Legacy of the Z80 Sound Cip Vol. 1 [Archive]

ary incorparated

12-28-2005, 02:56 PM

youre right,Md did not do much orchestrals but snes didnt do much guitar stuff,But it couldnt,Md could produse more sounds instead of channels ,like more kinds of guitar synth therefore Comix zozne Lightning force etc Which i preffer most.But then aggian a genises could produse more sounds if it would i was just pointed on that,The psg chip is like the standart ms schip it has 4 channels of its own and the z80 offcource 6,6+4 makes 10 but mostly the psg just is standart to make the music of high quality an speed it just gives more layers to the music and sometimes more speed to make it puls waved like parts of z80 drum filled with Psg drum Pulse wave chip.Sega could do 10 channels if they would but then you dont have background sound or at least it would be very difficult to let every thing sound very clear.BTW the megadrive is supperior to the snes in sound it has games that have the best composers and it has a stereo Fm eqaulizer plus modulator.Sorry for my not that good english.So you learn things on forums where you can go into deeper,I think much that genesis could do is never done that much it was a extreme console that even could beat the snes if you have a good search in the hardware,Vectroman prove that,And than the genesis also came out as one of the first what some people dont see and just say snes is better and dont look at age.sega was ahead of its time almost always and even megadrive prooves that if you know the hardware MD could do better but that would ask the whole systems hardware,every piece of hardware in that thing ,but than the so called blast processing(dont if its treu)would be over and be traded by slowdown maybe a bit or much. ;) ,If im not right please let me know what i wrote wrong . ;)

Melf

12-28-2005, 03:03 PM

I think the article was a little unfair in directly comparing the Mega Drive's 'inferior' Z80 to the SNES' 'superior' sound chip. The SNES came out in 1993, the Mega Drive 1990. Three years' difference. Of course one will be superior.

Actually, the MD came out in Japan in '88 and the SNES in '90 or '91 (don't remember when it launched over there), but it's still the same difference I guess.

I still think the chip is underrated, as listening to the scores in Phantasy Star II, Wonder Boy in Monster World, or Sword of Vermilion show just how good it could sound.

ary incorparated

12-28-2005, 03:48 PM

yup thats totally right MD has a uge wavepallette,Snes could do guitar as much as MD because of the missing FM ,MD can do drum a bit and some times even the drum sounds fair,Listen to skitching then you know what i mean,I looked at the forum that Samudra has shown in its post but could be logged in bummer.I see there are still people that totally dont stick with what their the post was going about.They just make it one big competition and pissing about the poor MD sound cart,First it isnt poor second yes sega had some of the best composers third sega had music that suited the system,from bass booming sounds to Techno and rock and it has Drum hear mega tutticane battle mania 2(good drum and either good guitar)Md had more fast paced music and had more fast paced games becuase of the fast processor,Ive never seen Road rash 3(the best road rash i think)on the snes and on the MD its freaking fast and the music has the metal you expect The music is some times even IN youre face.I was stunned by some Megadrive tracks,even S.O.R 3 and then people still talking about that snes sounded like CD,If you want to do that comparisment then go whit the 15 channeld neo geo AES and then youre talking right.32x atleast boast the snes With Knuckles ghaotix thats extreme orchestral stuff sometimes.i better preffer Guitar and drum,techno than almost only orchestral a bit rock and just synth music.The md is far way limited like i sead.The genesis maybe is the metaliest 16 bit console maybe exept for neo geo but also even better than Gba(i think)

GeckoYamori

12-28-2005, 08:48 PM

Genre doesn't really matter. You could make fantastic orchestral music on the Mega Drive if you were good enough. Listen to Story of Thor or Bio-Hazard Battle. It may not sound very real, but the atmosphere is totally there. They were really good at getting that massive feel in the darker tones of brass instruments, unlike the SNES sample counterparts where the instrument's native pitch was always very high to preserve space.

j_factor

12-29-2005, 12:57 AM

SNES's music to me has a tendency to have this sort of "phony hi-fi" sound to it... it's good for ambient tunes, but not much else.

Mendicant

12-29-2005, 04:09 AM

I still think the chip is underrated, as listening to the scores in Phantasy Star II, Wonder Boy in Monster World, or Sword of Vermilion show just how good it could sound.
I agree. It's the software that defines the hardware it's running on, not the other way around.

Along the same lines, didn't Rock and Roll Racing also have MIDI versions of Deep Purple and Black Sabbath?
HEH!! I remember almost jumping the first time I heard "Paranoid" (by Sabbath) in R&RR. "Bad to the Bone" as the title track was nice and all... but Black Sabbath?!? In a videogame?!!?! :D

GeckoYamori

12-29-2005, 05:53 AM

ary incorparated

12-29-2005, 08:30 AM

SNES's music to me has a tendency to have this sort of "phony hi-fi" sound to it... it's good for ambient tunes, but not much else.

I don't know what you mean with 'phony hi-fi', but the SNES was locked at 32khz (22khz was standard for MD games but if you were smart enough you could raise it to 44khz) and lacked a lot in the lower ends, removing a lot of bass. If anything, the MD completely decimated the SNES in the ambient department which can be very bass heavy. Just listen to Sub-Terrania.

And I do believe Alien Soldier should have replaced Vectorman in that article. Production-wise Vectorman sounded pretty half-assed in my opinion, then again it was more than likely made with GEMS.

Its strange that the snes use 32 khz,I bet megadrive music was going way faster tahn snes music,Musha thunderforce etc,Maybe i understand it wrong but in speed i tought the MD was supirior compared to snes,in music than.or do jist many games use 44khz instead of it?.

GeckoYamori

12-29-2005, 08:42 AM

I didn't mean that kind of frequencies, I basicly meant sound quality (44khz is crisper than 22khz), not speed.

ary incorparated

12-29-2005, 10:32 AM

Oke Thanx,so that means that snes was crisper most of the by using a 33 khz processor,i can agree with that,sometimes genises is a bit crispy with games like batman and robin but still i think its better,hearing streets of rage 2 is fine,same as more titles.i didnt hear much crisp in snes games,but neither much in genesis. ;),thats right that genesis can gets a bit crispier,not in the music but in sounds sometimes indeed its crispy.With the emulator fusion you can set youre own sample rate ,dont know for shure.some games dont have the right sample rate,and therefor sound a bit crispyer. ;)

j_factor

12-29-2005, 07:42 PM

SNES's music to me has a tendency to have this sort of "phony hi-fi" sound to it... it's good for ambient tunes, but not much else.

I don't know what you mean with 'phony hi-fi', but the SNES was locked at 32khz (22khz was standard for MD games but if you were smart enough you could raise it to 44khz) and lacked a lot in the lower ends, removing a lot of bass. If anything, the MD completely decimated the SNES in the ambient department which can be very bass heavy. Just listen to Sub-Terrania.

What I meant by the phony hi-fi thing is that many SNES games seem like they're faking a higher sound quality, and it actually sounds worse (usually). For an immediate example, check out the intros to each version of Flashback -- the SNES version has a "higher quality" sound that actually sounds worse. For an example of an SNES game that has this 'phony hi-fi' sound but uses it to its advantage, listen to Sparkster.

When I said ambient I didn't mean the genre of music, I just meant... audible ambience. Like the opening parts of EarthBound and Super Metroid; you don't really hear those kind of sounds coming out of the Genesis.

It's hard to explain, as I can't think of a good adjective. But.. listening to lots of SNES music, I can hear this certain quality aspect that seems to be very pervasive.

Genesis Knight

12-29-2005, 08:38 PM

Well, I'm sorry people were so unsatisfied with my article. I didn't say that these were the only scores worth listening to - I just said they were good. I assume subsequent editions of this article thread will come forthwith.

Melf

12-30-2005, 11:07 AM

Dude, no one is unsatisfied! You've sparked some awesome debate and discussion here, which is what good articles do. :)

j_factor

12-30-2005, 02:02 PM

Who's unsatisfied? You've brought us into some interesting discussion, and the article itself was fine...

ary incorparated

12-30-2005, 05:10 PM

im not,i was even learning a bit more thanx to those discussion.i dont know very much about technical specs of the mega drive,still learning ehy.

Genesis Knight

12-31-2005, 01:27 PM

Geez! I'm incorrect even in my self-degredation!

ary incorparated

01-01-2006, 12:22 AM

Those gnesis games like shinobi,road rash streets of rage etc are very good in the music department,that explains enough i think.Maybe they dont use the max of the z80 but like shinobi beeing very old sound very up to date is a prestation for its time and for genesis.Yuzo did a awesome job.the music is far way from limited,its composed max and sound master.over al no compliants at al.this is a intressting toppic.

