Throwing Money Down the Drain!

[TheEdge]

Why do people pay money for old school games on their PS3 / XBOX360 / Wii?

This is so silly to me. Yesterday when I got home from work I went over to my Dreamcast popped in my NesterDC disc and played MegaMan2 for hours.

How much did it cost for every single NES, SMS, Genesis, TurboGrafx, SNES game ever created?

$14.99

Why did it cost $14.99? Cause thats how much it cost to buy the 100-Stack of CD-Rs I used to burn all these games with.

Also at Dreamcast-Talk.com some guy has been uploading NEOGEO-CD games that run perfectly on the DC.

So I implore you all, Stop throwing money down the drain. Get a stack of writeable CD's and start burning.

[kool kitty89]

Or just use an emulator on a computer, which in many cases would be more accurate any way.

[Nunzio]

$14.99, if you count your time is worthless, a percentage of the cost of the PC, maintenance, internet connection, electricity, piece of rent for the amount of space it takes up in your home etc, etc...

[Baloo]

$14.99, if you count your time is worthless, a percentage of the cost of the PC, maintenance, internet connection, electricity, piece of rent for the amount of space it takes up in your home etc, etc...

This.

Also, because it's official. Most people don't know about emulators, or how to use NesterDC to burn an ISO to a CD-R to play on their Dreamcast.

I for one, can't stand emulators, Burning ISOs to disks, and any/all of that other nonsense. Emulators are so unnatural, and it's stealing too. Also, playing the game on the real system is probably 1000x better than playing it on an emulator or a collection of some sorts. I like collections as a whole, because it helps keep classic games and companies like Sega alive, but I myself prefer the real, original deal.

Then again, I might be biased due to the fact that I have most of those old systems.

[TheEdge]

$14.99, if you count your time is worthless, a percentage of the cost of the PC, maintenance, internet connection, electricity, piece of rent for the amount of space it takes up in your home etc, etc...

So instead of playing these countless classics for free at any time on my Dreamcast I should pay $5 for each on an "official" virtual console? Also you play your virtual consoles in a house right? with maintenance? internet connection? electricity? Rent? So whats the difference?


ridiculous

Get a stack of CD-R's and go to DCISOZONE.com

[InternalPrimate]

Why do people pay money for old school games on their PS3 / XBOX360 / Wii?

This is so silly to me. Yesterday when I got home from work I went over to my Dreamcast popped in my NesterDC disc and played MegaMan2 for hours.

How much did it cost for every single NES, SMS, Genesis, TurboGrafx, SNES game ever created?

$14.99

Why did it cost $14.99? Cause thats how much it cost to buy the 100-Stack of CD-Rs I used to burn all these games with.

Also at Dreamcast-Talk.com some guy has been uploading NEOGEO-CD games that run perfectly on the DC.

So I emplore you all, Stop throwing money down the drain. Get a stack of writeable CD's and start burning.


$14.99 isn't the official price of anything, it's the amount you used to fund your (sorta/kinda) illegal hobby. That people pay for retro games (I just plopped down $5.99 for Suikoden 1) is their perogative and because it's the legal way of doing things, I'd argue that it isn't wasting money at all. In fact, $5.99 for Suikoden is a heck of a deal!

That being said, I wholly agree with you Edge that NesterDC is a gift from the gaming heavens :D

[Nunzio]

So instead of playing these countless classics for free at any time on my Dreamcast I should pay $5 for each on an "official" virtual console? Also you play your virtual consoles in a house right? with maintenance? internet connection? electricity? Rent? So whats the difference?


Yeah I know, just felt like saying $14.99 isn't an accurate figure. However, a game console takes up way less space and electricity than a PC. But you don't have to upgrade and maintain a console like a PC. For the PC we're even counting a piece of the upgrade of anti-virus software. Shit adds up. Still nowhere near the cost of a several virtual console downloads, but still $14.99 is a bit of an exaggeration.

[TheEdge]

$14.99 isn't the official price of anything, it's the amount you used to fund your (sorta/kinda) illegal hobby. That people pay for retro games (I just plopped down $5.99 for Suikoden 1) is their perogative and because it's the legal way of doing things, I'd argue that it isn't wasting money at all. In fact, $5.99 for Suikoden is a heck of a deal!

That being said, I wholly agree with you Edge that NesterDC is a gift from the gaming heavens :D


Well, I wasn't saying that ALL games should be emulated.

I just bought
6-Pak
Shinobi III
Contra Hard Corps
Sub Terrainia
Vectorman
Rocket Knight adventure

All in Cartridge form! Legit, Official!

What I am saying is why would anyone buy any of these virtual roms on these new consoles? If you buy every single retro game on the PS3 / 360 / Wii virtual consoles then the price to your credit card would be astronomical. Why not (if you have a Dreamcast / CD Burner) burn a copy of a emulator and use it for your DC? I don't understand people. They are sucking the money out of ya.

If you going to toss money away the least you can do is mail it to me!



Yeah I know, just felt like saying $14.99 isn't an accurate figure. However, a game console takes up way less space and electricity than a PC. But you don't have to upgrade and maintain a console like a PC. For the PC we're even counting a piece of the upgrade of anti-virus software. Shit adds up. Still nowhere near the cost of a several virtual console downloads, but still $14.99 is a bit of an exaggeration.

I don't know if you know this but you can burn a CD with a Computer that is from 1996. This whole mythology that you have to maintain a PC like a Ferrari is incorrect. You buy it and you use it for 10 years.

[MrMatthews]

What I am saying is why would anyone buy any of these virtual roms on these new consoles? If you buy every single retro game on the PS3 / 360 / Wii virtual consoles then the price to your credit card would be astronomical. Why not (if you have a Dreamcast / CD Burner) burn a copy of a emulator and use it for your DC? I don't understand people. They are sucking the money out of ya.

If you going to toss money away the least you can do is mail it to me!



Okay, that seems fair . . .

*pulls out wallet*

. . . WAIT A MINUTE!!!

Who the hell is downloading every retro game on the PS3/360/Wii? There are a couple hundred on the Virtual Console alone, but how many of those games do you think each individual person actually downloads? I myself have about twenty, I think.

I have no interest in dealing with the hassle of emulated games, so $5 to $10 every once in a while for a game from the VC is pretty reasonable. I see it as changing motor oil yourself versus going to Jiffy Lube. DIY is cheaper, but many people either don't know how to do it, are unable to do it, or simply are too lazy. Might as well spend the extra dough for the convenience of having a professional do it for you.

[celticsfan]

I agree with you Mr Matthews. Some people have so many other commitments in life that they don't have the time to burn roms to disc.

I love to go to the old stores and get the games in cartridge form and play them on all my old systems, but for some who don't have those old systems, buying them is the next best thing because they can play them while sitting on the couch, with friends over, and so on.

I liken it to my other hobby: collecting vinyl records. Yeah, I can download Pink Floyd's The Wall through so many ways, but I'd rather have the actual record spinning on the turntable.

Nostalgia can't be dismissed.

[TheEdge]

I don't think you guys know how fast it takes to download these emulators and burn them.

I can only estimate 10 minutes the most. For every single game on a certain retro console FULLY PLAYABLE with fully rendered games and autofire options.

10 minutes each. WOW thats a lot of time. Sometimes I think you guys disagree with me for the sake of disagreeing. Jeez.

Deleted the link

[Knuckle Duster]

YAY! Another "Dead Horse" topic.

Usually its a dialogue like:

Pirate:"Yaarrr piracy is cheap and easy! You're dumb for buying things!"
Wii Owner:"I don't play video games regularly any more, and it's convenient to see nostalgic titles from my childhood available on this new toy that I picked up for the kids at a moderately cheap price, I don't have older hardware or want to play emulators on my PC"

Seriously. This topic has been argued and discussed again and again everywhere.

I hereby propose a mandatory castration for repeated offenses.
Make it happen mods. Work your magic. Start collecting balls.

[TheEdge]

My Genesis is still hooked up but I don't have a SNES nor do I wish to purchase one and I have no room in my wall unit to put my NES so next best thing is to play it FOR FREE on my DC.

Now if you excuse me I have zombies to kill in Castlevania 3!

[celticsfan]

10 minutes? That's all? Because with that 10 minutes, I think your average gamer/parent could be paying bills online, getting dinner ready, picking up kids from school, helping them with homework, spending time with their significant other, checking work-related emails, grabbing 30 minutes to sit down and have some relaxation time, put the kids to bed, spend some more time with the spouse, go to bed, wake up, go to work, come home, and do it all over again.

Yeah, if I'm that husband/parent, $15 is a lot easier to do. You make it sound like everyone has 10 minutes to spare, when in reality, 10 minutes is too valuable to worry about burning roms.

[Baloo]

10 minutes? That's all? Because with that 10 minutes, I think your average gamer/parent could be paying bills online, getting dinner ready, picking up kids from school, helping them with homework, spending time with their significant other, checking work-related emails, grabbing 30 minutes to sit down and have some relaxation time, put the kids to bed, spend some more time with the spouse, go to bed, wake up, go to work, come home, and do it all over again.

Yeah, if I'm that husband/parent, $15 is a lot easier to do. You make it sound like everyone has 10 minutes to spare, when in reality, 10 minutes is too valuable to worry about burning roms.

Yeah, ten minutes is a long time, and it can take even LONGER if you find faulty ISO files, or the computer crashes mid-burn, or you pop the wrong CD in, or something else goes wrong. I tell you, I've burned about 4 games for my Dreamcast, and all of 1 worked. That's how ridiculous trying to find files that work are. And let's not forget downloading times either for the program to burn it to the disc, and for each file. And if it's in a torrent (which some of them are actually) forget it, it'll take you the entire day to play one game, that might not even work. And the fact that it's illegal doesn't help the matter much either.

It's so much easier to pay the 500-1000 Wii Points for the game and wait 5 minutes to play it, rather than take 30+ minutes downloading some emulators, ROMs, other files, buying CD-Rs, and burning the CDs.

[TheEdge]

You guys have by far the weakest counter argument ....:cool:

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[MrMatthews]

I don't think there's any argument at all here - it's just an endless round-about of one preference over another. I could care less about how much time it actually takes to burn these CD's. I don't want to have to try to find the ROMs to begin with, nor the software to run them. Fuck all that - I'll just spend the $8 to download Super Punch-out! from the VC when Nintendo releases it next week.

You guys and your ROMs keep at it. It obviously works for you and I'm happy for you. But it is a preference, and no one's stupid or ignorant for not choosing it.

[Knuckle Duster]

What counter argument?

You're saying that homebrew enabled piracy on discontinued or modded hardware is greater and more convenient than DLC on modern systems aimed to profit from casual gamers who don't care about games much anyway.

Do you not see the flaw in your logic?

Are you for real or being sarcastic? I really can't tell. You talk like a 'scene-kiddie-fucktard' who just discovered how to use bit torrent and now considers himself a 'hacker'. I thought those types only existed in PSP forums these days, touting their battery swapping skills while fapping to monster hunter.

I'm not going to say it's wrong, since that would be a 'pot and kettle' argument , but I will say it's a 'stupid' comparison that's been already discussed.

[TheEdge]

OMG, All I am saying is that people shouldn't waste there money if they can just download NESTERDC or any other Rom collection and just burn it and play it on the DC. No mod necessary.

You don't need to track down any roms, THEY are already built into the file.

Look!

ROM linking = no no. Melf

800 + games

Works great.

Its just funny that you can fool people into purchasing anything if they don't know any better.

[MrMatthews]

Knuckle Duster, don't be so quick to dismiss VC patrons as "casual gamers who don't play video games that much.". Some of us are avid gamers.

[stalepie]

Why do people pay money for old school games on their PS3 / XBOX360 / Wii?

This is so silly to me. Yesterday when I got home from work I went over to my Dreamcast popped in my NesterDC disc and played MegaMan2 for hours.

How much did it cost for every single NES, SMS, Genesis, TurboGrafx, SNES game ever created?

$14.99

Why did it cost $14.99? Cause thats how much it cost to buy the 100-Stack of CD-Rs I used to burn all these games with.

Also at Dreamcast-Talk.com some guy has been uploading NEOGEO-CD games that run perfectly on the DC.

So I emplore you all, Stop throwing money down the drain. Get a stack of writeable CD's and start burning.

You should support the industry and stop stealing. It's like books. Old books are still reprinted, old movies are still reprinted as well. It is not legal or ethical to download them without paying.

[TheEdge]

You should support the industry and stop stealing. It's like books. Old books are still reprinted, old movies are still reprinted as well. It is not legal or ethical to download them without paying.

Dude, these games haven't been in print for over a decade. I highly doubt Nintendo still makes SNES / NES carts and sells them at the nearest Gamestop:confused:

[Knuckle Duster]

Knuckle Duster, don't be so quick to dismiss VC patrons as "casual gamers who don't play video games that much.". Some of us are avid gamers.

Agreed, as it stands with Nintendo's casual marketing, aside from a few titles, the VC is whats keeping the avid gamers alive on the Wii.

Regardless though, one can't argue that it's more "convenient to the masses to find and burn a bootleg iso for a dead console." rather than "park one's ass on the couch in front of a wii or 360, see a nostalgic game that cost's 10 bucks, and reach for ones credit card in their wallet."

It boils off to be a different issue, between piracy, literacy towards technology, and willingness to give a fuck either way. I personally don't.
I just think TheEdge here is pushing off a bad vibe for himself. I'm sure I'm not alone in seeing that link as further justification to the absurdity of the argument.

I'd rather piracy not be 'above the underground' so to speak, and it's become so mainstream and flooded with fools and noobs, that to talk about it openly (let alone argue for it) is almost a hate crime worthy offense to me...and I AM a pirate when I want to be.

[celticsfan]

Dude, these games haven't been in print for over a decade. I highly doubt Nintendo still makes SNES / NES carts and sells them at the nearest Gamestop:confused:

No but those little game shops that rely on our nostalgia to stay in business, especially in this crappy economy, could sure use some extra dough, especially from those of us who have the old systems alive and kicking.

It goes back to my record player argument. Sure you can download if you have the time, but I like my gaming experience to be authentic, carts and all.

[Metal_Sonic]

A clusterfuck? in Sega-16 forums?

EDIT: On topic, I like the Wii VC. Get the expensive rare games for a great price and a good controller to play with(IMO). Emulators and ROMS dont feel the same as playing it on my TV and the DC has a piece of shit controller(IMO) so using the Wii VC just makes sense to me.

[Alvatron]

Good topic, TheEdge, I always try Genny games on an emulator, then if I want to buy them I go on Ebay or what ever. Thats what's good about emulation, you can try before you buy.

[Knuckle Duster]

Good topic, TheEdge, I always try Genny games on an emulator, then if I want to buy them I go on Ebay or what ever. Thats what's good about emulation, you can try before you buy.

Did you actually read his first post?

He's not saying "Try emulation before you buy a cart on ebay."

He's basically saying "Pirate and emulate games that are old on a dreamcast, they should be free, buying them legitimately on newer systems is foolish compared to piracy, Please don't buy them."

Then later defends his logic by posting a link to a prebuilt ISO of the emulation software & roms, while also mentioning Dreamsnes, an emulator that can't even handle normal speeds for SNES roms.

This is far from a "Good topic." It's disgustingly ignorant.

[TheEdge]

No but those little game shops that rely on our nostalgia to stay in business, especially in this crappy economy, could sure use some extra dough, especially from those of us who have the old systems alive and kicking.

It goes back to my record player argument. Sure you can download if you have the time, but I like my gaming experience to be authentic, carts and all.

Let me break out the smallest violin in the world. These freakin game shops don't even pay their employees a living wage + benefits. Screw em. Also its not JUST nostalgia that keeps these businesses going its all the NEW games that they are filled with. I highly doubt that these games shop have been depending on our generation alone for the last 20 years for profits.

Who do you think plays all those crappy Sonic games that just came out? Retro gamers? I think not.

PSSSSH!

[kool kitty89]

I'm kind of in the middle here, I like the ability to emulate games and don't find it particularly difficult to find the game files or good emulators (Fusion, ZSNES, SNES 9X etc, not to mention DOSBox). Many of the emulators are very close to the original hardware (if not better in some areas, inless you have a modded console or RGB through SCART or a VGA adaptor) and offer the option to elliminate some bugs. (flicker etc) Most of the small ROM files (off carts, in the 6 MB or less range)
It's also convienent to play for game that I do own. (pluss the added bug fixes and options like the YM2413 FM synth for the SMS)

And pretty much everyone is going to own a computer. (if you're posting here you almost certainly do) And there are a fair number of Emu's for Mac as well as the odd console. For playing games up through the early 5th gen you don't need a particularly powerful computer either.

That said, I don't have anything newere than 32x on emulation, and, in fact I first started emulating a couple years back just so I could get Star Fox 2. (which I would snap up if they offered on VC, though given the apparent issues with Argonaut releasing even the original Star Fox, this seems unlikely) While not all is true abandonware, some is, and none if far off.

There are other cases where emulation is the only practical option, if a game is simply out of production and becomes quite rare or desireable, it may be difficult to find and very expensive (Panorama Cotton), not to mention if you don't have the ability to play games out of region. Then, of course, unreleased games (as I mentiond with Star Fox 2).

Of course you could also play legitimate copies of most CD based games on emulators as well. And in the case of old PC games (ie DOSBox use) that's pretty much all I do, though there are some games that are particularly hard to find and/or expensive, or only available on 5 1/4" floppy. (though most of these have become true abandonware)

In the case of the rare expensive games, having them on VC makes a lot of sense, I'm not going to buy Earthbound for 70+ (with ship) dollars for the loose cart, but I'd probably buy it for ~$5 for VC.



On VC speciffically, you could technically (not condoning this) pirate that as well (WiiWare too) as it can be backed up on an SD card. Thus you could download the file (assuming someone has pirated it and made it available) to an SD card and plug it straight into your Wii. (you'd need an interface for SD to USB or symilar, of course)

[jerry coeurl]

I'm not really a huge patron of VC, I guess you could say I subscribe to TheEdge's point of view. But I've definitely used it a few times to snag something that I've wanted for a while, and it's useful for that. Generally speaking, I don't really like emulation (the exception being PSX emulation on my PSP), and although I have burned plenty of Dreamcast ISOs in my day I just really prefer to play the actual cart/cd. So I don't emulate much at all anymore, I guess it just feels too digital for me.

[Iron Lizard]

I used to be an emulator junky. I always would rather have the real thing but sometimes it not possible. I had my computer hooked up to the TV and it actually worked well. I also had adapter so I could use my six button. I don't mess around much with them anymore though. It just seems like such a pain in the ass. I also get a component connection with my PS2 so things like Metal Slug Anthology, R-types, Capcom Classics look far better then my PC's crappy compos(h)ite connection and its much easier to load everything.

[17daysolderthannes]

Sometimes I think you guys disagree with me for the sake of disagreeing. Jeez.


Ya know, I get that alot too...I think its in the forum rules:

"every poster must disagree with the thread starter until 15 posts have elapsed, then one must post agreeing with the starter and the immediately leave and never return to the thread, but the defender's single post must be argued until the thread is derailed entirely"


lol

back on topic:

You guys are just finding out about this stuff?

Shit, almost every system I own is loaded to the teeth with ROMs

I can tell you now, the main reason I started collecting retro games is BECAUSE virtual console was such a rip off. Not only that, but its very restrictive and you can't even use save states or graphics filters, etc. Hell, some emulators even let you use overclocking to play games like 2 player Sonic 2 or Viewpoint with no slowdown, but not VC. I can very easily get the most accurate emulator and full rom set for any system in about 10-20 minutes depending on download speed.

So why buy vintage games when I can bootleg them no problem? Ehhh, a bunch of reasons. For one, saying you own a cartridge of the game is 1000X more authoritative than saying you have a ROM of it. For another, there is no denying you own that game and are entitled to play it any way you want, unlike VC or XBOX Live Arcade that can jank your Romz at any time and leave you with nothing if your system breaks or their database gets messed up somehow (fuck download-only games). Owning the real hardware lets you experience the game exactly as it was when the system was still new, with the same graphical imperfections and strange glitches. Also, vintage games are generally cheap so you don't really lose much. I think the total price of all of my video game stuff is STILL less than the cost of a turbo kit for my car, and I get WAY more enjoyment out of it.

The only emulator I use religiously is MAME since it is completely unrealistic to actually try to own all the PCBs of arcade games you would want. Anything remotely desirable (and working) will easily fetch $100 and then some of them have problems like dying capacitors or even worse suicide batteries that will render it inoperable if it dies. The only arcade remotely reasonable to collect for is the Neo Geo, which I will do someday when I have the money and room for an MVS.

If anyone is interested, these are the emulators I would recommend for best accuracy and features (for PC):

NES - Nestopia

SNES - SNES9X or ZSNES (your pick, there are strengths and weaknesses to both)

Genesis - Kega Fusion (don't forget to download the graphics plug-ins!)

MAME - version .126, some may disagree, but I can tell you v .130 is a BITCH to find working Neo Geo bios files for, and I know you can use renamers, but I still have yet to find one that works on the networked computers I'm using. If you have a Mac, seek out MAME OS X, its the shit and I find works BETTER than the PC version.



