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Sega Uranus
09-05-2005, 01:18 PM
Which is better?


well the Jaguar does have Rayman,

3DO has Samurai Shodown,

32X has Virtua Fighter,



I guess they all suck...but, what do you think?

j_factor
09-05-2005, 11:47 PM
They all kinda suck, but have a few good games. 32x did have Tempo and Kolibri, but that really ain't much. I guess Jaguar, if only for the aftermarket homebrew games. Although, its two best games (from when it was on the market), Rayman and Tempest 2000, were both ported rather well to Saturn. Then again, 3DO was pretty much a port machine too. Hmm.

lordofduct
09-06-2005, 02:24 AM
The 3DO really was crap... what original games were made for it? Gex? which innevitably made it over to the PSX anyways... and the price! Oh dear the freakin' price. It had some other original games, but they really sucked. Like Jurassic Park, OMG don't make me sick right now.

The Jaguar, I feel bad for this machine, I feel it really did have some potential. Why the hell didn't anyone make games for it? What the hell!

The 32X, well we ALL know why this flopped and had no developers...

So I think I'm gonna have to say... hrmm. They all suck on the same level, BUT the 32X just looks so cute ontop of my genny/CD combo and has Knuckles Chaotix (just love sonic)... so its 32X for me.

Drixxel
09-06-2005, 03:31 AM
The Jaguar is a personal favourite of mine.. Alien vs. Predator, Defender 2000, Doom, Iron Soldier, Missile Command 3D, Power Drive Rally, Raiden, Rayman, Super Burnout, Tempest 2000, Ultra Vortek, Wolfenstein 3D.. yessir, all good. And who can deny the sheer embarassing entertainment value of Kasumi Ninja? Yeah, the Jaguar's cool. Small library, some utterly terrible games, and questionable hardware design, but hey.. I like 'er.

3DO.. I've lately been thinking about starting up a 3DO collection. There's enough out there among the obvious nuggets of crap that interests me, but I haven't played nearly enough 3DO to give a solid opinion on it. It's curious how the 3DO had such strong support from Japanese developers, especially when you consider that the other early next-gen systems at the time lacked that completely.

The 32X has it's winners, but with an even smaller game library than the Jaguar, egad. After Burner Complete, Knuckles Chaotix, Kolibri, Mortal Kombat II, Space Harrier, Tempo, Zaxxon's Motherbase 2000.. with games like that I can almost look at the 32X as a contender, but ehhh.. at least it beats the CD-I, which was of course the most successful home console, bar none.

I'm voting for Jag out of the three.

lordofduct
09-06-2005, 04:10 AM
why didn't you make this a poll anyways?

crazyjoedavola
09-06-2005, 08:26 AM
This is a good question. I never did like the 3DO. I thought it was way overpriced even though the technology was state of the art when it came out, it was quickly eclipsed by Playstation and Saturn.

I was rooting for Atari. I really wanted to see them come back and have a successful console and there were a handful of great games for the system. Alien vs Predator, Tempest 2000 and I even liked Iron Soldier.

I never really bought into the 32X when it came out either, mainly because I decided to wait for the Saturn so I didn't get to experience many games for it. I did get to play Doom which was a pretty solid port and Cosmic Carnage which I thought was a pretty crappy fighter.

My vote has to go with the Jaguar. If I were to get one of those systems today to start collecting games for, it'd be the Jag.

Melf
09-06-2005, 09:32 AM
I added a poll.

I liked the Jagaur, as it had some memorable games. The controller was just awful though, and most of its great titles have been ported elsewhere. Even the mighty AvP has taken a hit, as it's almost unplayable nowadays due to the appalling framerate. There's also a better version on PC.

The 3DO was crap from the start. For the price they wanted, you got very little. Most of its games have been ported as well, and the only thing that sticks out for me is the godly soundtrack Super Street Fighter II Turbo had-- which wasn't redbook. Oh, and the game had no sound test either. Brilliant!

I'd have to give props to the 32X, due to it's decent library, and the fact that no additional shelf space is required to have it.

Electroman
09-06-2005, 01:00 PM
32X gets my pic. Melf brought a good point; it takes only Z-space and does have a rare few very good softs for it.

Jaguar has the best version of Tempest ever; easily worth owning the system for just that one game.

3DO; I'd like to think of it as a hyper SegaCD. I don't have much experience with it, but it did have a couple good games. Best port of Samurai Shodown, that el-destructo game I forget the name of it. But the rest of it was just littered with FMV crap.

j_factor
09-07-2005, 05:16 PM
3DO had Star Control 2. That alone makes it a close contender to me.

Wampaa
09-08-2005, 09:20 AM
3DO Hands down the best if you ignore the insane price tag.

Star Control 2
Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo
Samurai Showdown
Myst
Slayer

Those are the ones off the top of my head that ruled.

At the time there wasn't anything that could touch it. We had a Jaguar and 3DO constanly running at the store I worked at where you could see them both run. Hands down the 3DO made the Jaguar look pretty pathetic. There simply weren't enough games for Jaguar. And I won't even mention how much I hate the 32X. Sega's worst moment.

David J.
09-11-2005, 10:54 PM
A lot of the Jaguar games I can get on other systems, and I've never looked at what the 3DO has to offer.

But I'm going with the 32X, only a small number of great games, takes up almost no space, and it is not that unreliable. Back in the day I did wish Atari would have made a great console, but the only area it was popular in was homebrew.

Say, wasn't the decryption broken for the CD games, so you don't need a cart anymore? That'd make homebrew a lot cheaper (well, granted you own a Jag CD) and easier.

Vicman
09-12-2005, 10:01 AM
I'm just glad I wasn't aware, let alone in the market for a new system, when these things came out. IMO they all suck, and with the exception of the 32X since it's a Sega Genesis add-on, I would only purchase them now to resell them for profit. Outside of being a mad console collector what's the point in having them when their best games have been ported and play/look better on more successful consoles? Just for ultra video game collector geekiness-sake? Bah!

I ask for another option to be added to the poll: "None, the all suck!" :P

lordofduct
09-12-2005, 12:11 PM
I definatly agree!

Melf
09-12-2005, 12:36 PM
Poll option added!

GeckoYamori
09-12-2005, 01:28 PM
3DO has Return Fire, that game is the shit, I tell you. Extremly fun multiplayer.

Vicman
09-12-2005, 01:52 PM
:lol: Awesome work Melf! :lol:

Dartagnan1083
09-12-2005, 01:58 PM
The PSX got 'Return Fire' two years later.
IMO, it's almost never worth it to get a console for the sake of a single game. If the 3DO had other titles worth getting, then it would be a more reasonable choice.

But as it stands, the 3DO has nothing.
but hey, it still has more than the CDi

Russman
09-18-2005, 11:02 PM
The Jaguar.

ary incorparated
12-28-2005, 12:55 PM
At least sega had a name so i go with 32X,it had some really good arcade ports and a few decent games.Atari still sound worse Oke I have to admit taht atari 2600 was good for its time,But to base every console on youre roots is just shit.Come on Atari jaguar lived for temepest 2000 and the lynx isnt worth a Trash dump it is just to crap,I loved it a little bit but a year later i found it a shame in my collection The graphics look horrible 16 bit Yeah right it looks like 8 bit,Atari 2600 TM 7800,not impressed Nintedo and sega already released their consoles to set 8 bit with original games and not tempest arkanoid and pacman aggain,all their consoles where fun but not good exept atari 2600.Oke atari lives aggain and they release tempest 2005 and pacman aggain,a,a,a,a, this for just 200 $ with atari,s brand new console The atari Packman<you ask why packman because it comes packed with 100 games youve Never played this system shows you the most upp to date graphics,That the X box 360 couldnt produce(Wouldnt dare to produce.)it shows you 4 bits ingame graphics,Now you see lipp-boy former genesis commercials,that is retarded and old in Atari Packman commercials>B,B,B,B uyy this while its hot and brand new,ATARI for live>Think about that and it maybe reminds you of what history atari had In my uppinion Atari Sucked for live theyre still bringing that atari shit on the marked Atari collection 2005 etc,when does the hurting stop,Thousand times better a 32x than something atari,And then we aint talking about the 3do 3D oooohhhh what shit is that console,To expensive to early released plus saturn and PsX set the 32 bit score.BTW not many know Panasonic as games industry so serves em right the console faded in cow shit.Sega was one of the few companies people did know in that time,next to nintendo and sony. :lol

lordofduct
12-28-2005, 03:40 PM
Well you gotta give one thing to Panasonic with their 3DO

It was developed to be a license free platform. It didn't cost them any licensing fees to develop for the system and release games (which is why so much crap was released on it and one reason you should praise SEGA and the big N for their lic. deal.) Still a [failed] nice gesture towards the developing teams out there.

Anyways, because of that though, it caused the consoles to be high priced because that is what Panny was making their money off of.

ary incorparated
12-28-2005, 05:13 PM
32x is the only one with potential it recalls other system for its games that made it,32X cd games.3DO lived for its ports much games where ported to psx and saturn and what was left exlusive for the console was some crappy games.Jaguar is just pathetic Posting in big Lettertype 64 Bit supreme power etc,It just was made of 4 16 bit processors,The console showed 16 bit graphics and worser sometimes A few times a bit 3D but 64 bit come on,The so called 64 bit games could be ported to saturn and psx whit no problem so certanly not 64 bit plus what games did it have all typical atari games that bore some people to death Come on arkanoid and some polygon shit games smart showing the so called 64 bit graphs on the back of the box,That where just fotos.The controllor looked like a calculator and the jaguar cd wasnt nothing good either.Than still one of my favorite games come whit the 32x Virtua fughter and after burner and those games where well done,sore that there werent more of that games.

David J.
12-28-2005, 05:42 PM
What the heck are you trying to say? I can not read any of your posts, and I'm sure everyone can not either.

atm55
12-28-2005, 07:34 PM
What the heck are you trying to say? I can not read any of your posts, and I'm sure everyone can not either.

Neither can I, but I think you just need to structure your sentences a little better. The ideas seem good, but I just can't understand you...

lordofduct
12-29-2005, 02:43 AM
His grammar is worse then mine... but I kinda get what he is saying.

Oh and the Jaguar was not 4 16-bit processors... it had several different processors all code named.

Tom
consisted of 3 processors for graphic processing
1 32-bit main GPU processor
1 64-bit object processor
1 64-bit blitter processor

Jerry
consisted of 1 32-bit RISC processor for sound and joystick control along with other manipulation for RAM bus speed boosts
was rather good actually

Generic
consisted of 1 16-bit Motorolla 68000 at 13.29 mhz
it's just a faster version of what is in our little genny.


There may be fights over bus speeds through out the system (causing a lot of its bugs). But technically it does have a 64-bit bus in it... two of them. Along with 64-bit RAM accessing. It usually processed at 32-bit though and was handed code from a 16-bit processor...

you know what.

sounds like Windows 9x to me! HAHAHAHAHAHA

ary incorparated
12-29-2005, 11:32 AM
If jaguar shows 64 bit then i would have voted for the jaguar,but it doesnt at all,BTW dont talk so simpel,Oke my english isnt great but still you get what I mean,bTW i am dutch,if you cant read englisch a bit or something than that isnt my problem.I trie to explain it in good english and howcome you still react to my posts,if you couldnt read it you wouldnt better it,BTW do we al have to be smart asses that pretend we cant read a bit of it.BTW logical im dutch,Than youre grammer has to be very worse if youre english or american ,If you compare it to mine ,anyways thanx for praising my grammer youre enlish doesnt seem bad Lordofduct.TRY TO FIGURE THIS OUT ;)

Psy
12-29-2005, 07:24 PM
The problem with the Jaguar was that it had a very convoluted design and was a bitch to program for.

ary incorparated
12-30-2005, 07:40 PM
I played 32x virtua fighter yesterday its a fine title,But whats upp with the game gear sounds,over waved by some thin guitar sounds,Still the Dural stage sounds Fun but the sound is something that scared me in some parts,also did doom.

jesus.arnold
10-18-2007, 07:22 PM
sorry bout posting on an old thread but this whole thing is ridiculous, the 3do easily outclasses these other systems, it's on a completely other level to them!, I can't believe people are saying there's nothing worth buying on the 3do and then saying the jaguar had promise in the same sentence!, anyway here are my reasons for the 3do being the best of the 3

1. the ONLY console to get ports of the first Alone in the Dark and STAR CONTROL 2, which is one of the best games ever made and virtually reason enough to get the 3do alone, don't beleive me? check this, http://top100.ign.com/2003/51-60.html (star control got 53 greatest game ever made, also notice return fire at 56) and http://uk.gamespot.com/gamespot/features/all/greatestgames/p-7.html (star control 2 got into gamespots greatest games of all time)

2. street fighter 2, samurai showdown and road rash were considered some of the best versions for any systems out at the time

3. Need for speed, Return fire and Space Hulk were all created for the 3do originaly, and all gained high critical success

4. most of what the jaguar and 32x had were on the 3do as well anyway! (cannon fodder, theme park, lemmings, Flashback, Syndicate, fifa, bust a move)

5. though not amazing games, immercenary, star fighter, the horde and killing time, were all solid games and received mid 80 percent scores in magazines of the time.

Anyway to wrap up, all the jaguar had was alien vs predator, tempest 2000, and a good port of doom, a bunch of "usual suspect" ports and a controller that was a mess.

All the 32x had was virtua fighter, and a bunch of "usual suspect" ports, as well as it being ridiculously under-powered.

AxelStone
10-18-2007, 08:21 PM
I can't believe people are saying there's nothing worth buying on the 3do

The titles you mentioned were the ONLY good releases for the 3DO, Alone in the Dark on the 3DO is substandard considering the Playstation port. Plus there is a reason 3DO filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy recently, they had bad marketing strategies throughout their entire life cycle as a console developer and a Third Party developer with the Army Men series being their only real accomplishment (the series isn't even that great anyway). The 32X had more than just Virtua Fighter, it had Virtua Racing, Corpse Killer, Night Trap, Star Wars Arcade, Kolibri and a not bad port of Doom to say the least. The 3DO is just not worth owning for the 4 or 5 good titles that were released for it. You are entitled to your own opinion however and I hope you continue to enjoy the 3DO in the future.

Iron Lizard
10-18-2007, 08:45 PM
What ! I Am outraged. How do you justify this indignity?! How could possibly forget the CD-I? It had such a wonderful library.

Genesis Knight
10-18-2007, 09:33 PM
Now that this thread is back from the sands of time, I might as well say that I'd take the 32X.

Demonic Weasel
10-18-2007, 09:41 PM
What the hell is all of this rubbish about the Jaguar and 3D0 sucking? The Jaguar was a fun console, and the 3D0 wasn't that bad.

I don't really like the 32X, actually. Jaguar ftw.

Russman
10-18-2007, 10:03 PM
sorry bout posting on an old thread but this whole thing is ridiculous, the 3do easily outclasses these other systems, it's on a completely other level to them!, I can't believe people are saying there's nothing worth buying on the 3do and then saying the jaguar had promise in the same sentence!, anyway here are my reasons for the 3do being the best of the 3

No it doesn't easily outclass the Jaguar. The Jaguar runs circles around the 3D0 when it comes to rendering a 3D environment. What the 3DO has as a major advantage was that of storage space utilizing CD technology, back then that was a major factor. But the games didn't automatically become better due to CD tech. When you compare the first person shooters on both the 3DO and Jaguar, you can see the Jag games really excelling in both resolution and frame rates. The 3DO performed like absolute SHIT when it came to rendering a FPS.

The Jaguar version of Wolfenstein 3D is still considered to run better on Jaguar than it's original PC version. It has a faster frame rate while maintaining the original soundtrack throughout. Doom was hampered, but still miles ahead of the absolute garbage 32X version, and the only port of the time to actually be programmed by ID.



1. the ONLY console to get ports of the first Alone in the Dark and STAR CONTROL 2, which is one of the best games ever made and virtually reason enough to get the 3do alone, don't beleive me? check this, http://top100.ign.com/2003/51-60.html (star control got 53 greatest game ever made, also notice return fire at 56) and http://uk.gamespot.com/gamespot/features/all/greatestgames/p-7.html (star control 2 got into gamespots greatest games of all time)

IGN completely sucks. But, some of those games are good, I really liked Return Fire and Road Rash and played them frequently on 3DO when they were released.




3. Need for speed, Return fire and Space Hulk were all created for the 3do originaly, and all gained high critical success
Rayman and Tempest 2000 were created for the Jaguar originally. When the PSX picked up steam, Ubisoft decided to start development cross platform on Rayman. Tempest 2000 was an exclusive for awhile and worth owning a Jaguar for, as it has numerous differences to the Saturn version regarding the AI. I'll take these Jaguar games anyday, as they lack load times and aren't shallow gameplay wise. NFS was a great title back then, but it did not hold up well, it's a very small game really, and short. Tempest 2000 is timeless.


4. most of what the jaguar and 32x had were on the 3do as well anyway! (cannon fodder, theme park, lemmings, Flashback, Syndicate, fifa, bust a move)
You forget to point out that the Jaguar versions lack load times. That's a huge deal when we are talking about technology that was using 1x and 2x CD-Rom drive speeds.




Anyway to wrap up, all the jaguar had was alien vs predator, tempest 2000, and a good port of doom, a bunch of "usual suspect" ports and a controller that was a mess.

All the 32x had was virtua fighter, and a bunch of "usual suspect" ports, as well as it being ridiculously under-powered.

lol. Did you join up just to bash the Jaguar and 32X? Anyway, I can't believe a 3DO fan can talk trash about the Jaguar controller with a straight face. As awkward as the Jaguar controller was claimed to be ( I find it really comfortable), the 3DO was the worst of the bunch and very cheap/flimsy! 3DO controllers are notoriously cheap and easily break. If the Jaguar had too many buttons on its controller, you could also point out that the 3DO controller lacked enough buttons during a period where advancing technology should have included moving away from 2 and 3 button control schemes, which Atari had the foresight to do.

