Blast Processing

[hadjiquest]

Which are the games on the Sega Genesis that fully utilise Blast Processing?

[StealthNinjaScyther]

Uh, any game that can push a lot of sprites and or special effects(scaling, rotation, etc.) without any significant slowdown. It's really hard to say since blast processing isn't a hardware feature, it's just the clock speed. You might as well ask which games have the best graphics.

Oh, and as for that list, I don't feel like writing one up now. :P

[crazyjoedavola]

I used to argue that blast processing was a marketing gimmick, but I would suggest that any game that moves fast, like Sonic, is what Sega would claim is Blast Processing. Still think it was all just an advertising tool though since that term isn't really used in regular computing language.

[GeckoYamori]

I think it was just a feature which ignored off-screen objects for increase in performance.

[Electroman]

Which are the games on the Sega Genesis that fully utilise Blast Processing?

None. It was very simply a marketing strategy. Sega of America knew the SNES was putting the heat under their aging Genesis hardware with their solid Nintendo titles, quality RPG's, and Mode 7 effects while the best the Genesis could do (and we all love it) is move sprites around really fast and have countless amounts of paralax effects. Sega thought this blast processing up in conjunction to how fast Sonic 's screens scrolled (due to efficient programming) and thunk it all up.

As a director of marketing said once in a meeting where I work, "The marketing department is "The headlights of the company".

Fortunately for Sega, people bought it.

[j_factor]

Are you serious? Quality RPGs? The SNES didn't see a significant number of quality RPGs until much later in its lifespan. Earlier on it had like two.

I also find the phrase "aging Genesis hardware" a bit peculiar when discussing the SNES. SNES uses the hoary old 65816 as its main processor; the 65816 was outdated even before Genesis launched. It would have been feasible to use the 68020, which would've blown Genesis out of the water. But Nintendo chose instead to go with an 80s throwback, for reasons unknown to me. All SNES has going for it are better video and Mode 7.

[Mel]

Are you serious? Quality RPGs? The SNES didn't see a significant number of quality RPGs until much later in its lifespan. Earlier on it had like two.

I also find the phrase "aging Genesis hardware" a bit peculiar when discussing the SNES. SNES uses the hoary old 65816 as its main processor; the 65816 was outdated even before Genesis launched. It would have been feasible to use the 68020, which would've blown Genesis out of the water. But Nintendo chose instead to go with an 80s throwback, for reasons unknown to me. All SNES has going for it are better video and Mode 7.

I agree. I beleive the blast processing strategy was used to off-set the snes release, which had a greater color palette, but was much slower than the genesis in regards to cpu.

So it was speed vs color variety.

[Electroman]

By 1991, the Genesis hardware was already 3 years old. That's why I called it "aging hardware". The public, being graphic whores they are saw all the pretty colors the SNES could do, and quickly flocked to it. Sega had to think of something. The one thing that the Genesis could do (and still could) is pump out sprites.

Believe me, I'm a Sega fan to the core but having worked at a software store from '91 through 1996, I saw and heard everything to this effect.

SNES had a horrible start, IMO with most of its games running in slow motion and such but I do still count the SNES hardware to be at most, a 1/2 a generation ahead of the Genesis hardware.

[GeckoYamori]

The difference in colour amount was never that apparent anyway. If you have any artistic sense whatsoever you'd know it's not good with 256 different colors cluttered over the screen, and you'd end up using a selected theme of colours which severly drags down the notable difference between 64 and 256 colours. That, and both consoles could only have a max of 16 colours on a single sprite.

[Electroman]

The difference in colour amount was never that apparent anyway. If you have any artistic sense whatsoever you'd know it's not good with 256 different colors cluttered over the screen, and you'd end up using a selected theme of colours which severly drags down the notable difference between 64 and 256 colours. That, and both consoles could only have a max of 16 colours on a single sprite.

True this. Artistic ability > raw color usage.

[j_factor]

And it wasn't hard to get around the color pallette. Genesis has some dedicated color memory (I believe it's the only console to do so), which is good for pallette swapping and some other tricks. It's also really not hard to put a red on top of a blue to make a purple and use all three colors, although it only actually "uses" two.