If you are thinking of modding a system, consider these options:

Dreamcast - by far the cheapest route at about $20 (just make sure its made before Oct 2000 or it won't read backups), but at the same time it is hard as hell to learn how to make your own emulator discs unless you download a pre-made .cdi file with all the ROMs already (burn with Disk Juggler). However, besides SMS and NES, the emulators SUCK for Dreamcast. The only half decent Genesis emulator is called Obsidian and the sound sucks and its technically Warez so you can only download it on torrents with whatever games it comes with. Dream SNES is slow as shit on everything except Donkey Kong, Mario World, and RPGs.

PSP - pretty easy to find someone to mod it, if you can't find someone, buy a Pandora battery online (dealextreme.com has them for $7 shipped) and an extra Memory Card and download Rain's MMS Maker to prep the card for modding. The accuracy is OK, and if you have a 2001 you can get Progressive scan output to a TV (mega portable). Good if you need something portable. Best of all, you can save money buy buying a PSP with a broken UMD drive.

XBOX (original) - the only thing this god forsaken piece of shit does well, and boy does it do it well. Arguably better than a PC with an S-Video output, a modded XBOX will play just about anything N64 and prior. NES, SNES, and Genesis are PERFECT and have a boatload of customization options. With 8 GB of storage space, you can store quite a bit of ROMs (probably get it complete). The only downside is that transferring the files is pretty difficult for no good reason (in my experience) because you have to use Ethernet connections and the IP never wants to connect. But if you can get it working, this thing is f'n amazing, just remember to buy a different controller because the standard XBOX controller SUCKS.

[17daysolderthannes]

OMG, All I am saying is that people shouldn't waste there money if they can just download NESTERDC or any other Rom collection and just burn it and play it on the DC. No mod necessary.

You don't need to track down any roms, THEY are already built into the file.

Look!

ROM Linking's not allowed!

800 + games

Works great.

Its just funny that you can fool people into purchasing anything if they don't know any better.

Well, there is the whole "legality" thing, which IMO the law is ridiculous and should be changed, but that was covered in another thread that was largely met with "la la la la la can't hear you."

That said, VERY few people that buy cartridges don't know about emulators, in fact, the most avid collectors usually will have at least a couple systems that can play emulators or AT LEAST have emulators on their computers. Vintage NES games are more akin to trading cards than games nowadays. The funny thing is that people that are into games enough to know about emulators are also "in the know" enough to know that you can fix/clean vintage games and systems. Most people assume a blinking NES is broken forever and that Wii VC is the only way they will ever play those games again.

It always has been and still is my opinion that older games SHOULD be enjoyed for free as a history lesson. Playing Sonic 2 for free isn't keeping anyone from buying Halo Wars, I ASSURE you of that. I have discovered and bought more games due to emulation than any advertisement, magazine, or website. If it wasn't for emulation, I would've never known or cared about the excellent Fatal Fury and King of Fighters series, of which I now own 3 compilations and a stand-alone game for PS2, and I one day plan to own a good bit of them on MVS cartridges.

[InternalPrimate]

I just want Edge to read this again:

I agree with you that NesterDC is the tits. When I first downloaded NesterDC SE, I went crazy with that thing. I LOVED it. Since then, I've just kind of cooled on the idea. I like my NES box controller (which hurts my hands with extended play) more than my DC controller. It's just a matter of preference, that's all. If anything, you should use the DC's amazing capabilities to check out some classics you otherwise wouldn't.

Just wanted to make it clear that I am NOT arguing with Edge. This time :D

[TheEdge]

I guess it all depends on your circumstance. Like I said in my other post, I don't have room for my NES so the next best thing is a NES Emulator on my Dreamcast. I'm also waiting for a MAME emulator for the DC as well and they just uploaded an Atari 7800 Emulator as well a few days ago (Roms included, of course!)



Eitherway, I would suggest, which all this thread really is, to not waste your cash and get price gouged on your virtual consoles. Do some leg work, dust off the DC, and get burning.

[MrMatthews]

I'd consider this for arcade titles. However, I have kind of a block on ROMs because I question their quality. If I'm not getting a 99% accurate emulation, I don't want to bother. At least with the VC (which will start offering arcade titles shortly), you can read reviews.

[TheEdge]

I'd consider this for arcade titles. However, I have kind of a block on ROMs because I question their quality. If I'm not getting a 99% accurate emulation, I don't want to bother. At least with the VC (which will start offering arcade titles shortly), you can read reviews.



Your right, Some of the roms don't work exactly the way they should. I have noticed that many of the driving games are screwed up (I.E. Rad Racers) which pisses me off to no end. Also some titles don't even load up so I agree its a hit or miss sometimes.

If you want a specific game to run perfectly and the emulators are not working then I would definitely say drop the cash on the Virtual Console but if you want more bang for your buck, I would definitely try the DC emulators first.

[Gentlegamer]

If the basic argument is "emulation is better than buying Virtual Console games that you don't really own and can't resell," I agree.

The cost factor comparison is also evident in the various Sega Genesis compilations and the individual game cost through the VC.

[TheEdge]

I think the NeoGeo, Genesis, Capcom, Midway, and Taito compilations are well worth it mainly because you have a physical copy that was developed well.

When I finally figure out where I am going to put my PS2 I'm definitely picking them up. I heard though that some of their emulation isnt 100% but that may be just a rumor.

[MrMatthews]

When I finally figure out where I am going to put my PS2 I'm definitely picking them up. I heard though that some of their emulation isnt 100% but that may be just a rumor.

I can personally confirm this, at least with the two mega man compilations (which I have for the GameCube). The differences aren't detrimental to the gameplay at all, but I definitely encountered some "WTF" moments when I ran through the classic games.

[David J.]

For the people who bitch about their pc looking like ass on a TV... get a good ATI video card that supports component/HDMI, what has you...

My ATI supports component, composite, Svideo, VGA, DVI, HDMI... shit.

[Knuckle Duster]

Ya know, I get that alot too...I think its in the forum rules:

"every poster must disagree with the thread starter until 15 posts have elapsed, then one must post agreeing with the starter and the immediately leave and never return to the thread, but the defender's single post must be argued until the thread is derailed entirely"


lol

back on topic:

You guys are just finding out about this stuff?

Shit, almost every system I own is loaded to the teeth with ROMs

For the most part I assume no, but if you were to look at anything TheEdge posted, you would think this because he's basically furthering the "noob standard" philosophy which usually comes across as "zomg! look at this, i can steal gamez! lol DLC suxorz!" And I can agree with where he is coming from, I just think he's an idiot for at least 3 times recommending and at least twice LINKING to a site which clearly gos against this:

"• While emulation discussion is permitted due to its importance in the areas of archiving and historical documentation of the gaming industry, no ISO trading, ROM begging, bootlegging, copyright infringement, or assistance with any of these is permitted – for example warez FTP site details. Out of respect to retrogaming stores, game developers, and growing legal concerns, discussion about the obtaining of illegal ROMs is prohibited. Illegal ROMs are defined as any ROM, regardless of age, that has been copyrighted in the past 100 years. Threads discussing the location or acquiring of ROMs and/or illegal (pirated) software will be locked per the discretion of a forum moderator or administrator. As companies continue to release retro games through virtual releases or retro gaming packs for modern gaming systems, the threat of getting a cease-and-desist order grows. In order to preserve the gaming community we've all worked so hard to build, we ask that you respect Sega-16 and refrain from the discussion of illegal ROMs. It doesn't matter what is legal in your country, there are no exceptions to this rule.

Violators will be punished with temporary or permanent banning, depending on the severity of the offense."

Which IS in the forum rules.

I hate 'stupid' pirates. Can't you tell?



XBOX (original) - the only thing this god forsaken piece of shit does well, and boy does it do it well. Arguably better than a PC with an S-Video output, a modded XBOX will play just about anything N64 and prior. NES, SNES, and Genesis are PERFECT and have a boatload of customization options. With 8 GB of storage space, you can store quite a bit of ROMs (probably get it complete). The only downside is that transferring the files is pretty difficult for no good reason (in my experience) because you have to use Ethernet connections and the IP never wants to connect. But if you can get it working, this thing is f'n amazing, just remember to buy a different controller because the standard XBOX controller SUCKS.

The xbox does not 'suck' because you do not know how to configure DHCP or Static IP addresses. Something a router would do with a guided piece of software anyway. They usually come with ridiculously easy to use install disks. Even if that isn't the case, It's still extremely easy to drop an xbox on a network, turn it on, and access it from a PC. You sound like you're just biased against it.

In actual fairness it already emulates most platforms that the DC can't handle, and can even run Mame exceptionally good. It's off the shelf nature makes it cheap to replace a hard drive, optical drive, and even add ram if you're a technically proficient.
Then there's the fact that you don't even need to crack it open for basic homebrew with a software modification when starting, icing on the cake.

It's controller's are USB derived, making them easy to hack for added keyboard/mice. It can run linux, and the XBMC software makes the overall package pretty much perfect for what you'd pay for it. No more than $50 used stock system, that can become a media player to stream AVI files off your network. Come on now.

[TheEdge]

^ :bull: :roll:

Welcome to the year 2000. People play emulators. Get over it.

[Knuckle Duster]

^ :bull: :roll:

Welcome to the year 2000. People play emulators. Get over it.

Ignorance is bliss?

I play emulators.
I don't however link to roms on forums for fairly obvious reasons.

You're an idiot.

[TheEdge]

Ignorance is bliss?

I play emulators.
I don't however link to roms on forums for fairly obvious reasons.

You're an idiot.

I think you need to grab a Orangeade Snapple and chill out. As I said before this is just logical and hopefully I can save some forum members some money with this idea.

I collect carts as well. I just purchased a truck load of them BUT I'm not going to toss $10 dollars into the wind on virutal console crap if I can get it for the DC for nothing.

[Iron Lizard]

For the people who bitch about their pc looking like ass on a TV... get a good ATI video card that supports component/HDMI, what has you...

My ATI supports component, composite, Svideo, VGA, DVI, HDMI... shit.

It didn't look terrible in fact it looked better then my Genesis through composite but the component through my Ps2 still crushes it.

[TheEdge]

That being said, I wholly agree with you Edge that NesterDC is a gift from the gaming heavens :D


Good topic, TheEdge, I always try Genny games on an emulator, then if I want to buy them I go on Ebay or what ever. Thats what's good about emulation, you can try before you buy.


I'm not really a huge patron of VC, I guess you could say I subscribe to TheEdge's point of view. But I've definitely used it a few times to snag something that I've wanted for a while, and it's useful for that. Generally speaking, I don't really like emulation (the exception being PSX emulation on my PSP), and although I have burned plenty of Dreamcast ISOs in my day I just really prefer to play the actual cart/cd. So I don't emulate much at all anymore, I guess it just feels too digital for me.




I agree with you that NesterDC is the tits. When I first downloaded NesterDC SE, I went crazy with that thing. I LOVED it. Since then, I've just kind of cooled on the idea. I like my NES box controller (which hurts my hands with extended play) more than my DC controller. It's just a matter of preference, that's all. If anything, you should use the DC's amazing capabilities to check out some classics you otherwise wouldn't.

Just wanted to make it clear that I am NOT arguing with Edge. This time :D



If the basic argument is "emulation is better than buying Virtual Console games that you don't really own and can't resell," I agree.

The cost factor comparison is also evident in the various Sega Genesis compilations and the individual game cost through the VC.

Knuckle Duster......YOU LOSE SIR, GOOD DAY

:boxer:

[Knuckle Duster]

I think you need to grab a Orangeade Snapple and chill out. As I said before this is just logical and hopefully I can save some forum members some money with this idea.

I collect carts as well. I just purchased a truck load of them BUT I'm not going to toss $10 dollars into the wind on virutal console crap if I can get it for the DC for nothing.

Promoting "piracy" for the sake of other forum members saving money, by linking to "Roms" when it's clearly a violation of the board's ToS?

Forum members who are probably smart enough to have figured this shit out 10 years ago when the system was still alive, seeing as to how its ease of piracy was a major financial blow leading to it's withdrawl from the market?

You think you're "helping out" by stating the obvious?

I apologize if I seem "hostile", but I have seen enough sites get fucked over on the internet due to the bullshit mentality you're preaching and have little to no tolerance for it.

[TheEdge]

Promoting "piracy" for the sake of other forum members saving money, by linking to "Roms" when it's clearly a violation of the board's ToS?

Forum members who are probably smart enough to have figured this shit out 10 years ago when the system was still alive, seeing as to how its ease of piracy was a major financial blow leading to it's withdrawl from the market?

You think you're "helping out" by stating the obvious?

I apologize if I seem "hostile", but I have seen enough sites get fucked over on the internet due to the bullshit mentality you're preaching and have little to no tolerance for it.


Your a nutter.......aren't you?


"Financial blow leading to it's withdrawl from the market?"

What?

I guess these companies have no idea what the internet or roms are?

They new full well that there has been roms on the web for some time now. They also new that they could get a 100% mark up price on the same exact roms on the Virtual console with little or no effort.

All I got to say is don't be robbed

your one crazy critter. Knuckle busters

[Knuckle Duster]

Knuckle Duster......YOU LOSE SIR, GOOD DAY

:boxer:

Lose what?

Do you see some competition in my clearly worded posts on how "I agree with emulation, however I also think you are stupid for linking to roms as an arguement towards stating the convenience of pirating on a dead console VS a current mainstream system"

I agree with everything you're saying TheEdge.

I however am not delusional to the issue of how much simpler it is to legally purchase games via DLC, nor do I preach about piracy.

Regardless of what you may believe, it still is piracy, it still is illegal, and while unlikely, it still is 'loaded enough' to kill this forum with a cease-and-desist orders.

[TheEdge]

I agree with everything you're saying TheEdge.


Thank you for agreeing and I accept your apology

[Scooter]

Oh yes, please, save us from ourselves. :rolleyes:

It's a matter of choice, get over it.

What about all those PS3, 360 and Wii owners who don't have a Dreamcast? I'd think this would be quite a few of them too.

Personally, if I want to own a game and therefore if I want to play a game, I'll buy the game in its original format and play it on the actual system for which it was made. I don't WANT to own every game and for those that I do want I'm willing to pay to obtain it or I'll be happy to do without. I've already got more games now than I'll ever be able to finish in many lifetimes anyway....

[FoxHound]

Mk2 on PS3. 4-5 dollars and My friend and I are playing again like we did when were 12 years old. Yet we are both enjoying from the comfort of our own homes, and dont need to to drive 45 min to meet up at one anothers house just to play..legal emulation works for me..

[MrMatthews]

Thank you for agreeing and I accept your apology


Edge, you really don't have to be a dick here. Knuckle Duster is trying to tell you that the subject of this thread violates clearly-stated forum rules.

[TheEdge]

I hereby propose a mandatory castration for repeated offenses.
Make it happen mods. Work your magic. Start collecting balls.


What counter argument?

You're saying that homebrew enabled piracy on discontinued or modded hardware is greater and more convenient than DLC on modern systems aimed to profit from casual gamers who don't care about games much anyway.

Do you not see the flaw in your logic?

Are you for real or being sarcastic? I really can't tell. You talk like a 'scene-kiddie-fucktard' who just discovered how to use bit torrent and now considers himself a 'hacker'. I thought those types only existed in PSP forums these days, touting their battery swapping skills while fapping to monster hunter.

I'm not going to say it's wrong, since that would be a 'pot and kettle' argument , but I will say it's a 'stupid' comparison that's been already discussed.


Did you actually read his first post?

This is far from a "Good topic." It's disgustingly ignorant.


For the most part I assume no, but if you were to look at anything TheEdge posted, you would think this because he's basically furthering the "noob standard" philosophy which usually comes across as "zomg! look at this, i can steal gamez! lol DLC suxorz!" And I can agree with where he is coming from, I just think he's an idiot for at least 3 times recommending and at least twice LINKING to a site which clearly gos against this:


I hate 'stupid' pirates. Can't you tell?



Ignorance is bliss?

You're an idiot.

Matthews, I've been meaning to ask. What planet do you live on? Planet Oblivious?

[MrMatthews]

I never said he made his point especially tactfully, but when he explained the hostility later it sounded pretty reasonable to me.

[Devil N]

Let me get this straight... you're participating on a forum dedicated to collecting antique 16-bit Sega games, and at the same time you're complaining about people throwing money down the drain? The mind boggles...

[TheEdge]

Let me get this straight... you're participating on a forum dedicated to collecting antique 16-bit Sega games, and at the same time you're complaining about people throwing money down the drain? The mind boggles...

All wrong.......as usual:shame::daze:


What I have been saying this whole entire time is don't waste your money on virtual console games on PS3 / 360 / Wii if you can just burn them and play them on your Dreamcast. If you have read the thread.....which you haven't.....this would be obvious.

Please feel free to re-read the thread. thanks

[kool kitty89]

I still don't get what the big deal is with a DC emulator in particular. First you have to go through the trouble, time, and cost of burning CD's and second the emulation won't be up to par as on a PC. (or MAC... or Linux PC... Or even XBOX)

As long as you have a decent computer (one that was top of the line about 6 years ago -for games up to 5th gen) you should be fine, particularly since all emulators really need is sufficient CPU reasourse and RAM.

Provided you have a decent gamepad for your computer. (not to mention a USB adaptor for your favorite console pad, or old DA-15 gameport pad) The Gravis Xterminator is an excellent jack of all trades controller.

[TheEdge]

Virtual Console games are a waste of money IMO if you can get it for the DC, XBOX, or any other medium then do it!

Don't be ripped off thats all.

You might as well buy the official Ninja Gaiden in Cartridge form for $5.99 then some electronic file on your console.

[Devil N]

All wrong.......as usual:shame::daze:


What I have been saying this whole entire time is don't waste your money on virtual console games on PS3 / 360 / Wii if you can just burn them and play them on your Dreamcast. If you have read the thread.....which you haven't.....this would be obvious.

Please feel free to re-read the thread. thanks
And you don't quite seem to comprehend what other people are saying... as usual.

Yes I have read the topic, and I know what your point is. I partially agree, partially not, but overall I don't really care enough to discuss the subject in-depth. To each his own, which is my opinion in this case.

No, I was merely reflecting upon the irony of you finding activity A to be a waste of money, while activity B, in which you are happily participating, is just as much a waste of money when you look at it. No hard feelings either way. Also, I didn't mean to start an argument, I just thought it was an interesting observation.

[TheEdge]

Its a waste of money if you buy something that is not tangible, meaning physical. You can't hold what your buying on the virtual consoles and when the next console comes out and you no longer use the present one. Then it is ultimately a waste. Might as well get all of them off an emulator for nothing.

You can hold a Cartridge and that solid item does retain value. So no, your thesis is incorrect.

[Gentlegamer]

I think the NeoGeo, Genesis, Capcom, Midway, and Taito compilations are well worth it mainly because you have a physical copy that was developed well. That's what I meant: the official emulated compilations are a far better value than the DL/VC versions.

[TheEdge]

That's what I meant: the official emulated compilations are a far better value than the DL/VC versions.

Ya, I don't understand why its not getting through to some people. :confused:

If you going to buy something at least get something that you can actually hold, comes in a box, has a manual, and disc / cart.

[Gentlegamer]

I'd like to also add:

After browsing some ebay auctions for some TG-16 and Genny games I've been looking for, emulation is a much better alternative than paying ebay sharks outrageous prices.

Either way, the publisher/dev gets no royalty, so why line the pockets of ebay sellers?

[Metal_Sonic]

Ya, I don't understand why its not getting through to some people. :confused:

IRONY!

[TheEdge]

IRONY!

lol, this is coming from the King of the Trolls.

Go back under your bridge.

[Metal_Sonic]

lol, this is coming from the King of the Trolls.

Go back under your bridge.

Hahahaha, man, this is just too funny.

[Devil N]

Ya, I don't understand why its not getting through to some people. :confused:

If you going to buy something at least get something that you can actually hold, comes in a box, has a manual, and disc / cart.
Different people have different definitions of what is value.

I too prefer to have my games/movies/music in a box, with a booklet and on some kind of physical format. I don't see much point in digital downloads for movies, which is something everyone is hyping about at the moment. I'd rather buy a DVD or Blu-ray. I also still buy my music on CD (*gasp!*), even vinyl in some cases. Having something physical that you can showcase in a cabinet gives a much better impression of ownership. So far I definitely agree with you.

On the other hand, classic games present something of a dilemma.

Original copies can only be bought second hand now, with some titles being offered at outrageous prices, as Gentlegamer already mentioned. You do get the giddy feeling of owning a physical copy, but you don't support the original developer in any way. Also, I find second hand copies somewhat less satisfactory, because it's not something I have always owned and still own after all these years.

Using downloaded ROMs with an emulator has no proper value whatsoever IMHO. It's certainly a good way to try out unknown games, to quickly acquire old games that you would like to play again, or to play games that are really rare or expensive. But going through the trouble of burning a Dreamcast CD with emulator and roms doesn't do it for me - it's just not the real thing. Emulation on a PC feels the same to me, and if anything it's easier to set up.

