"Sonic Adventure", ten years later. (December 23, 1998)

[Aarzak]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_Adventure

Man........I can't believe it's been ten years already. I remember buying the November 1998 issue of EGM (with the big Sonic artwork that would eventually be used for its cover art) that fall and just salivating at the BIG feature they had for the game along with all of the screenshots (some of areas that were never featured in the final game) and descriptions of the game and the characters.......they often compared the game to Super Mario 64 at the time, and how it would blow it away and be as revolutionary as said game was upon its release. They also emphasized the OMGBBQ blazing speed, which in retrospect just didn't translate well into the complicated world of 3D.

Of course, most of us got our first taste of the game beginning on 9/9/99. The magazines and the gaming press loved it, as did most consumers. Finally, after the dry spell in quality Sonic games since the release of S3&K in 1994, the 'hog was BACK. The future sure looked bright for Sega and Sonic after the release of what ended up becoming the Dreamcast's best-selling game ever (1+ million copies.........sad isn't it?).

Ten years and several 3D Sonic installments (none of which I have played, only seen or heard of, true story) later...........where do you think Sega and the Sonic franchise are standing now?


THIS, as I assume was the case with many, was the game that made me want a Sega Dreamcast. I strongly believe that, as a kid I would've been more crazy about the Sega Saturn had "Sonic X-Treme" or any 3D Sonic game come out. It was the killer-app, the long-awaited one. I first played SA for myself on the demo disc that came with all first-gen DC's, on a then-friend's DC in the fall of 1999. Mere days before Y2K I got my own DC, and played that demo again to my heart's content until I finally got a copy of SA (along with "NBA 2K" and "WWF Attitude") on my birthday in January 2000. Having not really experienced 3D platformers before, I really enjoyed the game and it made for one of my most memorable gaming experiences of 2000........up until a couple of months ago I STILL had my completed save file for the game from the summer of 2000 (my first ever run) but I deleted it.

Honestly, since then I've yet to play another 3D Sonic game or any new Sonic game for that matter..........I just haven't been intrigued or interested enough. Not even "Sonic Adventure 2", which I followed since it was first announced. In retrospect, the first SA did its job very well, but the game was very sloppy.

[j_factor]

I remember playing the Japanese versions of this and Virtua Fighter 3tb before the DC launched here, and feeling utterly unimpressed.

[Rusty Venture]

10 years and "Sonic Adventure"?

Thursday makes the 16th anniversary of me getting "Sonic 2". It's old enough to drive!

[Phantar]

By the time the Dreamcast was released I had become too disappointed in anything Sega that I didn't pay attention to them anymore. After hoping in vain my Saturn would be blessed with a true original Sonic release (DON'T YOU DARE MENTION SONIC R!!!), I let them fall by the wayside (and I think many felt the same way).

So, the release of Sonic Adventure completely passed me by. Only when the Dreamcast had gone the way of the Dodo I noticed that there had been not only one, but TWO Sonic Adventure-games released in the years gone by.

The first "new" Sonic game I realized hitting the market again was, ironically, "Shadow the Hedgehog". And from what I've seen so far, it has gone downhill with the blue blur from then on out.

[Aarzak]

I remember playing the Japanese versions of this and Virtua Fighter 3tb before the DC launched here, and feeling utterly unimpressed.

I bet, considering the original Japanese releases were buggy and less polished........but it still was a step up from the likes of the PS1 & N64. I was disappointed that SA was running at 30FPS, and not 60 like I heard.

[Rusty Venture]

Sonic R

[Phantar]

Sonic R

AAAAAAaaaarrrggghhhh... *meltdown*

[chammyman]

I would pick Sonic adventure over mario 64 anyday and I paid silly money for mario 64 brand new as I preffered nintendo over sega back then.

[Kollision]

I was deeply disappointed in this game.
For me it's one of the reasons Sonic died.

[ceibant]

Sonic Adventure was awesome when it first came out. I remember going to Toys R Us one day, and I saw my brother playing the demo before the DC actually came out. I ran over there, told him to get off (I'm the big brother, hehe). I remember standing there in awe of everything. Me playing the Dreamcast, seeing Sonic in 3D whizzing through the stages, etc. I HAD to have a Dreamcast that Christmas, and I sure did get it. I got a bunch of crap games though, lol. Slave Zero, WWF Attitude, and some other ones. Still though, I had the newest system on the block and I was happy. Sonic Adventure doesn't hold up as well nowadays though, but I still find it enjoyable (as long as I'm only playing with Sonic)!!