Mendicant

01-01-2006, 02:56 AM

Geez! I'm incorrect even in my self-degredation!
And don't you forget it!! :D

ary incorparated

01-03-2006, 09:05 PM

one thing i disliked about the artical was,Sunset riders beeing in the top of the z80 sound cart.first sunset rider is a port second it hasnt got that good music i can remind me allot better sounding titles like Battle mania 2 etc.Like skitching was way better at that place,like if you want to hear real in your face guitar grunge music,Skitching is youre game,damn that game had heavy heavy guitar,and even Drum that sounded very pumped,oke the game was decent but the music Damn,i love that slow,fast guitar rifs with pacing Drum.That game really dedicates band music,pedaling bass drum slap bass and damn good Fm loops for guitar.who agrees with me that some tiltes arent on place like sunste riders,BTW susnet riders isnt really a effort for the z80 it just has fun music plus its been ported so no effort,if sunset riders may have a place then you also could place games like Rocket knight adventure.Really guitar is al about Thunderforce 4 battle mania 2,musha and Skitching.I found it real good music but not better then TF 4,because TF4 is fast paced but in skitching the guitar is on its place and some tunes are funky and some real grunge,The ultimate skating music by its time and for the console,the guitar is a bit on the same level as TF4 but its not that fast paced and has some glitches,But it has Drum which TF 4 hasnt got that much(doesnt need)Who agrees with me that its a really good article but just a few titles out of place.Its all about skitching really if im going to make a site With ary incoprparated(lol)then i place the Eat my junk song in the opening. :D

ary incorparated

01-13-2006, 04:58 PM

or m,aybe comix zone,BTW why is the z80,at least it doesnt sound like it,much snes ports do lower quality then the megadrive.Demo man Dessert strike Tournament fighters,I enjoyd md music Streets of rgae 1 tm 3 etc dont know why it has to be limited since having the Psg and Dat to help the main z80,Aladin sounds great Tommy tallirico Thender force 4 Comix zone all with atitude,i know a better thing,How can i make a toppic.Personal favorits 1tm10 the best z80 performances top ten. :D

ary incorparated

01-25-2006, 06:54 PM

Aaah i remember a freaking good game with freaking good music,it was Musha aleste,that one should own respect for its music since the game came out in 91. :D

Joe Redifer

01-25-2006, 07:01 PM

It was indeed a freaking good game with good freaking music and it totally freaked me out! :)

ary incorparated

01-26-2006, 04:02 PM

I almost had that game for 5 euro,s.i didnt recieve it from the mail,i ordered it from www.marktplaats.nl. Now i hate the TPG post a bit for beeing so damn lazy,and that they would go find out where the package might have been,I went to the postoffice and theyre where acting lazy and they sead come back when it costs over 50 euro then we only could do something.I shouted at the guy,that i didnt loss it but they did and they are responsible,I was in a really Bad mood then,affcoures while hopefully getting a game that normally goes over the 40 euro,whille i could have had it for 5,but finally im waiting over 3 months,still no response so i lett that be and they just are lazy screw ups at TPG post Holland. :D

16bitter

01-28-2006, 03:08 AM

SNES's music to me has a tendency to have this sort of "phony hi-fi" sound to it... it's good for ambient tunes, but not much else.

The Genesis had some good music, but I can't agree that the sound chip or its general successes were of a higher quality or rate than the SNES at all.

The Super Nintendo definitely had far better sound in the main.

Joe Redifer

01-28-2006, 05:37 AM

The Super Nintendo could do better samples. The Genesis only had one PCM channel whereas the SNES had 8. The SNES couldn't do synthesized sound as well though. The Genesis had 6 channels dedicated to frequency modulation and 3 dedicated to programmable sound generating. As a rule the SNES will sound more like a recording than the Genesis ever could, but depending on how that is used, it is not necessarily better especially when the samples are cheesey. It is entirely subjective and definitely depends on the game.

ary incorparated

01-28-2006, 09:16 AM

WTF snes better sound,no no no.Ports prove it wrong,Demo man Jungle strike Dessert strike etc.ever heard good guitar on the snes,the snes has more like some kind of Trompet sound and a bit nicer drum,But snes has that low sound somethimes,really low,esspecially when they are trying to do guitar imitation.Come on name more then 5 titles for snes with hard,Guitar or techno music that these titels do,Come on compare the DK music to Thunder force 4 or Contra HC

Name titles that have faster,sharper sounding and more focussed beats then the folowing titles

Batman and Robin
Thunder force 4
Contra hard corps
Ranger x
Aww this is a good one
Demolition man.

My friends never where into game music no never,But since they like heavy metal.when they llistning to Thunder force 4 they ware amazed of the Guitar rifs that came out the little blackbox,what snes title catches yought in terms of music,never known a snes title doing better guitar,which catches youth,Like snes never could do the quality of road rash 3,snes never got any Road rash,I think people probably would cry of seeing how fucking slow the snes processor is,and that guitar on snes cant be a good isseu.snes has more orchestrial songs which are mostly boring,Final fight for instance couldnt match Streets of rage in sound,probably the biggest dissaster on snes in music,demo man,snes trying to do the same guitar as megadrive and ended up very slow sounding and just worse,Batman and robin,the megadrive version brings Upp beat Bass techno,while the snes version aggain is laughable slow and has symphonic Btamn music,intressting that it can be done on snes but not Fun to listen to.Starfox sounds good but is not something to store on youre ipod or MP3,bit to boring,Like why is there a megadriver and not someone reliving only snes songs in metal,A ather one that sounds worse Sparkster.Relying sound chip is not relevant,its about how the music is composed and what the composer could do with the sound chip.My friends love Thunder force 4,they compare it to Ramstein,metallica but a bit diffrend. :D I think its not comparable,Batman and robin on MD awed me and was using all available channels,6+4(psg) and it was hearable,snes couldnt do the bass,those recording smaples MD could do them to but difficult. like GBA Gekido, ,that one sound good but the song dures 30 sec,and goe,s over aggain,Crue ball had midi instructions,that where samples,the game sound very thin but fun.the genesis had sharper music,more pitched to the relam of instuments,Snes was more typicall keyboard stuff,orchestrals etc plus snes sounded very low and more Low and uses some kind of Trompet beat(hera the Street fighter 2 intro)like if megadrive had their own made version of street fighet and may do with it what ever they wanted,the genesis intro would be going more like a guitar riff.Genesis music was more based on Band instruments(guitar Drum bass)snes is more based piano wings orchetrial music.

j_factor

01-28-2006, 03:33 PM

GeckoYamori

01-28-2006, 04:16 PM

That depends completely on what the priorities were. Voice samples in SNES games could be pretty bad if there's a lot of music involved at the same time, leaving much less room for voice sample size. When there were scenes with nothing but voice samples playing, there was hardly any difference in quality. Compare the Super Metroid intro to the Pulseman ending.

Genesis Knight

01-28-2006, 06:18 PM

I couldn't believe how horrible Samurai Showdown SNES sounded compared to the Genny version. Just awful! :shock:

ary incorparated

01-28-2006, 07:18 PM

What is that for comparisment,Gecko,Pulseman has a bit hardcore music,compared to yes orchestrials.For instance compare music in the same genre,Compare Demolition man for genesis to the snes version.(genesis wins.)Hmmm orchestrials and tehcno betas,Maybe Ranger z would cut it,It has bit guitar,orchestrials upp beats etc.I think Noramally snes is more one of slow and symphonic music,or Synth tunes in megaman.While megadrive does the upp beat and fast paced music,which fits the style of the gensis and the processor is moified for that.Like you need a good processor to to proces the meat the game offers,Like snes is not blending much meat at the smae time because the processor is to slow to do everything at the smae time,Not one snes game wowed for its music,Actraiser sounded great but still i personally prefer the heavy metal kind of tunes on megadrive way more then snes,Whil snes only did orchestrial music,gensis did upp beat Hardcore,And Guitar Riffy stuff,One dissadvantage megadrive has is the drum.But thats not a major problem,since it is availeble,only not much top drums.in the end,the genesis offers more genres of music behind games,BTW snes has more then 60% of Rpg games,while Genesis vary,s very much between the games. :D

ary incorparated

01-28-2006, 07:21 PM

Genesis night,the same for Demolition man,Jungle strike,Dessert strike,Batman and robin on snes,they sounded dull and pathetic compared to genesis,like the music in Demoman for snes is soooh Damn slow thats some tunes sound like beeing farted becuase the bass is over processed,and the coordination of the songs or are worse. :D

16bitter

01-28-2006, 09:43 PM

My main point of contention with SNES vs. Genesis music is exemplified by Battletoads Double Dragon. The Genesis version sounds like it should, wheras the SNES version has been badly upsampled and sounds worse.

The SNES sound chip is greatly superior for voice samples and sound effects, but the Genesis sound chip beats it for music.

Really? I've been playing the infamous Castlevania IV and Bloodlines -- IV makes Bloodlines its bitch on orchestration.

The Genesis had a lot of techno, from what I know, to cover up for its deficiencies in musical output.

GeckoYamori

01-28-2006, 09:57 PM

Most of CV4's instrumentation (Save for the strings) suffered from that cropped sound with barely any release at all in the envelopes. This ruined a lot in the more melodic tunes, like when the drums start in Simon's theme and especially the remixed music. Bloodlines may sound much more synthesized, but the sound is fatter and fuller, and Michiru Yamane is a superior composer. Her arrangement of Simon's theme was overall better than the CV4 original.

16bitter

01-28-2006, 10:00 PM

CIV simply sounds a hell of a lot better. I don't know how anyone could objectively listen to the two trracks and come away with the impression that Bloodlines was superior.

In fact, this is the first time I've heard the argument made that Bloodlines competes with IV in this area.

GeckoYamori

01-28-2006, 10:07 PM

The ambient parts were what made CV4 shine, however I never found anything truely defining about them. There are only 2 tunes from the game I really favour, the waterfall/cave music and Simon's theme (Save for some quality quirks). Like I said, Michiru was a much better composer in melodic terms.

ary incorparated

01-29-2006, 06:49 AM

Drixxel

01-29-2006, 01:16 PM

But 16 bitter,didnt Contra hard corps made contra 3 its bitch,Didnt batman and robin made batman and robin on snes its bitch,Didnt Aladin on genny made aladin on snes its bitch,Didnt story of thor made zelda link to past its bitch.Didnt Demolition man made Demo man on snes its bitch,Didnt the steets of rage serie made the Final fight serie on the snes the Whore.And for backupp in music games,Musha ,Thunderforce4 ranger x,Comix zone,and way and way more games.Name counters for these games no matter what 16bitter,prove to me youre beloved snes sounds better then genesis.

