The downfall of Sonic Team?

[cj iwakura]

I read this article and thought of this website, so I figure you all would want to read this:

http://www.tssznews.com/2009/01/05/the-blog-sega-doesnt-want-you-to-read/

Supposedly an employer at Sega posted a blog entry that went on at length about how the Sonic Team are basically just being forced to make Sonic games on a 'factory assembly' basis, and no longer have their original creative spark.

I never knew about the drama surrounding the NiGHTS development.

The article makes me sad, especially in regards to AM2 and Smilebit being dissolved. Smilebit made all my favorite Sega games of the Xbox era, pretty much.

[Metal_Sonic]

In a nutshell, everyone here already knows. Everyone here was there when Sonic was repeatedly raped in his ass over and over again, and we did nothing.

[Tanegashima]

I will give Sonic Team credit for Sonic Rush though, its by far and away the best sonic game in 14 years...easily. It really holds up well, there are certainly aspects of it I am truly annoyed by, but overall it kicks the ass of just about every sonic game post Genesis. But IIRC Sonic Team in reality had nothing to do with Sonic Rush, they merely supervised its development...so maybe that's why it turned out so well.

Sonic Team used to make AMAZING games:
Sonic Jam
NighTs into Dreams
Burning Rangers
Ristar
ChuChu Rocket
and TECHNICALLY:
Kid Chameleon
Comix Zone
Die Hard Arcade


these were really awesome games.

[cj iwakura]

The NiGHTS sequel isn't bad, but the story is kind of dull.

At least Reala's still awesome.


Wasn't Sonic Rush developed by another team?

[Tanegashima]

Yes it was, but it was supervised by Sonic Team and it of course bears the logo of Sonic Team on its box, poster and in game...but in reality they had nothing to do with it.

...Journey into Dreams doesn't even come close to the original (edit...) as far as I'm concerned.

[MrMatthews]

...Journey into Dreams doesn't even come close to the sequel as far as I'm concerned.

And that's a shame, too. JID was one of those games that generated a lot of buzz . . . well, "hype" would be more accurate. I think everyone had high hopes, but it just didn't seem to deliver.

We need a new ChuChu Rocket

[Jesse813]

the only recent Sonic Game I like wasn't even made by Sonic Team, instead it was made by the greatly talented Bioware: Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood

[TheEdge]

I read this article and thought of this website, so I figure you all would want to read this:

http://www.tssznews.com/2009/01/05/the-blog-sega-doesnt-want-you-to-read/

Supposedly an employer at Sega posted a blog entry that went on at length about how the Sonic Team are basically just being forced to make Sonic games on a 'factory assembly' basis, and no longer have their original creative spark.

I never knew about the drama surrounding the NiGHTS development.

The article makes me sad, especially in regards to AM2 and Smilebit being dissolved. Smilebit made all my favorite Sega games of the Xbox era, pretty much.

Holy Crap man....Thank you

Somehow I new this was going on. I mean if you look at the Sega line up of titles over the years and then you look at them now you can tell that something is very wrong.

Thank you again for the article. ;)

[Ace]

This is like a punch in the face to me. I would have never expected there to be such a thing. I just hope Sonic Team doesn't end up going the direction of Sega Racing Studio(that sucked bigtime).

[vintagegamecrazy]

Let's face it, the game market is meant to cater to the masses now. It's not what it used to be quality is gone now, it seems like every company is just trying to make games for the casual gamer to pick up and play for a bit and never finish. It's really a shame as the direction of the market is not looking good for any publisher now.

[Christuserloeser]

Hard times for the poor publishers indeed.... not. Hard times for (some) developers (and gamers) I say, as the publishers control the games' content. The last time the software market was in a similar situation with it being flooded with bad and/or movie licensed games, Atari had to bury billions of ET carts in desert sand.



