Console longevity (functioning not market)

[Tanegashima]

So, honestly how long do we have before our Sega genesi (plural of Genesis), Sega CDs, Saturns, Dreamcasts all start to wear out (Dreamcast I guess has already been answered, they are starting to go now...)

I mean, I'm serious, how long before finding a working one becomes as hard as say finding a working Colecovision? Can I honestly hope, with TLC my Saturn and Sega CD and Genesis (and Neo Geo stuff) will last my lifetime? Or 10 more years down the road I'm screwed?

I have two Atari 2600's, one from 1979 and the other from 1987 and both work perfectly. Can the same be said for the above? Especially when considering we're dealing with laser motors and far more moving parts? Or should I just start buying multiple backup consoles in anticipation of a "brick wall" when everything just starts going out? I don't want to lose out on playing this stuff ever, and I'm just worried that soon all the Genesi/Sega CDs etc. will just stop functioning en masse one day and they'll be impossible to replace.

So what say you?

[David J.]

The only Sega consoles I'm really worried about are:

NTSC Master Systems - since the SMS didn't fare well in the US, so there's only a small number about

Sega CD 1 - Gee, I wonder...

Sega CD 2 - Well, it's reliable, but lasers fuck up.

Sega Dreamcast - I am lucky, but I can understand. Plus a lot of people modded consoles, that I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole. so finding a stock looking DC might be a pisser.

I'm not worried about Saturn, since I bet most people who had them where stuck playing shit, and only touched the consoles for a small period of time.

[Tanegashima]

So what about my Neo Geo/neo CD/3DO (this was absolutely brand new when I got it, in the box and everything...so it has a while to go I'm sure) and turboduo? I don't worry about the playstation because it's going to be available for another 15 years.

[17daysolderthannes]

I think its more a matter of how they are cared for than age. Sure, save batteries in games will eventually die no matter what you do, but the systems themselves should last for quite some time. The reason so many people seem to have dying systems is:

A) no one ever joins a forum to tell everyone how reliable their system has been

and

B) most people DONT take care of their systems for shit. They store them in open boxes in a garage that's open most of the time, letting in moisture and bugs nests among other things. They keep them on the floor where they get kicked around or bring them to friends houses and just throw them in the trunk where they get knocked around to all hell. I still have my original NES and all of my original NES games and all of them will boot up first try and they have never been cleaned or altered in any way. On the other hand, even cleaned used NES games will sometimes take a couple tries in my brand new clone systems with normal tight fitting cartridge slots. Another thing to consider is that many problems are easy fixes like a quick laser clean or a pin clean for cartridge games. Anyone that claims that their system just "died" one day is neglecting to mention how many years of spilled drinks, physical assault, and constantly being left on all day has brought it to that point. The way most systems are built, a properly maintained system should be able to work for a very long time, until the laser gears are stripped from moving back and forth and the diode is shot (which is similar to an LED, and if you know anything about LEDs, thats a LONG time).

[gamevet]

The only Sega consoles I'm really worried about are:

NTSC Master Systems - since the SMS didn't fare well in the US, so there's only a small number about

The SMS sold pretty well in Brazil. There's a good chance that those are still around.



I'm not worried about Saturn, since I bet most people who had them where stuck playing shit, and only touched the consoles for a small period of time.

I've played my Saturn far more than my Playstation. The Saturn is best known for its imports, but North America received plenty of good games along the way.

[David J.]

Brazil doesn't use NTSC, and it's a pisser to find Tectoy stuff out of Brazil, espically stuff that is in good shape.

I think the US Saturn had a lot of good games, but really, I've run into a lot of used Saturns, and I've yet to see one that isn't on it's last legs like a PS1.

[Tanegashima]

Brazil doesn't use NTSC, and it's a pisser to find Tectoy stuff out of Brazil, espically stuff that is in good shape.

I think the US Saturn had a lot of good games, but really, I've run into a lot of used Saturns, and I've yet to see one that isn't on it's last legs like a PS1.