[Drixxel]

The colour limitations of the hardware were barely limitations at all in the hands of an able and creative developer, but you must admit that many Genesis games show palette weakness compared to SNES games, specifically multi-platform releases. A primary difference between the most noted weakness of the Genesis compared to that of the SNES is that the Genesis could more or less weasel its way colourful to compete, unlike the processor speed issues of the SNES where the Genesis had the clearcut advantage. I think we can more or less agree that the SNES dominates the Genesis in terms of audio, though. The good thing about hardware limitations is that they demand developer dexterity, and working within these kind of boundaries can make for the most inventive of software. Boundaries are something the modern gaming era lack, for the most part... PC gaming especially.

SNES RPGs really didn't pick up much steam in North America until '93 and beyond, but there were still a number of decent role-playing titles within a year of its launch (Drakkhen, Final Fantasy II, Final Fantasy Mystic Quest, Lagoon, Soul Blazer, Ultima: The False Prophet, Wizardy V, Ys III, Zelda III). Still.. other than FFII and Zelda III, this genre wasn't too popular, so I don't think the RPG library at the time did much for system sales and Genesis/SNES competition. Soul Blazer and Ys III rock, though.

[GeckoYamori]

think we can more or less agree that the SNES dominates the Genesis in terms of audio, though.

I wouldn't be so quick on jumping to that conclusion. Yuzo Koshiro's work for Streets of Rage owns anything I've ever heard on the SNES. Jesper Kyd's complex electronic scores were very cool from a technical perspective and let's not forget Technosoft's efforts in Thunder Force IV.

[Electroman]

I'd like to comment on the audio topic also.

I, as a lover of good audio effects hated the muffled sound of many of the Genesis's PCM/FM sounds. BUT... and this is especially common in 1st year releases where the audio was superior than later releases. Listen to the Capcom conversions, Ghostbusters, Rambo III, Altered Beast, etc. Clean, almost wavetable synthesis-like audio. Its like Sega had their best team(maybe their arcade teams) develop the first run games?

Then Yuzo came on board and blew us away with some high fidelity musics on various games.

Plus, the Genesis's bass abilities rivaled SNES's 6 ways from Sunday. I recall being very turned off on SNES's tinny and conservative sounds, especially in its first couple years.

COme to think of it, TG16's music's are also a bit tinny as well. Only the Genesis seemed to offer low-end acoustic fidelity.

Of course, the NEO GEO hardware blew all the consoles out of the water sonically.

[GeckoYamori]

The SPC chip had some sort of primitive filter, I think that might have contributed to the tinny sound. I don't like those early filters at all, it takes away all the crispness. Sounds much better without it even if it's a bit raw. Luckily you can disable it using emulators :P

[Drixxel]

I was thinking more along the lines of the average sound quality of SNES games vs. Genesis/MD, not necessarily the strength of the compositions. Yuzo obviously knew what the sound chip was capable of and worked his magic around that, but so many Genesis games that I've played suffer from the same bizarre instrument choices and poor sound quality. For instance, I was playing Chakan the other day through a decent sound system and it sounded like complete garbage. I do dig the bassy goodness of many Genesis sound effects, though. That thick rumble of gunfire in games like Thunder Force III is downright awesome.

[crazyjoedavola]

I love the Genny as much as the next guy, but I have to disagree on the audio topic when compared to the SNES. True, the Genesis did have some great audio and great music, but compare Actraiser or Super Star Wars to practically any Genesis game. Also try a side by side of Street Fighter II. In terms of audio, the SNES wins hands down.

This is really though like comparing apples and oranges as I understand the sound processors in both systems are quite different, but I might be wrong about that.

There is no doubt that, in the right hands, the Genesis made some beautiful music. I just didn't feel it was on par with what the SNES was capable of audio wise.

[j_factor]

I think we can more or less agree that the SNES dominates the Genesis in terms of audio, though.

For sound effects and samples, yes, but for music, hell no.


SNES RPGs really didn't pick up much steam in North America until '93 and beyond, but there were still a number of decent role-playing titles within a year of its launch (Drakkhen, Final Fantasy II, Final Fantasy Mystic Quest, Lagoon, Soul Blazer, Ultima: The False Prophet, Wizardy V, Ys III, Zelda III). Still.. other than FFII and Zelda III, this genre wasn't too popular, so I don't think the RPG library at the time did much for system sales and Genesis/SNES competition. Soul Blazer and Ys III rock, though.

Zelda came out in '93 so I wasn't really counting that. FF2, Ultima 6, and Soul Blazer are the only SNES RPG's from 1991-92 that I'd consider good. But my point wasn't even that SNES RPGs were bad or anything, it's just that as of around 1992, SNES didn't really have significantly more RPGs to its name than Genesis did.

