I've tried and tried, but I don't like any Thunder Force games

[TheGZeus]

I kinda like the art in Thunder Force 4.
But I don't like how any of them play. memorizing which guys to kill or let go, when to dodge X bullet, when to switch weapons, change speeds, zoom forward/back...
I watched the demos for TF3. Like 50-60% of the enemies were dodged. I should have watched that first. Totally not my style. I wouldn't have bothered playing too long.
I'm not that impressed with the art in 2 or 3, either. I prefer more depth to art in general. Things are just kinda flat and R-Type-ish.

HOWEVER.
I applaud anyone who can finish even a level in these games.
I was impressed with myself the first time I lased about a minute before game over.
I cannot twitch that fast...

[KillerBean2]

Memorizing which guys to kill or let go, when to dodge X bullet, when to switch weapons, change speeds, zoom forward/back...

Isn't that the basic recipe for just about any shmup?


I applaud anyone who can finish even a level in these games

Thank you!

It just takes training. I suck at shmups, so if I can beat a few levels of the game, so can you ;)

Thunder Force 4 is a fantastic game :D

[Zebbe]

I applaud anyone who can finish even a level in these games.

Thanks. I've beaten both number three and four, and will buy number two soon.

Here's a few tips: Generally, be a little bit left of the middle of the screen. Have 50 or 75% in speed, so you can dodge bullets but not fly into a wall by the slightest tap on the d-pad. Pause if you need to change your weapon in a tight situation. The learning is the funniest thing, when you can get just a liiiittle bit longer than the last time you played it ;).

[danielscheil]

i have finished nr 4 on hard settings;
i use 100 % speed and 80% of the Game front & back shot...
hunter is a good alternative to win against boss enemys relativ safe

you must get one with the musik.. that it will work ^-^

[TheGZeus]

Basically, Thunder Force games seem to go to eleven, but not lett you kill all the little fuckers flying at you.
I'm sure they're great games, I just don't like them...

It's hard to train at something you don't like...

I mean, before i got my 'sea legs' back I could barely get through a level of Lords of Thunder on easy(beaten it several times on Super now), and I've gotten at least halfway through a few Aleste games(I never continue on those, because I have yet to get over my frustration at losing all my hard-earned weapons, and that makes me suck enough that the pea-shooter is useless) but even when I lost at them, i had FUN.
Those games give me the GOOD adrenaline rush.
Thunder force games don't even give me one. I don't even get mad, really. it's like someone coming up at taking your bottomless cup of coffee from you "What the hell was that? WAITRESS, REFILL?" Except its more "What the hell was that? Guess I'll play something else."

Thing is, I don't ENJOY playing them. It's even frustrating to WATCH for me! "WHAT? Why can't you kill all those guys! Is this a dance?"

It reminds me of R-Type, but fast.

I never liked R-Type...

[Joe Redifer]

Sounds like shooters are not for you. Oh well, puzzle games aren't really for me nor are FPS games, RPGs and military shooters. There are always exceptions, and if the game has good music I can always appreciate that aspect of it.

[TheGZeus]

I play shooters for the most part.
I just don't like R-Type, and these play alot like R-Type on cocaine.
4 is the best of them. I think I got through a boss once, come to think of it.
I just didn't have as much fun as with Aleste games, or Raiden, 1941 etc.

[Joe Redifer]

Maybe you prefer overhead shooters. I really don't see any similarities between Thunder Force and R-Type other than that they are side-view. R-Type strips you of all your weapons when you die and sets you way back. Thunder Force strips you only of the weapon you are using (unless you are playing TF2) and starts you out right there. Thunder Force allows you to pick your starting stage, have more than one weapon at a time and switch between them, and adjust speed settings without getting a power up... all things that R-Type disallows. R-Type also has a small bit of strategy on how you can use your droid, whereas TF games have no such thing to begin with.

[TheGZeus]

I like side-scrolling shooters as well.
Android Assault is one of my favorite games.