Then we come to the hot topic - digital downloads. No, it does not have the same value as owning a physical copy. But it is the only way to purchase certain games in a way that's easy, fully legal, endorsed by the developers, supported by the publisher, and it's the only way you can reward those people who deserve it. What's more, purchasing a digital version of a game sends out a very clear signal to the people in charge that we still like these old games and are still willing to pay money for them. It encourages them to develop more new games in old school style, of which we all benefit.

Bottom line, I'd still rather buy original copies of old games than downloading virtual versions on a modern console. But that does not mean that digital downloads are useless or have no value. They are an excellent legal solution for the thousands of people who want a taste of retro gaming, but aren't as crazy as we are to actually buy all those old machines.

[Melf]

Dude, these games haven't been in print for over a decade. I highly doubt Nintendo still makes SNES / NES carts and sells them at the nearest Gamestop:confused:

No, Nintendo has been releasing them on the Virtual Console, which is exactly the same thing. It's rereleasing its old properties (albeit at insane prices) for people to buy. Nintendo has been doing this for years, including the NES games released on the GBA and now the VC. Just because you don't have a physical game in your hand with the VC games doesn't change anything.


I think the NeoGeo, Genesis, Capcom, Midway, and Taito compilations are well worth it mainly because you have a physical copy that was developed well.

A physical copy means nothing when it comes to copyright infringement. You can justify it all you want, but please don't try to argue that just downloading ROMS to a disc isn't piracy. It is. Even emulation in the name of posterity and research is subject to scrutiny.


What I have been saying this whole entire time is don't waste your money on virtual console games on PS3 / 360 / Wii if you can just burn them and play them on your Dreamcast. If you have read the thread.....which you haven't.....this would be obvious.

Why not just tell people to seek out the original carts? I never understood the whole "emulate because games are expensive" argument. If I want to collect race cars, can I just steal someone's Ferrari or Porche? Those are too expensive for me to buy, and why should I waste my money on them if I can just take them for free, right?

People buying old games on the VC or in compilations leads to more games released. If everyone just pirated, we never would have gotten the great Taito or Sega collections.

[TheEdge]

No, Nintendo has been releasing them on the Virtual Console, which is exactly the same thing. It's rereleasing its old properties (albeit at insane prices) for people to buy. Nintendo has been doing this for years, including the NES games released on the GBA and now the VC. Just because you don't have a physical game in your hand with the VC games doesn't change anything.

Yes, it does. It says that you haven't really bought anything. They are just allowing you to play an already free game thats on the web everywhere. Its not Nintendo's fault I must admit. If people are that lazy to pay for something thats free thats their own stupidity.

Examples:
Paying for Bottled Water
Paying someone to cut your yard when you have a lawnmower in the garage
Paying for someone to change your oil

And I know your going to say "Well, thats the price of convenience" I beg to differ, convenience is going out for dinner every once in a while. Hiring a cook means your just lazy.




A physical copy means nothing when it comes to copyright infringement. You can justify it all you want, but please don't try to argue that just downloading ROMS to a disc isn't piracy. It is. Even emulation in the name of posterity and research is subject to scrutiny.


Ummmm, never said that it wasn't. Actually the only people that brought it up were the people who constantly make "straw man" arguments. We all know its piracy but if a company is too incompetent in this technological age to protect their intellectual property I believe its their own fault.



Why not just tell people to seek out the original carts? I never understood the whole "emulate because games are expensive" argument. If I want to collect race cars, can I just steal someone's Ferrari or Porche? Those are too expensive for me to buy, and why should I waste my money on them if I can just take them for free, right?

1. I did suggest buying the actual carts. I mentioned that a few times throughout the debate.

2. It is expensive. Especially for an electronic file that you can't hold or save and that will not accumulate value over time.

3. Stealing Ferrari's? I don't follow. Sounds like another straw man argument.


People buying old games on the VC or in compilations leads to more games released. If everyone just pirated, we never would have gotten the great Taito or Sega collections.

Never said that the game compilations were bad, I actually said the complete opposite. I said they were worth it.

ummm, things are pirated all the time and we still got both collections. I don't see the point here.

[InternalPrimate]

I think what you're missing Edge, is that unlike water, mowing your own lawn, or changing your oil, GAMES AREN'T FREE. You keep insisting that people are goofy for paying for games when they're readily available for free. But that's a flawed argument, because while you can get games for free, the practice is, technically, illegal.

And I thought Melf's Ferrari example was perfect. Maybe try to better understand that example and you'll get everyone else's arguments?

[TheEdge]

I think what you're missing Edge, is that unlike water, mowing your own lawn, or changing your oil, GAMES AREN'T FREE. You keep insisting that people are goofy for paying for games when they're readily available for free. But that's a flawed argument, because while you can get games for free, the practice is, technically, illegal.

And I thought Melf's Ferrari example was perfect. Maybe try to better understand that example and you'll get everyone else's arguments?

lol, I feel like I'm in a schizophrenic ward at the asylum. Didn't you agree with me before about using the DC's emulation talents instead of buying overpriced non-existent digital merchandise from PS3 / 360 / Wii virtual consoles????


My suggestion from the beginning is use the power of emulators on the Dreamcast instead of getting ripped off on the virtual console. Period. End of story. Finito. I don't know how many times I have to repeat it.

[InternalPrimate]

lol, I feel like I'm in a schizophrenic ward at the asylum. Didn't you agree with me before about using the DC's emulation talents instead of buying overpriced non-existent digital merchandise from PS3 / 360 / Wii virtual consoles????

I never agreed with your point that you should use emulators instead of VC/Live Arcade/PSN, I agreed that Nester DC is awesome. It is. I mainly used it for games I own and fan translated games (like Earthbound Zero). And while we're on the subject of my flip-flopping on the topic, I've always been this way :D I completely agreed with Lars Ulrich during the whole Napster debacle, yet regularly downloaded free music from bands I was on the fence with. My hypocracy on the topic knows no bounds :)

I am an avid VC downloader though. For games that I already own, or can get physical copies of, I ignore the service. But for games like Alien Soldier, Sin & Punishment, or ANY TG-16 game, I love the service. I can see both sides of this argument, and just think you should too. There's no reason to get worked up about this topic. I mean, it's not like we're in the Politics thread :p

[TheEdge]

I see no point in voluntarily getting taken to the cleaners.

[MrMatthews]

Again, is $5 to $10 for a game really that ridiculous? You probably spend about that much on lunch everyday. If Nintendo was charging $25 for Super Mario RPG, that'd be one thing - but it's $8. Pennies compared to what the actual cart will cost on Ebay. Plus, downloading it from the VC, you're pretty much assured that it's a quality emulation. No muss, no fuss.

[InternalPrimate]

There's no doubt that some (maybe the majority) of VC prices are a rip-off. $5 for Super Mario Bros. or $8 for Sonic the Hedgehog is way too much. But there are some rather large notable exceptions, like MrMatthews's example above. And again, Suikoden for $5.99?! That's just spoiling us.

[MrMatthews]

I just did some quick math - I have spent about $140 on 19 from Nintendo's VC. Considering the quality and relative scarcity of most of these games (and the fact that the $140 was spread out over nearly two years), I think this is pretty reasonable.

[Melf]

Yes, it does. It says that you haven't really bought anything. They are just allowing you to play an already free game thats on the web everywhere. Its not Nintendo's fault I must admit. If people are that lazy to pay for something thats free thats their own stupidity.

The only reason it's "free" is because other pirates have put the game up for download. That's like saying "why buy a TV at Walmart when a dude's giving them away in the back of his truck."



Examples:
Paying for Bottled Water
Paying someone to cut your yard when you have a lawnmower in the garage
Paying for someone to change your oil Poor examples, because:

1. No one has a copyright to water
2. You chose to let someone cut your lawn. What you're advocating is more akin to taking things from someone else's yard because it's cheaper than buying from Home Depot.
3. You chose to have someone to change your oil. No infringement was committed.


And I know your going to say "Well, thats the price of convenience" I beg to differ, convenience is going out for dinner every once in a while. Hiring a cook means your just lazy. The thing is, you're not hiring a cook here. You're raiding someone else's refrigerator because it's cheaper than cooking yourself or hiring a cook.

Justify it all you want: convenience - price, Nintendo price-gauging (I'm with you there) - it's still piracy. I'm not condemning you for pirating though. I just ask that you drop the pretenses and call it for what it is.


Ummmm, never said that it wasn't. Actually the only people that brought it up were the people who constantly make "straw man" arguments. We all know its piracy but if a company is too incompetent in this technological age to protect their intellectual property I believe its their own fault. How else should they protect it? They renew the copyright, go after pirates when possible - what else is there to do? Protecting an intellectual property is far different and more difficult than defending an actual physical asset.


1. I did suggest buying the actual carts. I mentioned that a few times throughout the debate.That alone is worth advocating. At least that's legit.


2. It is expensive. Especially for an electronic file that you can't hold or save and that will not accumulate value over time.

3. Stealing Ferrari's? I don't follow. Sounds like another straw man argument.How so? The principle is the same: "I steal it because I can't afford it." If gaming's too expensive, seeking another hobby may be in order.


ummm, things are pirated all the time and we still got both collections. I don't see the point here.I'd like to think that more would be released if people didn't outright pirate games. There's obviously a demand for them, or the VC wouldn't be so successful.

[Knuckle Duster]

The real issue stems from the fact that flea market prices don't weigh in against digital content distribution prices.

At around 10% of their initial market costs, the games themselves seem more than fair on paper. Especially since these games don't require you to get up off of your ass to get to play them and are officially endorsed. Sure I wish they were cheaper too. It's still a great convenience.

I think everyone should just shut up, hold hands, and pray to the omnipotent hedgehog overlord for a Radiant Silvergun release on all three consoles before the world ends...(We could all use the practice)

[gamevet]

Why do people pay money for old school games on their PS3 / XBOX360 / Wii?

This is so silly to me. Yesterday when I got home from work I went over to my Dreamcast popped in my NesterDC disc and played MegaMan2 for hours.

How much did it cost for every single NES, SMS, Genesis, TurboGrafx, SNES game ever created?

$14.99

Why did it cost $14.99? Cause thats how much it cost to buy the 100-Stack of CD-Rs I used to burn all these games with.

Also at Dreamcast-Talk.com some guy has been uploading NEOGEO-CD games that run perfectly on the DC.

So I implore you all, Stop throwing money down the drain. Get a stack of writeable CD's and start burning.

You could just buy a couple of CD-RW discs and softmod an old Xbox. ;)


I've only bought about 6 games off of LIVE and I like the added features that come with those games. You have leaderboards, you can compare your scores to those of your friends, and some titles offer online play. You can't do that with the emulated versions.

[17daysolderthannes]

Let me get this straight... you're participating on a forum dedicated to collecting antique 16-bit Sega games, and at the same time you're complaining about people throwing money down the drain? The mind boggles...

vintage Sega games are tangible and resellable, VC downloads are not.


I still don't get what the big deal is with a DC emulator in particular. First you have to go through the trouble, time, and cost of burning CD's and second the emulation won't be up to par as on a PC. (or MAC... or Linux PC... Or even XBOX)

As long as you have a decent computer (one that was top of the line about 6 years ago -for games up to 5th gen) you should be fine, particularly since all emulators really need is sufficient CPU reasourse and RAM.

Provided you have a decent gamepad for your computer. (not to mention a USB adaptor for your favorite console pad, or old DA-15 gameport pad) The Gravis Xterminator is an excellent jack of all trades controller.

The main advantages are:
1) completeness, you can't accidentally delete or corrupt a game once its on the disc (unless maybe you scratch it)

2) convenience: don't have to start a computer, log on, etc., just wait about 10 seconds to boot and then go straight to the game you want with just the controller

3) accuracy: while the emulator may be glitchy on some games, many games are EXTREMELY close to playing it on a real NES because you are using composite cables on a CRT TV (well, if you are using composite cables on a CRT TV) as opposed to a computer monitor that is essentially a mega-high definition TV.


Again, is $5 to $10 for a game really that ridiculous? You probably spend about that much on lunch everyday. If Nintendo was charging $25 for Super Mario RPG, that'd be one thing - but it's $8. Pennies compared to what the actual cart will cost on Ebay. Plus, downloading it from the VC, you're pretty much assured that it's a quality emulation. No muss, no fuss.

YES! $5 is a RIP OFF for something that costs Nintendo 4¢ to send you. There is no production, no storage, no retail markup, nothing, just whatever the licensing fee and the bandwith costs, which is probably negligible for each game. You are probably putting about $4.95 straight into Nintendo's pocket for something they had no part in creating (in most cases) and was meant to be out of production a long time ago. This is nothing but exploitation and an excuse to prosecute ROM sites by douchebags in suits sitting on their money bags. I have no problem with corporations making money, even lots of it, but I do have a problem when they go about it in a douchebag way.


I just did some quick math - I have spent about $140 on 19 from Nintendo's VC. Considering the quality and relative scarcity of most of these games (and the fact that the $140 was spread out over nearly two years), I think this is pretty reasonable.

Odds are I own most of those games and paid alot less for each unit, and if pressed, I could resell them and get all or even more money back for them, whereas you are out $140 no matter what.


The real issue stems from the fact that flea market prices don't weigh in against digital content distribution prices.

At around 10% of their initial market costs, the games themselves seem more than fair on paper. Especially since these games don't require you to get up off of your ass to get to play them and are officially endorsed. Sure I wish they were cheaper too. It's still a great convenience.

I think everyone should just shut up, hold hands, and pray to the omnipotent hedgehog overlord for a Radiant Silvergun release on all three consoles before the world ends...(We could all use the practice)

You're right, flea markets don't weigh in on digital download prices, digital downloads should be exponentially cheaper than flea market cartridges because THERE IS NO PHYSICAL MEDIA. Digital downloads cost almost NOTHING to transfer, NES games should be 99¢ just like music downloads, they might even make a bigger profit that way since more people would download at that price, they might even just download a complete set, whereas now they are buying Mario 3 and Sonic 2 and saying "fuck it."


You could just buy a couple of CD-RW discs and softmod an old Xbox. ;)


I've only bought about 6 games off of LIVE and I like the added features that come with those games. You have leaderboards, you can compare your scores to those of your friends, and some titles offer online play. You can't do that with the emulated versions.

Hey, wanna know a secret about XBLA? take your hard drive, put it on a friend's 360, and don't connect to the internet. See what happens. Now think about what will happen when your XBOX breaks and Live isn't around anymore...you'll be screwed out of every game you bought. Someone should make a class action lawsuit against Microsoft over this shit (as well as Wii and PS3 as well, my friend actually sent in his Wii for warranty replacement and they didn't transfer his VC downloads).

[17daysolderthannes]

For the most part I assume no, but if you were to look at anything TheEdge posted, you would think this because he's basically furthering the "noob standard" philosophy which usually comes across as "zomg! look at this, i can steal gamez! lol DLC suxorz!" And I can agree with where he is coming from, I just think he's an idiot for at least 3 times recommending and at least twice LINKING to a site which clearly gos against this:

"• While emulation discussion is permitted due to its importance in the areas of archiving and historical documentation of the gaming industry, no ISO trading, ROM begging, bootlegging, copyright infringement, or assistance with any of these is permitted – for example warez FTP site details. Out of respect to retrogaming stores, game developers, and growing legal concerns, discussion about the obtaining of illegal ROMs is prohibited. Illegal ROMs are defined as any ROM, regardless of age, that has been copyrighted in the past 100 years. Threads discussing the location or acquiring of ROMs and/or illegal (pirated) software will be locked per the discretion of a forum moderator or administrator. As companies continue to release retro games through virtual releases or retro gaming packs for modern gaming systems, the threat of getting a cease-and-desist order grows. In order to preserve the gaming community we've all worked so hard to build, we ask that you respect Sega-16 and refrain from the discussion of illegal ROMs. It doesn't matter what is legal in your country, there are no exceptions to this rule.

Violators will be punished with temporary or permanent banning, depending on the severity of the offense."

Which IS in the forum rules.

I hate 'stupid' pirates. Can't you tell?



The xbox does not 'suck' because you do not know how to configure DHCP or Static IP addresses. Something a router would do with a guided piece of software anyway. They usually come with ridiculously easy to use install disks. Even if that isn't the case, It's still extremely easy to drop an xbox on a network, turn it on, and access it from a PC. You sound like you're just biased against it.

In actual fairness it already emulates most platforms that the DC can't handle, and can even run Mame exceptionally good. It's off the shelf nature makes it cheap to replace a hard drive, optical drive, and even add ram if you're a technically proficient.
Then there's the fact that you don't even need to crack it open for basic homebrew with a software modification when starting, icing on the cake.

It's controller's are USB derived, making them easy to hack for added keyboard/mice. It can run linux, and the XBMC software makes the overall package pretty much perfect for what you'd pay for it. No more than $50 used stock system, that can become a media player to stream AVI files off your network. Come on now.

Don't tell me what I do and don't know how to do, I obviously got it working or I wouldn't have an XBOX full of emulators and ROMs. I'm just saying it can be annoying for people that don't dick around with network connections all day (99% of people in other words). Say what you want, but I would try for like 30 minutes and just get errors, then out of nowhere, I would input the same damn numbers and it would work fine. Maybe its Microsoft's way of saying "I hate Apple Computers."

If you read what I said, I praised the XBOX as an emulation platform, but as an unmodded system, the XBOX blows hard. We can't give XBOXes away at Play N Trade, we had to drop the price to $40 and they still wouldn't move, on the other hand, PS2s fly off the shelf at $70.

As for piracy discussion, I do agree with what you're saying, and I don't think TheEdge is quite on the same page.

Emulation is great, doing it on consoles is great, but posting links here can get the forum in trouble as well as other things. If you want to talk piracy and post links, go to snesorama.us or pspisoz.com where they want to take that kind of risk, but not here (btw, those are forums, I am not linking directly to ROM sites, there is no way you can get in trouble for linking to a place that links to ROMs, thats just retarded).

Discussing emulation is A OK in my book, but for legal reasons there is a place for going further to post links, etc. and its called PM or another forum.


Oh, and I would just like to say to all of those saying emulators are unreliable or ROMs might be bad, follow these steps:

1) read up on the emulators you are using, most sites post WAY outdated versions or may not even list the latest and greatest emulators

2) always download the correct region and a "tested/working" copy. US games are denoted with a [U], European games are denoted with a [E], and Japanese games are denoted with a [J]. Sometimes games are also denoted as [JUE] or [W] meaning "World." Working/tested roms will usually be denoted with a [!], but not always since usually japanese and european games will not be tested either way (at least not on the sites I use). Avoid roms with [b] notations as that means "bad dump" which means it will almost certainly have problems. You also might want to avoid [h] games which mean they are hacked (usually with extra lives or something) or [t] which means they have a "trainer" (an option menu that lets you add extra lives, very game genie like). The [a] denotation, however, just means an alternate working dump, and is fine if the standard [!] is a broken link.

If you are trying to use MAME (which is very noob resistant, try to find a friend to show you, that is the easiest way), you will always have to find the most universal form of the game, usually the world version. Try to download from a site that lists the real name of the game (not just the name of the zip file) and shows a file size. Usually the largest file will be full game and others are just modifications for each variant. Sometimes you will have to look for alternate titles, like Bust a Move will be under Puzzle Bobble, etc. Some games will also need a bios file to run, such as Neo Geo. For this reason, I recommend using version .126 as all the newer versions (.130 for sure) gave me trouble with the common Neo Geo bios files.

[gamevet]

Hey, wanna know a secret about XBLA? take your hard drive, put it on a friend's 360, and don't connect to the internet. See what happens. Now think about what will happen when your XBOX breaks and Live isn't around anymore...you'll be screwed out of every game you bought. Someone should make a class action lawsuit against Microsoft over this shit (as well as Wii and PS3 as well, my friend actually sent in his Wii for warranty replacement and they didn't transfer his VC downloads).

I paid for the added features.

Even if my 360 dies and LIVE doesn't exist anymore, I can turn around and play those emulated titles. Yeah, it'll suck when titles like REZ HD and SFII HD won't work anymore, but it's not like I'm breaking the bank on those downloads, unless I was foolish enough to buy a ton of them.

I don't know if the PS3 downloads are messed up like those of the Wii and 360. The PS3 at least has the option of backing up those files on a portable HD drive.

[Knuckle Duster]

Don't tell me what I do and don't know how to do, I obviously got it working or I wouldn't have an XBOX full of emulators and ROMs.

Yeah, I apologize for the harshness of my original post.

Caffeine and a major dose of bullshit ideology tend to make me difficult. :)

[InternalPrimate]

Odds are I own most of those games and paid alot less for each unit, and if pressed, I could resell them and get all or even more money back for them, whereas you are out $140 no matter what.


You get a twofer here: :roll: :bull: You're missing the entire point of what MrMatthews said and using the tactics of a 9-year old to argue.

[Joe Redifer]

Here's something that TheEdge will like: I know someone who has purchased many VC games when he owns the real physical games AND his systems are hooked up and ready to play those real games at any time.

[17daysolderthannes]

You get a twofer here: :roll: :bull: You're missing the entire point of what MrMatthews said and using the tactics of a 9-year old to argue.

