32x success if the Saturn was delayed [Archive]

j_factor

12-29-2005, 09:23 PM

It would've been more successful than it was, but it would've hurt Saturn more.

The bottom line IMO is that 32x should just never have been made. It wasn't powerful enough to seriously contend with Playstation and Saturn, and didn't really offer any incentive to own one. I still don't see any "point" to 32x; there was no underlying necessity for its existence. Sega CD allows for the CD-ROM format; Saturn was a next-gen console. 32x did... what exactly?

It hurt everything else too -- Genesis had tons of new, exciting games in 1994 and could clearly have held its own, but the premise of 32x itself made that seem not so. So while Nintendo was showing off their new SNES games, Sega gave the appearance of having to resort to add-on hardware to boost a flagging console. Anyone who takes a good look at the Genesis lineup of 1994 can see that this is clearly not the case, and they were still getting new tricks out of the stock hardware, but 32x made it seem that way. Also, Sega marketing's money and energy being spent on 32x meant a big loss for Genesis promotion -- not to mention practically flushing Sega CD down the toilet. 32x is thee root cause of SNES overtaking Genesis in sales in 1994 in the US.

1994 should've been a year for Sega to concentrate on promoting what they had -- to maintain their position as having the #1 console, give Sega CD a boost, make Game Gear more of a close contender with Game Boy, and promote their arcade games. If Sega of America was itching so bad to release new hardware, they should've come out with a Game Gear Mini to compete with Game Boy Pocket.

Chris Marsh

12-30-2005, 10:09 AM

The system increased the amount of colors that you could put on the screen at once. This is key to the Sega CD/32X combos, which have better video quality. Compare the two Corpse Killer games and see that the 32X version is improved in video quality by quite a bit. I have seen screenshots of Cosmic Carnage and it has some of the most gratuitous use of color I have ever seen in a video game. There are so many colors that it can give you a headache.

David J.

12-30-2005, 11:38 AM

...too bad Cosmic Carnage is a really stinky game.

j_factor

12-30-2005, 03:16 PM

The system increased the amount of colors that you could put on the screen at once. This is key to the Sega CD/32X combos, which have better video quality.

Yeah, but... who cares?

ary incorparated

12-30-2005, 03:48 PM

This is a scary one,a almost exact copy of Sega modle 1 vs a psx that is like almost twice as strong,maybe 32x would do better,because it has its the support of the genesis fame plus it could do a bit good for genesis,If 32x replaced the saturn then maybe they also released the Sega nemesis.or maybe even one with cd backup or even better.Probably sega didnt see much in 32x or it failed because of the arguing between sega america and sega Japan.sega didnt watch the console,but see it fail very fast,since there where to less released when it was coming out,to many people had ordered the 32x and there wherent much of them and there where to many complaints about that it didnt work good,maybe at bit to much stress for sega soon folowed with the console.and since they already had the saturn in production so didnt see the use of further produce with the genesis 32x.I think maybe it could have been better allot.Saturn was produced expencive because sony had cheap hardware(components) and doubled the sega model 1 board.sega lost their name a bit because they werent advertising any more,the sega saturn was miscalculated in comparisment with the psx so they doubbled things too, like they putted in a Dual hitachi processor etc.saturn was now on par with psx and in some terms better.Saturn costed to much money and was made to beat the psx,finnally people chose for PSX because it already had a uge library of games,the problem with saturn was that they needed to adducate people very much in a very small time,the problem with saturn was that people,employees needed to know how the whole saturn works and wath the hardware is capable of etc.For psx it was simpeler for employees and developers(they could put the software just on a c C:center,and it worked great)thats why pirrating was so simple on psx.For the saturn it was hard to make games for the system,developes needed to know a bit about infamous hardware,soon enough they notice how to accomplish that but sony was quicker,and it was no probe for developers to make games for it,Sony also had Silicone graphics as a compeny that supported sony full,dont know it really but a only know the name.Anyway the 32x would have done better because it was cheaper it was capable to take the genesis to a other level and sega probably would have released a backwards compatible genesis,it would have take the genesis to a higher level to maby it could show that it could beat the snes with no probe couse of supremmesy. ,but soon it would be dated becuase the psx clearly outdoes the genesis 32x,I think if sega had done the addvertising and improve it tecnicall to make it stronger and better working they still could have a name maby,since shenmue was theyre biggest deal in money they where going broke thanx to the ill fated DC and flops.Maby the sega 32x could have saved money for sega,at least a bit.It would have held for what it is,sega needed to advertise than.IM happy with the saturn tough,Sore many games where sticked in japan but still its one of my faforites couse of Radiant silvergun and Panzer dragoon saga,Nights etc.I dont know every thing for sure please let me know if some things arent correct,this is all ive read about the background story,In battle between the consoles. :D

Melf

12-30-2005, 10:21 PM

j_factor

12-31-2005, 05:50 AM

If Sega of America was itching so bad to release new hardware, they should've come out with a Game Gear Mini to compete with Game Boy Pocket.

