PDA

View Full Version : You know what Sega should have done with the CD system?



Sega-17
11-28-2007, 08:07 PM
What if Sega and other major third parties released ALL of their major releases in Cart and CD options from 1992, onwards?

Therefore, people who owned the CD, could save 20-30 dollars on a release. Ideally, the games would have had no major additions (save for some loads) to necessitate the cheaper price. With 6Megabits of RAM, the Sega CD could have handled pretty much anything you threw at it (again, with some loads). All it would have required was some slight reprogramming.

As far as I'm concerned, the initial Sega Classics CD should not have been the sole release in that series.

This way, I think the Sega CD would have been perceived as an actual, valuable addition to your console. SNK did something similar with the NGCD - it released all the same games in the same window of time for a much cheaper price.

Was Sega THAT concerned with having their system being perceived as a Next Gen upgrade? I'm sure many people would have been happy with a cheaper, albeit more loady, version of a new game.

playgen
11-28-2007, 08:15 PM
One problem with that idea, if the CD games were exactly the same as the cart version, theres less reason to buy the CD add-on at all. You wouldn't spend hundreds on the megaCD just to save money on games later.

What the MegaCD really needed was games that actually made proper use of the medium, as in 2D games with tons of levels, lots of music, things that wouldn't fit on cart that you actually want, not crappy FMV. Problem is that costs money to do, more money than you save on using cds instead of carts.

But realistically the MegaCD would never have been a big succes whatever Sega had done with it, as it was an add-on. The whole point of consoles is that its a box you buy and don't have to upgrade - if you buy a game for a console you know it will work and don't have to think of compatability, so expensive add-ons are a hard sell.

Sega-17
11-28-2007, 08:21 PM
One problem with that idea, if the CD games were exactly the same as the cart version, theres less reason to buy the CD add-on at all. You wouldn't spend hundreds on the megaCD just to save money on games later.

What the MegaCD really needed was games that actually made proper use of the medium, as in 2D games with tons of levels, lots of music, things that wouldn't fit on cart that you actually want, not crappy FMV. Problem is that costs money to do, more money than you save on using carts instead of CD's.

But really the MegaCD would never have been a big succes whatever Sega had done with it, as it was an add-on, the whole point of consoles is that its a box you buy and don't have to upgrade, so expensive add-ons are a hard sell.


Games were pretty expensive back then. If you were a hardcore gamer, or a parent of gaming children, the benefit of saving 20-30 dollars (whatever the actual parts cost of the tech was back then) per cart would have added up.

All it would take was a one time purchase of 299. And as we all know, the price of the CD system dropped with time.

I think it would have worked well.

Of course, there would still be the occasional, worthwhile, technology pushing games that depended on the CD medium.

And I don't think it would have been too troublesome to throw in a remixed, redbook soundtrack on occasion. And even then, I was always a sucker for chiptunes anyways.

Psy
11-28-2007, 08:27 PM
What the SegaCD need was.... Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake using CD technology to throw in voice acting, also some comic book style cut scenes like in Metal Gear Portable Ops oh and Metal Gear for the MSX thrown in as is but with fixed dialogue.

Metal Gear really would have driven sales.

playgen
11-28-2007, 08:29 PM
But CD games wouldn't have been 20-30 dollars cheaper, the carts were mass-producd at the time so were made relativley cheaply. Of course some games that used larger chips - 32meg or whatever cost more because those wern't mass-produced chip sizes.

If the carts were too expensive for you back then, well you wouldn't be likely to have the cash to buy a megaCD unit either.

The fact that only a certain percentage of megadrive owners would ever buy a CD add-on, no matter how great it was, meant that CD games would inherantly cost more to make as theres less people to buy them and recoup costs from. Cd's may be cheaper to physically produce, but the development and potential sales also dictated their sale price. I certainly don't recall CD games being any cheaper at the time, which illustrates the point.

Even if CD games were cheaper to do, that doesn't mean savings will be passed onto the customer. Look at online distribution of modern games, their often the same price as retail copies, or have a tiny discount, as developers/publishers want to keep the extra profits.

Sega-17
11-28-2007, 08:38 PM
"Carts were too expensive for me back then," what is that, an insult? Games were expensive for 99% of the people who purchased them. They were an expensive entertainment. I think a lot of people would have been open to a way to save money on them in the long run. I mean, games were more expensive in the early 1990s than they were in the last two generations. PSIV was 100 dollars. An option to buy the same game on CD would have been nice. No one likes spending 100 dollars on one game, and that is not an issue of how big your pocket book is.


