game. If you consider a single-character button masher is the same as a traditional, turn-based RPG, then I don't know what to tell you.

And my complaints are on the games I've played, which are both DC PSOs, Xbox PSO, PS Zero on DS, and PSU on the Xbox 360. I think that qualifies me enough to form an opinion. ;)


Melf, you said you put 400 hours into PSO on the Dreamcast and Xbox and beat PSU Episode 1. Well guess what, I put well over 2000 hours into GC PSO on ONE character. I put even more than that into PSO:BB and even more than that into PSU on PC and 360. I ask did you even try these games online? That's where the bulk of the games content resides. That's where all the unique quests, the rest of the story, the items, the enemies, the new areas, etc. all are. If you only played offline Episode 1 of PSU, then you only experienced less than 20% of what the game had to offer.

All the games I mentioned above were played online. I beat PSU's single-player and played it online as well. So yes, I do know what I'm talking about. It doesn't take away from my point though. Do PSO/PSU become entirely new games with different gameplay once you go online? No. I'm sure the expansion for PSU is probably an awesome PSU game, but it's not a traditional PS game, which is my whole point. I'm also wondering why, if this PSU is such a great way to go, that Sega never released a sequel? The servers for the PS2 and PC versions are shut down as well, so if you don't own a portable or want to pay on Xbox Live, no Phantasy Star at all for you. :(


We are not debating whether or not these games are sequels to Phantasy Star IV. We are debating if they are Phantasy Star games, meaning do they have a distinct look and feel that can be defined as Phantasy Star. And I say they have it.

No one's saying they aren't Phantasy Star games (if you read my original post again, you'll see that I said they felt more like side stories). What I'm saying is that I don't consider them to be direct sequels or the true evolution of the franchise because they are so completely different than the originals. The online direction and tradtional RPG formats should not be mutually exclusive. Going back to your Final Fantasy comparison, did Square nix the traditional RPGs once FF11 came out? No, and why do you think they didn't?


Yes, they are not turn based RPGs anymore, but that's gameplay, not atmosphere and character. That's like saying Metroid Prime doesn't have the look and feel of a Metroid game because it's not a 2D side scroller.

I'd have to ask you if you've played the MP games, as they're essentially just 3D Metroids. EVERYTHING that made the originals is there: the exploration, the same abilities, the same characters (not mere references) - everything has remianed. Prime is definitely a true sequel to the original 2D games. The only difference is that they made it first-person. Metroid is actually mroe of an example of the direction I think Sega should have gone with the PS series - keep everything fans love intact, just move it to 3D, so again, your example only serves to strengthen my point.


PSO is still an RPG. It still has the Phantasy Star look and feel. It still has everything it needs to identify itself as Phantasy Star. It's just multiplayer now.

We are not talking about gameplay here, we are talking about look and feel. Your entire basis for what defines Phantasy Star is Sci-Fi turnbased JRPG. Going by that logic that puts so many random games into the category of Phantasy Star it's not even funny. There is more to Phantasy Star than it being a turnbased JRPG. And it's those aspects that the online Phantasy Stars still have.

The online Phantasy Stars still have the distinctive Phantasy Star Art style, they still have the Phantasy Star lore (items, spells, races, names, classes, organizations, etc.), they still have the same style of music, and they still have the same style of setting. The character the games have is defined as that of Phantasy Star. If you were to take Phantasy Star IV and rip out the turn based battle system and replace it with something like an action game, you'd still have a game you could call Phantasy Star IV. I fail to see why the online games are any different.

Yes, you could remove the battle system and still call it PSIV, because of the massive exploration, cohesive plot, and multiple characters. The problem I have with the online games have none of that. If we remove the concept art similarites and name homages, how are they still true PS games? Going back to your Metroid comparison, that game was moved into an entirely new dimension, yet is definitely played and felt like a Metroid game. If we remove the names from the items and monsters in PSO/PSU, they just don't feel like true PS games.


I never said it was the same exact type of game. That's the problem here. You are saying what makes a Phantasy Star game a Phantasy Star game is entirely based on it's specific genre.

Personally, I think they are PS games, just not true heirs to the original series. Like I said, I feel these are more like an offshoot, much like FF11 is to the rest of the series or the way Mega Man X is to the original series. It's a franchise in its own right, but it shouldn't be considered the replacement. If it is, then it's just another example of how far removed Sega has gotten from what made the company so great.


Your example is flawed. Sonic R is not a 2D Side-Scrolling Sonic, I don't think anyone here will try to tell you otherwise. It is still a Sonic game however. It still has characteristics that can be identified as only Sonic. Phantasy Star Online may not be an old school turn based RPG on the Genesis. It's still a Phantasy Star game though. It still as characteristics that can be identified only as Phantasy Star. That's the point.

Would you consider Sonic 3D Blast a true sequel to Sonic & Knuckles? Sega didn't, hence Sonic 4 being released as a download title.

I think we're probably just arguing the same thing from different directions though. I do believe that PSO is a PS game, just not part of the main series and not a true sequel. I hope we someday get a PS5, but with today's Sega...

[TrekkiesUnite118]

I never said PSO or PSU were sequels to Phantasy Star IV. I am saying they are however Phantasy Star games. You guys somehow misinterpreted that to mean they were sequels to Phantasy Star IV. That's not my fault. Sonic R and Sonic 3D Blast may not be true sequels to Sonic 3 & Knuckles, they are however still Sonic games and have the characteristics of Sonic games to back that claim up.

PSO and PSU may not be direct sequels to Phantasy Star IV, but they still have many of the characteristics required to make them be Phantasy Star games. As for your example of removing names, items, setting, etc. from PSO/PSU, what would remain of Phantasy Star IV if you changed the characters names, the setting, the names of items and spells, the enemies, etc.? You'd be left with a generic turn based RPG that would feel nothing like Phantasy Star.

And yes, the PSO/PSU games do change dramatically online. For example, in PSU there's 2 more episodes of single player story that's only available online that gives more character development and plot. There's also tons of side story quests that again give you more plot development. As for no sequels, they did make them, it's called the expansion pack Ambition of the Illuminus which makes the online Episode 2 story available offline, and then there's the portable series which take place after Episode 3 of PSU and in between Episode 1 and 2 of PSU.

PSOBB's online mode added multiplayer story quests on top of the single player quests that give the game a bit more plot. And Episode 4 is rather story driven itself.

And again, the different releases weren't done to alienate the fanbase. The reason for multiple releases has to do with the limitations that became evident of their platforms. You couldn't update PSO on consoles without releasing a new version on a new disc. Meaning you couldn't even patch bugs people were using to cheat and hack other players. They tried releasing new versions, but that didn't help the situation since you still had tons of people on the older versions. Finally they put it on PC and moved all player data to the servers. This fixed pretty much all the severe hacking and cheating issues but at the cost of making it incompatible with previous versions for obvious reasons. There were still plenty of people who moved to those versions.