I thought all the master systems were the same? Worldwide. Just use an NTSC cord, same specs...

[otaku]

The problem with Dc's is repairing them thanks to the GDROM setup. My genesis was refurbed at some point in its life so thats not to good. I had a brand new DC that hadn't been used until this year (used for a few months then sold)

Whats disgusting is the 360 will be the shortest in longevity imo. Mine has RROD once about a year ago and now the disc drive needs replacing (M$ wants 100 bucks to fix it!) argh!

[David J.]

There's no region protection, but plug a PAL SMS in a US TV... it'll be black and white and in 50hz.

I'm sure you can do some soldering or something to make it a "US" one.

[gamevet]

I think the US Saturn had a lot of good games, but really, I've run into a lot of used Saturns, and I've yet to see one that isn't on it's last legs like a PS1.

Are you saying you've found a lot of Saturns in good shape, or a lot that are in bad shape?

[David J.]

I've found a LOT of Saturns in good shape. Only problem usually is the battery, but it can usually get fixed with a new one.

I don't think most of the people who bought them really played them.

[Iron Lizard]

There's no region protection, but plug a PAL SMS in a US TV... it'll be black and white and in 50hz.

I'm sure you can do some soldering or something to make it a "US" one.

I actually have one that I found at a thrift store. I didnt think to look at the sticker on the bottom. It did not work at all. It was black and white and the screen was rolling.

[gamevet]

I've found a LOT of Saturns in good shape. Only problem usually is the battery, but it can usually get fixed with a new one.

Yeah, the battery only lasts about a year.



I don't think most of the people who bought them really played them.

I'd say you are probably right about the Saturns with the round console buttons, but the consoles with the oval buttons probably had plenty of playtime.

I have one of the early lauch Saturns (May 1995) and it still plays like the day I'd bought it. It's a pretty well built machine.

[Rusty Venture]

I have various game systems cryogenically frozen. When a system goes bad, another one is thawed and played.

[playgen]

There's no region protection, but plug a PAL SMS in a US TV... it'll be black and white and in 50hz.

I'm sure you can do some soldering or something to make it a "US" one.

A PAL SMS will output in PAL 60HZ when modified (unlike megadrives which you can switch between PAL50 and NTSC) so will still have problems on US NTSC TVs.

Brazil uses a diferent subset of PAL, PAL-M if I remember rightly, which can be incompatible with a lot of TVs in other PAL territories.

Theres always loads of US SMS consoles on ebay, I wouldn't worry about not being able to find them, unless a million Americans all suddenly decide they were wrong to play Mario and should be playing Alex Kidd. And they are reliable consoles anyway.

[mick_aka]

The Dreamcast worries me the most, it's a regularly used machine for me and I have genuinel lost count of how many have died on my now.

My MegaCD experience appears to be the opposite of most peoples, I find my MegaCD1 to be very robust and reliable, where as I have a box full of dead MCD2's :(

I don't think cart based consoles are anything to worry about for a very long time, my original Atari VCS is still functioning perfectly after almost 30 years.

[Zebbe]

I don't think cart based consoles are anything to worry about for a very long time, my original Atari VCS is still functioning perfectly after almost 30 years.

The toaster NES usually dies because the cartridge connector wears out.

[17daysolderthannes]

The toaster NES usually dies because the cartridge connector wears out.

but that's a very easy $10 fix.






Hopefully technology will advance (and patents will expire) to the point that all systems will be available in clone form with 100% (or near 100%) compatibility. How cool would it be to have a Genesis/32X/Sega CD/Saturn/Dreamcast all in one? While the technology may not be there now (or the patents expired), once someone takes the initiative to make that beast of a system on a chip, I think it could totally be done.

[Rusty Venture]

The toaster NES usually dies because the cartridge connector wears out.

The system itself works, just that connector wears out (Gets bent!).

I do worry about newer systems, but we'll just have to cross our fingers and see.

[Kogen]

No, the issue with NES is the entire system falling apart. Everything starts to rust and break.