Regarding Sonic Team: There are certain questions that came up when reading some of the guy's statements:

- Nights 2 is developed in the US but Sega of Japan is the one forcing to move the game over to Wii ? Considering it "was originally developed as an Xbox 360 and Playstation 3 title" - how would you control the game without Wiimote ? (I never played it but the point is that I doubt it was initially planned as a 360/PS3 game)
- Let's assume the game's done for 360 (and the guy claims he played it!), why would it be released for Wii only ? (instead of Wii and 360)
- If "according to Mr. Andac, [..] Sonic Team was kept external strictly as a sweatshop to milk the Sonic cashcow, assembly-line style", how come "Sega of Japan had intended NiGHTS: Journey of Dreams as a brief rest from the never-ending onslaught of Sonic game after Sonic game.", and previously allowed Sonic Team 1) not to release a Sonic game for half a decade 2) to release Nights, Burning Rangers, Ristar, ChuChu Rocket, and Phantasy Star Online; while 3) Sega of America and Europe published dozens of (mediocre at best) Sonic games they handed out to other developers, just like they do today with Bioware and Sonic Chronicles or whatever it's called ? My point being: I would like to know who forces whom to keep the annual Sonic ball rolling ?
- If Sega of America is not interested in pushing Sonic Team to keep the games coming while Japan keeps Sonic Team as their factory slaves (as the blog suggested), how come that Sonic Unleashed gets delayed in Japan, but not in the US ?


Just because the guy knew something about some upcoming Sonic game, doesn't turn his views into the new ten commandments. You rarely can smell your own shit on your knees, so I highly doubt any of this guy's interpretations, but I would be VERY interested in hearing more about the actual problems between Sonic Team, Sega of Japan and Sega of America.


The article mentions that this would be proof that "members of Sega’s staff are unhappy with the direction Sonic Team as a development studio has headed." - Well, I am here to say that I give a flying fart about Sonic nor Sonic Team, but I am VERY unhappy with the direction Sega as a company is headed.


"While it was easy to assume such, we now have confirmation of internal strife between Sonic Team and their parent subsidary, Sega of Japan. In relation, this goes a long way to explain the shortcomings of games produced by Sonic Team: They are forced to work on a franchise they no longer care about, and when they do get a chance to stretch their legs, it is under tight restrictions."

Okay, glad that one thing's out of the way, but I wonder how that explains the shortcomings of all the other games produced by Sega ? Seems to me they all are forced to work on franchises for a company they no longer care about.

[j_factor]

Yeah, the details on NiGHTS are a little shifty. It was originally for 360 and PS3 with no Wii version, with development far enough that there was at least a playable alpha. They were forced to move it to the Wii later on, but had to stick to the same release target. So they hurriedly threw it together for the Wii, on a limited budget. So why is NiGHTS for the Wii such a competent game technically? It's one of the better-looking games for the system. Also, I remember hearing rumors about a Wii NiGHTS long before it was announced, even back before Nintendo came out with the name Wii. Although I guess those rumors could've just been wrong.

Further, Iizuka gave this interview (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/20/tech/gamecore/main3527076.shtml):


GC: Having more "family friendly" games is certainly applaudable especially since the video game industry has been marred by those select few games that contain more adult content. Nintendo has been seen as the "family friendly" game console despite the emergence of "Manhunt 2," which is a game meant only for a mature audience. That said, what was the basis behind making this game solely for the Wii?

I-san: I thought the best platform match for the "NiGHTS" character was the Nintendo Wii. Partly because it’s marketed as a "family" entertainment console, but mainly because of its user-friendly design making games easy to pick up and play. I am also very excited about the online features that the system offers and I thought that it was the best fit for the title.

GC: Speaking of which, I've heard rumors that you originally wanted to have this on the XBOX 360 and PlayStation 3? Is that true and, if so, are we going to see a sku of "NJD" on either systems?

I-san: Initially, when I thought about the game concept of "NiGHTS: Journey of Dreams," I really didn’t consider what platform I wanted the game to run on. It wasn’t until I started the actual game design that I discovered that the Wii was the most appropriate platform because it had the right features to fit the game I was designing.

So it sounds like it was never for anything other than Wii. Of course, he could have been lying, I guess, but I trust Iizuka over some blogger.