[Scooter]

I got a Dreamcast long after its heyday, just about two years ago. Sonic Adventure to date is still my favorite DC game.

[Iron Lizard]

My brother paid the extra bucks for a Japanese DC. It was freak'n awesome at the time. He got Sonic, Sega Rally 2, and Pin Pin. Only PinPin sucked. My only complaint with Sonic is that took a while to find any real action when I did it was great. I prefer his voice in the Japanese version " YOU CAN DOOOO IT"

[Christuserloeser]

I strongly believe that, as a kid I would've been more crazy about the Sega Saturn had "Knuckles Chaotix" or any 2D Sonic game come out.

There, I fixed that for you :)

[Tanegashima]

I never really 'lost faith' in Sega, after the Saturn was canceled I literally stopped keeping track. I got a DC later on, disliked it and sold it off. I remember somewhat rooting for the Dreamcast but something inside me always knew it would fail.

Sonic Adventure is pretty cool, it certainly wowed me when it came out (graphically at least). But like most games that have come out since, it really doesn't have the replay value of the original sonic games...I beat it once and I was basically done forever.


I still play Sonic 1-3/knuckles. Constantly.

I wonder why that is...because I am literally not bored, I'm always trying to out do myself in the originals, higher score, all chaos emeralds, better time, more extra lives, more continues etc.

For some reason modern games just don't seem to offer the variety of challenge.

Btw: the Saturn does it for me without a new Sonic Game. Sonic Jam is amazing and keeps me satisfied. I think the Saturn is well represented by Nights into Dreams, that game is amazing pure and simple. The Panzer Dragoon series also makes it kickass. It just kicks ass. Saturn FTW.

[MrMatthews]

I agree with nearly everything you just said tanegashima. Today's games are more immersive experiences (for the most part), but they suffer horribly in replay value. I may have enjoyed every second of a 20 hour zelda game, but I'm not too keen to invest that time a second time.

By the way, are Saturns expensive these days? I think it might be time to add one to my collection. Thing is, I haven't even seen one since 1998, let alone the games.

[ceibant]

I used to have a Saturn back in the day, but I sold it to some kid for $400 in high school. Lol, I remember he used to give me his lunch money every single day in order to pay for the Saturn. Poor kid starved himself for a Saturn, lol. Anyway, I regret having sold it now. I used to have probably close to 50 games back then...sigh...

[Elusive]

Sonic Adventure is by far and beyond my favourite Dreamcast game. The music, the silly,-simple-but-fun plot, and the brilliant final boss all come together in a wonderful way!

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[TheEdge]

Ironically I didn't get Sonic Adventure until way after I collected most of my DC games. I have the "Sega All Stars" version of Sonic Adventure 1 and I just purchased a used copy of Sonic Adventure 2 a few months ago at a flee market.

Both games are great and both got phenomenal reviews, after that however lets just say its been all down hill.

[johnnyb]

Both games are great and both got phenomenal reviews, after that however lets just say its been all down hill.

Probably not so much as down hill as straight off a cliff!:)

[TheEdge]

Probably not so much as down hill as straight off a cliff!:)

lol :cool:

[j_factor]

I bet, considering the original Japanese releases were buggy and less polished........but it still was a step up from the likes of the PS1 & N64. I was disappointed that SA was running at 30FPS, and not 60 like I heard.

Oh yeah, it was definitely still a step up, but it didn't quite feel like a whole new generation. It felt more like the difference between Playstation and 3DO. At the time I didn't really have a concept of just how rushed the Japanese Dreamcast launch was, and I didn't know that the DC port of VF3tb was done in six weeks by Genki. Close to the US launch, when I saw Tokyo Xtreme Racer and Soul Calibur, my mind was changed about the system's prowess. There's also the fact that the Dreamcast came so much earlier than the competition that we had no idea what the other systems would look like, so we didn't really have a frame of reference. Once the PS2 came out and I saw what its games looked like, I was extra convinced that the Dreamcast was firmly in the new generation. But the Dreamcast's first several months in Japan were very rough, and it's not hard to see why it didn't do too well there early on (especially considering the situation with the Saturn).

[Genesis Knight]

I don't think I've ever beaten the last run of the first stage of SA1, and I got bored of SA2 in one of the early Knuckles levels.

To be honest I'd rather play Sonic Heroes than a SA.

[TheEdge]

^

I hate the knuckle stages as well. Boring and tedious.

[Melf]

Probably not so much as down hill as straight off a cliff!:)

The cliff's at the bottom of the hill.

