ToToTEK SMS Converter Question

[InternalPrimate]

I just recently bought the "Master System/MarkIII Converter for Genesis/MegaDrive 16Bits Console" from ToToTEK. The product description says that it will work on all region Genesis'/Megadrives, but does this mean that I can play PAL MS games on my US system?

Any advice (and I'm aware that the product is really obscure) would be greatly appreciated.


*UPDATE* Just read a SMS faq that stated that PAL games will work on a US system. I guess this thread should be closed :)

[David J.]

Some PAL games WON'T work well...

http://sg1000.emucamp.com/sgr/smscompat.txt

[Zebbe]

Master System games never had any region lock, except for the cart sizes between JP and western games.

[David J.]

Well there are problems due to PAL and NTSC... if you read the guide, you'd see what I mean.

[InternalPrimate]

I read a guide on the master system (written by Jeff Bogumil) which lists a number of games that have problems running on an NTSC system. There are really only a few PAL games I'm interested in though (Sonic 2, Sonic Chaos) so hopefully it wont be too much of an issue.

[David J.]

The sonic games other than Spinball and Blast (Tectoy only) and the Sonic 2 packaging variation are the most common SMS games in Europe. Keep that in mind, so you don't spend a lot of money.

[Joe Redifer]

I think there are only a couple EU carts that won't run in the US, though they may run at warp speed since our TV is super fast and theirs is pathetically slow. I hate things that are slow. Anyway some Japanese cards don't work on US systems because of some header problem. I doubt Tototek would ever design something that allowed you to use cards/3D glasses anyway, so no worries.

[Zebbe]

our TV is super fast and theirs is pathetically slow. I hate things that are slow.

While you yankees have more Blast Processing, we Europeans have better High Definition Graphics in our televisions.

[Joe Redifer]

Nooooo. High definition is the same over there as it is here. You guys had more standard definition. And since the Genesis is high definition that didn't matter. Instead it just ran slow and renamed a certain game "Protectobor" for no reason.

[Zebbe]

Really? Always when I see American video it is blurry as Mega CD FMVs. And PAL consoles at least have higher resolution than NTSC ones, so I thought that was for the TVs too. Blame the Germans for renaming Contra Hard Corps - they don't want their kidz to become violent and start a third world war they will lose. Killing with robots instead of humans is less inspiring to kill others, they thought.

[David J.]

I've heard that PAL has a better picture quality, and is good for TV watching, but it's slow as shit.

[Joe Redifer]

Yeah, PAL kicks NTSC's ass when things don't move to quickly. But they had super-letterbox for Genesis games I hear. This is why they invented the PAL-NTSC combo set for use over there. Also, PAL only runs at 1 or 2 frames per second. NTSC runs at about 16,288 fps.

[InternalPrimate]

Just received the cart today and I'm really looking forward to testing it out. Unfortunately, the couple of PAL games I've purchased haven't been delivered yet :(

[Elusive]

Super-simplified, but I understood that you could get a marginally better picture with video encoded in the PAL format because it has a larger number of horizontal scanlines, and PAL-60 simply refreshes the image 60 times per second. Back when I had a TV tuner card in my PC, using PAL-60 games plugged into the aerial-in socket (RF) meant that a little way up from the bottom of the monitor, the image stopped and started again below; my card was PAL-60 compatible, it just didn't resize the image properly.

It's not like PAL TVs show images ~20% slower than NTCS TVs =P

[Joe Redifer]

PAL has slightly better color space as well (rf/composite/s-video only). But with component it really doesn't matter anymore.

[nineallday00]

Wonderboy in monster world will not work on your genesis unless you have an MS controller. Everything else I have that is pal works. sonic 2, sonic chaos work fine.

I'd recommend you pick up psycho fox and zillion. Great games there.