The Jaguar controller was also the first to attempt an ergonomic design, alot of time was spent designing a comfortable control pad with grips, and for a first attempt I think it's comfortable to use. The biggest problem was that the keypad was too awkward to access during gameplay. Also, they don't break.

Also a note to any posters thinking the 32X can actually compete with the other two consoles, especially the Jaguar. Come on, if you get the chance, play both systems version of Doom. That's the best way to see just how horrible the 32X attachment was. Jaguar owns it OK? It owns it like the goat owns the Chicago Cubs. If you want to see a polygonal difference, then you can compare Virtua Fighter to Iron Soldier. Iron Soldier beats VF like a red-headed stepchild.

AxelStone
10-18-2007, 10:33 PM
How could possibly forget the CD-I? It had such a wonderful library.

........Wand of Gamelon is enough to keep people away from the CD-I, enough said :)

Iron Lizard
10-18-2007, 10:50 PM
........Wand of Gamelon is enough to keep people away from the CD-I, enough said :)

I put that one on to make my friends laugh.

AxelStone
10-18-2007, 11:05 PM
I put that one on to make my friends laugh.

Wand of Gamelon makes baby Jesus cry

Hidden_Darkness
10-19-2007, 12:08 AM
I voted for the 32x, it may not have had that great of a game selection but I found that I enjoyed it more then the 3do. knuckles chaotix is definately the game that gets played the most by me on it.

the 3do actually had some decent games that were only released in japan but tracking down some of those games is near impossible, so that one places in a close second in my opinion. it had a couple decent fighters released in japan and a few decent fmv games. but nothing really amazing. I think the game I played the most on that was the anime type fmv game called strahl.

as for the atari jaguar, I really don't have anything to say about it since i've never played one. I think back in the mid 90s I only saw a atari jaguar for sale at the stores over here once then it seemed to dissappear.

all 3 of the systems are really very average when it comes to the limited game selection for each.

Iron Lizard
10-19-2007, 12:09 AM
Wand of Gamelon makes baby Jesus cry

Yes and if they have been really bad I put on "Link: The Faces of Evil" after that.

Melf
10-19-2007, 08:33 AM
You guys are missing the real question? Which had the worst fighter?

32X - Cosmic Carnage
3DO- Shadow
Jaguar - Kasumi Ninja

Demonic Weasel
10-19-2007, 11:15 AM
Bah, that's not a question. Kasumi Ninja is capable of murder.

jesus.arnold
10-19-2007, 02:32 PM
Alone in the Dark on the 3DO is substandard considering the Playstation port.

There was no playstation port of Alone in the Dark, it only came out on the pc and 3do, the game known as alone in the dark on the saturn and playstation was actually Alone in the Dark 2 (which is suposed to be inferior to the first, and also got a 3do port anyway)


The 32x had more than just virtua fighter, it had Virtua Racing, Corpse Killer, Night Trap, Star Wars Arcade, Kolibri and a not bad port of Doom to say the least.

Both Corpse Killer and Night Trap came to the 3do as well.


the Army Men series being their only real accomplishment

Heroes of might and magic 2 on the pc is an absolutely mega game made by 3do.http://uk.gamespot.com/gamespot/features/all/greatestgames/p-20.html


I can't believe a 3DO fan can talk trash about the Jaguar controller with a straight face.
:oops: ok i will concede that the 3do's controller is far from perfect, it hasn't got enough buttons and the d-pads are always a bit on the "creaky" side, i haven't had any problems with them breaking though, and i always liked the chaining idea, giving the 3do the ability to have 6-player games.


IGN completely sucks. But, some of those games are good, I really liked Return Fire and Road Rash and played them frequently on 3DO when they were released.

Your Totally right, ign does suck, Star control 2 shoulda' gotten much higher than 53 :haha:


Rayman and Tempest 2000 were created for the Jaguar originally.

Thats cool, I never actually realised that Rayman started out on the jaguar.


The Jaguar runs circles around the 3D0 when it comes to rendering a 3D environment.

This doesn't really matter that much, the problem with the Jaguar was the lack of games, there wasn't enough software to utilise any features the jaguar had over the 3do, which had three dedicated developers working on it.(though this does change my statement about the Jaguar not having any promise, I guess)


Also a note to any posters thinking the 32X can actually compete with the other two consoles, especially the Jaguar. Come on, if you get the chance, play both systems version of Doom. That's the best way to see just how horrible the 32X attachment was.

How good actually is the 32x version of Doom?, I remember that the Jaguar version was famously the best port at the time and the 3do version was notoriously bad, but i don't know much about the 32x version.

Also, Russman, i wanted to say, I Don't hate the jaguar really, it's still leagues ahead of the 32x, I just think that the 3do had a much better software library than the Jaguar, I got a bit carried away cos when i read the thread there were very few pro 3do posts :furious:


You guys are missing the real question? Which had the worst fighter?.

Dude you missed out Way of the warrior! that game was amazingly bad, if you picked the Australian bloke his special power was to throw a knife and say "now thats a knife!" in a psuedo crocodile dundee voice.

Iron Lizard
10-19-2007, 02:45 PM
Kasumi Ninja wins hands down. That game is infamous. Besides Streetfighter 2 and Samurai Showdown made it to 3do and 32x got Mortal Kombat, well if you consider that a good fighter.

http://www.videogamecritic.net/images/jaguar/kasumi_ninja.jpg

GohanX
10-19-2007, 06:42 PM
32X For the win.

The best part about the Jaguar is that I sold it on ebay for more than I paid for it. Best console ever? Maybe.

Blades
10-19-2007, 07:53 PM
My vote went to the 3DO, it was one of the most progressive consoles ever.

It was the first 4+ multiplayer supporting console, first (and last) console to utilize license-free developing, good polygons, and excellent 2D. Plus, I had more fun with that console than the others.

32x is close behind, because of winners like Virtua Racing 32x and Doom (God, the 3DO port sucked ass).

Without doubt, 3DO's graphics engine is greatly more powerful than Jaguar's. Now I'm not insulting Jaguar, it's a great console in my mind, but technically Jaguar cannot process the same amount of polygons as 3DO can. "Tom And Jerry" in the Jaguar were severly bottlenecked by the 68k which made it a bitch to program. Eventually, no one managed to get good polygon graphics out of it.

3DO was pretty weak, but the IDE was so good, games like NFS and Defcon 5 were cranked out. Judging by the games released so far, 3DO has the far better graphics. MAYBE, JUST MAYBE, somewhere in that black toilet seat, there's 3D power. But it'd take another 20 years of digging to get it working and another 20 years to implement it.

What is this about 3DO controllers breaking? I bet you bought some crappy chinese pad and got upset when you banged it with a brick and it cracked in half. The official panasonic pads are of top-notch quality. As for the button issue, they did release a 6-button pad...

And Don't get me started on sound, CD will always sound better than cartridges.

In terms of pure power, 3DO wins. In terms of Games released, 3DO wins. In terms of controller, 3DO wins (If you can track down that damn 6-button pad).

3DO wins.

GohanX
10-19-2007, 08:25 PM
I"ve got a 3do 6 button pad, and no 3do. Maybe someday...

AxelStone
10-19-2007, 10:14 PM
There was no playstation port of Alone in the Dark....Alone in the Dark 2 (which is suposed to be inferior to the first, and also got a 3do port anyway)

I checked up on that and I stand corrected!



Both Corpse Killer and Night Trap came to the 3do as well.

I didn't neccesarily state that they were released ONLY on the 32X I said they were good on the aforementioned console

tomaitheous
10-20-2007, 12:24 AM
I'm not sure which one to pick. I never liked the Jaguar back in the day and laughed my ass off when a friend sold some of his games to buy the thing, then desperately tried to justify it. After leaving his house, I laughed all the way home. Still brings a tear to my eye when I think about it ;) Also, the controllers were sooooooo retarded looking. I couldn't believe Atari was stupid enough use such a lame design. Over sized calculator is right.

Now a days, I'd love to get a Jaguar just because of the complex hardware design (I'm into coding for consoles).

I remember thinking 3DO was decent, but I would never pay even close to what they were asking for it. Another friend did and I wasn't really impressed by the games. I did borrow one time to play Samuri Showdown - that was cool. I vaguely remember something about having to loosen the screws on the controller in order to get diagonals - lame.

When the 32x came out, I thought too little too late. Plus Saturn was already on its way in Japan. It was just another reason why I didn't care for SOA anymore. By 1995, Genesis had just as much crap games as Nintendo on the shelves... and maybe more.

That's the past...

I'd probably have to go with the 32x now. Sure it was a waste to have two kickass SuperH series CPUs in there only to have them stuck wasting time working with a bitmap display (Super)VDP, but it's still cool to see an upgrade for the Genesis. The 32x is probably the most ambitious addon I can think of in console history.

jesus.arnold
10-20-2007, 03:04 PM
Ok, I’m bored and have nothing better to do for the next hour :D , so, The way I see it, the games make a console, so here’s a list of all the good games released for each console (stuff that would score around 80 percent or more at the time) separated into exclusives (most important) to Ports (least important),
(#) – Denotes that the game is considered one of the greatest games ever made
(*) – Denotes that this was considered to be one of the best versions of that game at the time


Console exclusive

3DO- Star Control 2 (#), Alone in the Dark, Immercenary, Killing Time

Jaguar- Iron Soldier, Alien Vs Predator

32X- Tempo, Knuckles Chaotix, Kolibri

Games created for that system but later ported

3DO- Return Fire (#), Space Hulk, Need for Speed (#), The Horde, Star Fighter, Shockwave 2

Jaguar-Tempest 2000(*)(#), Rayman

32X- None that I can think of

Ports (most of which came from the Amiga)

3DO- Street Fighter 2(*)(#), Samurai Showdown(*), Cannon Fodder, Syndicate(#), Flashback, Alone in the Dark 2, Bust-a-Move, Lemmings(#), Road Rash(*), Theme Park(#), Fifa, Madden

Jaguar- Doom(*)(#), Cannon Fodder, Flashback(*), Theme Park(#), Raiden, Sensible Soccer(#), Worms(#), Syndicate(#),

32X- Doom(#), Mortal Kombat 2(#), Fifa, Virtua Fighter, Virtua Racing, Star Wars Arcade

From this there is more high rated 3DO games, If you think I’ve left anything out for any console, post it.

Aarzak
10-21-2007, 04:06 AM
All 3 of these systems have one thing in common:

They were all MASSACRED by a sole, 32 Megabit, grey cartridge in the 1994 holiday season. A pivotal holiday season it was for all three consoles, as it could've made or break them. The last big and eventful holiday season for the 16-Bit era. The competition was simply massacred by "it". The Sonic series had lost momemtum with the big gap between the releases of Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles, and the S&K campeign bombed badly when it should've moved a lot of copies of itself AND Sonic 2 & 3. All Sega had was the 32X.........and "Star Wars Arcade" of all games. I still refuse to believe that that game was Sega's best-seller that holiday season.

Anyways, all 3 consoles failed to pick up that badly-needed momemtum that holiday season and were dealt fatal blows, as by the fall '95 release of the original Playstation they were already dried up and hanging by a thread.

redrum666
10-21-2007, 09:42 AM
if i had to pick out of the 3 i would go with the Jaguar it had a lot more games that i like then the other 2 system on this poll and thats what counts to me

Aarzak
10-21-2007, 07:37 PM
http://library.thinkquest.org/06aug/01856/media/Dkc_snes_boxart.jpg

j_factor
10-21-2007, 08:03 PM
Nintendo are a bunch of liars. Donkey Kong Country is not a 3-D adventure.

jesus.arnold
10-21-2007, 09:27 PM
Star Wars Arcade of all games. I still refuse to believe that that game was Sega's best-seller that holiday season.

I've added it to the list.

AxelStone
10-22-2007, 09:11 PM
DK Country is a crappy, unbalanced pseudo 3D bore-a-thon with little innovation other than the slightly attractive graphics. Controls are clunky and basic, music is the only saving grace. Rare sacrificed good, solid level design for infuriating barrell puzzles to make levels last longer. A better SNES platformer?; Super Mario World, Yoshi's Island, Contra: Alien Rebels (even though this is a run and gun it is still better than Donkey Kong). Spleen vented. Nintendo were just scared to death of Sony's immediate domination and decided to lie to everyone. Anyway, we all know what happened.

Aarzak
10-23-2007, 02:18 AM
Despite that, it sold by the truckload and got almost if not perfect scores from every damn mag. Poor "Sonic & Knuckles" got completely swallowed up by the DKC marketing, million-selling machine, probably leading Sega to push it's 32X launch lineup as their meal ticket that holiday season. (Star Wars Arcade, Doom, Virtua Racing Deluxe..........the trifecta right there.)

AxelStone
10-24-2007, 07:56 PM
Unfortunately yes DK did sell like hot cakes. Virtua Racing and Doom are far more addictive however.

j_factor
10-24-2007, 11:26 PM
Virtua Racing and Doom are no better than Donkey Kong Country.

You know, Genesis itself had a great year in 1994. I don't know which is worse -- that Donkey Kong Country eclipsed it in sales and the public mind, or that Sega put more faith in their crappy launch library for their crappy add-on.

AxelStone
11-08-2007, 04:09 AM
Why not put faith in something that could potentially bolster flagging support for your main cash cow?
Anyway if Sega stuck with the 32X and in some parrallel universe it was mega successful we could have seen some great releases.

j_factor
11-09-2007, 03:27 PM
Why not put faith in something that could potentially bolster flagging support for your main cash cow?

The idea that 32x could have bolstered Genesis support is silly. It did nothing but harm.

Black_Tiger
11-09-2007, 09:59 PM
If I were to try and rank them unbiasedly based on available software by my taste, it'd go:

1: 3D0 (Lucienne's Quest, Policenauts, SSFIIT)
2: 32X (Doom, Virtua Racing, Virtua Fighter)
3: Jaguar (Doom, Wolfenstein)

But the 32X will always be my favorite.




The idea that 32x could have bolstered Genesis support is silly. It did nothing but harm.


He said "potentially". If the 32X launched with Super Mario Galaxy, Halo 3 and GTA IV, it probably would've done better than "it did".




Nintendo were just scared to death of Sony's immediate domination and decided to lie to everyone. Anyway, we all know what happened.

A console maker lying? That must've been the first and last time. At least Sega was above such dirty tricks. ;)

http://www.superpcenginegrafx.com/img/sonic3dblast.jpg

nissling
11-10-2007, 03:51 PM
Hmm, I guess 32X.

j_factor
11-10-2007, 05:26 PM
He said "potentially". If the 32X launched with Super Mario Galaxy, Halo 3 and GTA IV, it probably would've done better than "it did".

Well, of course, but realistically, I don't think 32x had the potential to bolster support for Genesis. Even if 32x had been moderately popular, it only would've been so with existing Genesis owners. I don't think it would've had the ability to attract new Genesis owners or encourage third parties to make more Genesis (not 32x) games. And even with that sunny scenario, you still would've had the split market problem.

It's also worth noting that Genesis was pretty damn well supported in 1994. It wasn't in any need of bolstering until after the 32x came along and did its damage.

I'm still of the opinion that 32x really lacked purpose. It wasn't as powerful as Saturn, even worse to program for, and it used (basically) the same cartridges as Genesis. What point was there ever in making a game for 32x? It's no wonder that the system's library consists of a small handful of original first-party offerings and a bunch of ports.


A console maker lying? That must've been the first and last time. At least Sega was above such dirty tricks. ;)

http://www.superpcenginegrafx.com/img/sonic3dblast.jpg

Sonic 3D Blast really is 3D, though. I mean, not in the sense that most of us think, but it still qualifies. It has "3D graphics" and the gameplay is 3D since your movement is tracked on three different axises (axes?), therefore having three dimensions.

tomaitheous
11-10-2007, 08:42 PM
I think j_factor is right on the money. The Genesis was strong in 1994, Sega should have been putting resource into the Saturn software in preparation instead of the 32x. The time difference between the 32x and Saturn was what, 8 months? If the 32x was released in mid '93, then that might have been different - dunno.

The 32x was really lacking and hurt the Sega imo. The 32x is cool now, that all of this is in the past and that we might see some demos or home brew development for it in the future.

Aarzak
11-10-2007, 09:33 PM
Well, of course, but realistically, I don't think 32x had the potential to bolster support for Genesis. Even if 32x had been moderately popular, it only would've been so with existing Genesis owners. I don't think it would've had the ability to attract new Genesis owners or encourage third parties to make more Genesis (not 32x) games. And even with that sunny scenario, you still would've had the split market problem.

It's also worth noting that Genesis was pretty damn well supported in 1994. It wasn't in any need of bolstering until after the 32x came along and did its damage.

I'm still of the opinion that 32x really lacked purpose. It wasn't as powerful as Saturn, even worse to program for, and it used (basically) the same cartridges as Genesis. What point was there ever in making a game for 32x? It's no wonder that the system's library consists of a small handful of original first-party offerings and a bunch of ports.

http://www.superpcenginegrafx.com/img/sonic3dblast.jpg



Sonic 3D Blast really is 3D, though. I mean, not in the sense that most of us think, but it still qualifies. It has "3D graphics" and the gameplay is 3D since your movement is tracked on three different axises (axes?), therefore having three dimensions.

Dammit, must you remind me of the $65 my father wasted in vain buying me that game for Christmas 1996? I never did get the $65 worth from that measly cart. The intro had blown me away even before I actually saw it (crisp pics on GameFan) and it did have some of the Genny's nicest pre-rendered graphics, but the game wasn't so good. The Saturn version with it's superior graphics and sound also distracted me from the cart. It did have what I still consider to be the most unique Stage Select process ever: just slightly nudge and/or move the cart, not enough to corrupt the game, and a screen will come up Congratulating you for finding the secret Stage Select. TRUE STORY. It was random but I had done it numerous times. So much I damn near wasted away the top part of my copy's label. If you have a 3D Blast cart, go ahead and experiment.