Fact, a CD is MUCH cheaper to manufacture than a cart. Dirt cheap. If all your doing is porting the game over to the CD, I can't imagine the extra development cost would be too much, especially, if the game was produced knowing that it would have to ported to CD.

All my idea entailed was having the same game available on CD, with little or no addition. Give the consumer a choice from the start.

I think this really would have been a very effective pricing model.

playgen
11-28-2007, 08:52 PM
I wasn't insulting you.
Most cart games wern't 100 dollars, only a few exceptions, and that price wasn't always just because of additional manufacturing costs, but because they could get away with charging that much for the games percieved superiority over other games.

Loads of cart games were sold cheaply, sega did a budget range of games, and prices fell on games so you could get them cheaply by not buying on release.

CD games wern't cheaper at the time, and many of the games were practically unchanged from their cart versions.

Joe Redifer
11-28-2007, 08:54 PM
I think if maybe they had HALO 3 on the Sega CD, it would have sold better than it did.

Sega-17
11-28-2007, 08:56 PM
CD games wern't cheaper at the time, and many of the games were practically unchanged from their cart versions.


Yup, that's called price gouging. And Sega paid dearly.

The whole point of my thread was to imagine alternative release and pricing models for the system and games. The fact that sega charged too much for its CD games helps my argument, (I hope). ;)

Psy
11-28-2007, 09:08 PM
I think if maybe they had HALO 3 on the Sega CD, it would have sold better than it did.
Except Halo 3 didn't come out till far past the life span of the Sega CD while Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake was released in 1990.

playgen
11-28-2007, 09:09 PM
Sega should have made the Megacd play DVD's, it should have had 24bit graphics, the games should have cost 50p each, and they should have released Super Mario kart on it :)

Megacd wasn't a succes because it was an add-on, an expensive add-on, an expensive add-on with games that wern't generally different enough from cart games other than the crappy fmv ones. Whatever the games cost those facts still remain. But ignore that and dream away at what might have been if you must

Sega-17
11-28-2007, 09:14 PM
Sega should have made the Megacd play DVD's, it should have had 24bit graphics, the games should have cost 50p each, and they should have released Super Mario kart on it :)

Megacd wasn't a succes because it was an add-on, an expensive add-on, an expensive add-on with games that wern't generally different enough from cart games other than the crappy fmv ones. Whatever the games cost those facts still remain. But ignore that and dream away at what might have been if you must


I think you're missing the point, but if it's easier for you to make fun of me, more power to you.

Psy
11-28-2007, 09:14 PM
Sega should have made the Megacd play DVD's, it should have had 24bit graphics, the games should have cost 50p each, and they should have released Super Mario kart on it :)

Megacd wasn't a succes because it was an add-on, an expensive add-on, an expensive add-on with games that wern't generally different enough from cart games other than the crappy fmv ones. Whatever the games cost those facts still remain. But ignore that and dream away at what might have been if you must
PS3 is far more expensive and people are planning to buy it just to play Metal Gear Solid 4

playgen
11-28-2007, 09:18 PM
I think you're missing the point, but if it's easier for you to make fun of me, more power to you.

If your point is that people would have spent $300 to save money on the next game they bought, then no I haven't missed your point. I'm not making fun of you, I don't know you, I'm poking fun at the fact people always seem to be going on about what sega should have done, rather than what they did right - which surely must have been quite a lot, otherwise you wouldn't be on the forum.



PS3 is far more expensive and people are planning to buy it just to play Metal Gear Solid 4

Ok I get it you love Metal Gear! :)
quite how that relates to this I'm not sure, unless the PS3 is an upgrade to the xbox 360 and 360 owners are buying one just to play the game...

Iron Lizard
11-28-2007, 09:24 PM
As much as I cherish my memories of playing Snatcher and the Lunar series I think the best thing Sega could have done for themselves would have been to not release the Sega/MegaCd at all.

Joe Redifer
11-28-2007, 09:26 PM
I agree, the Sega CD should have had the ability to play DVDs and Super Mario Kart should have been the pack-in game. Stupid Sega.