Yeah, SA 2 should have just been called "Knuckles Scavenger Hunt." I loved the first game, but the second one just never grew on me.

[Rusty Venture]

The Knuckles stages are where I got bored with the game too.

I'm seeing a pattern here.

[j_factor]

I wasn't crazy about the Knuckles stages in SA2 either, but I thought they were at least better than SA1's Knuckles stages.

[17daysolderthannes]

I remember playing the Japanese release of Sonic Adventure at Babbage's months before it was released in America. I was one of the few too, I asked one of the employees about it and he took the controller out of cabinet and just let me play, it wasn't a store display or anything. I almost shit my pants that every footprint stayed in the sand of the beach on the first level. Man I wish I had a dreamcast back then, oh well, I have one now :) . Tony Hawk is also the best on Dreamcast.

[Elusive]

The Pumpkin Hill theme is head-boppingly brilliant - I prefer the SA1 version of Knuckles' theme over the SA2 version, funnily enough. Love the gospel-y chorus :)

[David J.]

I got Sonic Adventure 2 in MINT condition at a friggin' Goodwill for $5 back in San Antonio while I was in Tech School.

The week before they tried to sell me a SHIT condition POD Speedzone for $8!

:D

[Iron Lizard]

Oh yeah, it was definitely still a step up, but it didn't quite feel like a whole new generation. It felt more like the difference between Playstation and 3DO. At the time I didn't really have a concept of just how rushed the Japanese Dreamcast launch was, and I didn't know that the DC port of VF3tb was done in six weeks by Genki. Close to the US launch, when I saw Tokyo Xtreme Racer and Soul Calibur, my mind was changed about the system's prowess. There's also the fact that the Dreamcast came so much earlier than the competition that we had no idea what the other systems would look like, so we didn't really have a frame of reference. Once the PS2 came out and I saw what its games looked like, I was extra convinced that the Dreamcast was firmly in the new generation. But the Dreamcast's first several months in Japan were very rough, and it's not hard to see why it didn't do too well there early on (especially considering the situation with the Saturn).

I sorta felt like that as well until I went over to my friends house and played his PS1 after I become used to the Dreamcast. It was difficult going back.

[Zebbe]

I've never tried this game, so I don't have anything to say about it.

[17daysolderthannes]

I sorta felt like that as well until I went over to my friends house and played his PS1 after I become used to the Dreamcast. It was difficult going back.

not me, the second I played Dreamcast I instantly heralded it as lightyears better than PSX or N64. I still think Dreamcast is completely on par with PS2, XBOX, and Gamecube and had it stuck around we would've seen the games to prove it.

[Jesse813]

I agree with nearly everything you just said tanegashima. Today's games are more immersive experiences (for the most part), but they suffer horribly in replay value. I may have enjoyed every second of a 20 hour zelda game, but I'm not too keen to invest that time a second time.

By the way, are Saturns expensive these days? I think it might be time to add one to my collection. Thing is, I haven't even seen one since 1998, let alone the games.

they cost about 20$ to 30$

[Kogen]

People here seem really emo about this and the Dreamcast; it is a good game. I would consider it the last good Sonic game on a console that was new (not collections and so on).

Most 3D platformers are either clunky, slow crap (Mario) or just weird shooting stuff (those Sony ones). This is the only 3D one I can think of that is still fun, the rest all aged badly.

[j_factor]

not me, the second I played Dreamcast I instantly heralded it as lightyears better than PSX or N64. I still think Dreamcast is completely on par with PS2, XBOX, and Gamecube and had it stuck around we would've seen the games to prove it.

Actually I agree. Dreamcast especially compares favorably to PS2. IMO Dreamcast games tended to have significantly better texturing than PS2 games; this may have something to do with the fact that PS2 has half the VRAM. I don't believe the PS2 hardware supports anti-aliasing or bump mapping (except in software of course), and only a fraction of PS2 games support progressive scan. In terms of pure power, the Dreamcast makes up for its comparatively weaker CPU/GPU by using deferred rendering.

And even though the DC's life was cut short, I can only think of a small number of Gamecube and Xbox games (and no PS2 games) that are really significantly beyond what had been done on Dreamcast. I remember when technical details of the PS2 port of RE4 were leaked, the poly counts were comfortably within what had been done in released Dreamcast games.

[MrMatthews]

Is there a Dreamcast game in particular that is a "graphical showcase?" Most of my GameCube/PS2 games look a lot better than any of my Dreamcast games . . . but I really only have the "cartoony" games for the DC.

