Was sonic & Knuckles ever concidered for the 32X?

[winona]

Just wondering since the Sonic & Knuckles box look exactly like a 32X-box.

[David J.]

Most later Genesis and Mega Drive game boxes look like 32X boxes, so I doubt it.

[winona]

They do? Ive only seen sonic & Knuckles packed in a paper box. I know that there are 2 sorts of 32X boxes. Plastic ones and paper ones. This is PAL releases though. Were there many paper releases for the NTSC market? (genesis carts)

[j_factor]

No, it wasn't. Sonic & Knuckles was never anything other than "Sonic 3 part 2" -- originally Sonic 3 was supposed to be what Sonic 3 & Knuckles is, but Sega was adamant about Sonic 3 being released at a particular date, which forced them to cut Sonic 3 down to six zones. Rather than let the entire rest of the level design and code simply go to waste, they immediately started finishing it up for a separate release. In short, Sonic & Knuckles wasn't really supposed to exist, and it wasn't at all planned until shortly before Sonic 3's release. The connectivity feature precluded S&K from being on 32x.

[Elusive]

http://www.zonesega.com/img/Covers/Megadrive/Sonic%20The%20Hedgehog%203%20[EUR].jpg (copy-paste)

His left hand indicates 3, his right indicates 1.

Sonic 3 - 1.
Sonic and Knuckles = Sonic 3 -2.

Just a theory

[lordofduct]

Also, the similarity in the boxes just comes from the fact that SEGA got cheapy on the cases come the release of these games and 32X games. They were all cardboard come that time...

Vectorman1 and 2
Phantasy Star 4
Sonic 3D blast
earthworm jim2

just to name a few...

IIRC - the Sonic 3 and S+K were originally planned to be seperate but the same game at the same time from the get go. Sega just taking it's cash cow 'Sonic' to it's limits...

Personally I don't see them actually trying to jam the two of those games into one cartridge... the game would cost 100+ dollars due to the cost of memory at the time.

[GeckoYamori]

They were originally planned to be 1 single game. There are plenty of leftovers from S&K in Sonic 3 which has been accessed by hacking.

[lordofduct]

They were originally planned to be 1 single game. There are plenty of leftovers from S&K in Sonic 3 which has been accessed by hacking.
In an interview done by emulationzone.org (http://sost.emulationzone.org) with Mr. Hector who ran STI at the time of the making of Sonic 2, 3 and Knuckles says this:


UserSubQuestion: "Sonic the Hedgehog 3 was originally one game that was later split into two parts (Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles). Sonic & Knuckles introduced a number of elements that were not found in Sonic 3, such as the Super Emeralds, and the Lava Reef and Death Egg stages. Were these elements always intended to be included in the full Sonic 3 game?"

RH: The original Sonic 3 game was very aggressive in its scope. Massive really. So after getting started working on it, it was decided to split it in half, and spread the design across two games. This was good as there was no way all of it would fit in one game. The second game was developed later and the things you mention were introduced to add new, previously unseen game elements. I don't remember if they were originally in the larger game plan from the beginning as new things were added all the time.


It really wasn't planned right away to be 2 games true... but nor was it split due to time constraints... early in development it was split.

The relics of S+K being in Sonic3 do not explain anything. They could be there for multiple reasons. I.E.

1.)as you stated, made before plans of split
2.)developed for Sonic 3 and then was cut because they felt it fit better in S+K
3.)Test code for debugging different features
4.)Possibly even a teaser for the players and the innevitably released Debug code

On top of that, it would have to be noticed very early in the process of making that game that it just wouldn't fit into a cartridge further supporting what I said about them seeing it very early in the process. That many levels and data just wouldn't fit on one cartridge, and the developers would of known that once reaching level plans of mushroom hill or sandapolis (2 of the 3 extra levels in the level select of SOnic3. The 3rd Battery zone is level 5 but is not excessable. Showing it possibly could of been cut from Sonic 3 and placed in S+K for a multitude of reasons).

[winona]

Also, the similarity in the boxes just comes from the fact that SEGA got cheapy on the cases come the release of these games and 32X games. They were all cardboard come that time...