Word. I wonder why Sega never once tried to improve the GG's hardware (make it more compact, better battery life). There were some decent games, and I'm sure they could have improved it had they tried.

I agree. Game Gear had the games, the hardware, and the presence in the US and Europe to have been more competitive than it was. Game Gear had a decent market share for a couple years, but when Game Boy Pocket came out it took a big blow.

Problem was, Nakayama's bone-headed decision to cancel everything in '95 to focus on the Saturn basically made all that potential die a quick death. The 32X should never have been made, but they should have let the Genesis live until it trickled off by itself.

Ugh, tell me about it. Tom Kalinske is reported to have said in 1995 that "the 16-bit market will still be very strong for a good two years". Nintendo supported NES until 1994; Sega should've had a similar approach with Genesis.

ary incorparated

12-31-2005, 01:06 PM

hhmm,Yes gamegaer is exelent,Damn a better replica of the master system,It was to expensive i think but here in the Dutch people loved it for shure,but also tought it was way to expensive.I love the console for its inovatifity,gamegear tv tuner etc master,also sonic triple troubel.I even have straat fighter 2 for mastersystem,Hoped they would bring it for the Gamegear but didnt.gamegear was just even a little bit better then mastersystem.I played my megadrive games on the gamegear with the tv tuner.Gamegear rulezz ,mastersystem is oke BUT sega Rulled still they do but a bit lesser than they used to.I dont care what sega it is they all have potential for me.

highlandcattle

05-02-2006, 12:59 PM

I think the 32X could have been a succes if the games would have been there. I mean if Darkstalkers and AvsP and perhaps Outrunners and stuff like that would have been made, and not only gameswise. the sound chip should really have been better. I also think that all those crap games killed it .I've sega had simply stuck with arcade ports and simply refuse all those bad games. It would have been much better for them. Don't forget that in europe the master system still had releases in 1994. The mega drive wasn't looked at as being outdated at all with us kids. They should've held back the 32x for at least another year

Demonic Weasel

05-02-2006, 09:50 PM

Obviously

05-02-2006, 11:19 PM

The 32X was an attempt to get a last gasp of breath out of the Genesis/Mega Drive when Sega should've just let it fade out and support their next system. Sega really destroyed its reputation and even today the 32X is used as joke material when people make fun of Sega in the same way the Virtual Boy is for Nintendo.

GeckoYamori

05-03-2006, 05:48 AM

Many of the top SNES titles relied on the Super FX and other chips to bypass hardware limitations. Had Sega taken this approach (Apart from Virtua Racing) instead of the 32x maybe they would have fared better.

I really don't like the idea of expensive built-in chips taking game prices to astronomical levels, but from a business perspective it seemed to work pretty good.

16bitter

05-03-2006, 04:30 PM

The 32X was a mistake. It practically killed the Sega CD, it damaged the Genesis's reputation, it was the beginning of the Saturn's pre-mature death, and it never had good games on it anyway. I agree about the gamegear, that's where Sega's effort should have gone. If they'd translated more for the Gamegear and fixed some of it's problems it could've been strong, the Genesis didn't need much help at all and if they stopped releasing FMV games on the Sega CD then that could've held in there.

The Saturn should've been the next console and if it wasn't for the 32X there may have been a chance of really decent sales. It would even have been able to fight against the PSX and hold its own as it deserved.

The 32X was an American venture. So why don't we place as much blame on SOA as we do on SOJ in regards to Sega's fall in the 32-bit war?

I'm as big a critic of the Japanese side as anybody. But whereas we hear about SOJ focusing on too little (the Saturn) at the expense of their 16-bit hardware in the States, the fact is that SOA did way too much.

