Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo

[KnightWarrior]

Could this have been done on the 32X..like better Voices & Sprites...

[Genesis Knight]

IIRC it was planned for the 32x; there's cover art somewhere.

[KnightWarrior]

Really..Was Capcom far on it, was there any screenshots

[Joe Redifer]

Could this have been done on the 32X..like better Voices & Sprites...
Yes and yes. The backgrounds would have benefited from more colors as well even if they were generated by the Genesis since they could have used Genesis sprites to add color.

[108 Stars]

Afaik only Street Fighter: The Movie was planned for 32X...but SSF Turbo would have been absolutely gorgeous I believe.

[playgen]

Afaik only Street Fighter: The Movie was planned for 32X...but SSF Turbo would have been absolutely gorgeous I believe.

Was it mentioned or previewed in any magazines you're aware of? any more information known?

[108 Stars]

I only have the announcement in an old magazine...no screenshots or anything.

[playgen]

Any idea which magazine? so I can add that to the unreleased games list I do

[108 Stars]

It was a German magazine; an issue of the same one I scanned the Indy- and Jellyboy-Reviews. The magazine was called GAMERS.

[playgen]

Cool, thanks :)

[KnightWarrior]

I saw the preview of the game in one of EGM's

[Aarzak]

I don't remember from which magazine it was scanned from (I think it was a non-US one), but there was this one site years ago that had scans of this old magazine that had early screenshots of "Daytona USA" and I think either "Clockwork Knight" or "Panzer Dragoon", presumably running off 32X hardware. The PD screenshot in particular looked very crude compared to the final game, with the Dragon the protagonists ride on looking like it was composed of spheres ala Vectorman. Daytona also looked quite rudimentary compared to the final Saturn version. I don't know if these were 32X screenshots or if they were early Saturn screenshots. The sites and the aforementioned scans are apparently long gone.

I also SWEAR there was this one site that had screen shots of the oh-so-elusive Saturn port of "Virtua Fighter 3". I'd really like to hear and find out more about that sucker. Was it REALLY completed and ready for retail, then subsequently shelved and wrapped up in tons of red tape inside some SoJ vault in favor of the (underwhelming) Dreamcast port? I imagine what a playable port of VF3 could've done for the Saturn in Japan. The coin-op was at or near the top of the Japanese arcade charts for over two years dammit.

Back on-topic..........I doubt that a 32X port of SSF2T would've been as good as even the old 3DO port (first instance of arcade-quality SF graphics and animation on a home console, arguably the 3DO's killer app). Not only because of Capcom's inability (or as I've suspected, laziness and dislike) to program well for the Mega Drive hardware, but also because of the cart size limitation, which is why I also suspect that Capcom didn't port over it's 2D fighters to the N64 which at it's max had 2-4X more RAM than the PS1 & Saturn. Then again, there's also word about the N64 hardware having been worse at 2D than even the Playstation, and closer in 2D capability to the SNES. Yikes.

[Sega-17]

All things considered, the Genesis ports of SF2CE and SSF2 on the genesis were anything but lazy.

[j_factor]

Then again, there's also word about the N64 hardware having been worse at 2D than even the Playstation, and closer in 2D capability to the SNES. Yikes.

Whoever said that has probably not played Bangaioh.

[Aarzak]

That game aside, the lack of hand-drawn 2D games on the N64 was quite suspicious. Maybe it was indeed the cart space restriction that stuck again..........or all of the worthwhile 2D developers were over at Sony and Sega's camp.

Back to the Genesis and Capcom, the conspiracy theory that I put together a couple of months was that Capcom, which up until the late '90's was one of Nintendo's most loyal developers, was paid off or bribed by Nintendo to go about developing for the Mega Drive/Genesis in a half-hearted or non-existent matter. Outside of the Street Fighter ports, Capcom released only a handful of MD/Genesis games (Rockman Mega World, Mickey/Minnie Mouse: Great Circus Mystery, Saturday Night Slam Masters, farmed out the Genesis port of "The Punisher" to Sculptured Software instead of DOING IT THEMSELVES.......that was it). At least Konami, another faithful Nintendo developer since the '80's, left an impression on the MD/Genesis with original efforts like Bloodlines, Hard Corps and the English SCD port of Snatcher. But as far as the first two go, they up until recently were so far removed from their series' canon that they were overlooked.