Psy
11-28-2007, 09:29 PM
Ok I get it you love Metal Gear! :)
quite how that relates to this I'm not sure, unless the PS3 is an upgrade to the xbox 360 and 360 owners are buying one just to play the game...
That the SegaCD could have survived with a killer game (this is what it was missing), a game that makes people run out and by the add-on just to play the game.

j_factor
11-28-2007, 10:32 PM
CD games wern't cheaper at the time

Yes they were. Maybe it was different in the UK, but here they were. No Sega CD game was ever more than $50 and many were less than that. Some cartridge games were $50 but a large number were $60-70. Ecco 2 was $60 in cartridge form, $50 on CD. Sonic 3D Blast had a bunch of graphical improvements on Saturn and a new special stage, and it was $20 cheaper than the Genesis cartridge. I can't think of very many examples because it was so long ago, but you get the drift.

Iron Lizard
11-28-2007, 11:50 PM
I think the price of the system was far too high even when lowered. Most kids I knew wanted one when they came out. Its near lemon status didn't followed a few years later. For the price a kid could buy a SNES at the time. It was only the Sega nuts like my brother and I who picked a Sega CD up. When it came out all the games looked amazing.

Psy
11-29-2007, 10:52 AM
I think the price of the system was far too high even when lowered. Most kids I knew wanted one when they came out. Its near lemon status didn't followed a few years later. For the price a kid could buy a SNES at the time. It was only the Sega nuts like my brother and I who picked a Sega CD up. When it came out all the games looked amazing.
I still think it was the line up of games that gave SegaCD its poor sale performance. Sega mostly was using FMV games to show case the SegaCD but Sega could have took all the money they threw at Digital Pictures and instead have thrown it at say Konami and to pitch a port of Metal Gear 2:Solid Snake for the SegaCD going into all the stuff that can done like comic book like cut scenes, unlockable artwork, voice acting and CD quality music. That is just the best title that could have show cased the SegaCD, showcasing what the SegaCD is good at.

Benjamin
11-29-2007, 11:21 AM
As much as I cherish my memories of playing Snatcher and the Lunar series I think the best thing Sega could have done for themselves would have been to not release the Sega/MegaCd at all.

Yep. Contrary to what those who misread my Sega CD story think, I also see lots of nice software on the system and have some fond memories as well. The problem is that the Sega CD forced Sega to split its focus and allocate quite a bit of resources into marketing and developing an add-on instead of growing the Genesis brand and making way for the Saturn. Of course, all this is hindsight as we all bought the things Sega put out.

The low cost of CDs and ability to feature several games on a single disc was one of the early points Sega used to sell the machine with never materialized. Some could say it was just greed which kept Sega CD CD-ROM discs so high while it could also be just Sega looking to recoup the costs of launching, marketing, and developing for a new product. It also would make business sense to not lower the price of games as many would devalue Genesis software in the minds of consumers, which didn't need any price cuts due to its existing success.

Still, I think it's pretty obvious that Sega's fall started with the Sega CD. So much was wrong with how it was handled, and that carried over to the 32X and Saturn. None of this means the units were worthless or didn't have some great games available for it, but each successive release further tarnished the Sega brand to the point where it would still manage to help destroy the runaway success of the Dreamcast. :(

Zebbe
11-29-2007, 11:44 AM
But realistically the MegaCD would never have been a big succes whatever Sega had done with it, as it was an add-on. The whole point of consoles is that its a box you buy and don't have to upgrade - if you buy a game for a console you know it will work and don't have to think of compatability, so expensive add-ons are a hard sell.

How come so many of the PC Engine buyers got a CD add-on to their console then?

playgen
11-29-2007, 11:57 AM
Heh I just knew someone would come up with an arguement to that statement. Its the exception that prooves the rule, but history is still littered with failed console add-ons. The PCengine was the first console to use CD's which would have been a big factor in its success, the add-on came out in 1988 and CD's were all new and impressive then. Not that CD's wern't impressive in the early 90's too, but PCengine had already got there first and it seemed everyone else was already adopting the CD route. Also games were released that actually made use of the size of CD's, adventures, RPG's, lots of animations etc. But they only ever cracked the Japanese market, as thats what they aimed most games at, so it wasn't all good news, the Turbografx CD add-on didn't do well in the US, and didn't even come out in Europe.

