Thread of Metal

[Drixxel]

We had a good bit of Megadeth discussion going on the old forums, so for those of us with an appreciation for the metal musical stlyings, feel the freedom to discuss it here. As similar as it all might sound to someone who doesn't care much for it, metal is in fact a highly diverse style with countless subgenres and strong listener loyalty to said subgenres. There are also a staggering number of metal bands out there, so if anyone has a band they would like to recommend to the rest of us, please do. I personally am always willing to expand my metal knowledge, and I hope you feel the same.

Anyways.. I suppose a good place to start would be to list off a few favourite bands.

Megadeth: There is so much more to Megadeth than the Metallica rivalry, and if you refuse to give the band a chance because of that, you're a fool. It took me a little while to warm up to the band, mainly the Dave Mustaine singing voice acclimatization period, but once I made it past that, Megadeth simply rocked. More than anything else, I listen to Megadeth for the guitars, and many a brilliant riff can be found among their song library. As far as thrash metal goes, Megadeth (in their prime, and in my opinion) are the best. As a matter of fact, I'm listening to them right now..

I have many other bands that I would like to mention, and will eventually, but I feel the need to depart the internet realm and would rather just post this now instead of coming back to it later. So yeah, if you have something you want to say about metal, please do!

[Melf]

I'm soooo close to completing my Iron Maiden collection (Dickenson only). I'm missing only about 2 albums.

[Vicman]

I haven't seriously listened to any "regular" metal in a very long time, probably since 1995 or so. It just grew pretty old and weak to me once I got interested in the different subgenre's of extreme metal: death/brutal death/melodic death/black/melodic black/symphonic black/viking/doom/grind/etc. as well as some of the avant garde/neo-classical/progressive extreme metal during my time. Funny thing is that once you've gotten used to that kinda metal everything else sounds kinda soft or too mainstream in comparision. I seriously had a hard time distinguishing regular metal from rock, rock from soft rock, and soft rock from pop for a few years there, 1996-2001, when I was really into extreme metal music. Nowadays I just listen to an album from time to time but am not really up on the newest acts or albums from my fav bands.

I'm much more diverse in my musicals tastes these days and have been enjoying more underground/bookbag hip-hop/house/trip-hop/ and late 80s/early 90s jazz influenced hip-hop. I love these two forms of music, hip-hop & metal, because they played a very heavy influence in my acculturization from childhood to teen to adult. I've never liked it when the two were mixed, Nu-metal comes to mind, but in their own forms I enjoy them immensely.

As for bands that are/were my favs here's a list since I have over 100 extreme metal albums:

Morbid Angel
Cannibal Corpse
Deicide
Nile
Borknagar
Emperor
Cradle of Filth
Dimmu Borgir
Gehenna
Arcturus
Hecate Enthroned
Old Man's Child
In Flames
Samael
Sentenced
Therion

[Electroman]

Its almost all I listen to...

Amon Amarth, At the Gates, Battlelore, Beyond the Embrace, Black Sabbath, Disarray, Fear Factory, Grip INC, Guns N' Roses, Haunted, The
Helstar, Iced Earth, Kittie, Megadeth, Metallica, Mushroomhead, Nailbomb
Overkill, Ozzy Osbourne, Pantera, Pitch Shifter, Rob Zombie, Sepultura
Slayer, Slipknot, Static-X, System of a Down, Trivium, Venom, White Zombie

And Non-Metal Bands:
Alice in Chains, Fleetwood Mac, Midnight Syndicate, Ministry, The Doors
Tool, Trans-Siberian Orchestra

[Drixxel]

I'm soooo close to completing my Iron Maiden collection (Dickenson only). I'm missing only about 2 albums.

What's your favourite Maiden album, Melf? I'm personally quite the Powerslave fan, although just anything '80s and Dickenson'll do. I picked up Iron Maiden self-titled a few weeks ago.. even after several listens, I still haven't warmed up to it. Eventually it'll happen.

My personal tastes are more or less rooted in '80s thrash, but I'll give anything a try. I've not yet managed to develop a taste for black metal or grind, but in terms of the extreme subgenres I'm rather fond of melodic death and viking metal. ..although in the viking metal realm, my repertoire is made up entirely of Bathory.

The ol' spread of favourites:

-Annihilator
-Anthrax
-At The Gates
-Bathory
-Black Sabbath
-Cacophony
-Children of Bodom
-Coroner
-Dark Angel
-Death Angel
-Dio
-In Flames
-Iron Maiden
-Judas Priest
-Kyuss
-Megadeth
-Metal Church
-Metallica
-Overkill
-Ozzy Osbourne(Randy Rhoads era)
-Pantera
-Sepultura
-Slayer
-Testament
-Tool
-Voivod
-Yngwie Malmsteen

..and I really dig Pink Floyd, The Beatles, and video game soundtracks.

[Russman]

I love Iron Maiden, and Powerslave is also my favorite, followed by 7th Son... I have Killers, and it does have some kick-ass tracks, but overall I think the pre-Beast stuff just has too much of a classic rock influence to it. Not hard enough.

[Drixxel]

Yeah, that's my main issue with Iron Maiden self-titled. It's much more in the vein of late 70's rock, and Iron Maiden hadn't really established their guitar harmonization magic yet. Plus, Paul Di'Anno is no Bruce Dickenson. To me, pre-Number Of The Beast era Iron Maiden almost feels like a different band.

[NintendoDieScreaming]

I'm a fan of the greatest band ever....


Iron Fuckin' Maiden.

Have all the albums, even the shitty Blaze Bayley ones. This'll sound a bit odd, but I probably listen to Live At Donnington the most. A friend let me borrow his copy of the cd (This was before burning was all the rage) and told me I had to listen to this band. It was the album that got me into Metal, and the album that got me into Maiden. My favorite studio album by them has to be Number Of The Beast. I feel that that album embodies the spirit of Metal better than any other.

Of course, I enjoy Killers and Seventh Son Of A Seventh Son as well. Hell, I enjoy all of them, except Virtual XI. Say what you will, that album sucks.

Other favorite metal bands...

Alice Cooper, Guns N' Roses, Slayer, Judas Priest, Queensryche, Black Sabbath, Megadeth, Anthrax, Iced Earth, and... ...*blush*... ...Twisted Sister.

I also love Progressive Rock, namely Pink Floyd, Alan Parsons Project, Queen, King Crimson, and Yes.

[Melf]

I love Fear of the Dark and Somewhere in Time. Though I'm a huge fan of everything Maiden, these two are my favorite.

I also love:

- Skid Row
- Dio (yes!)
- GnR
- Danzig
- Ozzy

...and just about anything else metal. :ok:

[Electroman]

Iced Earth,

I saw them play in a very rare appearance last spring in Providence, RI at Lupo's. They were very good, but like every other concert one can go to, it is just too damn loud. Then again maybe its the age (31). I kept thinking to myself, I am getting old.

But anyway, no band has impressed me in a long time like Jon Schaffer's Iced Earth.

Another band I have grown to love is Battlelore. Fantasy metal from Finland :!:

[Vicman]

Fantasy Metal? Is that like Bal-Sagoth? Where the lead singer has written almost a book full of back story to the lyrics of the group's songs? Very D&D/Tolkien-esque: http://www.bal-sagoth.co.uk/

Checkout their glossary to all the places, names, characters, and artifacts of their songs. They have a map of their fantasy world, they're gonna have graphic novels coming out illustrated by Martin Hanford, and when they title their songs like this: "The Splendour of a thousand swords gleaming beneath the blazon of the Hyperborean Empire" you know they're freaking nuts! :D

[Electroman]

Fantasy Metal? Is that like Bal-Sagoth? Where the lead singer has written almost a book full of back story to the lyrics of the group's songs? Very D&D/Tolkien-esque: http://www.bal-sagoth.co.uk/

Checkout their glossary to all the places, names, characters, and artifacts of their songs. They have a map of their fantasy world, they're gonna have graphic novels coming out illustrated by Martin Hanford, and when they title their songs like this: "The Splendour of a thousand swords gleaming beneath the blazon of the Hyperborean Empire" you know they're freaking nuts! :D

I don't know Bal-Sagoth but I will check them out !

Battlelore's lyrics are heavily based on Tolkien/Lord of the Rings stuff. They range from very heavy thrash/power metal to light metal. Their vocals range from male dry-lung, to clean male and beautiful female singing. In fact, they will release a new album here in the states in late August. I first heard them on a Century Media compilation album and loved their song on it (Buccaneer's Inn). I then bought both their albums and fell in love with them immediately. Sword's Song is espeically good while their first studio album, Where Shadows Lie is a bit rougher (not a bad thing). I like how they did song sequels too.

URL: www.battlelore.net

[Russman]

Hi guys,

I was looking over Drixxel's list and I picked up a copy of Children of Bodom: Follow The Reaper. I've never listened to these guys before, and I only listened to a few tracks so far. I know it's metal, but first off I don't really like the vocal style in this kind of music where the singer is screaming at the top of his lungs, it makes me feel like I should be out punching people in the face. Thats what I like about Megadeth and Maiden, they have lyrics I can actually hear and understand.

I'm not trying to diss CoB, I'll surely listen to it alot at work, but of those bands listed, which ones have good Singing?

[Drixxel]

Follow the Reaper was also my first CoB purchase, and yes, it took me a good bit of time to adjust to the singing. It's almost better that you can't entirely comprehend the lyrics, though. Much of it is garbage. Musically, the band is top of the line, and like anything else, the singing will eventually grow on you.

Of the bands I listed, the ones that stand out as being blessed with the best throats (and ones you may not be too terribly familiar with) would be: Dio, Metal Church, and Tool. I seem to remember Russman that in the old forum you said you listen to Testament, but if my memory's failing, they're a great band with a great singer and well worth looking up.

I definately think you should check out Dio if you want to hear some incredible singing, as Ronny James Dio is a vocal champion. Stand Up And Shout is a great display of his vocal domination.

Metal Church.. David Wayne has an excellent soft singing voice when he chooses to use it, but for the most part he adopts a much more powerful form of delivery. It's all great, though. Check out the song Badlands if you want to hear a good example of his soft singsongery. (EDIT: Mere moments ago I discovered that it is actually a man by the name of Mike Howe who sings on the song Badlands, and the album that song is from. Ol' David Wayne was replaced at that point. Yep.. still, check out Metal Church!)

..and finally Tool, well, now that I think of it you've probably heard them before as they're quite the popular band. Maynard James Keenan simply has an incredible voice.

Those are the standouts, anyway. I try not to let an immediately unpleasant singing voice turn me away from a band, but sometimes its just so unappealing that I can't help it, so hopefully Children of Bodom works out for you.

[Vicman]

it makes me feel like I should be out punching people in the face.

:lol: That's part of what you should be feeling when you listen to extreme metal music. It's hate and anger projected into music. I hear alot of regular metal guys just don't like or can't get used to that kind of guttural vocals but I instantly loved it when I first heard extreme metal music back in the mid 90s, CoB isn't that extreme though so I guess your virgin ears just aren't used to it. Believe me there's alot of variety in the kind of vocals used in Metal music. Just listen to some Nile to understand brutal death metal's vocals as a comparison. :twisted:

[Drixxel]

I enjoy the death metal vocals to a certain extent, with At The Gates' Thomas Lindberg having possibly my favourite scream, but I find a lot of the gutteral growling to be undistinctive from one band to the next. I mean, sure, from a vocal angle the difference between Morbid Angel and Nile is noticable, but I still find the vocals in both of those bands to be bland. Perhaps I haven't heard enough of those two. Nile does interest me somewhat.. I've heard nothing but praise for them.