Ys III indeed rocks, but not on SNES. Seriously, have you played the different versions?

[GeckoYamori]

Actraiser's music was orchestral where having samples were a natural preference. That didn't stop Yuzo from composing a score almost on par with it though, Story of Thor may not sound very real but the fat horns, arrangement and superb dynamics more than make up for it.

The Yamaha chip was not primarly meant for such genres that are so sample-reliant, but it had a huge advantage in other areas. Yuzo Koshiro knew both soundchips very well, yet Super Adventure Island's dance soundtrack couldn't match up the the quality of SoR.

[Drixxel]

I'm talking average audio quality here, not the comparative musical value of a console's combined works versus another. Music is entirely personal preference, so to say that one console beats the other in terms of its number of pleasing melodies is completely a subjective thing. I made a point to avoid saying something like, "Oh ho ho, SNES composers far superior to Genesis ones, even though many wrote works for both consoles! Universe collapsing due to massive contradiction!?!" even though odds are if I were to count out my favourite soundtracks for each console, one would come out ahead. Even if we took a universal poll to decide once and for all which console was overall better, the results of a popularity contest such as that would be seen as pointless by those that really had an opinion.

Yuzo was one talented dude in that he recognized the strengths of the sound chips and built his scores around that, and in those sorts of cases, the Genesis can pump out some groovy tunes indeed. Actraiser and SoR2... two soundtracks that take ripe advantage of their respective console's sound chip. Does it really matter which is 'better'?

Hell, even debating audio quality is ultimately pointless, because after all vinyl still has its loyal fans in this age of compact discs. It's as much about the character of the sound as the sound itself.

...and j_factor, I'm confident that Zelda III was born unto North America in '92 (even bought it that year, I do recall), not that it matters in the least as Sonic and Mario were driving system sales at that time, not the meanderings of a packrat Hyrulian. And apparantly against all reason, I genuinely dig SNES Ys III in face of the other versions available. Perhaps I should have that looked at by a medical professional.

[danielscheil]

think we can more or less agree that the SNES dominates the Genesis in terms of audio, though.

I wouldn't be so quick on jumping to that conclusion. Yuzo Koshiro's work for Streets of Rage owns anything I've ever heard on the SNES. Jesper Kyd's complex electronic scores were very cool from a technical perspective and let's not forget Technosoft's efforts in Thunder Force IV.

Oh yes ! that's the greatest intro music on every 16 bit console of the world !
just for this game i have buyed two Genesis Speekers !
much better than Korn or Slipknot ! :D

[GeckoYamori]

I'm talking average audio quality here, not the comparative musical value of a console's combined works versus another

Even from an average viewpoint there wasn't much of a difference between the two, most stuff I've heard on the SNES has also been crap. There seems to have been some standard sample library a lot of people used which was just awful. The good composers/audio engineers took the strengths of each chip and made them shine in their own way. Some knew one chip a lot better than the other, for example Rock n' Roll Racing sounded much better on the SNES and was damn near unlistenable on the MD, and Takara's SNK conversions usually ended up sounding better on the MD (Fatal Fury 1 and 2 are good examples).

[lordofduct]

...and j_factor, I'm confident that Zelda III was born unto North America in '92 (even bought it that year, I do recall), not that it matters in the least as Sonic and Mario were driving system sales at that time, not the meanderings of a packrat Hyrulian. And apparantly against all reason, I genuinely dig SNES Ys III in face of the other versions available. Perhaps I should have that looked at by a medical professional.

Yes, you are right... It was released in time for the 92' Christmas season. Coming out in September of 1992 here in the US of A... unless J_factor is in Europe, not sure when it came out there.

As for my opinion on sound. Sound chip whatever, its kinda like the color palette issue. In the right hands they both could do wonderful things, in the wrong hands it could create the most awful thing. Even on the SNES the fact they had a good sound chip (had better specs) and more colors was kinda hurtful sometimes. Colors would bleed, people would push the sound chip to far making samples sound crappy.

It's all in the hands of the developer... SoR is a good example for sound. But how about a WELL KNOWN all arounder for the genny.

Sonic 3 and Knuckles! It had amazing varying colors, great sound, awesome speed... sorry but the amount of force, graphical beauty, length of game, depth of story (for platformer), and just god damn ass kickingness, this game pushed the hardware far and showed that the genny could do AMAZING things just as beautiful as any SNES game I played including in house powerhouses like mario... (although Super Mario World 2, Yoshi's island was god damn amazing graphically and I don't see that occuring on the genny, yet doesn't that use a chip? Sorry, but extra chip does not count in my book... thats why Virtua Racing is never used in crediting the genny IMO!)

