PDA

View Full Version : What if,just what if Dreamcast...



SegataS
03-11-2018, 11:37 PM
Dreamcast had a full lifespan of 5-6 years. SEGA is able to financially support it the full 5-6 years.

The only other console on the market is Gamecube. No Xbox or PS2. Nothing hardware wise is different. No DVD drive for Dreamcast. The same hardware we know but the only 2 on the market in this hypothetical scenario. Both proprietary discs are very close in the amount of data. Both have the pretty powerful hardware for the era. Gamecube has the edge but being more powerful has rarely meant more sales. Just look at 2600, NES, PS1, PS2, Wii and so forth.


Dreamcast has one of the best launch lineups ever in the US. Gamecube has a decent one but we have to remove Crazy Taxi. No SEGA releases on other systems in this scenario.

Since there is only these two we can now debate who gets Square? Where does GTA III release? Does EA still abandon Dreamcast? Does the DC online become the killer app like XBL did? Does Nintendo counter more seriously? is RE4 this time truly exclusive to Gamecube? Many more questions can be asked and debated. Was the hardware power really that significant?

Then we have the big one. Who wins in sales? Is it neck and neck or does one of them take off and break records? Or is this Genesis vs SNES all over again?


This topic is all about asking and answering and debating this scenario.

https://i.imgur.com/tHfs7eC.jpg

Barone
03-12-2018, 12:12 AM
Without Sony stealing Sega's thunder with inflated promises about the PS2 capabilities and also without Microsoft stabbing Sega and paying developers to kill their DC projects?

I honestly think the DC would have smashed the GameCube pretty hard in such scenario, especially outside Japan.

stu
03-12-2018, 01:03 AM
Interesting What If? thread.

Likely with no Sony, (there would either have been no PS1 or it would have been a failure), meaning that Sega would likely have got Square back in the 5th gen (N64 has no CD capability) and likely kept them for the Dreamcast since the Saturn would have likely smashed the N64. EA would have continued their relationship with Sega too. GTA III would have likely found a home on a Sega system rather than a Nintendo one.

My 2 cents.

SegataS
03-12-2018, 01:19 AM
I don't think EA would return to SEGA because SEGA going PowerVR was a nail in that coffin. Seeing how Square came back to Gamecube already and GBA was on the market as the best selling handheld I think Square would have returned to Nintendo full stop. R* I agree would have likely stuck with Dreamcast. In fact, I feel DC would have seen more Western support as is it was PC port friendly. The only title I really don't think would have come to DC and likely not even GC but maybe is Doom 3. But hey Half-Life would have been released on DC. I have no doubt RE4 would stay on GC as I don't see how DC would run RE4. It looked like shit on PS2 and even the cutscenes were not in the game but in engine from the GC version. Halo would be DC and PC. (Halo was once considered for DC)

SegataS
03-12-2018, 04:36 AM
Without Sony stealing Sega's thunder with inflated promises about the PS2 capabilities and also without Microsoft stabbing Sega and paying developers to kill their DC projects?

I honestly think the DC would have smashed the GameCube pretty hard in such scenario, especially outside Japan.

DC struggled in Japan. Do you think that changes that in anyway?

IrishNinja
03-12-2018, 04:59 AM
it's really hard for me to conceptualize this thread's thesis statement

okay, yeah, that first wave of OG xbox games shows we had more absolute classics on deck....any more time we could've had with that creative/firing on all cylinders era of sega, id've taken

but - and hear me out here, i might take some shit for this -

we kinda needed sony.

you can firmly sign me up in the camp that - while i enjoyed (and still do) the shift to 6-10 hour single player AAA games (SOTN, MGS, etc) i too regret the way we ditched arcade type gameplay right around when i think it started to get perfected. but sony pushed easier devkits, pushing the envelope of sega's prior marketing towards adults, etc etc and it's almost impossible to honestly look at our current gaming landscape without that. i'd argue it can't be done: yes, nintendo very largely still follows much of the same game design philosophy, and as a result have been seen as an outlier for ages now.