A friend of mine is very much into Cannibal Corpse and one day I was watching the making-of DVD that came with his copy of The Wretched Spawn. They showed the band members being recorded seperately from one another. I had never noticed before how awesome the bassist and guitarist are when listening to the band as one complete unit, but when seperated from the rest, watching and listening to the bassist and guitarist gave me a deeper appreciation for the effort that goes in to creating that form of music. I still don't like Cannibal Corpse, but at least I have a better sense of what's involved in making that kind of musical brutality.

Melody, though.. I think melody is incredibly important. I'm all for brutal riffs as long as they eventually break into something else.. a rising level of energy in a song as opposed to being full-tilt insane from start to finish makes for a far more interesting listening experience I find. Then again, I'm listening to Slayer's Reign In Blood right now, so it's not as if this is a musical rule I stand by religiously.

[Electroman]

I enjoy the death metal vocals to a certain extent, with At The Gates' Thomas Lindberg having possibly my favourite scream, but Then again, I'm listening to Slayer's Reign In Blood right now, so it's not as if this is a musical rule I stand by religiously.

What do you think of The Haunted? Isn't that band sort of a spinoff of At The Gates? Do you know of any other bands out there that sound like Slayer (Slayer is of course my favorite metal band). At the Gates gets play when I feel... depressed.

About Reign in Blood, you have every excuse to listen to that anytime you want. Its a white-hot Hellride that bathes in classica. An album that many have been compared to.

[Drixxel]

I've not heard much by The Haunted, but yeah, as I understand it the band was formed by Anders Björler and Jonas Björler, guitarist and bassist from At The Gates. That's a band I probably should know more about considering how awesome I think At The Gates are.. maybe on the next round of CD purchases.

As for bands similar to Slayer.. ever heard of a group named Dark Angel? They're an '80s thrash band with the same kind of Slayer intensity/insanity. Their albums aren't the easiest things to come by, but if you can find it, Darkness Descends from 1986 is an absolute ripper of an album. '86 was a good metal year..

[Drixxel]

A band you may not have heard of and I highly recommend..

Coroner

Coroner were a Swiss thrash metal outfit that formed in the mid 80's and sadly disintegrated in 1993. The band released five studio albums over the course of six years, not including a 1986 demo entitled Death Cult and a self-titled compilation album from 1995. Coroner's thrash stylings rapidly gained complexity and maturity from their debut album onward, reaching their peak with 1991's Mental Vortex, an album home to some of the most abstract and creative riffing anywhere. The raspy vocals of Ron Broder perhaps take some getting used to, and the music may require a bit of time to fully digest, but the band is well worth that time. Coroner never received great fame for their musical efforts, and as such not enough people have heard them, so please check them out.

My recommendations for songs to introduce yourself to the band with are: Internal Conflicts, Serpent Moves (the Serpent Moves solo is my absolute favourite), Semtex Revolution, Divine Step, Tunnel of Pain, and the two instrumentals Nosferatu and Arc-Lite.

[Drixxel]

Of all your favourites bands and all musical eras, what band and during what tour would you most have wanted to see live?

This is a question I'm having a hard time settling on an answer for, and as cliched as these choices may be, it has to be a toss-up between Metallica and Megadeth. To see either of these bands in their absolute prime would have been simply incredible.. Metallica touring for Master of Puppets, and Megadeth during the Rust In Peace tour. Sure, they're still both touring now, but a show in this modern era simply would not have the same energy as one from the peak years.

..and for a metal-free contribution, Pink Floyd performing live the complete The Dark Side Of The Moon in or around 1973. Obvious choice, but good lord that would be mindblowing. The first time I heard that album, I listened to it start to finish on a weak little CD player in my room and concentrated on nothing more than the music I was hearing at the time. Genuinely reshaped my perception of what music could, and should, be.

[StRiDA CoL]

METALICA ALL THE WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

yeah :ok:


hed bang....LITERALLY
:bang:

[Drixxel]

Megadeth with Anthrax are playing in Vancouver this Friday, and if all goes well I'll be there for the concert. Good lord, I must say I'm very bloody excited. What's even better is that the concert is being filmed for a concert DVD (at the very least Anthrax's performance), so ideally they'll nail the sound engineering so the music quality rocks live.

Megadeth is undoubtedly going to kick ass, and Anthrax.. that'll be awesome. Joey Belladonna reunited with the band earlier this year, so I hope that means a set list ripe with songs from Spreading The Disease and Among The Living. Sure, I'll be missing a day from my first week of college, but for the love of all that is holy, Megadeth and Anthrax... live. Yeah. I may lose conrol of my bowels from the euphoria.

[Drixxel]

All systems are go for the Megadethery tomorrow. It shall be a good day, if not the best there has ever been. I will post a record of the chaos if and when I return.

[Drixxel]

Sweet Jesus. That was an absolutely amazing concert. I wouldn't necessarily describe it as lifechanging, but holy shit, definately it sits atop the heap of my best times ever. One of the most amazing aspects of the concert was the sheer magnitude of it.. the bloody thing lasted for over seven hours. Six bands, one of which had finished playing just as my friends and I entered the venue and the other being complete shit.

The musical assemblage went as follows.. Bobaflex (missed 'em, but no matter, I heard after the show that they were terrible), Nevermore (pretty rockin'), Life of Agony (I defecate upon them), Fear Factory (what I expected, which is to say pretty cool..), Anthrax (holy shit), and Megadeth (HOLY SHIT).

The Megadeth set list was righteous..

Blackmail The Universe (Good lord, it was an awesome intro.. complete darkness, the sounds of jets flying overhead, and then a huge pyro blast and the band opened up the musical assault)
Set The World Afire
Skin O' My Teeth
The Scorpion
Wake Up Dead
In My Darkest Hour
Die Dead Enough
She Wolf
A Toute Le Monde
Angry Again
Hook In Mouth
Trust (snuck into the floor at this point)
Tornado Of Souls
Sweating Bullets
Hangar 18
Kick The Chair
Symphony Of Destruction
Peace Sells
Holy Wars

All the classics covered. There were many songs I wished they could have played, but I was ecstatic to hear what was there. Anthrax were incredible, but Megadeth absolutely destroyed everyone that had played before them that night.

[Zebbe]

I started to listen to heavy metal when I was 14 (6 years ago). The first band was Iron Maiden, which I have seen trice since then, and are my favorites. I have all their albums, and the best stuff is like with any other band, the early material (the 80's stuff in this case). From Iron Maiden and heavy metal, I got into several (sub)-genres like power metal, melodic death metal, thrash metal, a little black metal, classic hard rock, glam, etc. Other great bands are:

In Flames
Children of Bodom
At The Gates
HammerFall
Heavy Load
Nocturnal Rites
Helloween
Blind Guardian
Gamma Ray
Yngwie Malmsteen
Europe
Finntroll
Black Sabbath
Immortal
Burzum
Metallica

And about the Metallica/Megadeth, this is my humble opinion: The Mechanix slays The Four Horsemen (which is a theft really). Metallica could have been close to as good as Maiden if they kicked Lars instead of Dave that day. Lars and Kirk really suck, can't understand why James wastes his talent with those two!

[Mendicant]

Of all your favourites bands and all musical eras, what band and during what tour would you most have wanted to see live?
Black Sabbath, in their prime. From the pre-metal era, it would probably be Iron Butterfly.

[Drixxel]

^ Mendicant, what do you consider Sabbath's prime? I mean, specifically which album? As cliched as it is, I honestly do think that Paranoid is their finest work. There was a time I had myself convinced that it was Sabbath Bloody Sabbath, and while there are songs on that album I consider great (the title track, A National Acrobat, and Spiral Architect), I've listened to Paranoid extensively since then, and really.. it deserves the heaps of praise. Hell, I even somewhat dig Rat Salad.

And about the Metallica/Megadeth, this is my humble opinion: The Mechanix slays The Four Horsemen (which is a theft really). Metallica could have been close to as good as Maiden if they kicked Lars instead of Dave that day. Lars and Kirk really suck, can't understand why James wastes his talent with those two!

The Mechanix has its charms, but good god.. the lyrics! I think Metallica's slower take on the song is a better handling, but Megadeth's superior ferocity is perfectly represented in The Mechanix.

As much as being kicked out of Metallica has tormented Dave throughout the years, without that, there'd have been no Megadeth. Kirk and Lars aren't all bad.. Kirk wrote some great solos in his prime, and Lars as a drummer did a very servicable job when their music actually mattered. Sure, Metallica have spent the last decade making a career out of disappointments, but that shouldn't mar what the band achieved back in the day.

[Dave White]

Hello, Short time lurker first time poster here. I feel I have to post as there seem to be quite a few Maiden fans here and I myself am a huge, HUGE Maiden fan. Just ask forum member Joe Redifer. Anyways it's hard to pin down a favorite Iron Maiden album for me but I think I could do it. I really listen to all of the releases regularly. Except for Blaze Bailey. His voice just doesn't cut it for a Iron Maiden lead. It's really sad to as some of the songs on Vitual XI and X factor are brilliant. Thankfully though Bruce sings them live and makes them sound better then Blaze ever could. I would really love to hear these two albums redone with Bruce's voice. So as far as best album goes I would have to agree that Powerslave is on top for studio and Beast over Hammersmith is on top for live. What is your favorite live performance?

[Drixxel]

I'd say my favourite would have to be Rock in Rio. That's an amazing performance with a great set list, and the sound quality is fantastic. I really dig the Hammersmith show as well, especially watching it on The Early Days DVD. Death on the Road's a little unnecessary, but ehh, why nitpick.. Iron Maiden can't seem to make a bad live album.

[Joe Redifer]

Is the "Rock in Rio" the DVD you have, Mr. Dave White?

[Dave White]

Yes Joe.

Rock in Rio is a great DVD. It's amazing seeing 250,000 screaming fools in a crowd. The audio quality and video quality is outstanding. The reason I like Beast over Hammersmith more is because Bruce's voice is very strong and he can easily scream like a mad man.
I'm looking forward to The early days DVD part 2. Anyone know when it will be released?

[Mendicant]

Mendicant, what do you consider Sabbath's prime?
Sorry about the late reply... almost forgot about this. heh....
Anyway, Paranoid.

Now, I'm not particularly fond of the idea of ranking songs, i.e. considering one song to be better than, or worse than another song. After all, I enjoy "Take Five" as much as "Kashmere", so how exactly do I compare them?

But still, if someone suddenly walked up to me, pointed a gun in my head and asked me to name my absolute favorite song, I'd have to say "Paranoid".

[Drixxel]

Mendicant, what are your thoughts on the post-Ozzy Sabbath? The feel of the band had changed so much by the late 70's that when Dio stepped in, Black Sabbath really could have taken a new name. Then again, without the Black Sabbath monicker, Dio-era Sabbath and Martin-era Sabbath would have utterly tanked instead of achieving the modest success they did. I rather dig Heaven And Hell, Headless Cross, and Dehumanizer, but Paranoid they are not.

