Genesis/Mega Drive games with similar gameplay/graphics/sound engines

[Aarzak]

I was inspired to make this thread after not only thinking over how many Genny games seemingly if not obviously shared similar resources behind their development, many of which were distinct to a specific company or developer, but because a new case such as this had just dawned on me. It's definitely petty compared to most others, but I'll throw it out here anyways:


YUJI NAKA-PROGRAMMED MD/GENESIS GAMES:

Besides the Genesis Sonic trilogy which Mr. Naka is most known for (that's right, I'm one of those "It's Sonic 3 complete, not Sonic 3 & Knuckles or Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles!" people), Naka also whipped up a handful of pre-Sonic Genesis titles or at least had a big hand in them. One couldn't tell unless you had read or heard it before, but the most glaring sign that you're playing a Naka-programmed Genesis title is..........

the in-game transition/fade-out effect.

Back in my "cart" days, I used to obsess and nitpick over aspects of games which 99% of all other gamers couldn't give a rat's ass about, namely the "smoothness" of the fade-outs and transitions in Genesis & SNES games. I saw and was pissed that a lot of SNES games had silky-smooth (like Mai Shiranui's ass) transitions and fade-outs between game screens (i.e most Nintendo, Capcom, Konami-developed games) while only a handful of Genny titles had comparable ones (i.e Gunstar Heroes, the Sonic trilogy, Revenge of Shinobi) and most had "ugly", rough, abrupt transitions and fade-outs (i.e the Genesis Street Fighters, most American-developed games liek EA and SoA's fare). Among the handful of Genny titles that had "smooth" fade-outs and transitions were games that are known to have been programmed by Naka, which have a distinctive and smooth-as-buttah fade-out effect. The games which share this are:

-"Super Thunder Blade" (Why Yuji why? You definitely dropped the soap with this arcade port son. Worst scaling I've ever seen on the Genesis, period.)
- "Ghouls 'N Ghosts" (now THIS is much more like it Yuji. Great, critically acclaimed arcade port.)
- "Phantasy Star II" (never really played it, nice cutscenes though. $80-ish when first released though, damn!)
- The Sonic trilogy ('nuff said".)

Here's some videos that best summarize what the hell I've just been running off about:

"Super Thunder Blade":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzwG1qorxgo

"Ghouls N' Ghosts":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTTCDtos3JI

"Phantasy Star II":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cz-0NRS2czM

Sonic:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMb7k9VunnY

Also of note, these games (the pre-Sonics) also seem to share the same sound engine, in that the PSG and noise channels are barely if at all touched. Though this was the case with a lot of early Mega Drive titles.

But yeah.........neat fade-outs. Unliek "Special Laryngitis Edition":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2419ZwUtrFQ

Anyone else care to add?

[Joe Redifer]

I'm pretty sure that Sonic 1 and 2 use PSG a-plenty.

[Aarzak]

I said the pre-Sonic Naka titles obviously.

*flicks a PSG chip at you like a penny*

[Iron Lizard]

I didn't give a rats ass about the transitions . I was pissed my Genesis couldn't put out the butt loads of color that the Snes could.

[Aarzak]

Yup, meager-ass palette. Thankfully these Naka-programmed titles were programmed so beautifully (minus Thunder Blade) that they harmonized perfectly with the limited palette.

Yeah.............nice segueway there. I'm SO badass.

[Myrkwood]

I never noticed before but I'll have a look out for transitions in the future.

[Aarzak]

OLD-SCHOOL UNCONFIRMED RUMOR: The original Streets of Rage used a "hacked" version of the Mega Drive Golden Axe engine.

That would explain the special attacks mapped to the "A" button for just that game, but not the lack of upward/downward walking sprites. "Alien Storm" definitely shared the Golden Axe engine though. Sprites even look exactly the same save for the cosmetic changes.

[Joe Redifer]

I didn't give a rats ass about the transitions . I was pissed my Genesis couldn't put out the butt loads of color that the Snes could.
Butt loads? Many games looked great but I don't recall anything too overwhelming in terms of colors. Usually the SNES graphics could be matched by the PC Engine/TurboGrafx colorwise.

[Iron Lizard]

Butt loads? Many games looked great but I don't recall anything too overwhelming in terms of colors. Usually the SNES graphics could be matched by the PC Engine/TurboGrafx colorwise.

First off im talking about 1991 here. The Tg16 was not a common system. I knew one kid who had one at the time and his choice of games never looked any better they my Genny. I know it put out more colors even at the time but what games that came to the U.S. ever showed it off. If they ever did who hell knew about it. Most looked like supercharged Nes games.No one bought that system. I have one now with the cd and it has only reinforced my opinion. Yeah the Pcengine version of Street Fighter is more colorful but once again who saw it here. It may have well not existed. Perhaps my opinion would be different if I grew up in Japan.