There is little reason to argue against you as long as you demonstrate such a pointlessly competitive Genesis > SNES attitude like that. There are fundamental differences in the strengths of the Genesis and SNES sound chips. Can you invision the soundtracks to Actraiser, Super Metroid, or Final Fantasy III being pulled off effectively on the Genesis? No, exactly the same way that the soundtracks to Streets of Rage, Thunder Force, and M.U.S.H.A. simply would not work on the SNES.

I'd much rather keep an open mind to all game music regardless of the hardware its running on and just try to enjoy as much of it as possible. That being said, Genesis and SNES music have a very different feel, but learn to love them both and you'll be rewarded with some stellar compositions. It took me quite a while to come to the realization that the Genesis was capable of so much more than soundtrack bunglings like Chakan (how could they let the game sound like that..!?!), but it's something I eventually overcame, and it was only then that I started to notice all of the great Genesis music I'd missed.

..and good lord man, I rather enjoy Demolition Man too, but it's no clincher in any argument of SNES vs. Genesis. The game is not that important! It's just another multiplatform release that happened to be better on one console than the other!

ary incorparated

01-29-2006, 06:07 PM

Drix im not the one who started it upp aggain,I know that snes has nice music,like i sead Actraiser Dk country more calm music,Oke the music isnt as jougthy as the gensis but isnt a bother at all just calm and fits the themes.But who started all over aggain with uhh castelvania bloonlines had worse music and that castelvania 1V was better in music,thats bullox i know that it has a diffrent style of music,not 100% orchestral,Bloodlines has a light guitar sample on the background of every song that would make it a bit fuller deu the limitation of Orchestral music.If someone else need to start over and Sneakly trying to say that the snes made the genesis its bitch,then he can expect a counter since im ia bit sega ya know.We sead tons off time stop these comparisments but why dont they,and if they dont i dont eyh i dont have to be a exeption.No offens but youre reply is the same as sead before and you know it didnt stop(the comparisments)i know it goes about genesis supremecy and that the sound is a whole diffrent story both on snes and genesis but if someone has to say casstle vania 4 is better then bloodlines(comparisment)i react back and i say wats better on genesis,simple as hell.And BTW drix this post wasnt involving you,i sead nothing wrong about you that would lead you to a argument.

j_factor

01-29-2006, 06:13 PM

Really? I've been playing the infamous Castlevania IV and Bloodlines -- IV makes Bloodlines its bitch on orchestration.

You really think so? I've heard far more complaints about IV's soundtrack than Bloodlines -- many people downright hate Castlevania IV's sountrack. Personally, I think it was pretty good in the game, but only the first stage's track was memorable. Bloodlines... has its moments. The two are rather different and it seems like an apples and oranges comparison to me.

The Genesis had a lot of techno, from what I know, to cover up for its deficiencies in musical output.

I don't follow -- one could just as easily say, "The SNES had very little techno, from what I know, to cover up for its deficiencies in musical output."

SNES seems to only do ambient well. I don't recall ever hearing anything on SNES in the same vein as The Ooze's soundtrack, or rave like Contra Hard Corps, that was actually done well.

I guess whether the latter is more important than the former is purely subjective. But I don't think you can say that one blows the other away.

Melf

01-29-2006, 07:16 PM

Hmm, I personally love IV's soundtrack. That cave theme is so soothing!

Drixxel

01-30-2006, 01:31 AM

My personal SCIV favourite has to be this here track (http://s10.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1TJ0NL9NLNV9Z2ZLTH94ALTAYZ). That one drips moodiness, not to mention a heapin' pile of awesome. .. but really, I like the whole soundtrack. The complexity of it, the variety of the instruments.. in fact, I've heard the soundtrack to SCIV referred to as being the birth of a new era of game music. That's admittedly a lofty claim, but damn.. SCIV just sounds damn good, in both a sound quality and a ompositional sense. In my opinion, anyway.

If the gods had a favourite cave, I bet the SCIV cave theme would play in it. Unfortunately, the gods favour the clouds, where Kid Icarus music plays all day... the poor bastards.

Joe Redifer

01-30-2006, 02:33 AM

Super Castlevania IV has awesome music, much better than Mediocre Castlevania IV (ha ha OK not funny). I like most of the tracks. I knew when I rented the Super Famicom version back before it came out in the US that Castlevania IV (Super or not) would be the best game ever for the SNES. And it is, in my opinion. I don't care about SNES RPGs. In fact I just played some SCIV less than 20 minutes ago... IN S-VIDEO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Super Castlevania IV is my 3rd favorite Castlevania game ever, right behind Symphony of da Night at #1 and Dracula X at #2.

ary incorparated

01-30-2006, 07:32 AM

Urm,I listened to the SCIV sound track Drix,Halfway impressed,actually nothing supirior for a snes,reminds me of some bleedpy music i heard in shinobi 3,dunno why but shinobi 3 had the same style of music,only a bit more japanese fit.But im not impressed by this song,maybe other songs of that game catch me,I loved some songs out Donkey kong 3,but i cant find the music of that game.

16bitter

01-31-2006, 04:26 AM

You really think so? I've heard far more complaints about IV's soundtrack than Bloodlines -- many people downright hate Castlevania IV's sountrack. Personally, I think it was pretty good in the game, but only the first stage's track was memorable. Bloodlines... has its moments. The two are rather different and it seems like an apples and oranges comparison to me.

I was mainly going on the quality of output rather than artistic composition -- though I think that SCIV has a fine score on both counts. Bloodlines gets blown out of the water under the first criterion, which negates the second issue so far as comparison.

If it's apples to oranges, then that apple is wormy.

I don't follow -- one could just as easily say, "The SNES had very little techno, from what I know, to cover up for its deficiencies in musical output."

I think that's stretching it quite a ways. Like saying that somebody who has to have voice box has abilities that someone with a normal speaking voice lacks. Um, yeah.

The Genesis, as was my point with Bloodlines, had trouble with anything other than techno because its sound hardware is inferior to that of the SNES.

Techno was easier for the Genesis to do than orchestrated or what one might call traditional scores, because of its edge and rawness -- which rather fit the inferior Genny sound chip. I can't recall a SNES game that failed at techno output, but I can think of many Genesis games that failed in comparison to the SNES as far as orchestration.

I'm rather surprised that anyone would claim otherwise at this late date.

SNES seems to only do ambient well.

I don't really know how to take that as descriptor, so it's a non-starter on this end.

Ambience is what scores tend to be synonymous with, or at least aim for depending on medium and the abilities therein. Stereo's considered better than mono, and whether we're talking albums for music purely or scores for films or games it's something that plays as overlay and narration to events and ideas, permeating them -- which, of course, would give it an ambient quality; that quality of encompassing the area and the art.

All that is to say that musical pieces are overwhelmingly ambient.

I guess whether the latter is more important than the former is purely subjective. But I don't think you can say that one blows the other away.

Only if you consider the difference between the Playstation and SNES to be subjective in this area, as an example. Technologically, and as far as results generally, the SNES wins over the Genesis here.

16bitter

01-31-2006, 04:30 AM

As far as SNES vs. Genesis on sound hardware, it's not an argument for me that somehow equates to the SNES being the better overall system just because it sounds a good bit better in the main.

If somebody said that the Master System was better then the NES as a piece of technology I'd agree. If they then said that the Master System was a better system altogether I'd wholeheartedly disagree.

Same thing applies in this instance.

If the argument of hardware tech decided which system was best or "won" purely with no other considerations, then the XBox 360 would right now stand as the greatest system of all time. The 3DO would be remembered as hell of a lot better than the SNES and Genesis, let alone the NES. So on.

Yeah. Right.

Joe Redifer

01-31-2006, 05:34 AM

I like my movies scored. Rarely do I enjoy my videogames "scored". Videogames are not movies nor should they be treated as such. Granted there are definitely times when a lavish orchestral score is appropriate. But personally I enjoy it more when a game just has good music. Fitting music that is catchy and hopefully has great hooks and lots of them. I don't give a rat's ass if it's all strings or techno. Hell, techno is far more appropriate for most videogames that symphonic. I don't think Phantasy Star IV would have been better if it had a lush symphony playing every tune. It would have been worse. Just like Final Fantasy 6 (hate it though I may) would have been worse if it had a soundtrack by Tommy Tallarico instead of Nobuo Uemastu.

16bitter

01-31-2006, 06:19 AM

I like my movies scored. Rarely do I enjoy my videogames "scored". Videogames are not movies nor should they be treated as such.

I don't know what that means exactly in relation to musical choices.

Granted there are definitely times when a lavish orchestral score is appropriate. But personally I enjoy it more when a game just has good music. Fitting music that is catchy and hopefully has great hooks and lots of them. I don't give a rat's ass if it's all strings or techno. Hell, techno is far more appropriate for most videogames that symphonic. I don't think Phantasy Star IV would have been better if it had a lush symphony playing every tune. It would have been worse.

So does that mean that music for the PS2 or XBox, which tend to have far more traditional musical standards, is automatically or generally inferior? Is the soundtrack to GTA:VC less "game music" than the theme to Sonic? And by what standard? There are many varied examples I could use, leading to the same questions.

I don't necessarily -- or at all, if we're to define it by an over-arcing standard for games -- agree with your premise, especially on techno, but nonetheless it argues something that I haven't been in this thread.

What I disagreed with was the idea of the Genesis being better at sound output than the SNES in a technical sense. That's it. The rest of this seems to be a rather strained attempt to "defend" something that was not truly under attack to begin with.