[Aarzak]

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[Tanegashima]

you people and Shenmue...

[MrMatthews]

*stands beside Tanegashima, crosses arms, and shakes head disapprovingly at the rest of the forum.

[johnnyb]

Shenmue is one of my all time favourite games, I should have never sold my dreamcast all those years ago... just as well I plan on buying another soon and starting a new collection!:D

[Aarzak]

Love it or hate it, the Shenmues are arguably the best-looking Dreamcast games, and still amaze me 7-8 years later........of course, seeing as I've essentially missed out on most of the last console generation and have yet to get into this one I'd say that. But those game's graphics were FAR above anything seen on the N64 or PS1.

Now then, Tanegashima, MrMatthews, get up..........I'll allow you to die, like a warrior.

*has never played the Shenmue series past the first disc of part 1, and doesn't like it much either*

[MrMatthews]

Now then, Tanegashima, MrMatthews, get up..........I'll allow you to die, like a warrior.

Don't mind me - I've never even played Shenmue. I just like to take a stand on something, whether I know what everyone's talking about or not. :)


But those game's graphics were FAR above anything seen on the N64 or PS1.

This is an interesting direction this conversation is taking. I've gotten in a *friendly* argument with someone on this forum about whether the Dreamcast was part of any generation at all, or if it was more or less stuck between the PSX and PS2 generations. With all this talk about how the DC compares to either console, what is everyone's opinion?

I've always heard that the DC was a middle child, but didn't it come out only six months or so before the PS2? As far as graphics go, nothing I've really seen on the DC compares too favorably with the GameCube or PS2, but all looks much better than the N64 & PSX.

[Iron Lizard]

When Ps2 first came out it compared very well and better in some cases. We didn't really get to see much past that. Instead of a middle child I like to think of the Dreamcast as a still born child of that generation. I don't think we will really know what could have been done with it.

[MrMatthews]

Well, here's foundation of my opinion of the graphics of the DC compared to the GameCube

GC - Rogue Squadron II: Rogue Leader / Metroid Prime > DC - Sonic Adventure

[Iron Lizard]

I am not much of tech guy but both the Gamecube and Xbox are supposed to be stronger then Ps2 and Dreamcast right?

[MrMatthews]

Are they? I'm not much of a tech guy either. I've always heard that the GC was underpowered compared to the XBox, but I haven't heard it compared to the PS2 one way or the other.

Perhaps I'm looking at it a bit too simplistically, but if the Dreamcast was supposed to be in the same league as the PS2/GameCube/XBox (roughly), why can so few of its games visually hold up to games from those competing consoles?

Perhaps a better comparison would be Shenmue (what I've seen in the clip above, anyway) to something like Shadow of the Colossus on the PS2. Or any of the GTA games (which don't look too much better than PSX games, IMO)

[j_factor]

Is there a Dreamcast game in particular that is a "graphical showcase?" Most of my GameCube/PS2 games look a lot better than any of my Dreamcast games . . . but I really only have the "cartoony" games for the DC.

Shenmue II, Headhunter, Sonic Adventure 2, Floigan Bros., Heavy Metal: Geomatrix (seriously), Space Channel 5 Part 2, the 2K2 sports games, PSO, Outtrigger, Daytona 2001, etc. All of these later Dreamcast games were on par with anything on any other system circa 2001.


I am not much of tech guy but both the Gamecube and Xbox are supposed to be stronger then Ps2 and Dreamcast right?

Yes. I would put Dreamcast slightly above PS2 and below Gamecube, with Xbox on top. Even then, the differences between all four aren't really vast.


Perhaps I'm looking at it a bit too simplistically, but if the Dreamcast was supposed to be in the same league as the PS2/GameCube/XBox (roughly), why can so few of its games visually hold up to games from those competing consoles?

I don't know about "so" few, but a big part of it is because Dreamcast games came out in 1999-2001, whereas Xbox and Gamecube games came out in 2001-2005. Plus, a large number of Dreamcast games were PS1 ports. And, specifically with regard to Xbox, I think developers making Xbox games put the biggest priority on graphics. In general, the vast majority of games released aren't aiming to have the best visuals, but Xbox had more of those efforts than most. Even so, it's only really a fraction of the Xbox library.


Perhaps a better comparison would be Shenmue (what I've seen in the clip above, anyway) to something like Shadow of the Colossus on the PS2. Or any of the GTA games (which don't look too much better than PSX games, IMO)

Compare Shenmue (the first one) to Shadow of Destiny on PS2. Shenmue looks a lot better. Or look at any game that was on both PS2 and Dreamcast... every single one (unless I'm forgetting something) is better on DC.