I guess 9 year olds are good at basic economics, lets see the options:

real hardware:

maintains value (maybe more, maybe less)
perfect accuracy
can be sold if money gets tight

illegal emulation:
free
can be very accurate
has additional features not found anywhere else (savestates, etc.)
could possibly lead to civil prosecution and fines (HIGHLY unlikely)

Wii VC:
total ripoff
totally fucked if you Wii is broken, even if Nintendo replaces it
accuracy is debatable (it ain't that great)
practically no additional features spare for a "pick up where you left off" save feature
all controller options SUCK
CANNOT be sold to recoup money if you decide you don't want a game anymore
many games will never be released due to licensing issues (movie based games, etc.)

it doesn't even take a 9 year old to see what a steaming pile of crap the Wii VC is. Even if Mario RPG costs $60, its frozen assets, its very unlikely that price will change much, Chrono Trigger sells for as much now as it did when it was new and it hasn't really changed at all since the 90's. If you suddenly realize you need that $60, throw it on ebay for 3 days and BAM! money back in your pocket. Wii VC on the other hand "oops, I spent $60 and now I'm going to starve today"


Here's something that TheEdge will like: I know someone who has purchased many VC games when he owns the real physical games AND his systems are hooked up and ready to play those real games at any time.

does he have brain damage? surely no one could be that stupid to re-buy a game that he has a working version of and could easily (AND LEGALLY!) emulate via PC, Dreamcast, XBOX, PSP, etc. for free. I can even understand buying compilation discs just for the little easter eggs and the pretty packaging, but Wii VC...pffft, gotta be retarded.

[Jesse813]

Why do people pay money for old school games on their PS3 / XBOX360 / Wii?

This is so silly to me. Yesterday when I got home from work I went over to my Dreamcast popped in my NesterDC disc and played MegaMan2 for hours.

How much did it cost for every single NES, SMS, Genesis, TurboGrafx, SNES game ever created?

$14.99

Why did it cost $14.99? Cause thats how much it cost to buy the 100-Stack of CD-Rs I used to burn all these games with.

Also at Dreamcast-Talk.com some guy has been uploading NEOGEO-CD games that run perfectly on the DC.

So I implore you all, Stop throwing money down the drain. Get a stack of writeable CD's and start burning.

I'm not a fan of ROMS or Emulators as I'd rather play the game on the Console hooked up to the TV and I don't feel like going through the process of hunting down files.

I'm also not a VC fan as I prefer my Genesis, SNES, and NES games on carts. I think its a good option however for people w/ a limited budget espcially for games like M.US.H.A., Alien Soldier, Gleylancer, Earthbound, Super Mario RPG, theres more but you all get the point.

[17daysolderthannes]

I paid for the added features.

Even if my 360 dies and LIVE doesn't exist anymore, I can turn around and play those emulated titles. Yeah, it'll suck when titles like REZ HD and SFII HD won't work anymore, but it's not like I'm breaking the bank on those downloads, unless I was foolish enough to buy a ton of them.

I don't know if the PS3 downloads are messed up like those of the Wii and 360. The PS3 at least has the option of backing up those files on a portable HD drive.

How can you prove you legally own the titles?

that's another thing I hate, they don't even so much as snail mail you an ownership card. If I have to pay $5 for fucking 99¢ Mario Bros., they can at least mail me a credit card-type ownership card saying "hey bitch, I own this shit" so down the road I can prove I own the game forever and always. Console makers can't just take back what is rightfully yours, which is why I think download-only software should almost be illegal. There should always be some kind of irrefutable physical evidence of the purchase, even if it doesn't contain the game data in and of itself.

[17daysolderthannes]

I'm not a fan of ROMS or Emulators as I'd rather play the game on the Console hooked up to the TV and I don't feel like going through the process of hunting down files.


Are you guys really having that hard of a time finding ROMs? Shit, name ANY game for almost any system (especially the big three: NES, SNES, Genesis) and I can get a rom of it in about 2 minutes, no problem. Sure, back in the day you could hunt for HOURS and still not get the rom you're looking for, but nowadays its cake. Even easier, just torrent a complete set, then all bases are covered.

BTW, at least for NES, apparently there is a legal AND free alternative to Wii VC:

www.virtualnes.com

the only downside is that the emulator isn't very accurate by purist standards (in other words, it doesn't smooth the graphics or simulate a CRT TV) and to configure a controller you have to jump through some hoops in DOS or something.

[Iron Lizard]

I could rattle off a ton of those sites though I don't need to get kicked off here. :)

[tomaitheous]

Even emulation in the name of posterity and research is subject to scrutiny.

Emulation itself isn't illegal. If it were, Nintendo and Sega wouldn't be able to 'emulate' the other chips in their own systems that weren't produced/owned by them. Even dumping your own carts isn't. Distributing is.

On a funny note, those NES games people 'pay' for on the VC are using the very same iNES format (you can tell by the specific header) that they so called 'illegal' emulators developed (or what Nintendo tried to argue).

The money they charge for VC emulation titles is ridiculous. Especially considering the quality of emulation. Same goes for XBLA. I bought SOR2 on XBLA in the beginning as sort of a novelty. What an over priced novelty item. The 'filters' looked like crap and the audio emulation had glitches.

But I'm glad for all the suckers.. err mindless consumers.. err good patrons who did purchase VC emulation titles :D Gave a boost of popularity for these old systems.

I swear, consumers really have gotten more complacent over the years.

[MrMatthews]

Wii VC:
1. total ripoff
2. totally fucked if you Wii is broken, even if Nintendo replaces it
3. accuracy is debatable (it ain't that great)
4. practically no additional features spare for a "pick up where you left off" save feature
5. all controller options SUCK
6. CANNOT be sold to recoup money if you decide you don't want a game anymore
7. many games will never be released due to licensing issues (movie based games, etc.)

1. Whatever
2. WTF? How do you figure? I actually have a bit of personal experience in this matter, and I did not get "fucked."
3. Okay, I've noticed a bit of tinniness in Mario Kart 64's music. It's not always 100% accurate emulation.
4. What difference does that make? How many extra features did the original games themselves have?
5. Well, you're an idiot.
6. Yeah, you can't resell downloaded VC games, but they probably add value to your system if you ever want to sell that
7. That's just a cold, hard statement of the nature of the 'biz. Can't fault Nintendo or anyone else for that, I suppose.

[17daysolderthannes]

1. Whatever
2. WTF? How do you figure? I actually have a bit of personal experience in this matter, and I did not get "fucked."
3. Okay, I've noticed a bit of tinniness in Mario Kart 64's music. It's not always 100% accurate emulation.
4. What difference does that make? How many extra features did the original games themselves have?
5. Well, you're an idiot.
6. Yeah, you can't resell downloaded VC games, but they probably add value to your system if you ever want to sell that
7. That's just a cold, hard statement of the nature of the 'biz. Can't fault Nintendo or anyone else for that, I suppose.

1. yeah, it is
2. well, my friend's Wii wouldn't read dual layer discs, so Nintendo sent him another one, and they definitely didn't give him his downloaded games
3. fair enough
4. none, but I'm just point out that if you're going to emulate, the "illegal" ones offer alot more
5. lets see: Wiimote=garbage, Wii classic controller and Hori digital controller=SNES style garbage (I HATE SNES controllers), Gamecube controller=garbage (you have to use the worlds smallest d-pad, and its a cross-style to boot!), the only GOOD option is the Hori joystick, and that would be very unwieldy for some games.
6. Allegedly you are supposed to wipe your system if you sell it, but I don't know if that's actually a legal truth or Nintendo bullshit. Either way, its unlikely you'll find a Wii demanding grandma that wants to play Musha AND pay the original VC price. On the other hand, I could buy a real cart, play it, then sell it again and only lose roughly eBay fees and a couple bucks for shipping.
7. nature of the biz or not, you'll never see NBA JAM on VC, and that alone is worth ignoring it completely.

[Flygon]

Look, if you ask me, downloading a ROM and getting a cartridge is no different, because the developer gets no more moeny from either option anyway. It is simple really.

It only really starts to get complicated when you involve the VC and so on, but in honest fact, I'd rather download a ROM anyway due to afforminated reasons that te VC is a ripoff and that you have no gurantee of keeping the game at all if something goes wrong. However, I am going to admit that the disks with multiple games in it should be brought, simply because you have a gurantee that you won't loose the games.

So why do I download ROM's? Well, I have no money, no job (I don't wanna go to the level of working for Maccas, expessially because nowhere else will be employing) and the fact that ROM's are the most reliable format anyway.

So I admit, my argument points out the multigame disks do pretty much force you to get them so you can play the games, but the fact is, not all the games come out on them, so it is most sensible to get a ROM. This is why I think copyright needs a slight do-over, simply because it makes no sense in some areas.

Also, if this post reads badly, I am sorry, I am half asleep, but at least I am honest.

[TheEdge]

I guess 9 year olds are good at basic economics, lets see the options:

real hardware:

maintains value (maybe more, maybe less)
perfect accuracy
can be sold if money gets tight

illegal emulation:
free
can be very accurate
has additional features not found anywhere else (savestates, etc.)
could possibly lead to civil prosecution and fines (HIGHLY unlikely)

Wii VC:
total ripoff
totally fucked if you Wii is broken, even if Nintendo replaces it
accuracy is debatable (it ain't that great)
practically no additional features spare for a "pick up where you left off" save feature
all controller options SUCK
CANNOT be sold to recoup money if you decide you don't want a game anymore
many games will never be released due to licensing issues (movie based games, etc.)

it doesn't even take a 9 year old to see what a steaming pile of crap the Wii VC is. Even if Mario RPG costs $60, its frozen assets, its very unlikely that price will change much, Chrono Trigger sells for as much now as it did when it was new and it hasn't really changed at all since the 90's. If you suddenly realize you need that $60, throw it on ebay for 3 days and BAM! money back in your pocket. Wii VC on the other hand "oops, I spent $60 and now I'm going to starve today"



does he have brain damage? surely no one could be that stupid to re-buy a game that he has a working version of and could easily (AND LEGALLY!) emulate via PC, Dreamcast, XBOX, PSP, etc. for free. I can even understand buying compilation discs just for the little easter eggs and the pretty packaging, but Wii VC...pffft, gotta be retarded.

Wow, amazing points here.


I think that most people who have already been ripped off by VC / XBL have to defend their nonsensical waste of money. Thats why we are seeing such silly counter arguments. Like how "difficult" it is to burn a CD. Wow, hilarious. Or how its "Its soooo time consuming" to hunt down these roms even though there are 1000 sites / torrents.

Or how you have to "manual put together these compilations", lol, which you don't people have already done it for you.

Like I said before, I can't blame Xbox, Nintendo, or Sony. If people are silly enough to throw money into the wind / fire / off a cliff / down the drain when there is a wealth of free compilations and single titles online. Then its their own dam fault.


Too bad they got scammed.



Here's something that TheEdge will like: I know someone who has purchased many VC games when he owns the real physical games AND his systems are hooked up and ready to play those real games at any time.

Pick one:

wind / fire / off a cliff / down the drain

Which one do you believe he threw all his money into?

[MrMatthews]

You know what? You're right. I'm ashamed of not downloading pirated game emulations of questionable quality to a device that will either require me to stumble through the game using the keyboard or to buy a new controller completely.

But I think what you're really trying to say is that the VC is an excellent resource, in which case I totally agree with you.

[TheEdge]

You know what? You're right. I'm ashamed of not downloading pirated game emulations of questionable quality to a device that will either require me to stumble through the game using the keyboard or to buy a new controller completely.

But I think what you're really trying to say is that the VC is an excellent resource, in which case I totally agree with you.

See, these blatant deflection are somewhat silly.

The thread.....this topic.....is about using a console like the Dreamcast, Xbox, etc, to play FREE game compilations you download and burn to disc.

The suggestion in the thread......this topic......is to use one of the hundreds of pre-made compilations.

OR even better! buy a copy of one of the official made compilation. EVEN THAT would be cheaper than the virtual consoles.

Look at the new Genesis compilation. SOR3 is on it. The original cart itself is worth more than the price of the whole compilation put together!


:daze: I need another cup of coffee after that one.

[InternalPrimate]

See, these blatant deflection are somewhat silly.

The thread.....this topic.....is about using a console like the Dreamcast, Xbox, etc, to play FREE game compilations you download and burn to disc.

The suggestion in the thread......this topic......is to use one of the hundreds of pre-made compilations.

OR even better! buy a copy of one of the official made compilation. EVEN THAT would be cheaper than the virtual consoles.

Look at the new Genesis compilation. SOR3 is on it. The original cart itself is worth more than the price of the whole compilation put together!


:daze: I need another cup of coffee after that one.


I still think you're missing everyone's point Edge. Anything is free as long as you steal it. You're implying that anyone who doesn't steal is getting scammed. Shouldn't it be the reverse?

[TheEdge]

I still think you're missing everyone's point Edge. Anything is free as long as you steal it. You're implying that anyone who doesn't steal is getting scammed. Shouldn't it be the reverse?

IP, I'm not saying or implying that at all.

AGAIN....I will repreat this one more time.......My suggestion is that instead of tossing money at a Virtual console / XBL and getting nothing for it except an overpriced electronic file, IMO people should buy the official compilations (I.E. Taito, Midway, Sega, Neogeo) OR do what I do and download and burn the FREE pre-made compilations for the Dreamcast / Xbox.

NOTE: Buying things you can't physically hold is IMO a bad idea and a waste a cash.

:daze: going to get another cup of coffee now.

[InternalPrimate]

burn the FREE pre-made compilations for the Dreamcast / Xbox.
You do understand this is what I'm talking about, right? No matter how awesome emulation can be (and I'm right there with you on Nester DC SE), the act of downloading roms of games you don't already own is illegal in the same way stealing is.

As for compilation disks, I don't think anyone is arguing with you there. $29 for Sonic's Ultimate Genesis Collection gets you close to 50 games, which could cost around $450 through the VC. It's absolutely the better deal. But what if one only wants Ristar and doesn't own a Genesis? Maybe the $8 option ends up looking sweeter than buying a Genesis, an xbox, a Dreamcast, or The Ultimate Collection. This is why the VC is a decent option. Plus the rare games like Alien Soldier.

I also need another cup of coffee :D

[MrMatthews]

Let's just all go to Starbuck's. I'll buy this time as long as Edge picks up the next one.

[TheEdge]

You do understand this is what I'm talking about, right? No matter how awesome emulation can be (and I'm right there with you on Nester DC SE), the act of downloading roms of games you don't already own is illegal in the same way stealing is.

As for compilation disks, I don't think anyone is arguing with you there. $29 for Sonic's Ultimate Genesis Collection gets you close to 50 games, which could cost around $450 through the VC. It's absolutely the better deal. But what if one only wants Ristar and doesn't own a Genesis? Maybe the $8 option ends up looking sweeter than buying a Genesis, an xbox, a Dreamcast, or The Ultimate Collection. This is why the VC is a decent option. Plus the rare games like Alien Soldier.

First off, no one has ever debated the illegality of roms since this thread started. Yes, they are illegal. COMPLETELY IRRELAVENT.................

And no the Virtual Console is not a good deal because as 17days has stated its not a physical copy and if the Wii breaks or a new system comes out then bye, bye, money.

Might as well wait for the ebay price to go down on the cart or grab the rom.

I can't believe I even have to respond to this.

[RowdyRodimus]

Edge, I agree with your proposals and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

[TheEdge]

Edge, I agree with your proposals and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

Holy crap, sometimes I think I would have a better conversation talking to a bucket of wet cement.

:daze:

[MrMatthews]

Oh, Edge. You and your ways.

[InternalPrimate]

First off, no one has ever debated the illegality of roms since this thread started. Yes, they are illegal. COMPLETELY IRRELAVENT.................

And no the Virtual Console is not a good deal because as 17days has stated its not a physical copy and if the Wii breaks or a new system comes out then bye, bye, money.

Might as well wait for the ebay price to go down on the cart or grab the rom.

I can't believe I even have to respond to this.

No reason to get agitated, this is a complex discussion.

17Days suggested that you lose your VC games if your console is replaced, but I'd like to challenge that theory. After all, until just a couple days ago, Nintendo's whole memory solution was "cleaning out your fridge", which consisted of DELETING your games from your console and then redownloading them later. I'm willing to bet all of my savings (don't worry, it isn't much) that Nintendo can find all of your downloads based on each consoles serial number, and allow you to redownload your games.

Also, if a new system comes out, you'll still get to keep your VC games. VC games are saved onto the Wii's onboard memory, or now SD cards. Both of which DO NOT REQUIRE ONLINE SERVICE TO PLAY. I think 17days was referring to the 360, which has a different Arcade structure.

And finally, the legality of roms is entirely relevant in this discussion. You're advising people to bypass game companies and download free roms. The legality of roms is the ENTIRE point of anyone here who disagrees with you.

[TheEdge]

Do I really have to repeat my stance again?

Ok, this time in number order

1. Don't buy VC console games, download and burn DC rom compilations or buy the official compilations

2. Buy things you can hold. If you just spent money for something and you can't touch it. You got ripped off.



And finally, the legality of roms is entirely relevant in this discussion. You're advising people to bypass game companies and download free roms. The legality of roms is the ENTIRE point of anyone here who disagrees with you.

No, people are disagreeing with me because I'm telling them that they are getting ripped off and they have to defend their purchase. Which its very hard to do since they have been price gouged and given a non-existent electronic file on a console that they are going to replace in a few years.

Debating the illegality of roms is completely irrelevant to this thread. If people really feel the strong sense of morality pulling them away from taking part in these online files then each to his own.

But remember.

The rules are for fools.

Example = Scooter Libby

[MrMatthews]

2. Buy things you can hold. If you just spent money for something and you can't touch it. You got ripped off.
.


Uh... Edge? You know that when you download a free ROM you're STILL not getting a physical copy, right? Burning it to a disc is the same as saving an VC game to an SD card.

So there goes that argument.

[FoxHound]

Uh... Edge? You know that when you download a free ROM you're STILL not getting a physical copy, right? Burning it to a disc is the same as saving an VC game to an SD card.

So there goes that argument.

Not to go off topic, but You just gave me a idea, I am going to make mini stickers of NES carts for my SD card(s) that i use for my Wii. I going to make a separate thread on this..:o

[TheEdge]

Uh... Edge? You know that when you download a free ROM you're STILL not getting a physical copy, right? Burning it to a disc is the same as saving an VC game to an SD card.

So there goes that argument.

Well, actually yes it is, when I burn it to disc that's a physical copy. Also I'm not paying anything for it. That's the whole point of the discussion. :confused: Why do people volunteer to be ripped off? If you can just buy the Cart / Official Compilation / or burn it yourself?


Not to go off topic, but You just gave me a idea, I am going to make mini stickers of NES carts for my SD card(s) that i use for my Wii. I going to make a separate thread on this..:o

Well, that's good, at least some progress is coming of this.

[InternalPrimate]

Why do people volunteer to be ripped off? If you can just buy the Cart / Official Compilation / or burn it yourself?


To directly answer this question:

1. Not everyone has the original console. For example, I don't own a TG-16, so I jumped at the chance of paying $8 for Ys Books I & II. It's less expensive, if you already own a Wii, to buy an $8 VC game than to buy a console and the original cart.

2. Not every game is on an official compilation. Like Super Mario RPG.

3. Burning a game yourself, again, is illegal. I'm not saying I've never done it, because as I've said, I dig Nester DC SE, but it is what it is.

[Metal_Sonic]

Holy crap, sometimes I think I would have a better conversation talking to a bucket of wet cement.

:daze:

IRONY!

[MrMatthews]

Well, that's good, at least some progress is coming of this.

Woah woah. Hang on there, Beakman. What "progress" did you really expect? You're telling a bunch of video game enthusiasts that there are free alternatives to downloadable games.

Quick show of hands from all you current gen console owners out there that DIDN'T know that you can download roms for free.

That's what I thought. So obviously any of us who use XBLA or the VC are aware of the alternatives, and yet use these services anyway.

Maybe this thread is better suited on Nintendo's own boards - maybe you can catch some of those casual gamers before they spend millions of dollars on Ice Climber and Donkey Kong.

[TheEdge]

To directly answer this question:

1. Not everyone has the original console. For example, I don't own a TG-16, so I jumped at the chance of paying $8 for Ys Books I & II. It's less expensive, if you already own a Wii, to buy an $8 VC game than to buy a console and the original cart.

2. Not every game is on an official compilation. Like Super Mario RPG.

3. Burning a game yourself, again, is illegal. I'm not saying I've never done it, because as I've said, I dig Nester DC SE, but it is what it is.

Well, I think I've said this before in the past posts but since I already repeated myself 1000 times in this thread we might as well do it all over again.

I own a NES. I don't have all the games for it, nor do I have any room to connect my original NES. Thats why I use the FREE Dreamcast compilation. It doesn't cost me that much money at all. How much does 1 CD-R cost if a 100 CD-R pack costs $14.99??

Your right, not every game is on the official compilations. Hence why you need to bypass the Ebay price gougers and find other alternatives. If you think $8 dollars for an electronic file that is free online is a good price for you.

