Preview: Beggar Prince

[Melf]

As you may already know, the Super Fighter Team is putting the final touches on Beggar Prince, the first new Genesis release in almost a decade. Sega-16 was fortunate to get all the tasty details about the localization process, as well as talk to project leader Brandon Cobb about the experience! Read all about it in our exclusive preview (http://www.sega-16.com/Feature-%20Beggar%20Prince%20Preview.htm)!

[Vicman]

Awesome work Melf, and I can't wait for the game! :D

[Vicman]

Melf, would you consider putting in some pics of Fengshen Yingjiechuan (Heroic Legend of Sealing Gods) in the article?

http://img368.imageshack.us/img368/1355/fengshen010ls.gifhttp://img396.imageshack.us/img396/2076/fengshen025vx.gif
http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/6913/fengshenyingjiechuanheroiclege.png

[David J.]

I'm looking forward to this, and I hope some new features are added to the Sega CD ver of Super Fighter, when it comes out, or some info leaks out.

Great article! Looking forward to this!

[Ro Nova]

Very cool! I like how Brandon Cobb says that the true fans are holding a real Sega controller that is connected to a real Sega Genesis system! Seems like they're pretty passionate about what they're doing. I don't really like RPG's but I think I'll get a copy to help support these guys. Great interview!

[Melf]

Vic, I can't include those shots because SFT doesn't have the rights to the game yet, so it's not 100% certain it'll get here.

[Genesis Knight]

That bit about real fans are the ones with the physical console...

...truest thing I've heard all day.

[Vicman]

That bit about real fans are the ones with the physical console...

...truest thing I've heard all day.

Personally I thought that was lamer than hell and a typical shot at the emu scene. What qualifies as true-this and true-that, whatever the subject may be, is always a sticky situation that is highly subjective and biased in my experience.

[Drixxel]

I'll be buying myself a copy of Beggar Prince even though it will undoubtedly be dumped upon the massive rom heap of the internet soon after its release. Why? Because I want to own the game and thus support the makers of the game, not just play it. That's not to say that someone who downloads Beggar Prince won't have as much fun with it as I, it's just that my personal love of gaming extends beyond bodyless code running on a computer simulation of physical hardware.

There is no purer way to experience a game other than to play it on the console it was built for with the controller it was designed around, period. That being said, I love emulation. If not for emulation, there are many games I would not have had the chance to experience. Sure, you can argue that running a game on an emulator is barely experiencing it at all, but to hell with that. Hook a Genesis controller up to a PC and put on a suitable filter to muddy up the image quality and the differences in how the game plays are miniscule at best. What's missing, though, is the satisfaction of owership, and that is what seperates the emu gamers from the collectors.

Emu gamers can enjoy the game itself as much as anyone, you see? They just lack that materialistic pack rat spirit. Yep, that's right, we're the bastards, selfish demons obsessed with possessions. Or maybe it's them for crimes of piracy. We're all going to hell!

[CMA Death Adder]

Personally I thought that was lamer than hell and a typical shot at the emu scene. What qualifies as true-this and true-that, whatever the subject may be, is always a sticky situation that is highly subjective and biased in my experience.

If anyone spent a moment looking into my extensive background in the emu-scene, they'd see I have the experience to make a statement like that. But no one does that, they just b*tch. ;)

[Vicman]

Looking at Super Fighter's site I can understand your experience within the emu-scene, nonetheless saying what qualifies as a true genesis fan is highly subjective and biased. It's an argument that's quite flawed irregardless of what experience you, or anyone, may have in trying to trumpet out said statement. It's called the fallacy of the appeal to authority.

Tell me, if I only played Master System games on a powerbase converter for my Genny does that not make me a true SMS fan? Playing PS1 games on my PS2? Playing Famicom games on a Fami-clone? GBA games on a GC via the GBA player? How about when the Nintendo Revolution comes out with it's downloadable service for old NES/SNES/N64 games? Are those who enjoy the service not "true" fans of said systems and their respective games?

The guy who sold me his JVC X'eye is selling off all his old gaming systems because he has too much clutter and needs the space because his wife is having a second child. He'd rather just play the old games via emulation on the Xbox. You mean to tell me that all of a sudden he's no longer a true Genesis fan because he no longer has the original hardware and controller? How about those who still have a Genny collecting dust in their closets, occasionally bringing it out for a game of Sonic or NHL 95 VS. those in the emu scene who are playing through a bunch of Genesis games on their respective emulators on a regular basis. Is the true genesis fan the one with the actual system or the one who's fully appreciating the games that came out for the system?