[InternalPrimate]

Just a little update:

At the moment I only own three games: Golvellius: Valley of Doom, Fantasy Zone: The Maze, and Y's: The Vanished Omens. All three are US games, yet Golvellius doesn't work (huge disappointment). I had the game tested on an actual SMS, and it worked fine.

On a related note, I just happened upon a Power Converter at the swap meet. So I'm going to see if I can "modify" that to play on my Genesis 2.




I'd recommend you pick up psycho fox and zillion. Great games there.

Funny you should say that, these are the games I've purchased/ordered: Zillion, Psycho Fox, Sonic 1-2-Chaos, Fantasy Zone 1 & 2, The Lucky Dime Caper (starring Donald Duck), Alex Kidd in Miracle World, and Alex Kidd and The Lost Stars.

[Joe Redifer]

Why would Golvellius work just fine on my Power Base Converter but not at all on your Tototototek thingy? Perhaps it is the fault of the Genesis 2, which everyone on the planet concludes is inferior?

[InternalPrimate]

I'm not sure. Sonic Chaos (PAL) just came in the mail though, and it works perfectly. So I'm starting to think that it's just MY copy of Golvellius. Still, I haven't yet tried the actual Power Base Converter, so we'll see.

As for the Genesis 2, I thought that aside from appearance - and a headphone jack - it was identical to the original Genny. Am I wrong?


UPDATE!!!!: Wow. I just tinkered with the Tototek Converter for a bit, and now Golvellius works. For some reason it's required that I power on the system with the game in it, and then power it off and on again, without taking the game out. It NEVER starts the first time, but always starts the second time. I'm a little embarrassed that I've been complaining, but the joy of having a working SMS more than makes up for that.

[Joe Redifer]

That's odd. Yes, the Genesis 2 innards are different, but it should be compatible with all SMS games except F-16 Fighting Falcon and a few Japanese card games, just like the Genesis 1.

[InternalPrimate]

I assume the Tototek Converter uses the same pass-through technology as the Power Base, so it is possible that the problems could be due to the Genesis 2. It's a little funny though, I used to have a similar problem with my NES. I believe that was due to dirty contacts though, and everything I own for the SMS is either clean or new, so... not sure if the problems are related.

[Seldane]

Master System games never had any region lock, except for the cart sizes between JP and western games.

Are you sure? Doesn't Japanese game use a different pinout? I've never confirmed this myself but it would be so awesome if they did. Incompatibility rules.

[Zebbe]

Yes, pin out was what I meant, sorry. But incompability sucks! How can you like that?

[Seldane]

I was kidding.

By the way, does the pinout differ? You never really confirmed it.

[Zebbe]

Wikipedia says:


Sega Master System game cartridges released outside Japan had a different shape and pin configuration to the Japanese Master System/Mark III cartridges. This may be seen as a form of regional lockout.

[Elusive]

Japanese Mark III cartridges are the same shape as a Master System cart turned to the right 90 degrees. I'd imagine all the Tototek converter simply routes the Mk3 pins to the correct lines on the Mega Drive.

I'm torn right now between getting a Model 1 Master System for the SCART capability (no more fiddling with RF switches), and waiting to find out what Fonzie's next project turns out like. I've got a passthrough Master System Converter, but it does not work with my 32X combo.

[David J.]

or you can mod a Master System 2 for RGB...

[Joe Redifer]

I am really interested in seeing what Fonzie comes up with... if he is in fact actually working on it.

[Seldane]

Who's Fanzie?

[Joe Redifer]

http://pixelcraze.film-tech.net/crap/fonzie.jpg

[InternalPrimate]

http://pixelcraze.film-tech.net/crap/fonzie.jpg

:rofl:

[Seldane]

I believe the question was "who's Fanzie?"

This typo was, of course, intentional as an attempt to avoid responses like the one I got anyway.

[Joe Redifer]

We know of no "Fanzie".

[Zebbe]

No, but the women say I'm fancy.

[Elusive]

http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/5199/fyaddance7e8fj2.gif

I can't dancy :(

[Seldane]

Neither can that guy.