[Mendicant]

Mendicant, what are your thoughts on the post-Ozzy Sabbath? The feel of the band had changed so much by the late 70's that when Dio stepped in, Black Sabbath really could have taken a new name. Then again, without the Black Sabbath monicker, Dio-era Sabbath and Martin-era Sabbath would have utterly tanked instead of achieving the modest success they did. I rather dig Heaven And Hell, Headless Cross, and Dehumanizer, but Paranoid they are not.
I'm a Sabbath purist. :D The song "Paranoid" is *THE* reason I own a guitar. (Though I STILL don't know how to play it very well. Yet.) Need I say more?

To use a Genesis reference, Ozzy was the S&K to Iommi, Geezer and Bill's Sonic 3. Or is it the other way around?? :P

I like some post Ozzy era songs, like the title tracks of the aforementioned Heaven And Hell, Headless Cross, and such. But Black Sabbath, they are not.

Even then... it was one thing to replace one member when Ozzy was kicked out. By the mid/late 80's Tony Iommi was the only founding member in the so called "Black Sabbath". I forgot where I read it... but I believe, Tony Iommi did not even want to release the last couple of albums under the "Black Sabbath" name. But he was under contract to do so.

IMHO, by the mid/late 80's they had become the "Strider 2" of rock. :D

Just like the post-Bruce-Dickinson Iron Maiden.

[Zebbe]

He wanted to call the band just "Sabbath". IMO, a band can use its name as long as at least one founding member is in still in the band.

[Mendicant]

He wanted to call the band just "Sabbath". IMO, a band can use its name as long as at least one founding member is in still in the band.

Technically, the "Owner" of the band can hire whoever he/she/they want and use the band name. It doesn't necessarily have to be the founding member.

A couple of years ago a news program had a special report on how some companies, that still owned all the rights to some of the popular bands/groups from the 50's & 60's, would hire musicians & promote them as the aforementioned popular band/group from the 50's & 60's.

IMHO, a band should use it's name only as long as the people that contribute the most to the "feel" of the band remain. It might be the founding members, it might not be the founding members.

Case in point, Iron Maiden without Bruce Dickinson just doesn't "feel" like Iron Maiden. I couldn't listen to X-Factor & Virtual XI because of it. From the moment the instruments started playing, a part of my brain kept expecting señor Dickinson on the vocals. The songs, with the new vocals kept feeling "off".

[Zebbe]

So the first two Iron Maiden albums don't feel like Iron Maiden?

[Mendicant]

So the first two Iron Maiden albums don't feel like Iron Maiden?
Aiyaaa!! Almost forgot that the firt two albums featured Paul Di'Anno. :O
I stand corrected. The *LAST* two non-Dickinson albums don't quite "feel" like Maiden albums.

[Melf]

So the first two Iron Maiden albums don't feel like Iron Maiden?

I don't know....to me they don't. After listening to his vocals for so long, it's kind of hard to hear someone else.

That being said, I can name only two cases where I didn't mind the singer replacement: AC/DC and Van Halen (Hagar >Roth). Of course, AC/DC didn't exactly "replace" their frontman, but the principle's the same.

[Joe Redifer]

Brian Johnson actually does a decent job of performing Bon Scott's songs in concert. I wonder if the rest of AC/DC decided to lighten up on the drug use after Scott kicked the bucket. I mean they are still alive so changes must have been made. I also agree about Hagar > Roth though I have never been a giant Van Halen fan. I've only purchased two of their albums, 1984 and F.U.C.K.

[Zebbe]

I don't think the singer determines if the band "feels" like the band they are. Songs like "Man on the Edge" and "Futureal" from the Blaze-era "feel" a lot more like the typical heavy metal Iron Maiden than those boring rock tunes from "Dance of Death", for example "Rainmaker" and "Face in the Sand". So the songwriting is most important when it comes to the band, not the singer.

[Dave White]

Has anyone seen the G3 DVD that's out? All I can say is it kicks much much ass!! Yngwie Malmsteen is the best followed by Joe Satriani followed by Steve Vai. If you love guitar work like me you will love.......LOVE this DVD.

[Joe Redifer]

I have a hard time believing Malmsteen sounds better than Satriani. Malmsteen is basically all over the place with no real melodies (well, it's very rare in his work) and thus not much structure. I like how Satriani actually creates listenable music. That bastard should really start composing videogame music. Of course I sold my Mac G3 many years ago so I won't be able to see/hear what you are talking about, I guess.

[Drixxel]

Malmsteen... no real melodies?

Horsehockey! Rising Force is one of the most melodic guitar albums of all time!

[Joe Redifer]

I don't remember which one that is. Is that the one with a super high level of ambient noise (re: tape hiss) even on the CD? To me it sounds like his hand is all over the guitar neck up and down and all around never stopping. Listening fatigue sets in quickly. I like good guitar solos, but I don't like it when the whole piece is basically a guitar solo. I just don't go for that kind of shiz. I need structure! One of his albums that I had did have melodies, but they were interpersed with A LOT of fret spasms as I like to call them. It's like he needs to play 162 random notes between each chord. I remember the CD had 3 songs I liked. It may have been Rising Force. Mostly I remember that tape hiss!

[Drixxel]

Rising Force was ol' Yngwie's debut. Black Star, Far Beyond The Sun, Icarus' Dream Suit Op: 4... these three songs off of the album are in my opinion his finest work. Incredibly strong sense of melody. If you prefer more traditional song structures, Yngwie made considerable efforts to commercialize his music in the late '80s and onward, so I'm sure there's a lot of his material that you would find easier to digest, complete with overwrought '80s crooning and songs about "love."

As for outrageous tape hiss, I only own Rising Force on vinyl, so I really can't say if the noise I hear while listening to the album is the same noise that mandhandles your ears when listening to whatever Malmsteen album it is you're talking about.

Still, Malmsteen does get a little boring. Satch is pretty cool, but I think for pure unbridled creativity, you can't beat Steve Vai.

[Joe Redifer]

OK those three songs sound very familiar and are the ones I like. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Malmsteen is a complete loser or sucks in any way, he just needs to be listened to in small doses. Satch is cool and I can listen to him in larger doses but need to give him a rest as well. As for Steve Vai I haven't heard much from him. When it comes to specialized guitarists like those three I prefer the songs without lyrics, so the only Steve Vai song I am familiar with is... forget the name. Starts out with some whore saying "You know I'm very very shy" for absolutely no reason whatsoever. I think the song is called "I would love to..." It is quite good.

[Mendicant]

I think for pure unbridled creativity, you can't beat Steve Vai.
Hello?? Iommi?!?!
:D

[Dave White]

It doesn't matter. All 3 guitarists kick ass. I think you don't like Yngwie as much because he seems rooted in Classical music. Bach and such. I don't feel you like Classical music at all Joe. Am I right? Joe Satriani likes to make his guitar "cry" or "scream" a lot whichever you choose. He has more repititous melodies compared to Yngwie.
G3 concerts are awesome because the majority of the songs are instrumentals. They only sing when they jam at the end and do covers.

[Joe Redifer]

No, YOU'RE the one who doesn't like classical music, remember? What I don't like about Eengvay is what I've already mentioned about him. Steve Vai sings on every single song on the album that I heard except for one tune, and he still feels the need to interject his voice in parts, as if we want to hear it or something.

[Drixxel]

Vai is definitely at his best with his mouth shut..
And frankly, he's at his coolest when he's not picking. If you've seen some of the ridiculous things he does with his guitars you'll know what I'm talking about.

[Dave White]

Oh I like Classical music. I just don't care for video game music made into classical music.
Finding a studio CD from one of these guitarists without singing is almost impossible. Joe Satriani's Surfing with the Alien doesn't have any singing and thats probably why it's the only one I own. In this G3 vid. Vai's first song is with the 3 neck guitar and he does some whacky weird stuff with it. I don't care for it much and usually skip to the next song.

[Drixxel]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uAo-0oBrZk&search=Black%20Sabbath%20hall%20of%20fame

Iommi strutting his funky stuff at Sabbath's recent entry into the hall o' fame.

There are a variety of other videos from the ceremonial madness on youtube as well, including Metallica's Black Sabbath tribute.

[Russman]

Just bought this new Megadeth DVD 2-discer online(Arsenal of Megadeth):
http://www.fanfire.com/images/product/large/MDT38077.jpg

[Drixxel]

I've been meaning to pick that up. I hear it's awesome, although apparantly some of the "filthy words" in the music videos have been censored for this package. Other than that, I'm shocked by the sheer volume of stuff contained within these DVDs.

When it gets delivered, Russman, do tell as to what you think of it.

[ary incorparated]

I like metallica more then megadeath more catchy songs,buit stil megadeath isnt bad at all,only i couldnt get used to the voice of dave mustaine its so high and not really pretty in my upininion,Jamez sings better.i know kirk hammet is far way not the best Lead guitarist ,hes only the one famous in this time,Metallica is more in the media,tv etc.

[Drixxel]

Mustaine's voice really grows on you the more you listen to Megadeth. It's definitely not the prettiest of singing voices, but it's most certainly unique. His vocals have gotten deeper and more controlled as time goes on - his singing on The System Has Failed is in my opinion his strongest ever, but that being said, you can't beat the crazed vocal performance of So Far, So Good ... So What!.

"I'm not a fish, I'm a man.... HOOK... IN... MOUTH!!!"

Awesome.

[ary incorparated]

Ill try it out,i heard some very nice solos in some megadeath songs,High speed dirt etc.BTW the mecanix is better then four horseman.

[videolamer]

It is?

This is a long thread so I'll just weigh in with my tastes. I like a thrash metal like Metallica, Megadeth, Testament, and stuff but primarily listen to melodic death metal. At the Gates, Dark Tranquillity, and the 15 other bands from Gothenberg.

[Drixxel]

Sweden's quite the goldmine for modern metal greats. I've been listening to a fair bit of Darkane lately, and started getting into Meshuggah not long ago.

Ill try it out,i heard some very nice solos in some megadeath songs,High speed dirt etc.BTW the mecanix is better then four horseman.

If you want some Megadeth songs with stellar soloing, I recommend the following:

Hangar 18
Last Rites/Loved To Deth
My Last Words
Set The World Afire
The Killing Road
Tornado of Souls
Victory
Wake Up Dead

That offers a pretty good mix, from raw and chaotic to refined and melodic.

[ary incorparated]

Than Drix ill try them out.

[Russman]

I've been meaning to pick that up. I hear it's awesome, although apparantly some of the "filthy words" in the music videos have been censored for this package. Other than that, I'm shocked by the sheer volume of stuff contained within these DVDs.

When it gets delivered, Russman, do tell as to what you think of it.

Just got a backorder notice from fanfire on this :( ....3-4 more weeks for delivery....must be selling pretty good.

[Drixxel]

3-4 weeks? Arrggg.. did you get this for a good price, Russman? As great a deal as online retail can be, these occasional waiting periods must blow like none other.

[Russman]

3-4 weeks? Arrggg.. did you get this for a good price, Russman? As great a deal as online retail can be, these occasional waiting periods must blow like none other.

I don't know about a good deal, it was $40 for the DVD and matching T-shirt combo...., I had to have the shirt with that picture :)....I also ordered a Megadeth hat and they sent that to me right away. I got the stuff from the official Megadeth site/store....cuz I couldn't find the DVD anywhere locally. At least I know they'll send the stuff eventually since I got my hat. ....hmph.

