Yet Another 32X Region Question (Different Though)

[The Taxman]

I was wondering, I have a PAL Megadrive and 32X, so obviously most NTSC 32X games will be locked out. Using a Game Genie, I've worked out some codes to patch the region letter in the rom which works for Megadrive games (sometimes you also need to patch the checksum).

My question is, would the same idea work for 32X games if I use the game genie to patch the region code from 5 to A? As far as i've tested, the game-genie works on the 32X... long enough to boot a game at least, which is fine for a region bypass, since you can just turn the GG off once it starts up.

Has anyone tried something like this? And if the game worked, were the graphics etc ok?

Thanks!

[David J.]

It'll work via emulation, there's a GG code for Darxide, but it won't work on real hardware.

[evildragon]

I'd imagine this working ok for the Language region setting, but not for the PAL NTSC region setting..

The 32X needs to be "synced" with the Genesis, and that is done by a hardware jumper inside the 32X (it controls one of the 315 chips, one that overlays graphics).

[Joe Redifer]

You can not use a Game Genie with 32X games.

[The Taxman]

Awesome, thanks for that... one other strange thing, I opened up my Mega 32X to give it a clean and noticed near the cart port it says "Mars NTSC V0" or something similar... shouldn't it say "Mars PAL V0" ? Weird :?

[evildragon]

The boards are technically the same..

Only thing different: jumper in different position, and crystal for color is different..

[Joe Redifer]

The 32X itself doesn't have any region encoding/blocking/restrictions/whatnot. Yes, it does PAL color, but the lockout is done by the Mega Drive/Genesis.

[evildragon]

The 32X itself doesn't have any region encoding/blocking/restrictions/whatnot. Yes, it does PAL color, but the lockout is done by the Mega Drive/Genesis.
Yes it does.. It has jumpers on the board on the front right side, either position tells the 32X it's either PAL or NTSC.. It MUST match the MD, or the games either come up corrupted, or don't boot at all...

[evildragon]

here joe: http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://www.segakore.net/articles/switch_32x.php&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=5&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3D315-5788%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26client%3Dsafari%26rls%3De n

[Joe Redifer]

Yeah that looks like a region mod for PAL/NTSC. But aside from the obvious PAL/NTSC differences, I've read that the 32X does not add any additional region protection. Maybe the PAL one is different. Europe always gets shafted.

[evildragon]

It needs a mod.. I got the PAL version of Knuckle Chaotix, and if I put only the Genny in PAL, it fails to boot.. I have to switch the 32X to PAL also...

[Joe Redifer]

Seems redundant.

[evildragon]

well it makes sense really..

the 32X first of all, isn't going to know what sync it's being sent.. It doesn't have the circuitry to detect it.. So it needs to be set to know what it's handling (240p or 288p), otherwise it just won't boot.. This is also used as regional lockout...

[Elusive]

Let me get this straight. Correct me if I'm wrong:

The Mega Drive is essentially the same machine through all regions, only built to output PAL/SECAM or NTSC video and the internal language setting. Most early games will run on machines of any region - however, at some point in late-1992-early-1993 SEGA and other companies (not EA) began to put region lockouts on their software to halt the sale of import games. This code compares the hardware's region/video setting against the region/video setting the software expects via the region code; if they match, the game will boot. If not, an error message or similar will display.

The 32X is similarly the same machine through all regions. However, it can detect the region of the Mega Drive it is plugged into via the video input it receives - if it receives 50Hz signal it is in a PAL area, if it is recieving a 60Hz signal it is in an NTSC region. I'd imagine there's some code that checks the Mega Drive's internal language setting, too, or you wouldn't be able to play imported Mega Drive games through the 32X via the dual-switchmod.
There is also an internal setting that determines whether the 32X outputs a 50Hz or 60Hz signal. So, to check the region of a game, the 32X reads its cartridge slot: if it is a Mega Drive game, it boots the Mega Drive as usual (do any games trigger the 32X by mistake at all?). If it is a 32X, it reads the region code of the software. Let's say it's Tempo, for the American Sega 32X/Genesis combo. It reads the code as 5. This means the 32X needs to check the video input it receives from the Genesis: is it 60Hz NTSC? If so, check the internal language setting. Is it Overseas? If so, check what video output the 32X itself is outputting - 60Hz NTSC? If so, then it is the full American Genesis/Sega 32X combo. This is covered under the '5' region code, so the game boots.

So if I wanted to play Tempo on my Mega Drive/Mega Drive 32X combo, I'd need to set my Mega Drive to output an NTSC signal, and leave the language setting as Overseas. I'd then need to fit a switch to the 32X as well, so it output an NTSC signal.

I'd be interested in how the Super 32X (Japanese) lockout works - whether it syncs up with the Mega Drive as the other 32Xs do, or some unique method. We really need Steve Snake on this board. :(

[evildragon]

That link I provided above, explains exactly what kinda region checking 32X games does, and weather a modded 32X is required.. (if it's a JAP to ENG thing, only the Genesis needs modding)

[segagamer]

I have to agree with Joe Redifer that the 32X itself does not have regional lockout. I also believe the games themselves do not, as some games boot up with different names depending on the machine they are plugged into, similar to some early Genesis titles.