Before PSOBB came out there were thousands on GC and Xbox PSO. After PSOBB came out there were under 100 people still left on those versions as they had all moved to PSOBB. With PSU, there's well over 200,000 players on the US Xbox servers, and there were about that much on the US PC/PS2 servers as well. The Japanese servers have significantly more than that though. Considering that none of classic Phantasy Star titles ever sold over 1 million copies, I'd say it's safe to say that most of the Classic Phantasy Star fanbase was in fact playing PSO/PSU online.

Oh, and as for the towns in the classic games not looking like the concept art, that has more to do with the Master System and Genesis not really being able to properly show those concepts. Do you really wish that a new Phantasy Star would have towns that all look a like with the same buildings sparsely repeated over and over?



Do you know how to read Ken-Jin?

I've played with Japanese players (on the American servers) with PSO on the DC; it was not cool.

I currently play the Japanese PC version of Phantasy Star Universe. It's rather easy to figure out actually. Everything is in Katakana, meaning it's all English names written in Japanese characters. Playing with Japanese players isn't that difficult either, in fact I've had many try to talk to me in English on numerous occasions. There's also a rather large import community of English speaking players.

[gamevet]

Judging by my experience with playing with Japanese players, most type out stuff in their own language. I recall 1 or 2 players that had limited English skills and would do their best to try to speak with you, but those were very few.

I'm not buying a game that I won't understand the language in, especially one that is based around being social.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

Even if it's 100% free and there's a thriving import community?

http://forums.sega.com/forumdisplay.php?303-PSU-%28JP-PC-General%29

[gamevet]

I doubt it. I also like to play the single player missions. It would also be nice to be able to understand what is being said in those little side stories.

I supported PSU on the PS2 for almost a year. Sega dropped the ball on that game and pretty much the earlier versions as well.

They could of at least offered a North American/English version for the PC crowd but they didn't. Would a Steam version have been that hard to deliver?

[TrekkiesUnite118]

Um, there was an English version of PC PSU.

[gamevet]

Um, there was an English version of PC PSU.

Sorry for the confusion. I meant the next chapter, not PSU.

[Melf]

I never said PSO or PSU were sequels to Phantasy Star IV. I am saying they are however Phantasy Star games. You guys somehow misinterpreted that to mean they were sequels to Phantasy Star IV. That's not my fault. Sonic R and Sonic 3D Blast may not be true sequels to Sonic 3 & Knuckles, they are however still Sonic games and have the characteristics of Sonic games to back that claim up.

I think this is where our arguments got tangled. I have no problem with the PSO/PSU games existing. My problem is that they replaced the traditional RPGs instead of complimenting them. I personally don't feel like this is a direction with enough substance to take over entirely for the original series, just as I'd hate regular 2D Sonic games to be replaced by Sonic R sequels.


PSO and PSU may not be direct sequels to Phantasy Star IV, but they still have many of the characteristics required to make them be Phantasy Star games. As for your example of removing names, items, setting, etc. from PSO/PSU, what would remain of Phantasy Star IV if you changed the characters names, the setting, the names of items and spells, the enemies, etc.? You'd be left with a generic turn based RPG that would feel nothing like Phantasy Star.

That's not a very solid argument, since the games you're defending depend specifically on the brand and popularity of the original games, whose characteristics can't be questioned. Those games came first and established everything PSO/PSU are built on. The ones that have to get the nature of the series right are the ones that follow, not the originators.


And yes, the PSO/PSU games do change dramatically online. For example, in PSU there's 2 more episodes of single player story that's only available online that gives more character development and plot. There's also tons of side story quests that again give you more plot development.

I have several problems with this though. First, the actual gameplay itself doesn't change online. The game doesn't control one way offline and another online, so it's essentially the same thing either way. Second, you have to PAY monthly to access all those extra episodes and content that make a full storyline and develop characters. I don't have an Xbox Live subscription, so the only way I can experience everything PSU has to offer is to spend $50 to get my 360 online and then pay a monthly fee on top of that. The original series gave you the entire story in one package for one price. I know the nature of online games is to make you pay as you go, but that's just another example of how different the new PS games are from the old and shouldn't be considered direct sequels or anything similar.


As for no sequels, they did make them, it's called the expansion pack Ambition of the Illuminus which makes the online Episode 2 story available offline, and then there's the portable series which take place after Episode 3 of PSU and in between Episode 1 and 2 of PSU.

You said above that Ambition of the Illuminus wasn't a new game. :p I get your meaning though, but again, it goes back to the extra content vs. complete package differences.


And again, the different releases weren't done to alienate the fanbase. The reason for multiple releases has to do with the limitations that became evident of their platforms. You couldn't update PSO on consoles without releasing a new version on a new disc. Meaning you couldn't even patch bugs people were using to cheat and hack other players. They tried releasing new versions, but that didn't help the situation since you still had tons of people on the older versions. Finally they put it on PC and moved all player data to the servers. This fixed pretty much all the severe hacking and cheating issues but at the cost of making it incompatible with previous versions for obvious reasons. There were still plenty of people who moved to those versions.

Well, no they didn't purposely try to alienate the fanbase, but just look at your explanation! People on different versions of the same games, version incompatibilities, different content on different platforms. How could anyone actually play all the PSO content without playing across several platforms? In contrast, the original games only required one game to own at a time. You didn't have people playing different versions of PSIV on different hardware. If you own PSIV, you own EVERYTHING that goes with it.

This is more an issue of Sega not getting its act together with regards of how to move this franchise. They release a bunch of different versions on console and then move the series to portables. Console owners now have to pay to play all the online content or buy a whole new machine. Another problem is that once the servers go down, there goes your game. A traditional RPG can be replayed forever.

I will say that if Sega were to release a complete version of PSO for play on PSN, I'd buy it and play the hell out of it. It's all the PS love we're going to get, unless they decide to actually make a PSV, which we know will never happen. :(


Before PSOBB came out there were thousands on GC and Xbox PSO. After PSOBB came out there were under 100 people still left on those versions as they had all moved to PSOBB. With PSU, there's well over 200,000 players on the US Xbox servers, and there were about that much on the US PC/PS2 servers as well. The Japanese servers have significantly more than that though. Considering that none of classic Phantasy Star titles ever sold over 1 million copies, I'd say it's safe to say that most of the Classic Phantasy Star fanbase was in fact playing PSO/PSU online.