Zebbe
11-29-2007, 12:16 PM
That, and the fact that the CD add-on was like half the price in Japan compared to Sweden (who had a financial crisis during the Mega CD launch). My only complaint on the system would have been the price. I love the game library and the overall "feel" the console has.

playgen
11-29-2007, 12:22 PM
The MegaCD was too expensive for people to buy, but anything CD related was costly then. The first CD drive I bought for my computer cost something daft like 200

I would never have bought a MegaCD back in the day, but now its cheap its a nice addition to the collection. FMV games I would have hated at full price become fun novelty games at a few quid each off ebay. To me the MegaCD is a better system now than it was when it came out.

Psy
11-29-2007, 01:47 PM
The MegaCD was too expensive for people to buy, but anything CD related was costly then. The first CD drive I bought for my computer cost something daft like 200

I would never have bought a MegaCD back in the day, but now its cheap its a nice addition to the collection. FMV games I would have hated at full price become fun novelty games at a few quid each off ebay. To me the MegaCD is a better system now than it was when it came out.
True but if there was no 32x and Sega did a bit better job pushing the SegaCD then by the Saturn era the SegaCD could have become a medium of choice for the ageing Genesis.

Lord Dilks
11-29-2007, 03:44 PM
What the Sega CD needed was throwing off a very tall building, preferably onto the head of whatever mug invented it.

Mr Smith
11-29-2007, 03:44 PM
Sega shouldn't have bothered with the Mega-CD at all. It was a pointless add on that ulitmately caused their downfall. The 32X was also a tosh "console" and Sega should have saved their resources to duel with the PlayStation and N64.

Psy
11-29-2007, 04:11 PM
Sega shouldn't have bothered with the Mega-CD at all. It was a pointless add on that ulitmately caused their downfall. The 32X was also a tosh "console" and Sega should have saved their resources to duel with the PlayStation and N64.
I think it was worth it as it allowed voice acting in games along with more complected cut-scenes, also it could have played a bigger role if Sega continued to support the Mega Drive as by the mid 90's it would be much cheaper for Sega to release titles on CDs then on carts especially if Sega switched to regular jewel cases to take up less shelf space. Add MegaCD compatibility to the Saturn through a add-on and the MegaCD format could have become a budget platform for older games and for games that didn't have the resources for the license to get on the new consoles or make use of their power.

Zebbe
11-29-2007, 04:12 PM
You guys need to be "Snatched".

Elusive
11-29-2007, 05:03 PM
Sega shouldn't have bothered with the Mega-CD at all. It was a pointless add on that ulitmately caused their downfall. The 32X was also a tosh "console" and Sega should have saved their resources to duel with the PlayStation and N64.

Hahaha, nonsense. 'Conserving their resources' - i.e. not producing anything - would only make things worse, not better. Like trying to save your money by sitting staring at the wall all day rather than working a job.


step 1: cd addon to mega drive developed, released
step 2: ???
step 3: downfall: sega hq on fire, blue sky levels plummet, puppies no longer adorable



hindsight: 2007 solutions to 1994 problems, brilliant, we've saved sega hooray!!

Rusty Venture
11-29-2007, 06:03 PM
I Think SEGA should have taken more time to think about how to fully exploit the advantages of the CD format.

The mind boggles at if something like SOR2 was done with full CD audio and larger move list.

Psy
11-29-2007, 06:14 PM
I Think SEGA should have taken more time to think about how to fully exploit the advantages of the CD format.

The mind boggles at if something like SOR2 was done with full CD audio and larger move list.
Like I said Metal Gear 2:Solid Snake would have been a perfect show case game for the SegaCD if they added decent voice acting on top of comic like cut scenes like in Metal Gear Solid:Portable Ops that would have greatly improved the experience from the MSX2 version.

Mr Smith
11-29-2007, 06:38 PM
Hahaha, nonsense. 'Conserving their resources' - i.e. not producing anything - would only make things worse, not better. Like trying to save your money by sitting staring at the wall all day rather than working a job.
Sega had a fantastic console in the Mega Drive and then go and release the Mega CD (followed by the 32X). It's more like trying to save money by quitting a job as a company director and going to work as a truck driver.



step 1: cd addon to mega drive developed, released
step 2: ???
step 3: downfall: sega hq on fire, blue sky levels plummet, puppies no longer adorable
Puppies always will be adorable, wash your mouth out, sir, for suggesting otherwise.
http://img01.picoodle.com/img/img01/7/3/11/f_cutepuppym_1069e43.png
Step 2 is the 32X.


hindsight: 2007 solutions to 1994 problems, brilliant, we've saved sega hooray!!
You're just jealous because I could have saved Sega had I been in charge in 1994.