[Drixxel]

Yoshi's Island uses the ol' Super FX2 chip for its extensive scaling and rotation, which was nicknamed 'morphmation' for the zany ways the bosses would mutate and shift. Perhaps the chip makes the game an unfair choice for strict console-strength comparisons, but Yoshi's Island is still beautiful even in scenes free of morphmation. One of the best games ever, in my opinion.

Sonic 3 & Knuckles is definately a crowning achievement in Genesis everything. The game has it all, and flaunts it confidently.

[Joe Redifer]

This is an old thread, so sorry for dragging it up, but I am a new member and must add my exciting comments and perspective!

1. BLAST PROCESSING:
Ishido: The Way of the Stones and Zany Golf are the only games that use Blast Processing. Add them to your Genesis lineup today! Oh wait... :)

2. Genesis vs SNES - GRAPHICS:
Obviously the SNES had a larger palette than the Genesis and it showed in many games, but the difference between the two systems graphically wasn't really that great. Take the Game Gear for example. It had a palette 4,096 colors with the ability to put 32 onscreen at any one time. However the games RARELY looked any better than standard Master System games at all, and the Master System had a total palette of 64 colors with 16 onscreen at any one time. More colors do not necessarily make better graphics. I felt the SNES overused the mosaic "feature" which took the image and lowered the resolution, creating a nastified "blocky" effect (Super Mario World used this when you entered any new level). Mode 7 was always pretty blocky as well.

3. Genesis vs SNES - SOUND:
Yes, the SNES could handle samples much better than the Genesis. I think the sample rate of the Genesis PCM channel is limited to 22050Hz, 8-bit while the SNES PCM could do 32000Hz, 16-bit (not entirely sure on thse specs). The SNES had 8 PCM channels and the Genesis had 1 PCM channel. But the Genesis also had 6 FM channels and 3 PSG channels. The SNES was limited to its 8 PCM channels and it's god damned reverb filter. Speaking of that I felt the SNES audio was often destroyed by that damned overused reverb. Every sound seemed to use it to some extent. It was good in the underground themes in Super Mario World and whatnot, and scenarios like that are where it's use should have been limited to. People come in and hear Vectorman or any standard EA game and assume the Genesis audio is crap. They are not interested in playing Thunderforce or other games that are good. God I hate people.

The Neo Geo uses the same sound setup as the Genesis, but with more channels and memory. It has the same Z80 running the sound suite as the Genesis does, just many more PCM channels and the luxury of space to make the samples sound fantastic. The Neo Geo is a Genesis on stereoids in every way (it's not 24-bit, by the way).

4. Genesis vs SNES - SPEED
The Genesis often had smoother playability due to its blazingly fast CPU. Well, blazingly fast for a consumer product designed at a low cost in 1988, anyway. But for a system that came out in 1991, the SNES sure was a slow monkey.

5. Genesis vs SNES - CONTROLLER
I'll take a Sega 6-button pad (original) over the SNES pad anyday. 6 buttons on the front? Hell yeah! The only thing the Sega 6-button lacked was two shoulder buttons. I don't give a rat's ass about a select button.

[16bitter]

I love the Genesis as much as the next guy here, but to pretend it could compete with the SNES on audio is laughable. That SNES sound chip was and frankly IS amazing.

Likewise, the Genesis was often hurting badly on the color palette issue next to the SNES. I can't think of many games where you'd think the SNES was damaged graphically because of a limited color palette, but I can think of many that fall into this category on Genesis.

Admitting this does not mean the Genesis was anything other than a stellar system, that is to this day one of the best consoles ever put to market. It's simply honest to admit the Genesis trailed the SNES in certain presentation areas.

And why wouldn't it? It was over two years older than the grey box -- it was more unforgivable that the SNES trailed the Genesis in certain areas. The two combined for arguably the greatest era of gaming yet seen, and certainly the top system war.

[16bitter]

Yoshi's Island uses the ol' Super FX2 chip for its extensive scaling and rotation, which was nicknamed 'morphmation' for the zany ways the bosses would mutate and shift. Perhaps the chip makes the game an unfair choice for strict console-strength comparisons, but Yoshi's Island is still beautiful even in scenes free of morphmation. One of the best games ever, in my opinion.