[evildragon]

If you're going to agree with Joe, then maybe you should check out the link I PROVIDED...

Obviously if there is a regional mod for the 32X, it MUST have lockout!

[Joe Redifer]

That's a video mod, though.

[evildragon]

That's a video mod, though.
it may be, but SEGA chose to use it as a regional lockout too..

the 32X just won't boot if it's not set correctly.. Knuckles Chaotix PAL version won't boot on my 32X..

Here's what I noticed. That mod doesn't JUST tell the 32X what to output.

Play NTSC Knuckles Chaotix.

Boot Console NTSC, boot 32X NTSC. Game runs fine.. Put MD in PAL, 32X in NTSC, characters get misplaced.. Put both in PAL, game runs fine...

[Joe Redifer]

OK how does the Japanese 32X work? It's NTSC since it is normal. Combine that with the Genesis and.... what happens?

[evildragon]

OK how does the Japanese 32X work? It's NTSC since it is normal. Combine that with the Genesis and.... what happens?
works fine.. that's why old timers in the SEGA scene say the 32X is "frequency locked", that's what it really means...

[Joe Redifer]

Which basically means what I've been trying to say... there is no extra region protection built in other than the PAL/NTSC issue.

[evildragon]

Which basically means what I've been trying to say... there is no extra region protection built in other than the PAL/NTSC issue.
yea, i thought you were saying the 32X had no protection, period.. but it does, it does have some protection too, in the NTSC PAL area, along-side with the MD..

[Joe Redifer]

What I was trying to say is that the Mega Drive/Genesis has a "language setting" which in all honesty is the region setting in addition to the PAL/NTSC setting (50/60Hz), whereas the 32X only has the 50/60Hz.

I wish the Game Genie worked on 32X games. I am a bit surprised that it works in emulation.

[evildragon]

yea.. well, GG will work in emulation because the emulators can automatically switch the 32X region lock...

on real hardware, this is a hardware modification, and i don't think it would work on the 32X part (but the MD part may very well work)

[Joe Redifer]

It doesn't have anything to do with the region. The Game Genie boots into Genesis mode and nothing at all happens when a 32X cartridge is attached.

[evildragon]

ok..

this is a guess: because the 32X is the "master", and the Genesis is the "slave", chances are that's why.. the GG "needs" to be programmed in SH2 for it to work..

[Joe Redifer]

But the Game Genie has codes that allow for 32X games to have extra lives, invincibility and whatnot... but they only work in an emulator.

I always thought of the Genesis being the "Master" since most 32X games are Genesis games with a high-colored sprite or two.

[evildragon]

But the Game Genie has codes that allow for 32X games to have extra lives, invincibility and whatnot... but they only work in an emulator.

I always thought of the Genesis being the "Master" since most 32X games are Genesis games with a high-colored sprite or two.
then maybe theres a special game genie..

if i remember, game genies only modified RAM contents..

and 32X is master.. it's still the main system.. it really only uses the Genesis for FM sound, a graphical layer (most of the time), and the controller input/output..

[Joe Redifer]

I dunno about that. Maybe in some games it is master, good games like Space Harrier, After Burner, Virtua Racing and Virtua Fighter. But like I said, most other 32X games aren't even distinguishable from Genesis games. Same sound, same graphics, same control as their Genesis counterparts. Do you really think the developer is going to rewrite the entire game in SH2 code? No way.

Here's Game Genie codes... regular Game Genie:
http://www.angelfire.com/games2/codehut/32XGG.txt

[evildragon]

Well, just seeing how the 32X works, getting it to be slave is hard work... It "wants" to be master, because of it's BIOS, that gets shoved in the Genesis's face.. The only way is good coding that isn't even 32X code at all (or get the Sega CD involved aka: Sega CD 32X games)

[Joe Redifer]

Maybe all of the data on the cart is 68000 code and it just passes that through to the Genesis. And the 2 or 3 lines of code that are actually SH2 get processed by the 32X accordingly. I bet WWF RAW does this, since it is barely even distinguishable from a Master System game.

I would think if the 32X was always master, we'd have seen some games that would have been above Genesis quality on a more consistent level.

[evildragon]

Maybe all of the data on the cart is 68000 code and it just passes that through to the Genesis. And the 2 or 3 lines of code that are actually SH2 get processed by the 32X accordingly. I bet WWF RAW does this, since it is barely even distinguishable from a Master System game.

I would think if the 32X was always master, we'd have seen some games that would have been above Genesis quality on a more consistent level.
Well, not all true.. You can tell if the game is SH2 or not...

Right after the TMSS screen, but before the SEGA logo, if you hear a slight pop in the audio, it's SH2 (because it needed the 32X active before anything even happened).. If you see "SEGA", THEN a pop, or a pop any time after SEGA, it's 68000 code only using the 32X for graphics...