If they wanted to keep the Genesis business alive then that console should have been the focus along with Saturn.

highlandcattle

05-03-2006, 06:43 PM

But I thought Soa didn't know about the saturn until it was announced surely. It tells something about sega's internal communication

redrum666

05-03-2006, 06:48 PM

I have seen screenshots of Cosmic Carnage and it has some of the most gratuitous use of color I have ever seen in a video game. There are so many colors that it can give you a headache.

no it was not the colors that can give you a headache its the gameplay :mad: :yuck:

16bitter

05-04-2006, 10:35 AM

But I thought Soa didn't know about the saturn until it was announced surely. It tells something about sega's internal communication

No. I've heard that Kalinske had a counter-proposal to that of the Japanese on what the Saturn's innards would be. His side was shot down and it's known that the American portion of Sega hated the Saturn's design, feeling that it would be a failure in the market. One of their responses was the stop-gap measure of the 32X.

The company was a mess in Japan, but the 32X is a mess that was created by Americans for Americans.

highlandcattle

05-04-2006, 12:37 PM

A mess that give me some pleasure "shame"

Melf

05-04-2006, 05:39 PM

No. I've heard that Kalinske had a counter-proposal to that of the Japanese on what the Saturn's innards would be. His side was shot down and it's known that the American portion of Sega hated the Saturn's design, feeling that it would be a failure in the market. One of their responses was the stop-gap measure of the 32X.

The company was a mess in Japan, but the 32X is a mess that was created by Americans for Americans.
This is untrue, actually. The project that evolved into the 32X was initially created by SOJ as a whole new console. It was going to be called the Genesis two and be basically the same thing as the regular Genesis, but with a higher color palate and a lower cost. SOA was actually underwhelmed by what they saw and their head oh R&D, Joe Miller, argued against it. He said they should instead go the add-on route (no sense in losing all those Genesis consoles already out there) and make it more powerful. The result was the current 32X. Japan was still going to release the Saturn regardless of what America did.

So basically, Japan was going to hit us with another console before the Genesis anyway, but they wanted was really not worth the time. At least the 32X had potential. SOA was stuck choosing the lesser of two evils between Japan's Genesis 2 and the 32X. They had no choice, because they were going to be forced to release something before the Saturn. What else could they have done?

Demonic Weasel

05-04-2006, 05:57 PM

In the end I didn't like the 32X. It didn't have anything good about it, I didn't like the games, and most dammning I was extremely fond of the Saturn, and the 32X was the first thing that started its demise.

geekbait111

05-04-2006, 10:59 PM

If Sega worked on the design on the Saturn longer and pushed its release back till 1996 would that 32x have been more succesful? Would Sega not have gotten a black eye over it? or would gamers still have been confused with two add-ons?

okeydokey, I'll tell you my opinion I guess?

They should have never thought of the saturn idea... well maybe.

They should have made a console: 3 in one: genesis, CD, and 32X (compatible with master system thing)

You know those 32X CD stuff, they probably should have made those instead of the saturn games... what's the difference between them?

It would be cheap, they made a CDX, combine it with a 32X, meaning it's fairly cheap, pretty compact, and a huge library. and they might wanna make the new 32X CD games a bit better quality (PSone quality) and only compatible with the "new sega saturn"

so that would make people tempted to buy it, a cheaper idea (not making too new technology), and ... better

that's just my idea that I think sega may have prevailed and maybe sega would still be making systems... meow!!!

j_factor

05-05-2006, 03:01 AM

The problem is, 32x CD is significantly inferior to Saturn in terms of hardware (much weaker/slower SH-2's, single speed CD-ROM drive, etc.), and the retail cost was at least as high as a Saturn or PSX.

16bitter

05-05-2006, 07:54 AM

This is untrue, actually. The project that evolved into the 32X was initially created by SOJ as a whole new console. It was going to be called the Genesis two and be basically the same thing as the regular Genesis, but with a higher color palate and a lower cost. SOA was actually underwhelmed by what they saw and their head oh R&D, Joe Miller, argued against it. He said they should instead go the add-on route (no sense in losing all those Genesis consoles already out there) and make it more powerful. The result was the current 32X. Japan was still going to release the Saturn regardless of what America did.

So basically, Japan was going to hit us with another console before the Genesis anyway, but they wanted was really not worth the time. At least the 32X had potential. SOA was stuck choosing the lesser of two evils between Japan's Genesis 2 and the 32X. They had no choice, because they were going to be forced to release something before the Saturn. What else could they have done?