[Drixxel]

That really is some stellar cover art for the Arsenal of Megadeth. It will surely make for a righteous shirt.

[ary incorparated]

Drix,do you like the music from Megadriver?

[Drixxel]

^ I've only heard two songs by them, but I liked what I heard. Awful guitar sound, though. Megadriver seem to have the right idea - they just need better execution. I definitely give the thumbs up to metal covers of Genesis tunes.


I picked up the Arsenal of Megadeth the other night. I haven't watched too much of it yet, but it's certainly a neat package. The censoring is done extremely poorly, though.. sound completely cuts out for the duration of words such as "bitch," but for some reason "cunt" was left unadultered in the video for Anarchy In The U.K.. Unusual decision there. There's apparantly a fair bit of hidden stuff on the two discs.. that's honestly a little annoying. A DVD shouldn't be a bloody treasure hunt, especially if it's nothing more than navigating menus!

[ary incorparated]

cool,yup megadeath is nice stuff.Megadriver,hmm i like it a bit,he plays like 13 years,and makes songs sounding like that,okay not the best ive ever heard,some songs are good,some are terrible(like F zero x,Mute city cover)street fighter ken theme sounds nice+road rash sounds okay.My mate hated his music,my vriend plays in a metal band too,he says damn taht dude plays F...cking awful and doesnt always plays dedicated too the original like TF4,and golden axe deaht adder and shinobi is to high.i like the idea that he covers genesis games,its an idea others also can follow.sure hes just doing it for the hobby,but i prefer Metallica,Iron maiden,Megadeath,deep puple,led zeppelin etc ways above him.

[ary incorparated]

ahh I got a bit problem with my guitar but already fixed it,like when i was recording music it sounded a bit faded and weak.I placed a connection in the middle that runs trough a Oppamp,i record everything with my MD(minidisk),but maybe known that a md has much impendance so a oppamp is the best solution for recording trough line in.A opp amp makes the signal that gos in weaker and makes the signal that go,s out harder,if you want to have a really good sounded guitar withiut defroming then every string has to give a sinus voltage.But im actually not good in guitar at all i think but still learning if some people that really can play have tips our discussions about it please bring em" up.sorry that my english is a chore on this part,hope you guys understand,if not sorry.

[lemmy_kilmister]

A band you may not have heard of and I highly recommend..

Coroner


Dude, Coroner's fucking ill! R.I.P, No More Color and Punishment for Decadence are all European thrash masterpieces. I love all the early Noise Record bands like Rage, Celtic Frost, Kreator, ect..


Anyways, I'm more about the NWOBHM, obscure late '60's and '70's metal and hard rock, Crossover, and doom/stoner metal, myself. Some of my favorites are:

Witchfinder General
Blue Cheer
Raven
Trouble
Saint Vitus
Black Sabbath (Ozzy, Dio, Ian Gillan, Tony martin.. it's all good)
Cathedral
Pentagram
Candlemass
Motorhead (hence my screen name)
Deep Purple
Earthride
Melvins
Sodom
Broken Bones
Venom
Hidden Hand
The Obsessed
Judas Priest

I could go on all day.

[Drixxel]

Awesome, lemmy_kilmister.. awesome. I know most of those bands, but some of those are new to me. I salute your familiarity with Coroner! Mental Vortex is my personal favourite of theirs, but those first 3 are definite thrash classics, Euro or otherwise.

Ever heard of a band called Reverend Bizarre? They're Finnish doom, and they strike me as being right up your alley.

[lemmy_kilmister]

Ever heard of a band called Reverend Bizarre? They're Finnish doom, and they strike me as being right up your alley.

Na, never heard of 'em.. are they new? I guess I'll give them a listen if I ever find anything by them. They don't have death metal type vocals though, do they? I'm not really into that sort of stuff.

[Drixxel]

Reverend Bizarre formed in the mid '90s, but it wasn't until 2002 that they put out their debut. They play an extremely sludgy brand of doom, and the vocals are certainly not death metal.

Their music is hard to come by on the ol' net, so I've taken the liberty of PM'ing you a link to a song of theirs that I just now uploaded.

[ary incorparated]

Anyway,,whos into some dragon force,the solos are quit fast but the voice work Godd damn thats fucking ugly and gothicish.Drixxel a very good song and recomended by the ary incorparated(heheheh cough)Symphony of destruction by megadeath,I like panetra,s music ,and jimi hendrix,maybe bit old but damn that dude infented the hot damn good solos,and offcourse metallica.offcourse black sabbath,hehe Bark at the moon.Mooi man vette troep

[Russman]

Yes, Symphony of Destruction is a powerful song. The whole Countdown to Extinction album has a more powerful theme to it, and was the first album to drift from the pure thrash style Megadeth had done up to then. It appealed to alot more people and gained them alot more fans, I'll bet there are alot of people that consider this a pop album because it's not like the older stuff, but fucks to them, this album may not be as thrash, but technically it's probably their true masterpiece. Not my favorite album by Deth, that would be Rust In Peace, but CTE was absofrickinlutely fantastic, and can get your blood pumping just as well as anything....'High Speed Dirt' 'Psychotron'....aw hell everything on that album is still great.

[Drixxel]

I'm honestly not that fond of CTE compared to the best of the Megadeth catalog. As far as the slower and more deliberate Megadeth is concerned, Youthanasia takes it. Countdown's a good album with some classic and powerful 'Deth songs (Symphony Of Destruction obviously, Architecture of Aggression, Ashes In Your Mouth, etc.), but there are things about it that keep it from being a favourite. Parts of the album feel undeniably cheesy to me, more so than any other Megadeth release, and that really kills it.

Dragonforce.. they're entertaining. They do flashy, over-the-top power metal well.

[ary incorparated]

Yup their entertaining,Symphony of destruction,Mustaine uses its voice very well and bit stronger and heavier not that high irritating voice he used in mechanix etc.and offcourse Motorhead with the Ace of spades.

[ary incorparated]

and dont forget to choke her(Joker)....ace of spades.

[lemmy_kilmister]

Oh Jesus, Dragon Force.. I just saw them do their first American show (or so I've heard) at the New England Metal & Hardcore Festival last week, and I've got to be perfectly honest with you guys.. they were absolutely ridiculous. I mean, it's bad enough when your band is named Dragon Force, but they just felt and looked like a boy band with guitars and double bass drums. Now don't get me wrong, they certainly knew what they were doing and they all definitely had talent, but it just felt so staged and cutesy for me.. especially when the lead singer had gorgeous flowing curly long hair.

Anywho, I also managed to see Gamma Ray perform for their first time (?) concert in America too and they were incredible. Even did a version of Helloween's "I Want Out" .

[Russman]

I picked up Manowar: Warriors of the World. Starts off and ends great, but there's a huge chunk in the middle of this album where they are doing ballad after ballad after ballad....it's really boring for metal album.

[ary incorparated]

I think that dragon force is somethimes a bit to much pushed,BTW nice brute picture you got their Lemmy.Its getting time that i post one o" mine i think it not a chore but its getting time to throw my prettynes into the battle(cough thus not).

[Drixxel]

I picked up Manowar: Warriors of the World. Starts off and ends great, but there's a huge chunk in the middle of this album where they are doing ballad after ballad after ballad....it's really boring for metal album.

I have only one Manowar album.. The Triumph Of Steel. It was cheap, and curiosity prevailed. It really is not my style... bland riffing, cheeseball lyrics about "true metal," and poorly done epics.

http://forums.megadeth.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127363&stc=1&d=1146062911

Yeah. Yeah, they're stylish lads...

[Russman]

I have only one Manowar album.. The Triumph Of Steel. It was cheap, and curiosity prevailed. It really is not my style... bland riffing, cheeseball lyrics about "true metal," and poorly done epics.

http://forums.megadeth.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127363&stc=1&d=1146062911

Yeah. Yeah, they're stylish lads...

LOL, I have Triumph Of Steel as well. It's the first Manowar album I picked up a few years ago. I do like the Achilles in 8 parts that takes the first half of the album up, I thought this was very clever and it must have taken alot of work to write something like this.

I hear you though, they really like to tell us how true to metal they are. I'd still rather listen to this than your typical mall metal though :)

[Drixxel]

LOL, I have Triumph Of Steel as well. It's the first Manowar album I picked up a few years ago. I do like the Achilles in 8 parts that takes the first half of the album up, I thought this was very clever and it must have taken alot of work to write something like this.

I hear you though, they really like to tell us how true to metal they are. I'd still rather listen to this than your typical mall metal though :)

I think I'll listen to the album again today, as it has been awhile. The only song that really stood out to me was Metal Whip, and even that was a little bland. Still, I've lately been in a sort of "epic" mood, so maybe all eight zany parts of Achilles will fair better this time around.

Two albums have been eating up most of my listening time recently... Meshuggah - Catch 33, and Tool - 10,000 Days.

I picked up Catch 33 on a whim about a month ago during a music sale.. I absolutely hated it the first listen through, but after several days of punishing myself with the album near constantly, I enjoy it so much that I play it daily. It's almost like music made by machines for other machines to appreciate, as some of the patterns in the riffs are seemingly so chaotic and irrational that you'd think they were somehow based off of Pi. Really bizarre, but it's grown on me like a fungus.

10,000 Days.. I was extremely eager to hear this, and had resisted the urge to download the widely-available album leak, so the first listen through was fairly exciting. I honestly wasn't that impressed with the album, though, and the negative reviews I'd read previously were making a lot of sense. Still, I gave the album a couple of days to grow on me, and surely enough, it has. There are a few duds in the form of artsy filler tracks, but it's a great Tool album. Plus, the packaging simply incredible.. lenses built into the cover that allow you to see the album art in 3D.. more than a little creative, that.

At any rate, I guess the point of all this is that music requiring a bit of work on your part is often the most rewarding and enjoyable music of all.

[lemmy_kilmister]

Dude, if you want good Manowar then you should really get Kings Of Metal (if you haven't already). It's worth buying for Hail and Kill alone.



BTW nice brute picture you got their Lemmy.Its getting time that i post one o" mine i think it not a chore but its getting time to throw my prettynes into the battle(cough thus not).


Haha, like that? I gotta pay props to the mighty Saint Vitus wherever I go.

[ary incorparated]

hehehe cool.maybe if my guitar work ill try to hold my guityar with my teeth hehehe,no thats bull.but ill try to make a fun shot for the ace.The mighty saint anger round my neck(caugh crappy cd)no as i true tallica fan i have to like it,its okay ill give it that and my tree year old kid can play the whole album.

[Drixxel]

Haha, like that? I gotta pay props to the mighty Saint Vitus wherever I go.

Of the Saint Vitus discography, what are your top picks, lemmy? They're a band I've not been exposed to much of, but I've read good things about Mournful Cries and V in particular.

[lemmy_kilmister]

Of the Saint Vitus discography, what are your top picks, lemmy? They're a band I've not been exposed to much of, but I've read good things about Mournful Cries and V in particular.

They're all pretty good, but I'd say start off with the original album, Die Healing, the recent live album, or Born Too Late for a true taste of Vitus. Or you could check out some samples at Myspace (http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=35680841) or listen to a random sample somewhere online. Be warned though, some songs, especially the song Born Too Late are really slow.