[MrMatthews]

Uh...does Journey even have any online features?

[Christuserloeser]

Seems to have online multiplayer modes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nights:_Journey_of_Dreams#Multiplayer_mode

...but I think Iizuka was referring to the weather channel thing that probably resembles what they did in the original Nights with the calendar features.




I never knew about the drama surrounding the NiGHTS development.

I think the worst drama probably was to keep the release date (mid december 2007), I remember reading reviews claiming that the game would have been really good if they were allowed to finish it.


I don't understand why any publisher would risk to publish a bad and/or unfinished game just so it would be released on time for xmas... I mean no one on earth needs a bad or unfinished game. Not on xmas, nor any other time of the year, really.

[j_factor]

Uh...does Journey even have any online features?

Why yes it does! Aside from the weather channel features, it has a 2-player race mode that is playable online, as well as world rankings/leaderboards, and registered friends lists. The game has this "My Dream" area, which is similar to a Chao Garden (but different), and you can visit other people's dreams online (either friends or random people). You can also exchange gifts with your friends, and when they're online, you can "call" them to invite them over to your dream.

[cj iwakura]

The biggest let down of Wii Nights for me was the lack of a Christmas mode. Talk about ignoring tradition.

It even has the calendar feature going for it, I think.


As for the 360, I think it could've handled just fine with the dual analog sticks. I've never tried the remote 'pointer' scheme. I just use the nunchuk/remote combo.

Still, it does look really good for a Wii game, and there are some inventive levels. It probably would've been amazing given a few more months of work(and a less childish story).


Just because the guy knew something about some upcoming Sonic game, doesn't turn his views into the new ten commandments. You rarely can smell your own shit on your knees, so I highly doubt any of this guy's interpretations, but I would be VERY interested in hearing more about the actual problems between Sonic Team, Sega of Japan and Sega of America.

The stories about how much they were at odds during the Genesis and Saturn eras makes me sad.

[Christuserloeser]

Sega itself is just one sad story.



- but yeah, there's some serious digging left to do. Next to the Dreamcast cancellation, the Sonic Team vs Sega vs Sega days are among the most interesting things in the history of the company, but so little is know as to what might have happened. Would be interesting to hear the Japanese side of the story as well for a change.

[TheEdge]

Sega itself is just one sad story.



- but yeah, there's some serious digging left to do. Next to the Dreamcast cancellation, the Sonic Team vs Sega vs Sega days are among the most interesting things in the history of the company, but so little is know as to what might have happened. Would be interesting to hear the Japanese side of the story as well for a change.

Its almost like Sega has no central controls. Sega reminds me of a hydra, multiple heads all attacking each other instead focusing at the job at hand.

Must suck to work for them.

[Elusive]

Its almost like Sega has no central controls. Sega reminds me of a hydra, multiple heads all attacking each other instead focusing at the job at hand.

Must suck to work for them.

No, it means it's the biggest videogame publishing house inside of Japan with many, many divisions offering many, many different products. Sonic Team, for example, doesn't have anything to do with the branded MP3 player we all oohed and aahed over a month or so ago. Internal politics is a fact of corporate life, and fucks everyone over in the long run.

About the article: so it turns out that working for video game companies isn’t the number-one job every thirteen-year-old dreams it to be. I’m shocked - shocked! Some guy working in a busy office daring to complain about his job on the Internet!…

And, as usual with SEGA fan-blogs, this automatically ‘explains’ everything bad to come out of Sega since the author’s balls dropped. It turns out NiGHTS: Journey of Dreams was a crossplatform 360/PS3 title - hey, that’d be interesting! Why move? Were there any cloak-and-dagger ‘incentives’? Company rivalries? Going where the moolah is, etc. etc. Shall we discuss this? Debate in the comments, please, we’ll make a feature of the best arguments later!