I just looked this up, and you're right. The SOA side made the best of yet another Japanese clusterfuck with the 32X.

More than ever before, it makes me wonder what Sega would look like today if Kalinske and his crew had the ultimate say over the company instead of the group of psychotic jokers that were running things.

One thing that confuses me -- though they had no choice, regardless, as far as 32X development and release -- is that the story seems contradictory insofar as Kalinske knowing enough about the Saturn project to offer a counter-proposal in late 93, only for the American side to later be described as "unaware" of the fact that SOJ was pushing forward with that same project. How can this be?

Zebbe

05-05-2006, 08:36 AM

They should never have made the 32X (still buying one to get the few gems it has). Instead they should have continued the support for the Mega Drive and waited with the Saturn, giving it backwardscompatibility with the Mega CD and the Mega Drive.

16bitter

05-05-2006, 03:47 PM

This rather sums it all up:

Surprisingly enough, Nakayama was the one who first broached the subject at this meeting. As such, it is he and not Sega of America's Joe Miller who should be given credit as being "the father of the 32X." Miller remembers this meeting well.

"Quite simply, Nakayama-san had directed the company to design and produce a cartridge-based 32-bit platform and bring it to market before the Christmas selling season of 1994. This was a lengthy, somewhat heated meeting - but in the end there was no question that Sega of Japan (in the form of a classic Nakayama mandate) had determined that this was what we were going to do. It was [now] up to the senior team to figure out and go execute. The difference, this time, was that Sega of Japan was actually inviting Sega of America into the process - instead of creating new platforms in a vacuum and throwing them over the ocean at us when it was too late to have meaningful input .... Sega of Japan was completely committed and was [ready to] mobilize whatever internal resources were require to finish the design and produce it in quantity for Christmas."

As first presented by Hideki Sato and his team of engineers, the original concept for Mars was little more than a Genesis with an extra 32-bit processor (a Hitachi SH-1, according to some reports) and an expanded color palette (128 out of 512 possible colors on screen). Joe Miller, who was in fact chief technical wizard at Sega of America, was appalled at the suggestion. "That is a horrible idea," he told them. "If all you're going to do is enhance the system, you should make an add-on. If it's a new system with legitimate software, great. But if the only thing it does is double the colors ...." There was some grumbling about this, but in the end Sega of Japan conceeded the point. They had several other hardware projects in the works, so this one was to be left up to the Americans. Mars was to be Sega of America's baby, although senior management staff from Sega of Japan would be present and oversee it through to production. By the time all was said and done that could be accomplished at that meeting, Nakayama was so excited at the prospect of Project Mars that he wanted its "core senior design team" to leave CES before it had even started and get started working on the new system right away. Miller, Sato, and the rest wound up attending the rest of the show, but went ahead and began the process during a series of late night meetings in Miller's hotel room over the next four days.

[...]

Sega of Japan remained firm in its conviction that CD-ROM games would be the wave of the future [16bitter - if they were so form in that conviction, where did the 32X come from?], and the record shows that they fought Sega of America almost every step of the way in developing, releasing, supporting, and promoting the 32X. They all but refused to assist with the system, and only a scant handful of 32X titles ever came from the land of the Rising Sun.

:rofl:

So the Japanese insist on the machine's creation and then immediately balk at giving it any support after (during?) its release.

Sega of Japan was a great comic talent -- too bad it was the butt of all its own jokes. And thus is a joke.

Obviously

05-05-2006, 08:39 PM

I wish SoJ would've wisened up with the Dreamcast but it wasn't meant to be.

Joe Redifer

05-05-2006, 08:46 PM

They almost got it right. Things that were wrong with the Dreamcast in my opinion were: The godawful controller with fewer buttons (fortunately someone made a Saturn adaptor), the extreme ease in playing and burning pirated games (why did Sega give the DC CD-R ability?), extremely loud laser movement, etc. I don't think any one of those things killed the DC, they were just what was wrong with it in my opinion. I really hated that controller and the VMU's were useless (I didn't play sports games).

GeckoYamori

05-05-2006, 10:34 PM

the extreme ease in playing and burning pirated games (why did Sega give the DC CD-R ability?)

This is also what's keeping the damn thing alive.

Joe Redifer

05-06-2006, 02:16 AM

Through homebrew only, though. I haven't found much homebrew worth playing more than once-ish.