Just like Final Fantasy 6 (hate it though I may) would have been worse if it had a soundtrack by Tommy Tallarico instead of Nobuo Uemastu.

Lyrical or plain soundtrack creation is a different beast from output confines within the given hardware.

GeckoYamori

01-31-2006, 07:11 AM

If we want to get technical there was hardly any Techno on either of the systems. The only music I think accurately fits that description would be a handful of tracks from SoR3 and the Mega CD version of Brutal.

Once again, to say that a synthesizer is technicly inferior to a sampler really doesn't work. None of them can be expected to do everything. The YM2612 is generally considered inferior because people base their opinions (Much like everything else in the world of gaming) on ports of SNES titles, which is anything but a fair comparison. Port Sonic the Hedgehog over to SNES and I assure you it would sound worse. The lack of synthesis on the SPC chip would be too much of an obstacle to recreate most of the brilliant sound effects.

Joe Redifer

01-31-2006, 06:25 PM

Is the soundtrack to GTA:VC less "game music" than the theme to Sonic?
Obviously. One was created specifically for a videogame and the other(s) were created to make money on the pop charts in the 80's. The only thing they have in common is that they happen to be in a videogame.

And by what standard?
By my standard, which is the only one that matters, of course.:cool:

ary incorparated

01-31-2006, 06:54 PM

There better be a forthcoming vol. 2 to this, because I read it thinking, "where's Comix Zone? where's Toejam & Earl? where's Contra?"

One game that should've been included out of principle: Crue Ball. Just for that crappy MIDI rendition of Dr. Feelgood. It's so bad it's good!

Crappy midi Of motley crue. J did you hear the origenal,Way worser

He,s the one who makes,

"dr feelgood"

He,s the one who makes you feel alright.

Or something,I actually like some songs from that game,Fuzing frenzeaaay,Live wire and Home sweet home,I tought the music in that game was nice,but not that pressent,it has not much drum.I heard the origenal music Damn talk abiut simple,the origenal tracks are fun.

Melf

01-31-2006, 08:48 PM

LOl, I remember my friends and I running out to play Crue Ball, only to have our collective jaws hit the floor at just how crappy the music was.

16bitter

01-31-2006, 09:19 PM

The only thing they have in common is that they happen to be in a videogame.

Which is exactly my point.

And I repeat:

So does that mean that music for the PS2 or XBox, which tend to have far more traditional musical standards, is automatically or generally inferior?

Joe Redifer

01-31-2006, 10:45 PM

Dude when you start talking PS2 or Xbox my mind starts wandering elsewhere. But if music is created specifically for a videogame, then it is videogame music. If the music was created for another reason but used in a videogame, then it is just licensed music. Superior or inferior is subjective.

16bitter

01-31-2006, 11:25 PM

Dude when you start talking PS2 or Xbox my mind starts wandering elsewhere.

That doesn't really answer my question or stand up to the issue present. At all.

If the music was created for another reason but used in a videogame, then it is just licensed music.

If it's used in a video game, it's a video game soundtrack. Or does GTA:VC not have a soundtrack?

A Cameron Crowe film is just as scored as, say, a Leoni film even though one musically narrates through known pop songs. Both contain film music and overall soundtracks, and are there for the art.

No difference with a video game.

Superior or inferior is subjective.

The question was related directly to what makes "video game" music.

I already knew that your point was subjective as to the standard you set out. You didn't need to tell me. :D

My point in regards to this subject, on the other hand, is purely factual.

Drixxel

02-01-2006, 12:51 AM

Clearly Joe's definition of "video game music" differs from what you, 16bitter, describe as a "video game soundtrack." Joe defines video game music as music composed explicitly for use in a video game. You define a video game soundtrack as any music appearing in a video game. Whereas your definition of video game soundtrack encompasses Joe's description of video game music, it doesn't work the other way. Seems pretty clearcut. He recognizes a licensed game soundtrack as something detached from video game music, regardless of the fact that it still may appear in a video game. Perhaps a better term to avoid confusion would be "exclusive video game composition"... this excludes licensed soundtracks completely.

Personally, I have much more respect for an original musical score than a licensed soundtrack, be it in a video game, a film, or otherwise. If I were to associate one over the other with what I think to be "video game music," it would most certainly be that which is unique to the game and not a transplant of "cool songs" to appeal to rebellious wannabe skater kids.

16bitter

02-01-2006, 03:22 AM

Clearly Joe's definition of "video game music" differs from what you, 16bitter, describe as a "video game soundtrack." Joe defines video game music as music composed explicitly for use in a video game. You define a video game soundtrack as any music appearing in a video game. Whereas your definition of video game soundtrack encompasses Joe's description of video game music, it doesn't work the other way. Seems pretty clearcut. He recognizes a licensed game soundtrack as something detached from video game music, regardless of the fact that it still may appear in a video game. Perhaps a better term to avoid confusion would be "exclusive video game composition"... this excludes licensed soundtracks completely.

Well thank you for explaining that, but trying to make the two sides subjective doesn't really work. Which is what this argument has now become about, rather negating your outline above.

If it's in a game, it's that game's music. It doesn't get any simpler than that, or factual.

There's no such thing as a game soundtrack that isn't "truly" a game soundtrack. Not beyond a byzantine and biased outlook that you can't expect anybody else to follow.

If a game has specific music on its soundtrack you can't really objectively say that that is not its music -- connectively, it is then a video game soundtrack. The end.

Joe Redifer

02-01-2006, 03:32 AM

That doesn't really answer my question or stand up to the issue present. At all.
I am trying to give a shit, but I really don't. I made a general comment which was not an attempt to explain anything and you try to dissect it. Does everything I say need to relate to what you are trying to argue about? Geesh what an ass!

The question was related directly to what makes "video game" music.

Yes and I've explained it TWICE. I think you just want to argue. I will no longer discuss this with you as I think you are wrapping your head around this far more than needs be.

16bitter

02-01-2006, 04:24 AM

If you make an assertion, I expect you to back it up at least so far as explaining your thinking more fully. It seems you can't do that, and are now taking my questions both too seriously and too personally.

If you don't want response and possible disagreement, then I'd suggest you reevaluate what mb's are for.

I am trying to give a shit, but I really don't.

Then why are you responding?

If you had an argument, you'd make it. Instead, all you can do is whine.

I made a general comment which was not an attempt to explain anything and you try to dissect it. Does everything I say need to relate to what you are trying to argue about?

You were trying to find yet another way to defend the Genny sound hardware, going so far as to call non-techno music less appropriate for game music. I took issue with it and pointed out how ludicrous your statements were in relation to general game music.

So, now that you have no argument whatsoever, you're reduced to simply telling me off for ever arguing with you in the first place. Boo hoo.

Geesh what an ass!

Better than being a half-witted dumbass who can't constract a logical argument to save his life. Much better.

The desperate fanboyism of this thread has been good for a laugh.

Yes and I've explained it TWICE. I think you just want to argue. I will no longer discuss this with you as I think you are wrapping your head around this far more than needs be.

You haven't once answered the question as to what truly makes game music -- you instead decided to focus on the nature of VC's "licensed" soundtrack which didn't fully relate to the larger question of what game music is or can be, at least so far as your answer/rebuttal of it as a point of contention here. The issue is how one soundtrack can be deemed any less a part of its game -- regardless of quality -- than another.

That's where current-gen DVD hardware, such as PS2 and Xbox, fits into this conversation. As I've asked again and again, are most, or many, soundtracks not "truly" game music on these systems? Gimme a break.

The rose colored view of all things Genesis has taken you to the point of saying technically superior sound hardware is somehow inferior or unwanted for "real" video game music, which is something I consider more than a bit ridiculous.

ary incorparated

02-01-2006, 04:46 PM

come on 16 bitter keep it real,16 Bitter = Quote.You dont have to be right al the time,it isnt a competition,keep forums joyfull.give Joe right,i understands what he is saying and it is obvious to me,everybody has their own answer obout thing and Dude go and respect that,If you know everything better then everybody and have to be Qoute master Go discuss with Yuji naka or with Shigeru miyamoto,Yeah go tell Miyamoto that megadrive is worse and didnt even come close to the Snes,How nintendo Shiggy is thats the repect for his origenalit,But i think if you tell him that MD sucks compared to snes he would punce you in Tha face,even he know competition was worth it.If you want the real deal of youre Wanna be fact,go talk to Shiggy and trow all the Fanboy shit at him,he just says I dont care i just wanna be old,i told you to live it,and go play youre social live instead of Quoting.Youre like the Ridler,only you dont get the Question,You get the answer directly.I think people appreciate it if you serve them right sometime,Give em the time to Quote to and probably agree with em ones,Dont be stubborn and think youre right or that you are better in Quoting then everybody else.No offens just make the forum a bit more fun by Qouting a bit lesser,Admit you lost discussions or drop them,So Fucking what if you lost in youre facts,its only been Written.

j_factor

02-01-2006, 11:06 PM

The Genesis, as was my point with Bloodlines, had trouble with anything other than techno because its sound hardware is inferior to that of the SNES.

I don't get why you keep saying this. There are only a handful of Genesis games that have techno soundtracks. A good 99% of the library is other, miscellaneous non-techno music. Do you mean to imply that Genesis music is just crap all-around, that the audio hardware is so bad that it was constantly struggling from Day 1, or what? That seems more than a little hyperbolic.

Techno was easier for the Genesis to do than orchestrated or what one might call traditional scores, because of its edge and rawness -- which rather fit the inferior Genny sound chip.

I feel that you're placing an arbitrary value judgment here. I mean, it's not as though you can make techno music on any pipsqueak sound chip from the 80s; it requires significant range and variation on multiple levels.