[TheEdge]

Shenmue II, Headhunter, Sonic Adventure 2, Floigan Bros., Heavy Metal: Geomatrix (seriously), Space Channel 5 Part 2, the 2K2 sports games, PSO, Outtrigger, Daytona 2001, etc. All of these later Dreamcast games were on par with anything on any other system circa 2001.



Yes. I would put Dreamcast slightly above PS2 and below Gamecube, with Xbox on top. Even then, the differences between all four aren't really vast.



I don't know about "so" few, but a big part of it is because Dreamcast games came out in 1999-2001, whereas Xbox and Gamecube games came out in 2001-2005. Plus, a large number of Dreamcast games were PS1 ports. And, specifically with regard to Xbox, I think developers making Xbox games put the biggest priority on graphics. In general, the vast majority of games released aren't aiming to have the best visuals, but Xbox had more of those efforts than most. Even so, it's only really a fraction of the Xbox library.



Compare Shenmue (the first one) to Shadow of Destiny on PS2. Shenmue looks a lot better. Or look at any game that was on both PS2 and Dreamcast... every single one (unless I'm forgetting something) is better on DC.


^ Good points and I may be repeating you here but

I noticed that DC was a quasi-next gen console combining games from the previous generation like Rush 2049, Tomb Raider: Last Revelation, Soul Reaver, ect and making them better. Mostly just rendering them appropriately. Like J-Factor said above all of the DC games around the 2000-2001 era not only preformed better but they looked and felt better. The biggest shame to the "official" demise the the DC is that right before they tried to forget about it they were coming out with some very amazing looking games. I would suggest people to check out the game Ooga Booga. It was one of the last games for DC and it is impressive how smooth they pushed the preformance and graphics. Also to concur with J-factor all of the games looked better on DC but I have to admit unless I have a defective DC some (not all) of the games on PS2 ran a lot smoother.

[NeoVamp]

Yes. I would put Dreamcast slightly above PS2 and below Gamecube,
with Xbox on top. Even then, the differences between all four aren't really vast.


Actually its more like this, going by cpu speeds and date of release.
(the later the release the more advanced the technology)

1. Xbox (last one to be released, had a 733mhz cpu)
2. Gamecube (485mhz cpu)
3. PS2 (299mhz cpu)
4. Dreamcast (200mhz cpu)

This is why the Gamecube & Xbox games looked sharper then the PS2 games,
which is.. kinda weird to know since the PS2 won the sales war,
i mean.. isn't this supposed to be a time where everybody only looks at what games look like?

And even then i wonder why in my mind the DC games still looked "cleaner" then any ps2 game i have seen since then.
(my ps2 and dc are both hooked up via rgb)

[TheEdge]

^ True but someone once told me that even though the processor was 99mhz slower than the PS2's it was superior in other departments. Also the Dreamcast had a brighter look, I don't know if it had anything to do with its hardware but if you look at any PS2 game compared to a DC game the DC games are brighter and better looking while the PS2games are darker, more bland colored but better detailed.

This is a common debate when criticing these consoles. I don't know what the answer is some people say DC is better some say PS2 is better either way we can't really tell because the final games that came out for the DC were only the tip of the iceberg. Some say it could of handled a lot more.

[j_factor]

Actually its more like this, going by cpu speeds and date of release.
(the later the release the more advanced the technology)

1. Xbox (last one to be released, had a 733mhz cpu)
2. Gamecube (485mhz cpu)
3. PS2 (299mhz cpu)
4. Dreamcast (200mhz cpu)

This is why the Gamecube & Xbox games looked sharper then the PS2 games,
which is.. kinda weird to know since the PS2 won the sales war,
i mean.. isn't this supposed to be a time where everybody only looks at what games look like?

And even then i wonder why in my mind the DC games still looked "cleaner" then any ps2 game i have seen since then.
(my ps2 and dc are both hooked up via rgb)

Although the Dreamcast has a slower CPU, I would put its overall graphics performance above PS2. It had twice the VRAM, and its GPU supports things like anti-aliasing and bump mapping which are absent from the PS2 hardware. Additionally, Dreamcast is the only system to have used deferred rendering, which effectively lets it do more with less. A game that has 5 million polygons per second on Gamecube might only need to be 3 million to look exactly the same on Dreamcast.