According to your definition none of these gamers would be true-XYZ gamers because they aren't playing the game on the original hardware, with the original controller. Really, I could go on and on applying this mindset and continue to show the absurdity of it. Let alone the fact that using such terms is done for personal boastage and exclusion. A sort of badge of honor amoungst those who meet the requirements and fit within the confines of said special club.

You can pull out the old experience card if you think it somehow makes your argument hold more weight, but logically it doesn't. To place arbitrary limits on what qualifies as a true/real/purer fan is just plain silly.

[Ro Nova]

I don't know, it's like the difference of an art collector owning an authentic peice of art or one who owns an imitation knock off. Genesis collectors spend a good deal of time hunting down certain carts and I think that's just a little more dedicated than clicking a mouse button. Some may call these collectors "true fans" because they spend good time and money. That's just how I feel about it. I don't really have an opinion about emulators since I don't use them. I won't assume that people who do aren't true fans. I appreciate what SFT is doing and everyone here has a pretty good point of view.

[Vicman]

I don't know, it's like the difference of an art collector owning an authentic peice of art or one who owns an imitation knock off. Genesis collectors spend a good deal of time hunting down certain carts and I think that's just a little more dedicated than clicking a mouse button. Some may call these collectors "true fans" because they spend good time and money. That's just how I feel about it. I don't really have an opinion about emulators since I don't use them. I won't assume that people who do aren't true fans. I appreciate what SFT is doing and everyone here has a pretty good point of view.

Fair enough, and I respect your position, but here's why I don't think the art analogy works. Video games unlike certain forms of art are virtual in nature. They are pieces of software/code. The experience felt is VERY real and can be extremely enjoyable but their essence is fundamentally virtual. So then what do you ultimately derive from a game? Does the plastic, paper, metal, whatever physical form the software is placed in provide you with ultimate joy? Or is it the joy derived from the characters, story, plot, world, gameplay, graphics, design that the designers/creators have provided/created for you to interact with and experience? I'd say it's largely, if not wholly, the latter. Afterall if it's primarily the former then what difference in kind is there to those that refuse to experience games made on another console or by another company, let alone the mindless consumerism plaquing our societies that pushes people to buy, buy, buy? Since they have affixed their affinity to a physical form by a specific company/brand they have artificially placed barriers to what qualifies as an enjoyable or wholesome experience.

The experience derived from the game is no longer the focus. The form/package becomes the limitus that curbs one's enjoyment. Since games are in essence virtual experiences then mandating that they be in such and such form seems quite arbitrary to me. Why should I, or anyone for that matter, limit themselves in experiencing a game, an interactive virtual reality/competition/experience, simply because it's not on a specific kind of box? I value, and have a place in my heart, for the Sega Genesis because of the games, the experiences, that was brought to me on thiws console. However, the focus, the joy, was never the console itself. Afterall it's just a piece of metal/plastic/paint/etc. It was what made it come to life that I love.

Ultimately I enjoy collecting orignal games for the esthetic, legal, long range durability, and consumerist/pack rat reasons. But I'm not going to fool myself into thinking that somehow this makes me a truer/better/purer gamer than someone else. That's just petty, shallow, and pointless to me. I'm more interested in sharing the wonder and joy that a game has brought to me with others. If they can't play it on the original hardware, for whatever reasons, I don't see why to hold it against them and look down on them because, quite frankly, virtual experiences transcend form.

P.S. I've had just as hard, if not harder, a time finding specific games to download as I have in buying them. The act of clicking a mouse to attain said game was the same (downloading/online shopping), the experience of hunting them down was same, and the thrill of getting it for free (emulation) or extremely cheap (original) is practically them same with the only difference being the ones cited above.

[Fang]

That bit about real fans are the ones with the physical console...

...truest thing I've heard all day.

I agree with that too. There is nothing like having the o.g system to play the games, the way it was meant to be.

[Genesis Knight]

Not to mention the fact that, no matter how you cut it and no matter what you say to rationalize it, using ROMs for games you don't have is *illegal*.

Which, in an ideal world, would be "'nuff said" for everyone.

[j_factor]

I dunno Vicman, personally I don't think you can download a bunch of pirate copies and call yourself a fan of it. I mean, I would certainly frown upon someone who downloads a bunch of Mxpx songs off a filesharing program calling themself a "true punk fan". Being a "true fan" of something indicates more than just enjoying it; it implies a certain level of devotion.