Sonic 3 & Knuckles is definately a crowning achievement in Genesis everything. The game has it all, and flaunts it confidently.

How did S&K do saleswise? There was so much hype for DKC, and such an unfocused cacophony from Sega that as far as the market it seemed to get lost in the shuffle.

[Joe Redifer]

For all intents and purposes, I agree. But my point is that the Genesis did not have BAD graphics or sound, even when compared to the SNES. The SNES had a ton of colors, but the games didn't look super-amazing or hundreds of times better than the Genesis. Hell, the SNES usually ran in a lower resolution than the Genesis (256 horizontal pixels compared to the Genesis' 320 pixels). Actually I've never seent he SNES run in high resolution interlaced mode. Both were good systems. The Genesis was great and should be enjoyed instead of people bitching about the colors, which really wasn't THAT much of a detriment. Same goes with the sound.

[16bitter]

I wasn't specifically disagreeing with you. In fact, I agree with most of what you said -- with one caveat being that there were some games that were pretty abysmal on looks and sound because of those aforementioned issues. Especially next to the SNES version of that same game.

As far as devs that mistreated the Genesis on presentation, I'd put Capcom up there -- though I'm no expert on just how much better they could have done.

Other times there were cross-platform releases that looked and played better than the SNES version -- somehow, for instance, the Genny's color palette suited Earthworm Jim far more. It's always felt like a game that belonged with the Genesis and not the SNES. Happened quite a few times.

[Joe Redifer]

I agree about the Capcom games. Although I do like many of Capcom's Genesis efforts, it was obvious to me that they didn't know the system very well and weren't very ambitious about learning it. I have always wondered how Street Fighter 2 would have been had Sega done the reprogramming like they did on Ghouls 'n Ghosts, Strider, etc.

As for multiplatform releases, yeah the Genesis version usually looked worse. I attribute that to a company trying to get two versions of the same game out in the same amount of time. The Genesis versions could have been better if they tried harder, but even if they did I imagine they'd still look a little bit drab. Some of the multiplatform efforts just seemed lazy to me.

[j_factor]

As for multiplatform releases, yeah the Genesis version usually looked worse. I attribute that to a company trying to get two versions of the same game out in the same amount of time. The Genesis versions could have been better if they tried harder, but even if they did I imagine they'd still look a little bit drab. Some of the multiplatform efforts just seemed lazy to me.

It really depends on the game. Many games looked worse on Genesis (especially Koei's games), many looked worse on SNES (especially action games). The SNES version of Flashback is on a cart 4 megs bigger than the Genesis version, and yet the cutscenes in the SNES version must have about half as many frames. Much like with the Genesis version of Super Street Fighter II, where those extra megs went remains a mystery. :P

[GeckoYamori]

Comparing ports is a horrible, horrible way of telling which system was better. It's the same shit every generation... The most important aspect is and will always be how good developers are at using the capabilities of the systems. Xbox was had much superior hardware to the aged PS2, so that would in theory mean much better looking games. But was it really like that in the end? We get a load of crap and a handful of gems, like any other platform. And compare the PS2 port of Splinter Cell to, say, Transformers or Gran Turismo 4.
The latter two look much, much better because they were made with the particular hardware in mind. It's the same with games like Thunder Force IV or Alien Soldier. And now history is repeating itself with the whole Xbox360 Vs. PS3 deal.

[Obviously]

I guess the point that some people here are trying to make is that the SNES could theoretically produce a game with better graphics and better sound if the two systems were pushed to their absolute limits. Looking at existing games and soundtracks won't really prove anything definative because developers have made magic happen on both systems. You'd need to have a developer with equal knowledge of both systems program the same exact game using all the power that two two systems can muster.

If you look at system specs alone and NOT and what the developers did with them the SNES is hypothetically capable of better sound and graphics, as it should since it's newer. The only thing it didn't have going for it was the inexcusably archaic processor.

This is not saying the SNES is better or worse than the Genesis as this is looking at them both from a hardware standpoint alone, not putting software into the consideration at all.

[Elusive]

Someone please pull out sales figures from 1991-1994 regarding the Mega Drive and Super NES to make this nerd war complete, please XD


Comparing ports is a horrible, horrible way of telling which system was better. It's the same shit every generation... The most important aspect is and will always be how good developers are at using the capabilities of the systems. Xbox was had much superior hardware to the aged PS2, so that would in theory mean much better looking games. But was it really like that in the end? We get a load of crap and a handful of gems, like any other platform. And compare the PS2 port of Splinter Cell to, say, Transformers or Gran Turismo 4.
The latter two look much, much better because they were made with the particular hardware in mind. It's the same with games like Thunder Force IV or Alien Soldier. And now history is repeating itself with the whole Xbox360 Vs. PS3 deal.