I can't recall a SNES game that failed at techno output, but I can think of many Genesis games that failed in comparison to the SNES as far as orchestration.

I can't recall an SNES game that attempted techno output. Please, give me an example, as I'm drawing a complete blank here.

On the other note, there are as well plenty of SNES games that failed in comparison to the Genesis in this area. It just depends -- some soundtracks played to the genny's strengths, others played to SNES's.

I'm rather surprised that anyone would claim otherwise at this late date.

Me too. Genesis having better music is something that most people have agreed on, in my experience. I used to post on the ZSNES board years ago, and the consensus even there was that the Genesis had superior audio for music (but not for sound effects). This is the first time since the mid-90s that I've ever heard anyone seriously argue otherwise.

I don't really know how to take that as descriptor, so it's a non-starter on this end.

Ambience is what scores tend to be synonymous with, or at least aim for depending on medium and the abilities therein. Stereo's considered better than mono, and whether we're talking albums for music purely or scores for films or games it's something that plays as overlay and narration to events and ideas, permeating them -- which, of course, would give it an ambient quality; that quality of encompassing the area and the art.

All that is to say that musical pieces are overwhelmingly ambient.

Uh... what? 'Ambient' is environmental music... you know, like Brian Eno.. I don't know what you're talking about here.

Only if you consider the difference between the Playstation and SNES to be subjective in this area, as an example. Technologically, and as far as results generally, the SNES wins over the Genesis here.

Playstation uses a different medium, and has the ability to stream prerecorded audio directly off CD; that's not an apt analogy at all.

Technologically, the Genesis has a TI 76489 chip that handles PSG (4 channel) and a YM 2612 dedicated to FM synthesis (6 channel); the SNES has a Sony SPC700 in charge of everything (8 channels). The SNES benefits from MIDI support, but lacks synth. The lack of synth is fairly limiting.

Melf

02-01-2006, 11:53 PM

Discussion's cool and all, but please leave the insults out. No need to get personal.

ary incorparated

02-02-2006, 01:02 PM

Okay,sorry 16bitter.no offens just was bit over line while i read my text aggain.

gaMEthuselah

02-03-2006, 09:12 AM

Just thought I'd put my 2 cents in.

To me it really doesn't matter which sound chip is better than the other. It's what they do with it. We can rave on about the technicalities of both, but we're not going to change our opinions on it. In the end, it's the result that matters, and how you stand against it.

The guitars in Thunder Force 4 obviously don't match the clean quality of the guitars of, say, SNES's X-Men: Mutant Apocalypse, while X:MA's guitars don't quite match the intensity and punch of those in TF4. Bottom line though: both scores are nice to listen to and suck me into these games.

If one knows how, and it's in your tastes, you can make music from a harmonica just as enjoyable as the music from a full fledged orchestra. And enjoyment is, eventually, what it's all about.

gMt - æ

Drixxel

02-03-2006, 05:35 PM

^ Exactly.

The strength of a composition can transcend whatever limitations exist for a given instrument, as long as that composition plays to the strengths of the instrument it's played upon. In this case, the instrument is a sound chip, and it's entirely up to personal preference which one you believe to be the better sounding of the two, in exactly the same way someone might prefer the sound of a grand piano over an acoustic guitar.

I think in the much-debated Genesis vs. SNES example, the ultimate preference largely has to do with which one you were exposed to earlier.. from there, as the years pass, nostalgia and ultimately brand loyalty come into play, and these two things make a truly objective point of view impossible.

This argument over hardware strength means absolutely jack shit in the grand scheme of things.. I mean, some of my favourite game music of all time was composed for the Game Boy, and if someone were to tell me that the Game Boy was an antiquated piece of shit the day it was belched out of Nintendo's frothy maw, I'd simply play for them one of my favourite Game Boy tracks. If they didn't like it, I'd move on.. it doesn't particuarly matter. If they genuinely didn't enjoy it, that I completely accept, but if they were acting irrationally and refused to approach the situation with an open mind.. let them continue to live in ignorance. That in itself is punishment enough.

There are areas of audio that the Genesis is more adept at than the SNES, and vice-versa. That being said, there were songs made for one console that would have been better handled on the other. The two consoles have very recognizable audio distinctions.. in fact, take any song from any soundtrack for any game developed for either the Genesis or SNES, I'm sure that just about all of us here could guess which console it's from from how it sounds alone. Does it really matter which one had the "better" sound chip? Only in a fanboy console war.

...and damn, it really irks me when the entire genre of electronic music is refered to as 'techno.'

Joe Redifer

02-03-2006, 06:25 PM

Sorry Drixxel, if music is being produced or made by any kind of electronic equipment, it's techno. That includes ActRaiser, man. :)

Drixxel

02-03-2006, 06:28 PM

My rage is now unstoppable...!!!!

Genesis Knight

02-03-2006, 08:07 PM

"Sorry Drixxel, if music is being produced or made by any kind of electronic equipment, it's techno. That includes ActRaiser, man."

Wrong. We're talking genres here, and genres are the same no matter what the medium. Classical music on the Genesis is not techno. It's synthesized classical music, bottom line. Just because a track is presented in a bleepy form due to old hardware doesn't make it techno. You wouldn't call modern FF music techno, would you? No. Neither is ActRaiser or Beyond Oasis. They're just crappy renditions of orchestral music. =P

GeckoYamori

02-03-2006, 08:37 PM

You fail at detecting sarcasm.

Drixxel

02-03-2006, 08:47 PM

The warning signs are often times subtle, much like gamma radiation. Identified early, the condition poses no threat! Unfortunately, Genesis Knight, your internet persona is ridden with the sarcastic equivalent of tumours. Hideous, hideous tumours!

gaMEthuselah

02-04-2006, 03:30 AM

To get back on topic: just a suggestion, I'm sure this has been thought of before...

Perhaps for a possible next installment of this article, one could have members post Top-5 of games with their favourite music, and compile the top favourites into an article. I bet many titles of the current article would come out favourite again though.

I agree with most of the titles in the article. Good selection.

gMt - æ

16bitter

02-04-2006, 08:19 AM

I don't get why you keep saying this.

Because that's my opinion. The Geneisis sounds best with techno tracks, and much of the time sounds poor with something more traditioinally symphonic -- as it is with my Castlevania comparison.

Do you mean to imply that Genesis music is just crap all-around, that the audio hardware is so bad that it was constantly struggling from Day 1, or what?

Did the NES "struggle" from day one? No. But it did become outdated from a technical perspective.

Against the NES the Genesis tended to sound great. Against the SNES, it was almost a total reversal of fortune.

That seems more than a little hyperbolic.

Well I never said what you're applying to my side, so it seems that hyperbole is more your fault than mine.

Case in point...

There are only a handful of Genesis games that have techno soundtracks. A good 99% of the library is other, miscellaneous non-techno music.

99%? I think this is a rather hard to swallow claim. Even the feature praising Genesis music tracks has about a third of its examples devoted to games with techno.

For reference: techno

SYLLABICATION: tech·no
PRONUNCIATION: tkn
NOUN: Any of various styles of dance music characterized by electronic sounds and a high-energy, rhythmic beat.

I know I can remember a hell of a lot of games for the system that had musical scores that could be credibly alligned with the above description.

I feel that you're placing an arbitrary value judgment here. I mean, it's not as though you can make techno music on any pipsqueak sound chip from the 80s; it requires significant range and variation on multiple levels.

What does that have to do with whether or not the Genesis could do sound as well as hardware two years its junior?

I can't recall an SNES game that attempted techno output. Please, give me an example, as I'm drawing a complete blank here.

Nothing comes to mind. At the same time, the point stands -- and works as a mark against your statement about the SNES's lack of ability on techno tracks, which was where my reply on that matter stemmed from to begin with.

If you can't recall the system ever using techno, it's rather silly to accuse it of failing in that area. Isn't it?

Uh... what? 'Ambient' is environmental music... you know, like Brian Eno.. I don't know what you're talking about here.

Musical soundtracks by their very nature tend to be ambient.

Playstation uses a different medium, and has the ability to stream prerecorded audio directly off CD; that's not an apt analogy at all.

Yes, it is. My point was that you could easily tell the difference between the sound quality of a PS game and that of an SNES game -- just as it was typically with the SNES and the Genesis.

I never tried to conflate carts with discs; I was making an argument on generational upgrades, and the noticeable difference to both the lay person and audiophiles between the systems mentioned.

Technologically, the Genesis has a TI 76489 chip that handles PSG (4 channel) and a YM 2612 dedicated to FM synthesis (6 channel); the SNES has a Sony SPC700 in charge of everything (8 channels). The SNES benefits from MIDI support, but lacks synth. The lack of synth is fairly limiting.

And yet the SNES sounded better overall probably 80-90% of the time. It's generally acknowledged that the Sony soundchip was a work of beauty on that system.

But if you want to think otherwise I can't stop you. Just as I can't stop people from -- at least outwardly -- believing that Bloodlines blows CIV away aurally. I suppose it comes with the territory -- though as a Genesis fan myself, I don't feel a need to overestimate its technical abilities in a manner that I'd expect in 1994 rather than 2006.

Ironically, I don't think I ever debated the matter back then -- probably because I had both systems.

16bitter

02-04-2006, 08:22 AM

As far as good Genesis music, as was the real point of the article, I think the Sonic series should be more favorably mentioned as a whole.