Psy
11-29-2007, 06:57 PM
Sega had a fantastic console in the Mega Drive and then go and release the Mega CD (followed by the 32X). It's more like trying to save money by quitting a job as a company director and going to work as a truck driver.

Think of what would have happened if Sega supported the Mega Drive into the late 90's and beyond, there would be a growing problem of the price of cartridges and shrinking price one could sell a new Mega Drive game, the MegaCD would have allowed Sega to use the cheapness of CDs to keep the Mega Drive going right into the Dreamcast era like how Sega was still supporting the SMS right into the launch of the Saturn.

Joe Redifer
11-29-2007, 09:11 PM
The Sega CD had as much right to exist as the PC Engine CD-ROM did. It didn't cause anyone's downfall and I doubt people would have started blaming Sega for "not supporting their systems" if it had not been for the 32X. The Sega CD sold quite well, all things considered. The biggest problem with the Sega CD is that Sega of America became friends with Digital Pictures.

Rusty Venture
11-30-2007, 12:42 AM
I shall never forgive the invention of FMV games.

I know some actually like some FMV games, but I find them to be about as fun as being repeatedly kicked in the balls with cleats.

Dirt Ball Gamer
12-25-2007, 02:02 AM
The Sega CD had as much right to exist as the PC Engine CD-ROM did. It didn't cause anyone's downfall and I doubt people would have started blaming Sega for "not supporting their systems" if it had not been for the 32X. The Sega CD sold quite well, all things considered. The biggest problem with the Sega CD is that Sega of America became friends with Digital Pictures.

Agreed, even though I kind of liked crap like sewer shark, they should of stayed the hell away from digital pictures, those fmv games were expensive projects to produce ive heard. They should have focused on games with effects like soulstar and good rpgs etc.

KnightWarrior
12-25-2007, 04:51 PM
Drac X
Madden Football
Sonic CD 2
Super Street Fighter 2 X

Should of came out on the Sega CD

mick_aka
12-25-2007, 07:14 PM
I shall never forgive the invention of FMV games.

I know some actually like some FMV games, but I find them to be about as fun as being repeatedly kicked in the balls with cleats.

You should play Gabriel Knight 2, in my entire gaming history it is the only FMV game I can actually tolerate, and would go so far as to say that it's in my top 20 video games of all time.

What we should have had around 1993 was a 32bit CD add-on (effectively the 32x build into the mega/sega CD) as a precursor to the Saturn, and Sega's new console should have been totally backward compatible with the 'Sega CD32X' software.

I remember after getting my first Saturn I was genuinely apalled and distraught that my Mega CD titles I kept after sellling on my Mega CD would not work on the saturn.

As loyal as I am to the console, poor managment,marketing and planning during the Saturn era has to be blamed more for damaging sega than the CD and 32X.

What Sega actually needed was a Saturn that could accept all Mega Drive/Genesis, CD and 32X games, either through the cart slot or CD drive, even if that added $100 to the already hefty launch price I think that level of backward compatability would have been a HUGE seller.


No console on its own can be held responsable for damaging SEGA, but only SEGA themselves.

Dirt Ball Gamer
12-27-2007, 02:08 AM
I agree with all that, don't know if they could have managed a 32 bit cd add on in 93 but it would have probably sold like hot cakes if the price was right and would of put sega over nintendo. What system is gabriel night 2 on btw?

mick_aka
12-27-2007, 09:45 AM
Gabriel Knight 2 was PC CD-ROM only as far as I know.

BlowMyCartridge
12-27-2007, 03:27 PM
FMV games are awesome, just ill-suited for the Genesis's limited hardware capabilities.

Silanda
12-27-2007, 05:53 PM
I agree with all that, don't know if they could have managed a 32 bit cd add on in 93 but it would have probably sold like hot cakes if the price was right and would of put sega over nintendo. What system is gabriel night 2 on btw?

It would have been nice but I can't see how it would have been affordable. If Sega skimped on giving the Mega/Sega CD a greater colour palette to save a few dollars, a 32 bit add on wouldn't have really been viable. Back in those days video game companies weren't as fond of making massive losses on the hardware as they are now.

lordofduct
12-27-2007, 06:41 PM
you know what sega should of done with the SegaCD?