I don't think everyone who played the original games just upped and moved online, specifically because of the differences I've mentioned. Again though, what options do they have now? Pay a ton to play PSU or buy the portable versions. Sega has indirectly alienated the fanbase by severely limiting access to the games. I don't own a Vita, so no PS for me. My only option is the PC version (which I'm considering, especially since it's free to play). If this is the direction they're going to keep the series going, then I really would like a dedicated console version.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

360 PSU does not require Xbox Live Gold. You can play it online with a Silver account. You just need to pay the $10 Monthly Fee. This is a common misconception people have about the game. Also the Japanese PC version has a free option. There's no level cap or anything, you just can't trade with other players or go to your room.

For all the PSO content if you played Blue Burst, you got everything except Episode 3 and that's only because Episode 3 was a completely different game. The other versions and incompatibilities are just the result of the sad truth of consoles not being able to handle the updates required for an online RPG.




That's not a very solid argument, since the games you're defending depend specifically on the brand and popularity of the original games, whose characteristics can't be questioned. Those games came first and established everything PSO/PSU are built on. The ones that have to get the nature of the series right are the ones that follow, not the originators.

When Phantasy Star IV came out, was it not one of the games that followed the series groundwork laid before it? What if they went with something different and made it an Action RPG instead of a Turn based one? Would it still be Phantasy Star IV? What if they changed the setting, story, characters, enemies, items, spells, etc.? Would it still be Phantasy Star IV?

EDIT:


Sorry for the confusion. I meant the next chapter, not PSU.

Do you mean Ambition of the Illuminus, or PSO2? If you mean Ambition of the Illuminus, it too got a US PC Release. For PSO2 it's too early to tell, it may get a US release or the JP client may have code in there to make it use English depending on your PC settings. We just don't know yet until the game releases. However there are plenty of US players who intend to get the Japanese version of PSO2 if there is no US release.

[TheSonicRetard]

The other versions and incompatibilities are just the result of the sad truth of consoles not being able to handle the updates required for an online RPG.

To clarify, you are speaking directly about the xbox 360 here, not all modern consoles. The problem in particular you are speaking about is that microsoft limits developers to ONE free patch update per game. Meaning that they can only update the game one time without charging their customers. It's a major sticking point with companies like valve, and loads of developers have complained about it. It is, sadly, one of the big reasons why stuff like on-disc DLC for fighting games is prominent - because they can't push free updates later on to ensure everybody has every character to load up when they go online. It really, really sucks, and considering XBL is supposed to be the best online environment for console games, it's a baffling, self-imposed tech limitation.

PSN doesn't have this limitation. It has it's own set of problems - namely that developers have to either host their content themselves or pay every single time they want to put up a free update - but sony doesn't limit the amount of free updates a company can push out. For companies like valve, which already has dedicated DD servers available, the way sony does things is a-ok.

Now, a few companies have cleverly figured out ways to get around this. Neversoft, for example, the makers of Mortal Kombat, they do what they call push-updates. That is, every time you connect to the online server for the game, it changes a bunch of stats for fighters and stores them on your HDD/memory card as a save file. This lets them tweak and rebalance the fighter, without having to spend their sole free update to keep the game competitive, which lets them hold onto it for major updates (should they ever be needed).

But yeah, really the only console which can't handle an MMO, is the Xbox 360. And it's entirely because of stupid restrictions microsoft self-imposes.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

I was referring to the Gamecube, Dreamcast, PS2, and Original Xbox with that comment actually.

[TheSonicRetard]

I was referring to the Gamecube, Dreamcast, PS2, and Original Xbox with that comment actually.

Ah. Well the issue still exists with the Xbox 360, at least.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

I know, that combined with the PS2 is what serverely limited Phantasy Star Universe. Thankfully the JP PC version dropped PS2 support last year and isn't linked with the 360 versions. So they can do what ever they want content wise, which is why JP PSU is now getting areas and items from the PSP games.

[QuickSciFi]

Well, you know how it is. Want to be one of those crazy-leveled-up members? You better start from day 1. :D

[gamevet]

Do you mean Ambition of the Illuminus, or PSO2? If you mean Ambition of the Illuminus, it too got a US PC Release. For PSO2 it's too early to tell, it may get a US release or the JP client may have code in there to make it use English depending on your PC settings. We just don't know yet until the game releases. However there are plenty of US players who intend to get the Japanese version of PSO2 if there is no US release.

No, was talking about the PSO that is the subject of the thread. I'm replying from my phone, so my options are limited.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

Ah, well as I said, it's still a bit to early to tell. The game isn't even out yet in Japan.

[jerry coeurl]

I think this is where our arguments got tangled. I have no problem with the PSO/PSU games existing. My problem is that they replaced the traditional RPGs instead of complimenting them. I personally don't feel like this is a direction with enough substance to take over entirely for the original series, just as I'd hate regular 2D Sonic games to be replaced by Sonic R sequels.

THANK YOU! This is the point I keep trying to make and it's the one that Trekkies keeps ignoring. I don't have a problem with PSO existing, but to me it isn't Phantasy Star. No matter how many references and throwbacks it includes, it plays nothing like the Master System and Genesis games. They don't offer anywhere near the same type of experience, so to me it's a very poor substitute.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

It IS Phantasy Star though. It's just not a single player turn based Phantasy Star game. That's the point I keep trying to make. If they only criteria you use for defining what makes Phantasy Star be Phantasy Star is "Turn Based RPG on my Genesis", then you really need to go back and figure out what truly defines the characteristics of Phantasy Star.

[ThugsRook]

It IS Phantasy Star though. It's just not a single player turn based Phantasy Star game. That's the point I keep trying to make. If they only criteria you use for defining what makes Phantasy Star be Phantasy Star is "Turn Based RPG on my Genesis", then you really need to go back and figure out what truly defines the characteristics of Phantasy Star.
Phantasy Star is a Turn based RPG... not Quake.

[Melf]

360 PSU does not require Xbox Live Gold. You can play it online with a Silver account. You just need to pay the $10 Monthly Fee. This is a common misconception people have about the game. Also the Japanese PC version has a free option. There's no level cap or anything, you just can't trade with other players or go to your room.

That's nice that it doesn't require a Gold subscription, but still, $120 a year? Ouch. The Japanese PC version might be better, but for that I might as well wait for PSO 2 which will be free and in English.


For all the PSO content if you played Blue Burst, you got everything except Episode 3 and that's only because Episode 3 was a completely different game. The other versions and incompatibilities are just the result of the sad truth of consoles not being able to handle the updates required for an online RPG.

Wasn't EP 3 the one that played like a card game? Yet another direction taking the series farther away from its roots.


When Phantasy Star IV came out, was it not one of the games that followed the series groundwork laid before it? What if they went with something different and made it an Action RPG instead of a Turn based one? Would it still be Phantasy Star IV? What if they changed the setting, story, characters, enemies, items, spells, etc.? Would it still be Phantasy Star IV?