And Bloodlines has one truly beautiful track -- the opening to level 2 is a knockout.

ary incorparated

02-04-2006, 07:42 PM

Aha,but 16bitter the genesis sound wasnt limited compared to,it only had to be used fully by composers to compete aggainst the sound chip of the snes.And actually its what in the console our not,You cant expect ps2 out a genesis and then agree that it sound obviously better,No that isnt it,a trying to be good composior,that pulls the limit can sound real good for what its made for.Like Some snes games that try guitar but fail a bit in the sound of that but have the meat of composior then no probe,like its trying,and just like GBA snes can do a bit good guitar in a very short sample(gekido GBA) and x men Ma.Actually it isnt really relavent which chip can do better,and when the 16 bit war began the megacdrive certainly didnt fail from day one of the competition in sound,Like my friends always had the music playing load and they where very happy hearing such good muysic in that time,all they known where bleeps from GB and nes,And the megadrive never failed in music conpared to snes,look like we sead like 100 times snes does orchestrials and megadrive Pumping beats,Every piece of music has to fit the game so you cant gett oerchestrials in streets opf rage 2 and Bass booming music in Chrono trigger ehy see the point,very simple.there hasnt to be a competition nessecairly because both consoles wherent limited conpared to eachother else they wouldnt held upp aggainst.Like then and now,when i hear a DK country our thunder force it just wows me what they could do then with the music and when im listening please dont disturbe by saying i hear no drum i hear no guitar,Those things dont fit in that comosior our couldnt deserve the effort because other thing are to busy,It just sounds nice for what it is,Both snes and megadrive,I even liked the music in Monsters in my pocket so chip isnt relavent and technically their the same in what theyve done and dont prove under,Like ever heard a game on snes sounding better then TF 4,No i dont think so.And like ever heard a game on MD sounding better then DK country no i dont think so.Then where talking about genre of music.Its like a wall off bricks.Its not about how strong it can be made,Its about the structure that can make it even stronger .Youre right 16Bitter Bloodlines sounds okay,but not really my style of games i hate Bloodlines for its difficulty,But the music sounds to calm for me,I like the Remake of Castle vania in contra hard corps more then any music of castle vania hehe.I really think that sunset rider can buzz of the music is catchy but not superior our really good to be mentioned before a contra HC or Musha.

Genesis Knight

02-04-2006, 08:15 PM

I hate online sarcasm with all my heart and soul.

ary incorparated

02-05-2006, 07:32 AM

Yup.

Joe Redifer

02-05-2006, 01:22 PM

Well it's probably not going away, so be on the lookout for :)'s at the end of sarcastic sentences. That's the clue.

ary incorparated

02-11-2006, 05:27 PM

The hell with sarcasm,back to the subject.I loved to see some game really putting the sound to its max,Like a streets of rage 4 with hard metal samples and drum really clear etc Ymaha chip plus all extra sound chip working together to produce clear 10 channeld sound 6+4 from psg,One probe psg only does mastersystem sound so it wil sound a bit bleepy,maybe to back upp the psg by some chips or chips that are built in the cartridge to pull some moves.The gensis has many sound chip Yamaha6100 and PSG and Pulse wave chip (PCM) and if i can remeber even more but dunno for shure,PSG isnt much of a backupp since it only can do bleepy sounds so like 4 channels simultaineously would sound like 1 or to decent channels so probably 8 total.32X makes 8 the standard and clean because a extra chip,maybe if they put that chip biniar in a cartridge then it would be awesome.Maybe strange tought but idd like to see that genesis game still are beeing made licenced(probably impossible since the market stopped)but maybe as a Hobby or something someone whos good whit progras and modding maybe would do it once just for fun,seems difficult.

ary incorparated

02-13-2006, 05:33 PM

I know a really good one,Yeeehs Comix zone,sore their isnt much drum in that game,actuslly only two beated drum.The guitar is maxed master,Country guitar plus elecric very nice.BTW their arent manyt games with rational,good drum,are there any?.

videolamer

05-02-2006, 04:37 PM

I wanted to throw in that defining video game music as music composed and made for a video game is completely rational.

CRV

05-02-2006, 05:27 PM

I know it's a little late to notice this, but why is the article about the Z80? It should be about the YM2612 and SN76489.

videolamer

05-02-2006, 05:35 PM

It was the Genesis' audio processor I think.

CRV

05-02-2006, 05:51 PM

It was the Genesis' audio processor I think.

That may be, but those other chips are the ones you're actually hearing. So the article's a little inaccurate.

videolamer

05-03-2006, 12:38 AM

The Z80 was the Master System's processor. So an article about its legacy means a little more to a Sega fan than a more accurate article on the exact audio chip.

GeckoYamori

05-03-2006, 04:26 AM

Z80 has been used in plenty of hardware, not just Sega consoles.

Obviously

05-03-2006, 11:58 AM

Z80 sounds cooler than all those random numbers and is more recognizable by Sega fans anyway ;) .

CRV

05-03-2006, 02:07 PM

Z80 sounds cooler than all those random numbers and is more recognizable by Sega fans anyway ;) .

It doesn't matter if it sounds cooler or if it has a greater legacy. The article basically says that the Z80 is the Genny's sound chip when it's not.

segagamer

05-03-2006, 03:09 PM

My understanding is that the Z80 is the sound processor for the Genesis, but is also the CPU for the Master System.

Joe Redifer

05-03-2006, 03:10 PM

The Z80 is in charge of the chips that produce the actual sound, just like the Neo Geo.

segagamer

05-03-2006, 03:13 PM

I found the following specs at Gamefaqs.com:

C.P.U Motorola M68000 16 bit processor running at 7.67Mhz
Sound C.P.U Z80a running at 3.58 MHz
Main sound chip Yamaha YM2612 6 channel FM
Additional sound chip 4 channel PSG

Ok, you are correct, so the Z80a is just the sound CPU, not the actual sound processor/chip.

ary incorparated

05-17-2006, 07:29 PM

yess eeh thats the yamaha .neo geo used z80 to it controls the bourd.oh yeah snes can d0 11 channels when useing the secunairy chip or somethin,while mD can do 10.its not about whats in it for the sound,it can sound like crap with really good renditiond or it can sound awesome with bad renditiond,like mario tunes still catchy tunes arent the street fighetr 2,wasnt the best on md but good enough,probably one of the worser ones,lacks colors and sound,compared to.Virtua racing had two additional channels or something 2 pcm channels,makes 12?,32x makes 12 doesnt it 10 plus 2 additional.????

ary incorparated

05-17-2006, 07:37 PM

but still loved the hard core beats and bass in sor ways better then any snes game,and also the roaring guitar in TF4,sore that there wasnt a shinobi 4 on megadrive,i played shinobi X for sega saturn i traded it back didnt like the photo kindo graphics.first i loved the game i thought the dude was awesome and the most badd ass warrior in the world,the he was planning to kiss a girl or something,the mouth appeared behind that flap or piece of dust.Yuck holy f...ck bye bye image those unbrusshed ugly teeth,the weher standing form like a flipping compass.holy f..ck what a dissapointment i dont have them,and that was my hero a minute before then the cool dude.

Joe Redifer

05-17-2006, 08:57 PM

Ary I am having a very difficult time deciphering your text, but the SNES could do 8 channels of sound. No more.

ary incorparated

05-18-2006, 07:56 AM

11 listen to jurassic park,read wikipedia about it.I find it harch to believe so to,snes sounds nice with the orchestral but bit empty like drum and bas not sounding in the right place atthe same time,yess i can hear the diffrence between Tf4 and Dk3,TF4 clears it out guitar plus the omages are awesome Tf4 rocks.but still snes can do 11 as i was told snes has a sony spc700 secundaire chip or somthing dont know for shure what the name is,that one does 3.then youve got the DPC sound chip that does 8 channels.make eleven.neo geo can do 15 as i recoll wow thats ways obeve those to thats like a MD 1,5X.n64 sounds awesome dunno how many channels that thing has Godd damn F zero drives me nutsss,maybe that is nintendo but hell i love some nintendo games,okay for me always sega above anything in games.I found it strange too Joe i tought that Btman and Rbin sounded better the snes inc Tf4,i dont know where the 11 kome from never played the so called Jpark for snes.

ary incorparated

05-19-2006, 08:24 PM

please reply,what up with the 11 channels appearing out of somthing but where.

Joe Redifer

05-19-2006, 08:30 PM

Wikipedia has been known to be wrong. The information can be submitted by ANY random moron like you or me. Jurassic Park simply has an ecoded Dolby Pro Logic track that barely works. You only need two channels for Dolby Pro Logic. Well actually four if you want to do it in real time which I don't think the game does. I remember renting it and running it on my Dolby Pro Logic system and it didn't sound like anything special. There is nothing that says Dolby Pro Logic can't work on the Genesis, Sega CD, TurboGrafx-16 CD-ROM, etc.

Drixxel

05-20-2006, 01:54 AM

Damn, Joe, you know a lot about sound!

ary incorparated

05-20-2006, 07:44 AM

Yess joe thats the ultra fine exemple of it so we could go on with the subject,Man youre good thanx.Virtua racing ads two additional channels why?.makes 12 right.

ary incorparated

05-20-2006, 10:49 AM

Which game on genesis actually use the full 10 channel,I personally think batman and robin,Thunder force4 comix zone.i bet there are more and i cant figure it out why most games use 6 everytime a hear lots more the just six while listening yes street fighter and some other that i believe but sor 3 or other somethimes hard.

GeckoYamori

05-20-2006, 11:45 AM

Batman & Robin doesn't use any of the PSG channels

ary incorparated

05-20-2006, 01:42 PM

is that so i hear defnitly more then 6,which game does then,i tought batman and robin was a hell of a sound shower.

Joe Redifer

05-20-2006, 01:43 PM

Does Virtua Racing add more channels? I have heard that elsewhere but I can't tell just by listening to the game.