Maybe you were not overwhelmed but I was was. The colors looked amazing. The games had this nice glow to them that my beloved Genesis never had. My Genesis had Super Monaco Gp ,the Snes had F Zero. My Genesis had Ghouls'n'Ghosts , the Snes had Super Ghouls'n'Ghosts, My Genesis had Streets of Rage ,the Snes had Final Fight ( Incidentally I prefer the Sega titles but I still don't think they look better) Later on the Genesis games looked much better but aside from a few Games (Sonic, Strider) at the time (1991) the colors on the Snes pointed out one the Genesis's weaknesses.

[Myrkwood]

How the hell one guy did all the graphics for ecco in such a short time with only 64 colors at once still amazes me. The guy was really young too apparently.

[Iron Lizard]

Wonderboy in Monster World always impressed me.

[AxelStone]

I didn't give a rats ass about the transitions . I was pissed my Genesis couldn't put out the butt loads of color that the Snes could.

Have you actually played Sonic 1? It is stunning, you don't even realize the minimal pallete while playing that. The lava graphics suck though.

[tomaitheous]

Most looked like supercharged Nes games.No one bought that system. I have one now with the cd and it has only reinforced my opinion.

Wait.. you have a CD unit, played the CD import games, and still think they look like supercharged NES games? Or am I reading that wrong.


Have you actually played Sonic 1? It is stunning, you don't even realize the minimal pallete while playing that. The lava graphics suck though.

It did look amazing. So did Sonic 2. IMO - Gaiares looked really impressive back in the day. It had SNES style graphics.

[Myrkwood]

Did Sonic even use the whole 64 colors at once most of the time? It looked like it didn't use too many colors... but somehow it still looked colorful and kick ass.

[Aarzak]

I figure few games actually used all 61 colors on-screen, probably late-gen games. Look at the Genesis port of "Mortal Kombat 3". That sucker filled up that 32 Meg cart to the absolute brim, and stretched the Genny hardware to it's absolute limit which Probe failed to do so with those substandard MK1 & MK2 ports (I recall being relieved when I saw that "Sculptured Software" was behind the Genesis MK3 port on the opening copyright. "OMG, the developer of the SNES ports is on board!). That game definitely looked like it used all 61 colors plus tons of dithering and mesh............and it was still nowhere enough.

[Joe Redifer]

California Games puts 241 colors or something like that onscreen simultaneously......... in the options screen.

[Iron Lizard]

Wait.. you have a CD unit, played the CD import games, and still think they look like supercharged NES games? Or am I reading that wrong.



It did look amazing. So did Sonic 2. IMO - Gaiares looked really impressive back in the day. It had SNES style graphics.

Not all cd games are like but enough of them were. The whole Y's series as much as I love it does not look so good. Exile kicks ass. I have a few real stinkers Adams Family, Fighting Street, and they are absolutely horrible. I have the Arcade card version of Fatal Fury and the Card version of Street Fighter2 crushes it. Most of the card games that came to the U.S. not only look like Nes games but play just like them Bonk Keith Courage, Legendary Axe. Keep in mind the Pcengine came out in 1987. I love my Tg16 but personally I think its a bit overrated.

[Elusive]

I didn't give a rats ass about the transitions . I was pissed my Genesis couldn't put out the butt loads of color that the Snes could.

One is 1988 technology, the other is 1991 technology. You may as well be pissed that your GameCube can't output HDMI, and doesn't have a dedicated online service.


OLD-SCHOOL UNCONFIRMED RUMOR: The original Streets of Rage used a "hacked" version of the Mega Drive Golden Axe engine.

I would have thought that that was obvious. Only you couldn't ride things in Streets of Rage, nor could you run. Seeing as they're basically identical games otherwise (graphics aside, obviously), I'd guess it's a somewhat modified and customised Golden Axe engine to suit the urban theme.

[TmEE]

Getting lots of colors from MD is not very easy... mid frame palette changing is an easy way of doubling (or tripling or even more) on screen colors, but it will be difficult to handle. In Sonic, it is used in everywhere where there's water. Another way would be to use Shadow/Highlight, but it isn't very comfortable, but requires very little attention not like midframe palette changing.
But with good artist you can make wonders with limited colors.

[Iron Lizard]

One is 1988 technology, the other is 1991 technology. You may as well be pissed that your GameCube can't output HDMI, and doesn't have a dedicated online service.
.