However this stuff can be fixed/replaced. The real reason people have broken NES consoles is the 'lock-out' chip. Just disconnect it and it should work. Not because the connector thing is dirty (it could rust, though).

Stuff I had age poorly were:

NES - like I described.
Genesis model 2 - the power thing gets loose and I have no idea how to fix it.
SEGA CD model 2 - the spinny thing is not as firm as it should be, so sometimes it gets noisy, tapping it fixes it though. No big deal.
Playstation - made from cheap plastic, the door is weird now.
Playstation 2 - A/V thing breaks a lot on its own.
Dreamcast - the battery died apparently, makes weird noises sometimes, the VMUs do not work right/battery died, general bugs do to even slight scratches.
N64 - controller's joystick wears out.

Consoles I have/had that work perfectly:

Atari 2600
Genesis model 1
XBox
XBox 360 (I know these have issues, mine does not)

[Rusty Venture]

No, the issue with NES is the entire system falling apart. Everything starts to rust and break.

Do you fight alien zombie robots with your system? I have never seen an NES that was "rusting, breaking, and falling apart". I did see one once where the tray contraption wouldn't stay down, but nothing 5 minutes of work couldn't correct.

Oddly enough I used to have a co-worker (when I did the game store thing) who could never get an NES to work. Clean, clean, clean and it would still flash on him, I go over and spend 2 minutes with it and its up and running. He looked at me like "how did you get it to work?" I just told him I have "the touch".

[Ace]

Here's from my experience:

Atari 2600: I own 3 of these, and had to do some major repairs on one(broken switches). Since then, it works wonders, except its RF output is fuzzy.

NES: I bought several of these things and my father owned one since launch. The launch model never failed(still has its stock connector!), but I got 3 that were broken, 2 had loose pinsets(I still have one of those, I gave the other one in exchange for my Super NES, with tightened pinsets, obviously), the other one had an electrical problem, as it wouldn't power on and it smoked from the power/AV/RF assembly. I also have a Top-loader version which never gave me any problems.

Super NES: I have(and had) several broken ones. The 2 broken ones I have either display no image/have no sound or has sound, displays garbled graphics and crashes. I happened to also buy a defective Super NES Mini, which buzzed through the speakers(I exchanged this for an FC Twin in frustration). I also heard that the internal fuse can blow in these. My functioning Super NESes are perfectly fine(I'm talking about the normal, the Super Famicom and Super NES Mini). I did manage, once, to run across a broken Super NES power supply, so be weary of that, too.

Master System: I have one that doesn't power on at all and don't know why. My other 2 work fine, but one of them has a controller port that's failing(Up sometimes doesn't register).

Genesis: Unless I didn't kill it with an improperly made mod or didn't buy it broken, it always worked, except for the Reset button that seems to fail a lot(out of my working ones, half have broken/finicky Reset buttons).

Sega CD: Works like it just came out of the box(Model 2).

32X: The ribbon cables needed to be reseated, but it never failed, HOWEVER, what really bugs me is a sizzling sound that comes from it every time the Genesis is turned on.

Saturn: I own the round-button version. It works perfectly.

PlayStation: The laser seems highly problematic. The big one I own has an issue with skipping music, my PSone model doesn't recognize any games.

Nintendo 64: It seems like the pinsets can get really loose on it, because I have a hard time getting certain games to work(and yes, they're clean). Not to mention the controllers' analog sticks suck and don't stay properly centered over time.

GameCube: Even after dropping it, it still keeps on truckin'.

PlayStation 2: Probably one of the most unreliable systems I own. I have 3 of these, 2 fats, one slim. The slim has compatibility problems(it's one with integrated processor/GPU) and won't read any PAL games(it's chipped), one of my fats has a broken ribbon cable on the inside, and my other one improperly identifies PlayStation 2 CDs(blue-bottomed discs) as PlayStation games, and now no longer outputs video and audio(I tried to solder a separate output, and even that doesn't work).

Dreamcast: The battery's a pain in the %!@, but it works just fine otherwise.

Wii: Can't fully assess that for a while, but it's all good so far.