Genesis Knight
11-10-2007, 09:54 PM
Yeah, the S3DB 'bump' cheat is one of the wierdest ever.

Aarzak
11-10-2007, 11:17 PM
I got this off of an old "Digital Press" forum thread in which I originally found out about this oddity:

This is well-known. You see, in the Genesis, the first 256 bytes of the ROM hold the 68k exception vectors. In Sonic 3D Blast, all of the normally unused vectors are set to point to the level select routine. So, thus, when you bump the cart and cause the game to crash, it jumps to the level select. Most games have these extra vectors set to an infinite loop routine, so that the game would just appear to "freeze". Sonic 1 has some actual error handlers that will display a small amount debugging information on the screen. Since it just happened to the original poster without any sort of intentional cart jostling, it sounds like it might be the cart going bad.

You can also get to the level select with the BARACUDA code, but it doesn't show the "Congratulations!" screen.

On another note, I remember trying to preserve that game's damn cardboard box so much soon after I got the game, but it got damaged too quick and I finally gave in to temptation and threw it away. It had pretty sweet box art as well, much better than the one advertised on mail order print ads throughout 1996-1997 (the art you see on the game's cart label).

Back on-topic..............well I think we've discussed everything that can be discussed about the 32X now haven't we?

Psy
11-12-2007, 10:43 PM
I think j_factor is right on the money. The Genesis was strong in 1994, Sega should have been putting resource into the Saturn software in preparation instead of the 32x. The time difference between the 32x and Saturn was what, 8 months? If the 32x was released in mid '93, then that might have been different - dunno.

The 32x was really lacking and hurt the Sega imo. The 32x is cool now, that all of this is in the past and that we might see some demos or home brew development for it in the future.
Yhea, I think Sega should have put its entire hardware staff on the Saturn and not have wasted man power on the 32X, then Sega might have gotten a decent development kit out in time.

Melf
11-13-2007, 02:43 PM
Also a note to any posters thinking the 32X can actually compete with the other two consoles, especially the Jaguar. Come on, if you get the chance, play both systems version of Doom. That's the best way to see just how horrible the 32X attachment was. Jaguar owns it OK? It owns it like the goat owns the Chicago Cubs. If you want to see a polygonal difference, then you can compare Virtua Fighter to Iron Soldier. Iron Soldier beats VF like a red-headed stepchild.

You're right about the others, but Doom 32X isn't a good choice to make a fair comparison. It was rushed out the door in order to make the launch, and it got completely butchered during development. If you want a true example of the 32X's power for comparison, I'd try something like Darxide. I'm sure both people who own a copy can attest to how it pushes the hardware. :p

Joe Redifer
11-13-2007, 08:30 PM
Compare Iron Soldier to Metal Head. Iron Soldier has no texture mapping. Just solid colored rectangles here and there. And Fight for Life pales compared to Virtua Fighter 32X.

j_factor
11-13-2007, 10:34 PM
Jaguar never had any really talented, dedicated programmers working on it, though. I mean, the same can kind of be said about a lot of systems, but Jaguar really didn't have much of any "serious" development. So it's hard to compare. Virtua Fighter was a well-done port of a high-profile, high-budget arcade game developed by a team known for technical prowess. Fight for Life was some crap by a few dudes who didn't know what they were doing and had no money.

Psy
11-14-2007, 06:49 PM
Jaguar never had any really talented, dedicated programmers working on it, though. I mean, the same can kind of be said about a lot of systems, but Jaguar really didn't have much of any "serious" development. So it's hard to compare. Virtua Fighter was a well-done port of a high-profile, high-budget arcade game developed by a team known for technical prowess. Fight for Life was some crap by a few dudes who didn't know what they were doing and had no money.
But the Jaguar CPU was pathetically weak only a 68000 @ 13.3 MHz with the video and sound processors of the Jaguar are @ 26.59 MHz. The weak CPU in the Jaguar was a huge bottleneck.

Atari though they could just get the sub-processors to do most the work but it didn't work for two major reasons Atari overlooked. The first problem is the Jaguar development kit made the early Saturn development kit look good this meant it was hard for developers to property make use of the Jaguar hardware. Atari also overlooked the fact that 3D games require more CPU power for the game engine itself (which is run of the primary processor), this means the graphic processor has to wait for the game engine running off the weaker 68000 to tell it where everything moved to.

Black_Tiger
11-14-2007, 08:34 PM
Saying that the 32X couldn't compete with the Jaguar is like saying that the Genesis couldn't compete with the SNES.

Regardless of hardware potential, its all about software. Whatever the potential of the Jaguar or the 32X, the 32X got several quality games that can't be matched on Jaguar and has better examples of 3D graphics.

But that still doesn't mean that people will buy the "better" system(however anyone judges better).

In theory the Playstation 3 can't be beat, but its in last place.

Aarzak
11-17-2007, 03:55 AM
3DO>32X>Jaguar. In terms of popularity (as little as it may have been for all three), sales and third-party support.

The Atari Jaguar was just a disaster from the inside out. Most bottlenecked, flawed console architecture I've ever heard about.

Olly h
11-17-2007, 07:59 AM
Hello,im a new member here and ive been reading your discussions on this 32x vs 3DO vs jaguar debate. Ive owned all these consoles in the past and i can honestly say that the 3DO was the most enjoyable out of the 3 played. I can understand that your all pretty much hardcore sega fans but the 32X was a complete disaster and was a huge embarassment to SEGA and the library of games were weak and mostly poor conversions. The games were nothing special. Most of the games like sega cd were just updates on Mega Drive games.

The 3DO at the time had a stupid high price and im not gonna argue with that, i got mine when 3DO was sort of dying down, got it at reasonable price from Special Reserve any UK posters will remember them!. I had Space Hulk, Killing time, SSF2T, Road Rash, Hell, Flashback, Need for speed, Fifa, Rebel assualt, samurai showdown etc..all the popular games but i also had Doom the worst conversion ever but did have great music. I loved this console, it was a great part of my child hood. The jaguar i had for a short while, my friend sold it off to me, was a ok console. The pad was a knightmare pretty much like a telephone the D-pad was too stiff aswell. I dont remember that many decents comes for it, it came with cybermorph which was ok but nothing special and of course the classics AVP and Doom. But it wasnt worth buying a jaguar to play just a couple of games.

You may all disagree with me but the 3DO was the most successful out of the 3 and isnt regarded as a complete disaster like the 32X and the jaguar.Yeah the 3DO didnt last that long but it did have a great selection of games that were ported to the saturn and PSX.

tomaitheous
11-17-2007, 07:54 PM
But the Jaguar CPU was pathetically weak only a 68000 @ 13.3 MHz with the video and sound processors of the Jaguar are @ 26.59 MHz. The weak CPU in the Jaguar was a huge bottleneck.

Atari though they could just get the sub-processors to do most the work but it didn't work for two major reasons Atari overlooked. The first problem is the Jaguar development kit made the early Saturn development kit look good this meant it was hard for developers to property make use of the Jaguar hardware. Atari also overlooked the fact that 3D games require more CPU power for the game engine itself (which is run of the primary processor), this means the graphic processor has to wait for the game engine running off the weaker 68000 to tell it where everything moved to.

And yet it was able to do Alien VS Predator. Of the three systems(and with it's bottle necks) it's probably the most advanced. I'm not much of an atari fan though. 3DO had better games.. going by memory.

Dirt Ball Gamer
01-16-2008, 04:13 AM
I think even with the vast majority of jaguar games sucking horribly that the very few games that were good were better than anything on 32x. AVP, tempest, etc. There are probably 10 more decent games out of however many the jaguar had than on 32x. Its not really that fair since there were only 30 whatever games on 32x, so it has the higher percentage but. 3do probably does take them both out tho. I'll probably track one down when i go through my midlife crisis.

lordofduct
01-16-2008, 04:53 AM
3 years later, and I still stand by my vote.

Jaguar is still an obvious no, it just doesn't have anything to play on it. Bleh... AVP isn't enough to grab my attention.

3DO on the other hand, well I owned it back when I voted, and I still own it today. I NEVER play it, finding a game good enough to play is just difficult. There is so many pieces of crap on the system, and if you had to pay hard cash for these games you just feel screwed. Yeah there were good games, but finding them was like finding tacos in cow shit... you find it sooner or later, but it's still covered in cow shit.

Onto the 32X. I stated 3 years ago that it too was pretty much shit. The only reason I voted for it (and this was prior to the poll even being added... I would had probably gone with none if that were the case) was because it's the only 1 of the 3 that I ever play. And I like how cute it is on top of my genny and SCD model 1s. There are games I actually like for it, and also when you look through such a small catalog it is very easy to locate the good ones with out leaving smelling like cow shit.

Of course, some of these good titles are on other consoles, but you know what? I wouldn't buy them for the other consoles. It's kinda like how I own Ecco 1 & 2, Earthworm Jim SE, and a couple other games on the Sega CD. Yeah I could of had them on the Genesis as well, but why!? I already bought them, and they are just as freakin' fun!

mick_aka
01-16-2008, 10:58 AM
32X by a mile, and I own all 3.
However the Jaguar Doom port PWNS and AvP is awesome.
The 3DO was an impulse buy I regret to this day, more so than my Phillips CDi.

MN12BIRD
02-02-2008, 08:24 PM
I liked the 3DO for Alone in the Dark, Need for Speed and Road Rash. It was an impressive system in it's day but I never played a 32X in it's day. I didn't know anyone who had either but I rented the 3DO many times.

jesus.arnold
03-29-2008, 03:48 PM
32X by a mile, and I own all 3.
However the Jaguar Doom port PWNS and AvP is awesome.
The 3DO was an impulse buy I regret to this day, more so than my Phillips CDi.
LOL, if this site wasn't so 32X biased the 32X would be utterly buried by the 3DO and the Jaguar, and if you own all 3 and think otherwise then you must have very few 3DO games.

The CDI was a complete joke and was not anywhere near the 3DO even the 32X made that console look good which is really saying something.

Joe Redifer
03-29-2008, 07:02 PM
I'd rather play Space Harrier on my 32X than that Super Street Fighter 2 abomination on the 3DO.

twoquickcapri
03-30-2008, 03:03 PM
Im going with the Atari Jaguar. Alien vs Predator, Atari Karts, BattleMorph, Defender 2000, Doom, Iron Soldier, Iron Soldier 2, Missile Command 3D, Pitfall: The Mayan Adventure, Power Drive Rally, Raiden, Rayman, Super Burnout, Tempest 2000, Ultra Vortek, Vid Grid, Wolfenstein 3d, Zero 5, Zool 2, Worms, and Battlesphere are all great game. Both the 3DO and 32x have there games too but I like the jaguar more.

tomitomou
03-30-2008, 04:44 PM
The 32x is the only add-on for which you had to be rich in order to play some games.
Ex : Suppreme Warrior = Megadrive + Mega-CD + 32x ...

dragonboy
03-30-2008, 05:07 PM
The 32x is the only add-on for which you had to be rich in order to play some games.
Ex : Suppreme Warrior = Megadrive + Mega-CD + 32x ...

what about Sega CD?

BlowMyCartridge
03-30-2008, 06:31 PM
Okay, let me just throw this out there. 3DO has THE best FMV games.

Joe Redifer
03-30-2008, 07:13 PM
Ummm... you had to be waaaaay richer to own a 3DO. The thing debuted at $700 frickin' dollars. Even when the price dropped, it lived at $500 nearly until it died.

Sega Genesis/$99 + 32X/$150 + Sega CD/$200 (I think) = $450.




3DO did not have the best FMV games because it did not have Road Avenger. No Road Avenger = fail.

BlowMyCartridge
03-30-2008, 08:55 PM
Pretty sure SegaCD was at least 250.

I rented my 3DO from the video store. I think I was the only one who rented the damn thing.

Snow Job
Star Rangers
Crime Patrol

AMERICAN FUCKIN' LASER MAKES THE BEST GAMES EVER!

Joe Redifer
03-30-2008, 09:19 PM
Nah, they should have been called American Lazy Games. The 3DO did have porn FMV's though. Should I post a clip?

dragonboy
04-04-2008, 05:44 PM
Nah, they should have been called American Lazy Games. The 3DO did have porn FMV's though. Should I post a clip?

Only if the dirtiest body parts aren't shown

Joe Redifer
04-04-2008, 07:03 PM
Nope, they made sure to not show any of that. 3DO owners were not e

jesus.arnold
07-21-2008, 10:33 AM
I'd rather play Space Harrier on my 32X than that Super Street Fighter 2 abomination on the 3DO.I really don't get this :confused:, the 3DO version is clearly leaps and bounds ahead of the Megadrive/Genesis version and the SNES version.

Anyway, I've been checking out these consoles a lot more recently which reminded me of this thread, I decided to update the list I made, notice that both the 3DO and Jaguar lists increased by a bit but the 32X stayed the same

here’s a list of all the good games released for each console (stuff that would score around 80 percent or more at the time) separated into exclusives (most important) to Ports (least important),
(#) – Denotes that the game is considered one of the greatest games ever made
(*) – Denotes that this was considered to be one of the best versions of that game at the time


Console exclusive

3DO- Star Control 2 (#), Alone in the Dark, Immercenary, Killing Time, The Incredible Machine

Jaguar- Iron Soldier, Alien Vs Predator, Zool 2

32X- Tempo, Knuckles Chaotix, Kolibri

Games created for that system but later ported

3DO- Return Fire (#), Space Hulk, Need for Speed (#), The Horde, Star Fighter, Shockwave 2, Battle Sport, Lucienne's Quest, Gex, Road Rash (*)

Jaguar-Tempest 2000 (*)(#), Rayman

32X- None that I can think of

Ports (most of which came from the Amiga)

3DO- Street Fighter 2 (*)(#), Samurai Showdown (*), Cannon Fodder, Syndicate (#), Flashback, Alone in the Dark 2, Bust-a-Move, Lemmings (#), Theme Park (#), Fifa, Madden, Another World (*)(#), Wing Commander III, Soccer Kid

Jaguar- Doom (*)(#), Cannon Fodder, Flashback (*), Theme Park(#), Raiden, Sensible Soccer (#), Worms (#), Syndicate (#), Humans (Evolution Dino Dudes), Soccer Kid

32X- Doom (#), Mortal Kombat 2 (#), Fifa, Virtua Fighter, Virtua Racing, Star Wars Arcade

MN12BIRD
07-21-2008, 10:42 AM
Why is Road Rash a port wasn't the 3DO version exclusive from EA until later ported to the PSX and Saturn?? I think the 3DO version is the original as EA created for the 3DO.

jesus.arnold
07-21-2008, 11:33 AM
Why is Road Rash a port wasn't the 3DO version exclusive from EA until later ported to the PSX and Saturn?? I think the 3DO version is the original as EA created for the 3DO.
oh yeah, you're totally right, must've put it in the wrong place by accident, i've rectified the mistake now.

otaku
07-21-2008, 12:35 PM
3D0 need for speed and road rash are most excellent and one of them at least is still with us today. 32x can have second place.

MN12BIRD
07-21-2008, 01:04 PM
Yeah I agree I would play NFS or Road Rash on 3DO before I played anything on 32X! Both amazing games and I believe better than the ports on the newer systems (Saturn/PSX) that came out over a full year later!

gamevet
07-21-2008, 04:53 PM
Console exclusive

3DO- Star Control 2 (#), Alone in the Dark, Immercenary, Killing Time, The Incredible Machine

Jaguar- Iron Soldier, Alien Vs Predator, Zool 2

32X- Tempo, Knuckles Chaotix, Kolibri




3DO: Guardian War! (http://www.mobygames.com/game/3do/guardian-war)
Crash N' Burn (http://www.mobygames.com/game/3do/crash-n-burn_)

Jaguar: I-WAR, Cybermorph and Powerdrive Rally were considered solid titles for the system.

32X: Zaxxon Motherbase 2000 and Shadow Squadron deserve the nod as well.

Tanegashima
07-21-2008, 05:09 PM
If you have a 3DO, Saturn or Playstation the Jaguar is about as useless as tits on a bull. Rayman was best on the Saturn, Flashback is just as good on the 3DO, Raiden...eh you got the Raiden Project for Playstation. There isn't one title on the Jaguar that makes it worth owning, not a single one because all them were on other systems.

Not to mention, if the system does have a superior port of ANYTHING then the controller voids out whatever "superior" version it did have...

gamevet
07-21-2008, 05:13 PM
If you have a 3DO, Saturn or Playstation the Jaguar is about as useless as tits on a bull. Rayman was best on the Saturn, Flashback is just as good on the 3DO, Raiden...eh you got the Raiden Project for Playstation. There isn't one title on the Jaguar that makes it worth owning, not a single one because all them were on other systems.

The Jag had a couple of titles, but yeah most of the good stuff was ported, or on other systems. You could almost say the same for the 3DO though.

mick_aka
07-21-2008, 05:33 PM
Alien vs Predator on the Jag, whylst far from the greatest FPS of it's time, is seriously enjoyable to play and easilly worth owning the console for IMHO.

Black_Tiger
07-21-2008, 06:08 PM
There isn't one title on the Jaguar that makes it worth owning, not a single one because all them were on other systems.


It's still fun to play different versions of games even if they aren't teh best evar(!). Bad ports can be even more entertaining than just another decent port of a game you've already played to death.

Do you avoid all Genesis games that are ports but aren't the best version to date (most arcade games)?

Tanegashima
07-21-2008, 06:12 PM
It's still fun to play different versions of games even if they aren't teh best evar(!). Bad ports can be even more entertaining than just another decent port of a game you've already played to death.

Do you avoid all Genesis games that are ports but aren't the best version to date (most arcade games)?

Yes, yes I do.