Nooo. Instead, this once more turns into the author sobbing about how dreadful conditions at Sonic Team are and how nothing's 16-bit and 2D any more. Poor Sonic Team, having to produce videogames for ten-year-old Japanese schoolchildren! SEGA is dead, the magic is gone, dogs and cats are living together, mass hysteria roolz! It can't be that the company's internal politics suck, that would be too ordinary! No, it must be some kind of SECRET CONSPIRACY - the stuff Sonic Team didn't want you to know about!


VIDEOGAMERS *waves fists in air*

[Christuserloeser]

...and how nothing's 16-bit and 2D any more.

Well....yeah!, sob sob ;)

[j_factor]

Sega itself is just one sad story.

You're just one sad story. :mad:

[Christuserloeser]

It's exaggerated of course, but that's how I feel about it in a nutshell.

Sure there were good times, but it's a freakin' drama mostly.





Shall we discuss this? Debate in the comments, please, we’ll make a feature of the best arguments later!

Nooo. Instead, this once more turns into the author...


...presenting the given information as written in stone, and cutting any possible debate by claiming that his "detective work" and interpretation of the results reveal the ultimate super secret truth behind all things.

That of course is even sadder than Sega's story.



- But the story goes on! Discover how the truth is hidden from you, the reader, by the media:

http://www.tssznews.com/2009/01/07/andac-blog-story-discussion-halted-on-sfghq/

Don't forget to grab your popcorn.

[j_factor]

It's exaggerated of course, but that's how I feel about it in a nutshell.

Sure there were good times, but it's a freakin' drama mostly.

I was just kidding. That's some American humor for you. Whenever someone says "(entity) is (negative term)", you reply with "you're (negative term)". Or "your mom" or "your face". Depending on the context.

[TheEdge]

I think its slightly entertaining if you think about it. Its like a soap opera :)


I was just kidding. That's some American humor for you. Whenever someone says "(entity) is (negative term)", you reply with "you're (negative term)". Or "your mom" or "your face". Depending on the context.

Guess I am not the only one who doesn't appreciate your humor.

[j_factor]

Guess I am not the only one who doesn't appreciate your humor.

Somehow I doubt you appreciate any humor.

[Timstuff]

Sega should just let the friggin' Sonic Rush team develop a console game from the ground up, and stay out of their way. They actually understand what makes a good Sonic game, unlike Sonic Team who only seems to understand "Hmm... Let's just make Sonic run so fast that the player can't even tell what the crap they are doing!" Sonic Team is dead.

[jesus.arnold]

This reminds me of an article I read about Core, the higher ups kept ordering them to make more and more Tomb Raider games one after the other and they kept telling them they had used up all their ideas after the first 2 games, but nobody would listen and just kept forcing them along until everyone on the team utterley despised tomb raider and Lara Croft, they said they had loads of ideas for other games on the drawing boards but were never allowed to start making them.

[MrMatthews]

Somehow I doubt you appreciate any humor.


YOUR MOM somehow doubts that he appreciates any humor.

That's a bad example, but it's somehow funnier when the "burn" isn't insulting in the least.

"It's a nice day!"

"YOUR MOM is a nice day"

And exchanging such witticisms with a sibling? Comedy gold!

[TheEdge]

Its not surprising, the corporate structure is intellectually Strangling in the extreme. All they care about is profits which is fine until they begin to become less and less creative as time goes on. After that they become so rigid that they have trouble surviving. Tomb Raider and Sonic are perfect examples of how narrow minded some corporate leaders are, they never think ahead more than a few months

[Elusive]

Sega should just let the friggin' Sonic Rush team develop a console game from the ground up, and stay out of their way. They actually understand what makes a good Sonic game, unlike Sonic Team who only seems to understand "Hmm... Let's just make Sonic run so fast that the player can't even tell what the crap they are doing!" Sonic Team is dead.

Sonic Unleashed takes a ton of inspiration from the Sonic Rush games; point A to point B races, boss battles on a looping track, QTE points that give you a speed/boost bonus if you get the buttons right, etc etc.

Then someone complains about... *shakes 8-ball* ...the voice acting, and it's back to square one. SEGA IS DEAD, and so on.