If that had happened, I'd be making the same complaints I am now. IF they removed everything you listed, It'd be PSIV only in name, as there would be nothing connecting it to the previous games in the series. However, I would accept it as an action/RPG game, providing it was true in everything else. That's not the case with the online games though, which are only barely related to the original series. As I said earlier, if you remove the name, there's really nothing connecting them to the original 4 games.


However there are plenty of US players who intend to get the Japanese version of PSO2 if there is no US release.

You don't think a situation like that would alienate fans? You don't think that the series having come to this possible scenario is evidence of Sega not really caring what fans think of what the series has become? I hope it at least gets a U.S. release (thought this was confirmed already), as I'd be inclined to get the PC version, providing Sega is smart enough to offer it over Steam.

[jerry coeurl]

It IS Phantasy Star though. It's just not a single player turn based Phantasy Star game. That's the point I keep trying to make.

Here, I'll say it slowly for you, since it seems to keep going over your head: That. Is. Not. The. Kind. Of. Phantasy. Star. That. I. Want. To. Play.

-twUCEfzrDk

There is no storyline or character development in PSO... I certainly don't give a shit about Red Ring Rico and I'm never given a reason to. I want an epic story, memorable characters, a lengthy quest with a greater purpose than just endlessly grinding for better loot. The gameplay is a part of what's missing from PSO, but that's not the only thing!


If they only criteria you use for defining what makes Phantasy Star be Phantasy Star is "Turn Based RPG on my Genesis", then you really need to go back and figure out what truly defines the characteristics of Phantasy Star.

:roll:

Putting words in my mouth, cool. I never said that turn-based combat was the ONLY defining characteristic of Phantasy Star, just that it was ONE of them. I am primarily concerned with how games play. PSO can cram in as many references to the original games as it wants to, but it plays completely differently, and if you can't see that then there's really no point in arguing this any further.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

The problem with fans going to the Japanese version has nothing to do with fans being alienated by the games going from Traditional RPGs to online games or anything intentional on the team at Sega developing it or choice of platform. It has to do with Sega of America's poor handling of Phantasy Star Online and Phantasy Star Universe in the past. Sega of Japan loves their customers who play PSO/PSU. They give them updates, listen to their suggestions, and pretty much cater to what they want. It's Sega of America who historically doesn't care. This is one of those instances where you really had to be playing the games online and be part of the community to understand this logic.

And why would the game being on Steam make you more inclined to get it? It's already been announced that the PC Client will a free download from Sega.

If anything Episode 3 was a step back towards the series roots, by making the game more story driven and returning to a turn based battle system.

And as I said, what connects the online games to the classic games may not be the story or the gameplay, it's the atmosphere, the lore, the music, the art style, and every other aspect that defines what Phantasy Star is beyond a Turn based RPG taking place in the Algol system. After all it's highly possible with the finality of PSIV's ending that a PSV would likely be an entirely new story with a different setting similar to a new Final Fantasy. If that was the case would you consider that to be a new Phantasy Star game? Or would you consider it to not be a real Phantasy Star?




Putting words in my mouth, cool. I never said that turn-based combat was the ONLY defining characteristic of Phantasy Star

Yet it's almost the only one you seem to care about.

As for a more story driven game they have those. They're called Phantasy Star Universe, Phantasy Star Zero, and Phantasy Star Portable. You're entire argument seems to be based only on PSO version 1/2 on the Dreamcast.

The argument of it not being a real Phantasy Star game because it's not the game you wanted is childish as well. Sonic 4 and Sonic 2006 may not be the Sonic games I wanted, but I still acknowledge that they are in fact Sonic games.

[jerry coeurl]

After all it's highly possible with the finality of PSIV's ending that a PSV would likely be an entirely new story with a different setting similar to a new Final Fantasy. If that was the case would you consider that to be a new Phantasy Star game? Or would you consider it to not be a real Phantasy Star?

Dude, have you even played any Final Fantasy games? They have NOTHING to do with each other in terms of story. As a series they are primarily defined by their gameplay, in the same way that Phantasy Star I - IV are. I wouldn't care if they had to move it out of the Algol system or start a new story thread. You can still keep the Monomates and Dimates and Force powers and Wren. You can still make it Phantasy Star without focusing on the story that the first set of games told.


Yet it's almost the only one you seem to care about.

Yeah, and you don't seem to care about it at all. What's your point? Why am I wrong for wanting a Phantasy Star game to play like a Phantasy Star game? If they made Sonic into a third-person, isometric shooter, I don't care how good that game is; it's not Sonic anymore. To me, the soul of a game is its gameplay.



You're entire argument seems to be based only on PSO version 1/2 on the Dreamcast.

Umm, yeah, that's the one I've played. And I played it plenty. And it doesn't feel a lick like PSIV.



The argument of it not being a real Phantasy Star game because it's not the game you wanted is childish as well. Sonic 4 and Sonic 2006 may not be the Sonic games I wanted, but I still acknowledge that they are in fact Sonic games.

Another bad analogy. Sonic 4 and Sonic 2006 are still structured around the same gameplay concepts as the very first Sonic (running fast and platforming). They're shit games, but they're still obviously Sonic. You can't say that about PSO in comparison to Phantasy Star IV.

[Melf]

The problem with fans going to the Japanese version has nothing to do with fans being alienated by the games going from Traditional RPGs to online games or anything intentional on the team at Sega developing it or choice of platform. It has to do with Sega of America's poor handling of Phantasy Star Online and Phantasy Star Universe in the past. Sega of Japan loves their customers who play PSO/PSU. They give them updates, listen to their suggestions, and pretty much cater to what they want. It's Sega of America who historically doesn't care. This is one of those instances where you really had to be playing the games online and be part of the community to understand this logic.

Sega making poor choices is what alienated the fans of the original series. You basically made my point here. And trust me, you only had to be a Sega fan between '94 and 2000 to understand the logic. :p


And why would the game being on Steam make you more inclined to get it? It's already been announced that the PC Client will a free download from Sega.

Ah, didn't know that! I usually get my PC games from Steam due to their ridiculous sales, but if Sega's going to offer it directly I'll have to see.


If anything Episode 3 was a step back towards the series roots, by making the game more story driven and returning to a turn based battle system.

That was a step in the right direction, but then they made it a card game. :(


After all it's highly possible with the finality of PSIV's ending that a PSV would likely be an entirely new story with a different setting similar to a new Final Fantasy. If that was the case would you consider that to be a new Phantasy Star game? Or would you consider it to not be a real Phantasy Star?