[Joe Redifer]

Elusive IS that guy.

[InternalPrimate]

I love where this thread has turned :)

A little update: Five more games came in today (Zillion, Fantasy Zone 2, Alex Kidd in Miracle World, Alex Kidd and the Lost Stars, and Sonic 2) and all work perfectly. Right now I'm really happy with the converter, and I'm thinking of writing something about it in the near future.

[Seldane]

Tototek rules.

[Joe Redifer]

Not if they don't provide a card port, they don't.

[David J.]

Well, almost all of the card games where rereleased on carts in europe and pretty damn common, but that doesn't help for 3D games.

[Joe Redifer]

I would just hope that the European cart versions were not optimized for PAL speed over there, otherwise they'd run at warp speed on our Genesis'. Out Run Europa runs at a blazing speed on my US Genesis, but probably runs at a sane speed in PAL-land.

[David J.]

I can tell you the PAL games I want, and own run A-OK on a US system. Sega farmed Outrun Europa to some third party devloper, so... I think that's why. I did play Outrun Europa via emulation and it wasn't that much slower in 50Hz.

I can tell you that Sega of Japan, or Japanese companies outsourced by Sega released a lot of the games released only in Europe, believe it or not, so that's why plenty of them run OK in 60Hz. :)

[Joe Redifer]

Oh I believe it. And yes, they run at 60Hz, but do they run faster than intended on a US system? I wonder if Ultima IV does. That one seems pretty fast to me as well.

[David J.]

I think Ulitma IV was devloped in Japan, as it has FM music!

It had to have been devloped in Japan... Some other games that have FM music, but where released only in USA or Europe where intended for release in Japan, but it never happened. I know Ramage and Outrun 3D where intended to be released in Japan, but the never released there in the end.

Ulitma IV is freeware on the PC, and I think there are programs to play it on the Mac or Linux. I downloaded it, and I have this program that allows me to play it via windows, plays pretty great. So you can easily compare if you want to.

[Joe Redifer]

Interesting. Ultima IV is a tad weird, but that is probably my unfamiliarity with computer games that are over 40 years old. I can't quite figure things out. The game came with so much literature that I didn't want to read any of it. It's like clicking a thread and you see a wall of text that requires you to scroll down 80 screens to read. You just don't want to even begin!

If Tototek doesn't want to include a card slot due to the cost or whatever, they could at least include a headphone jack to plug the 3D glasses into for 3D games, just like the Japanese Master System. Maybe Fonzie's new thingy will do this, if in fact he is doing something. And an FM chip on board the converter would be simply awesome (as long as it can be switched off).

[Zebbe]

Did the Japanese 3D Glasses use a headphone jack as the input? :?

Wouldn't the FM chip have to be bought/licensed from Yamaha?

[Seldane]

Why not just buy an official Master System converter?

[David J.]

Did the Japanese 3D Glasses use a headphone jack as the input? :?

Wouldn't the FM chip have to be bought/licensed from Yamaha?

There was no headphone jack on the Japanese SMS console. The card adaptor had a headphone like jack on it, but it wasn't for audio and it was built in the SMS console. The Japanese console didn't even need the card, just the glasses, and if you use a stereo splitter, you can hook up two glasses to any SMS console. :)

As for the FM chip, I think there are comptable chips, but the music quality varies from chip to chip.

[InternalPrimate]

Why not just buy an official Master System converter?

I own a Genesis 2 which doesn't exactly fit with the official Power Base Converter, it can be cut to fit the Genesis 2... but the Tototek Converter just seemed way more convenient. Card based games really never interested me, so that never really factored into my purchase. And while it's disappointing that it's incompatible with the 3D glasses, it was just a sacrifice I was willing to make.

[Joe Redifer]

The Japanese SMS uses a headphone jack, and that is exactly what it is... its just not used for audio. Of course technically I don't think it is called a "headphone jack", rather a 1/8" stereo jack.

