Side by Side: Doom (32X vs. Saturn)

[Melf]

Sometimes, you really want to like a game, but it does everything in its power to keep that from happening. Case in point: Doom, a game released on about a million systems, arrived on two different Sega consoles in as many years. The problem is that both of them were well... less than what was expected. In fact, we don't know which one is worse, so we shackled staff writer Nick Gibson to a desk and made him play them both extensively. After much suffering and even more caffeine, he's given us his results. Read our Side by Side comparison (http://www.sega-16.com/2007/05/side-by-side-doom-32x-vs-saturn/) and see which Doom is the less potent of two poisons.

[evildragon]

while the comparision is great, this is not the Saturn screenshot.. That's a PC/Mac screenshot with the DoomsDay engine, with loaded polygonal models (as seen by the shotgun, and the fireball with the halo effect).. (i got that one on all my comps)..

http://www.sega-16.com/Features/Side%20by%20Side/Doom/Comparison%201.gif

[Joe Redifer]

I've always hated the primitive music in Doom games. It is awful. Some of the worst ever, and that includes the PC versions and the others that imitate its music. It's more primitive-sounding than NES music. I can't believe people actually like it. Perhaps only the mentally handicapped enjoy it? Even though Doom is one of the worst games made for any platform, I'd take it with ambient sounds over amateur-MIDI anyday.

[Rusty Venture]

I've come to dislike Doom on any platform anymore.

PC/MAC/32X/SNES/whatever....ugh. Vague levels are boring. I'm on a Marine base/facility....why aren't I fighting through a hanger or the crew living quarters?

Best early-FPS level I ever played was a fan-made Duke3D level that took place on a moonbase (called Moonbase2 I believe). Hallways, crew quarters, labs...actual locations.

[Mr Smith]

Sega-16 comparing two 32-bit games, whatever next?

[GeckoYamori]

I was playing the 32X Doom a few days ago, then I switched over to the zDoom sourceport with modern mouse support and a bunch of other things. The feeling of relief was pretty much the equivalent of taking a shit after holding it in for 6 hours.

[djtwok]

I like the Original Midi Music, but do more like the Saturn/Psx Version Music.

[Melf]

while the comparision is great, this is not the Saturn screenshot.. That's a PC/Mac screenshot with the DoomsDay engine, with loaded polygonal models (as seen by the shotgun, and the fireball with the halo effect).. (i got that one on all my comps)..

Shit, I thought it was a Saturn shot. This game really pissed me off, since neither the iso or the original CD is compatible with any of the Saturn emulators out there. Getting screen shots was a major pain in the ass.

I'm just going to take one off a scan of the box and to hell with it.

[Zebbe]

Melf: But you can't trust box screens either! Just look at Super Street Fighter 2: The New Challengers :D.

Genesis Knight: It was a nice read, but wouldn't a comparison with the SNES version have been more appropiate? It has a Super FX-chip to do it, the Genny has the 32X to do it, both are cartridges and released close to each other.

The 32X music track is a rip-off of Metallica's Master of Puppets by the way. (I hope everyone already knew that)

[108 Stars]

Melf: But you can't trust box screens either! Just look at Super Street Fighter 2: The New Challengers :D.

Or Samurai Shodown CD...there´s a screenshot of Earthquake on the back. Unfortunately, Earthquake was cut out of the Sega-versions.

[kevinski]

I agree that it would've made more sense to compare the 32X and SNES versions. As for purchasing the Japanese version of Saturn DOOM, though, I've been looking for it for a long time on eBay, and I've never once seen it listed. It's a shame, too, because I'd really like to own it.

[Genesis Knight]

There were two main reasons I did a 32X vs. Saturn matchup.

- I own actual copies of both games, and I don't like doing reviews/articles on stuff I've never physically played.
- There is very little information other than reviews on the Saturn port, so I thought I'd help fill in that hole.

And a third would be that I simply wanted to do it this way. In the end I think they both had the necessary advantages and disadvantages that made a comparison interesting.

BTW, Gecko, where do you get the Doom.wad for zDoom? I can find custom-made ones, yeah, but how can you call it playing Doom unless you have the official WAD?

[capi1010]

I like the 32x vs Saturn matchup, especially seeing that the 32X won. I never played the Saturn version. The 32X version kept me busy when I first bought it, I was just pissed when I beat it and there was no ending (just credits), I thought I did something wrong.