...presenting the given information as written in stone, and cutting any possible debate by claiming that his "detective work" and interpretation of the results reveal the ultimate super secret truth behind all things.

I love how the Sega-16 interviews let the interviewee speak for themselves, and leave it to the reader to draw their own conclusions. Give an army of creepy manchildren and bored thirteen-year-olds a 'mystery' that is in dire need of solving (. . .), and you'll end up convinced that Sonic the Hedgehog was originally going to be a top-down shooter set in the Korean War or something.


...it’s completely another matter to arbitrarily close a topic in order to fend off tense discussion that hasn’t occurred, and may not occur–prompting the possibility that Slingerland may be using his power within the Sonic community and its forums to an extreme...

it melts my brain that someone, somewhere, typed this out, and meant every single word.

'Slingerland may be using his power within the Sonic community and its forums to an extreme'. sonic fandom. it ... it rocks.

[j_factor]

This reminds me of an article I read about Core, the higher ups kept ordering them to make more and more Tomb Raider games one after the other and they kept telling them they had used up all their ideas after the first 2 games, but nobody would listen and just kept forcing them along until everyone on the team utterley despised tomb raider and Lara Croft, they said they had loads of ideas for other games on the drawing boards but were never allowed to start making them.

Yeah, and now Core is dead because of it. Fuck you, Eidos.


YOUR MOM somehow doubts that he appreciates any humor.

That's a bad example, but it's somehow funnier when the "burn" isn't insulting in the least.

"It's a nice day!"

"YOUR MOM is a nice day"

And exchanging such witticisms with a sibling? Comedy gold!

Your face is comedy gold!

[Phantar]

Maybe that's old news for most around here, but I just heard of that one in a list of upcoming Wii-releases at Gamasutra:


Sonic and the Black Knight
Release Date: March 1st
Developer: Sonic Team
Publisher: Sega

Sonic and friends are transported to Camelot, where they'll take on a possessed King Arthur who's ruling his kingdom as the tyrannical Black Knight. The blue hedgehog can help out villagers to increase their "knight ranking" and earn special items.

Similar to Sonic and the Secret Rings, players will speed through 3D stages using the Nunchuk's analog stick, but they'll need to learn the game's new swordfighting system to defeat certain enemies, too -- they can slash, thrust, parry and perform other maneuvers with Sonic's talking sword.

JESUS MUTHERF*CKIN' CHRIST!!!!!!!!! Are they really serious with that?

I mean, come on, this is ridiculous!!!! SONIC'S TALKING SWORD??? A POSSESSED KING ARTHUR??? RULING AS THE BLACK KNIGHT???

I mean, I'm sorry, using a talking sword (moving the Wii-controller Sword-like while a voice comes out of its speakers) may be kinda cool, but IT'S... NOT... SONIC!!!

Sorry, I'll be off for a while... I'll have to lock myself in the closet and scream at the top of my lungs...

[Tanegashima]

Man, here I am, comforted by my lovely Genesis. My blood pressure remains steady, life is good.

time for a rhetorical conversation:

What's that, Sonic 3? Could I play you and your predecessors until the end of time? Of COURSE!

Will I ever need another Sonic game to replace you? No? That's right!

Do I have impossibly high expectations about a franchise that has been on the market for nearly two decades is supposed to maintain the exact quality, specifications and everything else expect and want it to? OF COURSE!

Why aren't you 2D, silent and all about rings, emeralds and Robotnik anymore Sonic?

...most people don't want simple games, they want voice acting and a tacked on story line...

oh...well you suck then, I won't buy your games anymore, but I sure wish you would go back to how you used to be and I'm going to be furious that you've changed.

Well, why aren't you angry that say the Mustang doesn't look like it did in the 1960s?

...well times have changed, cars need to progress, the 60's one is a classic...

...So aren't my first 3/4 games classics? Couldn't you just stick with them and not bother with new ones? Buy that 60's mustang, stick with the classic.