[Zebbe]

There was no headphone jack on the Japanese SMS console. The card adaptor had a headphone like jack on it, but it wasn't for audio and it was built in the SMS console. The Japanese console didn't even need the card, just the glasses, and if you use a stereo splitter, you can hook up two glasses to any SMS console. :)

OK. So there are special Japanese 3D glasses? Are they ULTR@ R@RE? I'm thinking about buying a JP MS so I can enjoy the greatness of FM sound - if no converter/adaptor/whatever is created soon.

[David J.]

They just don't have the thingy that goes in the card slot, that's all. There are converters, one from SMS power, and one from Tototek... I have to say the Tototek one will work with most games. Here's what I posted on another forum:


Some work and some won't work. SMSPower sells a gender adaptor that uses the expansion slot on the back of the system. The games known not to work with the SMS Adaptor are:

Rastan (the code in the game expects the game to run from the cart slot, it happens while it's detecting the FM chip)
Outrun (doesn't boot)
Lord of the Sword (doesn't boot)
Fantasy Zone (very picky, sometimes a scrambled screen, but sometimes runs)
Wonderboy (he can't stop running, but it'll run fine with a flash cart oddly enough)

I think most all of those will work with the Tototek adaptor anyway, but it's pretty ugly looking. I know most of the roms are the same... it's probally an issue running from the expansion slot.

Games that will not work AT ALL, and will NEVER work with the original carts:

Rescue Mission: do not register inputs.
American Pro Football: crash with FM unit
Walter Payton Football: crash with FM unit
Wanted: crash with FM unit

Even with the Tototek adaptor they won't work, which uses the cart slot, not the SMSpower adaptor which uses the expansion slot.

Also, you can't play Gangster Town in 2 player mode, but since most people don't know it has a two player mode... it isn't a big deal. There is no region switch known yet - the Japanese SMS has a different chip than the US/EU systems. I just gathered that info from messageboards, so now you know. :)

[Joe Redifer]

Rescue Mission works fine on my PBC and so does Gangster Town in two player mode. PBC rules all.

[David J.]

I didn't make it clear, but that was about the adaptors for the Japanese Sega Master System.

[Seldane]

Why is it called Power Base Converter in NA? Why not a logical name? Kind of like Master System converter.

[Joe Redifer]

Here's the deal with Sega's SMS days:

The system was called the "Power Base" by Sega's awesome marketing department. Sega released two versions of the console (like MS and Sony are stupidly doing). The Sega Base System came with a Power Base, 2 controllers, a Hang-On/Astro Warrior cartridge (complete with real box), RF switch, composite video cables and a power supply. The Sega Master System came with all of that plus a Light Phaser and Hang-On/Safari Hunt instead of the Astro Warrior combo cart. It also cost $20 more I think. What they referred to as the Power Base had "Master System" printed on it in both packages. This console preceded the Japanese Master System.

[Seldane]

Thanks for the interesting info.

As for console redesigns, well they are pretty logical. They are cheaper to manufacture, and Microsoft and Sony are not alone. Remember these systems?

Atari 2600 Jr
Master System 2
Mega Drive 2
Mega-CD 2
Turbo Duo / PC Engine Duo/R/RX
NES 2 (toploader)
Game Boy Pocket
SNES 2 (Jr)
PS-"one"
Game Boy Advance SP
Game Boy Micro
PS-"two"
N-Gage QD
NDS Lite

Etc.

[InternalPrimate]

I could be waaaaay off on this, but I think he's referring to Sony and Microsoft launching two different packages at the same time. Which is not the same as console redesigns.

Again, maybe I misinterpreted Joe's comment. I really know very little about the history of the Master System.

[Seldane]

Oops, I misunderstood. Sorry about that.

[Joe Redifer]

Yeah, at the same time. Almost every company eventually redesigns their console it seems.