[16-bit pwnage]

Great article, I really like these console comparisons between games. Next you should do one on the Saturn and 32x versions of Mortal Kombat II.

[Arjak]

Personally, I love Doom. I just thought I would get that out of the way. Wow. That article was hilarious! The idea, the humor, everything was great. Good job, Melf!

[InternalPrimate]

Good job, Melf!

Great job NICK! :D

[Melf]

Yeah, the thanks goes all to Nick. It's his great article.

I agree with the comparison between the 32X and the Saturn version over the SNES. Do we really need to establish a side by side comparison of those two to see which is better? It's kind of obvious, in my opinion.

The Saturn is a better comparison, since the 32X is supposedly a 32-bit accessory. It seems more like the Saturn in terms of horsepower than the SNES FX chip, which isn't even as powerful as the Sega SVP chip (which is weaker than the 32X).

[Arjak]

Right, shows how much I pay attention. Sorry, Nick!:daze:

[evildragon]

i think the ending IS in Doom 32X.. i faintly remember seeing it a couple years ago.

thing is, when you use ANY form of cheating, the ending is disabled until the system is power cycled.. you literally have to play the game through, on a hard level, without cheating, THEN you get the ending..

Also worth mentioning, if it's not already done so, is the lack of the BFG9000 in Doom 32X! It's there, but you need a CHEAT just to get it.. WTF!

[kevinski]

Erm...Melf, if you're somehow implying that the 32X version is better than the SNES version, then you may want to rethink that. Honestly, the SNES version is quite playable and offers more levels (and they're generally more accurate to the original PC version's levels) than the 32X version. It also has a larger viewable screen area than the 32X version. I've actually played through the entire SNES version of DOOM. It really isn't all that bad.

[Joe Redifer]

Would it be "kosher" to have a 3 or 4-way Side by Side article? I'm not specifically referring to Doom, but any game that has multiple incarnations that could be compared.

[steve]

Hey y'all. My 1st post here. I had to sign up just to say I appreciated the disclaimer part of the comparison piece. Yes, the Japanese Doom version on Saturn is much better than the US and UK Saturn version. Why, I don't know, but it was released several months after the US version, which leads me to believe those months were used to tweak the frame rate.

At times it does slow down to 10 FPS... but on the whole it's somewhere between 15 and 20. I don't mean to sound cocky or bragging, NOT AT ALL, but I was pretty much the 1st one to spread the word on the JP Doom version being pretty damn good, esp. in comparison to the US/PAL version. I posted this in 2004 and was laughed and mocked by some. They asked me to give proof but at the time I had no means. In 2005 I discovered YouTube and those clips on the disclaimer... they belong to me. I'm AKA Kikko.

Anyway, I've since sold JP Doom. I just can't enjoy any other version these days other than the original PC classics. JP Saturn Doom is somewhat hard to find, but shouldn't fetch more than $15. Diehard Saturn fans might want to give it a shot, but everyone else you ain't missing much. A good do-over, but why bother?

Great site, BTW

[steve]

Erm...Melf, if you're somehow implying that the 32X version is better than the SNES version, then you may want to rethink that. Honestly, the SNES version is quite playable and offers more levels (and they're generally more accurate to the original PC version's levels) than the 32X version. It also has a larger viewable screen area than the 32X version. I've actually played through the entire SNES version of DOOM. It really isn't all that bad.


Oooh, the SNES version for me was way too choppy to be enjoyable. I disliked it back in '95 when it came out, gave it another shot last year and still hated it. Out of curiosity and I don't want to venture too far OT, but Kevinski what did you think of snes wolfenstein 3D? I loved that game, so I understand diff strokes for diff folks. I just couldn't get around Doom's choppiness and wall-stickiness on SNES. Nice red cartridge casing though

[evildragon]

Erm...Melf, if you're somehow implying that the 32X version is better than the SNES version, then you may want to rethink that. Honestly, the SNES version is quite playable and offers more levels (and they're generally more accurate to the original PC version's levels) than the 32X version. It also has a larger viewable screen area than the 32X version. I've actually played through the entire SNES version of DOOM. It really isn't all that bad.
um, i could never use the SNES version.. the controls totally sucked.. i think diagonals were a pain in the butt, not to mention, the floors and ceiling were missing their textures!

[j_factor]

Yeah, Doom SNES was horrible. The framerate, graphics, and controls were just a mess.