My point was that the Jaguar is an expensive proposition...100 + bucks for a boxed one, the games are fairly expensive too and the better versions are cheaper on other systems so it really is only for die hard collectors than gamers...

(and no I don't really...)

jesus.arnold
07-21-2008, 08:31 PM
anyone got Worms on the Jaguar? I was wondering if you could use that big numberpad to choose weapons, that would be kinda' useful.

108 Stars
07-21-2008, 09:19 PM
A Jag would be nice....at least it LOOKS nice on the outside.
Some lucky guy even got a developement system for the Atari PANTHER in the mid/end 90s, when Atari was bankrupt...there was an auction with stuff from Atari Germany and that Panther dev kit was sold for about 15 Euros...imagine that!

MN12BIRD
07-21-2008, 10:54 PM
I would say the Jag got the best port of Wolfenstein 3D in some ways better than the PC version because it has the extra rocket launcher and flame thrower and the higher resolution sprites from the Mac version.

Tanegashima
07-22-2008, 03:09 AM
I would say the Jag got the best port of Wolfenstein 3D in some ways better than the PC version because it has the extra rocket launcher and flame thrower and the higher resolution sprites from the Mac version.

The 3DO version has every level/all 10 games...so I dunno, I think the 3DO's is more bang for the buck.

MN12BIRD
07-22-2008, 09:19 AM
Oh yeah I forgot the 3DO version was also really good. I have a copy but I can't get it to work on FreeDO and it won't play in my real 3DO until I get some better CDRs!

Tanegashima
07-22-2008, 07:21 PM
remember, not all games work properly in all 3DOs...the only model that I haven't had compatibility issues with is the FZ-10, all the others like the Goldstar won't run many of the later games for the 3DO.

Which is total absolute proof that Trip Hawkens f-d up the 3DO more than any one person.

MN12BIRD
07-22-2008, 07:36 PM
I have an FZ-1 that works great on all my real games but I have really cheap Kodak CDRs and haven't been able to try any others yet for the games I have downloaded.

j_factor
07-23-2008, 01:33 AM
Stop pirating. :p

bones
08-05-2008, 07:18 AM
I really do like the 32x, there are some great titles on it, but seriously...we're comparing a Genesis add-on with limited support to 2 other full blown consoles? Voted for Jaguar, great game library Tempest 2k, AvP, Iron Soldier, etc and there's been some good effort to get unreleased games out there for people to enjoy.

dragonboy
08-05-2008, 02:10 PM
Do the Jaguar, 32X, and 3DO have any Neo Geo like games? especially like the later shmups and run 'n' gun games on the system? There is not much information about Jaguar and 3DO on the internet, and I don't remember them at all when I was little. I doubt they were selling them at Toys R Us, because I used to go to Toys R Us whenever I bought new games when I was little, and I only remember them selling Super Nintendo, Sega Genesis, Game Boy, Playstation, and Nintendo 64.

nissling
08-05-2008, 04:13 PM
Now, I haven't played Atari Jaguar but I have both 3Do and 32X. The 32X is a nice console. The 3Do isn't you know "Fun as hell" of something like that. It's just....ok. Not more.

j_factor
08-06-2008, 12:41 AM
Do the Jaguar, 32X, and 3DO have any Neo Geo like games? especially like the later shmups and run 'n' gun games on the system? There is not much information about Jaguar and 3DO on the internet, and I don't remember them at all when I was little. I doubt they were selling them at Toys R Us, because I used to go to Toys R Us whenever I bought new games when I was little, and I only remember them selling Super Nintendo, Sega Genesis, Game Boy, Playstation, and Nintendo 64.

They sold Jaguar and 3DO (and 32x) at Toys R Us. You may not remember them because they lacked longevity. The 32x basically lasted for one year, and its total library is 34 games, so it never had more than half a shelf in the game section. 32x had a tiny launch library at the end of '94, games steadily trickled in '95, and by the time Spider-Man was released at the beginning of 1996, many stores were already liquidating their 32x stock. The Jaguar is a similar situation, except it had a slightly longer life and a slightly larger library. The 3DO did better, but the thing had no marketing support. Your young mind might also have confused the 3DO section for Sega CD games, as they usually put the two right next to each other, and they had similar packaging.

Toys R Us was always good about carrying pretty much every system. They even had Pico for a while.

Aarzak
08-06-2008, 06:09 AM
Check this circa-1995 ad for the Jaguar, which was released near the impending launch of the original PlayStation in September 1995, and targeting the already-released Saturn as well. Hilarious stuff, though I reckon that by then the Jaguar was hopeless in the public's eye. It's debatable IMO as to which of the three "transitional" 32-Bit consoles was most and less viable at this point, as all eyes were on the Saturn and PlayStation. I really felt sorry for the Jag especially, with Atari releasing that long-overdue CD add-on AFTER the launch of the Playstation and Saturn. Ain't nobody cared by that point. The 32X was amongst the first of these three systems to die in late 1995, with its last release ("Spider-Man": Web of Fire") coming in the early months of 1996. Atari canned the Jaguar sometime in the Spring of 1996 when they announced their exit from the video-game console market for good, and merged with that now-defunct hard-drive manufacturer. 3DO died not too long after, when the company canned their overhyped next-generation console, "M2" and sold the technology off, also canning the 3DO in the process. Sad how all three only lasted half of the lifetime of the Genesis & SNES at most. "Transitional" consoles indeed.

rcgamer
08-06-2008, 09:37 AM
I realize this is a sega site, but lets get real, the 32x is nowhere near as good as the 3do. Yes the price sucked, but the system itself was the best technology available at the time.
The 3do had the best version of SFII turbo, the best Madden game hands down at the time, Gex, Captain Quazar, Return Fire, need for speed, the best version of Road Rash, Cannon Fodder, as well as the ones already mentioned in this thread. For a system that only lasted a couple of years it also had hundreds of games. Yes you can say that most were crap but even if 80% were crap that still means it had tons more good games than the 32x.

Tanegashima
08-06-2008, 03:42 PM
I realize this is a sega site, but lets get real, the 32x is nowhere near as good as the 3do. Yes the price sucked, but the system itself was the best technology available at the time.
The 3do had the best version of SFII turbo, the best Madden game hands down at the time, Gex, Captain Quazar, Return Fire, need for speed, the best version of Road Rash, Cannon Fodder, as well as the ones already mentioned in this thread. For a system that only lasted a couple of years it also had hundreds of games. Yes you can say that most were crap but even if 80% were crap that still means it had tons more good games than the 32x.

You're absolutely right, on this list the 3DO rocks! The 32X is cool to own for me because I like having all the Sega systems, but the 3DO is a pretty cool system. Captain Quazar, Return Fire and Star Control are reason alone to own this system. What I find crazy is for a system that only sold 500,000 units worldwide by mid 1995 (out for 2 years) the library was MASSIVE, this game has a ridiculously huge library and there definitely a bunch of worthwhile games, many very inexpensive. Road Rash is awesome, but it's real repetitive...

I have an awesome article from Game Players January 1995 (I kept most of my mags from back then...) called The Gloves Are Off! and it has interviews with Sega, 3DO, Nintendo, Atari, and the editor bashes Nintendo and predicts the Saturn will destroy it. I really should scan it for y'all...it's an awwesome read. The predictions are great, the N64 is still called the Ultra 64...neeto stuff. EDIT: As I'm reading through it, it also has a review of Snatcher and gives it an 80% I love nostalgia...

j_factor
08-07-2008, 12:41 AM
The thing about 3DO that devalues it for me is that so many of its games were ported to Playstation and/or Saturn. But I'd still rank it above 32x and Jaguar.

Tanegashima
08-13-2008, 01:17 PM
Yeah but it's most unique games weren't...I love it, honestly I'll say it, I love the 3DO system. It is awesome. The games are so damn weird, they come in ridiculous boxes, it was horribly marketed but nonetheless awesome. It's region free, it's really cool. The only thing that sucks is most 3rd party controllers don't work right and that 3 button controller is useless for 2-D fighting games which is why I don't have any for it...

The 32X is a novelty for me, strictly useless but I can say I own every Sega system released in N.A. and look down my nose at those who can't.

Owning a jaguar to me, would be like finding a dog turd in my yard: It would sit there, turn gray, everyone would be annoyed by it. The only difference would be I don't think I'd avoid stepping on the Jaguar.

I do love Atari 8-bit systems like the 2600-7800 but the Jaguar is a total, expensive abomination.

I might add, I believe the 3DO library is actually larger than the 32X and Jaguar combined...which is a plus. There are over 220 games for the 3DO and just under/over 100 for the 32X/Jaguar combined and only if you count Jaguar CD's...

tomaitheous
08-13-2008, 02:12 PM
What I find crazy is for a system that only sold 500,000 units worldwide by mid 1995 (out for 2 years) the library was MASSIVE, this game has a ridiculously huge library and there definitely a bunch of worthwhile games, many very inexpensive. Road Rash is awesome, but it's real repetitive...

Probably because at $700, the owner was more than likely bound to buy whatever they could for that system to justify the @#$!'ing purchase - haha. Guaranteed user base ;) Two types of people bought that system back in the day - the rich and the suckers.



the 3do had the best version of SFII turbo
Didn't it lack multiple layered scrolls or was it just line scrolls (or both!). Getting diagonals out of the control - you had mod the controller or loosen the screws (my friend had one).

gamevet
08-13-2008, 04:17 PM
Didn't it lack multiple layered scrolls or was it just line scrolls (or both!). Getting diagonals out of the control - you had mod the controller or loosen the screws (my friend had one).

There was an official 6 button controller for the game. I remember seeing one in a Walmart clearance bin about 8 years ago, along with the game.

Tanegashima
08-13-2008, 06:23 PM
Doesn't work worth crap either...the Saturn had the BEST SF ports...

Aarzak
08-13-2008, 08:32 PM
Despite not being arcade-perfect (and yes, the mags noted this and pointed out the graphical flaws), the 3DO port of Super Turbo was THE home version of Street Fighter II to have in 1994-1995, at least until the PS1 & Saturn received their first SF home ports in late 1995 ("Street Fighter Alpha") and when the release of "Street Fighter Collection" mostly supplanted the purpose of the 3DO version.

Iron Lizard
08-13-2008, 08:33 PM
I remember them making a big deal of that when it came out.

Strider
08-15-2008, 11:22 AM
The worst game in the 32X library is better than the best game in the Jaguar library.

jesus.arnold
08-15-2008, 07:01 PM
The worst game in the 32X library is better than the best game in the Jaguar library.
I'm sorry but that just isn't true :?

In fact recently I've been playing some of the 32X games constantly mentioned and reading loads of magazines from the time and I was surprised, to be honest virtually none of the games I put for 32X should be on the list I made at all, all these "classics" you guys keep mentioning such as Kolibri and Chaotix are mediocre at best and were never thought of as being anything else, the magazines of the time gave them 70% style scores when they were lucky.

MN12BIRD
08-15-2008, 07:41 PM
Wolfenstien3D on the Jag is one of the best console ports to date! DooM has no music but its a bigger screen and the graphics look better IIRC also enemies could face away from you.

jesus.arnold
08-15-2008, 07:54 PM
here's a summary of the consoles

3DO - great console, quite a few gems but way too expensive

Jaguar - A few worthwhile games, not so expensive, iffy controller design, I'd say it was half decent, a little bit of fun could be had with it at least

32X - completely worthless, no games worth playing at all, ugly, in fact it also gets minus points for making Sega look bad

Joe Redifer
08-15-2008, 08:50 PM
Here's a much more intelligent summary:

3DO - Initial price way too expensive. Wimpy 3 button controller (that Capcom fightig pad is a joke). Decent graphics at times, could not do 240p if its life depended on it. Slow as hell. Very long load times. Some great games here and there, but could be counted on one hand.

Jaguar - Hard to find in the stores initially. Crap games except for maybe 2 or 3 at the VERY most. Graphics were unimpressive for the most part. One of the worst and cheapest-feeling controllers ever. Easy to become very bored very fast.

32X - Not too expensive. Cleaned up Genesis graphics. A couple GREAT arcade ports (Space Harrier and After Burner) which were done nowhere NEAR as well anywhere else at the time. Some other great games included Virtua Racing. Library mostly unimpressive, though. Sound was rarely taken advantage of. Looks kind of stupid sitting in ANY Genesis model.

tomaitheous
08-15-2008, 09:44 PM
I like Joe's list.

32x - least potential of the 3, but would pick it over the other two now a days. It had a blow factor then, but has a cool factor now. Plus what Joe said.

Jaguar - had the most potential (well the CD version did). It had the best specs and best audio setup. But I was skeptical from day one since it had the name "Atari" on it. Launch games with no music = laughable.

3DO - despite it's rich boy price tag, it had couple of decent games. It's overall hardware is was less than the Jaguar which was less than the PS1. It was never bound to succeed.

This topic's sooo long that I forgot what the original question was in context. Was it about collecting now or buying them back then? If nowadays, 32x wins and the other two are tied.

MN12BIRD
08-15-2008, 09:50 PM
Why does everyone compare the 3DO to the PSX? It came out 2 full years before the PSX or Saturn so of course it may be lesser in hardware specs. Need for Speed and Road Rash make the 3DO the best out of the three alone. hands down! Both these games where built for the 3DO and didn't see ports to the PSX and Saturn for 2 years! Even then the ports were nowhere near as good as the originals! Not to mention Alone in the Dark the first port from the PC. Granted the PC version was still better but that was true with basically every game at the time. Speaking of PC ports Wolfenstien3D was a good port on the 3DO as well. DooM on the other hand...

Joe Redifer
08-15-2008, 11:51 PM
Need for Speed on the Playstation crushed the 3DO version with MUCH more content and tracks. In the 3DO version, you could drive to the end of 3 different roads. That's it. You couldn't even race, I don't think.

Tanegashima
08-16-2008, 01:16 AM
Why does everyone compare the 3DO to the PSX? It came out 2 full years before the PSX or Saturn so of course it may be lesser in hardware specs. Need for Speed and Road Rash make the 3DO the best out of the three alone. hands down! Both these games where built for the 3DO and didn't see ports to the PSX and Saturn for 2 years! Even then the ports were nowhere near as good as the originals! Not to mention Alone in the Dark the first port from the PC. Granted the PC version was still better but that was true with basically every game at the time. Speaking of PC ports Wolfenstien3D was a good port on the 3DO as well. DooM on the other hand...

Absolutely! The 3DO came out in 1993 for christ's sake. It was truly an impressive machine! Game wise the 3DO has to win on variety alone. The 32X alone has 30 + games, and the Jaguar 50 and a dozen CD games...The variety is just non-existent! The 3DO has/had some impressive PC ports etc. and I'd say more worthwhile games than either system even if they can be counted on one hand:

I'll give you space harrier and afterburner on the 32X, but the 3DO had the best version of Out of This World/Another World, Return Fire (awesome game that came out a full year before the Saturn/Playstation, star control II which came out in '93. I mean it's a system with a few obvious cool games and a bunch of really neat sleepers no one has ever heard of:

Icebreakers
Cannon Fodder (PC port...cool little game)
Steller 7
Burning Soldier
Guardian War
Plumbers Don't Wear ties (well maybe not...TAKE YOUR DAMN CLOTHES OFF!)

There are more playable/forgettable but yet entertaining and very good standouts on the 3DO than on either the Jag or the 32X and I sorta like the 32X too! But if I had to choose, 3DO anyday.

gamevet
08-16-2008, 02:05 AM
Cannon Fodder was also on the Jag and it appeared on the Amiga/Atari ST computers first. ;)

http://www.atarihq.com/reviews/jaguar/cannon_fodder.html

tomaitheous
08-16-2008, 03:33 AM
I remember Guardian War. My friend had that one. It sucked.

Also, the PS1 come 1 year and 2 months after the 3DO. That's fairly close time frame. Somewhere in the discussion, hardware specs came up, I thought.

I don't remember a single game on the 3DO that I wanted to play. Maybe 'cause I already had a fast computer, but I doubt that had anything to do with it. Wolfenstein 3D was weak sauce. Seeing it on a 3DO didn't impress. There was another 3D game on the 3DO at the time of Doom I remember - some horror 3D game but it had not celling for floor just like Wolf 3D. Wasn't impressed by that game either. Not sure if it sucked or not - I never gave it a play. Oh wait - Samurai Showdown. I borrowed the 3DO and the game from my friend once. That was a cool port.

MN12BIRD
08-16-2008, 06:55 AM
Oh yeah I guess it was 2 years before the PSX in NA only.

Wolf3D on the 3DO is a port of the Mac version and it blows the PC version out of the water. Higher resolution enemies, guns and a flame thrower, rocket launcher! Road Rash and Need for Speed didn't see the PC for a year later. Road Rash was like the biggest thing when it came out EVERYONE wanted to play it!

jesus.arnold
08-16-2008, 11:30 AM
Here's a much more intelligent summary:

3DO - Initial price way too expensive. Wimpy 3 button controller (that Capcom fightig pad is a joke). Decent graphics at times, could not do 240p if its life depended on it. Slow as hell. Very long load times. Some great games here and there, but could be counted on one hand.

Jaguar - Hard to find in the stores initially. Crap games except for maybe 2 or 3 at the VERY most. Graphics were unimpressive for the most part. One of the worst and cheapest-feeling controllers ever. Easy to become very bored very fast.

32X - Not too expensive. Cleaned up Genesis graphics. A couple GREAT arcade ports (Space Harrier and After Burner) which were done nowhere NEAR as well anywhere else at the time. Some other great games included Virtua Racing. Library mostly unimpressive, though. Sound was rarely taken advantage of. Looks kind of stupid sitting in ANY Genesis model.