Fortunately, Capcom later saw the errors of it's ways and greatly supported the Saturn and Dreamcast with their A-game 2D fighting game ports among other stuff. But few of the "big" Japanese developers wanted anything to do with the Mega Drive, either because they were scared of biting the hand that was feeding them or because the console was doing just that much abysmal over in Nippon.

But I digress again..........wasn't Capcom the first signed 32X developer to jump ship? Goes to show they weren't really planning to develop jack for it. Maybe developers were obligated to sign on to the 32X to be able to sign on for the Saturn as well, and when things quickly turned sour they all jumped without fail.............or something liek that.

[Joe Redifer]

I wouldn't call the 3DO SSF2 "arcade quality". Arcades have more than one page of backgrounds. They don't interlace for NO REASON. They don't have music that fades out and loops after a single minute (also for NO REASON as there is plenty of room on the disc for much longer tracks). They generally don't have super asstastic controllers. The missing BGs alone are enough to piss me off.

[Aarzak]

Well, I meant that the sprite sizes, colors and resolution and animation count were relatively close to the arcade version, much more than any previous 16-Bit SF2 port. The lack of parallax and RedBook-y music isn't arcade-perfect though and are well-known about the 3DO. But back in late '94 the port blew many (at least those who weren't burned out from SF2 by then) away and it was probably the highest-rated 3DO game by mags and the media. Between 1994-late 1997 it was one of the top 3 3DO killer-apps.

If the 3DO couldn't handle the load of parallaxed CPS2 backgrounds, then what does that say about a 32X port of Super Turbo?

[Joe Redifer]

It says that the 3DO had shitty design with an emphasis on "edutainment" and not actual action-oriented gameplay. The 32X could have easily have handled them.

[The Sports Guy]

I bet you they didnt make a 32X port because this system only had Sega's attention for about a month before people were jumping out of windows like in Robocop 3 for it. If your a game, and your name isnt Doom, Star Wars Arcade or Virtua Racing Deluxe or Knuckles Choatix, chances are no one at SOA really gave a rip about it. Its a shame, the 32X is a cool system and has some cool finds on it, such as NFL quarterback club. I wouldnt want a 32X port on it simply because someone there would have tried to make it like the same vein as such gruesome titles as Maximum Carnage (I unfortunately own a copy of it, its like your fighting in a vat of syrup) or T-mek.

[Joe Redifer]

Yes. If a game is on the 32X, it MUST be made by Acclaim and be bloody/gruesome like a shitty William's arcade game. It's rule #3 in the 32X dev manual.

[Aarzak]

"Maximum Carnage" was a pretty good game. Damn near impossible w/o all of the extra lives and helpers, but a good game. The SNES version's music and sfx beat the pants out of the Genny's one though. MC is much better than it's horribly generic, dry, pre-rendered sequel "Separation Anxiety" which unfortunately was the one with the 2-Player option.

I think SoA in a way tried to make the best of the 32X situation, and they wouldn't have been that arrogant to undermine certain games, as they needed every one they could get their hands on. But no Japanese developers outside of Sega & RED wanted anything to do with it after being dazzled by the Saturn just weeks later and receiving their SDKs, and no Japanese developer support almost always means death for a console.