Melf

05-06-2006, 03:49 AM

I've been trying to contact Joe Miller and hopefully can get an interview with him. I'd love to ask him about the whole 32X thing.

Joe Redifer

05-06-2006, 05:39 AM

Did you look in the phone book? Maybe MySpace?:)

Obviously

05-06-2006, 09:17 AM

(why did Sega give the DC CD-R ability?)

They didn't think people would find a way to rip ISOs with their their "GD-ROM" formatl, boy where they wrong. A small number, about 1% of Dreamcasts produced at the end of its life span that do not support CD-Rs.

The Playstation 2 is just as bad but it's just that the average person had a CD-R drive and could burn Dreamcast games where as the average person did not have a DVD-R drive back then.

geekbait111

05-06-2006, 09:35 AM

This is also what's keeping the damn thing alive.
True... but this only kept people from buying games. And the system is OK at a profit but the games are were they make a HUGE profit. It costs about $1 (estimating) for a CD, some random money for the game (MUCH less than the system obviously), and at $50-$20 a CD, they are racking in el money (no hablar espanol!!!)!

So it's possible and probable that the dreamcast would have survived IF they had a different drive (and DVD instead of CD rom :D ) than they might be tied with the worst competetor currently: NINTENDO!!!! (or inbetween them and microsoft, but nowhere near Sony!)

And by now it's possible that SEGA may (by may I mean: non-likley) have fixed it's mistakes and make a new system... (very doubtfull)

GeckoYamori

05-06-2006, 10:18 AM

I doubt it, there has never really been room for more than 3 major competitors in the industry. The demographics get too split up, and some factions will just end up too small to support a system fully. If anything, Sega would enter a deeper relationship with Microsoft for their next system.

Obviously

05-07-2006, 10:53 AM

True... but this only kept people from buying games. And the system is OK at a profit but the games are were they make a HUGE profit. It costs about $1 (estimating) for a CD, some random money for the game (MUCH less than the system obviously), and at $50-$20 a CD, they are racking in el money (no hablar espanol!!!)!

So it's possible and probable that the dreamcast would have survived IF they had a different drive (and DVD instead of CD rom :D ) than they might be tied with the worst competetor currently: NINTENDO!!!! (or inbetween them and microsoft, but nowhere near Sony!)

And by now it's possible that SEGA may (by may I mean: non-likley) have fixed it's mistakes and make a new system... (very doubtfull)

They don't make as big a profit on games as you'd like to believe, at least not until the game sells a certain number of copies and becomes successful. You're not just paying for a game, you're paying for the development and advertising costs that covers everything from the technology used to make the game to the lunch break of one of the game's random programmers. Literally millions of dollars are sunk into the development of most AAA titles and that's why games cost what they do.

It's like the motion picture industry in that sense. A movie "bombs" when its release fails to cover the cost of production, "successful" when they break even and a "hit" when they make more than production costs. If anything we're already seeing certain games become more expensive as development becomes more complex.

Benjamin

06-10-2006, 02:41 AM

So it's possible and probable that the dreamcast would have survived IF they had a different drive (and DVD instead of CD rom :D ) than they might be tied with the worst competetor currently: NINTENDO!!!! (or inbetween them and microsoft, but nowhere near Sony!)

Dreamcast piracy wasn't as easy or immediate as people are making it out to be. The GD-ROM was a pretty nice anti-piracy measure, ruined with the Sega release of a bootable CD-ROM, which was hacked and exploited to create working CD-ROM copies of GD-ROM games. This was at least a year, maybe two after the initial US launch, and most accounts seem to show that piracy would not have been a major factor during the system's life if not for this slip up.

Sega Saturn x

06-19-2006, 11:58 PM

Problem was, Nakayama's bone-headed decision to cancel everything in '95 to focus on the Saturn basically made all that potential die a quick death
What's even more tragic is ever with the spotlight on the saturn they still did everything wrong. The 32X is a very real way is one of the major reason sega declined the way they did, had that brain fart never come out sega would only be better because of it.

16-bit pwnage

08-14-2006, 11:41 PM

Here's an idea of what Sega should have done with the 32-bit era...Ever hear about the Sega Neptune? It was going to be a console that combined the Genesis and the 32x into one machine minus all the bugs and crashing. My idea is that Sega should have taken this design, work with it in order to make the machine around as powerful as the Saturn was, and try to keep the 3D focus on arcade games, as well as a strong 2D library. This way Sega would sacrifice some funds by going with cartridge media over CD's but in return get a system that is fully compatible with your old Genesis library. Over time, the console could have matched the N64 in terms of power.