No thats just a more mis-informed summary :p

When you look back at the time 3DO had some real great state of the art (for the time) games, I mean, when Need for Speed came out all the magazines said it was the best realistic driving game on any format including the PS1 and Saturn for gods sake, Return Fire and Space Hulk were also amazing games that hadn't been possible on the 16-bits. The Jaguar even had a few here and their like Aliens Vs Predator and Iron Soldier. Then we jump back to this thread and what are you guys talking about? perfect ports of Space Harrier, Star Wars and After Burner those games must have been nearly 10 years past their sell by date when they arrived on the 32X and the 32X fans are actually talking about them as though they're something to be proud of?!?!!?

Tanegashima
08-16-2008, 01:09 PM
I just can't comprehend how a system with more than twice the number of games published than both the 32x and Jaguar combined can be useless...

Zebbe
08-16-2008, 01:10 PM
3D0: It was so overpriced, so anyone who bought it couldn't buy any games for it. They just sat there and enjoyed the tech specs. Those few who also bought games starved to death because they didn't have any money for food left.

Jaguar: Half the price of Saturn and PS, but the bits makes it twice as good. People who didn't realize this were too dumb and the few left enjoyed the greatest library of games ever to embrace a console, with gems such as Tempest 2000, a 3D game with unlimited gameplay fun.

32X: I love this mushroom! I can play my Jap games on it, so I don't have to give my MD cartslot a circumcision. That alone is just worth more than the Jaguar. It has many great arcade ports that are way more fun than those boring war/driving games noone could afford for the 3D0. I also don't need to buy a controller for the 32X since I already have one I can use with my Mega Drive. I think we have a clear winner here!

rcgamer
08-16-2008, 03:01 PM
3D0: I think we have a clear winner here!



Yes, the 3DO. ;)

Zebbe
08-16-2008, 03:29 PM
Yes, the 32X.

;)

jesus.arnold
08-16-2008, 06:59 PM
Need for Speed on the Playstation crushed the 3DO version with MUCH more content and tracks. .Well, thats you opinion but I am not alone in thinking that the 3DO version was excellent, seeing as the 3DO version of Need for Speed reached #62 in EDGE magazines top 100 games ever made and I quote "The first and still the best, the rock-solid 3DO version of EA's ongoing series offers playability none of it's succesors has ever managed to match"

In the 3DO version, you could drive to the end of 3 different roads. That's it. You couldn't even race, I don't think.
The fact that you didn't actually know that you have to race against "X-man" shows your limited experience of the 3DO version anyway.

jesus.arnold
08-16-2008, 07:17 PM
Also, I'm finding it funny people keep bringing up price points, I mean, the 32X cost like, what 150 at launch? and all it offered were slightly better versions of a handful of games you could already get on just about every console out there. So basicaly for 150 you got nothing.

Not only that but I just checked some of my magazines, 32X games originally cost 50-60 pounds and 3DO games cost 30-40 pounds so it was only the actual console that cost the money anyway.

Tanegashima
08-16-2008, 10:31 PM
who cares about then anyway, what about now? Most 3Do games are dirt cheap as are the consoles...

jesus.arnold
08-16-2008, 11:01 PM
who cares about then anyway, what about now? Most 3Do games are dirt cheap as are the consoles...3DO consoles still aren't actually that cheap tbh, especially not in comparison to other retro consoles of that era :)

Tanegashima
08-16-2008, 11:44 PM
3DO consoles still aren't actually that cheap tbh, especially not in comparison to other retro consoles of that era :)

True, I guess...I mean it's all relative, but no more than $80 for one in my experience and most of the best games are all under $20. It is certainly cheaper to collect for than say the SNES...

I'm sure we can all agree, however, that the Sega Saturn pwns all of the above. It has the arcade perfect ports of Afterburner and Space Harrier (though imports) and many 3DO ports including Road Rash and the Horde and D and so forth...

David J.
08-16-2008, 11:50 PM
I thought the BEST version of NFS was the SE edition that came out for the PC. That was one hell of a game. I have the Saturn version, but if I remember correctly, the loading times where bad, and it looked like ass. I think it controlled well. Been a couple of years since I last touched it.

I was PISSED the Saturn version lacked the extra tracks.

Joe Redifer
08-17-2008, 03:16 AM
Well, thats you opinion but I am not alone in thinking that the 3DO version was excellent, seeing as the 3DO version of Need for Speed reached #62 in EDGE magazines top 100 games ever made and I quote "The first and still the best, the rock-solid 3DO version of EA's ongoing series offers playability none of it's succesors has ever managed to match"
This proves Edge magazine is a bunch of idiots. I am glad they did not publish them in the USA. Toilet paper is more valuable then their mag. If they say that the PS version can't offer the playability even though it is the same damn game PLUS a slew of extra tracks, races and extras, then they are just retards. Or spastics (I hear they like that word better in the UK).


The fact that you didn't actually know that you have to race against "X-man" shows your limited experience of the 3DO version anyway.
I owned the 3DO version and did everything there was to do with it! I don't remember the X-Men but I can't be bothered to remember everything about every game I have ever played. The PS version was one of the main reasons I sold my 3DO since the PS version is way better than the wimpy-ass 3DO version.

nissling
08-17-2008, 06:50 AM
3Do: One of the worst consoles I've played on. It's way to expensive and to much FMV. The graphics are ok, not more. The only really good game is Return Fire which is really good but it feels a little bit B to play that when you can play Desert Strike if I say so..

Jaguar: When it was a new system, it was amazing. I haven't played so many Jaguar-games but the one I have played is pretty decent actually. But it's maybe not worth spending the money.

32X: Probebly one of the best Add-ons of any console ever. The Sega CD is definatly the best Add-on ever but the 32X is still gr8. I don't have so many games for that console and thoose are Star Wars Arcade, Mortal Kombat 2, Virtua Racing Deluxe, Stellar Assault, Corpse Killer, Knuckles Chaotix and Doom. The only bad game I know for the 32X that game to Europe is Star Wars Arcade. I haven't play Darxide but it looks fun. Great graphics and a few really nice games. Definatly worth spending the money on.

jesus.arnold
08-17-2008, 01:51 PM
Decided to update my list again, had to remove kolibri, star wars arcade and Knuckles Chaotix as they don't fullfill the criteria of being 80% and over games (Kolibri - Gamepro score - 3.5/5, EGM - 7/10) (Chaotix - Gamepro - 2/5, EGM - 7.4/10, IGN 6/10) (Star wars arcade - Gamepro 3/5, EGM - 6.3/10)

here’s a list of all the good games released for each console (stuff that would score around 80 percent or more at the time) separated into exclusives (most important) to Ports (least important),
(#) – Denotes that the game is considered one of the greatest games ever made
(*) – Denotes that this was considered to be one of the best versions of that game at the time


Console exclusive

3DO- Star Control 2 (#), Alone in the Dark, Immercenary, Killing Time, The Incredible Machine

Jaguar- Iron Soldier, Alien Vs Predator, Zool 2

32X- Tempo

Games created for that system but later ported

3DO- Return Fire (#), Space Hulk, Need for Speed (#), The Horde, Star Fighter, Shockwave 2, Battle Sport, Lucienne's Quest, Gex, Road Rash (*), D

Jaguar-Tempest 2000 (*)(#), Rayman

32X- None that I can think of

Ports (most of which came from the Amiga)

3DO- Street Fighter 2 (*)(#), Samurai Showdown (*), Cannon Fodder, Syndicate (#), Flashback, Alone in the Dark 2, Bust-a-Move, Lemmings (#), Theme Park (#), Fifa, Madden, Another World (*)(#), Wing Commander III, Soccer Kid

Jaguar- Doom (*)(#), Cannon Fodder, Flashback (*), Theme Park(#), Raiden, Sensible Soccer (#), Worms (#), Syndicate (#), Humans (Evolution Dino Dudes), Soccer Kid

32X- Doom (#), Mortal Kombat 2 (#) (*), Fifa, Virtua Fighter (*), Virtua Racing (*), Space Harrier (*) (#)

Zebbe
08-17-2008, 02:44 PM
If you put that "#" next to Tempest 2000 and Mortal Kombat II, then I see no reason not to put it next to Virtua Fighter, Virtua Racing and Space Harrier. Virtua Fighter revolutionized the fighter genre, Virtua Racing did the same to the racing genre and Space Harrier blew people away with its incredible scaling and great graphics back in 1985 + it defined the rail-shooter genre.

jesus.arnold
08-17-2008, 03:35 PM
If you put that "#" next to Tempest 2000 and Mortal Kombat II, then I see no reason not to put it next to Virtua Fighter, Virtua Racing and Space Harrier. Virtua Fighter revolutionized the fighter genre, Virtua Racing did the same to the racing genre and Space Harrier blew people away with its incredible scaling and great graphics back in 1985 + it defined the rail-shooter genre.
The hash doesn't represent how influential a game is, it represents that the game is considered to be an all time classic to this day, few people would put Virtua Racing or Virtua fighter into a list of greatest games ever made today, Virtua Fighter 2 however would easily earn a place in such a list but not the original. I added a # next to Space Harrier.

Zebbe
08-17-2008, 05:02 PM
Okay.

The "*" should be added to Virtua Fighter, Virtua Racing and Space Harrier. Virtua Fighter is considered better than the Saturn port, Virtua Racing better than the MD port and Space Harrier better than all ports of it that came some years before it. Space Harrier had a better port on Saturn but it came some years later I think, plus it still counts as one of the better ones.

Joe Redifer
08-17-2008, 05:49 PM
He forgot After Burner. And I'm pretty sure it wasn't ported from the Amiga.

jesus.arnold
08-17-2008, 09:58 PM
Yep, I'd say all those should've had stars so I edited them in.


He forgot After Burner. And I'm pretty sure it wasn't ported from the Amiga.
Afterburner on the 32X wasn't acclaimed it was totally slated, reviewers couldn't believe that Sega were charging so much for such an old game, and I quote from Gamesmaster issue 26 "There's no need to throw money away on crusty old shooters"

Joe Redifer
08-18-2008, 01:56 AM
Why do you care what the mags said? I sure don't. Do you even play games for yourself or do you just "buy everything the magazines tell you to buy" to quote a lyric from an awesome song written by some genius. Magazines are not a final authority on anything.

After Burner Deluxe was a great game. I absolutely HATED Star Control 2. Not sure which 32X games were ported from the friggin' Amiga.

Zebbe
08-18-2008, 06:06 AM
One magazine told me Knuckles' Chaotix had 85% rating, so that's why I bought it.

D was ported to PlayStation and/or Saturn.

Black_Tiger
08-18-2008, 08:42 AM
Afterburner on the 32X wasn't acclaimed it was totally slated, reviewers couldn't believe that Sega were charging so much for such an old game, and I quote from Gamesmaster issue 26 "There's no need to throw money away on crusty old shooters"

Quotes from EGM=

Ground Zero Texas: "This has got to be the best Sega CD game I have ever played." "Overall this is the best Sega CD game you can probably consider."

Sherlock Holmes: "This is the wave of the future!" "This an example of the type of games we will be playing two years from now. It revolutionary, challenging and years ahead of its time." "Phenomenal!"

Why are we even discussing non-fmv games when judging these three consoles since reviewers at the time told us they're the best?

jesus.arnold
08-18-2008, 07:48 PM
Why do you care what the mags said? I sure don't. Do you even play games for yourself or do you just "buy everything the magazines tell you to buy".I don't particularly care what the mags said, I was trying to be as un-biased as possible by getting an aggregate of reviews from different minded people, Just because I don't personally like a game doesn't mean that others won't, If it was up to me then Afterburner still wouldn't get on the list anyway, you know why? because it was absolutely abysmal, it was always more about being gimmicky and showy than having any merit gameplay wise, not only was it a joke when it was released on the 32X in 1994 but it was a joke when it was originally released in 1987 for the Arcades, in my opinion the Gamesmaster reviewer was being too easy on it giving it 50%, I mean this was an expensive re-release of an extremely out of date game which was never actually any good in the first place.

After Burner Deluxe was a great game. I absolutely HATED Star Control 2. Not sure which 32X games were ported from the friggin' Amiga.If I were to remove the entirety of the award winning, amazingly well written, seriously ahead of it's time main game of Star Control II, and just left the 2-player bonus melee mode, Star Control II would still easily be 10 times better than every single 32X game ever released, and that is not even an exaggeration at all, I spent years playing melee mode with my brother, there's not one game on the whole 32X that would've held my interest for more than a couple of weeks at best.


Not sure which 32X games were ported from the friggin' Amiga.none were, that title entails the whole of the ports section, there are many Amiga ports for the 3DO and Jaguar such as just off the top of my head Worms, Lemmings, Cannon Fodder, Flashback, Soccer kid, Zool 2, The 32X was so awful that it didn't even get the games that were released on just about every console out there.

Tanegashima
08-18-2008, 08:22 PM
Except Pitfall the Myan Adventure...

Joe Redifer
08-18-2008, 09:27 PM
I remember buying and returning Star Control 2 for a full refund. I don't care for computer-esque games, I wanted enjoyable, fun games instead. Killing Time was super abysmal. Wasn't that the game that had no floor or ceiling? Wait, no... this is a different game that sucks just as much. So does Alien vs Predator on the Jaguar with its hyper-slow framerate. It is a fact that only child molesters like that game.

j_factor
08-19-2008, 03:43 AM
So does Alien vs Predator on the Jaguar with its hyper-slow framerate. It is a fact that only child molesters like that game.

Sad but true. The first time I played Alien vs. Predator on the Jaguar, I found myself enjoying it. The next day, I molested several children. With more play, however, I grew to dislike Alien vs. Predator for the Jaguar, and I haven't molested a single child since.

Seriously though, I see no reason to list all these redundant ports. I don't care if Jaguar, 3DO, or 32x has some game that's on 8 other systems, particularly if it's not the best version. Sorry, but if it's better on Saturn (even if just marginally), I'll pass. I don't particularly care if the 3DO version came out 12 months earlier, this isn't 1994 anymore. Really, who the hell cares about the 3DO version of FIFA? And I'm pretty sure Zool 2 sucks.

gamevet
08-19-2008, 04:07 AM
I killed somebody after playing AVP. The poor frame-rate put me into a psychosomatic state and I awoke to find a knife in my hand and a trail of blood to the neighbor's house. I'll never play that game again.

jesus.arnold
08-19-2008, 12:40 PM
Seriously though, I see no reason to list all these redundant ports. I don't care if Jaguar, 3DO, or 32x has some game that's on 8 other systems.Yeah but If I removed the ports section from that list the 32X would only have 1 game on the entire list.


particularly if it's not the best version, Sorry, but if it's better on Saturn (even if just marginally), I'll pass.. many of the ports on the 3DO such as Out of this World, Star Control II, Alone in the Dark and Return Fire were better on the 3DO than any other machine.

I don't particularly care if the 3DO version came out 12 months earlier, this isn't 1994 anymore. Really, who the hell cares about the 3DO version of FIFA? This depends on the way you look at things really doesn't it, the thread is called "blah vs blah" you can look at it from the original point of view from the actual time that they were out, at which point having the best port of FIFA for the time was a big thing, but if you're talking from the point of view of someone that is thinking about buying one now then FIFA is pretty worthless
And I'm pretty sure Zool 2 sucks.
Zool 2 is an excellent game, I own it for the Amiga, it had mixed reviews of very high and very low scores, every negative review I read seems to have been written by someone with the attention span of a fish, they have not bothered to learn that they have a skid and air spin attack. Easily deserves 80% scores

Zebbe
08-19-2008, 05:02 PM
none were, that title entails the whole of the ports section, there are many Amiga ports for the 3DO and Jaguar such as just off the top of my head Worms, Lemmings, Cannon Fodder, Flashback, Soccer kid, Zool 2, The 32X was so awful that it didn't even get the games that were released on just about every console out there.

Pffft. Lemmings, Cannon Fodder, Flashback, Worms, Out of This World and Theme Park were simple enough to be released on the MD, and they were. Most were even made well before the 32X. What point would it be to port Lemmings to the 32X when there is the MD version, really? The 32X is an add-on, which means the library of the main console still counts, which was one of the points with it. A cheaper 32-bit experience with an already great 16-bit library.

And After Burner is just great, the gameplay pumps my adrenaline.

Tanegashima
08-19-2008, 05:07 PM
Pffft. Lemmings, Cannon Fodder, Flashback, Worms, Out of This World and Theme Park were simple enough to be released on the MD, and they were. Most were even made well before the 32X. What point would it be to port Lemmings to the 32X when there is the MD version, really? The 32X is an add-on, which means the library of the main console still counts, which was one of the points with it. A cheaper 32-bit experience with an already great 16-bit library.

And After Burner is just great, the gameplay pumps my adrenaline.

What about Blade Force? That game was f-ing AMAZING, it easily looks like an N64 game and it came out before the Saturn/PSX. Proof that the 3DO did have the power to compete. Cannon fodder is an awesome game btw, who cares if there was no point. However, I think General Chaos is about 10 times cooler than Cannon Fodder, but Cannon Fodder still rocks.

Zebbe
08-19-2008, 05:11 PM
I've never tried Blade Force or any other 3D0 game. The 3D0 was so expensive nobody in Sweden could afford it. They tried to import one and it resulted in that budget deficit we had in the early 90s.

jesus.arnold
08-19-2008, 05:24 PM
The 32X is an add-on, which means the library of the main console still counts, which was one of the points with it.You need a MD to use the 32X, you don't need a 32X to have access to the whole MD library so how is the Megadrive library a plus for the 32X?

A cheaper 32-bit experience with an already great 16-bit library.yeah for only a small price you got a "32-bit experience" comparable to the SNES, and no games worth playing except the ones you could already play anyway, what a deal!

Zebbe
08-19-2008, 05:52 PM
You need a MD to use the 32X, you don't need a 32X to have access to the whole MD library so how is the Megadrive library a plus for the 32X?

You can still use the Mega Drive library with the 32X, with the 3D0 and the Jaguar you needed to start from scratch.


yeah for only a small price you got a "32-bit experience" comparable to the SNES, and no games worth playing except the ones you could already play anyway, what a deal!