[ary incorparated]

BTW lemmy kilmister is a member of motorhead,isnt he?

[lemmy_kilmister]

BTW lemmy kilmister is a member of motorhead,isnt he?

Yes, yes he is. Matter of fact, he's more like Motorhead itself.

[ary incorparated]

ahaha Killing time ace of spades,Overkill.Motorhead is the good stuff.

[ary incorparated]

BTW megadriver is kind o good actually since there is no single tab of game music,really hard listening for correct timing and chords,i know it since im working on it,but hes actually kind o good.soem songs are a bit minor like mute city and shinobi but i cant blame it.

[Russman]

Just picked up Manowar: Hail To England. Now this is heavy metal, what a great album. Kill With Power, Bridge of Death. This is some hard hitting old-school metal right here. A+

[Nazza]

Of all your favourites bands and all musical eras, what band and during what tour would you most have wanted to see live?

This is a question I'm having a hard time settling on an answer for, and as cliched as these choices may be, it has to be a toss-up between Metallica and Megadeth. To see either of these bands in their absolute prime would have been simply incredible..

..and for a metal-free contribution, Pink Floyd performing live the complete The Dark Side Of The Moon in or around 1973. Obvious choice, but good lord that would be mindblowing.

Funny when I read that those bands were the first that popped into my head. Also Pink Floyd had a song that I consider heavy metal in "The Nile Song".

I got into heavy metal through Metallica, then a friend of mine recommended me some Iron Maiden, Megadeth and Saxon. I also like Hammerfall and Megadriver, I don't mind Kamelot either.

[Genesisdoes]

Kamelot's amazing. I'm going to see them in October, I've already bought the tickets!

[lemmy_kilmister]

I rebought Sleep's Holy Mountain album after hearing a clip off of it on the movie Gummo awhile back. I have no idea why I ever sold this album in the first place, it's awesome.

[ary incorparated]

Im getting into more bands Megadeth the album out 2001 dont know the name sorry forgot it but that one was great,Whos into Slayer i like the south of heaven album and some more songs like angel of death i like it cause its fast and heavy,tough i found the hell awwaits album too simplistic and bitsy crap.

[HetmanTancred]

I hate Slayer as well as Megadeth. Megashit sold out after their first 4 albums and their first 4 albums were nothing special. Mid-paced thrash metal, bad vocals, too much gay endless soloing.

Slayer's first album was amazing. Very good old school speed/thrash metal. But afterwards, they changed their style to sound more like every other American thrash band at the time and sold out in the early 90's anyway.

American thrash metal for the most part, sucks balls. I got into thrash by listening to the German, Swiss and Brazilian pioneers. German, Brazilian, and Swiss thrash is almost always twice as fast and twice as heavy. American thrash is just weak. It's mid-paced at most, lacking anything remotely interesting and just bores you to death...

[ary incorparated]

could be,i hated the first slayer album altough i have to admit that the vocals are bit bad in slayer,the voice isnt that great but still just fun and not bad i think,the dutch metal hmmm still isnt there much sore we have kaine(shame) and i even forgot the name of the other crap ass wiped band,hmm Ohh yeah direct aah please the shame for the small dutch country,underground fests or metall bars sound better and there are some talented guys there,german rock Ramstien hmm endless riffing and not much special either no solos and that makes it average the solos are done by the skinny geek boy on the synth,please no synth rock,no fuckinf piano or something in a rock band and certainly nog fanatic it only make s it beefy (linkin park).Brazilian soul fly hmm okay band bit to simple but okay Toll hell yeah american rock bands are good i have too admit but many copy,System of a down hmmm crap first grade too simpel guitar amature work and hearable.Metallica their american and undenieable good if you dont like it im wondering if youre a metal fan at all they at least do theyre best and are good maybe you dont like it but there famous enough cause their just good.Brazilian bands megadriver hmm resenable mega death isnt that badd,name youe bands the Hetman what bands do you like or prefer.I have to agree the endless soloing is crap in slayer many solos sound rashed and not that nice more like its fast but if it sounds we dont care if its fast and not that badd and on the tape inplant it in the music clip,their soloing is kindo simple i can do that almost it is fast but not that difficult,Just toggeling and making solo noise nothing more.

[HetmanTancred]

Here's a couple of bands I love with all my heart:

Celtic Frost - From Switzerland. My favorite band of all time along with Hellhammer. One of the pioneers of black metal, thrash metal, and death metal. The first 3 albums are so unique and original that it's amazing. First 2 albums, Morbid Tales and To Mega Therion, are old school black/thrash with a very dark and grim atmosphere. The 3rd album, Into The Pandemonium, is a very sudden change in style. It's more of weird gothic/doom metal but still just as evil as their previous works only this time around more misanthropic. Future releases were pretty good but not as good as these 3. The guys just released a new album but it sucks. Shitty fucking mainstream bullshit.

Hellhammer - This was a small little band that existed for a short while releasing only 2 demos and 1 EP. The music is horrendous. It really is. These guys didn't even know how to play their instruments and you can hear that on their recordings. What makes it so special is that their lack of talent made them great. There was nothing in 1983 that was as heavy, as dark, as evil as Hellhammer. These guys broke up in '84 and in the same year formed Celtic Frost.

Countess - A one man Dutch black metal band. The music is very, very simple but thats what makes it shine. All the songs are extremely catchy with lots of old school heavy metal influence. It reeks of Manowar and Saint Vitus along with old school black metal gems such as Bathory and Hellhammer. Basically, it's a weird mix of heavy metal and black metal.

Summoning - A 2 man band from Austria making some of the most beautiful symphonic black metal. When you think of black metal you usually think of raw and evil music. Summoning's songs are depressing of course but they're bombastic and are showered with beautiful keyboards and melodies. A truly unique band.

Abigor - A very talented and creative black metal band from Austria. The sound depends on what album you'd be talking about. Nachthymnen (From the Twilight Kingdom), my favorite album by them, has backing female vocals, keyboards, and a very full rich sound. Orkblut - The Retaliation, on the other hand, is a concept album based around the life and death of a pagan warrior. This is album is much rawer, faster, but retains classic elements such as timpani.

Necronomicon - A German thrash band that still plays thrash metal! Amazing really since almost every single thrash metal band has sold out. These guys are still thrashing. The first 2 albums are weak, uninspired and lack anything memorable. The 2 albums afterwards were thrash/speed masterpieces. Their newest album came out in 2004. It's a very solid thrash metal album. Nothing fantastic but it's surprising to hear a thrash band still thrashing.

Destruction - A German band that first started playing black/thrash metal. After the first 2 albums, the just stuck to thrash and have been kicking ass. Their last 2 albums suck though.

Gah... basically here's a small list of black metal and thrash metal (my 2 favorite genres)

Black metal - Summoning, Abigor, Countess, Amestigon, Satanic Warmaster, Drudkh, Vinterriket, Slavland, Nifelheim, Desaster (black/thrash), Aura Noir (black thrash)

Thrash metal - Celtic Frost, Destruction, Necronomicon, Sarcofago (old school black metal as well), Torr, Sepultura (every before the Roots album is good), Dream Death, Kublai Khan, Carrion, Kreator (everything after Coma of Souls suck), Sodom (first 3 albums are amazing everything afterwards is mediocre)

Here's a link to my last.fm page:

http://www.last.fm/user/UnholyTancred/

This'll tell you the stuff I listen to. I really don't feel like writing a 10 page essay on what bands I like haha so just check out the stuff I listen to...

EDIT- BTW, Yes I hate Metallica with the exception of about 4 songs. That doesn't mean I don't like metal. I live, breathe, and die by metal. I am metal.

[ary incorparated]

their really good,i like what their doing but they self are thinking also their the best their not,Thats a whole lot of stuff aweome such knowledge about metal probably youre made fot that,Dunno metallica i think their really good like their style,but if you dont like their style yes then you end up with other songs and themes.But ill try some out ive not tryd all the metal bands yet im only known with the familiar ones Dutch metall Total infection those guys are going to be great someday.hmm what more one mand band Ary incorparated still need more man to complete and work on a band.Hetman do you play guitar your self?.

[ary incorparated]

I have to say some okay music at youre my space file the quicker stuff i also love,but hell not as genius as metallica amrica does not suck far way not sega 16 is great and maybe america is bitsy problematic country but thats all cause of bush.Metallica eats those voiceless bands and you know those bands are too boring for having no voice,if there where no vocals in that kindo music it would be hells better.

[ary incorparated]

slayer suckes hmm bratysslava is even simpeler.

[Drixxel]

I hate Slayer as well as Megadeth. Megashit sold out after their first 4 albums and their first 4 albums were nothing special. Mid-paced thrash metal, bad vocals, too much gay endless soloing.

Slayer's first album was amazing. Very good old school speed/thrash metal. But afterwards, they changed their style to sound more like every other American thrash band at the time and sold out in the early 90's anyway.

American thrash metal for the most part, sucks balls. I got into thrash by listening to the German, Swiss and Brazilian pioneers. German, Brazilian, and Swiss thrash is almost always twice as fast and twice as heavy. American thrash is just weak. It's mid-paced at most, lacking anything remotely interesting and just bores you to death...

Ehh, I personally love the first four Megadeth albums. Dave and co. obviously made the effort to be more commercial from Countdown To Extinction onward, but I don't think any band deserves to be condemned solely on that fact. If the music is still good, who cares if it sells a couple million copies? That being said, Megadeth's best years and albums came out of their period of musical uncompromise, but all of their stuff is at the least listenable (barring a good portion of Risk). It's entirely possible for a band to seriously alter their style without "selling out" (take something like Burzum for instance), but then there are the bands that choose a different, easier path. Open your mind and you might even like it, unless you're fearfull it'll reflect badly upon your metal trueness. Man cannot exist on relentlessly up-tempo thrash forever.

[ary incorparated]

and that it is american metal is great so is megadeath thats true overtoughted music not another fast paced metal band with no good voice(which is very important)its not a band with that vocals sound like a pig or a hogg like in most bands and have simple upbeat guitar.Hell slayer is kindo good only you have to be into it if you dont like it you dont,Metallica rules hetman for youre info Master of pupets why are people still doing like to many metallica covers and justice for all album ride the lightening as the best album,and load and reload as just relaxter rock albums,please meashure yourself some diffrentsy instead of the bratyslava on of the Hogg,pig vocalled band,and that satanish voice stuff isnt gay,hell yeah that more the essential of a entire gay bar.Please dont judge countrys cause you dont know it entirely and nor the people,you only know the media.Its about the people who live in america and not about its media and bush,here on sega 16 there are some realy nice americans for instance and im pretty damned shure they arent gay,and BTW a country cant be gay since it isnt made of leather and gay sects only,i can understand if people hate that.

[HetmanTancred]

slayer suckes hmm bratysslava is even simpeler.

