Genesis Virtual Console: Month 5

[Melf]

We're back more coverage of Sega's offerings on Nintendo's Virtual Console! This month is perhaps the best yet, with such gems as Shining Force, Shinobi III, Landstalker, and Sonic 3 on tap. If you've ever wondered whether or not you needed to get more Wii points, trust me dear friend, this is all the reason you'll ever need. Read our full article (http://www.sega-16.com/2007/09/genesis-virtual-console-vol-05/) for all the goodness.

[Joe Redifer]

Good selection of games this month, but I really wish they'd offer the CD version of Ecco and other dual Genesis/Sega CD games that aren't FMV heavy. This is especially true for the Xbox Live Arcade. Everyone hates Ecco's cartridge sounds, or at least they should. They sound like rubbing sandpaper on your ear compared to the awesome Spencer Nilsen CD renditions. I guess I can understand in the case of the Wii since the system has less memory than my quadruple-stroke-ridden great, great, great grandmother... now in her 160's.


You've got a Wii with an Internet connection?
Why yes, I do!


Then this [Shinobi III] had BETTER be on it, because otherwise I'm going to have to come over to your house and remind you just why they call that thing a "classic" controller.
You have my address. I'll be waiting. I don't even own that silly "classic" controller.

[j_factor]

Wow, really nice selection of VC games this month. Hopefully they keep up the good work.

I still don't get why Master System isn't on the VC.

[McTom]

Nobody should buy Shining in the Darkness... I thought it was horrible in the first place and, besides, it didn't particularly age well. I never got into the all-walls-look-the-same-what-the-hell-are-you-supposed-to-do RPG business. However, I agree that Landstalker and Shining Force are excellent titles.

[Jules Walter]

Shining in the Darkness didn't age at all. Dungeon crawlers have fundamentally remained the same. If you hated them then, you hate them now. People who're into them still love Eye of the Beholder as much as ever. Personally I have mixed feelings about the genre, but Shining in the Darkness wasn't bad. I'd still get Shining Force and Landstalkers before though.

[Zebbe]

Great read. But how come Tom didn't write it? I don't think I've seen the guy in a while.
A note: Yuzo did the SoR3 soundtrack together with Motohiro Kawashima, who also did two tracks for the prequel.

[megabomberman]

Wow what an absolutely awesome selection of games, it has to be said that shinobi 3 is just outstanding, what an incredibly flowing fantastic platformer...

[segagamer]

I don't think the arcade version of Space Harrier was ported to the VC...It was Space Harrier II for the Mega Drive/Genesis that is on VC.

[Elusive]

I still don't get why Master System isn't on the VC.

Do you honestly think that Nintendo's VC-buying audience even knows what a Master System is?

C'mon. You know 8-bit Sonic would get compared to 8-bit Mario, and you know who the winner would be, because nobody can't like Mario.


I wonder which version of SoR3 turned up on the Japanese Virtual Console?

[Joe Redifer]

I don't like 8-bit Mario 1. In fact I quite hate it. Super Mario 2 (USA version) on the other hand, is righteous!

[Melf]

Do you honestly think that Nintendo's VC-buying audience even knows what a Master System is?

If they know what the Turbo Grafx is, then they should know about the Master System, at least in name.

[Rusty Venture]

C'mon. You know 8-bit Sonic would get compared to 8-bit Mario, and you know who the winner would be, because nobody can't like Mario.

Mario 1 blows. Mario 2 & 3 however are quite awesome.



I wonder which version of SoR3 turned up on the Japanese Virtual Console?

Probably the version the US should have got...Bare Knuckle 3!

[j_factor]

Do you honestly think that Nintendo's VC-buying audience even knows what a Master System is?

Turbografx didn't even see a full release in Europe, and it's on your VC's.

People certainly know what Sonic, Shinobi, and Phantasy Star are (and to a lesser extent, Wonder Boy and Alex Kidd). They could even bill it as "Master System & Game Gear" (at least in America, more people know GG than SMS) and throw out Sonic Triple Trouble or something.

Also, it seems like every single VC game gets reviewed by several sites and magazines. So anything that comes out has at least some chance, I think. So something semi-obscure like Master of Darkness could be added, and could sell okay based on positive reviews. I'd be interested to see some sales/download figures, though. Already some of the VC titles are pretty obscure.

[Joe Redifer]

If I were to spend the incredibly high prices that are listed for VC games, I'd rather spend the $$$ on a SMS game than an N64 game, even if the prices for both consoles were the same. Hell, I'd pay more for an SMS game than for an N64 game. N64 games look like vomit.