How is the SNES comparable to the 32X? The SNES can't do any of all my 32X games. Maybe you find no games worth playing, but I have had plenty of fun with my 32X, especially considering when the ports it has are the best versions..

playgen
08-19-2008, 06:09 PM
I think we can all agree, back on release the 32x was not a great buy, 200 for the unit, 50 for Space Harrier etc, not good value for money. But now its all cheap, its better and an interesting curiosity, it doesn't matter so much if you only play a game for an hour or so when it only cost a couple of quid anyway. And the fact that games like After Burner were old titles at the time means much less now all the 32x games are old.

jesus.arnold
08-19-2008, 06:17 PM
You can still use the Mega Drive library with the 32X, with the 3D0 and the Jaguar you needed to start from scratch. ..yes and you can still use the Mega Drive library with....the Mega Drive funnily enough, so the Mega Drive and 3DO combo I had when I was a kid manages to equalise your Mega Drive and 32X combo




How is the SNES comparable to the 32X? The SNES can't do any of all my 32X games. Maybe you find no games worth playing, but I have had plenty of fun with my 32X, especially considering when the ports it has are the best versions..
The 32X is a hell of a lot closer to the SNES Super FX games graphically than it is to the PS1, the Jaguar was somewhere in the middle of the generations power wise, the 3DO was a 5th generation console through and through the games only slightly fall in comparison to early ps1 and Saturn games.

Zebbe
08-19-2008, 06:28 PM
yes and you can still use the Mega Drive library with....the Mega Drive funnily enough, so the Mega Drive and 3DO combo I had when I was a kid manages to equalise your Mega Drive and 32X combo

Eh, not really, especially considering the 3D0 costed $700 while the 32X costed less than 1/4 of that. I could buy many games for that saved money.

[QUOTE]The 32X is a hell of a lot closer to the SNES Super FX games graphically than it is to the PS1, the Jaguar was somewhere in the middle of the generations power wise, the 3DO was a 5th generation console through and through the games only slightly fall in comparison to early ps1 and Saturn games.

Compare Darxide to Vortex and any early Saturn game and tell me which one it is closest to.
How happy the 3D0 customers must have been buying a console for $700 when superior ones came one year later, at half that price.

jesus.arnold
08-19-2008, 06:49 PM
Eh, not really, especially considering the 3D0 costed $700 while the 32X costed less than 1/4 of that. I could buy many games for that saved money.
.or I could've saved even more money and not bought the 3DO or the 32X and stuck with my Mega Drive allowing me to play all the good 32X games you had access to anyway.


Compare Darxide to Vortex and any early Saturn game and tell me which one it is closest to. I don't know about Vortex but Darxide isn't really very impressive, there's very little the 32X has to do when you fly around in space, games like Star Fighter on the 3DO may not have looked as crisp and clean but they had to deal with having a fully realised world with proper buildings and terrain.

How happy the 3D0 customers must have been buying a console for $700 when superior ones came one year later, at half that price.firstly it was more like two years not one, secondly this argument won't work on me, by 95/96 3DO's were ultra cheap and had a pretty strong lineup of software which was also ultra cheap, this is when I purchased my 3DO for around 50 at a time when the PS1 was 299 and the games for 5 when the PS1's were 40 odd.

Tanegashima
08-20-2008, 04:14 AM
Well, out of all three, the Jaguar remains the most useless to me. Not a single game on it justifies it's ownership. Alien Trilogy on the Saturn is far better than Alien vs. Predator (even if you can't be the Predator...) a lousy 50 games most of which are utter crap. A few games that were cool but all the cool ones were ported to other systems (Raiden, Tempest 2000 etc.) Iron Soldier is pretty cool...but no system is justified by a single game.

Jaguar: Alien v. Predator, Iron Soldier (not ported to other systems...)

32X: Best versions of Afterburner, Space Harrier (until Saturn) but it has the BEST MK II port, period (saturn/PSX ports of MK II absolutely suck...god knows why), Blackthorn (which is also on the SNES), Knuckles Chaotix (if you like it...) and Shadow squadron which is awesome.

3DO: Best version of Out of this World by far, Road Rash, Total Eclipse, Foes of Ali, Blade Force, Phoenix 3 which looks a lot like Colony Wars on the psx, Guardian War, Shockwave series (which cancels out Iron Soldier AFAIC), Alone in the Dark series, Return Fire, Stellar 7, Crash N' Burn. I'm going to ignore Samurai Shodown and Street Fighter because, though cool at the the time, do no justice to the series...sorry. Now that i own SS for the Neo Geo...no port can compare and Street Fighter 2 alpha on the Saturn IS in fact Arcade perfect. The animation on the 3Do version is fairly choppy and quite annoying...

Even if you discount the rest of the 3DO's very large library which I've yet to completely experience, I'd say at worst the 3DO is tied with the 32X. The Jaguar is by far the biggest waste of plastic and Atari's absolute most embarrassing piece of hardware ever. The controllers alone put the Jag a step back from both systems even if the 3DO only had one controller port. The 32X CD games like Night Trap are fairly close to their 3DO counterparts if not the same.

for what they all were, the 32X and 3DO are fairly cool now that they are both very affordable. The Jaguar ain't worth the dough, it would just seem superfluous unless one is bent on owning everything or every atari system...

17daysolderthannes
08-20-2008, 04:26 AM
Why do you care what the mags said? I sure don't. Do you even play games for yourself or do you just "buy everything the magazines tell you to buy" to quote a lyric from an awesome song written by some genius. Magazines are not a final authority on anything.


That's the truth, GamePro gave a whole bunch of great space shooters (including R-Type 3 and Android Assault IIRC) terrible scores because the genre was "played out" at the time. Of course, now those are highly sought after and games like MUSHA go for obscene amounts of money because they represent the best the genre has to offer. Video games always look different when looking back retrospectively. A game that seemed like the new hot thing (FMV games, well, some of them) is crap looking back, whereas games that seemed like tired old franchises/genres/arcade ports that needed to die (space shooters, Afterburner Complete, MK II for 32X) are highly regarded and treasured by collectors. Retro collecting has basically taught me to just stay away from current gen consoles until they are established enough that I can see which games are really good when the dust settles, and by then they will probably be less than $10 a piece.

17daysolderthannes
08-20-2008, 04:38 AM
Well, thats you opinion but I am not alone in thinking that the 3DO version was excellent, seeing as the 3DO version of Need for Speed reached #62 in EDGE magazines top 100 games ever made and I quote "The first and still the best, the rock-solid 3DO version of EA's ongoing series offers playability none of it's succesors has ever managed to match"

The fact that you didn't actually know that you have to race against "X-man" shows your limited experience of the 3DO version anyway.


I thought the BEST version of NFS was the SE edition that came out for the PC. That was one hell of a game. I have the Saturn version, but if I remember correctly, the loading times where bad, and it looked like ass. I think it controlled well. Been a couple of years since I last touched it.

I was PISSED the Saturn version lacked the extra tracks.

I agree, NFS SE for PC is the best version as it combines the best graphics, the most tracks, and ONLINE PLAY (dunno if it still works though). The 3DO version had the best graphics for a console version if I remember, but the PSX version did have more features and certainly wasn't bad. The only thing that bothers me about the PSX version is it seems to be interlaced unnecessarily and its kind of distracting and makes it hard to see in the distance, another reason to opt for the PC version. Now if only I could get the sound to work right in DOSBox :? . Oh, and for the record, I have 3 different copies of NFS: PSX longbox complete, PSX GH complete, and NFS: SE PC-DOS w/ manual. I think its the only game I have that many versions of, and for a damn good reason.

Joe Redifer
08-20-2008, 04:55 AM
Oh man I keep forgetting about Blackthorne. Much better than the SNES version and a great game to boot! I just finished doing some hard-hitting scientific research at the library and I discovered that only handsome people like 32X Blackthorne.

Zebbe
08-20-2008, 06:15 AM
or I could've saved even more money and not bought the 3DO or the 32X and stuck with my Mega Drive allowing me to play all the good 32X games you had access to anyway.

No, 32X games won't work on the Mega Drive.



I don't know about Vortex but Darxide isn't really very impressive, there's very little the 32X has to do when you fly around in space, games like Star Fighter on the 3DO may not have looked as crisp and clean but they had to deal with having a fully realised world with proper buildings and terrain.

Okay, but Darxide has some advanced use of polygons I forgot the term of. It was all done in software without hardware support. Even if the 3D0 is far more advanced, I'd still say Super FX is also far less advanced than the 3D 32X games.


firstly it was more like two years not one, secondly this argument won't work on me, by 95/96 3DO's were ultra cheap and had a pretty strong lineup of software which was also ultra cheap, this is when I purchased my 3DO for around 50 at a time when the PS1 was 299 and the games for 5 when the PS1's were 40 odd.

I guess it was too cheap then to make any money off such an expensive project, so no wonder they had to cancel it shortly after that.

gamevet
08-20-2008, 10:45 AM
Well, out of all three, the Jaguar remains the most useless to me. Not a single game on it justifies it's ownership. Alien Trilogy on the Saturn is far better than Alien vs. Predator (even if you can't be the Predator...) a lousy 50 games most of which are utter crap. A few games that were cool but all the cool ones were ported to other systems (Raiden, Tempest 2000 etc.) Iron Soldier is pretty cool...but no system is justified by a single game.

Jaguar: Alien v. Predator, Iron Soldier (not ported to other systems...)

While I agree that most of the stuff on the Jag was utter trash, there were solid to good games like Cybermorph, Super Burnout, Atari Karts, Breakout2000, Defender 2000, Mutant Penguins, Ruiner Pinball, Tower II, Sky Hammer, Val D' Isere Ski & Snowboarding, Mutant League Football (The best looking version available) and Power Drive Rally. The Jag also had the best version of Wolfenstein 3D when it came out and Doom ran like it was on a top of the line PC.

Long before Halo was all the rage with it's linked console gameplay, there was Battlesphere. You could link up to 4 Jags and have multiplayer space warfare. The game was pretty hard to get ahold of though, because it was published long after the Jag was
dead.

List of Jag games (http://www.mobygames.com/search/quick/p,17/q,/showOnly,1024/)




32X: Best versions of Afterburner, Space Harrier (until Saturn) but it has the BEST MK II port, period (saturn/PSX ports of MK II absolutely suck...god knows why), Blackthorn (which is also on the SNES), Knuckles Chaotix (if you like it...) and Shadow squadron which is awesome.


Maybe you should try Midway Arcade's Treasures 2, before you decide that the 32X version of MKII was/is the best.

Shadow Squadron was alright, but if you're going to call out the Jag on its lineup, I wouldn't exactly call SS a great game.

Tanegashima
08-20-2008, 12:43 PM
That arcade treasure's two is a PS2 game, I meant at the time I truly cared the 32X version was the best around until the PS2 was released...

jesus.arnold
08-20-2008, 01:47 PM
No, 32X games won't work on the Mega Drive. I worded that badly, what I'm saying is that with your MD 32X combo the only good games you could play were Megadrive games that I could play anyway (this was what the particular discussion was about you may remember, it was pertaining to your idea that being able to play original MD games was a big plus point to the 32X), also, after thinking about what you said, I could actually play half the 32X games you keep going on about just with a Megadrive anyway because most of them were rehashes, I could play Afterburner, Space Harrier, Mortal Kombat 2 and probably many more "32X games" in slightly worse forms on the Megadrive without the need for a crappy expensive add-on.

Zebbe
08-20-2008, 02:07 PM
Pfft. Space Harrier wasn't released on the MD. The 32X was neither crappy nor expensive, the Jaguar was crappy and the 3D0 was expensive. But then again, you didn't count the 3D0 as expensive argument, how can you use it for the 32X?

mick_aka
08-20-2008, 03:07 PM
I have to admit my jaguar has been sat in it's box, in my attic, for the best part of 6 months and I have no immediate plans to move it from it's current location.

My 3DO collection went on eBay a couple of years ago now, as owning a Saturn made it almost totally redundant, even if it does have the better port of Need for Speed.

My 32X gets used at least once a week and as much as my Dreamcast or Gamecube, it has a small but excellent little library of games and despite owning the Saturn versions I still highly rate the 32X offerings of Virtua Fighter, Virtua Racing and Stellar Assault.
Star Wars Arcade is always worth a quick blast even if it fails to keep you playing for more than 10 mins, and if you can see past the badly dated 3D then Metal Head is a very playable title IMHO

Although titles like Doom let the 32X down, it's hit:miss ratio is much better than many systems with a more extensive library.

In short my friends, 32X FTMFW!!!!

jesus.arnold
08-20-2008, 03:16 PM
Pfft. Space Harrier wasn't released on the MDMy mistake, I was thinking of the sequel
The 32X was neither crappy nor expensive, the Jaguar was crappy and the 3D0 was expensive. But then again, you didn't count the 3D0 as expensive argument, how can you use it for the 32X?I can use it for the 32X because it was 150 for literally nothing it was akin to withdrawing 150 and then throwing it into the gutter, whilst watching some fat guy across the street drop his trousers and urinate on a Sega logo on the floor, The 32X was like a malignant tumour in Sega causing a slow death over a long period of years.

Lets look at it this way, the 32X was 150 for nothing.

The 3DO was like 700 (on original release) for a proper next gen console experience that ended up with 30-40 quality titles 2 years before there were any other alternatives out there.

Zebbe
08-20-2008, 03:41 PM
I can use it for the 32X because it was 150 for literally nothing it was akin to withdrawing 150 and then throwing it into the gutter, whilst watching some fat guy across the street drop his trousers and urinate on a Sega logo on the floor, The 32X was like a malignant tumour in Sega causing a slow death over a long period of years.

Lets look at it this way, the 32X was 150 for nothing.

Yes, for you. I've had plenty of fun with mine, even with games the magazines and you don't like.


The 3DO was like 700 (on original release) for a proper next gen console experience that ended up with 30-40 quality titles 2 years before there were any other alternatives out there.

I don't get how you can find two years between September 1993 (3D0) and November 1994 (Saturn). But I guess there is no point arguing this further. The 3D0 was an expensive proper 32-bit experience that came early, and the 32X a cheaper one that came later and powered up the Mega Drive some two years or so.

jesus.arnold
08-20-2008, 05:09 PM
I don't get how you can find two years between September 1993 (3D0) and November 1994 (Saturn).You're using the Japanese launch of the Saturn and the US launch for the 3DO, though it is true that you could've still imported a Japanese console and played it's games, with a certain level of difficulty (unless you know Japanese of course)

Either way when using the US launch it's still 3 months odd shy of 2 years for the Saturn, it was pretty much exactly two years till the PS1 though

gamevet
08-20-2008, 07:40 PM
Pfft. Space Harrier wasn't released on the MD. The 32X was neither crappy nor expensive, the Jaguar was crappy and the 3D0 was expensive. But then again, you didn't count the 3D0 as expensive argument, how can you use it for the 32X?

You gotta admit, the design was pretty poor. It's a pain in the ass to put those clips into your Genesis and it's an even bigger pain if you don't keep the setup out for play.

I dusted off my 32X about 6 months ago, played Shadow Squadron, Space Harrier, Zaxxon Mother Base 2000 and a couple of other titles. During that playtime, some of the games would only get to the Sega logo and after re-inserting the 32X, titles I'd already played wouldn't load either. I'd sell it off, but I'm not exactly sure what is working and what isn't, because of how pooly it was designed.

jesus.arnold
08-20-2008, 08:24 PM
To correct my earlier post, I just checked one of my magazines and it seems that the 3DO launch price was actually 400 and came with a game (Total Eclipse),

my estimation earlier was way off because consoles are usually sold for close to double price here in the UK, so a $300 console will be sold for close to 300 even though the pound is actually worth double what the dollar is worth, it seems as though the 3DO however was launched at close to the same price, this has the effect of making the 3DO's price actually quite fair in comparison to other consoles in the UK even at launch.

3DO with a game - 400
Sega Saturn & PS1 - Somewhere around 330 without a game (games would originally cost in the region of 40 brand new)

So the "whine, whine, expensive, expensive" argument doesn't actually relate to the UK (and probably most of Europe which is usually equally screwed over by companies price wise) at all.

gamevet
08-20-2008, 09:28 PM
my estimation earlier was way off because consoles are usually sold for close to double price here in the UK, so a $300 console will be sold for close to 300 even though the pound is actually worth double what the dollar is worth,.

I don't think the pound was worth that much back in 1994. I may be wrong, but I believe it was closer to 1.33 to the dollar.

*Edit*

I just looked it up. The US dollar was .67 to the British pound, or like I said above, 1.33 to the dollar.

http://www.x-rates.com/cgi-bin/hlookup.cgi

jesus.arnold
08-20-2008, 10:31 PM
I don't think the pound was worth that much back in 1994. I may be wrong, but I believe it was closer to 1.33 to the dollar.

*Edit*

I just looked it up. The US dollar was .67 to the British pound, or like I said above, 1.33 to the dollar.

http://www.x-rates.com/cgi-bin/hlookup.cgioh yes, course it was less back then wasn't it, doesn't change the point of my post at all though as I was comparing like for like from the same period.

This still goes on now with the new console prices and the different exchange rate of today anyway.

j_factor
08-21-2008, 02:07 AM
Yeah but If I removed the ports section from that list the 32X would only have 1 game on the entire list.

I'm not saying remove all ports, just the redundant ones. The 32x port of Blackthorne is appropriate to list because it is superior. You can make an argument for the Jaguar version of Flashback, too. But I'm pretty sure Cannon Fodder was pretty much the same across every platform. And wouldn't the supreme version be the CD32 port anyway? Maybe this thread should be 32x vs 3DO vs Jaguar vs CD32.


many of the ports on the 3DO such as Out of this World, Star Control II, Alone in the Dark and Return Fire were better on the 3DO than any other machine.