Pointing out little differences in gameplay doesn't change the fact that the overall impression is similar to R-Type to me. It requires you to spend as much time watching the environment as anything, the art, the enemies, etc.
It seems to play more like a 'methodical shooter' that moves fast.

I tend to prefer a more 'manic' sytle or games with a 'run and gun' feel.

I'm not saying they're bad games, just that I don't like them.

I'm confused as to why you seem to care why or what little things.

Again with the hair splitting.
Stop it.

In fact, forget it, you're ignored.

[Germ]

yep i also find TF4 a bit boring compared to shoot-em-ups like:
elemental master
battle mania 2
eliminate down
phelios
arrow flash

i've played all of these to the end except elemental master, but i like them because of their fast pace, interesting backgrounds and cool end bosses.

[TheGZeus]

Word.

[Alianger]

Heh, arrow flash. That's one of the most boring shooters I've ever played.
You also do have to dodge enemies (among other things) in both elemental master, eliminate down and battle mania 2.

From what I can remember, TF4 has a pacing that is similar to R-Type with lots of pauses in the action. I don't like that either. The prequels don't, but they require a lot more memorization. I can't believe that anyone would get a game over within a minute in TF4 since my brother, who never plays games at all, recently beat a couple of levels on his first try and he was drunk at the time.

[TheGZeus]

This is why I don't talk to the Swedish.
There seems to a cultural difference in that tact is not highly valued. When I speak english, I have very little, but I do use it.
I prefer to speak Japanese, and 正直一徹 isn't a virtue.
Japanese is a language and a culture saying things without saying them.

This, I'm ignoring you as well, nothing personal, but the culture clash is too much for me.

[GeckoYamori]

... What?

[Drixxel]

This is why I don't talk to the Swedish.
There seems to a cultural difference in that tact is not highly valued. When I speak english, I have very little, but I do use it.
I prefer to speak Japanese, and 正直一徹 isn't a virtue.
Japanese is a language and a culture saying things without saying them.

This, I'm ignoring you as well, nothing personal, but the culture clash is too much for me.

I see nothing said in Alianger's post to deserve the response that you gave. Don't you think this "tactless Swedes" thing is a bit of a prejudicial generalization? TheGzeus, please use your precious tact and try not to offend us.

[Zebbe]

Are you Japanese, TheGZeus? If not, what country are you from?

[Joe Redifer]

I think GZeus just looks for reasons to be angry at everyone, especially considering the post from me that made him put me on his ignore list. I consider what I listed to be significant differences.

[Zebbe]

What post from you, Joe?

[GeckoYamori]

Maybe you prefer overhead shooters. I really don't see any similarities between Thunder Force and R-Type other than that they are side-view. R-Type strips you of all your weapons when you die and sets you way back. Thunder Force strips you only of the weapon you are using (unless you are playing TF2) and starts you out right there. Thunder Force allows you to pick your starting stage, have more than one weapon at a time and switch between them, and adjust speed settings without getting a power up... all things that R-Type disallows. R-Type also has a small bit of strategy on how you can use your droid, whereas TF games have no such thing to begin with.


I'm confused as to why you seem to care why or what little things.

Again with the hair splitting.
Stop it.

In fact, forget it, you're ignored.

Quite uncalled for.

[TheGZeus]

I see nothing said in Alianger's post to deserve the response that you gave. Don't you think this "tactless Swedes" thing is a bit of a prejudicial generalization? TheGzeus, please use your precious tact and try not to offend us.
I'm not saying it's a bad thing.
From a logical standpoint, tact is worthless.

And this is something I've encountered with EVERY SINGLE person who's originated from Sweden. I've spoken with people with Swedish friends, and they agree that 'Shoujiki' is the best way to describe their conversational attitude. Say waht you think, PERIOD.

I used to do that as well. I gained more friends here after I stopped. I'm now so used to the use of alot of tact that I know I'll get annoyed.