[Rusty Venture]

All I have to do to replicate the N64 gaming experience is to take my glasses off and wander around.

Blurry, move closer.
Blurry, move closer.
Stand right next to the object, I can see it clearly!

N64 aka the bad vision simulator.

[Joe Redifer]

The problem with that scenario is your step 3. There is no clarity in N64 games. Step right next to the object on the N64 and it is just just a single pixel with 90x anti-aliasing applied, making it a very blurry square... usually an ugly-colored square.

[Genesis Knight]

Pretty choice lineup. Nice to see Landstalker.

[108 Stars]

Hmh...
I´d never download Virtual Console stuff on Wii. The controller sucks, and I prefer having games in a physical form, with box and instructions. For what they offer, cheap emulation, I also find them too expensive.

[Lesko900]

I kind of agree with you. I have OCD, so it bugs me greatly if I don't have a complete game. Emulation was never my thing because I crave having a game in its physical form, as complete as it would be if I just bought it brand new. I do, however, have no qualms with my friend buying VC games so we can have a quick playthrough when I go over his house.

[Rusty Venture]

I just don't see the point in spending money and not getting something tangible in return.

If I'm going to blow $5 on a game I'd at least like to have a disc/cart and a manual.

[Kogen]

How can someone say the music in the Ecco games suck for the cart version? You should get your ears checked, it certainly doesn't. Though I expected to see the SEGA CD version of Ecco as well. Just as I expected the newest Japanese version of Sonic 1, not the bugged and lacking in graphics American version. Then there's the broken vs. in SoR2 and Sonic 2... Digital Eclipse are douchebags. A lot of these new features not on the VC aren't of much use when they're broken/buggy.

As for Master System, why wouldn't that be popular? It outsold the NES in Europe/South America. North America and Japan aren't the entire world. And they had better not do more Gamegear emulation, it looks horrible on TVs. It always annoyed me how Sonic 1, 2, Chaos were the GG versions instead of the SMS versions - the GG ones are near unplayable and ruin the game's image.

[Demonic Weasel]

I just don't see the point in spending money and not getting something tangible in return.

If I'm going to blow $5 on a game I'd at least like to have a disc/cart and a manual.

I see the point for younger gamers who aren't big on pricey-ish collecting for older systems. Seriously, I prefer tangible collecting. But I'm just as happy if some recognition is given to the greats by younger gamers in this form. Who knows? Something half-decent might pop out of Sega if their's enough support this way.

Anyway, awesome line-up of titles. Shining Force, Shining in the Darkness, Landstalker... while tossing in Sonic and Streets of Rage 3.

[j_factor]

N64 emulation is the one thing I might use the VC for. I was never a fan of the N64's library, so I don't own one, but it does have a few games I liked, and the VC cleans up the graphics significantly.

[Henry Spencer]

Wow, great selection.

Streets Of Rage III is probably the most 'cult' game of the lot, as many hate it, unfortunately. And yeah, Yuzo did indeed do the music. I thought it was really good music, too. And no, I'm not potty.

In fact, many of my favourite games in the series are the ones with the number '3' in the title. Shinobi III, Streets Of Rage 3 & Bare Knuckle 3 (even better), Sonic 3, Mario 3 etc.

[Joe Redifer]

Yuzo's not listed under music composition in the credits.

Streets of Rage 3 is the only game to honestly make me think my Genesis was broken. In some levels the "music" sounds like random pressings on a keyboard. I thought the sound hardware broke. Nope. I'm surprised Yuzo didn't get beaten up in public after the music he took credit for in SoR3 and Beyond Oasis.

[Rusty Venture]

I like some of the music in SOR3. It's not 100% catchy and memorable as in the previous two games, but there are some choice cuts.

And I adore the control in "3".

[Zebbe]

Both my cartridge and box insert of Bare Knuckle III says "Music kåppirajt Yuzo Koshiro". It is probably also mentioned at least thrice in the game itself as well, like in Story of Thor.

[Joe Redifer]

Beat the game. The music was composed by someone else and "supervised" by Yuzo or some such nonsense. Though I can understand him not wanting to take credit for games like SoR3, Beyond Oasis and ActRaiser 2. All 3 games have some of the worst music ever in the history of everything. It really is laughable, especially when you expect greatness from a name like Yuzo and don't get it.

[Zebbe]

Project 2612 lists Yuzo as the composer of 17 out of 27 tracks from SoR3, where Motohiro Kawashima made the rest. Yuzo also said Beyond Oasis is one of the soundtracks he is most proud of. When you can read his name right under the "The End"-screen of the game, I cannot doubt it.