Thank you. Too many people forget that variety is the spice of life - we've got fantastic games on each and every system. 'NINTENDO VS SEGA SHOWDOWN' is moot (c'mon, Sonic on the GBA & GC) and needs to be left in the playground. History repeating itself is because people are stupid.

So, how's about we all stop picking about each console's individual ups and downs and enjoy the games for what they are? Blast Processing was a term designed to describe what the Sega console was capable of to impressionable teenagers, the Super NES could display more colours onscreen at once. So what? =P

[ary incorparated]

The hardware in the megadrive is is like a bir shelved,Sound on snes better,but sega had better composers,At least i tought Genesis had superior sound,Graphics also one thats not truly right.Simple by saying counting sales,thats not important for a HC gamer,Sales have been made but dont made out the technical Performance and the games.Sales is a discussion for compenies.BTW ever noticed,you have nothing in graphics if you use Fmv graphics(DK country KI )Btw like Fighting games or Action games werent that explosive on the snes,like 1 the genesis was faster,Had more animations,Sound is more like a personal prefference ,both Sound carts do stuff of their own,Like MD has guitar sound more and snes orchestral.etc,colors,ever played vectorman you notice that it has just as much colors as DK country but more animation,whil more snes games just show big Photo sprites because it has a lack of animation compared to but like genesis has more going on in screen and neglects slowdown or lesser speed,md has the speed and animation while snes had the graphics,in the end and in cassuality theyre both the same,its just what genre of games you want like if you like Platformers and RPG snes is youre thing,if you like atitudive games and more action games,Genesis is youre thing,Sonic 2 looks better colourd in then mario world while DK blows much genesis titels away,whil Gunstar has supperb animation aggiant it to offerant the battle continues on and on and on,Its like a personal prefferce and you cant talk about technical facts becuase the one has it while the other one is pushing to use it,it a whole twisted story that and with bowl of fruit.their both great,like comparring peaches to bananas both both taste great if you ask me ,But Like apparently i like Peaches more end then bananas.just diffrent kind of genres and taste,ectually there was no competition exept in sales(which isnt importend) like people can like saturn more then psx,but thats not a very close call,since genesis and snes are,lets call them even.End o line Right.Jsut talk about like why you like the genesis instead of comparring.

[16bitter]

...and j_factor, I'm confident that Zelda III was born unto North America in '92 (even bought it that year, I do recall), not that it matters in the least as Sonic and Mario were driving system sales at that time, not the meanderings of a packrat Hyrulian. And apparantly against all reason, I genuinely dig SNES Ys III in face of the other versions available. Perhaps I should have that looked at by a medical professional.

Yes, you are right... It was released in time for the 92' Christmas season. Coming out in September of 1992 here in the US of A... unless J_factor is in Europe, not sure when it came out there.

Actually, LttP was released in the spring of 92.

[16bitter]

Someone please pull out sales figures from 1991-1994 regarding the Mega Drive and Super NES to make this nerd war complete, please XD

You want the ultimate nerd site? Go here: http://www.gamepilgrimage.com/index.htm

Guy's still trying to convince people that the Genesis version of MKII is difficult to distinguish from its (far superior) SNES counterpart, or that the talk of the Saturn's hardware deficiencies are all "lies".

At the same time, it's kind of a fun site.

[Drixxel]

The dude has certainly put a lot of work into that site.. but yeah, through many of his efforts to rally against the evils of "popular console bias" (specifically with the Genesis, Saturn and hilariously even the 32X), he's mostly demonstrating his loyal cupping of Sega's balls, not that he doesn't bring up some valid points.

..and those Genesis vs. SNES comparison shots are kinda groovy.

[luvdoctor]

The Neo Geo uses the same sound setup as the Genesis, but with more channels and memory. It has the same Z80 running the sound suite as the Genesis does, just many more PCM channels and the luxury of space to make the samples sound fantastic. The Neo Geo is a Genesis on stereoids in every way (it's not 24-bit, by the way).

This is a wickedly good pun!! (Was it meant that way?)

[willis]

I just played "Dinosaurs for Hire" and at the very start of the game one dinosaur says to your character a Blast Processing comment !

So it must be real..........................