Have you played the original 4 games? Each one takes place 1,000 years after the other. They all have new characters with different settings and characters. However, the basic, core elements of the series carry over to each one. Then you get to PSO, and it's like you're playing something else entirely.

The Shining games were able to do this very well until only recently. The Force games, the first-person dungeon crawlers, etc. - all were unified by the same universe, same menu styles, same lore, etc. Only the style of play changed. I accept that because many of them were directly tied to each other (Shining the Holy Ark to SF II, etc.). Then Sega did Shining Force NEO and completely blew all of that out of the water. Same thing happened with PS.

[TheSonicRetard]

Dude, have you even played any Final Fantasy games? They have NOTHING to do with each other in terms of story. As a series they are primarily defined by their gameplay, in the same way that Phantasy Star I - IV are.

Actually, several FF games do tie into each other. Aside from the obvious FFX and FFX-2 and FFXIII and FFXIII-2, there are other connections, like the way FFXII includes the bit with Shinra being established, meaning its set hundreds of years before FFVII. Or the way the original 3 games form a trilogy revolving around the crystals. If you think all the FF games are isolated and have absolutely nothing to do with one another, then you obviously haven't been playing the games.

And what is this central gameplay which you claim connects all FF games? Each game plays radically different from each other. Do you think the ATB system from FFVI onward in any way resembles the turn-based system from previous games? How about FFXI, which is an MMO? FFXII, which is a mix of real time and ATB. Hell, even among character classes there is large variation, to the point where FFVII doesn't even include character classes at all.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

I have played the classic games Melf, my point is that there really isn't a lose end to build off of for PSIV. The ending has a finality to it. Dark force and Profound Darkness have been entirely destroyed. To say they weren't and bring them back for a PSV would make the events of PSIV feel pointless. Even taking place 1000 years later doesn't really get over this issue. They'd have to create a new enemy which would really feel weak compared to Dark Force and Profound Darkness. PSIV pretty much brought that entire story arc to a close.

The only lose end that exists is Phantasy Star III, which one could loosely claim is what PSO's story comes from.

And what I was getting at was Sega of Japan (the ones making the games) aren't making the bad choices. It's Sega of America with their poor customer service that's resulted in people moving to the Japanese versions of the games.

@jerry coeurl

Yes I have played many of the Final Fantasy's. You pretty much just repeated the point I made there. A Phantasy Star V would probably need to be a brand new story taking place in an entirely different place and setting. This is pretty much what PSO and PSU do. Yet you don't consider them Phantasy Star games simply because they are not turn based.

And a lot has changed since PSO Ver 2. You complain about a lack of story and character development, well Phantasy Star Universe, Phantasy Star Zero, and Phantasy Star Portable have plenty of that.

[Kogen]

I am just going to make men with fancy moustaches and women with huge tits, play it for two days to check out the moustache/tit physics, then uninstall it.

[TheSonicRetard]

TrekkiesUnite118, you do know that Sega of America doesn't exist anymore, right? They're now Sega West, which is Sega's DD division, and they've been absolutely making awesome decisions left and right lately.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

They may not be called Sega of America anymore, but it's still the same people. And they make good decisions for some franchises, Phantasy Star however is NOT one of them. Don't believe me? Go take a look at the PSU forums for the 360 version. At one point they completely screwed up an update and instead of saying "Sorry guys, we'll fix it" they went on as though nothing was wrong and when people complained they flat out said "If you don't like it quit!". And then they wonder why 360 PSU is now dying with people fleeing for the JP servers.

[gamevet]

I know, that combined with the PS2 is what serverely limited Phantasy Star Universe. Thankfully the JP PC version dropped PS2 support last year and isn't linked with the 360 versions. So they can do what ever they want content wise, which is why JP PSU is now getting areas and items from the PSP games.

I think most of us gave up on PSU, because it wasn't PSO. They launched the game without a mag by your side, your special weapons are created and sold through shops, and instead of a simple shop area, they turned it into one big mall. PSU was a step back from what made PSO fun, loot whoring and fighting alongside your comrades. I sure didn't care about the stuff the game was doing off of the battlefield. And it sure wasn't worth spending $10 a month, when you could get more from a real MMORPG.


.

If they made Sonic into a third-person, isometric shooter, I don't care how good that game is; it's not Sonic anymore. To me, the soul of a game is its gameplay.


That's the same thing I said about Sonic Adventure, yet so many people defended that crappy game. I didn't buy Sonic Adventure because I had heard about those lame Chaos Emerald hunts, I bought it because of a demo that had Sonic running and Jumping like he did in the Genesis games. I got bamboozled.

[Melf]

They may not be called Sega of America anymore, but it's still the same people. And they make good decisions for some franchises, Phantasy Star however is NOT one of them. Don't believe me? Go take a look at the PSU forums for the 360 version. At one point they completely screwed up an update and instead of saying "Sorry guys, we'll fix it" they went on as though nothing was wrong and when people complained they flat out said "If you don't like it quit!". And then they wonder why 360 PSU is now dying with people fleeing for the JP servers.

I actually went to the PSU forums this morning, out of curiosity. There's an update coming this week, and it includes compensation for a past screw up (probably not the same one though):


New Event: GUARDIANS Chronicle 2nd

+Chronicle HQ 2nd - (Event prologue mission)
+Roar of Flames - (Rank: C - S3)

New Lobby

Easter Lobby! Now is the time of year for gigantic eggs. Only in the GUARDIANS Colony! What is inside of those eggs? What is hatching?

I do wonder.

Available: March 29th – April 19th

Compensation for Server Issues and GBR/Super Holy Light Mistake

We are adding the following as compensation for recent issues with Server Lag, as well as last week's temporary cutting off of the GBR/server awards. I realize that lag is still persisting for some players & this will be addressed with a hardware upgrade. My apologies that I don't have more details about this -- I have asked if it is possible to post more details to make it clear why this is ongoing, and I will add this info when and if I can.

(available until April 19th)

+Three Star Luck to All Races
+Weapon/Armor Synthesis success rate +20%
+Weapon grind success rate + 15%
+x10 Vol-coins (daily casino allowance)
+PA experience boost

Additional Notes

The Universe … is receiving an update. To help promote stability -- and, especially, to encourage co-operative play – we are changing the number of in-game Universes.

Here is the new order! It is pretty much the same as before. Commit it to memory anyway!

01: Aquarius
02: Caelum
03: Delphinus
04: Gemini
05: Libra
06: Orion
07: Phoenix
08: Scorpius
09: Chamaeleon
10: Draco
11: Auriga
12: Centaurus

I think it’s worth noting that we could have essentially done this from launch without any appreciable difference – most everyone gathers in Uni 1 and Uni 2, and this helps compact things a bit. The idea is to make it easier to find more folks wandering around while still giving you some back-water universe destinations for the solo-PSU player to traverse.