Then each to his own.


Woah woah. Hang on there, Beakman. What "progress" did you really expect? You're telling a bunch of video game enthusiasts that there are free alternatives to downloadable games.

Quick show of hands from all you current gen console owners out there that DIDN'T know that you can download roms for free.

That's what I thought. So obviously any of us who use XBLA or the VC are aware of the alternatives, and yet use these services anyway.

Maybe this thread is better suited on Nintendo's own boards - maybe you can catch some of those casual gamers before they spend millions of dollars on Ice Climber and Donkey Kong.

So, when you start up your fireplace at home, do you use $20 dollar bills or $50 dollar bills?

[Tanegashima]

Christ almighty, do we constantly need to question something so trivial. DO IT or DON'T! Downloading vs. physical vs. pirating vs. etc. isn't the philosophical conflict of our age. Just do want you want. Jeeze.

[InternalPrimate]

Well, I think I've said this before in the past posts but since I already repeated myself 1000 times in this thread we might as well do it all over again.

I own a NES. I don't have all the games for it, nor do I have any room to connect my original NES. Thats why I use the FREE Dreamcast compilation. It doesn't cost me that much money at all. How much does 1 CD-R cost if a 100 CD-R pack costs $14.99??

Your right, not every game is on the official compilations. Hence why you need to bypass the Ebay price gougers and find other alternatives. If you think $8 dollars for an electronic file that is free online is a good price for you.

Then each to his own.




You're still missing the point Edge, you keep saying "the FREE Dreamcast compilation", but there is no such official thing. Again, it's illegal. I'm not at all condemning you, but how can you not see the flaw in your argument?

[TheEdge]

Christ almighty, do we constantly need to question something so trivial. DO IT or DON'T! Downloading vs. physical vs. pirating vs. etc. isn't the philosophical conflict of our age. Just do want you want. Jeeze.

Thank you, Thats what I have been saying. This whole thread is a open suggestion to people that still want the games but don't have money to throw around.

I didn't want to get dragged into a metaphysical discussion about the morality of video game collecting.




You're still missing the point Edge, you keep saying "the FREE Dreamcast compilation", but there is no such official thing. Again, it's illegal. I'm not at all condemning you, but how can you not see the flaw in your argument?


Ok, its not official. Neither is this forum. your point?

Ok, its illegal? and? That still has no relavence with the topic. As Tanegashima said....."DO IT or DON'T!"

[Tanegashima]

Exactly, if you get caught and prosecuted or whatever, its your damn problem. I still prefer to own an actual copy of the game on an actual console and simply refuse to download because I want to play the game on the system it was meant to be played.

Which means I am sacrificing owning certain games, but I'd rather have the real deal.

[RowdyRodimus]

Ok, let's compromise. You are both right. It is free for the download, but the materials you need to make it run cost you a little bit. Still, that cost is minimal compared to buying, say a Wii (since VC is pretty much the only good thing on it), and then paying for the ROMs.

Wii=$250
1 VC game=$8
total-$258

Dreamcast=$25
Blank CD=$.15
total-$25.15

I didn't add internet charges because you have to have them for both. Plus, the fact that The BIG 3 only release what they want to release. Super Mario Bros. as a Christmas surprise the year before last? Yeah, it was a great gift in 1985, but don't make me pay $5 for it in 2007 and say it's a gift like gool old Reggie did.

[TheEdge]

Exactly, if you get caught and prosecuted or whatever, its your damn problem. I still prefer to own an actual copy of the game on an actual console and simply refuse to download because I want to play the game on the system it was meant to be played.

Which means I am sacrificing owning certain games, but I'd rather have the real deal.

I agree.

I could have downloaded and burned every single Dreamcast game 10 times over already but instead I purchased them, many of which I bought "brand new factory sealed" :cool: Nothing like a brand new GD-R right out of the package!

I also moved back to my Genesis collection as well. I got a ton of old carts I've been meaning to get. I actually paid $19 for Grind Stormer. No box though. That kind of pissed me off but whatever.

The main problem I have is that I don't have a TG-16, SMS, or room for my NES so thats why I had to get the Dreamcast Compilations.

You gotta do, what you gotta do, you know?

[InternalPrimate]

*Head explodes after hearing "Dreamcast Compilations" (no such thing) so many times*


Wii=$250
1 VC game=$8
total-$258

Dreamcast=$25
Blank CD=$.15
total-$25.15

We're all on different pages here. I give up. But before I go, I just want to make it clear one more time: Nester DC SE is pretty cool.

[Metal_Sonic]

Ok, let's compromise. You are both right. It is free for the download, but the materials you need to make it run cost you a little bit. Still, that cost is minimal compared to buying, say a Wii (since VC is pretty much the only good thing on it), and then paying for the ROMs.

*sigh* Wow.....

[MrMatthews]

Just do want you want. Jeeze.

If only that was allowed by some people.

[Knuckle Duster]

Pirating is easy and cheap. Regardless if it's roms, or currently released new titles. It's the same difference. It's illegal.

Preaching about buying compilations as opposed to downloading overly expensive VC/XBLA/PSN titles, and then to further the argument that it would be even better to outright steal the titles instead, if legal compilations aren't an option.

Then trying to mask the theft with some moral justification related to defending ones "right" to "physically handle what you pay for" or "helping out my fellow forum members by educating them" seems like a pathetic attempt to fringe on abusing the board's ToS while flaunting an arrogance to the point that everyone else "needs to be educated on the matter".

It's an insult to everyone's intelligence.

Again...
Pirating is easy and cheap.
No arguments to that.

However, there is a place for it, and I would assume that place is nowhere near Sega-16.

Edge quit linking to rom compilations. You did it twice here.
It's stupid, and leads to shit flinging by lurkers with bad intentions.

[jerry coeurl]

*sigh* Wow.....

He's got a point. The Wii sucks; if not for VC I wouldn't have played it at all.

[Jesse813]

Are you guys really having that hard of a time finding ROMs? Shit, name ANY game for almost any system (especially the big three: NES, SNES, Genesis) and I can get a rom of it in about 2 minutes, no problem. Sure, back in the day you could hunt for HOURS and still not get the rom you're looking for, but nowadays its cake. Even easier, just torrent a complete set, then all bases are covered.

BTW, at least for NES, apparently there is a legal AND free alternative to Wii VC:

www.virtualnes.com

the only downside is that the emulator isn't very accurate by purist standards (in other words, it doesn't smooth the graphics or simulate a CRT TV) and to configure a controller you have to jump through some hoops in DOS or something.

I never said I was having hard time finding them simply that I don't feel like looking for them as I prefer the Cart/CD/DVD versions, and I prefer a TV screen over a PC Monitor.

[TheEdge]

I never said I was having hard time finding them simply that I don't feel like looking for them as I prefer the Cart/CD/DVD versions, and I prefer a TV screen over a PC Monitor.

I agree! Thats why I use the Free Dreamcast Compilation, I can play it on my TV instead of my monitor.

[InternalPrimate]

Thats why I use the Free Dreamcast Compilation

It makes me cringe everytime you refer to a disc you burned with an NES emulator and a set of roms as "the Free Dreamcast Compilation". That would be like me creating a torrent where I just dumped every single Beatles MP3 into, and went around saying "Hey guys, you should check out this really great Free Beatles Compilation!" And then following it up with, "I don't get why people buy actual Beatles CD's, which cost between $8 and $20, when they can just download this super sweet free compilation! What are they, a bunch of boners?"

[TheEdge]

It makes me cringe everytime you refer to a disc you burned with an NES emulator and a set of roms as "the Free Dreamcast Compilation". That would be like me creating a torrent where I just dumped every single Beatles MP3 into, and went around saying "Hey guys, you should check out this really great Free Beatles Compilation!" And then following it up with, "I don't get why people buy actual Beatles CD's, which cost between $8 and $20, when they can just download this super sweet free compilation! What are they, a bunch of boners?"

Well, its a compilation, its for the Dreamcast, and its free. Whats the problem?

Also Beatles CD's are good to buy because they are physical commodities. Now if you said "I want to buy 1 beatles song at a time in electronic form for $10 dollars a piece"then I would say your crazy and might as well download the torrent and burn your own CD.

[InternalPrimate]

I was going to go into a long explanation that when one buys a Beatles CD, he isn't buying a piece of circular plastic, but rather the music that is on that piece of circular plastic. The physical cd is a means to a product. But this conversation is obviously going nowhere, and it's not only starting to annoy others, but myself as well.

[TheEdge]

I was going to go into a long explanation that when one buys a Beatles CD, he isn't buying a piece of circular plastic, but rather the music that is on that piece of circular plastic. The physical cd is a means to a product. But this conversation is obviously going nowhere, and it's not only starting to annoy others, but myself as well.

Sorry to here that.

But before you go. A professionally made Beatles CD is worth the money. A electronic file floating in cyber-space is as common as the day is long. Why buy ice in the winter when you can reach out your window and grab some?

[InternalPrimate]

Why buy ice in the winter when you can reach out your window and grab some?


Whaaaaaaaaaat? I usually use my freezer. Call me kooky, but I have a problem putting ice from outside in my beverages :p

[TheEdge]

Whaaaaaaaaaat? I usually use my freezer. Call me kooky, but I have a problem putting ice from outside in my beverages :p

I new you'd come back - :cool:

[InternalPrimate]

"knew". Some Munn will lighten the mood:

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj216/iprimate858/olivia_munn_bikini_jamaica_02.jpg

[jerry coeurl]

Ugh. Munn isn't the worst looking chick I've ever seen, but her association with the most embarrassing television program I've ever witnessed (and, indeed, because of her very presence in said program) renders me unable to find her attractive.

She does have a fine ass, though.

[17daysolderthannes]

Sorry to here that.

But before you go. A professionally made Beatles CD is worth the money. A electronic file floating in cyber-space is as common as the day is long. Why buy ice in the winter when you can reach out your window and grab some?

I agree with this statement. Even though the data on the CD is the important part, the CD itself is physical evidence of ownership. I just can't get past the fact of how indefinite download-only software is. Like I've said, and keep saying, if my Wii explodes, my games are gone, the end. Sure, maybe if it happened tomorrow and I bitched at Nintendo 100 times they would give me my games on another Wii, but 10 years from now they'd be like "ha! fuck you!" If my Genesis explodes tomorrow, on the other hand, my cartridges are still safe and sound, and even if they cease to function, I could rub them in the face of anyone thinking of coming after me for "copyright infringing emulation." I have a very similar mentality as my sister does when it comes to spending money "I don't like buying things I can't keep," and download-only games will sooner or later be lost one way or another, its almost a guarantee.


I never said I was having hard time finding them simply that I don't feel like looking for them as I prefer the Cart/CD/DVD versions, and I prefer a TV screen over a PC Monitor.

While I too enjoy owning real hard copies, I have to blast you for that argument:

buying hard copies in a store:
drive to the store=gas money
hope they have it used or it is still available new
possibly leave with nothing
might be scratched and not work and AT LEAST require driving back to get it fixed or replaced
often have random load times for no reason (SF II on Capcom Classics, for example, WTF, that game is like 7 MB in arcade form)
almost never support save states or other features

buying copies online:
again, hope its in stock
possibly pay alot for fanboy price hiking
might get scammed
might not arrive as advertised (once got a "very good" game that had a case with mold growing on it)
have to wait a week or 2 or pay outrages overnight fees

downloading a ROM:
takes less than 2 minutes if you know what you're doing
usually about 99% accurate, again, if you know what you're doing
can accept any USB controller vs. being stuck with the official controllers
can use a number of graphic filters to make it near-high def without horrible modernized "HD Remix" bullshit (the rims in balrogs stage make me want to vomit)
can be played in excellent quality on a CRT TV with an s-video out (which almost all PCs have) or a dvi->composite out if you have a mac laptop
can sometimes be played online for free, even systems that were long before online play
can have all your games in one pile rather than swapping discs
can be piled into portable devices like a PSP or N-Gage or other cell phone

While I can't argue 100% against the "authentic" experience, I can tell you I play the ROM version of games I own about half the time. You just can't beat the features and convenience of it. Sure it takes a while to get the hang of the process, but now I can get anything almost instantly.


Pirating is easy and cheap. Regardless if it's roms, or currently released new titles. It's the same difference. It's illegal.

Preaching about buying compilations as opposed to downloading overly expensive VC/XBLA/PSN titles, and then to further the argument that it would be even better to outright steal the titles instead, if legal compilations aren't an option.

Then trying to mask the theft with some moral justification related to defending ones "right" to "physically handle what you pay for" or "helping out my fellow forum members by educating them" seems like a pathetic attempt to fringe on abusing the board's ToS while flaunting an arrogance to the point that everyone else "needs to be educated on the matter".

It's an insult to everyone's intelligence.

Again...
Pirating is easy and cheap.
No arguments to that.

However, there is a place for it, and I would assume that place is nowhere near Sega-16.

Edge quit linking to rom compilations. You did it twice here.
It's stupid, and leads to shit flinging by lurkers with bad intentions.

I think you are overreacting a little. Yeah, he shouldn't post rom download links directly like that, but its not like the FBI is going to shut down sega-16 tomorrow over it, and if you're keeping tabs, there are 1000's of copyright infringements all over this forum via unlicensed uses of various IPs. I believe there IS a substantial difference between downloading older games vs. new releases. New releases NEED to be paid for to support the industry, older games are mostly bought used which brings in ZERO dollars to the video game companies. While members of this forum tend to champion the games of the 90's, the most you will get from the majority of video game players is a "Oh yeah, I remember that game" but they won't dare buy it or even play it. If Nintendo games were still sold new, the sales would be exponentially lower than that of newer games, probably less than 2% of the market. I can tell you from experience, 99% of people that romulate would not pay even $3 for a vintage game even if ROMs didn't exist. I can tell you from experience, playing ROMs has caused me to find out about new franchises I never knew about and buy new games because of it (most notably SNK compilations).

[Elusive]

Hrm. *activates 17daysolderthannes post filter*


I agree with this statement. Even though the data on the CD is the important part, the CD itself is physical evidence of ownership. MY PROPERTY, MY RULES. I just can't get past the fact of how indefinite download-only software is. I expect my downloads to live forever, like those 650MB CD-Rs I burnt from the multipack. Like I've said, and keep saying, if my Wii explodes, my games are gone, the end. Sure, maybe if it happened tomorrow and I bitched at Nintendo 100 times they would give me my games on another Wii, but 10 years from now they'd be like "ha! fuck you!" I am afraid of speaking to the nice Customer Services people who are trained in situations exactly like these... If my Genesis explodes tomorrow, on the other hand, my cartridges are still safe and sound, and even if they cease to function, I could rub them in the face of anyone thinking of coming after me for "copyright infringing emulation." ...because you're not the boss of me!! haha fuck you authority faggots I have a very similar mentality as my sister does when it comes to spending money "I don't like buying things I can't keep," and download-only games will sooner or later be lost one way or another, its almost a guarantee. No, I've never lost anything IRL, ever. Why do you ask?


While I too enjoy owning real hard copies, I have to blast you for that argument:

buying hard copies in a store:
drive to the store=gas money[
hope they have it used or it is still available new
possibly leave with nothing
might be scratched and not work and AT LEAST require driving back to get it fixed or replaced
often have random load times for no reason (SF II on Capcom Classics, for example, WTF, that game is like 7 MB in arcade form)
almost never support save states or other features (i have never heard of an 'in game save function')

buying copies online:
again, hope its in stock
possibly pay alot for fanboy price hiking
might get scammed
might not arrive as advertised (once got a "very good" game that had a case with mold growing on it)
have to wait a week or 2 or pay outrages overnight fees

downloading a ROM:
takes less than 2 minutes if you know what you're doing
usually about 99% accurate, again, if you know what you're doing
can accept any USB controller vs. being stuck with the official controllers
can use a number of graphic filters to make it near-high def without horrible modernized "HD Remix" bullshit (the rims in balrogs stage make me want to vomit)
can be played in excellent quality on a CRT TV with an s-video out (which almost all PCs have) or a dvi->composite out if you have a mac laptop
can sometimes be played online for free, even systems that were long before online play
can have all your games in one pile rather than swapping discs
can be piled into portable devices like a PSP or N-Gage or other cell phone FAIR AND BALANCED. I REPORT, YOU DECIDE.

While I can't argue 100% against the "authentic" experience, I can tell you I play the ROM version of games I own about half the time. You just can't beat the features and convenience of it. Sure it takes a while to get the hang of the process, but now I can get anything almost instantly. Heh. I guess the 'real thing' is okay, maybe in small amounts, if you're into that sort of thing. Me? I want things NOW NOW NOW and FREE FREE FREE



words
I think you are overreacting a little. Yeah, he shouldn't post rom download links directly like that, but its not like the FBI is going to shut down sega-16 tomorrow over it, and if you're keeping tabs, there are 1000's of copyright infringements all over this forum via unlicensed uses of various IPs. what he's doing is illegal, fine, but you're also doing illegal stuff so it all cancels out in the end! I'm a legal genius! I believe there IS a substantial difference between downloading older games vs. new releases. New releases NEED to be paid for to support the industry, older games are mostly bought used which brings in ZERO dollars to the video game companies. While members of this forum tend to champion the games of the 90's, the most you will get from the majority of video game players is a "Oh yeah, I remember that game" but they won't dare buy it or even play it. If Nintendo games were still sold new, the sales would be exponentially lower than that of newer games, probably less than 2% of the market. I can tell you from experience, 99% of people that romulate would not pay even $3 for a vintage game even if ROMs didn't exist. I can tell you from experience, playing ROMs has caused me to find out about new franchises I never knew about and buy new games because of it (most notably SNK compilations).

LA LA LA CAN'T HEAR YOU SHUT UP YOU'RE WRONG *wall of fucking WORDS, DROWNS OUT THE LIES

[InternalPrimate]

Elusive, I'm going to spread some rep just so I can give you a +1.

[MrMatthews]

*says stuff about the risk involved in downloading games to the Wii, and the convenience of playing retro games via free emulation*

I actually think these were all perfectly valid points (except that Nintendo is actually addressing the storage issue right now, which will allow downloaded games to be stored on SD cards).

I think the pages and pages of bickering in this thread are all pretty silly. We're not talking about what games are better than others, or what consoles are better - we're talking about how we play the games that we all mutually love . . . and arguing about it, somehow.

17days may only play Mega Man 2 on his PC using a free rom downloaded from the internet.
TheEdge may only play Mega Man 2 on his Dreamcast compilation.
Internal Primate may only play Mega Man 2 on his Wii, which he downloaded for $5.
I may only play Mega Man 2 on the anniversary collection that I have for the GameCube.
And there's probably someone else out there that only plays the game using the original cartridge.

The point is that gamers today have a variety of options when it comes to playing video games. One way is not necessarily "better" than the other - it all comes down to personal taste. I could probably very easily get my computer all set up to play thousands of free games by downloading the emulators, and I'm sure there are plenty of people here who can point me in the right direction to find a very good controller. Or I can take Edge's advice and burn a CD for my Dreamcast (which I might very well do anyway, if only for arcade titles).

I purchase from the VC mainly because $5 to $10 is negligible considering the convenience of finding, downloading, and playing a wealth of great games. Value is completely subjective, and honestly, as long as the game is being played and enjoyed, it really doesn't matter how it was acquired, does it? $5 for Super Mario 3 is no more of a waste of money than your lunch today at McDonalds (and it lasts longer, too).

Edit: I was still typing this while Elusive was making his reply, so our "quote" schtick was completely independent ;)

[InternalPrimate]

I only own the Anniversary disk for GC, but I see where you're going with this MrMatthews :D

[TheEdge]

Also, I didn't even know about the rule against linking to rom sites. Even though it wasn't even a rom site its was more of an ISO site but whatever.

Also Melf and I took down those links since there was only 3 of them. So there.

Anyway back to TMNT 2: the arcade game.......later

[Jesse813]

17days may only play Mega Man 2 on his PC using a free rom downloaded from the internet.
TheEdge may only play Mega Man 2 on his Dreamcast compilation.
Internal Primate may only play Mega Man 2 on his Wii, which he downloaded for $5.
I may only play Mega Man 2 on the anniversary collection that I have for the GameCube.
And there's probably someone else out there that only plays the game using the original cartridge.

[/B]

that would be me

[MrMatthews]

There he is, guys! Let's get him!!!!

[cj iwakura]

There's exactly one reason I'm willing to burn a game onto a disc:

translation patches.

That's a justifiable reason to make use of emulation.


To clarify, I'd rather play the game on the system it was made for. Emulation can be good, but it can't beat the real thing.

[17daysolderthannes]

that would be me

that's me too when I have the time to find the game, wedge it into the system, and play it long enough to actually beat it or lose all of my lives (I'm talking about pre-save games and non-RPGs). Otherwise, I'll just fire it up on an emulator and play it for a few minutes and maybe save my place. I don't know where you people get these hours and hours on end to play games, the only reason I've been on this much lately is because I'm sick.


There's exactly one reason I'm willing to burn a game onto a disc:

translation patches.

That's a justifiable reason to make use of emulation.