[Mr Smith]

In Soviet Russia, processor blasts YOU !!

[Pure Gamerbilly]

I'd like to comment on the audio topic also.

I, as a lover of good audio effects hated the muffled sound of many of the Genesis's PCM/FM sounds. BUT... and this is especially common in 1st year releases where the audio was superior than later releases. Listen to the Capcom conversions, Ghostbusters, Rambo III, Altered Beast, etc. Clean, almost wavetable synthesis-like audio. Its like Sega had their best team(maybe their arcade teams) develop the first run games?

Then Yuzo came on board and blew us away with some high fidelity musics on various games.

Plus, the Genesis's bass abilities rivaled SNES's 6 ways from Sunday. I recall being very turned off on SNES's tinny and conservative sounds, especially in its first couple years.

COme to think of it, TG16's music's are also a bit tinny as well. Only the Genesis seemed to offer low-end acoustic fidelity.

Of course, the NEO GEO hardware blew all the consoles out of the water sonically.

Are you the same Electroman from N-G.com? If so this is Aaron D...

[Elusive]

This topic is quite the blast from the past.

[Ash]

The SNES's CPU is basically a 16-bit version of the NES's 6502. I think the only reason it was used was a botched attempt at backwards compatibility with the NES. I often wonder what a SNES with Blast Processing (68000) would've been like.

[j_factor]

The SNES's cpu is the same cpu that the Apple IIgs had -- it is backwards-compatible with the 6502 (which powered the old Apple II's). Backwards compatibility on the SNES was cut out at the last minute, reported to shave off about $30 from the MSRP; preproduction units had been shown in Japan with a switch for Famicom mode.

The only reason to ever use a 65816 was for 8-bit compatibility; otherwise, it was a crappy chip for the cost. SNES could've had a much better processor for the same price, had backwards-compatibility not been intended.

[RedComet]

The SNES's cpu is the same cpu that the Apple IIgs had -- it is backwards-compatible with the 6502 (which powered the old Apple II's). Backwards compatibility on the SNES was cut out at the last minute, reported to shave off about $30 from the MSRP; preproduction units had been shown in Japan with a switch for Famicom mode.


I've never heard of this before. Not that I doubt you, but do you have any proof? I wouldn't mind seeing how the preproduction units differed from the final. :)

[evildragon]

well it's just like how the old PlayStation used to be called PS, but we got the PSX (PlayStation Xperimental)..

The REAL PS had an SNES cartridge port on the back..

[Reg]

If it were't for blast processing, Sonic never would have been able to stop Dr. Robotnik and save his animal pals. :p

But seriously, like it was already mentioned earlier, it was a gimmick and one that obviously worked pretty well in Sega's favor. I still remember the comercial I saw for Sonic The Hedgehog back in '91. "Why can't he be more like that nice boy Mario?" :D This commercial has to be on the net somewhere.

[willis]

Yeah, that comercial is on this site..... go to the home page and click on media.

[Rusty Venture]

I've never heard of this before. Not that I doubt you, but do you have any proof? I wouldn't mind seeing how the preproduction units differed from the final. :)

There is a thread over on DP that had pictures of the pre-production SNES, I forget the thread title, but there are a few system pics along with a pic of Raccoon Mario in SMW.

This early model includes a switch to, well, switch between Famicom and Super Famicom mode.



I'd say that, had the SNES actually had a processor as powerful or more powerful than the one in the Genesis, I doubt we'd be here today discussing SEGA at all.

But it's current processor was placed in the system giving it a serious Achilles heel.

[TheGZeus]

I saw the pre-production pics once.
It seems that it was designed to interface with the New NES(the Snes-looking one).
The idea being they'd share the same A/V output(some kind of hyped up name was used. Engrish...).
I'm not 100% sure, as they were blurry, but they were designed to connect to each other.
The SNES had massive video power, but the sample rate on the sound chip and the fact it was (as I reacall) entirely sample-based causes aliasing that makes it more 'bleepy' and makes certain sounds, well, OFF sounding. Not quite right.
Sample looping has gotten better over time, but the SNES was great at alot of sounds, and not so great at others.
If there were more FM-type tone GENERATION(as opposed to manipulation) channels in addition the sound would have beaten the Genesis on all counts.

Also, if sega had waited 1-2 years for the SCD's release and added colors with it(and perhaps made the sprite transform commands easier...I hear it's not well implemented) no one would have been talking about the SNES.