[TheEdge]

^ Yea, it was the polygon thing. Now I remember. Everyone always throws that in in the PS2 vs DC debate.

Wish on 9/9/09 Sega put out a new DC game that really pushed it to its limits. That would be great but I know its not realistic.

[Smii]

Coincidentally, I only just played this game for the first time last week (Gamecube DX version). It's not terribly bad, but ike SA2 (which I played first) it isn't Sonic.

One of the biggest issues I have with SA - why hell he have to get on a train to go everywhere? Modern conveniences & transportation made him lazy??

[Rusty Venture]

That *is* a bit confusing, since he can run faster than the damn train...

[Ace]

I was disappointed that SA was running at 30FPS, and not 60 like I heard.

So this explains why on the Dreamcast, the game seems to run rougher than on the GameCube. And here I was thinking the Dreamcast was just unable to keep up with the game(kind of like Sega Rally 2, where most of the time, the game's running at 30FPS, except there are framerate spikes(up to 60FPS) and drops(down to 15FPS or so) here and there; but that's a game running on Windows CE, so it doesn't really compare).

But for me, Sonic Adventure is not my favorite 3D Sonic game. That would be Sonic Adventure 2 for me. Don't get me wrong, the game's good, but these things keep it from being my favorite 3D Sonic game:

-The free-roaming parts(I can't stand those)
-Controls are oversensitive(this only affects the GameCube version, from what I experienced - it doesn't make the game unplayable, however)
-THE CAMERA! That piece of crap camera, at a certain point in the game, starts to rotate around Sonic's head(I haven't played as anyone else just yet), forcing me to move him around in circles just to keep the camera focused on what's ahead. Not sure if the Dreamcast version is affected by this(I presume it is), but it's a quite big pain on the GameCube.

[TheEdge]

^ GameCubes hardware is far superior to Dreamcast by a few years so the preformance is of course better on GC.

All of your gripes though are justified though except the control one. The DC in my opinion had OK controls.

[Ace]

^ GameCubes hardware is far superior to Dreamcast by a few years so the preformance is of course better on GC.

Duh.


All of your gripes though are justified though except the control one. The DC in my opinion had OK controls.

The Dreamcast is fine control-wise. It's the GameCube version that I think is a little bit oversensitive, making for sometimes rough movement because of:

A) the quite big deadzone before controls are registered.
B) how little you have to move the analog stick before whoever you're controlling starts to run. It's almost like the game has digital controls.

[TheEdge]

The GC controller was very strange. I never got used to it other than when I was playing RE4 at my friends house.

[Ace]

For Sonic Adventure 2, the GameCube controller works much better, but still more sensitive than on the Dreamcast.

As for the GameCube controller in general, being as I was used to a Nintendo 64 controller for almost 4 years(I bought my Nintendo 64 in 1997), I had a hard time getting accustomed to the GameCube's analog stick, not to mention I've had reliability problems with Nintendo's own controller. First, the C-Stick starting giving me problems(I think I might have accidentally spilled something over it), and now, the analog stick keeps on registering full up/down movement EVEN WHEN CENTERED! So I got a MadCatz GameCube controller and have not had a single problem with it(except that the rubber coating on the C-Stick wore out). It works well for driving games and games like Star Wars Rogue Squadron II and III, but other than that, it's pretty awkward.

[Elusive]

One of the biggest issues I have with SA - why hell he have to get on a train to go everywhere? Modern conveniences & transportation made him lazy??

Because the game engine can't handle massive open spaces, and closing the train station is a convenient way to gently push the player towards a goal.

Perhaps if Big's English voice actor didn't use the 'DUUUR' voice, and instead played him as the chilled-out, laid-back guy he's described as to this day, the character would get more respect. Big is cool; I can't not like a guy who just wants to go fishing with his frog friend.

Oh, and Sonic the Comic Online is a turd. Just throwing that out there.

[TheEdge]

When I was younger I always used to catch about 5-10 minutes of Sonic the Hedghog cartoon before going to school.

I am so surprised that that freakin blue Hedgehog and all of his cartoon / comics / other crap wasnt made by Ted Turner.

Its such an environmentalists icon it rivals Captain Planet.

I mean just think of it. A blue Hedgehog and a two-tailed fox fighting a evil scientists that wants to destroy the world and use animals to power his machines. I mean it just screams Green Peace.

[Rusty Venture]

As for the GameCube controller in general, being as I was used to a Nintendo 64 controller for almost 4 years...

How you managed to like the N64 controller I'll never know.