To clarify, I'd rather play the game on the system it was made for. Emulation can be good, but it can't beat the real thing.

BUT ITS STILL ILLEGAL! OH NOES! ITS CONVENIENT AND DOESNT PILE MONEY ON NINTENDO'S FRONT PORCH! YOU SHOULD DIE!

at least that's what the Elusive, Internal Primate, and Mr. Matthews peanut gallery would say.



Bottom line for the peanut gallery:

If games are no longer made in physical form, I will stop buying games, end of story. If that means my game library is limited to THOUSANDS of existing games, so be it. If that Wii flash card ever somehow loses its data, there is NO WAY to prove prior ownership, not even a physical receipt. If they can't sell me games on my *reasonable* terms, then they won't get my business, end of story. Just like I won't buy a car from an asshole that wants to charge me for "paint undercoat sealant" (or whatever that BS is), I won't buy a download-only game. And I am by no means alone on this. Elusive, you can bend over and take whatever ass raping they want to dish, excuse me for blowing the bullshit whistle before I blew $100's into the air.

[MrMatthews]

BUT ITS STILL ILLEGAL! OH NOES! ITS CONVENIENT AND DOESNT PILE MONEY ON NINTENDO'S FRONT PORCH! YOU SHOULD DIE!

at least that's what the Elusive, Internal Primate, and Mr. Matthews peanut gallery would say.

It's curious that stating a preference one way or the other constitutes being part of a "peanut gallery." I guess anyone who disagrees with you about something as petty as this is automatically The Enemy

*twists handlebar mustache*

[17daysolderthannes]

It's curious that stating a preference one way or the other constitutes being part of a "peanut gallery." I guess anyone who disagrees with you about something as petty as this is automatically The Enemy

*twists handlebar mustache*

its not the disagreement, its the way the argument starts and the way rebuttals are made. I'm giving arguments for the way I think laws and video game sales should be, and you and others are just throwing shit at me with no argument other than "WELL THAT'S NOT THE WAY IT IS NOW! YOU FAIL!" Change never happens when people bend over and accept the way things are.

There is no way I can ever see the logic in downloading a Wii game when real cartridges and roms are so readily available. The one defense would be that you just HAVE to have a legally obtained copy and don't want to spend enough to buy the more fanboyed cartridges (because most expensive games aren't rare, just fanboyed to hell, FF VII for example, the second most manufactured PSX game).

As for pointing out how Sega-16 features many copyright infringements in its various images, all I'm pointing out is that it is nothing but hypocrisy to claim bloody murder over ROMs but then blatantly infringe another medium flippantly. Either you're all in, all out, or you have a reasonable, logical middle ground. Either you never infringe, always infringe, or do what I do and decide for yourself where the line should be drawn. The law is less black and white than all of you seem to think, its not really a crime until someone wants to prosecute you and the courts agree with the decision. I know some people are going to make retarded comments about that sentence, but if you think about it, its 100% true. If I take my friend's iPod, and he knows it, and he never does anything, its not really a crime. Douched out, yes, a criminal offense, no. Maybe he's just that rich he doesn't care, maybe he feels he owes me for a favor, who knows, but the bottom line is a crime is not a crime until someone wants to prosecute. Its only stealing if someone in an authoritative position says it is (like a judge or a police officer). And for the record, I don't think there has EVER been a court case against a party trading ROMs in a non-profit manner, meaning everyone that asserts ROMs are illegal are speculating based on their own unofficial interpretation of the law.

[cj iwakura]

I'm cool with downloading games in certain situations.


The Touhou shmups, for example. Those will never, ever, get a US release, and there's no reasonable way for a US player to get ahold of them.

Hence, downloading. (And I highly doubt ZUN really cares one way or another, since he made them himself, not for a company.)


Also, Steam has benefits.


I got Half-Life Episode 1 for free as a gift, and sometimes rare games pop up for download on the cheap. No problem with that here.

[InternalPrimate]

You hear that Elusive and MrMatthews? We're in an exclusive club! The Peanut Gallery! I feel like I'm in the Little Rascals. "No 17Days Allowed!" :D

I find it ironic that 17Days is complaining about the way people argue with him when he just stated, and I quote:
Elusive, you can bend over and take whatever ass raping they want to dish, excuse me for blowing the bullshit whistle before I blew $100's into the air. Maybe not throw stones in your glass house?

And again, maybe 17days missed this the first 30 times I said it, I dig NesterDC SE. I've referred to it as "awesome", "fine", "sweet", and "the tits". I just find it hard to reconcile the fact that some can't admit that the subject of emulation is morally ambiguous.

The funny thing is, I don't mind debating Edge, because I don't think we've been mean spirited with each other in a long time. We disagree, but I still respect the guy. You, on the other hand, 17days, are just a dick. The moderators can warn me or suspend me for that one. But hey, I calls em like I sees em.

ADDED: Just read this now:


If I take my friend's iPod, and he knows it, and he never does anything, its not really a crime. Douched out, yes, a criminal offense, no. Maybe he's just that rich he doesn't care, maybe he feels he owes me for a favor, who knows, but the bottom line is a crime is not a crime until someone wants to prosecute. Its only stealing if someone in an authoritative position says it is (like a judge or a police officer)

Holy cow that is bullshit.

[gamevet]

How can you prove you legally own the titles?

that's another thing I hate, they don't even so much as snail mail you an ownership card. If I have to pay $5 for fucking 99¢ Mario Bros., they can at least mail me a credit card-type ownership card saying "hey bitch, I own this shit" so down the road I can prove I own the game forever and always. Console makers can't just take back what is rightfully yours, which is why I think download-only software should almost be illegal. There should always be some kind of irrefutable physical evidence of the purchase, even if it doesn't contain the game data in and of itself.

Yeah, there's a bunch of those titles I wouldn't pay for, but when Sega offers REZ in HD, I'm paying for it. I already own REZ on the PS2, but it's not the same game.

I've probably spent more money in the arcades on games like Donkey Kong, Star Castle, Virtua Fighter and countless other titles. I have nothing to show from it, but great gaming memories; I can at least say my money supported the cause, while downloading emulated games did nothing to support the industry. When the Dreamcast's 3rd party support was not getting sales at retail, were you burning CDs or buying the games to support the effort?

I've emulated more than my fair share of games, but I still make an effort to support the companies that have put their money on the line. The industry was forced to provide the downloadable content the way it is, because too many people would just give it away (steal it) if they didn't.

[celticsfan]

Or how its "Its soooo time consuming" to hunt down these roms even though there are 1000 sites / torrents.

You don't have kids, do you Edge?

If you did, you'd know how time consuming simple things like going to the bathroom are, especially when the kids are screaming and your wife needs help in the kitchen.

What's so irritating is that you seem to belittle those of us who would, God forbid, PAY VC for games. For instance, I wanted to play Mario 64. Buying a used N64 and the game could cost me $30. Yeah, I could go online and try to find these roms, but by the time I find a Mac compatible N64 emulator and hunt down the rom, there goes my free time.

Or (novel idea), I pay $10 for the game, and make my life simpler.

I understand your point: if you have the means to hunt for illegal roms, and that's your thing, go for it. But I'm not throwing money down the drain by paying for this game legally. In fact, I'm saving so much time and hassle that it more than makes up for whatever dollar amount comes off my debit card.

So drop the know-it-all attitude, and realize that some of us don't have the free time that you have to burn "free Dreamcast compilations."

[MrMatthews]

I pay $10 for the game, and make my life simpler.

I understand your point: if you have the means to hunt for illegal roms, and that's your thing, go for it. But I'm not throwing money down the drain by paying for this game legally. In fact, I'm saving so much time and hassle that it more than makes up for whatever dollar amount comes off my debit card.



It's interesting that 17days and TheEdge bitch and moan about how many of us have been so cruel and thoughtless in our stubborn defense of the Virtual Console . . . and yet none of our arguments have really been more aggressive than this.

*shakes head*

[17daysolderthannes]

When the Dreamcast's 3rd party support was not getting sales at retail, were you burning CDs or buying the games to support the effort?


I didn't have a dreamcast, I was waiting for PS2 because I was currently buying games for my PSX emulator (commercial PSX emulator that only played real games: Connectix Virtual Game Station) and I wanted an actual system to play them on since, again, I knew the emulator would eventually become incompatible/obsolete and I would be fucked (anyone see a pattern here?). At the time, I probably wouldn't have been able to find the DC ISOs or know how to burn them, I was only 14~15 and no one knew how to do that stuff back then (meaning the people I knew). As a kid with no job, you take what you can get, if I can burn the games, I would probably save that oh so important gift opportunity for something else. Nowadays, if I want it, I buy it, end of story, and my collection is probably bigger than most of the people on this forum, so I don't know how I can be so antagonized when I have probably close to 500 licensed official games sitting in my house and 3 more on the way via eBay.

Oh, and as for the DLC vs. hard copy, if you know what you're doing, copying a downloaded game is MUCH easier than ripping a hard copy and then burning it. DLC is to prevent used sales, which to them is no different from emulation.


You don't have kids, do you Edge?

If you did, you'd know how time consuming simple things like going to the bathroom are, especially when the kids are screaming and your wife needs help in the kitchen.

What's so irritating is that you seem to belittle those of us who would, God forbid, PAY VC for games. For instance, I wanted to play Mario 64. Buying a used N64 and the game could cost me $30. Yeah, I could go online and try to find these roms, but by the time I find a Mac compatible N64 emulator and hunt down the rom, there goes my free time.

Or (novel idea), I pay $10 for the game, and make my life simpler.

I understand your point: if you have the means to hunt for illegal roms, and that's your thing, go for it. But I'm not throwing money down the drain by paying for this game legally. In fact, I'm saving so much time and hassle that it more than makes up for whatever dollar amount comes off my debit card.

So drop the know-it-all attitude, and realize that some of us don't have the free time that you have to burn "free Dreamcast compilations."

http://www.sixtyforce.com/

PM me for ROM info

how long did that take...5 seconds?

If you go to a forum that supports this stuff, you could be up and running in 24 hours with less than an hour invested in actual computer time (meaning make a post asking for help and wait for someone to respond). That versus fighting off every parent on earth for a Wii and then spending 10 minutes entering your credit card info into the Wii with that stupid wiimote, and then wait another 10 minutes for the slowest download ever. The Wii is only more convenient or faster if you absolutely have no idea how to use a computer beyond checking e-mail. Not saying you are "wrong" for using VC, but saying your argument is really weak, it sounds more like "I assume its difficult, so it is." If you only want one or two games, VC is fine, its pretty quick if that's all your looking for, but TheEdge's Nester DC file has EVERY NES game (right?), which would cost hundreds if not thousands, not to mention hours to actually download all of them. Like I've said before, if you are that set on being legal and supporting Nintendo, the Wii VC is your option, otherwise its all lame excuses. I know people with kids, they have time to download a file and burn it with discjuggler, I promise.


It's interesting that 17days and TheEdge bitch and moan about how many of us have been so cruel and thoughtless in our stubborn defense of the Virtual Console . . . and yet none of our arguments have really been more aggressive than this.

*shakes head*

Actually, Celticsfan's argument has been the most civil and the least "nah nanny boo boo you're a big dummy head." The worst is how hypocritical you are all being about it. You admit that you do it, but in the same sentence say how illegal and horrible it is that people do this. I would never support someone for downloading XBOX 360, PS3, or REAL Wii games, but if someone wants to download Mario 3, I think its been long enough. You can go on and on about what the law DOESN'T say about this (where is your legal support here, hmmm? I haven't seen any court cases or US laws posted that clearly identify this as illegal), but at the end of the day you're blowing hot air to either just be buzzkill asshats or because you just can't figure out how to do this so you have to slam others for doing it.

[MrMatthews]

Stop being so ignorant. Who is mindlessly "slamming" you for using roms? And why the hell is "I just want to" not a good enough reason for you to shut up about people using the VC? Is there a reason you're such an ass? Do you realize you're doing it?

[cj iwakura]

People who downloaded DC games instead of supporting Sega's last system make me feel ill, because they're part of the reason the system didn't last.

If you enjoy playing a game, you should buy it to support the developers, or don't play it at all.

[Iron Lizard]

Bleeh . I didn't know anyone who did that till it was long dead.

[RowdyRodimus]

People who downloaded DC games instead of supporting Sega's last system make me feel ill, because they're part of the reason the system didn't last.

There were a lot of reasons the Dreamcast didn't last, but I'd say people pirating the games was at or very near the bottom.

[kool kitty89]

17Days suggested that you lose your VC games if your console is replaced, but I'd like to challenge that theory.


A little info on the Wii in particular, firstly it's allways been able to use SD cards, just not more than 2 GB until recently, meaning you'd need to swap them out.

However, even with downloaeded games (VC and WiiWare) and saves backed up to SD, they still need to be loaded to the Wii (at least temporarily) to play them. (and save files must be on the 512 MB internal memory to be recognized) Also, you cannot transfer these games to another Wii using an SD back-up. (which would make piracy very easy)

So if your wii breaks and gets replaced, you'll have a bit of trouble getting your games back. You can only play games that have been installed on your Wii before. http://www.aussie-nintendo.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16277&page=2

Of course you could mod your Wii to get arround this, but then that kind of defeats the purpose.




What's so irritating is that you seem to belittle those of us who would, God forbid, PAY VC for games. For instance, I wanted to play Mario 64. Buying a used N64 and the game could cost me $30. Yeah, I could go online and try to find these roms, but by the time I find a Mac compatible N64 emulator and hunt down the rom, there goes my free time.

Or (novel idea), I pay $10 for the game, and make my life simpler.

Hmm, I wouldn't pay either of those prices, expecially for a N64 game which are among the most common (along with most 5th gen, esp PSX) used games to find a bargain with, they're at the bottom of the value pile, barely starting to come back up due to the age factor. (though on that note I see plenty of SNES and NES games arround too) They're all over thrift stores, granted the most common are the sports games (Madden etc) that almost never sell. The other day I picked up a copy of Mario 64 at the local Good Will for $1.50. (granted at a %50 sale)

Even on ebay you can often find it (cart only) near or below $10 (with shipping).



I personally think that VC isn't really bad (certainly not from a buisness standpoint), but the prices they charge are unreasonable for what they're supplying, and a good indicator that most of the customers are uninformed (or just don't care). I'd say $.99 plus license and transfer costs would be reasonable. (maybe a bit more for some of the really hot games)

WiiWare OTOH is great, and offers new, original, downloadable media (like SBCG4AP ;)) with a reasonable cost for such a product. (albeit in some cases not exclusive, in SBCG4AP's case it's on PC as well, granted with a delay) In many ways similar to shareware, with the exception that no hard copies are available for distribution. (although in some cases it's true for that too) Many such even have free demo versions, like shareware. (though I'm not sure about Wii exclusives, those that cross PC, have such demos)



I personally usually quite frugal, or at least wary of full price costs. Independent of economic circumstances (in general my family did pretty well), we almost never bought new games, and never (with the exception of the Wii, and NES -1989 I was an infant) new consoles. Always used and often a very good period after release. We only had the NES (excepting PC's) 'till christmas of '96 (IIRC) when we got our SNES. (from a neighbor, with a fairly hefty collection of games >12) We didn't get the N64 until christ 1999. Hell, my little brother and I got gameboys (brick) in mid 1998. Plus we were still buying (in store) SNES games used in store (FuncoLand/GS) until they stopped selling them. (~03/04 iirc)

(though we'd rented) GC in '04, Wii '07. (of course, this leaves out the old 2600 we had, but didn't set up 'till ~2000, plus a used XBOX from my cousin that's not really used, or hooked up)



All that said, I would like to see some unreleased games on VC, particularly as there can be no hard copy for the real system, or even in a licensed compilation (maybe a flash cart,inless you're really hardcore and burn you're own PROMS and make -or canabalize a cartridge, and for coprocessor games you wouldn't even have the flash option) However, such games seem unlikely to be released, for whatever reason. (As I mentioned, in particular I'd like to see Star Fox 2, but there seem to be legal issues with Argonaut, even preventing the original game being released)



ps: excuse the Nintendo theme of my examples, but... well... we were Nintendo and PC.. and pretty much still are in my house and this Forum is a LOT (like orders of magnitude) more interesting than any retro nintedo site I've seen. ;) In my defence I did have SEGA PC games

[TheEdge]

BUT ITS STILL ILLEGAL! OH NOES! ITS CONVENIENT AND DOESNT PILE MONEY ON NINTENDO'S FRONT PORCH! YOU SHOULD DIE!

at least that's what the Elusive, Internal Primate, and Mr. Matthews peanut gallery would say.



Bottom line for the peanut gallery:

If games are no longer made in physical form, I will stop buying games, end of story. If that means my game library is limited to THOUSANDS of existing games, so be it. If that Wii flash card ever somehow loses its data, there is NO WAY to prove prior ownership, not even a physical receipt. If they can't sell me games on my *reasonable* terms, then they won't get my business, end of story. Just like I won't buy a car from an asshole that wants to charge me for "paint undercoat sealant" (or whatever that BS is), I won't buy a download-only game. And I am by no means alone on this. Elusive, you can bend over and take whatever ass raping they want to dish, excuse me for blowing the bullshit whistle before I blew $100's into the air.


LOL................:rofl:

I know exactly how you feel. Sometimes you just try to make a suggestion and they pull you into some obscure philosophical conversation about things that are completely irrelevant.

Did you see how many times I had to repeat myself in this thread? its insane.

Then Melf and InternalPrimate come in and go way off topic screaming about piracy and such.

I had to tell them in one of my previous posts "Yea, we know its piracy, that was never debated!!!" But they still harp on it like we're stealing from the offering basket at church.

Hilarious. Amazing points here.

Peanut Gallery....I would rather call them the Thread Destroyers.

[MrMatthews]

Well, as soon as you two are done sucking each other's dicks, I'd like to point out that it was you who started this argument. You don't realize that you put people immediately on the defensive by insulting their tastes and preferences simply because you don't agree with them. If you go back and read this thread from the beginning, you can clearly see the response to your initial suggestion being along the lines of "meh . . . not for me." Only after you become increasingly judgemental and patronizing (as usual) did this argument start.

[TheEdge]

Well, as soon as you two are done sucking each other's dicks, I'd like to point out that it was you who started this argument. You don't realize that you put people immediately on the defensive by insulting their tastes and preferences simply because you don't agree with them. If you go back and read this thread from the beginning, you can clearly see the response to your initial suggestion being along the lines of "meh . . . not for me." Only after you become increasingly judgemental and patronizing (as usual) did this argument start.

Are you talking to me or 17days?

Either way.

Go take a long walk off a short pier, Matthews!

Now if you excuse me I have to go play some Shadowgate on my FREE DREAMCAST COMPILATION (Non-official of course)

[MrMatthews]

Both of you, actually.

But I knew that would fall on deaf ears - it's clearly easier for you to mulishly point your fingers at everyone else than it is to accept that you yourself are at least 50% responsible for all the arguments that only you seem to get in.

[TheEdge]

BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH,.......(Falls off Pier).....SPLASH!!!.

(hands Mr.Matthews a towel) :cool:

[MrMatthews]

Admit it, you just really like to argue, don't you?

[TheEdge]

I don't like arguing at all.

Each to his own.

The suggestion has been made.

[MrMatthews]

I don't like arguing at all.


If that were true, you wouldn't constantly be goading people into it. ;)

[TheEdge]

If that were true, you wouldn't constantly be goading people into it.

You got some serious issues my friend. :cool:

[MrMatthews]

See? Instead of actually talking like a normal adult, you have to make childish comments. It's pretty sad that someone your age plays those games.

[Metal_Sonic]

Matthews, lay off, life already kicked the crap out of him.

[TheEdge]

Matthews, lay off, life already kicked the crap out of him.

Hail to the King of trolls! :cool:

Long live the king!

[InternalPrimate]

How everyone is acting:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Hgs-fgn7n6o&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Hgs-fgn7n6o&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[MrMatthews]

Hmmm . . . I figured it was more like this:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/e0omjqLTZGU&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/e0omjqLTZGU&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/cHrMbyIp9AE&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/cHrMbyIp9AE&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[Scooter]

Take a look around this forum and tell me, of the threads that go south, what is the common entity to all those threads? No, really, take an honest look around, count it up, what's the common entity? The Edge. And you can seriously say you don't like to argue? I've never met anyone so single minded, intolerant and incapable of seeing ANYTHING from a point of view other than his own.

[Jesse813]

Hmmm . . . I figured it was more like this:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/e0omjqLTZGU&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/e0omjqLTZGU&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>



TheEdge in Cat Form

[kool kitty89]

Poor Burger... that's one pissed off cat.

[TheEdge]

Take a look around this forum and tell me, of the threads that go south, what is the common entity to all those threads? No, really, take an honest look around, count it up, what's the common entity? The Edge. And you can seriously say you don't like to argue? I've never met anyone so single minded, intolerant and incapable of seeing ANYTHING from a point of view other than his own.

I know, its all me. No one else has been in this thread except me. You see those other posts, those are just PC monitor illusions. Mirage's from lack of coffee and cigarettes.