If it wasn't for the immensely complicated architecture, the 32X CD setup's kind of kick-ass. Well, complicated and lacking additional hardware sprites/collision/BG...

[j_factor]

I've never heard of this before. Not that I doubt you, but do you have any proof? I wouldn't mind seeing how the preproduction units differed from the final. :)

I don't have anything handy, but it's been stated in several print magazines and referred to in several interviews of the past. It's possible that such a preproduction unit doesn't really exist, and maybe only a mock-up was shown once, but I am 100% certain that backwards compatibility was part of the design of the Super Famicom until very near its final design.

A lot of people nowadays think that backwards compatibility was never expected until PS2, but in fact, it's been an issue since the Atari 5200, with many disappointed that it couldn't play VCS games. A lot of articles and letters in magazines leading up to the SNES launch deal with the subject of its inability to play NES games.

[Joe Redifer]

I have heard also that backwards compatibility was part of the original Saturn design. The key word is *part* and it really never made it very far, but it still does retain the 68000. How true this is is beyond me.

[j_factor]

Backwards compatibility made it pretty far in the Saturn design, actually.

Theoretically, with the final Saturn design it still would've been possible for them to make a Power Base Converter style unit. The Saturn is made to check the cart slot first, so if the cartridge accessed the 68000 and had the Genesis BIOS on it... it would've needed a Z80 on-board though.

[TheGZeus]

Would it be hard to emulate the Z80 commands?

Also, it may have been backwards compatible before the PS competition changes('3D' another SH2...) were added.
That system would have kicked ass.

[Reg]

Yeah, that comercial is on this site..... go to the home page and click on media.

Thanks for the info. I must have watched that commercial three times. What I remembered most about that commercial, even after all these years is when Sonic sped off and that lady was like "LITTLE BRAT!!" :D :D :p

[David J.]

Blast processing is real!111 Explain this then:

http://ourworld.cs.com/airbikecop/blastprocessing.mp3

Hmmm.....

[Gentlegamer]

The SNES's CPU is basically a 16-bit version of the NES's 6502. I think the only reason it was used was a botched attempt at backwards compatibility with the NES. I often wonder what a SNES with Blast Processing (68000) would've been like.Or backwards compatibility for that matter.

[Mendicant]

...Oh... I always figured it'd look something like this. XD

http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/4990/snesbpbcbb6.gif

[Rusty Venture]

I know what it wouldn't look like

The processor struggling to do Mario+Yoshi underwater being followed by 3 fish.

Even my GF saw it and was like "What is wrong with that thing?"


But "Turtles in Time" is still the best damn Turtles game ported to a home console.

[Gentlegamer]

...Oh... I always figured it'd look something like this. XD

http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/4990/snesbpbcbb6.gifThere's actually a hacked Sonic rom out there that has Mario in it . . . :p

[Black_Tiger]

I still remember reading interviews around the time Sonic 2 came out, with people who supposedly work on the game, explaining what Blast Processing was.

It was described in more than one interview as simply pushing the Genesis to the limit.

So any game with slowdown, Genesis or otherwise, whether its a well programmed game or not, is exercising Blast Processing.




I wouldn't be so quick on jumping to that conclusion. Yuzo Koshiro's work for Streets of Rage owns anything I've ever heard on the SNES. Jesper Kyd's complex electronic scores were very cool from a technical perspective and let's not forget Technosoft's efforts in Thunder Force IV.

I guess you haven't played Super Adventure Island huh? ;)

[TheGZeus]

Well, slowdown can also occur with poor programming.
I think what he meant by 'pushing to the limit' was actually getting the most possible performance possible from the system.

[Black_Tiger]

Well, slowdown can also occur with poor programming.
I think what he meant by 'pushing to the limit' was actually getting the most possible performance possible from the system.

Poor programming can still cripple a console just as good as uber programming.

There are no real limits to any console anyways, its only as good as the developer.

So many times, particularly early on in a console's lifespan, I've heard designers brag about how they pushed a system to its limit. Like that smug bastard in charge of Dark Savior, in a GameFan interview.

I guess Grandia and Shining Force III are really 38-bit quality super blast processed games. ;)

[Mendicant]

HYPER blast processed. "Super" was more... Nintendo.


There's actually a hacked Sonic rom out there that has Mario in it . . . :p
Actually, there's also a hacked mario rom with Sonic in it. I think it's called Sonic 6 or something. Basically a half-assed attempt at replacing Mario's sprites with Sonic's, and getting the whole thing to run on the Genesis.