After using it, I wanted to find the people who designed it and beat them to death with the controller.

[MrMatthews]

the analog stick keeps on registering full up/down movement EVEN WHEN CENTERED!

I've come across a lot of used controllers that have this problem. I've almost always been able to fix them by taking the controller apart and wiggling the stick mechanism around and re-seating the thumbstick.


How you managed to like the N64 controller I'll never know.

After using it, I wanted to find the people who designed it and beat them to death with the controller.

It wasn't that bad. It was the first of its kind, as far as I know, so there was definite room for improvement. It was certainly easy to hold on to, as long as you were holding it like a gun rather than as you would a modern controller. Those stupid c-buttons always pissed me off, though.

Nintendo definitely made a huge leap with the GameCube controller, however: particularly the Wavebird. I love that thing.

[Rusty Venture]

I refuse to let up on my N64 hate.

Even if I didn't dislike everything about the system, I still know every other game system I own would laugh at it....especially my NES.

[MrMatthews]

That's fair. And if you want to hate the N64, you go right on hating it.

Just throwing it out there that the N64 controller, awkward as it was, was a still decent launching pad towards the better controllers, and it was good enough to get some use out of what few games that were worth playing on the N64.

[Tanegashima]

Is there any conclusion on who had the first analogue stick on a standard controller? Was it Sega's 3D controller or did the N64 beat it to the market?


...not talking strictly analogue sticks here...the Vectrex and 5200 had them long before...

[MrMatthews]

I've always read that Nintendo gets the credit for developing the first analog-stick-usin' controller.

[Rusty Venture]

I'd also give them props for making the first game system to replicate what it is like to have bad vision and not wear your glasses.

:ok: TOTAL JAWUSUMNESS.

[j_factor]

I'd also give them props for making the first game system to replicate what it is like to have bad vision and not wear your glasses.

They get bonus props for doing so right after coming out with the first game system to damage your vision. :D

[Tanegashima]

It certainly wasn't the first with an analogue stick Atari and Vectrex and I believe the Arcadia whatever it was all had fully analogue controllers, but I'm skeptical just because I'm not clear when the Saturn 3D controller actually came out....But its very clear that they were both being developed at the same time and no doubt independently of each other...

[Ace]

How you managed to like the N64 controller I'll never know.

You will now. I mainly play driving games, and for proper control of the cars, I feel the Nintendo 64 controller works best because of how I can hold the analog stick(I wrap my index finger and thumb around it). But if there's one thing I hate about the controller is this: the analog stick loosening up. Worst part is that I was given a controller(translucent purple) with an EXTREMELY loose analog stick, and I can't fix it(I will put up a thread for those that can help me out).

[TheEdge]

You will now. I mainly play driving games, and for proper control of the cars, I feel the Nintendo 64 controller works best because of how I can hold the analog stick(I wrap my index finger and thumb around it). But if there's one thing I hate about the controller is this: the analog stick loosening up. Worst part is that I was given a controller(translucent purple) with an EXTREMELY loose analog stick, and I can't fix it(I will put up a thread for those that can help me out).

Surprisingly I never had a problem with the N64 controller. Looked weird as hell at the time but worked for almost everything. Golden Eye and Starfox 64 in particular.

[j_factor]

It certainly wasn't the first with an analogue stick Atari and Vectrex and I believe the Arcadia whatever it was all had fully analogue controllers, but I'm skeptical just because I'm not clear when the Saturn 3D controller actually came out....But its very clear that they were both being developed at the same time and no doubt independently of each other...

The Saturn analog controller came out slightly before the N64 was launched.

[Tanegashima]

I knew it!!

Hail Sega!

[MrMatthews]

I've yet to see this Saturn controller. Was the stick a stupid little twig like the N64's, or was it more like the Dreamcast's?

[Ghaleon]

I've yet to see this Saturn controller. Was the stick a stupid little twig like the N64's, or was it more like the Dreamcast's?

It was--and still is--unique in a first-party analog "stick," to my knowledge. The thumb-rest was a concave indentation in an almost spherical ball that rotated in a socket: it had grip-like rings set in the indentation. I recall it working pretty well, but it did seem to have a bit more travel to it than today's analog sticks--maybe that's why it was never immitated...

[Rusty Venture]

Works ok in "Outrun", but "Afterburner" and "Space Harrier" demand the Mission Stick.


Good for lefties and righties!

[MrMatthews]

Is there any conclusion on who had the first analogue stick on a standard controller? Was it Sega's 3D controller or did the N64 beat it to the market?