And for the newer clone consoles:

FC Twin: Early models seem to break after 2 weeks of use. Those don't have Yobo's logo anywhere. Mine does, and even after taking a solder iron to it twice, once for S-Video, the other for the addition of a Super NES lockout chip, it still works.

Yobo FC Game Console: This one doesn't look like it'll last long, as it seems EXTREMELY fragile. I mean, it practically bends in half when you put in a cartridge, plus, I heard some complaints about it no longer powering on.

RetroDuo: This one looks like it's going to last a while, haven't heard much in terms of reliability issues.

[Mamba Tabac]

PlayStation 2: Probably one of the most unreliable systems I own.

After I read that - I just knew you didn't have a 360 :D

[j_factor]

PlayStation: The laser seems highly problematic. The big one I own has an issue with skipping music, my PSone model doesn't recognize any games.

Just turn it upside-down.

[Mr. Ksoft]

I have never really had any problems with my consoles dying. Every single one I have is the first one I've bought. Even used stuff from various questionable sources (aka previous owners that aren't kind to their systems) is working great. I've had a couple of small annoyances, but no outright death. Heck, I'll run down the specifics:

NES: Got this a few months ago from somebody who didn't seem to treat it well. For instance, I have no screws to hold the top on and a game I got with it has a gaping hole in the front. It also is, to my knowledge, a launch or near-launch model. But anyway, it works perfectly. I did replace the connector but really that's nothing. Not an issue to be found.

SNES: Bought on Ebay, never had a problem except when the games were dirty.

N64: First home console I owned, bought at retail in 2000ish. Frickin' invincible. My 8 year old self didn't treat it great, nor did my younger brother when he started using it. Plays things like when I first got it.

Gamecube: Bought at retail. Also invincible. Reacts well to shock... I've played it in the car on long road trips for 5 years in a row. It's been dropped, still no problems except that one of my controllers has a broken analog stick, but I bet I can fix it if I open the thing up and mess around.

Wii: Again, bought from retail. I've heard of people having trouble with dual-layer discs like Brawl but no problems here. Gets a bit warm, but I guess that's normal-- though I dunno if that might affect it in the long run.

Genesis 2: Got it from a friend for free. It was pretty stickered up, dirty, and a tad scratched when I first got it, and the bottom says it's a refurb. Runs games great, although the first controller port seems to have a problem with my 3-button pad (registering C as start among other things) unless it's only inserted halfway.

TurboGrafx-16: Well, I just got this last week, and it definitely looked like it had seen better days. It was really dirty and had water spots on it. However, even in that state, everything worked. And now it's cleaned up and still works fantastically. My TurboBooster has a little trouble holding the composite cables in, however. Sometimes I have to nudge them a little to get consistent video output.

Also, I'm gonna throw handhelds into the mix. All of mine are still alive, however some of them have had some problems that are sorta bad.

Game Boy Pocket: First handheld I owned, bought at retail. Scratched badly, dropped tons of times, the start button is mostly gone, the battery cover is broken, and the labels on the back are ripped off. Works great! Also I'd like to note that the games probably won't die soon either... when I was younger I ran a Tetris Plus cart through the wash at least 20 times and it still works. It even held the save data!

Game Boy Color: Bought at retail. It's in decent condition and plays games, but the poor thing is having sound output problems. It's making sound, but even at the highest volume you have to hold your ear to the speaker. Headphones work fine, though.

Game Boy Advance: Bought at launch. Works perfectly.

DS (fat): Bought at launch. It accidentally got thrown at a wall once, but still works perfectly. My brother's, however, did die about a month ago-- it would randomly turn off while playing anything except GBA games, although it would happen more often on some games. So he had to replace it with a DS lite.

GP2X: Bought new online. The d-stick shifts out of position and then slides around uselessly occasionally, and is a pain in the ass to click back into position. Other than that, works.

TurboExpress: Just got last week along with the TG16. Works fine, except that it also has the sound problem my Game Boy Color has. Headphones work fine as well, though. The turbo switches are a little stiff.