i'm not saying a sega who had 4 controller ports & a modem in '99 wouldn't have adapted - far from it - i'm saying, market realities that have current AAA games in the tens of millions and all but require hardware leaders to eat costs up front that, at times, cause them to hemorrhage in the billions short term for long term profits = a game sega very clearly couldn't have played, and possibly shouldn't have even if, say, the namco deal would've worked. to this day, i enjoy our current offerings but don't think this is a healthy market.

fuck i'm a little buzzed here, bear with me

it's kinda easy to pair DC vs GC not just cause of the obvious rivalry, but because in my mind the GC was about the last dedicated gaming device we've seen. imagine a nintendo system now that only plays games and doesn't offer online/some form of multimedia functions.

...my point is: sony changed the game, for better or worse. we can talk about how an elongated DC vs GC would've done - and are you kidding me here?! sega putting out some of their finest work vs rushed versions of mario sunshine, wind waker etc while the one leg nintendo stood on the gen prior (Rare) died out - but removing sony from this timeline makes it something else entirely that i have a hard time envisioning enough to comment on

SegataS
03-12-2018, 05:13 AM
Wind Waker was by no means rushed. It's one of the best Zelda games ever made and Nintendo also put out Metroid Prime. One of the best in the series and still the sound design impresses for a system without surround. It rivals SM. Melee was a well-Smashing success and still played at Evo. I agree Sunshine and Mario Kart DD is lackluster but no fucking universe are any of them rushed ESP Wind Waker or Prime or Melee. Sonic Adventure games felt a bit rushed at times and sloppy as much as I love them because of nostalgia. Some of the worst audio mixing ever. A good point is brought up, however. Rare. Nintendo opted not to buy the remaining 51% of Rare and sold their 49% to MS. What the hell would have happened to Rare?

This is not about need. This is purely hypothetical about DC and GC only. Some of these conclusions are based what did happen but this topic is all about what would've happened as a lot of what did happen likely would have changed. Both Nintendo and SEGA were doing more adult themed marketing by this point. (Seriously go watch those weird people trapped in cube ads) SEGA did have some bad ads to with Man Ass and fish fucking in magazines...ugh...I still cringe. I don't think GC really had the best marketing either with the exception of that amazing Metroid Prime advertisement that was as close to a Metroid movie we will ever get.


Also, side note I am not picking who I think would have won in sales as I am too bias as DC is a system I adore to the point it's an obsession. This topic is about more than sales tho as in the OP multiple questions to be debated.

Team Andromeda
03-12-2018, 05:18 AM
I don't think EA would return to SEGA because SEGA going PowerVR was a nail in that coffin.

Power VR had nothing to do with it and that was a lame excuse used by EA. Even without SONY, SEGA would have a hard time going forward and would have needed to partner with the likes of Panasonic or Samsung given how much it cost to develop a console.
Its sad that we didn't get to see the full life span of the DC or got to see a Dreamcast II based on the NA@MI II board.

IrishNinja
03-12-2018, 05:29 AM
preface: i genuinely enjoy your posts, SegataS


Wind Waker was by no means rushed. It's one of the best Zelda games ever made and Nintendo also put out Metroid Prime. One of the best in the series and still the sound design impresses for a system without surround. It rivals SM. Melee was a well-Smashing success and still played at Evo. I agree Sunshine and Mario Kart DD is lackluster but no fucking universe are any of them rushed ESP Wind Waker or Prime or Melee. Sonic Adventure games felt a bit rushed at times and sloppy as much as I love them because of nostalgia. Some of the worst audio mixing ever. A good point is brought up, however. Rare. Nintendo opted not to buy the remaining 51% of Rare and sold their 49% to MS. What the hell would have happened to Rare?


to start: i too love Wind Waker (especially at launch), just cited it cause it's a go-to since we all know some dungeons were left unfinished & transferred into TP