David J.

08-14-2006, 11:47 PM

Well, I recall the Neptune could have been used with a Sega CD, but the drive in the Sega CD was slow circa '94. I recall being amazed at the 4x CD-rom on my Grandpas computer at the time.

If devlopers didn't want to dick around with the 32X, what makes you think they'd still want to be devloping for legacy equipment?

Joe Redifer

08-14-2006, 11:51 PM

Ever hear about the Sega Neptune? It was going to be a console that combined the Genesis and the 32x into one machine minus all the bugs and crashing.
Bugs and crashing? I don't think I've had a hardware-related glitch with the separate systems other than the common "can't recognize the inserted cart" problem which is usually fixed by cleaning the cart.

MitsuruX

09-20-2006, 02:16 PM

As much as i like the idea of the 32x... I don't think there was much that could have been done differently to make it sucessful.

The time it was released was not good considering how fast the Dedicated 32-bit machines were comming.

If Sega had delayed the launch of the Saturn, they would quite possibly been in an even wores situation, because there would have been no way that the Gen/CD/32x combo unit could have competed with the PS1.

The best thing that Sega could have done would have been to not release the 32x, and instead concentrate on what it had (The Genesis/CD). And possibly figure out how to get the "Cart with a Chip" games at a lower cost. (Nintendo seemed to be able to sell Super FX games for a reasonable price).

Also the ability for the Saturn to ATLEAST play Sega Genesis/CD games would have been a bit of a boost for it (As long a there was not extra hardware involved).

....

Black_Tiger

10-05-2006, 03:31 PM

I think that it would've helped to get the Neptune out right away and at a decent price, especially if it came with a higher speed CD-ROM built-in and a killer CD app.

But the main thing, is they needed more great games. If the Saturn was delayed, this might've freed up at least Sega and perhaps some other big names to put out not only some good games, but some taylor made to take advantage of the 32X's strengths. Particularly 32X CD games.

The Virtua Fighter port is cool, but something original designed from the ground up for the 32X, involving 3D was needed.

The worst kind of marketing, is to let your console get flooded with substandard or worse games.

Roperious

10-13-2006, 12:41 AM

The problem with the third party support in regards to the 32x was based around a major blunder on Sega's part, yes even SOA.

Due to the fact that both the 32x and the Saturn both used essentially the same dual hitachi processors, they would both feature a very similar programing process for developers. The actual "plan" was for developers to get their hands on the 32x before the saturn launch so that they would be well adjusted to the new architecture for more competetive/comparative titles versus the "simple-as-pie" development kit for the playstation, (the nintendo 64 would be out much later and was not considered a threat at this point).

Unfortunatly the blunder was that the constant miscommunications between SOA and SOJ and the unexcusable errors in the application of their business model, forced Sega to release their development kits for both the Saturn and the 32x to developers at the same time!. Developers not being braindead picked the nextgen system, over a mere "upgrade", and I for one, don't blame them.

This is why we see a sudden shift of 3rd party support from the 32x to the saturn in late 1994 to mid 1995, this is why so many titles were scrapped for the 32x (ie: Alone in the Dark) and this is why we will never really bear witness to what the console was actually capable of (a surprising amount from my research).

So was the 32x a bad idea, in retrospect, probably. However, at the time, the advancements in the home console market were fairly spread out, and with the newfound stability that the 16-bit era brought to the market, came also an uncertaintly of where to go. The 32x was a viable product, allowing Genesis/Sega CD owners the ability to prolong their investments/libraries, considering the capabilites of the console and the 3rd party support Sega could have (and did for a time) generated would allow for a fairly sucessful (and profitable) venture for sega as a corporation.

Unfortunatly there were many other factors which led to the 32x failing so quickly, but these were the key events which are absolutly central to the outcome. :daze:

redrum666

10-28-2006, 04:19 PM

the saturn would have done a lot better had it been launch in september like sega had originaly plan by jumping the gun launching the saturn in May most stores did not get the saturn system to sell like Wal-Mart and most games for the saturn did not come out for it untill september the original launch date this gave sony time for them to fix the price on the PS1 (saturn was priced at $399 PS1 was priceed $299) if sega had waited it would have given the 32X a little more life and if sega had did what they originaly planed support both the saturn and 32X the 32x may have had a longer life

Utini

10-30-2006, 07:13 PM

If you ask me, Sega would have done much better not to release any add-ons for the Genesis/Megadrive.