"Wow, you can't beat this game? My drunken brother can!"
He's simply stating facts, but he failed to see(or didn't care) that can be constrewed as "WOW, YOU SUCK!"

Prejudice implies you have something against that group. I'm just stating things as I see them and stating why I cannot handle dealing with him. I know my limits.
I would have aded him to my ignore list no matter what(if he'd been an American I'd have just said he was rude, in fact).

Japanese people are often vague and beat around the bush. Almost every single Japanese person I've met is like that.
The expeptions: one has lived in the USA for 6 years, the other..wants to move to Sweden.

Countries' cultures can be different, in fact they always are.
I simply know I'm likely to lose my temper if I read infiltered brutal honesty too much.
I'm attempting to AVOID a conflict.

[TheGZeus]

Are you Japanese, TheGZeus? If not, what country are you from?
The USA, and I want out.
Too many people proud of...existing.

Plus the economy's going into the shitter, and there's more demand for people that want to teach English there.

[TheGZeus]

Quite uncalled for.
I have a history with him.

He never posts anything actually helpful, all he does is split hairs, post lies(thinking it's funny) and generally try to aggravate people.
Not only this forum.

I think I might delete this thread. Nothing good has come of it.

I've gotten one person who agreed with me, one person who thinks I just suck, and three people trying to convince me that I should keep trying, even though I don't find it fun at all.

[Zebbe]

I would have aded him to my ignore list no matter what(if he'd been an American I'd have just said he was rude, in fact).


I'd say that is discrimination. Doing one thing if a Swede says something you don't like, and doing another thing if an American says the same thing you don't like.

[GeckoYamori]

Seems to me that you're the one breeding conflict in spite of your presumed intentions. Nobody here has resorted to personal attacks. You might get that misconception from the drunken friend statement, but he's certainly not thinking less of you just because you're not that talented at Thunder Force.

Bringing up national disputes like that is something I'd call tactless, cause it's a hell of a lot more likely to offend someone.

[TheGZeus]

I'd say that is discrimination. Doing one thing if a Swede says something you don't like, and doing another thing if an American says the same thing you don't like.
So it's bad to be MORE polite to him because it's a part of his culture?
I have higher expectations of someone raised in this culture in that case, if it was a matter of education, I'd have higher expectations of a Swedish person VS an American(the USA educational system....GRRRR).

Different cultures.
it's OK to admit differences.

I'm sorry that I have a short fuse in these matters.
I TRULY AM SORRY. I'm sure he's a great guy.

Were he an american, I'd have said "well, that was rude" and added him to the list.
As he is Swedish "There's a culture clash. Nothing personal, I just know I can't deal with it. Sorry."
Same result, different reason.

[TheGZeus]

I KNOW he didn't mean anything by it.
I also know I'll make a mistake in the future and take something as an insult.
Then an argument will ensew, and I'll be at fault.

I just wanted to let him know before hand that I won't be able to see his posts.

I'll admit I was tactless, but I was honestly trying to communicate on a straightforward level so I'd be understood in the same way he was trying to: Exactly what he said and nothing more.

I find it ironic that my statement was rooted in the fact that brutal, concise honesty leaves room for inference, but in stating it brutally and concisely I allowed the same inference.

See? The same way you're misunderstanding me is how I tend to misunderstand the Swedish.
Their/your straightforward honesty is different than mine, and what gets lost in translation causes conflict.

I really am sorry, I'm trying to get better at this, but I should work harder, I guess.

[Joe Redifer]

Why do so many threads that GZeus participates in go downhill like this?

[Knuckles-chaotix]

Just got my thunderforce III in the post today! Japanese version! Bloody amazing! love it!

[Gentlegamer]

By all means, delete this thread.

[TheGZeus]

Apparantly only a mod can do that.

[David J.]

Why do so many threads that GZeus participates in go downhill like this?

People like to feed trolls, like him and 16bitter (who has vanished...)