...not talking strictly analogue sticks here...the Vectrex and 5200 had them long before...

I did a bit more research into this, and I thought i'd report back with my findings for ya'll to dismiss and/or debunk.

The N64 control stick wasn't true analog. It was still digital, but offered varying degrees of sensitivity so as to simulate analog control quite convincingly.

After the 5200's controller was so badly received, no one thought to include an analog control stick on their controllers (as evidenced by the original pads for the PSX and Saturn). After the N64 controller was unveiled, Sega and Sony scrambled to get their own competing controllers onto the market.

Sega reacted so quickly that their controller debuted in the states before the N64's launch.

[Iron Lizard]

I've yet to see this Saturn controller. Was the stick a stupid little twig like the N64's, or was it more like the Dreamcast's?

http://www.edu.lahti.fi/~aaspinen/kuvat/sekalaiset/Sega_saturn_analog_controller.jpg

[Rusty Venture]

I forgot the US version was black, I have the lighter colored Japanese one.

Funky colored buttons too.

[j_factor]

I did a bit more research into this, and I thought i'd report back with my findings for ya'll to dismiss and/or debunk.

The N64 control stick wasn't true analog. It was still digital, but offered varying degrees of sensitivity so as to simulate analog control quite convincingly.

After the 5200's controller was so badly received, no one thought to include an analog control stick on their controllers (as evidenced by the original pads for the PSX and Saturn). After the N64 controller was unveiled, Sega and Sony scrambled to get their own competing controllers onto the market.

Sega reacted so quickly that their controller debuted in the states before the N64's launch.

I don't think the Saturn analog controller was a reaction to the N64 one. It was designed for NiGHTS, which was already well into development by the time the N64 controller was shown. I remember reading in SSM that NiGHTS officially began development on April Fool's Day 1995, and the controller was designed six months later. That would put it at almost two months before the N64 controller was shown. Sega might have had insider knowledge of the N64 controller before the general public, but I doubt it; Nintendo was notoriously secretive about it. Remember also that the Mission Stick and Arcade Racer were both analog, and were available at launch.

[Iron Lizard]

I forgot the US version was black, I have the lighter colored Japanese one.

Funky colored buttons too.

Funky colored buttons kick ass. It always bugged me they took away the color from the American controllers, Snes, Saturn.

[Rusty Venture]

I don't care what anyone says, those red, blue, green, yellow buttons on the Super Fami looked cool.

Plus the Super Famicom case itself was sexy too.

Why the US SNES had to be made Sarah Jessica Parker fugly with friggin purple/lavender accents I have no idea.

[Ace]

Many people say it has to do with preventing drinks from being spilled inside the unit, though I'm not too sure about it. Having both the Super Famicom and Super NES, I can definitely say that the Super Famicom, even when discolored a bit, looks SOOOO much better than the US Super NES. It makes me want to buy a dead European Super NES and swapping out its motherboard with that of my US Super NES.

[Iron Lizard]

I always thought the multicolored buttons just looked like fun. Why would anyone want to take the fun away?

[MrMatthews]

Well, they corrected their mistakes with the Dreamcast controller. And then XBox joined in on the fun!

[Rusty Venture]

Many people say it has to do with preventing drinks from being spilled inside the unit, though I'm not too sure about it.

I'm inclined to believe Nintendo of America wanted us to have a system that looked like ass and had purple accents.

If drinks getting inside the damn thing was the concern then a slight altering of the design is in order, not a total redesign that makes the system look like some fugly-ass 1970's spaceship.

[Iron Lizard]

Drinks? I missed out on that story.

[Rusty Venture]

That is because that story is 100,000% lies.

[Ace]

And I'm willing to second that, though I will NEVER understand Nintendo's decision to redesign the Super NES into that boxy thing we got. Hell, even the redesigned Super NES Mini looks better, so much so that I have the full-size Super NES hiding on the side of my shelf(where you can only see it if you look directly in the shelf from where the TV is placed), while the Super NES Mini and Super Famicom are in the open in that same shelf.

[Dartagnan1083]

they cost about 20$ to 30$

Trouble is that the best Saturn games run about 3x to 4x the price you'll pay for the system itself.
So you had better mod it and save yourself the cash. . .unless you really really need all that plastic.


As for Sonic Adventure,
I have very fond memories of it, and horrendous memories of Sonic Adventure 2 ushering the end of the franchise (with a brief glimpse of some quality in Sonic Heroes [after the troublesome learning curve that led the twats of the world to write it off]).