MAKE IT OUT OF CHOCOLATE!!!! mmmmm

seganutt
12-27-2007, 06:57 PM
How could you have not wanted one way better than what was on offer at the time.Sega should have played it smater with price and better games. Then i think it would have done ok i still have mine first model off course

Psy
02-04-2008, 12:37 AM
What we should have had around 1993 was a 32bit CD add-on (effectively the 32x build into the mega/sega CD) as a precursor to the Saturn, and Sega's new console should have been totally backward compatible with the 'Sega CD32X' software.

Back then it would probably mean a MC68EC020 like the Commodore CD32, but then what would be the point of it just being an add-on at that point? The 32-bit CPU would be bottlenecked trying to use the Genesis chipsets.



I remember after getting my first Saturn I was genuinely apalled and distraught that my Mega CD titles I kept after sellling on my Mega CD would not work on the saturn.

As loyal as I am to the console, poor managment,marketing and planning during the Saturn era has to be blamed more for damaging sega than the CD and 32X.

What Sega actually needed was a Saturn that could accept all Mega Drive/Genesis, CD and 32X games, either through the cart slot or CD drive, even if that added $100 to the already hefty launch price I think that level of backward compatability would have been a HUGE seller.

That was a mistake on Sega's part. They had the Power Base Converter for the Genesis but no such device for the Saturn.

Iron Lizard
02-04-2008, 01:20 AM
I just think its odd that Sega could have had what turned into the N64 instead of the Saturn.

Psy
02-04-2008, 12:03 PM
I just think its odd that Sega could have had what turned into the N64 instead of the Saturn.
The N64 had issues too and not just the size limitation of carts, for starters the N64 development kit made the Saturn's devlopment kit look easy as Nintendo's devlopment documentation was piss poor (were Sega's documentation was simply massive and written in a dense technical langauge.). Then the N64 had a limited texture cache, the N64 also had far more bottlenecks then even the SegaCD, for example while the N64 had fast RAM the CPU had to go through chips slower in order to access the RAM. While developers bitched about the Saturn, more bitched about the N64.

Black_Tiger
02-04-2008, 09:34 PM
Heh I just knew someone would come up with an arguement to that statement. Its the exception that prooves the rule, but history is still littered with failed console add-ons. The PCengine was the first console to use CD's which would have been a big factor in its success, the add-on came out in 1988 and CD's were all new and impressive then. Not that CD's wern't impressive in the early 90's too, but PCengine had already got there first and it seemed everyone else was already adopting the CD route. Also games were released that actually made use of the size of CD's, adventures, RPG's, lots of animations etc. But they only ever cracked the Japanese market, as thats what they aimed most games at, so it wasn't all good news, the Turbografx CD add-on didn't do well in the US, and didn't even come out in Europe.

The reason that the Turbo-CD didn't do well in the U.S. or even come out in Europe is because of how poorly the TurboGrafx-16 itself performed/was handled. A pricey CD-ROM isn't going to save a failing console(it didn't work for the Jaguar either).

The Megadrive wasn't a huge success in Japan and their CD-ROM came out after the successful PC Engine CD-ROM.

Maybe if the Megadrive was bigger in Japan and the PCE CD-ROM wasn't such competition, then japanese developers would've supported the Mega-CD as well as they have the PCE CD-ROM... and if the Mega-CD took off and got good games, then maybe the Sega-CD would've had the software it needed to capture the North American audience...

But the Turbo-CD/Duo's lack of success wasn't the CD-ROM format.




The N64 had issues too and not just the size limitation of carts, for starters the N64 development kit made the Saturn's devlopment kit look easy as Nintendo's devlopment documentation was piss poor (were Sega's documentation was simply massive and written in a dense technical langauge.). Then the N64 had a limited texture cache, the N64 also had far more bottlenecks then even the SegaCD, for example while the N64 had fast RAM the CPU had to go through chips slower in order to access the RAM. While developers bitched about the Saturn, more bitched about the N64.

Plus the only advantage that N64 games have visually over decent Saturn games is blurred out textures(if thats an advantage). DS ports of N64 games look like Saturn games.

Iron Lizard
02-05-2008, 12:27 AM
I can't despute any of those facts. I just think its an odd thought.