[TheGZeus]

Also, Joe seems compelled to come in and taunt me on multiple forums, and I don't take it.

I'm not a troll. I'm actually GENUINELY SHOCKED that so many people are unwilling to accept that other cultures have different values, and that may or may not make it hard to talk with them.
It someone was christian minister, I doubt I'd be great pals with them(there are exceptions, but I'm speaking in hypotheticals and genralisations) because our beliefs clash on certain fundamental levels.
It's justa fact. Certain things are different in different countries.

Just like I plain DON'T ENJOY PLAYING Thunder Force games, I find myself needlessly angered/confused by the speech patterns and extreme frankness of Swedish people(as in people THEMSELVES from Sweden).
People who know people from there agree.

They're very honest folks. I admire that, but it leads me into unneccesary conflicts.
Like THIS.

Americans always hear "You're all so fat and stupid" and we say "Hmmm... I think there's something to that."
I say "A useless conversational tool isn't very popular in that country in my experience." and I get "YOU FUCKING RACIST!!!"

That's called an exaggeration.
A lierary device used to make a point.

[Knuckles-chaotix]

wha?

[Joe Redifer]

I dunno.

I also don't know what other forums I "come in to taunt him" at since I haven't signed up for any new forums for quite a long time.

[KillerBean2]

I've gotten one person who agreed with me, one person who thinks I just suck, and three people trying to convince me that I should keep trying, even though I don't find it fun at all.

I don't get it. So why did start this thread to begin with? Just to make people agree with you? Isn't that rather.... useless?

The internet is MADE for conflicts! It's the one place, where they do no harm. After all:

"Arguing on the Internet is like competing in the Special Olympics. Even if
you win, you're still retarded."

And to clear up the "culture clash". The guy, who you think, thinks you suck actually just thinks that you should keep trying, even though you don't find it fun at all.... with good reason.

Not all good things are fun to begin with ;)

[TheGZeus]

I was hoping to find like-minded shmup players, and discusss what kind of games we DO like, and perhaps find new games in that vein.

I got his point overall, but it sure doesn't look like that at first glance, at least not to me. His manner of speaking disagrees with my thought process on a fundamental level. That was my point.

"I've tried and tried..."
So I've said from the beginning.
Just because it's good, doesn't mean I have to like it.
Is Goodfellas a good movie? Yeah. Do I enjoy watching it? Not really.
Not my style.

[KillerBean2]

I was hoping to find like-minded shmup players, and discusss what kind of games we DO like, and perhaps find new games in that vein.

Why didn't you just say so to begin with? There's no way I could read that from the first post :?

Not a great shooter fan.. not yet anyway, so I'll be checking out now. See ya'! :D

[Mr Smith]

By the look of this topic Thuder Force brings out a lot of passion. I might have to buy myself a copy.

Also, was Thunder Force II an arcade game? If it is I remember playing it as a young sprog and it was so awesome I kept having nose bleeds. If it isn't I am obviously thinking about some other game.

[Zebbe]

I say "A useless conversational tool isn't very popular in that country in my experience." and I get "YOU FUCKING RACIST!!!"

Who said "YOU FUCKING RACIST!!!"? Sounds like you make up quotes of your own to show people how sorry they should be for you, when you are just doing your best to avoid cultural clashes no one else at the forum ever experience here.

[Knuckles-chaotix]

This is the first ever confrontational discussion i have ever seen on this usually very peacefull forum!
Maybe it should be removed now!

[GeckoYamori]

This isn't a culture clash. I have never encountered anyone else with such severe problems with our supposedly "tactless behaviour". You're basicly just saying that everyone who disagrees with you must conform to your views, or make it look like it so you won't feel offended. You're not going to get far in arguments with that attitude.

[Mr Smith]

This is the first ever confrontational discussion i have ever seen on this usually very peacefull forum!
Maybe it should be removed now!

Agreed, or locked at least, although if somebody would like to answer my question about Thunder Force II being an arcade game first, that would be very nice.