Star Control II and Alone in the Dark were both only released for 3DO and PC, as far as I know. They're not really what I'm talking about. I would say the 3DO version of Out of this World is rendered unnecessary by Heart of the Alien for Sega CD. Is Return Fire really worse on Playstation? I've never compared.


This depends on the way you look at things really doesn't it, the thread is called "blah vs blah" you can look at it from the original point of view from the actual time that they were out, at which point having the best port of FIFA for the time was a big thing, but if you're talking from the point of view of someone that is thinking about buying one now then FIFA is pretty worthless

I know this is a Genesis forum and all, but even here, our "living in the past" should have its limits. I don't give a shit about FIFA one way or the other, so I don't really care to discuss it further. :p


Zool 2 is an excellent game, I own it for the Amiga, it had mixed reviews of very high and very low scores, every negative review I read seems to have been written by someone with the attention span of a fish, they have not bothered to learn that they have a skid and air spin attack. Easily deserves 80% scores

I've never actually played Zool 2, I just thought everyone hated it. I actually don't mind the original Zool, unlike many (although I'm not in love with it) -- but a few have even told me "I liked the original, but Zool 2 sucked". So whatever.

mick_aka
08-21-2008, 04:22 AM
3DO with a game - 400
Sega Saturn & PS1 - Somewhere around 330 without a game (games would originally cost in the region of 40 brand new)

So the "whine, whine, expensive, expensive" argument doesn't actually relate to the UK (and probably most of Europe which is usually equally screwed over by companies price wise) at all.

Even more so as the UK launch price for the Saturn was actually identical at 400 (399.99) with a controller and a demo disc, even though it dropped pretty quickly (dropped 100 by xmas if I remember correctly)

As far as I remember the PlayStation (PSX) launch price was 300 (299.99)


Regardless, the 3DO was the same launch price as the Saturn in europe, yes. But the Saturn was slated from launch to it's demise over it's ridiculously high launch price, the 3DO WAS too expensive at launch, it's just that the Saturn was also too expensive at launch.

Iron Lizard
08-21-2008, 04:27 AM
Here the Saturn was $399 the Ps was $299 and the 3do was $699 leaving little reason to buy one.

mick_aka
08-21-2008, 04:36 AM
Oh I agree Iron Lizard, you yanks could have indeed gone out and purchased a PlayStation AND a Saturn for a cent under the retail price for the 3DO!

Iron Lizard
08-21-2008, 04:40 AM
It amazes me how much they charged for the Saturn over there. They must have been on drugs or Sega Ceo's been taking bribes form Sony or something.

Joe Redifer
08-21-2008, 04:49 AM
Wow, you guys pay some insane prices over there. How do companies get away with it?

Zebbe
08-21-2008, 08:17 AM
You gotta admit, the design was pretty poor. It's a pain in the ass to put those clips into your Genesis and it's an even bigger pain if you don't keep the setup out for play.

You are supposed to throw away those clips, not put them in your Genesis !!!

The point of the design IS to keep the setup out for play, because you can still play your Genesis games on the 32X.


Wow, you guys pay some insane prices over there. How do companies get away with it?

Usually they leave the hardware business.

gamevet
08-21-2008, 10:55 AM
You are supposed to throw away those clips, not put them in your Genesis !!!

Right! They just threw those in the box as a practical joke.

I've used the 32X with and without the clips. You bump the 32X just right and it doesn't work. I have two 32X units, so you can't blame it on faulty hardware. Yes, I do have the spacer in place and when my 32X starts having problems playing the games, I throw the clips in.



The point of the design IS to keep the setup out for play, because you can still play your Genesis games on the 32X.


The point of the design is to show others how not to make an add-on device.

Seriously, consoles are supposed to be plug-n-play, not leave out when not in use.

Zebbe
08-21-2008, 11:28 AM
Right! They just threw those in the box as a practical joke.

No, because FCC forced them to.


I've used the 32X with and without the clips. You bump the 32X just right and it doesn't work.

Where in the manual do you read that you're supposed to bump your 32X?


I have two 32X units, so you can't blame it on faulty hardware.

I don't.


Yes, I do have the spacer in place and when my 32X starts having problems playing the games, I throw the clips in.

Okay, that's like cutting nails to cure smelly armpits.


The point of the design is to show others how not to make an add-on device.

I think you are thinking of the 64DD - a bra for thin girls with big boobs.


Seriously, consoles are supposed to be plug-n-play, not leave out when not in use.

I know no-one who unplugs his/her consoles and puts them back in the box after use every time. This would be a great poll to prove how wrong you are. Do you do the same with your computer?

gamevet
08-21-2008, 11:48 AM
Where in the manual do you read that you're supposed to bump your 32X?

Just removing a cart to put in another will bump the 32X.




I know no-one who unplugs his/her consoles and puts them back in the box after use every time. This would be a great poll to prove how wrong you are. Do you do the same with your computer?

So, you just happen to have you 32X sitting out on the coffee table in your livingroom? Do you have your 32X set up in a shrine?


Not everyone has their game consoles lined up ready to play. I do in my office, but in my livingroom it's one console at a time. Still it doesn't matter, because the system shouldn't be a pain in the ass to get working. Especially when you put it back together on the few occasions you want to play it. People move their consoles!

Even in my office, I have a PS2, 360, N64, Saturn and a Gamecube hooked up to the television. My SNES sits in a sealed plastic bin, ready for the next time I want to play it. The same for my Genesis, Jaguar, 2600 C-64, Amiga and TG-16. Why would the 32X be sitting out, when I have far more I could play instead?

The Sega CD was a great add-on, the 32X was a botched effort in reliability.




GZymoHjOM8g


The full video review (http://www.gametrailers.com/player/19558.html)

Zebbe
08-21-2008, 01:44 PM
Just removing a cart to put in another will bump the 32X.

Not for me. Do you have Parkinson?


So, you just happen to have you 32X sitting out on the coffee table in your livingroom? Do you have your 32X set up in a shrine?

No, it is in my Mega Drive ALL the time. I've never removed it since I plugged it in, actually.

Tanegashima
08-21-2008, 03:32 PM
Well how do you play the non 32x version of Virtua Racing then?! If you're not in the mood for the 32X version and you want to play the Genesis version, how do you plan on doing that?

Zebbe
08-21-2008, 04:13 PM
Using my Nomad.

17daysolderthannes
08-21-2008, 04:44 PM
Well how do you play the non 32x version of Virtua Racing then?! If you're not in the mood for the 32X version and you want to play the Genesis version, how do you plan on doing that?

oh come on, really? that's like saying "I don't want to surf the web on my brand new 4 Ghz PC, let me break out my P II from 1998 and surf it on that." If you have virtua racing for 32X, there is no reason to own or play the SVP version unless its just for collecting. Besides, didn't anyone get the memo? Virtua Racing sucks. Back in the mid 90's when I played it at the arcade and the graphics were the hot new thing I still didn't really enjoy it past the novelty of the latest technology. I felt the same way about Virtua Fighter too, only I enjoy that at least a little now. Seriously, is Virtua Fighter really this simple/easy? I mean, 2 buttons? that's it? punch and kick is all you have? wow.

17daysolderthannes
08-21-2008, 04:55 PM
I don't think the pound was worth that much back in 1994. I may be wrong, but I believe it was closer to 1.33 to the dollar.

*Edit*

I just looked it up. The US dollar was .67 to the British pound, or like I said above, 1.33 to the dollar.

http://www.x-rates.com/cgi-bin/hlookup.cgi

hey, um, I think you mean 1~$1.50 US

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s190/specv4life/459.gif

Tanegashima
08-21-2008, 05:15 PM
oh come on, really? that's like saying "I don't want to surf the web on my brand new 4 Ghz PC, let me break out my P II from 1998 and surf it on that." If you have virtua racing for 32X, there is no reason to own or play the SVP version unless its just for collecting. Besides, didn't anyone get the memo? Virtua Racing sucks. Back in the mid 90's when I played it at the arcade and the graphics were the hot new thing I still didn't really enjoy it past the novelty of the latest technology. I felt the same way about Virtua Fighter too, only I enjoy that at least a little now. Seriously, is Virtua Fighter really this simple/easy? I mean, 2 buttons? that's it? punch and kick is all you have? wow.


Wow, really? No way...you mean if I have Virtua Racing for the 32X I really don't need to play the other one. Before your post I had no idea. I used to just disassemble my 32X every time I HAD to play the non-32X version and only now have I realized that the 32X version in-fact solves that problem. My God I think this is one of those moments in my life I will look back on as simply defining.

mick_aka
08-21-2008, 05:16 PM
Well how do you play the non 32x version of Virtua Racing then?! If you're not in the mood for the 32X version and you want to play the Genesis version, how do you plan on doing that?

That's one of the top 5 most retarded things I have read on this forum, and that's saying something! :?

Tanegashima
08-21-2008, 05:25 PM
Are you people kidding me??? Do you think I was actually being serious?? I mean, it's not like a brick just flew through the window hit me on the head and made me actually believe that you need to be able to have access to both games! I was f-ing JOKING for christ's sake. I figured the absolute insanity of the post spoke for itself, but I guess some people just need to find a way to criticize instead of looking for the parody.

"Hmm, this may have sarcasm...oh...no, it may not matter, I've found something about it I can criticize"

Edit: Damn, only now do I realize I should have just kept defending myself, justifying my idea and made you all look like bigger morons.

gamevet
08-21-2008, 07:19 PM
Not for me. Do you have Parkinson?

That's weak.

My first 32X was a used model. It had problems all the time, so I bought a brand new one for $25 from Toys R' Us. The only time I've ever seen a system (to get the games working) where you had to insert and re-insert a cartridge was the NES. Sometimes I'd have to re-insert the 32X to get games working. I'd like to get a model one Genesis to see if it works better, since I liked that system better than the model 2 anyways.

What I'm experiencing isn't some sort of anomoly.

http://www.sonic-cult.org/articles/32x/




2. The expander. This will allow you to comfortably rest your 32x on top of a Genesis/Megadrive Model II. It is possible to use the 32x without it, but it will sit loosely in the cart slot, putting pressure on the teeth/pins. That and the fucking thing barely works, and the slightest bump will completely freeze it.





No, it is in my Mega Drive ALL the time. I've never removed it since I plugged it in, actually.

Well goodie for you. The fact still remains that I should be able to remove the 32X and have no problems the next time I use it. It shouldn't have to sit plugged into my Genesis for optimum performance.

I'm not hating on the system to be some ass. It's pretty frustrating when you want to play Sonic Chaotix and all you get is a frozen screen. What a POS.

Joe Redifer
08-22-2008, 03:11 AM
Yeah right. The 32X is only bested in power by the PS3 and Xbox 360!

Zebbe
08-22-2008, 09:21 AM
My first 32X was a used model. It had problems all the time, so I bought a brand new one for $25 from Toys R' Us. The only time I've ever seen a system (to get the games working) where you had to insert and re-insert a cartridge was the NES. Sometimes I'd have to re-insert the 32X to get games working. I'd like to get a model one Genesis to see if it works better, since I liked that system better than the model 2 anyways.

I admit I have also had problems with my 32X. It was bought used. There were roachers in the AC holes, so I figured the unit might be dirty as well. It was and I cleaned it. Most problems were gone, but it happened that it freezed occasionally and some sound channels "died" all of a sudden. Then I started cleaning my games. After that, I've never had any problems again. I use the first superior Mega Drive model by the way.

nissling
08-22-2008, 02:44 PM
Now, I think that the 32X is great. There's not many games, but most of the games are good. Many people say that Doom on the 32X sucks and the Snes-port is 100 times better. No, the 32X-port is way, way better then the Snes-port. The 32X-port of Doom is not just better then the Snes-port, it's the best FPS on any console by Sega untill the Dreamcast. Yeah! The music isn't that bad, you get use to it actually and it's better then nothing. The sound effects are great. And the best is the gameplay. The control, the levels and everything else is just perfect! It's very easy to get use tothe controls and it's absolutley one of the best ports of Doom. The only bad thing I can say is just that five levels missing, but you have to live with that ;)

Zebbe
08-22-2008, 02:57 PM
Put on your flame shield, Nissling... :P

jesus.arnold
08-22-2008, 05:35 PM
The 32X-port of Doom is not just better then the Snes-port, it's the best FPS on any console by Sega untill the Dreamcast.
Quake, Duke Nukem, Powerslave/Exhumed, all on the Saturn, all better than the 32X port of Doom, it's actually quite funny that you say that too as the FPS genre was one of the Saturn's few strengths, along with fighting games, and if you imported from Japan scrolling shooters.

Tanegashima
08-22-2008, 06:18 PM
Quake, Duke Nukem, Powerslave/Exhumed, all on the Saturn, all better than the 32X port of Doom, it's actually quite funny that you say that too as the FPS genre was one of the Saturn's few strengths, along with fighting games, and if you imported from Japan scrolling shooters.

yeah, what about Alien trilogy and hexen??!! These were great FPSs and I'm not a huge FPS guy but these games rule.

One of the saturn's few strengths? It has some amazing 2-D platformers (Rayman...best version, Shinobi, Skeleton Warriors, Megaman games, NighTs,) and really cool shooters: In the Hunt, Darius Gaiden, and it also has the best versions of D, Mansion of Hidden souls and Sega Ralley Championship. It's got a great lineup, I'd say the FPSs can be skipped altogether and it's still not a weak system, even 3D wise. Resident Evil's graphics aren't quite as sharp on the Saturn but the differences are so insignificant that AFAIC it doesn't make a bit of difference.

jesus.arnold
08-22-2008, 09:14 PM
One of the saturn's few strengths? It has some amazing 2-D platformers (Rayman...best version, Shinobi, Skeleton Warriors, Megaman games, NighTs,) .The Saturn's 2D Platformer library is completely obliterated by the PS1's platformer library so it could be hardly called a strength of the system, Also Nights is not a platformer. The Saturn's architecture was much better suited to FPS games than the PS1 so all FPS games on the Saturn usually blew their ps1 equivalents away, which is why I would call it a strength.


and really cool shooters: In the Hunt, Darius Gaiden, and it also has the best versions of D, Mansion of Hidden souls and Sega Ralley Championship. It's got a great lineup, I'd say the FPSs can be skipped altogether and it's still not a weak system, .now your just naming a few games here and there, yes, if you include imports then the Saturn also has a strength where it come to scrolling shoot-em-ups (as I said earlier), but just because the Saturn had a few good games of a certain genre here and there does not make it a strong point of the system.



even 3D wise. Resident Evil's graphics aren't quite as sharp on the Saturn but the differences are so insignificant that AFAIC it doesn't make a bit of difference.Having a game that has been available for years on another system, and still isn't as good, as well as missing out on all said games sequels is far from being a strength of the system.

j_factor
08-22-2008, 09:45 PM
The Saturn's 2D Platformer library is completely obliterated by the PS1's platformer library

Uh, what? All I can think of that Playstation has over Saturn would be Klonoa, Oddworld, and Adventures of Lomax. Good games, but that hardly "obliterates" Astal, Clockwork Knight, and Mr. Bones.

Tanegashima
08-22-2008, 10:22 PM
The only platformer I really like on the PSX is Heart of Darkness and it originally was going to be the launch title for the Saturn but was delayed I think until the last year/months of the saturn and was released on the PSX.

Mr. Bones is so amazingly jawausome that it alone blows PSX out of the water. Yes the import shooter library for the Saturn needs to be counted btw, in all fairness. Therefor the Saturn just kicks the shit out of the PSX (as it did in Japan, the Saturn way outsold sony in Japan and was supported longer too). The sheer number of arcade ports, the fact that Capcom actually put effort into all of it's Sega ports (all Sony capcom ports from this era really are lacking to say the least, especially megaman and street fighter).

Also, do you expect me to name every game released on the damn system, I can't even remember all the games I own for the saturn, those popped to mind first.

gamevet
08-22-2008, 11:58 PM
Therefor the Saturn just kicks the shit out of the PSX (as it did in Japan, the Saturn way outsold sony in Japan and was supported longer too). The sheer number of arcade ports, the fact that Capcom actually put effort into all of it's Sega ports (all Sony capcom ports from this era really are lacking to say the least, especially megaman and street fighter).



The Saturn's most succesful region was Japan, but it was nowhere near the 21 million Playstations sold in that country.

http://www.scei.co.jp/corporate/data/bizdataps_e.html

gamevet
08-23-2008, 12:03 AM
I admit I have also had problems with my 32X. It was bought used. There were roachers in the AC holes, so I figured the unit might be dirty as well. It was and I cleaned it. Most problems were gone, but it happened that it freezed occasionally and some sound channels "died" all of a sudden. Then I started cleaning my games. After that, I've never had any problems again. I use the first superior Mega Drive model by the way.


I've cleaned the 32X and cartridges and didn't see much of an improvement. :(

j_factor
08-23-2008, 12:25 AM
The Saturn's most succesful region was Japan, but it was nowhere near the 21 million Playstations sold in that country.

http://www.scei.co.jp/corporate/data/bizdataps_e.html

The Saturn did outsell the Playstation in Japan for a time, though. The 21 million figure isn't really a relevant comparison, since the Saturn was discontinued in 1998 and they were selling PSOne's until, what, 2004?

gamevet
08-23-2008, 12:40 AM
The Saturn did outsell the Playstation in Japan for a time, though. The 21 million figure isn't really a relevant comparison, since the Saturn was discontinued in 1998 and they were selling PSOne's until, what, 2004?

You should check out the chart posted in that link. Sony shipped/sold near 3.5 million units in Japan in 1997, and the total was 10 million by the end of that year. They already had 6.5 million units shipped/sold by March of 1997.

j_factor
08-23-2008, 03:35 PM
You should check out the chart posted in that link. Sony shipped/sold near 3.5 million units in Japan in 1997, and the total was 10 million by the end of that year. They already had 6.5 million units shipped/sold by March of 1997.