Its all me :cool:


TheEdge in Cat Form

That cat has a point. I would be upset if I was behind bars and prodded by annoying Veterinarian interns.

Unless they were attractive. Then I would be only slightly perturbed.

[InternalPrimate]

I know, its all me. No one else has been in this thread except me. You see those other posts, those are just PC monitor illusions. Mirage's from lack of coffee and cigarettes.

Its all me :cool:


Just so we're clear Edge, even though you may have issue with me (you brought myself and Melf, of all people, up in a recent post), I only have issue with one person here, and it isn't you.

Even though we often disagree, I really don't try to derail your threads. In fact, we agreed very early on in this very one about the coolness of Nester DC. It's the complexities of emulation that we differ.

[TheEdge]

Just so we're clear Edge, even though you may have issue with me (you brought myself and Melf, of all people, up in a recent post), I only have issue with one person here, and it isn't you.

Even though we often disagree, I really don't try to derail your threads. In fact, we agreed very early on in this very one about the coolness of Nester DC. It's the complexities of emulation that we differ.

I was just using a current example to agree with 17days post. It was not meant to be a personal attack on any parties involved.



Awesome I gave that video 5 stars and put it in my favorites.

Is that REALLY how big the power pack is for the Wii? Dam that thing is HUGE! The creator of the video could have mentioned that as well lol.


But so you guys all know I came here to clear the air. If people want to buy roms for a high price then that is ok with me. I think it is cool that the Wii gives people an easy to use interface that allows easy access to older games. I am sure it benefits people that can't figure out how to do a Google search or people that have morals for games that are pretty much in the abandonware category.


But still it is safe to say that the Dreamcast makes the Wii look pretty unimpressive lol.


This is hilarious, we were talking about the Wii in another forum and look what this guy has to say about the VC.

I think that's is a very well round statement that isn't too offensive to VC users.




Yeah I know man. I already said that I think it is cool that the Wii gives people the option. Now get a Dreamcast and realize that you wasted your money lol.


One thing the PS3 or 360 did that is new? Dude are you serious? I don't have all day to write about all the things those 2 consoles bring to the table that are new. Oh hold on I have to play a game that utilizes the space of a blu-ray disc lol. Whats that Killzone 2? You are laughing at the Wii with your 1080i HD? Haha your silly.

Anyhow I am done with this topic. When I say I am done with a topic I mean it. I don't feel "threatend" by the Wii at all. Cheap consoles that appeal to girl gamers, Grandmas and little kids are the tops, really lol.

But it dose have Punch-Out! It's funny to see that the only games that appeal to me are rehashes and games made by Sega.

OH WAIT! My PS3 told me that it dose in fact feel threatened by the Wii. It says it is scared that that huge power supply is going to catch fire!

Anyhow, yeah I am done with this topic. All you Wii fans can g o ahead and counter my posts all you want with game lists and what you believe to be unique features all you want. I no longer care and either should you. If you have a Wii and are happy with it then that is cool. I will get one sooner or later. But I am not going to pay the asking price. Even if it less then the other consoles. And Home is a bad example because that offers ALOT of features for free. And when I look at what the Wii offers for free....wait dose it even offer anything for free? Oh well who cares lol.

More funny quotes

[Jesse813]

That cat has a point. I would be upset if I was behind bars and prodded by annoying Veterinarian interns.

Unless they were attractive. Then I would be only slightly perturbed.

Well I'll admit you have a good point there, though I'm pretty sure your both totally insane :p

[TheEdge]

Well I'll admit you have a good point there, though I'm pretty sure your both totally insane :p

Your probably right but I wanted people to see these quotes so here they are again.



Awesome I gave that video 5 stars and put it in my favorites.

Is that REALLY how big the power pack is for the Wii? Dam that thing is HUGE! The creator of the video could have mentioned that as well lol.


But so you guys all know I came here to clear the air. If people want to buy roms for a high price then that is ok with me. I think it is cool that the Wii gives people an easy to use interface that allows easy access to older games. I am sure it benefits people that can't figure out how to do a Google search or people that have morals for games that are pretty much in the abandonware category.


But still it is safe to say that the Dreamcast makes the Wii look pretty unimpressive lol.



------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Yeah I know man. I already said that I think it is cool that the Wii gives people the option. Now get a Dreamcast and realize that you wasted your money lol.


One thing the PS3 or 360 did that is new? Dude are you serious? I don't have all day to write about all the things those 2 consoles bring to the table that are new. Oh hold on I have to play a game that utilizes the space of a blu-ray disc lol. Whats that Killzone 2? You are laughing at the Wii with your 1080i HD? Haha your silly.

Anyhow I am done with this topic. When I say I am done with a topic I mean it. I don't feel "threatend" by the Wii at all. Cheap consoles that appeal to girl gamers, Grandmas and little kids are the tops, really lol.

But it dose have Punch-Out! It's funny to see that the only games that appeal to me are rehashes and games made by Sega.

OH WAIT! My PS3 told me that it dose in fact feel threatened by the Wii. It says it is scared that that huge power supply is going to catch fire!

Anyhow, yeah I am done with this topic. All you Wii fans can g o ahead and counter my posts all you want with game lists and what you believe to be unique features all you want. I no longer care and either should you. If you have a Wii and are happy with it then that is cool. I will get one sooner or later. But I am not going to pay the asking price. Even if it less then the other consoles. And Home is a bad example because that offers ALOT of features for free. And when I look at what the Wii offers for free....wait dose it even offer anything for free? Oh well who cares lol.

[InternalPrimate]

Yeah I know man. I already said that I think it is cool that the Wii gives people the option. Now get a Dreamcast and realize that you wasted your money lol.


One thing the PS3 or 360 did that is new? Dude are you serious? I don't have all day to write about all the things those 2 consoles bring to the table that are new. Oh hold on I have to play a game that utilizes the space of a blu-ray disc lol. Whats that Killzone 2? You are laughing at the Wii with your 1080i HD? Haha your silly.

Anyhow I am done with this topic. When I say I am done with a topic I mean it. I don't feel "threatend" by the Wii at all. Cheap consoles that appeal to girl gamers, Grandmas and little kids are the tops, really lol.

But it dose have Punch-Out! It's funny to see that the only games that appeal to me are rehashes and games made by Sega.

OH WAIT! My PS3 told me that it dose in fact feel threatened by the Wii. It says it is scared that that huge power supply is going to catch fire!

Anyhow, yeah I am done with this topic. All you Wii fans can g o ahead and counter my posts all you want with game lists and what you believe to be unique features all you want. I no longer care and either should you. If you have a Wii and are happy with it then that is cool. I will get one sooner or later. But I am not going to pay the asking price. Even if it less then the other consoles. And Home is a bad example because that offers ALOT of features for free. And when I look at what the Wii offers for free....wait dose it even offer anything for free? Oh well who cares lol.

I'm totally cool with beating each other to death with arguments over emulation, but do you really have to post fanboy blather? I'm so sick of hearing people trash consoles that they don't own. It's a video game console, not a best friend. I love the Genesis and the SNES equally. The N64 and the PS1 equally. The Wii and the 360 equally. How hard is that for some to wrap there heads around?

Why can't we all just get along?

[TheEdge]

Hey, I just thought it was a funny quote that pertained to our conversation.

That's all...

[InternalPrimate]

I'm not mad, it's just tiring hearing the same arguments EVERYWHERE on the internet. People have this weird link to their consoles of choice... kind of like when we were talking about nationalism! Being a fanboy is the same. It's an imaginary community of people who really have no real link to each other, yet are willing to die for a common cause!

[TheEdge]

Kind of like how people obsess over sports teams. I hear ya.

[InternalPrimate]

Kind of like how people obsess over sports teams. I hear ya.


Exactly! Those people suck. Except for the fact that I'd die for Ladanian Tomlinson or Philip Rivers (San Diego Chargers). Because that's totally different :D

[MrMatthews]

I'm not mad, it's just tiring hearing the same arguments EVERYWHERE on the internet. People have this weird link to their consoles of choice... kind of like when we were talking about nationalism! Being a fanboy is the same. It's an imaginary community of people who really have no real link to each other, yet are willing to die for a common cause!


Kind of like how people obsess over sports teams. I hear ya.


Exactly! Those people suck.

I actually hate arguing over consoles, because I'm kind of a "take it as it is" kind of guy. I'll take the 360 and Wii, warts and all. Same with the SNES & Genesis, etc. When I'm put in a position of defending a game system of choice, suddenly I'm being asked to defend all the faults and flaws that I previously didn't give a second thought about.

It's pretty unfair. You shouldn't have to try to justify or rationalize why you like something.

[InternalPrimate]

Exactly. It's kind of like listening to Justin Timberlake. Sure, it's a little gay, but you like what you like :p

[MrMatthews]

*to self*

you just made that speech, now don't be a hypocrite

*to IP*

Right!

[InternalPrimate]

I'm not ranting against Genesis fanboyism (though I hate hearing it), but more about the current fanboyism going around. Its just gotten old.

[Melf]

Exactly. It's kind of like listening to Justin Timberlake. Sure, it's a little gay, but you like what you like :p

Your whole argument is now completely invalid. :p

[Metal_Sonic]

Exactly. It's kind of like listening to Justin Timberlake. Sure, it's a little gay, but you like what you like :p

..............what..........wow........

[InternalPrimate]

Hey, the guy knows how to make a catchy tune. I'm comfortable with my sexuality :p

[otaku]

well the way I look at downloads is sometimes they are improvements or reimaginings of the old school titles. Also it helps to encourage the companies to keep making such games and to support them in new titles. Also not everyone buys off the net and has a good stock of old school in their area

[TheEdge]

well the way I look at downloads is sometimes they are improvements or reimaginings of the old school titles. Also it helps to encourage the companies to keep making such games and to support them in new titles. Also not everyone buys off the net and has a good stock of old school in their area

I know, some people don't use the web for purchases so they are stuck with what they have. Either a Virtual Console or random retro game shops / garage sales.

I can defintely understand where your coming from.

[Gentlegamer]

Hey, the guy knows how to make a catchy tune. I'm comfortable with my homosexuality :pFixed it for you.

[TheEdge]

^ Yikes........(exits stage left)

[InternalPrimate]

Say what you will about me, but how can you not like this guy?:

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj216/iprimate858/saturday-night-live-timberlake27.jpg

I rest my case.

[MrMatthews]

Well, I feel a little better about liking AMerican Idol now.

[TheEdge]

Well, I feel a little better about liking AMerican Idol now.:yuck:


:t: I can't believe you watch that trash.

[Tanegashima]

Ah you guys is CRAZAY!

[InternalPrimate]

People like what they like :D

[Metal_Sonic]

Well, I feel a little better about liking AMerican Idol now.

Oh god no........

[Jesse813]

Well, I feel a little better about liking AMerican Idol now.

:yuck: :fail:

[MrMatthews]

Happy, IP? I took the focus off you for a bit.

This season is the first year i've ever watched it. I used to be like you guys, but now I don't miss a night.

[Metal_Sonic]

The world is going to shit, IP likes Timberlake, kids killing kids, Matthews like American Idol, etc.

[TheEdge]

The world is going to shit, IP likes Timberlake, kids killing kids, Matthews like American Idol, etc.

Don't forget Metal Sonic actually taking part in a Human conversation.......:!: The world has been turned on its head:!:

[Metal_Sonic]

Don't forget Metal Sonic actually taking part in a Human conversation.......:!: The world has been turned on its head:!:

Looks like TheEdge isn't pulling any punches today :D

[Chameleon86]

I play some emulated Sega games on the PS3. I really like playing the games on their respective systems. I use emulators every now and then on PC also. People like what they like.

[17daysolderthannes]

People who downloaded DC games instead of supporting Sega's last system make me feel ill, because they're part of the reason the system didn't last.

If you enjoy playing a game, you should buy it to support the developers, or don't play it at all.


There were a lot of reasons the Dreamcast didn't last, but I'd say people pirating the games was at or very near the bottom.

Actually, you're both wrong. The #1 reason the Dreamcast died was the PERCEPTION of 3rd party developers that all existing and future games WOULD be pirated because hackers had figured out how to pirate games without needing a mod-chip. Nevermind most people barely had dial up back then and that Warez sites were NOWHERE near what they are now, it still didn't stop 3rd party companies from saying "well fuck that" and going elsewhere. No one waited to see what would happen, they simply found out pirated Dreamcast games could be played on a stock Dreamcast and didn't want to chance it. So, in a way, irrational reactions killed the Dreamcast, sort of like the economy.


Well, as soon as you two are done sucking each other's dicks, I'd like to point out that it was you who started this argument. You don't realize that you put people immediately on the defensive by insulting their tastes and preferences simply because you don't agree with them. If you go back and read this thread from the beginning, you can clearly see the response to your initial suggestion being along the lines of "meh . . . not for me." Only after you become increasingly judgemental and patronizing (as usual) did this argument start.

I think what happened here (and happens in almost every other thread) is that TheEdge's initial post was met with "holier than thou"-esque "I'm too good for torrenting ROMz and would rather download them for my Wii while eating caviar and driving my yacht." This is just like the PSP vs. DS thread where I suggested the PSP was at its best when modded. Instead of embracing the advantages of a modded PSP as a pro-PSP argument, it instead turned into (and I believe this is more or less the exact quote) "I like to play real games in the original form, not risk bricking my PSP so I can play ROMz." TheEdge created this thread so that people that DIDN'T KNOW about DC emulation could find out how easy it was and make a ghetto version of the Wii VC at a HUGE fraction of the cost. Instead of people being able to ask questions and learn about it, they were ousted out by the people shouting holier than thou speeches about copyrights and royalties and how the Wii VC is more official, even though many admitted to playing non-official ROMs themsevles, which makes NO sense, whatsoever. This was never meant to be a discussion of legal vs. illegal or Wii VC vs. DC, it was just supposed to be TheEdge sharing the cheapest and easiest way to play NES ROMs on a CRT TV. I can see how the title could be considered a slap in the face to Wii patrons, but it was meant to say "I have a better way to try" rather than say "you're a retard, do it this way."

[17daysolderthannes]

I'm totally cool with beating each other to death with arguments over emulation, but do you really have to post fanboy blather? I'm so sick of hearing people trash consoles that they don't own. It's a video game console, not a best friend. I love the Genesis and the SNES equally. The N64 and the PS1 equally. The Wii and the 360 equally. How hard is that for some to wrap there heads around?

Why can't we all just get along?

Actually, I see a little bit of necessity in it, not so much for past consoles, but for current and coming-soon consoles. There is a very steady correlation between the best selling console and the one with the most/best games throughout history. If everyone picks the best console, the most games will be made for that console, and everyone wins. Therefore, it is up to people to convince others which is the best console so that games will be made for the system of their choice. Had that happened, the PS3 might actually have games that take full advantage of the hardware and have a library of more than 4 games and everyone wouldn't be waiting months at a time on their 9th red ring of death repair. But no, people were stupid and impatient and spruing for the shitbox 360 and now no one can afford games because they spent it all fixing or replacing their system and no one can afford to make games for PS3 because there aren't enough systems out there to recoup the costs. This makes me glad I stayed out of this generation.

[Metal_Sonic]

I think what happened here (and happens in almost every other thread) is that TheEdge's initial post was met with "holier than thou"-esque "I'm too good for torrenting ROMz and would rather download them for my Wii while eating caviar and driving my yacht." This is just like the PSP vs. DS thread where I suggested the PSP was at its best when modded. Instead of embracing the advantages of a modded PSP as a pro-PSP argument, it instead turned into (and I believe this is more or less the exact quote) "I like to play real games in the original form, not risk bricking my PSP so I can play ROMz." TheEdge created this thread so that people that DIDN'T KNOW about DC emulation could find out how easy it was and make a ghetto version of the Wii VC at a HUGE fraction of the cost. Instead of people being able to ask questions and learn about it, they were ousted out by the people shouting holier than thou speeches about copyrights and royalties and how the Wii VC is more official, even though many admitted to playing non-official ROMs themsevles, which makes NO sense, whatsoever. This was never meant to be a discussion of legal vs. illegal or Wii VC vs. DC, it was just supposed to be TheEdge sharing the cheapest and easiest way to play NES ROMs on a CRT TV. I can see how the title could be considered a slap in the face to Wii patrons, but it was meant to say "I have a better way to try" rather than say "you're a retard, do it this way."


You guys have by far the weakest counter argument ....

This is how it started. It started civil enough but as soon as this was uttered, it went down the shitter. Of course both of your tones werent "Hey, save some cash" they were more like "Don't be an idiot, PIRATE!!".

[17daysolderthannes]

This is how it started. It started civil enough but as soon as this was uttered, it went down the shitter. Of course both of your tones werent "Hey, save some cash" they were more like "Don't be an idiot, PIRATE!!".

Well, to be fair, no one was saying "OMGZ, I GOTTA BE LEGAL! I CAN'T BREAK THE LAW!" If that was the case (and I know I've said before, but perhaps not in this thread), there is no counter-argument as the Wii VC is the only confirmed legal way to play these outside of cartridges. Then again, both I and TheEdge made the very valid and necessary point that you might as well just buy the cartridge for the same price or less than piss it away on the VC that you can easily lose. Then, play the ROM of your legally owned game on the DC. No one on the other side was giving ANY good reason to use the VC beyond "durrr, well I like it!" For all we know, the VC may not even be legal, who knows if Nintendo did all the licensing right, they could be sued for thousands or millions one of these days. Tengen thought they had the rights to Tetris back in the day, turned out they were wrong and Nintendo snuck in and got the rights and blew it back in Tengen's face. For all we know, certain games on the VC may be more illegal than ROMs since they might happen to be marketed without proper consent, and selling pirated material is always worse than giving it for free. I'm trying to be nice and say "to each his own," but I just can't, Wii VC is just too big of a rip off when all around better alternatives exist. Bottom line: if you want a legal copy of the game, buy the god damn cartridge or CD, then emulate it if you need it in a more convenient form, don't waste your money on a crippled "legal" ROM swimming in DRM restrictions.

[MrMatthews]

This is just like the PSP vs. DS thread where I suggested the PSP was at its best when modded. Instead of embracing the advantages of a modded PSP as a pro-PSP argument, it instead turned into (and I believe this is more or less the exact quote) "I like to play real games in the original form, not risk bricking my PSP so I can play ROMz."

Now now, there's no need to sugar-coat anything for your own benefit. What actually happened in that thread is that you were so bound and determined to talk about how amazing the PSP was at playing ROMs that you kept coming back to this point in multiple posts, despite the indifference your "kind suggestions" was initially met with. It was only after you wouldn't shut up about it that I actually acknowledged you and mentioned the reasons why I had no interest in modding my PSP.

And then you casually offered the opinion that I didn't do it because I was stupid and/or retarded.

That's when it got nasty.

Same thing here. You simply can't accept that anyone could possibly not want to download ROMs or mod their systems to play them. Why should anyone have to defend their own preferences? I shouldn't have to argue with someone for three pages in an attempt to justify why I like Pepsi over Coke. And I don't care if Coke is cheaper.

[kool kitty89]

The problems with the XBOX 360 really are ridiculous (though the newest models finally seem to have solved it). AFIK the major problem was overly cheap construction of the heat sinks with cheap plastic clips holding them on. When the clips broke (which was fairly easy) it lead to rapid overheating and CPU (and GPU) failures. I mean, it wouldn't be to difficult to remedy this yourself with a mod (with some proper clips, and maybe some added silver gel), but this just seems lazy.

Too bad they stopped offering true backword compatable models of the PS3 as well (although I can understand partially, with the added costs and the possibility of cutting into PS2 sales), but having the emotion engine onboard was really a nice feature. (and by now it shouldn't add too much to cost)


The Wii certainly isn't technically impressive compared to the others, but at least it's fully backwards compatable with the GC. And while I know some of you dislike the GC controller, it's one of my favorites, I just like the overall feel. (even though I've got big hands I still find it one of the most comfotable to hold, though I do like the original XBOX "Duke" controller)
Some games use the Wii controlls exceptionally well, but far too many end up awkward and feel tacked on (some DS games were like that too), and I'm appreciative that many allow the GC controller as an alternate.

I do wish some developers spent more time on ports to the Wii, making the most of the limited hardware. (too many end up as sloppy "shovelware")



Well, to be fair, no one was saying "OMGZ, I GOTTA BE LEGAL! I CAN'T BREAK THE LAW!" If that was the case (and I know I've said before, but perhaps not in this thread), there is no counter-argument as the Wii VC is the only confirmed legal way to play these outside of cartridges.

Well there's this:
http://www.virtualnes.com/

[TheEdge]

I didn't even know this thread was still being used..... Bottomline is that 17days and I are right and all you crusty old nerdballs are wrong and stupid. Period. End of story.

NOW IF YOU EXCUSE ME~! I am going to attempt to get more than 30,000 points on the NES version of Pac-Man on my Dreamcast.

[Knuckle Duster]

I didn't even know this thread was still being used..... Bottomline is that 17days and I are right and all you crusty old nerdballs are wrong and stupid. Period. End of story.

NOW IF YOU EXCUSE ME~! I am going to attempt to get more than 30,000 points on the NES version of Pac-Man on my Dreamcast.