I don't know how I feel about this article. I have actually never played the US Saturn version of Doom. I was never a big fan of it, but back when Saturn was dying in the US and I was still looking for games to play, particularly looking at imports (this was 1998), I saw the Japanese version of Doom for very cheap at an import store, and decided to pick it up. I had never paid attention to how the Saturn version of Doom had been reviewed, but I assumed on the spot that given the platform (and the quality of other Saturn FPSes), it would have to be a perfectly good port. I was pleased that it included most of Doom and Doom 2, but ironically, at the time I was disappointed in the framerate, although it was playable. Then, after playing it, I read some reviews and wondered why they were so scathing. "Sure," I thought, "the framerate isn't as good as it should be, but it doesn't make the game unplayable." For years I wondered why everyone hated the Saturn version of Doom so much. :p

[Rusty Venture]

And here my most disliked memory of "Doom" was trying to get it to run on a PC with 4 Meg of RAM.

Even better was having 12 Meg of RAM and being told I don't have enough memory.

How I don't miss you DOS.

[CMA Death Adder]

Even better was having 12 Meg of RAM and being told I don't have enough memory.

QEMM to the rescue!!

[Zebbe]

Would it be "kosher" to have a 3 or 4-way Side by Side article? I'm not specifically referring to Doom, but any game that has multiple incarnations that could be compared.

Ah, cool, you're gonna do Thunder Force III and both SNES and arcade versions of Thunder Spirits? Very good! :D Remember though, emulators KILL slowdown.

[kevinski]

I've never played Wolfenstein 3D on SNES, but I've played the PC version and never really cared for that particular game. As for the SNES version of DOOM, though, you guys need to realize that it's on a 16-bit console, rather than a more powerful 32-bit add-on. The SNES version of the game has more enemies and more levels, and all of the weapons are available within the scope of the normal game. (In the 32X version, you can only access the BFG via cheat code.)

I'm completely aware of the fact that the SNES version didn't feature ceiling and floor textures, for the most part, but that isn't something that detracts from the overall playability of the game. The controls on the SNES version were quite good. Yes, there was a bit of wall sticking, but I didn't experience it very often, personally.

Just check out this video on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6-beSWGoMY

Sure, the game is at a lower resolution than most other versions of DOOM, but I can't say that there were any instances (aside from one or two instances of not being able to tell which floors would hurt me) that really affected my chances at taking on the enemies in-game.

[Zebbe]

That guy doesn't know that the Super FX-chip runs a 11 MEGA hertz, not regular hertz. And how to use "than" and "then". But since he says the SNES port is better, I still think it should have been included in this feature.

[Fonzie]

I think doom snes uses two super FX chip instead.
Anyway, the Snes game was recoded for snes while saturn & 32x were simple crappy *port* from the PC code (the 32x port could run 50% faster if properly ported and probably 150% faster if properly recoded).

[16-bit pwnage]

The music on the SNES Doom sounded much better than the 32x, but again SNES is also missing nearly all of the animation frames for the monsters (like 32x), and man does that port run slowly.

[Russman]

Heh, I gotta give some props to Genesis Knight for actually taking the time to compare two awful versions of Doom. That's dedication. Or just craziness. It was a good read though, and I learned some stuff about Saturn Doom in the process. I always read some horrible things about the Saturn game, but it's worse than I originally thought. Thanks for the comparisons!

If anyone is interested here's one of my favorite articles on a Doom comparison EGM did: http://www.ataritimes.com/article.php?showarticle=216

[kevinski]

I'm certainly not saying that the SNES port runs flawlessly, but it's an amazing port when you consider the hardware that it's on. And it only runs slowly in later levels. Much of the game runs quite respectably. My preferred means of playing DOOM is via nxDoom on Dreamcast, but the SNES version really isn't that bad. It's actually one of the more faithful ports as far as level layouts and feature sets go.

[evildragon]

I'm certainly not saying that the SNES port runs flawlessly, but it's an amazing port when you consider the hardware that it's on. And it only runs slowly in later levels. Much of the game runs quite respectably. My preferred means of playing DOOM is via nxDoom on Dreamcast, but the SNES version really isn't that bad. It's actually one of the more faithful ports as far as level layouts and feature sets go.
you do know that most of the game is played via the cartridge and not even the console, right? the cartridge has a processor of it's own on it, doing ALL of the rendering..

[kevinski]

I realize that. Nonetheless, it's still an impressive feat.