Yea my music is extremely simple. I do that on purpose and I've gotten great praise from lots of black metal fans. I'm almost done with my first demo and I'll be sending that out to some record companies...

and that it is american metal is great so is megadeath thats true overtoughted music not another fast paced metal band with no good voice(which is very important)its not a band with that vocals sound like a pig or a hogg like in most bands and have simple upbeat guitar.Hell slayer is kindo good only you have to be into it if you dont like it you dont,Metallica rules hetman for youre info Master of pupets why are people still doing like to many metallica covers and justice for all album ride the lightening as the best album,and load and reload as just relaxter rock albums,please meashure yourself some diffrentsy instead of the bratyslava on of the Hogg,pig vocalled band,and that satanish voice stuff isnt gay,hell yeah that more the essential of a entire gay bar.Please dont judge countrys cause you dont know it entirely and nor the people,you only know the media.Its about the people who live in america and not about its media and bush,here on sega 16 there are some realy nice americans for instance and im pretty damned shure they arent gay,and BTW a country cant be gay since it isnt made of leather and gay sects only,i can understand if people hate that.

What're you even talking about. If you're refering to my blog on myspace it's about how retarded common sense is in this country. Dude I'm 17 (I'll be 18 next month) and I've been living here since I was 4 years old. I am into politics and economics. The stuff I write on myspace is meant to be taken with a grain of salt. Although I am serious about the stuff I say and write, it also has a comical side to it which I thought was pretty obvious. Plus that "America is gay" blog has nothing really to do with politics just the stupidity of the country saying I'm not a citizen when I am. I don't feel like repeating what I wrote there. If you don't understand it, it's your loss and not my problem.

The only reason people are doing Metallica covers is beacuse Metallica is a popular band... duh. That's fucking common sense. Popularity...

And if you're trying to insult my music, don't even bother. If you actually read what I wrote on my myspace, you'd understand that the Satanic stuff is a joke. Did you even read the lyrics for Spear of Satanas and I Am Evil? It's obviously a joke. Those 2 songs aren't meant to be taken seriously and are a tribute to the old school black/thrash metal bands that heavily influenced me. Other than those 2 songs, my music's main theme revolves around Slavic paganism and Slavic unity. I'm an atheist myself. I don't believe in God or Satan. However, I find great interest in Slavic paganism.

EDIT - Why are you even complaining that my music is simple. Just a few posts ago I read that you listen to Motorhead. Motorhead have been basically releasing the same album since they first one. Seriously, almost all their songs sound the same with barely any variation. No technical skills whatsoever. Just good drunken speed metal...

[Nazza]

I've heard a few Hellhammer songs on Pandora before, they were pretty good.

[ary incorparated]

ohh thats youre music youre band hmm then its not bad,but ehy then i cannot even compare it to slayer,oke slayer is playing pretty much a longer time and a have to admit the speed is upbeat.But yes motorhead is fun thats taste ehy,but im not into youre stuff ass you arent in mine,so makes it even,i didnt mean to insult youre band but the voice is unhearable,but the tempo is oke.

[ary incorparated]

I say yes simpler,as a fact dont you understand that or is it youre ego that you think youre better then slayer as you say yourself youre just a beginning band,and for a beginning band ist certainly not bad then i take it back on judging compared to the biggerbands,but dont start on the megadeath sucks and stuff they have influence on young metal bands to ya know same as music has influence on youre band theyre just biggen except that.Oke ill take everything back about youre band cause i didnt know it was yours but im still not into the non voice stuff.

[ary incorparated]

for a begining band hmm i heard much of that stuff here in holland my friends theyre trying the same and some of my friends youre age are riffing hard and yes play every metallica song out their head,and doing solos of 20 minutes and theme work very good entire songs surpassing jimi hendrix with a ease and metallica is weak meat for them but metallica had big influence on them even i know a kid of 13 years that can play every metallica,megadeath song and im surpassing him but i dont have a band sore.,so im used to it,but i dont want to dicurage you if you having fun in doing it keep doing it,ill bet you turn the whole audionse nuts and making them Pit hard,ill bet i would rock when youre playing.I was looking at what music you liked(i didnt even know or looked that it was youre band sorry for the insults,i just tought it was a band and i wasnt into it and yess compared too many stuff i heard ) so i compared it to yess metallica and the rest and then you self no that youre not on that hight maybe someday but not now.Mettallica is good but they have a huge ego LOL,theyre fan likkers.Fan likers in dutch is flikkers(gays)www.myspace.com/totalinfection or www.total-infection.com beginning band but theyre great i think.

[ary incorparated]

No ups for bratyslava altough i dont like it,its great youre doing it,if you where i famous band i didnt care,but as i tought its just not my style im not going to lie,i wish you guys good luck,i take the insults back case i tought you where a famous band.

[HolyBloody16Bitter]

what's that crap men! Common the voice is bad! If you find yourself so good, work on the voice man!

[HetmanTancred]

No ups for bratyslava altough i dont like it,its great youre doing it,if you where i famous band i didnt care,but as i tought its just not my style im not going to lie,i wish you guys good luck,i take the insults back case i tought you where a famous band.

You can insult my music man I don't really care. I insult my music all the time. And by the way its not you guys. I'm the only member...

what's that crap men! Common the voice is bad! If you find yourself so good, work on the voice man!

So good eh?

TAKEN DIRECTLY FROM MY MYSPACE:

"Sounds Like: A toilet flushing... haha seriously though in my own opinion I sound like generic black metal. Nothing special. Well that's my opinion..."

Yea I'm so good.

The voice isn't bad. It's black metal. You obviously don't listen to black metal. And if you're referring to the high pitched screams in I Am Evil those are a joke...

EDIT -

I say yes simpler,as a fact dont you understand that or is it youre ego that you think youre better then slayer as you say yourself youre just a beginning band,and for a beginning band ist certainly not bad then i take it back on judging compared to the biggerbands,but dont start on the megadeath sucks and stuff they have influence on young metal bands to ya know same as music has influence on youre band theyre just biggen except that.Oke ill take everything back about youre band cause i didnt know it was yours but im still not into the non voice stuff.

What the fuck are you talking about. I never said I was better than Slayer!

[ary incorparated]

okay sorry for that i dont want to be the evel one here,slayer isnt bad i refer,they have bit voice angel of death hell yeah and more.But seems you dont take youre band that seriously either,youre call if you still want to keep it up do that probably it is black metal im not into that,here maybe you like this the [url]www.myspace/morbisexire.com,my self prefer total infection above it.work on the voice and youlle be a heck of a metall band LOL,no keep it that way youre fans like it.or check www.total-infection.com Disco and search at friends.Still nice youre bringing varation or else the metallica sectes would be to big,nice theres other and better stuff then them(still like em) but hearing chimaira and dragon slayer,slayer and many more does good,Six feet thats terror its asking for trouble when you turn it on at the decent local gameshop.im still practising on schreds cause i cant complete my band,but hell i dont care really that much i can make my own musi ones also LOl only hopes it workes.I hate the Mettal noobs that are actually Black sabbath fans and like iron man(blech) and more of the shit from them liek bark at the moon,and tring to be cool by beeing a metallica boy dressed up in half ways black and make up and wearing metallica ohh look at me im black wear make up and im one of the many metallica wearing dweebs,how sected.Mettalica is a biot slow as i listened to it.Stil the band deserves my respect but im not going to wear anything metallica,cause there are other and better bands.

[HolyBloody16Bitter]

no offence with your voice man! I know how black metal sounds, and you're no ozzy:p But it's cool that you do this stuff!

[fruitsofherwomb]

Dude some weird vocals is Varg on the Self Title LP Burzum.

But anyway, some pretty kick ass Melo death is Wintersun, They make most bands look like complete children.

Metellica sucks, i don't see whats so great about them.

[ary incorparated]

Hmm i think theyre slow but yes diffrence in taste there is Stone sour is good,hatbreed is okay,slayer hell yeah sorry for beeing in to that,megadeth okay band,the world needs a hero cd totally sucked balls what was the song When seposed to mean that he wanted to suck James its balls but never could. and thats why hes sead and that hes been kicked out of metallica serves him right the drunken sailer hes still asnt lost the accent.Chimaira is pretty good,and Dragon slayer is fun to listen to many bands from the roadrunner pact are pretty damn talented and good.Pantera hell yeah also a cool one,and killswitch engage.thats about what ive listened so far plus some beginning metal bands.System of a down they can suck the biggest balls in the world what is that for a childish and crappy guitar play i never heard a good solso from them and never really good guitar play just plain fast and beginners stuf they suck more then a pair balls they suck like 100 pairs.

[Oi_Oi_Spanky]

Blimey, that's some struggle to read your shit I can tell you.

I'm now in my mid thirties, quite a good time if you like the more extreme metal that came around in the late 80s - early 90s. I live just outside central London, which means I used to live 45 minuites train journey from the Marquee Club in Charing Cross Road, The Astoria, Tuffnel Park Dome. I used to head into London once, maybe twice a week to see bands. Just a few I've seen are, Masacre, Morbid Angel, Bolt Thrower, Canser, Pestilence, Malevolent Creation, Chronos (ex Venom), Napalm Death, Demolition Hammer, Obituary, Unleashed, My Dying Bride, Cannibal Corpse & more I've forgotten due to the amount of knocks on the head you get at these gigs. And that's only the marquee Club. Been to a couple of Ozfest to see large amounts of bands, Pantera, the original line up of Black Sabbath (quality), Soulfly, more & more. The Reading & Leeds festivals, the larger venues for Slayer, Metallica, Motorhead, Sepultura, more I've forgotten. I'll die a happy man.

Nowadays I have to admit that there's a lot less tallent around. Most bands don't even do guitar solos on any of their tracks. One thing Metallica was guilty of on St. Anger & was shunned by the loyal. Even after the previous two (I'll call it three because Bob Rock killed Metallica when he got involved in the Black album. He used to produce bands like Faster Pussycat for fuck sakes.) lame outings, people had hope & it was dashed. If you like good, intense metal, check out some of the bands I mentioned if you haven't anyway.

[ary incorparated]

sepultura heard em theyre good soul fly is okay,machine head is the stuff trivium hell yeah,what more.what about sixfeet under they got some good guitar work but the vocals the sound of pigs eating.i know allot of metal bands since shortly it changed my live and made me arongant lol,im drinking somethimes too much beer which i normally dont do,but the rest is clean im not a alcoholist or something 6 liters i not that much.but i know allot of metal bands via my mates,im even gotten into guitar playing and that goes very wel after only playing a half year,i can play metallicas one with ease also master of pupets and some own stuf,metallica is simple to tab lol,but still great hey i can play frantic(not cool)to easy buit stil a fun song.St anger here in rthe dutch also called Shit anger of santaclaus anger(dunno why that)or st anger for Shit sanger lol.no its an okay album bit on the simplistic side but a few songs are simply enjoyable st anger Frantic and the unnamed feeling are fun,the rest is okay but not that good.im Made from metall.hope metallicas next album is going to be better,yes the albums weakend after the black album the lyrics where bit lamer black album is okay but not as good as justice and ride the lightning,master.Like aint my Bitch kis youre fucking ass goodby as a melodie,hell no that sounds very fault but stil its better then the world need a hero from megadeth.Load and reload are calmer but okay and more use of its good voice ehy,hope the same on the next album,its obvious the voice of hetfield was rawwer and sharper back in the days younger and then he was still a little metal brat lol,and justice album his voice sounds misvormed by beer,stil not worse i like the album as one of the best.