It's posts like this that keep intelligent lurkers from joining discussions, and give formerly active members no reason to return.

A winner is you Edge.

[17daysolderthannes]

The problems with the XBOX 360 really are ridiculous (though the newest models finally seem to have solved it). AFIK the major problem was overly cheap construction of the heat sinks with cheap plastic clips holding them on. When the clips broke (which was fairly easy) it lead to rapid overheating and CPU (and GPU) failures. I mean, it wouldn't be to difficult to remedy this yourself with a mod (with some proper clips, and maybe some added silver gel), but this just seems lazy.

Too bad they stopped offering true backword compatable models of the PS3 as well (although I can understand partially, with the added costs and the possibility of cutting into PS2 sales), but having the emotion engine onboard was really a nice feature. (and by now it shouldn't add too much to cost)



Well there's this:
http://www.virtualnes.com/

Yeah, I don't know why I forget to plug virtualnes.com again, even though its legality is still debatable in spite of not being sued off the face of the earth. One thing I don't get is how so many ROM sites have been around for years now and have never had a serious legal cease and desist order. Many of them even mention that they don't have game "X, Y, and Z" anymore because they were asked to remove them, leading me to believe that most of the games must be existing in a Limbo of "don't ask, don't tell" legality.

As for XBOX 360, and I know being both a Mechanical Engineer (one more semester for the degree) and because I do console repairs for my job right now, the heat sinks are definitely too small (especially over the GPU, the part that fails the most often), but even worse is the shitty x-clamp that holds them to the board (they are metal, not plastic). The x-clamps just don't clamp them well and the heat sink separates, letting the chip overheat and desolder itself from the board. Replacing the x-clamps with screws forces the heat sink in contact with the chip so that it can't separate itself anymore. Too much or too little thermal paste can also cause problems with the chip desoldering itself.

The PS3 backward compatibility was a nice thought, but it was never as good as a real PS2, it added a significant extra cost since basically a whole PS2 was built into the PS3, and it seems the most failure prone PS3s are the backwards compatible models. All things considered, I think a PS2 and a PS3 is a better option than a backwards compatible PS3, which is somewhat ironic as the PS2 was beautifully backwards compatible with the PSX, but then again, so is the PSP.

[17daysolderthannes]

Now now, there's no need to sugar-coat anything for your own benefit. What actually happened in that thread is that you were so bound and determined to talk about how amazing the PSP was at playing ROMs that you kept coming back to this point in multiple posts, despite the indifference your "kind suggestions" was initially met with. It was only after you wouldn't shut up about it that I actually acknowledged you and mentioned the reasons why I had no interest in modding my PSP.

And then you casually offered the opinion that I didn't do it because I was stupid and/or retarded.

That's when it got nasty.

Same thing here. You simply can't accept that anyone could possibly not want to download ROMs or mod their systems to play them. Why should anyone have to defend their own preferences? I shouldn't have to argue with someone for three pages in an attempt to justify why I like Pepsi over Coke. And I don't care if Coke is cheaper.

I don't see how having a bias against ROMs should be included in a thread that is simply laying out the capabilities of both systems. It would make no sense for someone to make a thread called "should I buy a PSP or DS" and someone to go on and on about how the PSP video out is useless because they don't have a TV. To be honest, I really don't see why anyone wouldn't want to mod their systems as long as its been proven reliable for a long enough period of time. The only modded system I have that I'm really worried about is my XBOX because if something happened, there is no magic reset button. My PSP on the other hand, push in the memory stick, slap in the pandora battery, hit "X", I'm right back where I was. I wish my computer was as easy to start fresh as a PSP. With respect to the Dreamcast, no modding is even required, there is absolutely ZERO risk to your Dreamcast by using these discs. They either work or they don't, period. If legal reasons aren't whats holding you back, then why is the Wii the magic choice instead of the Dreamcast? If you could download it for the Dreamcast through the Sega Virtual Console, would you? If you could download the homebrew emulator and play it on the Wii, would you? I just don't see why sitting here protesting emulation and modding is necessary. If you don't know how to do it and you don't want to spend the time to find out, fine, but why do you have to sit and yell at the people that do like an art student yelling at engineers for knowing how to do math?

[MrMatthews]

Do you really think you got "yelled at" because you know how to mod a PSP?

[17daysolderthannes]

Do you really think you got "yelled at" because you know how to mod a PSP?

More than anything, I'm asking "why was it necessary" to begin with? This thread was started for TheEdge to inform interested members about his personal discovery and experience with Nester DC. Why on God's green earth should someone barge in and go "I DUNT LYKE ROMZ!!!!" By the 4th post, the entire thread had turned to crap about emulators not being accurate blah blah blah. I am very involved on both fronts: I have my ROMs for games I don't have and am either waiting to find a copy or haven't decided I want yet, but just about every game I do want, I own a real copy of. Like I've said before and keep saying, I probably own more real games than most people here, and I damn sure own more hand cleaned/detailed games than ANYONE here (I don't just buy something and throw it in a box, every game gets cleaned down to the screw holes). Emulation is the perfect way to preview games you want to own in the official form, so arguing against it is like arguing against a video game catalog or something. Some suggest its illegal, but given the lack of legal precedent and general upkeep of ROM sites, its about as illegal as stealing a sucker from Grandma's candy drawer. I don't think anyone would be dumb enough to argue against owning the tangible cartridge in your hands or experiencing it in perfect accuracy on the real hardware, but just the same I think its dumb to argue against the pure convenience afforded by emulation. As for Wii VC, its emulation too, so there's no accuracy argument to be had there, so I don't know what the justification is beyond a slightly more legal disposition.

[MrMatthews]

Okay, go back and read this thread from the beginning. Nobody barged in (initially) to tell TheEdge he was wrong. Edge started this thread by basically saying "Here's what I do. Why don't more people do this than spend their money on the VC?"

And a number of people (myself included) answered, "Well, here's why . . ."

Don't blame the rest of us because one person (who's one of your fans, I don't know why you're complaining) got aggressive with Edge about the legality of ROMs and discussing their distribution on this site.

[TheEdge]

It's posts like this that keep intelligent lurkers from joining discussions, and give formerly active members no reason to return.

A winner is you Edge.

Did you not read the crusty nerdball segment in my last post? I think that should have said it all......:cool:

Knuckle Duster may be the #1 candidate for biggest nerdball in the forum. Can we ask for a round of applause! Good Job Buddy! Your irratic and over emotional responses have really made you move up in the world! :cool:

[Knuckle Duster]

Did you not read the crusty nerdball segment in my last post? I think that should have said it all......:cool:

Knuckle Duster may be the #1 candidate for biggest nerdball in the forum. Can we ask for a round of applause! Good Job Buddy! Your irratic and over emotional responses have really made you move up in the world! :cool:

Would you like some cheese with that "whine" sir?

Seriously, get real.
I've never been emotional here, just blunt and abrasive when it comes to obvious retards (for lack of a better term) such as yourself.

[TheEdge]

Seriously, get real.
I've never been emotional here, just blunt and abrasive when it comes to obvious retards (for lack of a better term) such as yourself.


You asked for it




I hereby propose a mandatory castration for repeated offenses.
Make it happen mods. Work your magic. Start collecting balls.


What counter argument?

You're saying that homebrew enabled piracy on discontinued or modded hardware is greater and more convenient than DLC on modern systems aimed to profit from casual gamers who don't care about games much anyway.

Do you not see the flaw in your logic?

Are you for real or being sarcastic? I really can't tell. You talk like a 'scene-kiddie-fucktard' who just discovered how to use bit torrent and now considers himself a 'hacker'. I thought those types only existed in PSP forums these days, touting their battery swapping skills while fapping to monster hunter.

I'm not going to say it's wrong, since that would be a 'pot and kettle' argument , but I will say it's a 'stupid' comparison that's been already discussed.


Did you actually read his first post?

This is far from a "Good topic." It's disgustingly ignorant.


For the most part I assume no, but if you were to look at anything TheEdge posted, you would think this because he's basically furthering the "noob standard" philosophy which usually comes across as "zomg! look at this, i can steal gamez! lol DLC suxorz!" And I can agree with where he is coming from, I just think he's an idiot for at least 3 times recommending and at least twice LINKING to a site which clearly gos against this:


I hate 'stupid' pirates. Can't you tell?



Ignorance is bliss?

You're an idiot.

[Knuckle Duster]

How is anything there emotional? You think there's some sort of passion or anger behind any of those posts you've quoted?

Are you really that naive or delusional?
Are you socially retarded?

"You asked for it?"

Asked for what? More out of context quotations pieced together by absurd rhetoric?

You're basically quoting the abrasive and harsh posts I aimed at you as some sort of "defense" in an argument that doesn't exist.
Pointing out what I've just said I have done. (Way to go champ!)
I guess you just have a knack for stating the obvious.

Is the argument you "perceive" rooted in that I'm judgmental to you, and question your intelligence?

For the record, when I said:
"I hereby propose a mandatory castration for repeated offenses.
Make it happen mods. Work your magic. Start collecting balls."

I was being sarcastic in closing a post explaining how you raise issues that have been dealt with everywhere on the internet, and by dealt with I mean discussions that prove to be futile in resolve. AKA "Beating a dead horse"
I'm sorry you are too stupid to realize that, especially having quoted it out of context multiple times.

Either way, I'm not arguing with you, just judging you, and I'm sure more people than I are just as perplexed by your bullshit.

[TheEdge]

^ Someone call this guy a waaaabulance.....jeez

[MrMatthews]

Are you socially retarded?

I know this is between just the two of you right now, but I have to point out that I called him this very thing a while back. It makes me LOL to see someone else come to the same conclusion.

[17daysolderthannes]

I have to agree with TheEdge about those posts being pretty emotionally charged. They feel much more like personal attacks on TheEdge's judgement than neutral statements about the acceptability of the thread. Not to say any of my statements didn't have emotion tied to them or anything, but I definitely see emotion in many of the statements. Either way, I say we drop it, we've already made the conclusion:

Emulators are awesome, even if real hardware is always better (no one denied owning the real game is better)

they might be illegal, even though prosecution has never happened in a court of law, and without legal precedent, calling something illegal is purely speculative

there is a very convenient way to emulate NES games via the Dreamcast

some people like to use the Wii, many can't understand why, and we never will

So lets just make this thread strictly for Dreamcast emulator discussion from here on out and for the sake of the rules and appeasing the mods we won't post any links to what could be perceived as copyright violations, if anyone wants links to this stuff, you'll just have to PM TheEdge. If you don't want to emulate through homebrew means, this thread isn't for you. The title was obviously meant to be a helpful suggestion to those that didn't know about the Dreamcast alternative, not to dig at the people playing with their Wii.

[Metal_Sonic]

I have to agree with TheEdge about those posts being pretty emotionally charged. They feel much more like personal attacks on TheEdge's judgement than neutral statements about the acceptability of the thread. Not to say any of my statements didn't have emotion tied to them or anything, but I definitely see emotion in many of the statements. Either way, I say we drop it, we've already made the conclusion

If we're gonna go by that logic, then you are a HUGE nerdball for calling other RPG players "nerds"(irony) because those messages are OBVIOUSLY emotionally charged.

[MrMatthews]

I actually admitted very early in this thread that I'd be interested in using this method to play some arcade games (since many of them can only be played via emulation anyway).

[InternalPrimate]

So lets just make this thread strictly for Dreamcast emulator discussion from here on out and for the sake of the rules and appeasing the mods we won't post any links to what could be perceived as copyright violations, if anyone wants links to this stuff, you'll just have to PM TheEdge. If you don't want to emulate through homebrew means, this thread isn't for you. The title was obviously meant to be a helpful suggestion to those that didn't know about the Dreamcast alternative, not to dig at the people playing with their Wii.

I'm totally down with that. That had the be the most shockingly levelheaded post I've read on this thread for a while now.

[Puffy2k316]

Being able to play arcade fighters like SamSho II, Super Turbo, MK2/3, etc online is the best thing about this generation. My stance is if they do something to make the game better like online play or improved graphics (rez, ikaruga) then I'll but it but I'm not going to buy a simple ROM.

With that said, those Marvel vs. Capcom 2 rumors better be true

[17daysolderthannes]

I actually admitted very early in this thread that I'd be interested in using this method to play some arcade games (since many of them can only be played via emulation anyway).

sorry, but you're SOL in that department, the Dreamcast is just barely capable of running the NES without problems, it chokes and sputters like mad with anything more intense. Maybe the oldest of arcade games like Centipede or Pac Man will play OK, but if you're gonna do that, you might as well just get one of the retro compilations (in legit or burned form). PC/Mac MAME is the only way to go for arcade emulation at the moment, and boy is it awesome once you learn how to really use it. Unfortunately, its probably about the hardest emulator out there to learn/use, so if Genesis emulators are giving you headaches, I would stay far away from MAME.


Being able to play arcade fighters like SamSho II, Super Turbo, MK2/3, etc online is the best thing about this generation. My stance is if they do something to make the game better like online play or improved graphics (rez, ikaruga) then I'll but it but I'm not going to buy a simple ROM.

With that said, those Marvel vs. Capcom 2 rumors better be true

I'd personally still rather see a homebrew online play option (which I believe you have already mentioned using in another thread) than be tied to all the restrictions and painfully annoying DRM found in all the XBOX DLC (and I'm assuming somewhat present in the PS3 DLC). Then again, that's still just me and my inability to condone payment for intangible goods.

[TheEdge]

I have to agree with TheEdge about those posts being pretty emotionally charged. They feel much more like personal attacks on TheEdge's judgement than neutral statements about the acceptability of the thread. Not to say any of my statements didn't have emotion tied to them or anything, but I definitely see emotion in many of the statements. Either way, I say we drop it, we've already made the conclusion:

Emulators are awesome, even if real hardware is always better (no one denied owning the real game is better)

they might be illegal, even though prosecution has never happened in a court of law, and without legal precedent, calling something illegal is purely speculative

there is a very convenient way to emulate NES games via the Dreamcast

some people like to use the Wii, many can't understand why, and we never will

So lets just make this thread strictly for Dreamcast emulator discussion from here on out and for the sake of the rules and appeasing the mods we won't post any links to what could be perceived as copyright violations, if anyone wants links to this stuff, you'll just have to PM TheEdge. If you don't want to emulate through homebrew means, this thread isn't for you. The title was obviously meant to be a helpful suggestion to those that didn't know about the Dreamcast alternative, not to dig at the people playing with their Wii.

Thank you for the support.

Just to back you up I already have had quite a few people asking me for links and I helped at least one person to burn a copy. He said that he is now playing Castlevania 3 and I assume loving it.

Either way Knuckle Duster,Metal Sonic, IP, and Matthews really have to learn to separate their emotions from the discussion at hand because its getting a little ridiculous now. It seems like they gang up on someone or something every thread. I mean what is this? A forum or 5th grade recess?

Good points yet again 17days.

[InternalPrimate]

TheEdge, blaming other people for his attitude since June 2008!

[RowdyRodimus]

Yes, I am loving Castlevania 3. In fact, I had never played it before and since I have tried it out a bit, I ORDERED a copy for my NES.

But the big thing is that everyone but 17days and TheEdge is forgetting is that neither Nintendo or Konami are making anything from the cartridge I ordered. If they want to whine and moan about "piracy" (which unless you are putting it in a blank cartridge and selling it as authentic it's not pirating), they need to make the games available to us at all times to be able to buy.

It's their own fault for keeping stuff out of print.

Thanks again, Edge.

[TheEdge]

Yes, I am loving Castlevania 3. In fact, I had never played it before and since I have tried it out a bit, I ORDERED a copy for my NES.

But the big thing is that everyone but 17days and TheEdge is forgetting is that neither Nintendo or Konami are making anything from the cartridge I ordered. If they want to whine and moan about "piracy" (which unless you are putting it in a blank cartridge and selling it as authentic it's not pirating), they need to make the games available to us at all times to be able to buy.

It's their own fault for keeping stuff out of print.

Thanks again, Edge.

No problem, I'll keep you posted if I find anything else interesting. ;)

[InternalPrimate]

Yes, I am loving Castlevania 3. In fact, I had never played it before and since I have tried it out a bit, I ORDERED a copy for my NES.

But the big thing is that everyone but 17days and TheEdge is forgetting is that neither Nintendo or Konami are making anything from the cartridge I ordered. If they want to whine and moan about "piracy" (which unless you are putting it in a blank cartridge and selling it as authentic it's not pirating), they need to make the games available to us at all times to be able to buy.

It's their own fault for keeping stuff out of print.

Thanks again, Edge.

Not to get into a retread of the original argument here, but this point is technically wrong. Castlevania III is a VC game, and therefore Konami and Nintendo do still make a profit off of the game...

But not on the old NES cart. Which is where the ambiguity of downloading roms comes in. I mean, you can either do it the legal way and pay for the VC game and give money to Nintendo and Konami or buy the old cart and give the money to an individual or retro games shop, oooooooor you can do it the illegal way and download it and not give the money to anyone. And if you want the cart, is there a difference between giving the money to an outside source or downloading it for free?

That's the discussion a bunch of us originally wanted to have. A couple forum members here get a little too heated and sensitive way too fast though.

Anyway, congratulations for collecting an amazing game! And trust me, Castlevania III specifically doesn't play best anywhere but the original NES.

[Puffy2k316]

I'd personally still rather see a homebrew online play option (which I believe you have already mentioned using in another thread) than be tied to all the restrictions and painfully annoying DRM found in all the XBOX DLC (and I'm assuming somewhat present in the PS3 DLC). Then again, that's still just me and my inability to condone payment for intangible goods.

There's no doubt that GGPO is fantastic but there are a lot of games that don't use it. UMK3, MK2, Tekken 5, KOF 98 UM, Marvel (hopefully), etc. You can play some of those on Kaillera but that's really unbearable once you've used GGPO. Then there are some games like HD Remix that actually use the GGPO code so it's pretty much a toss up in that case.

[TheEdge]

Just to throw it out there, there is also a Sega Master System Emulator for Dreamcast. It works great and even has some Game Gear roms on it as well.

PM me if your interested.

[17daysolderthannes]

Just to throw it out there, there is also a Sega Master System Emulator for Dreamcast. It works great and even has some Game Gear roms on it as well.

PM me if your interested.

only some Game Gear roms? the one I made had ALL of the available SMS and GG roms, which somehow excluded NBA JAM, wtf!?

[TheEdge]

It may have all of them I don't know that for sure though. We probably have the same one.

[RowdyRodimus]

It has a lot of the GG ones if not all of them.

[17daysolderthannes]

It may have all of them I don't know that for sure though. We probably have the same one.

no, because I made my own .cdi using BootDreams with my own ROMs I downloaded elsewhere. I'm a 1337 haXoR like that. I try to avoid pre-made comps as most are incomplete and in a completely nonsensical way (random Japanese games when US versions exist, every NHL game but no NBA JAM, etc.). I had to deal with this for Obsidian since its warez and you can't find it as an .sbi file, but for anything else I prefer to make my own file from scratch.

[Knuckle Duster]

:lol:
Premade comps are ridiculous.

A buddy of mine did the "civic duty" in my area of modding xboxs back in the day for everybody within a few miles, just to scrape by on his monthly rent money, he dumped entire rom packs on there without thinking.

I walked in with a case of beer one day, passed him one and said:

"So....You Do realize that every one of those xbox's you rigged up, that little kids are getting, have the hentai & porn hack roms on them as well."

He choked on his beer at the realization and we both couldn't help but laugh about it.

[TheEdge]

no, because I made my own .cdi using BootDreams with my own ROMs I downloaded elsewhere. I'm a 1337 haXoR like that. I try to avoid pre-made comps as most are incomplete and in a completely nonsensical way (random Japanese games when US versions exist, every NHL game but no NBA JAM, etc.). I had to deal with this for Obsidian since its warez and you can't find it as an .sbi file, but for anything else I prefer to make my own file from scratch.


I got mine from DCISOZONE. If you want to check it out its on the site. For obvious reasons I can't link to it.

[jesus.arnold]

Just thought i'd add something here in regards to the NES, owning the real hardware is absolutely NOT the way to go if you live in Europe, it plays the games slow and squashed whilst my PC Emulator plays them very close to the way they are supposed to play at the correct speed and ratio.

The same goes for Virtual Console emulation which Nintendo has seen fit to release unchanged inferior PAL games for.

On this topic does anyone know any way that I can play NES games at 60hz with real hardware?

As far as I've heard there is no way to mod the NES for 60hz (which is what I've done for most of my old consoles)

And due to the NES not having RGB capability I cannot import a US NES as it will run in Black and White on my television (which is what I've done for all the remaining consoles I own except the NES)

Being stuck with playing my NES games at 50hz makes me always wonder if the real thing is much better or not, whether i'm criticising a game for something which is a true flaw or just a by product of shoddy porting or no optimisation

[kool kitty89]

Apparently there are a few games that are the other way arround. Pretty much games developed in PAL regions, like Codemasters games are fast on NTSC consoles, I never knew any better until someone from the UK commented on how the music was too fast. (of course, in emulators you can switch speeds manually, so it works both ways)