[kylera]

The VC would be the best platform to use a subscription method, especially since (to the best of my knowledge -- I do not own a Wii) you cannot store EVERYTHING you buy...can you?

[Joe Redifer]

Yuzo also said Beyond Oasis is one of the soundtracks he is most proud of.
Never heard him say that. He really did a horrible job on that one. No melody whatsoever, and even the ambiance fails. A child could do it. It's like one of those paintings where buckets of random paint are thrown on to the canvas, and then it's called art.

[InternalPrimate]

Great read. But how come Tom didn't write it? I don't think I've seen the guy in a while.

I'm alive, and semi-back :D Just had a rough couple of months. Ken did an awesome job with the article though!

[Genesis Knight]

I guess you don't like standard orchestral/theatrical type music, Joe, because Beyond Oasis has an excellent soundtrack in that respect. The compositions aren't pop songs with melodies; they're more of the classical songs like you see in Lord of the Rings.

[Joe Redifer]

I do like orchestral tracks... when it sounds like an orchestra. Orchestras can have actual melodies without sounding like a pop song. I'm not too fond of synth orchestra, even when the SNES does it (though I really liked ActRaiser's music). The worst is synth choir, even though Beyond Oasis doesn't try that.

Some of the composition of Beyond Oasis is fine, but the game has a near Master System quality to the sound, and uses very few channels. What really gets me is stuff like this:

Actual music from Beyond Oasis (http://pixelcraze.film-tech.net/crap/bo.mp3) - 414K

I don't hear any actual composition... it's more like a child randomly pressing keys. It sounds like a broken Genesis. Completely laughable.

[Genesis Knight]

Come on, Joe, you picked the WORST song in the collection to back up your point. That one's not representative, or my memory is awful.

[CRV]

I don't hear any actual composition... it's more like a child randomly pressing keys. It sounds like a broken Genesis. Completely laughable.

In fairness to Koshiro, he didn't program Beyond Oasis (actually, I don't think he programmed most of the MD games he composed on).

[Joe Redifer]

Feel free to post the best song.

Yuzo didn't make the entire game himself? I always cursed at him when I couldn't figure out a puzzle right away or the collision detection was bad or I couldn't find any cheese.

[Genesis Knight]

Bad collision detection? Have you even played this game? :wtf:

I can't post music since I don't have the means to record, but how about these tracks:

Confession
Ending
MasterMind
Peaceful
Story of Thor
Indication
Boundless Cliff

And I know exactly why Koshiro was so proud of his soundtrack for Oasis - it's because each track fits its environment seamlessly. Listen to Mysterious Green - it captures the spirit of a haunted, dilapidated palace perfectly. Abyss is appropriately mournful and wretched. Awakening is suitably mellow and musty, like an long-dormant force being newly awakened, and you can practically hear the bats in Burning Cave.

That said, I know that you almost never change your opinion or even give an inch, Joe, so there's no point in even starting a debate about it.

I've given you the tracks I like. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder; if you dislike them then that's your opinion and not empirical fact.

:blah: ;)

[Joe Redifer]

I just mentioned collision detection because that is associated with programming. I didn't know what else to say since there aren't any bugs or anything in the game I could blame Yuzo for.

I agree that a person's musical preference is opinion, but it is fact that the sound engine in this game is very weak. Just listen to the "SEGA!" at startup. Now listen to the same thing in Sonic 1. Rarely are there more than two channels going on at the same time. Seriously, it sounds like an 8-bit game. "Orchestral" music should not be 8-bit sounding. But then again I'm not sure if he was truly going fo the orchestral sound or not since it still sounds hollow, thin and substandard on the Saturn... though better.

[Genesis Knight]

Just thought of it - the lack of 'richness' could be because they used the PCM for voices in the Beyond Oasis sound engine.

[CRV]

Yuzo didn't make the entire game himself? I always cursed at him when I couldn't figure out a puzzle right away or the collision detection was bad or I couldn't find any cheese.

I was referring to the sound.

[Genesis Knight]

He didn't do much of anything by himself at all - there are a lot of programmers, designers, and technicians listed in the credits.

[Myrkwood]

Good list of games. Damn I need to get a Wii sometime but they were all sold out so I bought a 360. Still it's a bit disappointing that it's just Sonic 3 and not Sonic 3 & Knuckles. It just doesn't seem right anymore or complete without the full version. Super Thunder Blade was a great deal for me as I got it complete in great condition for a single buck. Even though it's average.

[spiggysparks]

The VC would be the best platform to use a subscription method, especially since (to the best of my knowledge -- I do not own a Wii) you cannot store EVERYTHING you buy...can you?

If you run out of space it is free to redownload a game you've purchased.