I have no doubt that there are many people genuinely enjoying their emulated experiences, but being a hardcore Gens user does not a Genesis fan make. Emulation is its own scene, separate from Genny lovers.

[Vicman]

Not to mention the fact that, no matter how you cut it and no matter what you say to rationalize it, using ROMs for games you don't have is *illegal*.

Which, in an ideal world, would be "'nuff said" for everyone.

Hardly, your black/white look on the subject doesn't even come close to completing the case, let alone the dig that it's "rationalization" to enjoy/justify emulation. Are you aware that Super Fighter's site is hosted by The-Underdogs? A site whose specific purpose is the keep alive the joy of playing "abandonware" games like Snatcher for the Sega CD. Games which for all intents and purposes have been abandoned by their creators, even though those creators still may have copyright over the games. In the ideal world of yours the amazing service websites/groups like the-underdogs does for fellow gamers would be null and void since sharing "abandonware" is still technically illegal.

All those places that appreciate abandoned or older games would be gone. No mods, no hacks, no fan-translations, no filters, no save-states, no-enhancements, no unreleased games, no Sonic-Crackers, no try before you buy, nothing. I'm sorry but just because something is illegal doesn't make it immoral. To equate the two is naive at best, let alone a gross over-simplification of a complex issue, especially when gaming is concerned.

I dunno Vicman, personally I don't think you can download a bunch of pirate copies and call yourself a fan of it. Being a "true fan" of something indicates more than just enjoying it; it implies a certain level of devotion.

Ah yes, a "certain level" of devotion. Here's where the crux of the argument lies. My point, which I have already expounded upon previously, shows that this certain level, this line in the sand, is highly subjective and full of personal biases, chest thumping, and purposefully clique-ish exclusionary attitudes. A person wears a "true fan" badge of honor because they've met the qualifications, they gone through the "fire", and can now proudly strut their stuff as they belong to such and such club. In the end isn't that quite silly, shallow, and pointless? Has not that individual lost sight of what was really important all along? The games?

To me all a person has to do is enjoy games that came out on the Genesis, i.e. appreciate what the system brought us as gamers, to "earn" said title of Genesis fan. Dividing into who's a "true fan" and who isn't is quite infantile to me. It's an artifical divisioning for ego's sake. Why should I place such a barrier in front of my fellow gamers and rob myself of the joy of sharing what I love with them?

[Ro Nova]

I believe my art analogy works Vicman. I doubt many think of it as an art form (myself included) but being a game collector is not too different if you look at it the right way. You asked if the physical form of the software is what provides the gamer with the ultimate joy? Yes and no.
There are some people in these forums who find it very important to collect complete copies of games and to have them in good condition. I know I prefer to purchase games with their box and instructions as I'm sure most people do. I think we had a thread about this at one point?
On the other hand, ultimate joy can come from the virtual experiance of the games alone. I'm sure that there are some people who could care less if their game has a box and instructions or if it's running on an emulator.
I don't know, it could be an appreciation of the virtual game and an appreciation of the physical product as well. Maybe that defines what a "true fan" is. Why are we posting in these forums in the first place? We're obviously all fans of the console and it's games.
You're making a very intelligent argument here and you've really got me to think about this!

[Vicman]

Thank you Ro Nova, and I think you are presenting a valid point. But notice then that we are doing is merging what it is to a be a gamer with what is to be a collector. Does being a "true" Genesis fan imply being a Genesis collector? If this was the case why the conflicting verbiage? The extra wordiness in specifying collector vs. gamer? Why isn't a Genesis fan automatically a Genesis collector? I'm sure some may think this goes hand in hand, but I beg to differ and I think the answer is clear: being a Genesis fan does not necessarily imply being a Genesis collector.

This is why some end up throwing in the slippery term "true fan", for added emphasis/implication, and this is where I find a person falls into error. As I have shown it's quite easy to throw the definition for a loop. Why waste time trying to define this slippery eel of a term and for what reasons/motives? I don't fully know but from what I can gather I think it's divisive and exclusionary.

As a Genesis fan I want as many people to experience what the Genny had to offer, with or w/o the physical barriers of hardware. What will happen when 50-100 years from now Genesis hardware is extremely hard to find? If there ends up existing videogame historians teaching the wonders of the Genny to future people I sure don't want to hold it against those future gamers that they're enjoying Genesis games in their holodecks or virtual reality hubs. :)

[Genesis Knight]

Look, Vicman! I just made you waste...what...ten minutes of your life responding to a three second post! Victory!

j/k

[j_factor]

I dunno Vicman, personally I don't think you can download a bunch of pirate copies and call yourself a fan of it. Being a "true fan" of something indicates more than just enjoying it; it implies a certain level of devotion.