[HetmanTancred]

Chimaira and Hatebreed are mainstream trash. I hate Metallica and Megadeth equally but I do like a few of their songs. I love Metallica's The Four Horseman. It's an awesome song. Master of Puppets on the other hand is crap. It starts out great for the first 3 minutes with very good thrash riffing. Then the gay interlude kicks in and ruins the whole song. For 5 minutes you hear gay acoustic crap and when the thrash finally comes back, it's too late. For Whom The Bell Tolls, ...And Justice For All, and To Live Is To Die are a few other Metallica songs I do enjoy. I loved Metallica as a kid but when I started listening to more metal and found all these other thrash metal bands, when I compared them to Metallica I found Metallica to be very boring and dull now I can only enjoy a few tunes.

I never liked Megadeth and the bad thing about drinking with my friends is that they love Megadeth. They used to keep blasting this crap every now and then but it wasn't that frequent. The few songs I do enjoy are Kill The King, The Disintegrators, Symphony of Destruction, and a few others. I love Ashes In Your Mouth. That song is amazing but all of Megadeth's other stuff is just wanking off on the guitar. I hate Hanger 18 with all my heart. It's like a 5 minute song with the first 2 minutes being bad thrash then the last 3 minutes follows this routine of repeating the same riff 4 times followed by gay soloing for 30 seconds. Play the riff again then solo some more. After 3 minutes, the song ends. It's nerve grating.

I just really hate that people think bands like Metallica, Megadeth, Slayer, Anthrax and Testament are the greatest thrash bands of all time. People think they created the genre and think they're so amazing. In my opinion, they're mediocre at best. Bands in Germany and Switzerland were thrashing their heads off at the same time these guys were around but the Germans and the Swiss played faster and heavier. Brazil also had it's share of brutal thrash bands at the same time but in Brazil it was more old school black/death/thrash.

Obituary, Cannibal Corpse, and Pestilence are great bands. I only enjoyed Morbid Angel's first album. It was fantastic but the other albums are just dull.

I used to be a huge Pantera fan. They were the band that got me into metal when I was in the 6th grade. All my buddies used to call me Pantera Pete until a year ago. I own all the official albums (not the 80's ones) as well as some EP's. I downloaded shitloads of bootleg concerts both video and audio and both from the 90's and the 80's. Man, the 2 Pantera shows I have from 89 are fantastic. The sound quality is not that great obviously but the playing is fantastic. The majority of the tracks were from Power Metal and Cowboys From Hell (which didn't come out until a year later). Hearing Cemetery Gates and The Sleep live in '89 with Phil sounding completely different, is fucking great.

Everything before Sepultura's Roots album is fantastic. Chaos A.D. is when they sold out but that album is still tolerable. Soulfly, on the other hand, is mainstream trash. It's like Korn with random tribal drums. I hate Six Feet Under. I do enjoy Chris Barnes era of Cannibal Corpse but his own band is just terrible. They've also sold out as well. Hearing Six Feet Under's cover of Purple Haze is hilarious...

[ary incorparated]

six feet under indeed is hilarious,Megdeath i hate the world needs a hero album with al my hart,I get bored of for whom the bell tolls standart riffing,master of pupets i cant help it like the acaustic varation a bit but its bit simple the songs bores after a huge time,Disposible heros is great,batery is fun To live is to die Four horseman,Ride the lightning,Hit the light that on is good riffing stuff,frayed ends of anity one acaustic or not bit of teasing acuastic is nothin wrong with,Blackened amazing lyrics,nothing else matters for the calm moments i hate it but thats why its actually one of the best metallica songs,Fight fire with fire is slow but okay,the cliff burton bass solo Anesthesia is good further more its repetetive and okay,acoustic isnt gay for everyone the acoustic interludes ar beeing used often to suprise you with a metal beat after it,I like electric guitar riffs most and some nice shreds like dimbagg pantera,soul fly is good but i dont like i think the guitar sound is somethimes bit irritating,Another good one Tool i love their stuff i listen to lots of metal bands lately only i cant remember the songs,im really into metall and in playing guitar schreds and riffs as fast and good as possible,and possible it is when having ADHD.

[Oi_Oi_Spanky]

If you like Six Feet Under's covers try some of a band called Ten Masked Men. They do covers, in the same sort of style as Six Feet Under, but the likes of Britney Spears, Salt & Pepper, Micheal Jackson, so on & so forth.

Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Masked_Men)

As for not liking Megadeth, all the tracks mentioned were all on Rust In Peace & albums after. Killing Is My Business, Peace Sells & So Far, So Good, So What... are top albums. And I disagree about Slayer, they were one of the founders of thrash & I'll say that Seasons In The Abyss is the most complete album I've ever heard & gladly rate it as my No1 all time fave. But, I dont listen to it as much as Brutal Truth's Exteme Conditions Demand Extreme Responses which is a fucking bomb.

[Drixxel]

If we're getting into the nitty gritty of thrash's origins, things get a bit blurry. You have this slew of bands who were actively gigging and releasing demos during the burgeoning years of the '80s.. they as a whole shaped thrash, not just one or two. Overkill formed in 1980, which makes them the earliest band to my knowledge to have been perpetrating the thrash stylings. Even then, they didn't release their first LP until '85, so as far as the discography of thrash is concerned, they're late-commers. The same could be said for Sodom, another band formed in 1980 who didn't make their mark until '84 with their first EP.

Metallica, Slayer and Anthrax had a huge influence on and role in early thrash. To say otherwise is complete bullshit. Sure, there was a bubbling Euro thrash scene in the very early '80s, but Euro thrash didn't really take off until '83 after the demos from the Bay Area made their international rotation, not to mention releases like Kill 'Em All and Show No Mercy.

Destruction, Kreator, and Sodom I consider to be the godfathers of European thrash, and while their importance shouldn't be understated, to deny the early American thrash metal bands any responsibility in forging thrash as a metal style is ignorance.

Hetman, you've mentioned twice now how Swiss and Brazilian bands were mad thrashers... beyond Sepultura, Brazil was largely a self-contained music scene with very little in the ways of quality. Sure, some Brazilian demos were in limited circulation, but Sepultura is pretty well the only thrash band to emerge from Brazil and make their mark. As for Switzerland, you have Hellhammer, possibly Celtic Frost (if you consider them thrash), and Coroner. Thrash bands were obviously more abundant in Germany than other European countries, but even Germany didn't match the army of thrash bands pouring out of the U.S.A.

But again, who gives a crap about this "origins of thrash" bullshit. Motorhead pretty well provided the initial spark for all of these early thrashers anyway, and they don't even consider themselves a metal band.

[Russman]

Meh, Megadeth is my favorite band. I guess I don't pass the Hetman litmus test for true rockers.

p.s. I've bought 4 Iced Earth albums in the past month, I really like these guys. I got a good mix of their stuff, old and new. I bought Night of the Stormrider, Something Wicked, Burnt Offerings and Glorious Burden. I always wondered what happened to Ripper Owens after his stint with Judas Priest. Now I know. That Gettysburg trilogy is great.

[ary incorparated]

and so it is but european Metall is gowing to grow,im sure the metallica of europe comes one time,America has the best rock collition but the british people allready had a influence before that.I cant say that Americas the best for metal but im not at the hight of the brazilian stuff either,i dont like the screeming of soul fly and spultura is oke,but i think everybody has a diffrent pair of ears for metal even the same song you can anticipate in more ways,I have to admit that metallica slayer are exsamples of just beeing great metal i named the good songs of metallica and there are even more that are just good composure,cant help it the songs involove lots of thinkwork to live is to dy orion.Ive just gotten into slayer i just love it,America @ their best i love the country for its metall influense roudrunners records,Stone sour and metallica and slayer at first ever heard the Anesthesia solos awesome basswork,also rob truililio is a good win for the band he vcan play kindo nice,but jason was good for some stuff also.even for the fun i dont really like to say america acts gay,way not the best metal @ the moment for me just have to admit that,but i cant say europe doesnt come close they do and noit trying to be the next mettallica all the time i dont want to cover all the stuff and neither do some serious bands,some here in dutch only live from shitty covers of RHCP dandy california and some crapy american pop bands,crapp.but metallica just has a big invluence and not for nothing you have to earn it which shitsem of down never does.Acoustic isnt gay whats that for strange expression its just a part of guitar.Metall is better i agree but acoustic is difficulter cuase of the chord and stuff and somethimes gives a song a nice kickback or just a good interlude to built up a nice solo instead of just fast.Megadeth hmm its kay stuff i think Mustaines voice is crappy and ways to high and bit gly.i just keep it that everybody has their own tate and has to be respected not that one says metallica sucks while the other obviously thinks the other way metall is same like the games stuff here everybody has their own set of minds and so taste in metal,even same song are being heard diffrent so,actually its al subjectif but listning to more makes the mind wider for metall and excepting things,Pantera rules the hell.

[Drixxel]

Meh, Megadeth is my favorite band. I guess I don't pass the Hetman litmus test for true rockers.

p.s. I've bought 4 Iced Earth albums in the past month, I really like these guys. I got a good mix of their stuff, old and new. I bought Night of the Stormrider, Something Wicked, Burnt Offerings and Glorious Burden. I always wondered what happened to Ripper Owens after his stint with Judas Priest. Now I know. That Gettysburg trilogy is great.

I've yet to be ensnared by Iced Earth. My brother digs their stuff, and I've heard some songs from Horror Show that I really like, but they're just one of those bands that I consistently find myself passing over. I have read a lot of good things about Night of the Stormrider, though..

Russman, what's your top recommendation from those four Iced Earth albums you picked up?

[Nazza]

I hate Metallica and Megadeth equally but I do like a few of their songs. I love Metallica's The Four Horseman. It's an awesome song.


If you like Four Horsemen you might like Mechanix by Megadeth, it's the same song but faster and with worse lyrics.

[Drixxel]

If you like Four Horsemen you might like Mechanix by Megadeth, it's the same song but faster and with worse lyrics.

...and Mechanix has an extended intro while lacking the solo interlude found in The Four Horsemen. Mind you, if you've already heard Mechanix, this news is clearly old hat.

[ary incorparated]

the mechanix is overall pretty worse,i still prefer four horseman guitar work is bit faster in mechanix but horseman does good either,and the volcals of hetfield are ways better then those of dave,mechanix sound bit overrashed and bit to playy,bit like a nagging child.

[HetmanTancred]

six feet under indeed is hilarious,Megdeath i hate the world needs a hero album with al my hart,I get bored of for whom the bell tolls standart riffing,master of pupets i cant help it like the acaustic varation a bit but its bit simple the songs bores after a huge time,Disposible heros is great,batery is fun To live is to die Four horseman,Ride the lightning,Hit the light that on is good riffing stuff,frayed ends of anity one acaustic or not bit of teasing acuastic is nothin wrong with,Blackened amazing lyrics,nothing else matters for the calm moments i hate it but thats why its actually one of the best metallica songs,Fight fire with fire is slow but okay,the cliff burton bass solo Anesthesia is good further more its repetetive and okay,acoustic isnt gay for everyone the acoustic interludes ar beeing used often to suprise you with a metal beat after it,I like electric guitar riffs most and some nice shreds like dimbagg pantera,soul fly is good but i dont like i think the guitar sound is somethimes bit irritating,Another good one Tool i love their stuff i listen to lots of metal bands lately only i cant remember the songs,im really into metall and in playing guitar schreds and riffs as fast and good as possible,and possible it is when having ADHD.