It's tempting, but that monthly fee just turns me off.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

You do realize that in the higher difficulties pre made rare items do drop right? In fact some items can only be obtained that way. And the rare weapon boards to craft can only be obtained through drops in missions, none of them can be purchased in NPC shops. If you are talking about player shops, that's really just an easier way to facilitate trading.

And Mags made a return in AotI.

@Melf

To put that into perspective for you, that's a year old event that uses recycled content from events from 3-4 years ago. Around this time last year the Japanese Servers were running Max Attack Infintiy which added new areas to the game from PSP2 Infinity:

lMtFm1lI-cI

The 360 servers will probably never get this content due to Microsofts update policies and the lack of caring from the US team.

[TheSonicRetard]

They may not be called Sega of America anymore, but it's still the same people. And they make good decisions for some franchises, Phantasy Star however is NOT one of them. Don't believe me? Go take a look at the PSU forums for the 360 version. At one point they completely screwed up an update and instead of saying "Sorry guys, we'll fix it" they went on as though nothing was wrong and when people complained they flat out said "If you don't like it quit!". And then they wonder why 360 PSU is now dying with people fleeing for the JP servers.

The point of the post was that Sega West has absolutely no say in which console games go where. They're the DD division, they're not in charge of localization or publishing in the US. What you're complaining about Sega West doing, isn't what Sega West does.

Now, speaking of their awesome DD decisions lately, and tying it in to PSO2, they likely WILL be involved with bringing PSO2 here, because it's being released in a capacity that their parent company charges them with handling (i.e. DD). Sega West, since their formation, has been awesome to every single property they've touched. PSO2 will be their first time touching Phantasy Star. I would heavily bet they handle PSO2 well.

EDIT: Also, they're not really the same people. There was significant turn over when they changed from SoA to Sega West. A lot of the people in charge at Sega West, were hired when Sega West was created.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

Their handling of PSU hasn't changed since they became Sega West, if anything it's gotten worse. I never said Sega of America/Sega West was in charge of which games go to which consoles. The problems they create have to do with content updates and customer support for the games, which is what I was talking about.

EDIT: The low people on the totem pole are still the same people.

[TheSonicRetard]

Their handling of PSU hasn't changed since they became Sega West, if anything it's gotten worse. I never said Sega of America/Sega West was in charge of which games go to which consoles. The problems they create have to do with content updates and customer support for the games, which is what I was talking about.

EDIT: The low people on the totem pole are still the same people.

The handling of PSU hasn't changed, because Sega of Japan still handles the game. Sega West doesn't handle PSU, nor did Sega of America (outside of publishing it in the states).

The low people on the totem pole aren't really the same either, man. I know a lot of low level people who got canned when SoA turned into Sega West. And besides, why would low level employees have anything to do with company policy? If anything, a bunch of higher ups changing would mean more change.

[gamevet]

You do realize that in the higher difficulties pre made rare items do drop right? In fact some items can only be obtained that way. And the rare weapon boards to craft can only be obtained through drops in missions, none of them can be purchased in NPC shops. If you are talking about player shops, that's really just an easier way to facilitate trading.

And Mags made a return in AotI.


Yeah, but I quit caring about anything after the first 6 to 8 months, I was totally bored with it. I wasn't about to spend more money to stay online with that mediocre offering, it sure wasn't worth $10 a month.

The mags should have been there on day 1. The custom mags were just as important to PSO gamers, as the custom gear, yet Sega chose to go another route.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

PSU's mags are different from PSOs. They no longer affect your stats, which honestly that aspect of Mags in PSO severely broke the game. They now are like a weapon you can equip. There's Range Mags which will attack enemies and Tech Mags which allow you to cast more spells and boost your spell power.

PSU today, especially the Japanese version, is an entirely different game than what came out in 2006.


The handling of PSU hasn't changed, because Sega of Japan still handles the game. Sega West doesn't handle PSU, nor did Sega of America (outside of publishing it in the states).

The low people on the totem pole aren't really the same either, man. I know a lot of low level people who got canned when SoA turned into Sega West. And besides, why would low level employees have anything to do with company policy? If anything, a bunch of higher ups changing would mean more change.

You obviously don't play PSU or hang around the forums. We have the same GMs for the game we've always had. They have the same "We don't care" they've always had. These people can't even get off their butts and ban the players who have plenty of documented evidence of cheating and stealing from other players. Sorry but that's what these people are paid to do, this is part of what the $10 a month goes toward.

And the translation of content is still handled by Sega of America/Sega West.

[TheSonicRetard]

You obviously don't play PSU or hang around the forums. We have the same GMs for the game we've always had. They have the same "We don't care" they've always had. These people can't even get off their butts and ban the players who have plenty of documented evidence of cheating and stealing from other players. Sorry but that's what these people are paid to do, this is part of what the $10 a month goes toward.

And the translation of content is still handled by Sega of America/Sega West.

All that stuff you're describing is not handled by Sega West. That is Sega of Japan. I don't think you understand the difference between divisional duties. Just because staff is located in America, doesn't mean they Sega of America. It's SoJ, operating from within America.

And Sega West doesn't handle translations. Sega Europe handles global translation duties for the company.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

I'm pretty sure the GMs for PSU are definitely under Sega West. I know the help website where you report issues with the game as well as get customer support is still listed as Sega of America. And considering the GMs are the same people dealing with the customer service for most of the Digital Distribution efforts I think it's safe to say they fall under Sega West.

The Japanese PSU servers are handled by Sega of Japan. The US PSU servers are not. They have always been handled by Sega of America/Sega West.

[jerry coeurl]

Actually, several FF games do tie into each other. Aside from the obvious FFX and FFX-2 and FFXIII and FFXIII-2, there are other connections, like the way FFXII includes the bit with Shinra being established, meaning its set hundreds of years before FFVII. Or the way the original 3 games form a trilogy revolving around the crystals. If you think all the FF games are isolated and have absolutely nothing to do with one another, then you obviously haven't been playing the games.

Some of that is incorrect (Shinra is established in FFX-2, not FFXII), and some of those connections were added more than a decade later. Either way, most of the connections from the games that I've played (I, II, IV, V, VI, VII, VIII, X, XII) don't amount to much more than fan service. Cloud appears in Final Fantasy Tactics, but the games aren't connected by their narrative at all.


And what is this central gameplay which you claim connects all FF games? Each game plays radically different from each other. Do you think the ATB system from FFVI onward in any way resembles the turn-based system from previous games? How about FFXI, which is an MMO? FFXII, which is a mix of real time and ATB. Hell, even among character classes there is large variation, to the point where FFVII doesn't even include character classes at all.