If you look at the games produced for the Sega/Mega-CD and 32x, the quality of output was pretty abyssmal. Whereas the output on the Genesis/Megadrive remained fairly consistant and reasonably high.

Had Sega not been entrenched in internal strife, perhaps someone within the organisation would have had the vision to make the Saturn a much better machine than it later proved to be, and maybe, just maybe, consumers and developers would then have appreciated the Dreamcast for the outstanding bit of gaming kit it was, instead of handing the whole industry, part and parcel, to Sony.

Still, everything's easy with hindsight.

j_factor

10-31-2006, 02:10 AM

I don't think Sega CD was that bad.

I do think Sega CD, along with Turbo CD, served a good purpose in allowing developers to get their feet wet in the CD-ROM format. The lessons learned on those early CD-ROM systems helped make those Playstation and Saturn games what they were.

16-bit pwnage

10-31-2006, 01:31 PM

Good point, it's not so much that the comcept of CD-rom game media was bad it was more or less the whole FMV epidemic that gave Sega CD and Turbo CD a bit of a black eye. They were conceived in the multimedia revolution when the developers believed that FMV games could be a big seller, now they know better. Also the fact that Sega decided to make too many games that were basically enhanced ports of Genesis games, taking advantage of the soundtracks and larger colour palettes and adding load times to the games; flooded the market and made buyers question if the SCD was worth buying.

redrum666

10-31-2006, 04:26 PM

Good point, it's not so much that the comcept of CD-rom game media was bad it was more or less the whole FMV epidemic that gave Sega CD and Turbo CD a bit of a black eye.

what FMV games for Turbo cd are you talking about there is no FMV on Turbo cd all they have is games with still pic with voice overs:confused:

j_factor

11-01-2006, 03:34 AM

It Came From the Desert?

Joe Redifer

11-01-2006, 05:41 AM

Sherlock Holmes 1 and 2
John Madden Football had quite a bit of FMV (including full screen when you tried to play the disc on the old card).

redrum666

11-01-2006, 12:29 PM

im talking about games more like Sewer Shark, Tomcat Alley, Prize Fighter, or Midnight Raiders kind of FMV games

Psy

11-01-2006, 09:06 PM

j_factor

11-02-2006, 04:18 AM

SNES did so well in 1995 precisely due to the fact that it was well established, unlike 32x.

Elusive

11-02-2006, 03:30 PM

Good point, it's not so much that the comcept of CD-rom game media was bad it was more or less the whole FMV epidemic that gave Sega CD and Turbo CD a bit of a black eye. They were conceived in the multimedia revolution when the developers believed that FMV games could be a big seller, now they know better.

Yeah, but you have the benefit of hidsight here. In 199x FMV games and multimedia applications were the 'next big thing' - I could just as well say 2003-2004 was a dreadful year for gaming because of the endless generic World War 2-em-up clones that flooded the market.

What better way to show off CD-ROM capabilities than filling them with full-motion video, for example? You know, doing stuff that was impossible on a 24-megabit cartridge.

KnightWarrior

02-17-2007, 09:44 PM

Ok, I'm bring this back from the dead

You know in my view if the 32X was released in like '92 or 93..It would have a better chance. So it could compete with the Super NES, T16 & the Jag..The System is Better then the SNES. But Sega didn't comit I concider the 32X a Mini Arcade

TheGZeus

02-18-2007, 03:46 AM

It's honeestly just not that great of a system.
It's very complicated, requires alot of multithreading and delegating and there's neither hardware sprites nor 3D.
Mars would have had a chance, but if it was based on this tech it would have killed it.
Hard to get developers to program for something with everything in software when the SNES could do almost as much(albeit more slowly without coprocessors) with less programming.
If it has been a large color increase, perhaps additional transparency, well implemented sprite scaling, more RAM... That would have gone over well and garnered enough support.
However, that's not the way they went.
Anything the system could do that Sega could tell potential developers was "there are more colors available on screen, and 2 more sound channels that suck more. Anything else is up to you. We don't know what it can really do yet."

The fact it was another add-on was a big problem...

I honestly just don't see the system as it was released working(let alone being a success! OOOH!!).
Yeah, Sega was on the path of running a consumer electronics division like an arcade division.
It's what killed them in the end.