Ah yes, a "certain level" of devotion. Here's where the crux of the argument lies. My point, which I have already expounded upon previously, shows that this certain level, this line in the sand, is highly subjective and full of personal biases, chest thumping, and purposefully clique-ish exclusionary attitudes.[/quote]

Yes and no. Yes it's subjective. That's kind of my point. I don't think you can come up with a set of objective qualifications for fan status. But to me, the word "fan" implies something that precludes a pirater from being one.

A person wears a "true fan" badge of honor because they've met the qualifications, they gone through the "fire", and can now proudly strut their stuff as they belong to such and such club. In the end isn't that quite silly, shallow, and pointless? Has not that individual lost sight of what was really important all along? The games?

Who cares? I for one will tune out any self-proclaimed hardcore fan who proselytises about the virtues of whatever they think gives them that status.

But I still think there's a distinction to be made here. It's not necessarily an important distinction. But there's still a difference that exists.

To me all a person has to do is enjoy games that came out on the Genesis, i.e. appreciate what the system brought us as gamers, to "earn" said title of Genesis fan. Dividing into who's a "true fan" and who isn't is quite infantile to me. It's an artifical divisioning for ego's sake.

I don't think you "earn" anything here. I just think that there is a difference between "a person who enjoys Genesis games" and a Genesis fan. Anyone can spend a few minutes downloading ROMs and have fun playing them, but that doesn't make you a fan; a fan is a little more active. An actual Genesis fan is someone who plays Genesis carts (and CDs) on a Genesis system. It's not a badge of honor, that's just what a Genesis fan is. I wouldn't call someone a rave fan if they download rave music instead of actually going to raves, and I wouldn't call someone a Hitchcock fan if they BitTorrent his films.

Why should I place such a barrier in front of my fellow gamers and rob myself of the joy of sharing what I love with them?

It's not a barrier, just a classification. Some people are fans, some people aren't, even though they may appreciate some of it. There's no reason you shouldn't share what you love with people who aren't necessarily fans of it.

[ary incorparated]

Its a difficult one Vicman,ofcourse you can be a fan" by pirating.But not a hardcore one but a cassual,if you like it and you play it ,what else would you call it. But if youre pirating only youre no hardcore fan.if everybody was pirating and saying ,hey but im still a fan,there wouldnt be much of a fanbase left for the company so they get suffocation instead.its hard to judge fanbase,but i have to agree that its illegal,actually it may be forbidden if you ask me,but then the fanbase could be ways lesser.like classic consoles are hard to judge without roms,most of the retrospective peple have a decent or good collection,some just collect those classic games for the high amount games an dont play em" al,and there are collectors who are actually try to find out if the game fits them,but what i say like you have almost every europeen and american game,but youve heard of a title cald battle mania 2 but youre wandering if its good.First you search on ebay for example,you see it for 160$ then you wouldnt buy just for youre collection so you test it via ROM,hmmm illegal yes but waht do you have to do else,in this situation people can just pirate it by playing it on emu or could buy it because of their inner pride to finnally show of their good gennesis collection or just love to have it origanal,BTW not everybody can affort a goo and expensive laptop to play pirate,so they take their genesis with em" if they want to play it.ROM are okay,i dont hae a problem with it if they ask a small cost for downloading.I dont like downloading of xbox roms etc those games are expensive i agreebut still new,and you can test em,you can return it if you want .You cant find every single genesis game but ifyou want those rare ones i agree to test it first on a way,sometimes they way is emulation,who stops it ,nobody so there is temptaion if you can.Youre a cassual gamer if you live only pirating or just a gamer,a casual one does buy all their games origanal but still dont care for every single detail of games,Most here on this site are hardcore i think,they have over the 100 origenal games and know what the game are about,Im a cassual gamer i dont fully 100% care for the games,i have other hobbys and school etc,i care like 75% fot games i think,i really love colecting sega because i just love their games and still play games like shinobi and battle mania 2.I think youre just a gamer while pirating,some may call you a non gamer but thats because you play games very cheap and simple.still prating is illegal and thats a fact,still i think youre still a fan but not a close one.No offens tough :Di got over the 700 games in my collection,together with my bro and i have over the 130 games origenal for the genesis.D