I don't consider FFXI to be a proper FF game, personally. It's an MMO. Other than that one, they all play pretty similarly. At least as far as the ones I've played go.


A Phantasy Star V would probably need to be a brand new story taking place in an entirely different place and setting. This is pretty much what PSO and PSU do. Yet you don't consider them Phantasy Star games simply because they are not turn based.

Yeah, my problem with PSO isn't the setting, it's the gameplay. If you can't accept this I don't know what to tell you. I would probably be very happy with a Phantasy Star V that took place in PSO's universe if it kept the gameplay more in line with the old games and they included some characters and a story that were worth a damn. I'm not saying it has to be exactly the same, but again; I want a turn-based JRPG from Phantasy Star with a strong story and good characters. Not an action-RPG, MMO-lite. PSU, PSZ, and PSP do not interest me, because they are cut from the same cloth as PSO, not from the earlier games.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

And as I said, there is more to Phantasy Star than a single player turn based RPG. I'm not saying these titles are Phantasy Star V. I'm just saying that they are Phantasy Star titles and have the atmosphere and characteristics to prove it. God forbid Sega try something new to bring the series to 3D.

You're pretty much just basing your entire opinion on what makes a game Phantasy Star on it being a turn based RPG. Which is honestly childish and narrow minded. I'm sorry that you want a turn based single player RPG Phantasy Star and haven't gotten one. But don't sit in here saying that these games are not Phantasy Star games just because they changed the gameplay over the past 15-20 years.

[jerry coeurl]

And as I said, there is more to Phantasy Star than a single player turn based RPG.

Yeah there's more to it than that. It's gotta have an interesting story and good characters as well. And before you mention PSU for the umpteenth time: I have no interest in having to pay for an online subscription to see more of the story. Or to play any further games like PSO.


I'm not saying these titles are Phantasy Star V.

And I'm saying I would like a Phantasy Star V. A proper continuation of the series. I'm not sure why that bothers you so much.


I'm just saying that they are Phantasy Star titles and have the atmosphere and characteristics to prove it.

Well, that's your opinion I guess. You're certainly entitled to it.


You're pretty much just basing your entire opinion on what makes a game Phantasy Star on it being a turn based RPG. Which is honestly childish and narrow minded.

That's not the only thing I'm basing my view on, as I've mentioned story and characters about fifteen times now. I think it's more childish and narrow-minded that you can't accept that I have a different opinion than you do. And it's not like I'm basing my opinion of PSO on nothing. I put in more than 100 hours before I got tired of it, and I had enough fun with it, but it never felt to me like I was playing anything more than a Phantasy Star-spinoff.


I'm sorry that you want a turn based single player RPG Phantasy Star and haven't gotten one.

You're not the one who has to be sorry about that. Sega is!


But don't sit in here saying that these games are not Phantasy Star games just because they changed the gameplay over the past 15-20 years.

Unless I get banned or this thread gets locked, I'm not gonna censor my opinion just 'cause you don't like it. Sorry dude.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

So because they don't say Phantasy Star V and are not Single Player RPGs they are no longer Phantasy Star titles even though they have the atmosphere, music, look and feel, item names, spell names, references, etc. to make them Phantasy Star? That's just like the idiotic viewpoint many fanatical Sonic fans take when they say the only real Sonic games are the 2D titles on the Genesis and ignore everything else.

The other issue here is your opinion is based on outdated information from 10 years ago. You haven't even tried PSU or the Portable titles, which were designed to be a little more like the classic games for those who complained that PSO didn't have enough story and didn't feel like the older games as much. Pretty much the setting and story for PSU and Phantasy Star Portable is a tribute to the old classic Phantasy Stars. If you played them you'd know this.

These games may not be Phantasy Star V, but they are still Phantasy Star games. Just because Sega hasn't made a Phantasy Star V just for you doesn't mean every other Phantasy Star game after IV isn't a Phantasy Star game.

I guess you think World of Warcraft isn't a Warcraft game due to similar logic.

I'm not demanding you censor your opinion because I don't agree with it, I'm saying if you don't like Phantasy Star Online or Phantasy Star Universe don't come into a thread talking about them and whine that you want Phantasy Star V. Make your own topic for that and let those of us who like Phantasy Star Online talk about it and the new game coming out without having to put up with whining and people claiming that what we are playing isn't really Phantasy Star.

[Black_Tiger]

So because they don't say Phantasy Star V and are not Single Player RPGs they are no longer Phantasy Star titles even though they have the atmosphere, music, look and feel, item names, spell names, references, etc. to make them Phantasy Star? That's just like the idiotic viewpoint many fanatical Sonic fans take when they say the only real Sonic games are the 2D titles on the Genesis and ignore everything else.

The other issue here is your opinion is based on outdated information from 10 years ago. You haven't even tried PSU or the Portable titles, which were designed to be a little more like the classic games for those who complained that PSO didn't have enough story and didn't feel like the older games as much. Pretty much the setting and story for PSU and Phantasy Star Portable is a tribute to the old classic Phantasy Stars. If you played them you'd know this.

These games may not be Phantasy Star V, but they are still Phantasy Star games. Just because Sega hasn't made a Phantasy Star V just for you doesn't mean every other Phantasy Star game after IV isn't a Phantasy Star game.

I guess you think World of Warcraft isn't a Warcraft game due to similar logic.

I'm not demanding you censor your opinion because I don't agree with it, I'm saying if you don't like Phantasy Star Online or Phantasy Star Universe don't come into a thread talking about them and whine that you want Phantasy Star V. Make your own topic for that and let those of us who like Phantasy Star Online talk about it and the new game coming out without having to put up with whining and people claiming that what we are playing isn't really Phantasy Star.

PSII, PSIV and PSO are all the same universe with the same level of tech and feel as though they are from the same time period and same culture.

The original Phantasy Star is very different from the rest and is the least "real" Phantasy Star game by the popular standard.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

I'd say the Original Phantasy Star has some bits that make it feel like it's part of the same universe as well. Parma is what really has that feel to it at least.

[jerry coeurl]

So because they don't say Phantasy Star V and are not Single Player RPGs they are no longer Phantasy Star titles even though they have the atmosphere, music, look and feel, item names, spell names, references, etc. to make them Phantasy Star? That's just like the idiotic viewpoint many fanatical Sonic fans take when they say the only real Sonic games are the 2D titles on the Genesis and ignore everything else.

They don't have the look and feel of Phantasy Star to me. The character designs do not remind me of Phantasy Star. The atmosphere and environments do not remind me of Phantasy Star. Music, spell names, item names and references to the old games aren't enough for me.