Also, I am not prejudice, I hate everybody regardless of race, religion, sexual orientation or point of view. Thanks.

[KillerBean2]

although if somebody would like to answer my question about Thunder Force II being an arcade game first, that would be very nice.

There is an arcade game called Thunder Force 2 MD for the MegaDrive-like MEGA-TECH system. I don't know if it's the same game :)

There is also an arcade game called Thunder Force AC.

http://klov.com/game_detail.php?letter=&game_id=10102

[Joe Redifer]

Yes, Thunder Force AC was basically Thunder Force 3 as an arcade, but the weapons were on the bottom of the screen. They also removed some stages and threw in a stage from Thunder Force II. There is also one or two new stages with great new music. I have the game as it came with the Thunder Force Gold Pack on the Saturn. You can also play it on MAME, and the SNES "Thunder Spirits" was a (bad) translation of Thunder Force AC.

Thunder Force AC is the only Thunder Force game meant specifically for an arcade. Thunder Force II MD just signifies that it was a Mega Drive game, as the original TF2 was on the Sharp 68000 or something like that. The first game was on one of those Japanese home computers as well.

[VinnyT]

Good, we're getting back on the right track. Just keep it calm and locking won't be neccesary.

[Mr Smith]

There is an arcade game called Thunder Force 2 MD for the MegaDrive-like MEGA-TECH system. I don't know if it's the same game :)

There is also an arcade game called Thunder Force AC.

http://klov.com/game_detail.php?letter=&game_id=10102

Thunder Force AC looks a little bit like it, but after spending some time thinking (which isn't an easy thing to do) the game I was thinking of was Thunder Cross II. Thanks anyway.

[TheGZeus]

Who said "YOU FUCKING RACIST!!!"? Sounds like you make up quotes of your own to show people how sorry they should be for you, when you are just doing your best to avoid cultural clashes no one else at the forum ever experience here.
Try reading entire posts before replying to them and taking things out of context.

[TheGZeus]

This isn't a culture clash. I have never encountered anyone else with such severe problems with our supposedly "tactless behaviour". You're basicly just saying that everyone who disagrees with you must conform to your views, or make it look like it so you won't feel offended. You're not going to get far in arguments with that attitude.
Nope.
It's not what was said, but the manner in which it was said.

I never claimed anyone else has had problems, simply that I do.

I've explained myself clearly.

Anything said against me at this point can only be explained as a purely emotional response, which is what I was trying to avoid doing myself.

[TheGZeus]

Good, we're getting back on the right track. Just keep it calm and locking won't be neccesary.
I've actually never been angry, just moderately confused.

[stalepie]

I agree. I rather play others like Trouble Shooter, Fire Shark, Burning Force, Gaiares. Can you say "guy-are-us"?

[Alianger]

Wow. This really got out of hand, didn't it? If GZeus gets to read this, I'd like to explain that I was simply implying that he seemed to be contradicting himself and also exaggerating the difficulty of TFIV...
I usually don't use that kind of language to prove my point, but I laughed out loud reading his posts since I had watched my brother play just a couple of days before, and even though he barely moved his spaceship (He figured since he was drunk it wouldn't do any good) while playing managed to get through 2 whole levels. If you think about it, you'd have to agree that this says quite a bit about TFIV's gameplay.

I got the impression from his first posts that he either wanted to discuss the game's qualities or that he, as is often the case with these topics, just wanted people to agree with him. I think it's been confirmed that the latter was true in this case.


In reply to the above, I've actually heard it pronounced "gay-ar*e". To which I replied "It's a fine piece of ar*e though".

[Joe Redifer]

I've always said "Guy-ers" Sounds kind of like "MacGyver" without the "Mac".

The US Renovation ad with that gimpy dude showing off the horrible US box art (some of the worst ever) demands we say "Guy-Are-Us". But I have the Japanese version with the naked chick on the cover so I can say "Guy-ers". :)