There are LOTS of games that don't use the PSG channels, and they usually sound pretty lacking. I don't remember the sound from Batman and Robin, though. But games like Vectorman I don't think use the PSG from what I can remember and I didn't like the way that sounded. A lot of Western developers went PSG-less.

CRV

05-20-2006, 04:18 PM

Does Virtua Racing add more channels? I have heard that elsewhere but I can't tell just by listening to the game.

Looking at the rip from Project 2612, the original VR only uses the 2612.

If you really want to get into it, download some packs from over there. With the current in_vgm Winamp plugin, you can turn on and off individual channels. The file info will also tell you which chips are being used.

I don't know what this talk about adding channels is. The 2612 has seven channels (6 tones plus DAC) and the PSG has four channels (3 tones plus noise). The only way a game can use more than that is if it's a Sega CD game (which has its own FM sound chip) or if it's a 32X game (which adds a four-channel PWM sampler). Maybe the game could have an additional sound chip built-in, but that might be costly.

ary incorparated

05-20-2006, 04:40 PM

hmm so already tought so why the two additional channels where notheless in Vracing,id didnt here em two but ill try that CRV,hmm im curious if genesis has 10 channels which games use it then to surely encounter the snes its 8 channels else it would be 6 or 7vs 8 and then yes snes wins i that part.but il check it.

ary incorparated

05-20-2006, 04:43 PM

but i defnitly think i havnt heard a poor 6 or 7 channels in the omakes in TF4,many title i think i hear more then 6,and yess batman and robin i hear defnitly more then 6.Maybe the drum and cressemble in some games that is missing are for the overal 4 extra one.good we gett into this aggain to really get the right answers above the table.and know if the genesis actually uses its ten,to beat snes to its core.

ary incorparated

05-20-2006, 04:58 PM

But megadrive games sertainly dont sound that lacking my neckhares where standing straight up wehn ive heard contra hard corps its first level song same for tf 4,i tought id never hear that come out of a genesis.Dynamite headys heavy metal track track nr3,musha aleste didnt use 10 i know that for shure but sounded hells,comix zone sounds great i dont think 6 to nice guitar work.how about us european are we good for any aditional channels the psg.if dont uses the psg im wandering why its there for then.TG 16 sounds awefull with its 6 channels and genesis doesnt sound a bit like that semi 8 bit sound noo.like 6 is 2 above the mastersystem that a chore.that is just crap to say hard games from 95 would sound shit then and dated in years,snes certainly didnt sound dated then neither did comix zone,vectorman sounds ikay nothing special.

CRV

05-20-2006, 05:27 PM

and yess batman and robin i hear defnitly more then 6.

No, it only uses six (no DAC, either).

Joe Redifer

05-20-2006, 05:46 PM

ary incorparated

05-20-2006, 06:01 PM

Pulse wave modulation PCM pulscoderingmodulation.Wave is more for bassy wave you some thimes hear in streets of rage an batman and robin very light PWM is also used in Mobile phone for bleeps etc,yes wind souds also are made by that thing.Sorry my pc speakers dont work.Hmm sega cd dont start up about that it could do anything as clear as it wants to duhh its cd,which you can exspect final fight sounds over any cartridge game maybe except f zero and the n64 likes.cd doesnt count that isnt a fear competition and fear to mention while talking about prestige of a genesis self and not the add on.Yess fm could do ways more lie 6FM cahnnels hell it could deliver rampage guitar like in Thunder force 4 ehy that game uses over 3 cahnnels of Fm roaring guitar,+bass plus Drum snare an bass+2nd guitar synth dunno how many channels been taking for that +melodic sounds makes?me wandering how much actually been used,i think TF 4 doesnt use 6 simulatineously guitar synth and the psg for backround stuff,if that would be so and it would be so in a game i think the guitar would sound horrifien good and damn badd assed,i think then a genesis would blew you a meter away from the console.hmm dunno if the psg can handle bass and snare drum together and bass.the it would be possible a nice mettal game wed aleready have Tf for the score one minor is that the boss songs are to short still actually it isnt a minor.actualoly nothing PCM could do waces to,only PWM cause it was specified for that kindo thing in mobile phones so thed call it the PWM somethimes and PCM soethimes actually dunno for shure theres is actually no difrrence as i have readed.A new genesis game that proves the upper limits of the system would be overawesome mega cd games are still beeing produced,if id know how to and know how to draw it which im not a star in id probably tryd it,only thing i can has nothing to do with it guitar playing.

GeckoYamori

05-20-2006, 06:19 PM

The 2612 has seven channels (6 tones plus DAC)

We've already said it's 6 channels max. One channel has to be converted for DAC playback.

ary incorparated

05-20-2006, 06:27 PM

yessir thats been sead and i know,Valis sounded good but i fell a sleep while playing it for its music score its too damn slow and repetetive.sorry i cant hear some music else i would have tried the way Crv sead.now i just can be curious and do research which is very scars to find somthing about this and in whatr game.we are dragging about the 10 channels Gecko started about a while ago but why where and are whe since not even nowing in what game research has to be done for beating sness its ars with the 8.stop about the 8 pcm channels in the mega cd it is cd no comparisment what so ever logically that thing eats a snes.lets try to find out which game uses 10.CRV and joe both right Batmna and robin could have done 6 still doubting but its getting lesser.

CRV

05-20-2006, 07:01 PM

I'm pretty sure the Sega CD has 8 channel PCM, not FM. This is, of course, in addition to the CD audio. FM can do more than tone. PSGs are commonly referred to as tone generators. What does PWM stand for and what makes it different from PCM?

1) Yes, you're right, it's PCM, not FM.

2) in_vgm refers to the channels as "tone channels." I was only looking at that...

3) PWM stands for pulse-width modulation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse-width_modulation#Audio_effects_and_amplification

CRV

05-20-2006, 07:14 PM

lets try to find out which game uses 10.

I don't know if any use all ten. Devilish and Gauntlet IV seem to use all but the PSG noise channel. Shinobi III and Aa Harimanada seem to use all but PSG tone 3.

Joe Redifer

05-20-2006, 07:42 PM

Just imagine all of the noise a Sega CD 32X game could make. It would have literally 24 sound channels (two of them CD audio) to play with. Each of them should make a different noise simulataneously just to do it.

CRV

05-20-2006, 07:53 PM

GeckoYamori

05-20-2006, 09:11 PM

Not much of a point in utilising everything for music if you could just play redbook audio. Instead more effort could be put into making more advanced sound effects, like they did in Sonic CD.

ary incorparated

05-20-2006, 09:23 PM

hehehe,but thats a diffrent story,thats just adding and adding channels etc.saturn does 32 then i can start that neo geo Aes does 15.Hmm cd32x didnt like that combination the few games i saw where standart fmf one.Shinobi 3 does it thats what i believe yess that one has more tone then FM sound aldo both,only some songs are beeing figurly screwed by the high japanse tones.noo the game is looks and sounds awesome only if it had the dept of the first one it would have been the best,the graphics are awsome some of the best animations seen on the system.sega had the time to make a fourth one sore that they didnt.Guanlet lV yess and i thibk it only uses the psg waht a simple looking game,still a fun one.i think TF 4 defnitly sets the score and i think i cant find anything about just genesis.BTW what game that has a clayyed togheter of 24 channels sounds actually good then,is i recall there werent many cd32x games and neihter many good,corpse kiler fahrenheit night trap etc.what if the composure is crap as hell and clayyed together to a 24 channeld game yess crank it upp and youre neighbours sure wont have it easy trying to get back on rehab.but still thats a strange one joe 32x only ads 2 and genesis 10 makes 12 plus 1 of mdcd is 13,how come 24?.if you do 8+10+2 is 20.actually mdcd can do over 32 channels play a normal metallica cd in it and youlle hear all the possible channels same for saturn software put it in there and you here every channel.heheh but i think thats a diffrent story,the software for mdcd uses 8 channels or somthing whil could have done 20 or more with a ease.

Joe Redifer

05-20-2006, 09:39 PM

There were advanced sound effects in Sonic CD?

GeckoYamori

05-21-2006, 06:41 AM

Most FM-based effects sounded more advanced than their vanilla Sonic counterparts, since they used more than 1 channel. Take the spindash for example, which has that low rumble added.

ary incorparated

05-21-2006, 07:34 AM

on cd they could do anything you want to ecspect ehy,listen to final fight cd,sounds great like it should.sonic cd sounds great,which one is actually better the pal version or the japanese one in music,i have the pall one or is the usa one btter im bogling my mind over that,the one has a rock sound score(more for me)teh other a techno?.please could someone tell me what upp with the doctor alban music an Two unlimited music in combat cars the songs are almost identical to those,still great game.

ary incorparated

05-21-2006, 08:23 AM

Oh yeah streets of rage 3 had great music for that score,in one song that sounds a bit crap youlle actually hear a guitar grinding into the song,one of the best loops ever hear on a genesis,yess the most an clearest guitar i ever heard in a second or two on the genesis.Sick.streets of rage tries but does it to hard,like pushing everything bit to oversampled bass somethimes,but sounds actually good overal i can name more the 5 tracks i really like in that game and are among the best for competition,one chore the game has clayyed slowdown in the music when tones and cahnnels are beeing add the music getts slower therefor i prefer bare knuckle 3 whos has everything right almost,i hate the subway level and some song thats my only complaint.

ary incorparated

05-21-2006, 08:25 AM

i dont get all the wining is about about that game at least if youre not into the musci,it doesnt sound dated.yess there are some badd ones but actually more good ones and i dont think its bothereing those some uglyer ones.

j_factor

05-21-2006, 03:47 PM

There were advanced sound effects in Sonic CD?