Give me a fucking break I was 11 years old! Jesus Christ

[tomaitheous]

Getting lots of colors from MD is not very easy... mid frame palette changing is an easy way of doubling (or tripling or even more) on screen colors, but it will be difficult to handle. In Sonic, it is used in everywhere where there's water. Another way would be to use Shadow/Highlight, but it isn't very comfortable, but requires very little attention not like midframe palette changing.
But with good artist you can make wonders with limited colors.

True, true. But like you said it isn't easy. Games have to be designed around this and it's still limiting. I think in the end, it's the pixel artists talent that shows through. People throw around number of colors on screen like 61 etc, but those people don't realize it isn't a bitmap display that you can spew 61 colors where ever you want. Tile based displays should list the number of sub palettes available. For the SG that's 4 palettes of 15 colors for BG and sprites, Snes 8 palettes of 15 colors for BG and another 8 palettes of 15 colors for sprites (there's also two modes where each tile is 8bit color depth from a single sub palette of 256 colors).

Btw- do you guys know that the 3-D stages in Axelay aren't mode 7? The genesis can do those exact stages (minus transparency).

[Aarzak]

They aren't? (Axelay's stages?) Come to think about it, I recall seeing that "roll-up paper" scaling effect used in another game: "Mickey Mania". Specifically the Moose Chase stage, which was identical across all 3 versions of the game (Genesis, SNES, Sega CD).

"Axelay" had one instance in which two layers of the "roll-up" background were used (towards the end of level 3) which was rare as I'd never seen more than one layer of a scaling background in those days.

[tomaitheous]

Yeah - it's just a simple Hsync routine that Genesis, SNES, PC Engine can do. Hell - even the SMS and the NES(with the right MMC) can do it.

Chris Covell did a Axelay demo for the Super Grafx to show off that it's not mode 7.

You know that spinning cube at the Gunstar Heroes title screen? That's an Hsync effect.

[Joe Redifer]

Sonic 3D Blast for the world-famous Sega Genesis did two Axelay screens simultaneously. That game was so powerful that it was banned by the United Nations.

[tomaitheous]

Sonic 3D Blast for the world-famous Sega Genesis did two Axelay screens simultaneously. That game was so powerful that it was banned by the United Nations.

Hey(!) - got a video of it?

[Gentlegamer]

The lava graphics suck though.Heh, I always mentally note that when I play Sonic the Hedgehog. It seemed like the Genny doesn't have enough red/yellow hues to make good-looking lava, especially compared to games like Super Mario World and ActRaiser for SNES, released the same year.

[Aarzak]

Here yer go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNHFba0hgFQ (Knuckles' Special Stages)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUGOiBF3qoM (Tails' Special Stages)

Genesis 3D Blast's Special Stages were definitely impressive from a technical standpoint, but they were boring as hell and pretty easy. Not to mention, the collision detection on those (scaling?) spikes was kinda iffy, then again so it was with the bombs in Sonic 2's Special Stage.

Sonic Team clearly saw that Traveller's Tales' Special Stages were crappy and stepped in and whipped up their own for the Saturn port of 3D Blast:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsED4AOAE68

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oOkQUkYVTo

I remember first playing the Genny 3D Blast SS's when I got it for Christmas of '96 and thinking they were impressive (was def. blown away by the intro), but also thinking "y'know, that Crash Bandicunt looks much better". My pops shelled out 65 hard-earned dollars for that copy of 3D Blast, and I had just shuffled it aside after about a week, much preferring the used copies of "Fatal Fury" and "Golden Axe II" that I got later that week. Spoiled lil' brat.

[Blaze]

whoever is playin the Sonic 1 green hill act really blows, then it again it goes to show that Sonic wasnt jus a run n jump. It was a real platformer (jus bought the game for 5 buks a few min ago)

[tomaitheous]

As opposed to the fake platformers? :p

Thanks for the links! That's cool they did that, but too bad it was just a bonus thing. It'd be nice to see a shooter similar to Axelay on the SG.

[megadriveworld]

Not that these games are popular or widely known or anything. But it seems DJ Boy and Aero Blaster have the same sound driver, along with the same music composer. The overall sound, 'instruments' and weak drums sound the same in both games. What's ashame is the actual scores/writing are quite well done, the sound quality just lets it down.

[Joe Redifer]

Ewwww, those videos are from an emulator.

[Aarzak]

Yeah, they're from an emulator. Wanna make something out of it...........................yeah! *says so to you from that distance*

The thing that bothered me about Axelay's "Mode 7" stages was that prevelance of "fog" just at the horizon where the BG "rolls out". I've also seen it in some genuine Mode 7 games. And those horizontal bars on "F-Zero" as well.