I always have a lot of luck with console reliability in general. As everyone's stuff has failed around me, I have working systems... even the stuff I treated badly as a young kid. I don't get it.

[AD2101]

My DC has already given up the ghost, good thing they aren't terribly expensive or hard to find yet. Ill probably just end up buying another one from Japan and one of those slick black cases without the Sega Sports logo on it so it can match all my other consoles. The only other console I have that I'm actually worried about going out is my model 1 Sega CD. Works fine now but you never know when it's time is up. I got a model 2 in storage that I would use but space on my entertainment center is scarce and it looks so much lamer.

[MN12BIRD]

I have 2 original woody 2600s one a heavy sixer and they both work. These systems don't have any moving parts to wear out like the DC or SCD I would say a Genesis stored will last longer than I will!

[Ace]

After I read that - I just knew you didn't have a 360 :D

No, I don't, and I never will, as I really don't trust its reliability. At least with a PlayStation 2, I can play my games off a hard drive if the laser craps out on me:p. With the Xbox 360, it's an entirely different story.

[17daysolderthannes]

Oddly enough I used to have a co-worker (when I did the game store thing) who could never get an NES to work. Clean, clean, clean and it would still flash on him, I go over and spend 2 minutes with it and its up and running. He looked at me like "how did you get it to work?" I just told him I have "the touch".

Amen, that's the big problem, even if you tell people how to clean it, 99% of the time they still don't do it totally right.

For the record, every system I have ever owned still works flawlessly, and that includes: 2 Game Gears, original Game Boy (used), PS2 FAT(sometimes you have to reinsert the controller [like every so many months], but with so much use that's to be expected), NES, SNES, Genesis model 2 (used), Sega CD model 2 (used), 32X (used), Dreamcast (used), FC Twin, Yobo FC, and a Wii. People just don't know what it means to take care of a system. My car is the same way, mine is 6 years old and looks practically new and drives like it too, other people with a 6 year old car nearly identical to mine have paint peeling and it runs like shit. Its all in how you maintain it.

[TmEE]

My Dreamcast's GD drive fried few days ago... motor controller chip had a hole in the middle... least I had a spare drive. Dreamcast is not hard to mod... space can be an issue if you want something BIG. I don't think this is very common what happened to me... all machines with a CD/DVD drive will end up dead someday (due to mechanical stress).

Game Gears will all become half dead within some more years... Sega has some poor capacitors in the machines which start to leak... replace the caps and the system is good as new (but only if the caps have not leaked for too long... that leakage is corrosive).

MD1 is heavy duty machine, these last for a long time. My MD2s doesn't seem any worse too. SMS(2) seems to be great too.

I have a SNES and a SFC, I can't tell anything much about them yet, they don't seem to be made poorly.

[108 Stars]

Basically I believe that cartridge consoles will last long if handled with care; but CD-systems are naturally more sensitive, with the lens being a milimeter off resulting in errors..... Overheating is a problem with modern consoles too.

[MN12BIRD]

No I have two SNES systems they both work fine and ones an original (has the separate Mitsumi sound processing box in the rear corner)

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e24/mn12bird/IMG_0018c.jpg

There aren't much caps in them and many of them seem to be those solid polymer type.

[TmEE]

I've got one same model (the separate SPU one) :)

[Psy]

Basically I believe that cartridge consoles will last long if handled with care; but CD-systems are naturally more sensitive, with the lens being a milimeter off resulting in errors..... Overheating is a problem with modern consoles too.
Cart based systems do get minor wear on the contacts, meaning they will go from being a firm connection to losing contact when you bump the system, to having to wiggle the cart to get connect till lastly the contact become totally unreliable.

[108 Stars]

But that will happen a very long time after any CD-console has already died.

[j_factor]

I've never had any problems with a Saturn on the CD end, but one of my Saturns doesn't recognize cartridges anymore, and I've heard of other people having that problem.

[Psy]

But that will happen a very long time after any CD-console has already died.
Both my Genesis and SMS no longer have a firm tight connection with cartridges and while both still makes a good connection every time I insert a cart, both loses the connection whenever I accidentally bump the system.