When you get an extra life, you hear his actual voice go "yes!" Now that's what I call advanced!

ary incorparated

05-21-2006, 04:12 PM

aah "Yes" hmm what do you ecspest its CD possibol ehy.virtua fighter has voices all the time.Yu Yu hakusho makyo tishen battle has voices so that makes it uniqeu but not that good overall.

CRV

05-21-2006, 06:18 PM

A lot of Western developers went PSG-less.

Dune: The Battle for Arrakis actually uses some PSG. Frankly, it's the most "Japanese-sounding" (by that, I mean, it sounds the most like something that might have come from a Japanese composer at the time) Western music I've heard come from the Gen/MD (though that might not be saying much).

ary incorparated

05-21-2006, 06:36 PM

hmm devil crush sounds awesome,but dune is a bit lame game.

GeckoYamori

05-21-2006, 06:47 PM

Frankly

I think you just subconciously made a pun.

CRV

05-21-2006, 06:49 PM

I think you just subconciously made a pun.

O RLY?

Joe Redifer

05-21-2006, 09:38 PM

Here is a picture from the sound test of Knuckles' Chaotix for the Sega® 32X™. As you can see, it uses 10 channels just for the music alone!

http://pixelcraze.film-tech.net/crap/knuckles.jpg
PSG #3 is dedicated to the hi-hat. PSG #4 doesn't seem to be used. It is possible that channel is used for the jump/ring noise during the game like it is with every other Sonic game.

Also there are more than 64 colors onscreen! Oh wait. Not on this pic. For some reason the emulator I used (Fusion) failed to draw the screen behind everything here. I hate emulators.

CRV

05-21-2006, 11:04 PM

Here is a picture from the sound test of Knuckles' Chaotix for the Sega® 32X™. As you can see, it uses 10 channels just for the music alone!

I count 13. 6 FM, 3 PSG, and 4 PWM (used for the drums, I believe - note the 1-4 next to "PWM")

Also there are more than 64 colors onscreen!

It better. It's a 32X game.

Joe Redifer

05-21-2006, 11:09 PM

Only 3 of the PWMs are lit up. And I swear there are times when more than 4 of them are lit up.

CRV

05-21-2006, 11:36 PM

Only 3 of the PWMs are lit up. And I swear there are times when more than 4 of them are lit up.

I swear there's 10 being used!

Joe Redifer

05-22-2006, 12:04 AM

I count 13.

ary incorparated

05-22-2006, 09:48 AM

I know that knuckles ghatoix sounds absolutly superb okay not my style of music but Joe redifier has made a copy of dore into summer which sounds awesome what no orchestrals hell yeah and beats the snes for doing thgose with the overhedded clear sounds.Just a standard megadrive almost cant produce High head and cressemble the drum parts its rare to be heard on a genesis.maybe it doesnt use much of those dedicated PCM,s and PWM.aha vere heard the special effects in virtua racing soem effects like a bit drum are there to be heard,the game doesnt says that it uses 12 or 10 noooh it might as well use 6 but two channels are added to fill the sound.ooh 32X can do over a snes pallete in screen like more then 32000 colours animated in screen not the foto alike images like snes.32x has better technical specification then a GBa which was brought to uss in 2001.

ary incorparated

05-23-2006, 06:09 PM

Anybody at this tread.Megadrive games still beeing home made and made Beggar prince doom,cool i cant wait to see the release of SOR for the system hehehe.

ary incorparated

05-24-2006, 08:30 PM

hehe devil crush sure has nice and calm music cant get allisia dragoon out of my head to.Metalhead does 8 channels as you can see the option.

ary incorparated

05-25-2006, 07:38 AM

Hmm but how can i see the channels in winamp ive got the song \s in mp3 file,ripped from emulator how.

Joe Redifer

05-25-2006, 03:56 PM

You can't.

CRV

05-25-2006, 04:05 PM

Hmm but how can i see the channels in winamp ive got the song \s in mp3 file,ripped from emulator how.

You have to have a VGM file (not MP3) and the in_vgm plugin installed.

ary incorparated

05-25-2006, 05:04 PM

Oke thanx and the plugin is downloadable on the nett? easely.

CRV

05-25-2006, 05:47 PM

Oke thanx and the plugin is downloadable on the nett? easely.

Yes

Joe Redifer

05-25-2006, 08:15 PM

Just search Google. You should copy and past CRV's text into the search engine to make sure you get what you need.

ary incorparated

05-26-2006, 07:32 PM

oke thanx for the help,i have one and i can see the plugins load a wave pallet ps yamaha 6167 or 2712 ,hmm i can adjust the tone channels,but mosly theit nog used,i cant Aadjust the fm channels to see how they work individual strange,yet to figure out thanx.

ary incorparated

05-27-2006, 09:28 AM

the 2612 is good for the fm chanels right how many are their,i can enable the 2612 and then youre stocked with the tones,and that are like 3,how much is the total like in streets of rage 3when you enable the 2612 guitar and drum+bass dont work then only the tone ones,that makes that game how many channels?.i cant adjust every chanel with this one,CRV do you have a recomended version of VGM player?

ary incorparated

05-27-2006, 10:12 AM

Okay streets of rage 3 uses like 9 or 10 channels it uses the psg and 2612(6channeld one) and shinobi 3 idd uses like 10 or 9 channels also the psg,Battle mania 2 uses 1 or psg channels makes it 7 or 8 even battle mania does some pwm Cymbol and hi hat etc.i knew that streets of rage 3 used many channels it sounded so full,Bare knuckle 3 is better and worth a 8.and knuckles ghaotix idd does like 12 or 14 minimum channels but has a bit crappy music if you ask me.

ary incorparated

05-31-2006, 06:28 PM

I LIke the music form eternal champions Chalangers of the drak side very very much,that amrican song with the oversmapled guitar and more guitar guitar guitar Hell yess candy.if the game was crap and had this music idd buy it maybe.

ary incorparated

06-03-2006, 09:06 PM

I heard rock and racing on snes yesterday sounds ways better the the megadrive one,whil i tought it probably could have been else,Megadrive is the one with the 6 FM channels.But snes can do some nice guitar that makes me doubting if its better then MD,MD uses it more often and comix zone etc sound sharper and more focused on that.BTW who ever sead that Xmen mutant apocipse was a answer to TF4 on megadrive makes me laugh,hell no Mutant apocalipse has the same kind of tones as megaman with a lick of light guitar hell no TF4,megaman has guitar since when it has tones no guitar synth on snes someone told that before either.

ary incorparated

06-13-2006, 12:47 PM

the snes on is better then te genesis one?

ary incorparated

06-14-2006, 03:06 PM

LOL,but whe know genesis couold have done better.i never heard the genesis its guitar samples in maximum im curious is there a Metal genesis game that also includes guitarry solos etc,Rolling thunder 3i know but a other one? and better the TF4,i only know even that was and is possible,if you remind the sounds.I know genesis could do almost same as a real guitar with sampling tricks.

ary incorparated

06-20-2006, 09:53 AM

Who knows the ooze,who likes it.?

ary incorparated

07-09-2006, 06:48 PM

its crap i know,but has a fun intro music.mega cd music is stored as PCM channels on the mega cd or something on the cd then and is running trough the genesis sound processor or something,Id like to hear a megadrive cartridge come as close as a cd game like final fight cd or eternal champiosn in guitar departhment then they pushed it all and then i totally flip my mind and scratch my head how they did that but i still think that a genesis can do pseudo or kind of like real guitar with wah hah or what ever it can do it,only sore that there was no SOR 4 or something to let us hear that i have to do it with TF and that one still rocks but i liked it more if the tracks where longer then 30 sec,still greatest and fastest metall on a 16 bit console inc neo geo.

ary incorparated

07-09-2006, 06:53 PM

BTW bloodlines doesnt have that great music only in soem stages and castle vania dracula x for instance blows that game away,its that simple while genesis wins on other things.snes music sounds somethimes like inderwater recorded or somthing same for that guitar then a bit bulky and bass ish.not that great its only available and not pitched always only game with guitar on snes thats great is R&R racing,and maybe max carnage.end.

ary incorparated

08-29-2006, 08:37 AM

BT anyhoe,Genesis has 10 channels i always tought 9,3Xpsg 1 X Das And ym2612,CRV could be right that the Dac playback is seperate from the YM6875,DAC is for Drum line Exttra bass and stuf,Ym2612 for the main tones and psg for the background well im going to tell you this at least many many titles on genesis use their psg,you can hear trough emulation
Ill name a few.

Comix zone:Dac+Ym2612+Psg so its range could be up to 9
Thunder force:Ym2612+psg good for 8
Many technosoft games Herzog zwei TF 3al use their psg
Golden Axe 2 uses its Psg so also good for 7 or 8 channels.
Light crusader Uses all
Sonic 3D same also uses all channels
Streets of rage 2 uses all 9 or 10 channels
streets of rage 3 uses all 9 or 10 channels
Road rash 3 includes the psg so good for 7 or 8 channels.
Gunstar heros used theyre psg
Alien soldier.Should i keep going.

Not many games went psg less,games like Contra hardcorps batman and robin Musha,but that no harm.

BTW does genesis uses al 10 or less i tought it used all 10 cause when the PCM starts to rumble youlle here music tones fall away and hear glitches,the PCM is actually a Fm channel .

If you want to hear it for your self emulate those games and turn off several channels its that easy.so the genesis just has 10 channels mostly in use.BTW 32X ads 2 channels of pwm and i think joes right Knuckles ghaotix uses ore then 10 its uses at least 12.Neo geo could do 14 if im correct.