Vectorman1 and 2
Phantasy Star 4
Sonic 3D blast
earthworm jim2

just to name a few...

IIRC - the Sonic 3 and S+K were originally planned to be seperate but the same game at the same time from the get go. Sega just taking it's cash cow 'Sonic' to it's limits...

Personally I don't see them actually trying to jam the two of those games into one cartridge... the game would cost 100+ dollars due to the cost of memory at the time.

Ah, then its a regional thing aswell. All those games came in hard plastic boxes in Europe. Only sonic & knuckles wasever released using the paper box. Guess its diffrent in the US. Well, thx for filling m in anyway.

[Zebbe]

Also, the similarity in the boxes just comes from the fact that SEGA got cheapy on the cases come the release of these games and 32X games. They were all cardboard come that time...

Vectorman1 and 2
Phantasy Star 4
Sonic 3D blast
earthworm jim2

just to name a few...

That was just for the US. All those (except Vectorman 2, which never had any release here) had plastic cases. S&K is the only european game I've seen with a cardboard case, and I think it had that because the cart has an odd shape and the game itself was expensive.

[Obviously]

There were a few 32X games with plastic clamshell cases. Like NBA Jam: TE.

[David J.]

Yeah, I dunno why acclaim decided to do that.

[Joe Redifer]

Yeah... those bastards! I HATE quality boxes! I much prefer the cheap paper ones. I wish the cartridges themselves were made out of paper and all of the game graphics were in black and white. Cheap really is the best way to go.
[/sarcasm]

Anyway those Quarterback Clubs are really cheap, and I picked up a bunch of them. Now all of my 32X games have plastic boxes. Of course now I have a bunch o' Quarterback Club 32X carts with no homes.

[Melf]

And that's a bad thing? ;)

[Joe Redifer]

How many can I put you down for? :)

[David J.]

Run them over or burn them and video tape it!

[Lhadatt]

Both! But make sure you collect all the pieces from running them over before burning. We don't need any of that vile scourge leaking out from its containment area.

[Elusive]

In an interview done by emulationzone.org (http://sost.emulationzone.org) with Mr. Hector who ran STI at the time of the making of Sonic 2, 3 and Knuckles says this:



It really wasn't planned right away to be 2 games true... but nor was it split due to time constraints... early in development it was split.

The relics of S+K being in Sonic3 do not explain anything. They could be there for multiple reasons. I.E.

1.)as you stated, made before plans of split
2.)developed for Sonic 3 and then was cut because they felt it fit better in S+K
3.)Test code for debugging different features
4.)Possibly even a teaser for the players and the innevitably released Debug code

On top of that, it would have to be noticed very early in the process of making that game that it just wouldn't fit into a cartridge further supporting what I said about them seeing it very early in the process. That many levels and data just wouldn't fit on one cartridge, and the developers would of known that once reaching level plans of mushroom hill or sandapolis (2 of the 3 extra levels in the level select of SOnic3. The 3rd Battery zone is level 5 but is not excessable. Showing it possibly could of been cut from Sonic 3 and placed in S+K for a multitude of reasons).

The topic of Sonic 3 and Sonic and Knuckles has long been a mainstay of arguments in the Sonic research scene. It's been proven that S3 and S&K were developed simultaneously, by seperate but still linked teams - kind of like how Sonic CD and Sonic 2 are very similar, but developed by different people. Very, very early on in the development stage, they were one and the same, but too early to be even named officially. After preprototypes were finished, the game was developed seperately. An example of this is in the code that controls the 'post fall' aspect - you know, when you can hit the post at the end of a level to score bonus points? The same code that is used in Sonic 3 is used again in Sonic and Knuckles - when the Death Egg floor explodes at the end of Act 1, the post will continue falling. Proof some code was shared between the two, and that they were not split halfway through. The argument that there are level slots and data for MHZ, FBZ and Sandopolis is proof they're split is apocryphal, too.

I could go on for ages, but there are so many different theories and so little real proof or evidence that they were seperate from the start or split in development - even the makers of the game have told differenct stories when sceners tracked them down and bombarded them with questions. Te theory that they were split halfway through is the most common found on the Net, which is strange as it is actually the theory with the least amount of evidence to back it up with.