[Joe Redifer]

Ah, cool, you're gonna do Thunder Force III and both SNES and arcade versions of Thunder Spirits? Very good! :D Remember though, emulators KILL slowdown.
Still can't acquire Thunder Spirits for a reasonable amount.

[ThunderForce]

Still can't acquire Thunder Spirits for a reasonable amount.

Don't, it's a peice of shit.

[Melf]

Erm...Melf, if you're somehow implying that the 32X version is better than the SNES version, then you may want to rethink that.

Oh, I'm not implying that it's better at all. I was speaking strictly in technical terms.

That being said, there's no reason that comparison can't be done. Just because we used the 32X version here doesn't mean that it can't be used in an article with the SNES version.


Would it be "kosher" to have a 3 or 4-way Side by Side article? I'm not specifically referring to Doom, but any game that has multiple incarnations that could be compared.

I think we'd have to do them where they're applicable. Games like Wanderers from Ys would demand a 3-way comparison.

[GeckoYamori]

The 32x music is some of the laziest MIDI conversions I've ever heard. They didn't even bother making actual percussion sounds out of some of the non-tonal channels. The pitch-bending segments like the ones in E1M8 are horribly inaccurate, a common problem in format conversion.

The SNES music on the other hand is completely washed out in the dreaded tin-can reverb.

[ThunderForce]

I have a question, how's the PSX ports of Doom?

[system]

One thing I have to say for the Saturn version of Doom: the music's awesome, though IIRC the same score was used for the PSX version (which I haven't played). I've also been looking for the allegedly superior japanese version of Saturn Doom for what seems like an eternity, would be curious to see Doom on the Saturn done properly.

[Genesis Knight]

i think the ending IS in Doom 32X.. i faintly remember seeing it a couple years ago.

thing is, when you use ANY form of cheating, the ending is disabled until the system is power cycled.. you literally have to play the game through, on a hard level, without cheating, THEN you get the ending..

Also worth mentioning, if it's not already done so, is the lack of the BFG9000 in Doom 32X! It's there, but you need a CHEAT just to get it.. WTF!

The ending you're referring to is just like I mentioned in the article - a cast rundown of the enemies in the game. Check it out at VGmuseum. And yeah, I believe I also mentioned that the BFG is locked away.



I posted this in 2004 and was laughed and mocked by some. They asked me to give proof but at the time I had no means. In 2005 I discovered YouTube and those clips on the disclaimer... they belong to me. I'm AKA Kikko.

Hey, pleased to meetcha. I first learned about this by watching your videos, then had to find out myself. Good work - I just wish your videos were of a little higher quality.


If anyone is interested here's one of my favorite articles on a Doom comparison EGM did: http://www.ataritimes.com/article.php?showarticle=216

Hehe, I remember reading the original EGM 32X review and thinking WTF??? I don't know what the editors were smoking on that one. Looking back, EGM was quite lenient on all of the 32X games, and only really started the Sega-hating around the time of the Saturn.

And by the way, it's just craziness. Glad you liked the article.


Still can't acquire Thunder Spirits for a reasonable amount.

I agree with Fighter17 - but you probably know this already. Just for research purposes, right?


I have a question, how's the PSX ports of Doom?

Saturn Doom is a port of PSX Doom, so the games are nearly identical. The PSX version has better framerates and some colored lighting affects IIRC, but same music and everything.

I'm surprised y'all are having trouble finding JAP Doom for Saturn - when I checked there were a couple copies on eBay for...what...twenty bucks?

I'm glad everyone liked/read/disagreed with the article. Thanks for the compliments, guys.

[Joe Redifer]

I've rented Thunder Spirits before so I know how it is. But I just don't want to pay the above-$10 that I have seen it for. $1.99 or less would be perfect.

[Genesis Knight]

Right on, lol.

[kevinski]

Genesis Knight, I've been checking eBay on and off for quite some time, and I've never seen a Japanese copy of Saturn DOOM. I'm kinda curious as to how many copies were even made.

[Rusty Venture]

QEMM to the rescue!!

Don't get me started on that. I'm just thankful that Win95/98 fixed most of those goddamn DOS problems.

Doom/Duke3D would run without having to curse out DOS and deal with that pain in the ass memory management. Install, run setup, make shortcut, play. :D

[Arjak]

*Reads article on EGM*

:rofl:

What idiots!

[GeckoYamori]

The early-to-mid 90s was an embarrasing period for the maturing game journalism industry. The national Swedish Sega magazine gave the 32X port 100 in every field. Then there's that magazine which gave Donkey Kong Country 117/100.