The other issue here is your opinion is based on outdated information from 10 years ago. You haven't even tried PSU or the Portable titles, which were designed to be a little more like the classic games for those who complained that PSO didn't have enough story and didn't feel like the older games as much. Pretty much the setting and story for PSU and Phantasy Star Portable is a tribute to the old classic Phantasy Stars. If you played them you'd know this.

They still don't offer a cohesive single-player experience. That is by your own admission. You said that you have to play PSU online to see all of the story, and that's not something I have an interest in.


These games may not be Phantasy Star V, but they are still Phantasy Star games. Just because Sega hasn't made a Phantasy Star V just for you doesn't mean every other Phantasy Star game after IV isn't a Phantasy Star game.

What do you mean "just for me?" Plenty of others in this thread have voiced the opinion that they'd like a Phantasy Star V. What, Melf doesn't count?


I guess you think World of Warcraft isn't a Warcraft game due to similar logic.

I don't think WoW is a proper Warcraft game, because it isn't. If someone wanted to play a game like Warcraft III, would you recommend them WoW? Sure, it features all of the races, characters, etc. It takes place in the "Warcraft" universe, but gameplay-wise it's very different. That's all I'm getting at with PSO. It offers a very different type of gameplay experience. It is not interchangeable with the earlier games.


I'm not demanding you censor your opinion because I don't agree with it, I'm saying if you don't like Phantasy Star Online or Phantasy Star Universe don't come into a thread talking about them and whine that you want Phantasy Star V.

First of all, never said I didn't like PSO, just that it didn't feel like Phantasy Star to me. Second of all, didn't you do the exact same thing in the "weed and retro games" thread that you're accusing me of here? Except that I have played PSO.

So Melf can talk about wanting a Phantasy Star V but I can't?


Make your own topic for that and let those of us who like Phantasy Star Online talk about it and the new game coming out without having to put up with whining and people claiming that what we are playing isn't really Phantasy Star.

If you don't like what I have to say, feel free to put me on your ignore list.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

I don't see why if you want Phantasy Star V you can't make your own topic about it instead of hijacking a thread talking about PSO2 to whine about it. This thread isn't about "Do you think PSO2 is a true Phantasy Star and do you think it's Phantasy Star V?" It's about PSO2 being free to play and coming out soon.

As for Melf, Melf didn't hijack and derail the thread, nor did he continue to push the subject after we pretty much came to an agreement. Melf also never said PSO, PSU, and PSO2 were not Phantasy Star Titles. He simply said they weren't Phantasy Star V, which we can all pretty much agree on.

And if someone wanted to play Warcraft III, I'd recommend them Warcraft III. If someone wanted to play a Warcraft Game that's the next or newest one in the series, I'd recommend World of Warcraft.

[jerry coeurl]

As for Melf, Melf didn't hijack and derail the thread, nor did he continue to push the subject after we pretty much came to an agreement. Melf also never said PSO, PSU, and PSO2 were not Phantasy Star Titles. He simply said they weren't Phantasy Star V, which we can all pretty much agree on.

He also said that just because PSO exists, doesn't mean there can't also be a proper Phantasy Star V, which is part of what I've been trying to say. You've been arguing that we don't need a PSV because PSO is a good replacement ("BETTER" in your words), and I was just trying to explain why it didn't cut it for me. Didn't mean to get you so worked up about it.

I tried to drop this way back on the second page, by the way...


I didn't mean to get in a fight over this, I do see the merit in these games, they're just not for me. And I don't feel like they have any significant connections to the original series.

And perhaps I should have left it at that. But you challenged me and told me my opinion was flat-out incorrect, so of course I'm going to respond.

My point about WoW and Warcraft III is that they aren't comparable in a gameplay sense. If someone told you they wanted to play a Mario game, would you recommend them Mario Kart or Super Mario World? Whether you agree or not, Sega HAS alienated fans of the original series by strongly deviating from the gameplay that the series originated with. And I have no idea why you think I'm the only one in the world who wants PSV, that's obviously not the case.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

I never said PSO was a replacement for PSV. I just said it was in fact a Phantasy Star game. I said the gameplay was better though. For a 3D RPG I'd rather have real time action than select an option and watch an elaborate animation on screen.

If someone asked me what the newest Mario game was, I'd say MarioKart if it happened to be the newest one.

[jerry coeurl]

I never said PSO was a replacement for PSV.

So why can't you accept that some of us would prefer to have the latter as well, then?


If someone asked me what the newest Mario game was, I'd say MarioKart if it happened to be the newest one.

Well, I think that's kinda disingenuous. It's being overly pedantic. Do you consider Mario is Missing to be a Mario game? Is Tails' Music Maker a Sonic game? Your argument, to me, seems to be that genre doesn't matter/isn't important to what makes a game. And I can't agree with that, because if I want a Sonic game (2D platformer) and you recommend Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine (a puzzle game), then I'm not gonna be happy with that recommendation. And I felt like that's what Sega did with the whole PSO thing.

And I'll try to leave it at that, as we've basically been repeating ourselves for the last 7 pages.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

I don't have a problem with you wanting Phantasy Star V over PSO, my problem is you saying PSO and PSU are not Phantasy Star games, when they are.

And if you specified "I want a Sonic game that's a 2D Platformer" I wouldn't give you Mean Bean Machine. But if you just said "I want a Sonic game" that opens the door to just about anything with Sonic.

While Mario is Missing is an educational kids game, it's still a Mario Game.

[jerry coeurl]

And if you specified "I want a Sonic game that's a 2D Platformer" I wouldn't give you Mean Bean Machine. But if you just said "I want a Sonic game" that opens the door to just about anything with Sonic.

While Mario is Missing is an educational kids game, it's still a Mario Game.

Agree to disagree, I guess. To me, Mario is Missing is simply using the Mario license to sell something that really has nothing to do with Mario. Same with Mean Bean Machine. There is nothing inherent in the gameplay of these titles that make them Mario or Sonic games. And that's how I feel, to a lesser extent, about PSO.

Anyway, I'm done here. Sorry to derail your thread.

[Black_Tiger]

I'd say the Original Phantasy Star has some bits that make it feel like it's part of the same universe as well. Parma is what really has that feel to it at least.

There's definitely a connection, but PSII, PSIV, PSO and PSU are all pkadtic armor sci fi games that strongly look and feel part of the same universe. The original Phantady Star is more of a fantasy world with sci fi added like Madters of the Universe. The sci fi that is there is a different style and more rough and dirty with different designs.

PSO is similar to PSII. PSU is more like PSIV, bringing back versions of familiar things and a little more PS1 like.

[gamevet]

I don't have a problem with you wanting Phantasy Star V over PSO, my problem is you saying PSO and PSU are not Phantasy Star games, when they are.


I find it's best described as not being your traditional Phantasy Star game.