NO! I WANT CLASSIC, BUT I WANT IMPROVEMENTS, BUT NOT TOO MANY. I DON'T KNOW WHAT I WANT, BUT I'M NOT HAPPY WITH WHAT WAS ALREADY GOOD, I WANT AN ENDLESS STREAM OF SATISFACTION WITH NO SACRIFICES OR CHANGES!!

http://www.tuningstyling.net/forum/style_emoticons/default/suicide.gif

I understand passion, but its a damn game. Don't buy it, problem solved. I simply live in a world where the Genesis never died and Sonic never went beyond '& Knuckles' and for me, since it's still 1994 in Hedgehog years I will never be angry.

[Phantar]

well, you got a point, but (at least in my case) it has something to do with childhood memories...

Did you grow fond of the 1960's Ford Mustang when you were 10 years old? I dare to say no. The way you appreciate things changes when you are a kid, an adolescent, or a grownup.

When I was 12 I was both very fond of Sonic AND of the Arthurian Legends. Back then, when I'd have heard of a game like "Sonic and the Black Knight"... well, to be honest, maybe I'd have thought "Wow, that's, like, totally awesome!!! Like Peanut und butter meeting for the first time!". That's what the kid in me feels. And the grownup looks at the screenshots, the gameplay, the concept and says - "forget it, kid... you won't get what you wish for!"

So, in my case it's the disappointment of an inner child throwing a hissy fit while a disillusioned adult is standing nearby slowly shaking his head.

I'd probably suck as a father, but oh well...

[MrMatthews]

Man, here I am, comforted by my lovely Genesis. My blood pressure remains steady, life is good.

time for a rhetorical conversation:

What's that, Sonic 3? Could I play you and your predecessors until the end of time? Of COURSE!

Will I ever need another Sonic game to replace you? No? That's right!

Do I have impossibly high expectations about a franchise that has been on the market for nearly two decades is supposed to maintain the exact quality, specifications and everything else expect and want it to? OF COURSE!

Why aren't you 2D, silent and all about rings, emeralds and Robotnik anymore Sonic?

...most people don't want simple games, they want voice acting and a tacked on story line...

oh...well you suck then, I won't buy your games anymore, but I sure wish you would go back to how you used to be and I'm going to be furious that you've changed.

Well, why aren't you angry that say the Mustang doesn't look like it did in the 1960s?

...well times have changed, cars need to progress, the 60's one is a classic...

...So aren't my first 3/4 games classics? Couldn't you just stick with them and not bother with new ones? Buy that 60's mustang, stick with the classic.

NO! I WANT CLASSIC, BUT I WANT IMPROVEMENTS, BUT NOT TOO MANY. I DON'T KNOW WHAT I WANT, BUT I'M NOT HAPPY WITH WHAT WAS ALREADY GOOD, I WANT AN ENDLESS STREAM OF SATISFACTION WITH NO SACRIFICES OR CHANGES!!

http://www.tuningstyling.net/forum/style_emoticons/default/suicide.gif

I understand passion, but its a damn game. Don't buy it, problem solved. I simply live in a world where the Genesis never died and Sonic never went beyond '& Knuckles' and for me, since it's still 1994 in Hedgehog years I will never be angry.

LOL, Tanegashima. LOL.

This reminds me of some of the reactions I remember when Will Smith came out with that silly "Willenium" song.

"OMG!! Rock the Casbah was my FAVORITE song and Will Smith RUINED it!".

Well, hang on, there: are you saying that every Clash album has now been magically and retroactively updated with this new song? No? You mean you can still whip out the old album and listen to the song the way it was originally recorded?

Oh. Just checking.

[Tanegashima]

Exactly. Sega has changed, 16 bit games aren't being made anymore. I can name a million (well maybe not a MILLION) franchises that have sucked for years and no one else seems as passionate.

[MrMatthews]

What it all boils down to is that there is no consistency with what the gaming community wants. I guarantee that if Sega had continued to release Sonic games that used the same formula as Sonic 1 through Knuckles, everyone would be bitching about that, too.