Back to Super Turbo, back in '94 I figure there were more than a couple of fighting game/SF2 fans waiting for Super Turbo to be released on the Genesis or SNES, and a good indication of this is the piss-poor sales of the vanilla SSF2 ports which left Capcom backed up with lots of SSF2 inventory as they churned out tons of copies expecting people to scarf them up like it was summer of '92. One of the reasons I believe that we never saw 16-Bit Super Turbo ports is because not only had the vanilla SSF2 ports, as mediocre as they were, pushed both the Genny & SNES to their limits (the Genesis sound suite broke it's damn back just trying to replicate the digitized CPS2 music and sfx, and the SNES was pushing close to if not all 256 colors on-screen which really enhanced the gfx and exemplified the differences between it and the Genny port), but because they also pushed the maximum cart sizes to their limits (40 MB cart for the Genny port, many noticable missing sfx, animation and ending pics on the SNES port). The 32X's max cart size was also 32 MB, which was yet another flaw of it because complex 3D games that would've competed with first-gen PS1 & Saturn efforts surely would've been bigger than 32 MB. Don't know if this limitation was imposed or yet another result of the Genesis bottleneck. But, long story short, we would've never been able to see what the 32X could really do with Super Turbo or any other CPS2 title because of the damn cart size. The result wouldn't have been much more of an enhancement over the vanilla 16-Bit ports. And to think, Super Turbo was the LEAST advanced of every CPS2 title, still utilizing elements from the CPS1 SF2's.

[Sega-17]

Fact; had SSF2 on Genesis and SuperNES sold well, Capcom would have put out a super turbo version the following year.

[Joe Redifer]

Not sure where you're getting these "max cart sizes" from. With bank switching, you could have carts bigger than DVDs. Cheap? No. Well maybe in two years.

[Aarzak]

Well yeah, no one was daring to go past 32 MB as it would've been way too expensive and unappealing in the face of the cheaper PS1/Saturn CD's. I really don't know why both Genesis SF2 ports were a couple of megs bigger than their respective SNES counterparts. Only difference I saw was that the Genny SSF2 contained virtually every sound sample from the arcade, slightly more animation frames (Ryu's smooth switch from fighting stance to Hadouken in the intro) and every pic of every ending sequence.

[j_factor]

That game aside, the lack of hand-drawn 2D games on the N64 was quite suspicious. Maybe it was indeed the cart space restriction that stuck again..........or all of the worthwhile 2D developers were over at Sony and Sega's camp.

I agree that it was suspicious, but I think the reason may be that Nintendo was actually more anti-2D than Sony, despite popular belief.

[Joe Redifer]

I really don't know why both Genesis SF2 ports were a couple of megs bigger than their respective SNES counterparts.
Because it takes more code to do the same thing on the Genesis than it does on other consoles. That's the curse of the 68000 CPU.

[KnightWarrior]

What's bank switching..Can someone explain it & why SSF2 on the Gen needed it

[Joe Redifer]

I'm sure someone else can explain it better than I, but basically the Genesis can only access 32 MEGA POWER at any one time. Bank switching basically means another bank with more information. Think of it kind of like how a CD game loads data. It can only access the game data that is loaded at the time, but can access much more if the game goes back and loads more data. It is similar to that concept, only different.

[Sega-17]

SNK used bank switching for Neo Geo games in the late nineties. That's how they were able to get even more insanely large games out there.

[Aarzak]

Yup, the original non-bank switching, max cart limit for the Neo was 330 Meg, as proudly proclaimed in the opening BIOS screen.

The SNES if I'm correct also used bank switching, along with compression chips as well (S-DD1) to break through it's 32 Meg "limit".

But I doubt Capcom would've been willing to break it's back for another 32 Meg+ Sega cart, especially 32X...........they'd probably farm out the Super Turbo port to Probe or Sculptured Software or something.

[Joe Redifer]

Or Rutubo Games, which would make for a near-100% perfect port in every area. They did back in those days on those systems what Digital Eclipse can't even do on the current-gen consoles today!

[ary incorparated]

I have SSFT on genesis and actually it is just a watered down version of the snes,i think the most impressive genesis street figther game if street fighter turbo the music in that version pumps up better music then snes,thick bass and drum an clear synth and good graphics,if you can get youre hands on that then dont let something stop you.