[Joe Redifer]

Atari was well known for sending out unfinished preview ROM carts for magazines to review, and then they made the mags send them back because they couldn't afford to let the mags keep them. I doubt the game EGM reviewed was 100% complete. I'm not even sure why there is a page comparing 32X and Jaguar Dooms. They both look gawdawful, even for their time. Same goes for the PC version. If you want blocky graphics, play an Atari 2600.

[Rusty Venture]

*Reads article on EGM*

:rofl:

What idiots!

Don't even get me started on EGM. That magazine went to shit after they went SF2 crazy. Great for previews and codes, but that is pretty much it.

[David J.]

I bought a 32X for Doom, because I didn't have a PC at home. But I had a Sega Genesis... and when the 32X was announced, I went apeshit.

I played Doom 2 A LOT at my grandfathers house - he used to play computer games quite a bit. So when I saw the 32X, I lusted for one, and got one when they where $20, along with Doom for $20 also, and I was content for a few months until my family got a computer. And I bought Doom 2 for the computer within a week.

I sold Doom on the 32X a year or two ago along with some other crap games, but I repurchased it for the memories for a pittance.

[cheetah235]

doom is awesome and the midi music kicks ass
but you have to play on pc because pc was first system it came out for... not to mention you get online play that way

the reason why doom is so great is because its fun without much story you dont need story when you have that much violence









lol columbine

[Sen]

I completed (all episodes availeble) a lot of different version of Doom: PC, Saturn, psx, 32x, xbox (in doom 3 CE) and Xbox 360.

All are playable and great games in my opinion, a game ahead of it's time. Sadly the earlier console versies dropped the ball a bit. Not enough to destroy the fun for me, but it could and should have been much better.

[Mamba Tabac]

The 32X music track is a rip-off of Metallica's Master of Puppets by the way. (I hope everyone already knew that)

Actually, it's No Remorse.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvqC4NFqdBc&feature=related

If the Japanese version of Doom has a higher frame-rate, then my word the western version must be absolutely rubbish - I have the Japanese version and find it practically unplayable.

[Curryman123]

recently played the PS1 version of Doom and it's fukin amazing.

The sound effects, creepy music, weird lighting effects...add to the experience.

The Saturn version is very bad. Choppy framerate, no light effects and no sound echos.

Moreover, the episode 3 from Doom uses the city background from Doom 2, which makes no sense at all.

So, they couldn't replicate the fiery background of the PSX version?

[The Coop]

Of the two, the Saturn version comes out on top for me. More levels, all the weapons (no BFG 9000 in the 32X game? WTF?), atmospheric lighting so the stuff farther away gets darker, more monsters, most/all of the monster animations... even the sound comes out better on the Saturn version thanks to the botched attempt at "music" on the 32X version. And if you put the Saturn version on "mono", the sound's fixed (it'll be in mono, but it's better than how it is by default). The framerate bites on the Saturn version, but it's still playable much of the time (some big rooms really chug though).

So yeah, neither port is ideal, but you get more for your buck with the Saturn version, along with that great title screen song.



By the way, could you check your PMs if you haven't, Joe?

[Wesker]

So, they couldn't replicate the fiery background of the PSX version?

It probably would have lagged the game as hell, no pun intended.

I don't get why they didn't just used the original PC version skybox instead of doing what they did. Like you said, it makes no sense at all.

[Da_Shocker]

Heh, I gotta give some props to Genesis Knight for actually taking the time to compare two awful versions of Doom. That's dedication. Or just craziness. It was a good read though, and I learned some stuff about Saturn Doom in the process. I always read some horrible things about the Saturn game, but it's worse than I originally thought. Thanks for the comparisons!

If anyone is interested here's one of my favorite articles on a Doom comparison EGM did: http://www.ataritimes.com/article.php?showarticle=216

What a horrible review.

[sheath]

I find the 32X version of Doom more responsive than the Jaguar game, and it is generally faster in framerate as well. The advantage of having in game music can obviously be downplayed, but it seems relatively few people have played the game on the actual hardware today. That chart of Jaguar advantages is silly in my opinion, I'd say the games are roughly equal with trade offs. Seriously, dozens upon hundreds of SNES fans swear up and down that the SNES SFX-2 game looks and sounds wonderful, this is not an objective discussion.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

Honestly, I think the SNES version's music sounds like it's performed by a chorus of Congested Cows.