I have no problem with acoustic riffing. Hell, I listen to Slavic folk music that only has acoustic guitars. In the metal field, I love Iced Earth and Iced Earth have a moderate amount of acoustic riffs. The only difference is Iced Earth do them well and Metallica fail, in my opinion.


p.s. I've bought 4 Iced Earth albums in the past month, I really like these guys. I got a good mix of their stuff, old and new. I bought Night of the Stormrider, Something Wicked, Burnt Offerings and Glorious Burden. I always wondered what happened to Ripper Owens after his stint with Judas Priest. Now I know. That Gettysburg trilogy is great.

I love all Iced Earth albums except Glorious Burden. Ripper Owens just doesn't fit in with Iced Earth and finally Jon Schaffer has run out of riffs.

If you like Four Horsemen you might like Mechanix by Megadeth, it's the same song but faster and with worse lyrics.

I know. I listen to it when I'm drunk with my friends sometimes. Only when we feel that Four Horsemen is too slow...

Destruction, Kreator, and Sodom I consider to be the godfathers of European thrash, and while their importance shouldn't be understated, to deny the early American thrash metal bands any responsibility in forging thrash as a metal style is ignorance.

I'm not denying their influence I'm just stunned to see them getting all the credit. Thrash formed in America, Europe, and South America at the same time. All the bands had their own influences and created their own version of thrash. The American bands did diddly squat for some of the European and South American ones. Overkill at first was a punk band. After a year or 2, they got a bit heavier and started playing what is now called thrash. Destruction, Sodom, and Kreator were all old school black metal at first mimicking Venom and Hellhammer and adding speed and palm mutes. Hell, Bathory was black/thrashing up in Sweden and were called to be Venom rip-offs yet Quorthon stated he never heard of Venom until around '87 and his influences were Oi bands and Motorhead. Other bands took their influence from NWOBHM and were playing a more fancy thrash.

Hetman, you've mentioned twice now how Swiss and Brazilian bands were mad thrashers...

And the Germans.

beyond Sepultura, Brazil was largely a self-contained music scene with very little in the ways of quality. Sure, some Brazilian demos were in limited circulation, but Sepultura is pretty well the only thrash band to emerge from Brazil and make their mark. As for Switzerland, you have Hellhammer, possibly Celtic Frost (if you consider them thrash), and Coroner. Thrash bands were obviously more abundant in Germany than other European countries, but even Germany didn't match the army of thrash bands pouring out of the U.S.A.

There were no record labels in Brazil. It was nearly impossible to record in a studio there but they had great fucking bands. Sepultura gets too much credit. Don't get me wrong, I love all their albums up to Chaos AD but the guys weren't that much different from all the other Brazilian bands. Brazil had heavier bands. Most of them were old school black/thrash and others old school death/thrash. Sarcofago, Sextrash, Mutilator, Executer, Explicit Hate, Exterminator, Holocausto, etc. Dorsal Atlantica, Korzus (still around) and Vulcano (still around as well) for your information released demos at the same time that Metallica was releasing them. American thrash bands are credited with creating the genre and influencing the globe. They did help shape the genre and were some of the first thrash bands but most people say the influenced everybody which is very fucking ignorant.

I've talked to Necromaniac, from Apokalyptic Raids, and he told me that Brazil had a huge underground scene in the 80's even though it was hard as hell to record and release albums. The scene was large but it was extremely hard for any of the bands to play live anywhere other than South America. Sepultura got really lucky. He also told me most of the Brazilian bands were influenced by Venom and Hellhammer. Necromaniac himself cares little for American thrash.

In Switzerland... Hellhammer was not thrash. It was Venom + heavier riffing + heavier sound + complete slop. Switzerland had Celtic Frost, Coroner, Carrion, Messiah (black/thrash at first then became death metal), Poltergeist, Apocalypse, etc. There were few thrashers from Switzerland but they all kicked ass. Great bands, all of 'em.

I don't know why'd you'd say that the Germans were overpowered by the American waves of thrashers. Germans had vast legions of their own.

Assassin, Destruction, Iron Angel, Kreator, Sodom, Necronomicon, Massacra, Minotaur, Mekong Delta, Paradox, Violent Force, Vectom, etc.

But again, who gives a crap about this "origins of thrash" bullshit. Motorhead pretty well provided the initial spark for all of these early thrashers anyway, and they don't even consider themselves a metal band.

I don't give a crap. All I stated was that I prefer the German, Swiss, and Brazilian bands to the American ones. I don't think I said anything about the origins of the genre. I did say that these guys were around at the same time as those guys yet receive little to no credit.

There is a decent amount of good American thrash bands but the ones that get all the credit suck in my opinion. Harter Attack, Kublai Khan, Powermad, Whiplash, Forbidden, Defiance and a couple of other ones are pretty damn good. I don't enjoy them as much as the foreign ones, but I still do enjoy them.

The thrash scene is still extremely strong in Brazil. A majority of the bands I listed broke up. Vulcano and Holocausto got back together and have released new albums. Korzus and Attomica are still around. And you have dozens of bands like Farscape and Bywar that play fantastic thrash metal. Thrash nowadays is unfortunately almost dead as the original bands that are still around mostly sold out or now play groove/neo-thrash. Destruction's last 2 albums are really lame and generic. I only liked Kreator and Sodom's first 4 albums. However, Necronomicon's newest album (released in '04, first album since '94) is still good solid thrash metal which is rare to see nowadays...

[Oi_Oi_Spanky]

I've one album by Sarcofago, that's enough for me.


Staying Brazilian, has anyone got Dark Ages yet? Seems that the pace has been stepped up for the majority of the album, which is nice. Shame about the same old rehashed lyrics & ideas though. Oh & Max's production skills.

Finaly, a whole recording without a tribute to Dana Wells.

[HetmanTancred]

Wagner Antichrist of Sarcofago was a founding member of Sepultura. There a bunch of internal disputes so Antichrist said, fuck this I'm gonna go make my own band. He contributed quite a bit to the writing of the music which is pretty damn obvious if you listen to the first 2 Sepultura albums. He wrote the song Antichrist as well which was stolen by Sepultura.

Which Sarcofago album do you have?

[Russman]

I've yet to be ensnared by Iced Earth. My brother digs their stuff, and I've heard some songs from Horror Show that I really like, but they're just one of those bands that I consistently find myself passing over. I have read a lot of good things about Night of the Stormrider, though..

Russman, what's your top recommendation from those four Iced Earth albums you picked up?
Definitely Night of the Stormrider. However, Something Wicked This Way Comes has a good mixture of up tempo and ballads, plus Matt Barlow is the singer, he's pretty good. They all seem to be concept albums, mostly fantasy stuff. I like em because I can understand the lyrics, as in 'comprehend' them. It's not a garbled mess of harsh loud noise coming out of the singers mouths, the singers in Iced Earth actually sing. I say singers because of those 4 albums I bought, there are 3 different singers. Matt Barlow is on SWTWC and Burnt Offerings, Tim Owens on Glorious Burden, and I don't know the other guy who sings NotS.

[HetmanTancred]

John Greely is on Night of the Stormrider. He was kicked out for being a nazi. Good singer though...

[ary incorparated]

soon Ary inc will rise,Lol im still trying to form a band but coming closer.

[Oi_Oi_Spanky]

I have The Laws Of The Scourge. Probably a bit of the later stuff in 1992. I don't rate it too much. Sacred Reich's Ignorance leaves that & mostly everything I can think of for dead. Does anyone have a copy of Massacre's From Beyond? I've seen it going for silly amounts second hand. I bought a copy & saw them at the Marquee when they were promoting it. Has to be one of the best gigs ever. Rick Rozz has a wammy bar permanently welded to his hand I think. Top solos.

[HetmanTancred]

Ah. Laws Of Scourge was a normal thrash album. There was none of their extreme black metal influence in it. I like it. The only Sarcofago album I don't like is the cleverly named The Worst. The Worst indeed.

Ignornace is Sacred Reich's only decent album in my opinion. I own Independent and a promo copy of Heal and those are just godawful...

[Oi_Oi_Spanky]

Doust Sir revel in The American Way? It's not bad, not great either. The Surf Nicaragua EP is the bollocks.

[ary incorparated]

I was in Hengelo today @holland offcourse Dutch metal kindo rules yesterday i was in Almelo @ the stam and there was a german band called ugly stiff but those germans alslo play kindo good but it wasnt my stuff sore that My mates from Total infection where great only the audience sucked i liked too see some pits,sore they werent that good cause one band member broke its E snare,but bad things can happen,i call it okay yesterday @ the stam and Today @ the null they made upp big time everything was gooing smootly from some nice pits too the awesome metal they bring Thumbs up for Total infection.Maybe strange to talk about dutch metal but i find it also deserves a chance couse there are some really good dutch band,Check the site hope youlle like if you dont i aint going to talk anymore about it then,no kidding i just hope youlle like it.

[HetmanTancred]

Doust Sir revel in The American Way? It's not bad, not great either. The Surf Nicaragua EP is the bollocks.

Nah I never listened to either one of those...

[ary incorparated]

I understand most people dont like metallica anymore im growing of it also but still cant say i hate it,the songs get repetetive and boring yes.Maybe a shit band slayer but i hear that al the time,and i dont care.Megadeath i like the guitar work pretty damn much it isnt the hardest but Holy wars is a nice song only the singer bit Yuck,he can play guitar but please let him shut his trap he sounds bit Axel W rose.But diffrence there may be and i wish you all the best Mettall you can have. there is in the world,Its not about what country it comes from its about how it sounds,even Dutch people,bands are genius in their way.if we al like the same we would be like one big ZZtop gang jammin al the same stuf and banging our heads on the exact rythem.For me everything is inspiring to some game riffs to guitar riffs,i even copy some megadrive songs on guitar like now im working on a Thunderforce 4 compilation LOL.

[Oi_Oi_Spanky]

Like a bit of Metallica bashing eh? You can't deny what they've accomplished. Take a look at One. That's not just a track, that can be played a thousand ways & still be an excelent song. Bit of a fave is Last Caress/Green Hell on the Garage Days EP.

[Nazza]

Heh my friend got me into that song, he loved the lyrics. I remember once he mangled the first lines of the two verses to much hilarity.

[ary incorparated]

One is a great song,bit difficult to play it on guitar but doable with in a day(4,5 hours)Metallcia isnt difficult to tab,buit still they make great music it doesnt have the be the finger quicknes of ingwie malmsteen that dude is playing like his entire live and even i dont like the macho finger stuff that dragon force does and others,thats just doable and thinking fast is the best.Maybe metallica hasnt the most difficult songs but theyre one of the few Heavy metall bands that also exseeds in doing relaxed rock music,which i also enjoy and my elders too.One is a great song,master of pupets also,i can tab them but i didnt make them,i find it simple to play metallica but still id didnt make the great sounds of the one,after tabbing it thinking is it that easy,yes it can be but still its their audience breaker,the great sound is coming from their minds it isnt at least a system of a down metallica knows what their doing with justice for all beeing their greatest album at leat one of the greates mettallica above slayer cause they also know how to do rock and nice ballads,slayer,s music satan i love statan necrophobic all about devils and 666 and hate the lyrics arent something for me but the fastness i something i like dont care if theres satan or dirty words in it i know they hopefully got a consiouce,but from slayer you cant get a noth