I never got the purpose of bank swithching in the neo geo you can have a game like sengoku 3 that looks like a kof 2003,i always hoped i would see progress in the games but kof 2003 looks lesser then kof 2000 Graphic wise,the neo geo was near capcom snk only thing it was missing defnitly missing where the transparancy,s altough.I love the alternatives they used for speed etc in KOF and many others on that system it looked jaw dropping,FFRS had to be one of the best animated 16 bit games+MOTW etc the system is Jaw dropping and stronger in 2d then psx.Was the sega saturn capable of handling a good port of K.O.F 2000 it only got 94,95,96,97 if i am right i dont know why 98 and 99 werent released the saturn own psx in 2d department gaurdian heros to define that fact.


That game aside, the lack of hand-drawn 2D games on the N64 was quite suspicious. Maybe it was indeed the cart space restriction that stuck again..........or all of the worthwhile 2D developers were over at Sony and Sega's camp.

Back to the Genesis and Capcom, the conspiracy theory that I put together a couple of months was that Capcom, which up until the late '90's was one of Nintendo's most loyal developers, was paid off or bribed by Nintendo to go about developing for the Mega Drive/Genesis in a half-hearted or non-existent matter. Outside of the Street Fighter ports, Capcom released only a handful of MD/Genesis games (Rockman Mega World, Mickey/Minnie Mouse: Great Circus Mystery, Saturday Night Slam Masters, farmed out the Genesis port of "The Punisher" to Sculptured Software instead of DOING IT THEMSELVES.......that was it). At least Konami, another faithful Nintendo developer since the '80's, left an impression on the MD/Genesis with original efforts like Bloodlines, Hard Corps and the English SCD port of Snatcher. But as far as the first two go, they up until recently were so far removed from their series' canon that they were overlooked.

Fortunately, Capcom later saw the errors of it's ways and greatly supported the Saturn and Dreamcast with their A-game 2D fighting game ports among other stuff. But few of the "big" Japanese developers wanted anything to do with the Mega Drive, either because they were scared of biting the hand that was feeding them or because the console was doing just that much abysmal over in Nippon.

But I digress again..........wasn't Capcom the first signed 32X developer to jump ship? Goes to show they weren't really planning to develop jack for it. Maybe developers were obligated to sign on to the 32X to be able to sign on for the Saturn as well, and when things quickly turned sour they all jumped without fail.............or something liek that.


I know the n64 was lacking 2d games but not 2d possibility,s and its certainly not near snes even i know as a hardware noob,Ever seen games like Bangai oh or treasure,s mischief maker those are more impressive then any psx 2d game,s(capcom snk pro anyone) it had actually a real background,s real good working transparancys and the rest,at that time i only tought as neo geo aes and saturn as decent/good 2d coverters.As for 3d i dont like the n64 that much but on the other side golden eye,perfect dark and Sin and punishment beats the hell out of the psx and saturn also sin and punishment comes close to DC have you seen those explosion and laser,s all over the place,one word its sickness.

[Aarzak]

You provides good arguments and facts ary, but for the life of me, and with all due respect..............I can rarely if ever comprehend your eh, typing.

Rutubo Games? Hell yeah! I believe they still work with Sega to this day, on those "Sega Ages" compilations IIRC.

[Genesis Knight]

For the millionth time, Ary is using a speech-to-text, German-to-English translator.

[ary incorparated]

For the millionth time, Ary is using a speech-to-text, German-to-English translator.

i am not using any translator,its just my improvised english,a translator doesn,t work with my wordpad.I still need to install word and my keyboard is a bit off im missing keys.

[Sega-17]

Well, ary, this is probably the best way to practice your English.

We'll just have to tolerate your occasional lack of clarity, but you simply must use more punctuation.

[j_factor]

Well, ary, this is probably the best way to practice your English.

We'll just have to tolerate your occasional lack of clarity, but you simply must use more punctuation.

Occasional?

[Aarzak]

Well Joe, speaking of Rutubo Games, turns out they HAVE put together a couple of Capcom/SNK fighting game ports. They handled the Sega Saturn Shiro ports of "X-Men: Children of the Atom", "The King of Fighters '95" (w/ 1MB ROM cart) and "Fighters History Dynamite". From what I've seen, "Children of the Atom", the 2nd fighting game to really make use of the CPS2 hardware (the first being "Darkstalkers") and one of it's most animation-heavy fighting games, was ported quite well to the Saturn, and was one of it's earliest Capcom ports along with Capcom's own port of it's (inferior) "Street Fighter Alpha". These (with the exception of KOF95) were non-RAM cart enhanced Saturn ports I'm talking about.