Mega Man is a perfect example. How many people were absolutely thrilled by the fact that Mega Man 6 was almost identical to the past five games (more or less)? Since then the series has gone off in different directions with varying degrees of success, which is probably the main reason why Mega Man 9 was so "fresh." Had this game been released as Mega Man 7 (instead of the actual Mega Man 7), I think people would have had a different reaction entirely.

When a franchise changes too much, people bitch and moan about how it's not how it used to be. If a series remains the same, people complain about stagnancy and the lack of innovation. Developers really can't win, and it's obvious through many of their interviews (the NOA president whats-his-name comes to mind) that they are getting pretty fed up with it.

[j_factor]

What it all boils down to is that there is no consistency with what the gaming community wants. I guarantee that if Sega had continued to release Sonic games that used the same formula as Sonic 1 through Knuckles, everyone would be bitching about that, too.

Mega Man is a perfect example. How many people were absolutely thrilled by the fact that Mega Man 6 was almost identical to the past five games (more or less)? Since then the series has gone off in different directions with varying degrees of success, which is probably the main reason why Mega Man 9 was so "fresh." Had this game been released as Mega Man 7 (instead of the actual Mega Man 7), I think people would have had a different reaction entirely.

When a franchise changes too much, people bitch and moan about how it's not how it used to be. If a series remains the same, people complain about stagnancy and the lack of innovation. Developers really can't win, and it's obvious through many of their interviews (the NOA president whats-his-name comes to mind) that they are getting pretty fed up with it.

People always defend the developers with this argument, but I think it's just apologism. There's releasing a new Sonic that feels like Sonic & Knuckles Part 2, there's Sonic & the Black Knight, and there's miles and miles of space in between. Nobody's saying there should be no changes. "Change nothing" and "throw Sonic into King Arthur's court" are not the only two options.

And you know what? Having "themed" Sonic games isn't even a bad concept. Secret Rings wasn't great, but it wasn't horrible (and its misgivings were purely in the execution; the concept was fine). A medieval Sonic game could be good. But giving him a sword? Swordfighting is completely antithetical to the Sonic series' core gameplay on a very basic level. They already tried gunplay with Shadow the Hedgehog, and it was widely panned. TAKE THE HINT: HEDGEHOGS DON'T NEED WEAPONS. Think about it, why does Sonic need to hit anything with a sword if he can just spindash/spinjump at it? He can spin and keep moving, whereas it sounds like these sword moves will involve stopping to fight some baddies, then running again, then stopping for another sword section, etc. Why break up the gameplay? Why would anyone want to slow down a Sonic game?

[Christuserloeser]

Mega Man is a perfect example.


No it isn't. Don't you dare to insult Capcom by comparing them to Sega! :p ;)


Seriously, with Megaman 9 they went back to how the NES games looked and played, after quite a few 2D Megaman games in 16/32-bit look. Translating this concept to Sonic would mean many 2D Sonic games on Saturn [and Dreamcast], all of them with graphics that would blow away everything on NeoGeo.

Instead of going another step further, the latest Sonic game on Wii/Dreamcast 2 then would look exactly like it was running on a Mega Drive.

[MrMatthews]

No it isn't. Don't you dare to insult Capcom by comparing them to Sega! :p ;)


Seriously, with Megaman 9 they went back to how the NES games looked and played, after quite a few 2D Megaman games in 16/32-bit look. Translating this concept to Sonic would mean many 2D Sonic games on Saturn [and Dreamcast], all of them with graphics that would blow away everything on NeoGeo.

Instead of going another step further, the latest Sonic game on Wii/Dreamcast 2 then would look exactly like it was running on a Mega Drive.


First and foremost, Capcom is my favorite developer ever. More than Sega and Nintendo combined, maybe.

I offered the Mega Man example because that's a series (well, three series, I suppose) that remained true to it's original vision and was eventually received with, "Are we doing this again? Sigh . . ."

I think that, had Sonic Team continued to produce games for the Saturn and Dreamcast that offered little more than a graphical update to the tried-and-true Sonic formula (much as what Capcom did with the Mega Man and Mega Man X series), people would have the same reaction.