[108 Stars]

of course that CAN happen and will happen someday...

but still cartridge systems are generally much less sensitive than anything that runs CDs or DVDs....my MD has survived a lot of traveling and still works; not like on day 1, as the deepest part of the cart slot seems dead (I must not push the cart in completely), but overall....I´d say that this comes from the parts contained in such old consoles being much simpler and sturdier.

CD-players on the other hand....I have 3 defective audio CD players, 1 defective DVD-player,3 defective PlayStations and one defective Dreamcast; my PS2 did a fine job since 2001 so far, but I don´t expect that to last much longer.

It´s the same with many of today´s electronics; the higher developed it is, the more damageable it is. With CD systems a bit of dust on the lens or slightly wrong adjustment can cause malfunctioning. You can throw Mega Drives or SNES against the wall on the other hand and nothing happens; or fix such issues as the pins in the cart slot not having contact with rather primitive means, while adjusting a lens is a delicate and tedious job.

[17daysolderthannes]

I think all of you are confusing necessary maintenance once every 20 years with complete system death. I have a CD player that used to be my sisters from like 95 and she used it daily for hours at a time and it still works just fine. Hell, my dad has a REALLY old magazine load CD player from the 80's and it still works brilliantly.

I mean, come on guys, there are original Pac Man arcades still in working order all over the place. Yeah, you may have to buy a new cartridge slot or clean the laser every once in a while, but true, unfixable death is years and years off. Like I already said, my original NES still has kung fu grip like when it was new, you have to just treat it gently, not smash your games in and rip them out at odd angles. Aren't Genesis cart slots removable? you could probably take it out and clean it with a toothbrush and some rubbing alcohol or anti-corrosion electronic cleaner and have it work like new. There's about a 90% chance the "looseness" is from dirt slightly lubricating the slot rather than the metal getting looser. Permanently bending pins is difficult (more like impossible) to do with proper operation and the minimal wear from insertion would take literally thousands if not millions of cycles to completely render it inoperable.

[MN12BIRD]

I think all of you are confusing necessary maintenance once every 20 years with complete system death. I have a CD player that used to be my sisters from like 95 and she used it daily for hours at a time and it still works just fine. Hell, my dad has a REALLY old magazine load CD player from the 80's and it still works brilliantly.

I mean, come on guys, there are original Pac Man arcades still in working order all over the place. Yeah, you may have to buy a new cartridge slot or clean the laser every once in a while, but true, unfixable death is years and years off. Like I already said, my original NES still has kung fu grip like when it was new, you have to just treat it gently, not smash your games in and rip them out at odd angles. Aren't Genesis cart slots removable? you could probably take it out and clean it with a toothbrush and some rubbing alcohol or anti-corrosion electronic cleaner and have it work like new. There's about a 90% chance the "looseness" is from dirt slightly lubricating the slot rather than the metal getting looser. Permanently bending pins is difficult (more like impossible) to do with proper operation and the minimal wear from insertion would take literally thousands if not millions of cycles to completely render it inoperable.

And how many first model SPCH-1XXX to 3XXX series PSX's don't work now? The first few model variations of the PSX CD-ROM lens rides on plastic rails that wore out in some cases in less than one year! No amount of maintenance or cleaning can fix them. What about model 1 Sega CDs too for that matter! It just Depends on how well the drive assembly was built to begin with. I mean even DCs are failing left, right and center. CD players only have to read a linear audio CD at 1X so its a little less complicated as well.

[108 Stars]

That is correct. There are things that cannot be solved just by handling the systems with care; I do so too, believe me, but whenever there are cheap parts used or manufacturing errors defects that can not be solved just by cleaning are inaviteable.

This may also come from the price range in which you buy products; with consoles you have no choice, but for example I can imagine that my 70 Euro CD-Player just has cheaper parts in it.
And sadly console systems have a tendency of being manufactured as cheap as possible in order to be able to compete on the market.