Rutubo were also behind the "Sega Ages" Saturn ports of "OutRun", "Space Harrier" and "After Burner II", but not the infamous and disappointing "Power Drift"/Gale Racer and "Galaxy Force II" ports, which seemed to have been handled by a team who wasn't as proficient with ports like Rutubo was.

Sega had a love affair w/ Rutubo during the 32X & Saturn days, but it looks like the team behind the recent and latter PS2 "Sega Ages" compilations are simply known as M2. Dunno if they're a Sega second-party or independent developer.

With all that said, and in conclusion, Capcom more than had its hands full during 1994-1995, regularly outputting software for its arcade (CPS2) and consumer (SNES, Game Boy) divisions while at the same time transitioning towards PS1/Saturn development, so the Genesis & 32X were dead last in their priorities and for all intents and purposes DEAD in their eyes. So stick with that 40 Meg, vanilla Genesis port if you want to TC, cuz that's the closest to a 32X port there will ever be.

As far as this thread goes:

http://gameoverbison.ytmnd.com/

[ary incorparated]

Well, ary, this is probably the best way to practice your English.

We'll just have to tolerate your occasional lack of clarity, but you simply must use more punctuation.

I shall keep that in mind,i dont have that much of a problem with word,s but its more the problem with when i have to use ' , and dots,even in dutch some people can,t understand me.Anyways lets get back on this thread.

[tomaitheous]

Back on Topic..?

I agree with Joe. SF2 on the 32x would have been better than the 3D0 version. The 32x is stuck in high res mode (320 vs 256). The 32x could render the two main sprites/chars and some of the BG layers with it's beautiful colors, and the Genesis could handle the warping floor and the last layer of the BG.

[Joe Redifer]

Sega Saturn Shiro

That literally translates into "Play Sega Saturn". That is not the actual name of the system in any region.

[Aarzak]

I wasn't trying to pass that off as the system's name. Just sticking in a reference from the "Segata Sanshiro" commercials for the LOL.........but apparently not.

"Shiro" also refers to the White/Cream Sega Saturn model that became the base model after 1996.

[KnightWarrior]

Back on Topic..?

I agree with Joe. SF2 on the 32x would have been better than the 3D0 version. The 32x is stuck in high res mode (320 vs 256). The 32x could render the two main sprites/chars and some of the BG layers with it's beautiful colors, and the Genesis could handle the warping floor and the last layer of the BG.

that would work

[Dirt Ball Gamer]

Damn You Capcom! Its your fault the 32x bombed! I love Bangaio, got it on dreamcast, I can get throught the whole game but im stuck on the last boss on the last level. He's just too damn good!

[Aarzak]

Capcom is far from being blamed for the demise of the 32X. Hell, they probably never touched its SDK. They were the first third-party company to jump ship on the 32X however.

[Genesis Knight]

Not quite sure how Capcom made the 32X die...

[Dirt Ball Gamer]

I mean obviously they are not the real reason, but lack of 3rd party support Definitly had some to do with it failing as truly aweful as it did. It was bound to fail being an addon, but I feel if it got some backing and had some interesting games to back the hype it could have sold more instead of being a complete joke. I remember being young and seeing the 32x & thinking it would make my old genesis games have better graphix, and that made me want it, even though I would have been very disappointed had I actually gotten one back then. I bet if it just got some decent games it could have perhaps been the stop gap sega wanted it to be. Instead we got genesis games with better color for the most part, and that was what all the critics panned it for. If games like shadow squadron were the majority instead of the exception it could have at least garnered some following for us nuts that didn't want the genesis to die. A nice Street fighter game woud have been great. They were going to do Darkstalkers but canned it. Anyway im not saying anything that hasn't been done to death on here so I'll shut up now :)