Smash wasn't rushed either, but Sunshine felt it, to me. Metoid Prime was Rare, and frankly they knocked it out the park.

as i recall from the time: Nintendo (who needed/survived on Rare, definitely here in the states during the N64 era) passed partly because they couldn't be guaranteed that the full staff would stay. MS then bought a shell of them and as a result, did sweet fuckall with them post Viva Pinata.

but real talk? go back & look at Rare's output the gen prior. we're talking, a company that went toe-to-toe with nintendo on platformers (conker's, banjo kazooie), kart racers (diddy kong), and on top of that, were strong where they are weak: fighters (KI), FPS (the megahit goldeneye, as well as perfect dark) and still had time for fan favorites like jet force gemini & my personal fave, blast corps.
nintendo has literally been wanting for a rare since rare.


This is not about need. This is purely hypothetical about DC and GC only. Some of these conclusions are based what did happen but this topic is all about what would've happened as a lot of what did happen likely would have changed. Both Nintendo and SEGA were doing more adult themed marketing by this point. (Seriously go watch those weird people trapped in cube ads) SEGA did have some bad ads to with Man Ass and fish fucking in magazines...ugh...I still cringe. I don't think GC really had the best marketing either with the exception of that amazing Metroid Prime advertisement that was as close to a Metroid movie we will ever get.

okay, so then:
no sega ports to GC. you know what that means, after the misstep that was carts on the N64? the capcom deal - RE4, RE0, viewfitulf joe, killer 7 (a big fave of mine), PN03 etc - would very obviously have stayed with sega. GTA 3? sega. EA & square? still sega, nintendo burned the latter and EA only ditched the former for competition.

i really loved the GC, but sega would've owned without sony's competition. and i don't know that MS would have even bothered without them (and halo, which without MS, would've stayed a mac hit).

to me, this scenario is like imagining sony partnered with/later ate sega: nintendo would've been, at best, in the same position they are: dead in the water until a huge casual hit like the wii or the switch way later.

SegataS
03-12-2018, 05:39 AM
Prime is Retro Studios. :p

Also Jet Force Gemini my favorite Rare game. First time seeing someone else being the same way lol. Oh and thanks.

IrishNinja
03-12-2018, 05:45 AM
ahhh you're right, it's retro

and i wish i'dve played gemini in its era, it's tricker to revisit but at least the meat is there...unlike say, playing hybrid heaven in 2012 like oh man what the fuck is this

stu
03-12-2018, 10:47 AM
I don't think EA would return to SEGA because SEGA going PowerVR was a nail in that coffin. Seeing how Square came back to Gamecube already and GBA was on the market as the best selling handheld I think Square would have returned to Nintendo full stop. R* I agree would have likely stuck with Dreamcast. In fact, I feel DC would have seen more Western support as is it was PC port friendly. The only title I really don't think would have come to DC and likely not even GC but maybe is Doom 3. But hey Half-Life would have been released on DC. I have no doubt RE4 would stay on GC as I don't see how DC would run RE4. It looked like shit on PS2 and even the cutscenes were not in the game but in engine from the GC version. Halo would be DC and PC. (Halo was once considered for DC)



As far the as the PowerVR thing with EA that was all a bullshit excuse not to support Dreamcast, EA figured they didn't need Sega as they knew Sony was coming out with the PS2.

In this alternate discussion that would not be the case as you said no Sony or MS. I can't see where EA would go other than buying out 3DO and using M2 to build their own console, the Saturn would likely have beaten the N64 (CDs being the future, carts stuck in the past) leaving Sega the market leader. As for Square I would say they would have gone with Sega in the 5th gen and I guess supported both Sega and Nintendo in the 6th gen. I agree mostly with the rest of what you wrote re the PC ports, half life, Halo etc. As for RE4 who knows, there would have only been Sega and Nintendo, maybe a timed exclusive for Nintendo then a DC port?