First of all, that's shipped, not sold, so those numbers don't mean much. Secondly, I don't know why you're bringing up 1997. I said Saturn outsold Playstation for a time, and it did. Remember that the two systems launched in 1994. You know what happened in 1997? Final Fantasy VII. At that point Playstation pulled ahead. That's still a significant gap of time, though.

I guess Saturn never "way" outsold Playstation, but it was ahead for a while.

jesus.arnold
08-23-2008, 05:15 PM
but that hardly "obliterates" Astal, Clockwork Knight, and Mr. Bones.
god it must've been worse than I thought, you couldn't even think of 3 stand-out games, I mean Clockwork Knight? seriously?, it's a good game but hardly anything worth writing home about, the same goes for Mr Bones which looked very impressive for the time but has aged terribly now.

playgen
08-23-2008, 05:24 PM
Playstation doesn't have Shinobi X, case closed

jesus.arnold
08-23-2008, 05:32 PM
Therefore the Saturn just kicks the shit out of the PSX The only thing the Saturn "kicks the shit out of the PS1" in is fighting games, thats it.

In the beginning it "kicked the shit out of the ps1" in first person shooters, because in was technologically more geared to handling them, but eventually the PS1 managed to supercede it due to it's ease of programming. longer lifespan, and large amount of exclusives in that genre.

playgen
08-23-2008, 05:46 PM
What about shoot-em-ups, the Saturn has tons of those

jesus.arnold
08-23-2008, 06:03 PM
What about shoot-em-ups, the Saturn has tons of those

To me the phrase "kicked the shit out of" would imply a massive gulf between each of the console's libraries, there is not a massive gulf between the PS1 and the Saturn in the shoot-em-up genre. Though I would agree that the Saturn is better than the PS1 in the genre it is only by a small margin.

j_factor
08-23-2008, 06:30 PM
god it must've been worse than I thought, you couldn't even think of 3 stand-out games, I mean Clockwork Knight? seriously?, it's a good game but hardly anything worth writing home about, the same goes for Mr Bones which looked very impressive for the time but has aged terribly now.

The games I listed for Playstation weren't necessarily stand-out games either. The two systems share a lot of platformers in common; I was merely listing the only exclusives I could think of. (I don't really consider Heart of Darkness or Shinobi to be platformers.) It just so happens that they have the same number. You could argue about this game or that game, but really, I don't see how Klonoa, Oddworld, and Lomax combined "completely obliterate" Astal, Clockwork Knight, and Mr. Bones combined. Even if you think the former group is better overall, you must have a crazy definition of "obliterate" for that word to be remotely appropriate. Four good games does not obliterate four "less good" games.

jesus.arnold
08-23-2008, 06:47 PM
The games I listed for Playstation weren't necessarily stand-out games either. The two systems share a lot of platformers in common; I was merely listing the only exclusives I could think of. (I don't really consider Heart of Darkness or Shinobi to be platformers.) It just so happens that they have the same number. You could argue about this game or that game, but really, I don't see how Klonoa, Oddworld, and Lomax combined "completely obliterate" Astal, Clockwork Knight, and Mr. Bones combined. Even if you think the former group is better overall, you must have a crazy definition of "obliterate" for that word to be remotely appropriate. Four good games does not obliterate four "less good" games.
no those few games you mentioned on the PS1 don't obliterate the Saturn's library, add the other 30 odd high quality platformers on the PS1 you didn't mention and thats where the obliteration starts.

j_factor
08-23-2008, 07:29 PM
no those few games you mentioned on the PS1 don't obliterate the Saturn's library, add the other 30 odd high quality platformers on the PS1 you didn't mention and thats where the obliteration starts.

The other 30 odd high quality platformers... such as...?

Tanegashima
08-23-2008, 07:52 PM
What about:
Far superior versions of:

Rayman
Mega Man 8 & X4

Thunderforce V
Metal Slug (not missing tons of animations, sounds and does not have laggish controls)
Silhouette Mirage

And exclusives
Radiant Silvergun
Night Striker S
Deep Fear
Dragon Force
Guardian Heroes
Iron Storm
Shinobi X
NighTs into Dreams
Panzer Dragoons

The arcade ports alone make the Saturn better AFAIC: In the Hunt (I think it's better on the Saturn than PSX), Night Striker S, Space Harrier, Afterburner, Virtua Fighter 2/Remix (Hell, as you already said--ALL the fighting games--Marvel games, Street Fighters,) all the Capcom compilations and SNK compilations that include shooters that were never released on the PSX, Earthworm Jim 2 SE which is far better on the Saturn, House of the Dead, Virtua Cop,

In fact, I'll venture to say that every 2-D game released on the Saturn is far superior period. The Saturn had arcade perfect ports, the PSX did not. The problem this presents is the preferences of two different types of gamers too. But the 3-D/2-D argument aside, the Saturn wins on the merits above.

I also did not intend for my facetious remark about the Saturn "kicking the shit" out of the PSX to be taken so literally/seriously. I mean who cares really, they both had many of the exact same game released. But I also want to add that the true potential of the Saturn graphically/game play was never realized. It was out for 3 years or so and it takes that long at least before a system really shines in terms of it's potential. The Genesis games of the 32-bit era are some of the greatest that ever came out for said system. The PSX was around for nearly/over ten years. Of course it's going to be more finely tuned, have a bigger selection. Had the Saturn lasted, it's potential could have been realized and the two would have basically been on par. But in terms of games, I enjoy the Saturn exclusives far more and the games that came out on both, I just find more convenient to play on the Saturn.

I have a handful of PSX games, like Heart of Darkness (I waited so long for this game, it was the reason I bought a PSX) and Fade to Black because I'm a Flashback fanboy. You Don't Know Jack is a party fav too on the PSX. But yeah, we're fighting an endless battle here one that we all know the saturn would win :)


Ahem, and the 3DO is better than the 32X and the Jaguar combined too...damn it.

But then again, the Phillips CD-i was better than the Saturn, Genesis, PSX, and PS3 Combined...

This argument is insane. We all have different tastes, it's like arguing why the color blue is better than the color red.

Why don't we all just agree that video games rock, the 32-bit era rocked (best 16 bit games came out, awesome home arcade ports, neeto turn in the video game wars), we all like tons of varied, strange and awesome shit. Everything/something always sucks to someone, but we can all agree that video games just kick ass (at least until now, I'm not too sure about this generation...uh oh...)

Barnard
08-23-2008, 08:50 PM
Rubbish fact alert!

For the Jaguar to utilise the Q sound technology in game the midi chip had to be disabled, this is why games such as Doom had no music. To get the diectional sound routine to work there had to be no music playing.

gamevet
08-24-2008, 12:49 AM
First of all, that's shipped, not sold, so those numbers don't mean much. Secondly, I don't know why you're bringing up 1997. I said Saturn outsold Playstation for a time, and it did. Remember that the two systems launched in 1994. You know what happened in 1997? Final Fantasy VII. At that point Playstation pulled ahead. That's still a significant gap of time, though.

I guess Saturn never "way" outsold Playstation, but it was ahead for a while.


Sony wasn't going to ship millions of units, if they aren't selling.

I brought up 1997, because you were saying that the numbers weren't comparable, because the Saturn was dicontinued in 1998. The fact remains that the Playstation shipped/sold over 10 million units in Japan by the end of 1997; far eclipsing the total number of Saturns sold in the land of the rising sun.

The Saturn did, however, have more software sold per unit at that time.

Sergeant_Sega
08-24-2008, 06:36 AM
3DO is the only console of the three that I have not played before. The Jaguard I did not like at all, the pad was truly terrible and the games I got for it was really terrible. White Men Can't Jump, omg, so awful it almost made me cry...

The 32X stand out to me as the least bad of the bunch, and it does have some cool games. Too bad it ended up as a one trick pony add-on...

djtwok
08-24-2008, 06:44 AM
Would one of the three systems theoretically be able to playback mp3s ?

Tanegashima
08-24-2008, 02:37 PM
No, none of the systems are capable of playing MP3's considering MP3 wasn't even really something around for the public until mid 1995. All of these systems were designed and some released several years prior. Also, the Jaguar would need it's CD attachment but still can't play mp3 and the 3DO doesn't either.

MN12BIRD
08-24-2008, 02:52 PM
You don't need any special hardware to playback an MP3, just the right software and a processor fast enough to decode it so the years they are released has nothing to do with it. My AMD 486 75MHZ Machine predated mid 1995 but it could still play MP3s when they became popular.

I would think the 3DO "could" playback "some" MP3s like lower compression, super low KHz, mono, Non-VBR but even that would be pushing it!

Anyone?

Zebbe
08-24-2008, 03:17 PM
In fact, I'll venture to say that every 2-D game released on the Saturn is far superior period.

What about Castlevania: Symphony of the Night?

Tanegashima
08-24-2008, 05:13 PM
I think the graphics are sharper in the Saturn version (Nocturne in Moonlight/Dracula X) and I like the way the game begins a little better. However, the PSX version is far more playable simply because it is in english. But all in all I'd say they're very close...

jesus.arnold
08-24-2008, 05:33 PM
The other 30 odd high quality platformers... such as...?Firstly I have to say that I have a very limited knowledge of the PS1 game library, partly due to the fact that I didn't have one originally, but mostly due to the fact that there are just soooooo many games (over 5000 releases) so I'm probably ignorant of at least 50% of the good platformers.

Apart from the aforementioned Lomax, Klonoa, Abe's Odysee, and Heart of Darkness, there's Strider 2, Abe's Exodus, Tombi 1, Tombi 2, Gunners Heaven, Mega Man X 5, Mega Man X 6, Umihara Kawase Shun, Wild 9, Skull Monkeys, Hermie Hopperhead, Metal Slug X. Also, seeing as you're already mentioning decent-good tier games most of the disney platformers such as Hercules and Peter Pan could also be considered.

j_factor
08-24-2008, 07:10 PM
Sony wasn't going to ship millions of units, if they aren't selling.

True, but it's not like they sold instantly. It's a bit misleading to talk about units shipped when discussing a particular time frame.


I brought up 1997, because you were saying that the numbers weren't comparable, because the Saturn was dicontinued in 1998. The fact remains that the Playstation shipped/sold over 10 million units in Japan by the end of 1997; far eclipsing the total number of Saturns sold in the land of the rising sun.

It's indisputable that Playstation outsold Saturn in Japan in 1997. But the two systems were launched in 1994. There's a big gap there, during which (or at least a large part of which) Saturn was ahead.

j_factor
08-24-2008, 07:27 PM
Firstly I have to say that I have a very limited knowledge of the PS1 game library, partly due to the fact that I didn't have one originally, but mostly due to the fact that there are just soooooo many games (over 5000 releases) so I'm probably ignorant of at least 50% of the good platformers.

Apart from the aforementioned Lomax, Klonoa, Abe's Odysee, and Heart of Darkness, there's Strider 2, Abe's Exodus, Tombi 1, Tombi 2, Gunners Heaven, Mega Man X 5, Mega Man X 6, Umihara Kawase Shun, Wild 9, Skull Monkeys, Hermie Hopperhead, Metal Slug X. Also, seeing as you're already mentioning decent-good tier games most of the disney platformers such as Hercules and Peter Pan could also be considered.

Abe's Exoddus was included in my original comment (there are two Oddworld games, just as there are two Clockwork Knight games). Mega Man X6 sucked. I'll give you Mega Man X5 and Skull Monkeys. I'm not sure what Hermie Hopperhead is, so maybe that too. Several of those aren't platformers -- just because a game is viewed from the side doesn't make it a platformer. And I wasn't including Japanese imports, because both systems probably have obscure Japanese platformers I've never heard of, but if we're going to go there, Saturn also has Bubble Symphony, Liquid Kids, and Super Tempo.

jesus.arnold
08-24-2008, 08:30 PM
Several of those aren't platformers -- just because a game is viewed from the side doesn't make it a platformer.No, every single one of those games was a platformer, some of them are more specifically "Run-and-gun" games. The Run and gun genre is a sub genre of platformer (Run and Gun = platformer-shooter hybrid) therefore all run and gun games are platformer's by definition.

jesus.arnold
08-24-2008, 08:55 PM
What about:
Far superior versions of:

Rayman
Mega Man 8 & X4

Thunderforce V
Metal Slug (not missing tons of animations, sounds and does not have laggish controls)
Silhouette MirageStop exaggerating :p. replace "far superior" with "slightly better" and you'll be closer to the truth, though I can only talk for Rayman and Thunder Force V they could hardly be called far superior, Thunder Force V has a few of the backgrounds toned down a bit but it's still the same game, in fact it actually has more options than the Saturn version and looks better texture wise in some areas.

For a game that really is far superior on the Saturn look towards Marvel VS Street Fighter, you can't even tag mid game in the PS1 version!!!!!


In the Hunt (I think it's better on the Saturn than PSX)Actually the general concensus seems to be that the PS1 version is superior

Joe Redifer
08-25-2008, 03:00 AM
You don't need any special hardware to playback an MP3, just the right software and a processor fast enough to decode it so the years they are released has nothing to do with it.

You are correct however you'd still need the sound hardware that is good enough to play back 44.1 Khz 16-bit stereo audio in real time that isn't streamed from the CD via redbook. I doubt the 32X could do this. If somebody knows its PWM capabilities better than I, speak up! Not sure about the Jaguar or 3DO.

tomaitheous
08-25-2008, 03:26 AM
Actually the general concensus seems to be that the PS1 version is superior

I bought the import Saturn version and my friend owns the PS1 version. We compared them side by side, but to be honest I don't remember which one was better. I know that one of them had an extra scroll in the first level, but I can't remember which version :daze:

The PS1 tends to have a soft composite output while the Saturn is sharper. For 2D, I prefer the Saturn for it's video output.

TmEE
08-25-2008, 09:17 AM
I would think the 3DO "could" playback "some" MP3s like lower compression, super low KHz, mono, Non-VBR but even that would be pushing it!

Anyone?

You can play MP3 even on a MD, but its not real-time playback... you read a chunk, then decompress it, and play it... each chunk would take probably minutes to decompress on MD...

I actually don't know how much processing power is required to decompress MP3 nicely... my P166 couldn't play very many files simultaneously...

gamevet
08-26-2008, 10:39 AM
It's indisputable that Playstation outsold Saturn in Japan in 1997. But the two systems were launched in 1994. There's a big gap there, during which (or at least a large part of which) Saturn was ahead.

The Saturn had a very small lead between December of 2005 (the launch of Virtua Fighter 2 in Japan) and the middle of 2006. We're talking maybe a couple 100K of difference between the two. You really couldn't call either one the market leader.

Iron Lizard
08-26-2008, 10:56 AM
Interestingly more software was sold for the Saturn.

Michael Helgeson
08-27-2008, 09:02 PM
Wow,Im finally able to post. Last time I checked I couldn't.. At any rate someone on the 3DO forum pointed this thread out,and alot of good points are made defending all 3 of the systems. In the end,it sometimes comes down to personal taste alot of the time too but even then there is no denying your fav of the 3 may not actually be the best. Im siding with the 3DO. This is my main list of titles I can come up with off the top of my head (still alot missing off the list) that I really love for the 3DO that really help keep the system on top with me,and many others:

Need for Speed
Twisted
Zhadnost: The People's Party
Road Rash
Crash and Burn
Mega Race
Wing Commander 3,Heart of the Tiger
Out of this World
Flashback (has CG story scenes and better audio then the Jaguar, and controls better)
Guardian War
Wolfenstien (the 3DO version is the best. The music kicks ass. All the levels are there ,superior audio, it controls better, and the graphics are better then the Jag period.)
P'oed
Myst
Killing Time
Super Wing Commander
Pheonix 3
Shockwave
Shockwave 2:Beyound the Gate.
Tetsujin 1 and 2 AKA Iron Angel of the Apocalypse and,The Return
Burning Soldier
Star Blade
Off World Interceptor
Strahl
Syndicate
Trip'D
Theme park
Alone in the Dark 1 and 2
Star Control 2
Battle Chess
Space Hulk
Super SF 2 Turbo
Policenauts
Lucienne's Quest
Return Fire an Maps of Death Add on
Novastorm
Microcosm
Primal Rage (far better then the 32X and Jag CD ports in every way)
Royal Pro Wrestling
Princess Maker
Quarantine
Ultraman Powered
Montana Jones
Way of the Warrior
Blade Force
Samurai Shodown
Gex
Yu Yu Hakusho
Bust a Move
Capt. Quazar
D
Hell
Gridders
Sailor Moon
Demolition Man
Dragons Lair
The Horde

Im going to say too,yes the very first revision control pad with the FZ-1 wasn't the best. It def wasn't cheap,but the thumb pad was stiff and had issues, as was the Goldstar pad. Later Panasonic revisions do not have this problem. None of the official pads really felt cheap nor broke easy.

That all used the same types of ABS plastic and rubber as any other solid pad for other systems. I never had a single one break on me,nor on anyone I knew who used them heavily. Now the cheap third party pads,those tended to feel kinda cheap and broke down,but so did those same partys pads for other systems too, nothing new.

I like the Jaguar and 32X both alot. There are titles on them both I really enjoy,but in the end nothing on those systems other then a few of the titles on Jag can actually compete visually or audio wise with the 3DO (Doom, Wolfenstien, AVP, Ultra Vortek,not many others....). The 32X got some really great titles but is a no go on trying to be on the same level as the 3DO. To close this post I am posting a bunch of pics of 3DO titles during gameplay.

How I feel about it is this,you want to say the Jag or 32X was better,then their selection should be able to stand toe to toe with these games and its clear they cant. Since neither system did,it is pretty clear the 3DO was the best of the 3 in overall selection and system ability, hands down. Even if you hate the system for what ever personal reasons,it simply had the best and most games of the 3,and offered the best visual/audio experience.

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