(the pop is the 32X essentially "waking up")

[Joe Redifer]

I don't have a TMSS screen. That screen is for communists. The 32X will usually be in charge of sprites (and little to nothing else), but I doubt it is processing the whole game logic. The SH2 must be engaged to draw the sprites, but as far as having the whole game code in SH2... no way.

[evildragon]

In DOOM it does have the whole game code in it... DOOM is an example of "Genesis-Slave"...

The only thing the Genesis does is the text, and heads up display, that's about it... The 32X is the busy one (on mine, when playing Doom, the Genesis temp is normal, but the 32X does rise --using an IR thermometer--, where on Knuckles Chaotix, not so much)

Knuckles Chaotix is a wacky game.. It's running in the 32X master concept, but yea, all the 32X does there is sprites.. the Genesis draws the entire background.. I think they only used the 32X because it could scale and rotate..

[Joe Redifer]

DOOM is doing stuff like crazy space-age 3D to blow our minds, which it truly did. (I have permanent brain damage as a result of 32X DOOM being so powerful). So logic says that the 32X is calling da shots in that game.

[Elusive]

All the Game Genie does is intercept requests by the Mega Drive to certain parts of the ROM's code, and feed it different information. The reason it works in an emulator is because the game isn't being emulated as though it was permanently plugged into a Game Genie - it's the emulator doing the Game Genie's work.

It's a shame the 32X died out when it did. So much power left untapped.

edit: From what I can make out from the Segakore article, all this switch mod does is change whether your 32X outputs PAL or NTSC video - which syncs with the output from the Mega Drive's AV-OUT and therefore combines with your Mega Drive's region to enable you to blarg this is complicated

[seganutt]

hey guys does any body know if u can run a ntsc 32x. on a pal megadrive-mega cd set up regards seganutt

[Zebbe]

I do. But my Mega Drive is 60 Hz modded. It doesn't work well in 50 Hz IIRC.

[evildragon]

If you want the 32X to be PAL for your system (because it will not work! Genlock issues), you'll need to screw with some resistors in the 32X. Also, if you do, video output color will be broken, unless you are using RGB.

[seganutt]

ok cool how about runing ntsc 32x games on a pal megadrive 32x mega cd setup this is what i own. ntsc games are cheaper and easy to get pal cost heap and hard to get. is there away to play ntsc 32x games on a pal 32x say a mod maybe!

[TmEE]

Region mods must be done in your MD, and that video mod in the 32X and unless you use RGB, you'll not have colors. And youre speaking of PAL, which should mean Europe, which in turn means you probably have TV(s) with SCART which has RGB and all other inputs required.

[evildragon]

Region mods must be done in your MD, and that video mod in the 32X and unless you use RGB, you'll not have colors. And youre speaking of PAL, which should mean Europe, which in turn means you probably have TV(s) with SCART which has RGB and all other inputs required.
Um, 32X's are different here.

You only need to region mod the 32X if the scanrate is to be different.

If the scanrate is different, you actually will NOT lose color, as weird as it is.

If it's a Japanese or American 32X modofied to output 50Hz, it will actually do NTSC-50.... If it's a euro 32X modified to 60Hz, it will do PAL-60...

The scanrate mod is only needed if you have to change scanrates. It changes the genlock on the video mixer, to know what to expect..

[TmEE]

Oh, k... so I can get PAL60, like from my DC... so composite people will not miss anything... anyway, that French site is gone now, do you have any pics/notes and such ?

[evildragon]

I would have to get that 32X back, it's my mothers now.

But yes, when I get to it, I can open it up and snap pics on what I did.. I did seriously screw up the mod though, because the resistor fell off when it shouldn't have and it looks like a mess, but I'm sure you could figure out how it "should" have gone.

[seganutt]

so i take it i have to get the megadrive and the 32x moded to play ntsc 32x games on my pal 32x right? and were whould i get this done in australia?

[evildragon]

Yes, Genesis needs 60Hz switch, and 32X needs 60Hz Genlock switch.

No idea where you can get it done.

[seganutt]

In DOOM it does have the whole game code in it... DOOM is an example of "Genesis-Slave"...

The only thing the Genesis does is the text, and heads up display, that's about it... The 32X is the busy one (on mine, when playing Doom, the Genesis temp is normal, but the 32X does rise --using an IR thermometer--, where on Knuckles Chaotix, not so much)

Knuckles Chaotix is a wacky game.. It's running in the 32X master concept, but yea, all the 32X does there is sprites.. the Genesis draws the entire background.. I think they only used the 32X because it could scale and rotate..
well if that was the case then knuckles chaotix could have been done on mega cd dont you think?

[seganutt]

Yes, Genesis needs 60Hz switch, and 32X needs 60Hz Genlock switch.

No idea where you can get it done.
cool i will try to find out:)

[evildragon]

well if that was the case then knuckles chaotix could have been done on mega cd dont you think?
Yes, actually they could have, but some things like bonus levels used polygons, even the last final boss stage, which was nothing spectacular...