the great war

[zetastrike]

I've wondered about this for a long time: Why is the 16-bit war still alive today? I've noticed some hostility/bitterness towards the SNES on my visits here over the years. SNES fanboys are no different towards the Genny. I have always thought that it's really stupid for Genesis and SNES fans to keep this thing going. I've heard it a million times- "SNES HAS SLOW PROCESSOR!", "GENESIS HAS 64 COLORS!", etc, etc. Both systems were retired 12 years ago, isn't it time for us to put down our weapons and shake hands? When I was growing up with my SNES in the 90s, I never hated the Genny. To me, it was always a treat to play it at my big brother's friend's house. This goes to fanboys of both consoles: you're not accomplishing anything by saying the Genesis has crappy sound or the SNES has no good shooters. Both systems had their strenghts and weaknesses and both had countless great games. It's time we learned to accept and respect everyone else's opinions. There, I had to get that off my chest. Your thoughts?

[Baloo]

It's all in good fun. Some people, like I do, like to debate about things. This is such a hot topic between different groups of people, that it probably will never end. People like to be right, and they also like to influence and convince others with their opinions.

I find it rather fun to argue with people that the Genesis is better than the SNES. And I like the SNES as well, I don't hate it. Most other people who debate about this subject probably don't either, no matter what side they are on.

I think it's all in good fun, reguardless.

[jetlag]

The 16-bit era was the place to be. It was so much fun. It was either mario or sonic.

Although It could have been nice to see a Zelda game on the megadrive. Or starfox on the 32X.
I don't hate nintendo ,I just prefer Sega.

aaah, Childhood memories...

[mick_aka]

I think nowadays it's all just tongue in cheek joshing, I certainly dont think there's any malice behind it anymore, and if there is those people are idiots.

I find that allot of the more heated MD vs SNES debates on various forums are usually instigated by the younger retro gamers, who are getting into the 16bit 'scene' so to speak for the 1st time.

I think most of us oldies have come to a mutual respect for both consoles and their individual achievements, i know I have.

[j_factor]

Genesis and SNES are equally puny in comparison to the greatest 16-bit console of all time, the CDTV. All hail the mighty CDTV!

[Zebbe]

Why should I be obliged to like the SNES, or any console for that matter? I don't like it for some reasons, just like I don't like the Saturn or Dreamcast. I won't start liking them because some "war" is over and it's not like I don't respect people who like the consoles I don't like.

[MrMatthews]

Even when I chose Genesis during the "console wars," I always liked the SNES, too. Anyone who snubs an entire console because of the name attached to it is missing out on a ton of great games.

But I'll agree that most of the SNES nay-sayers seem to be younger gamers who are probably getting a bit too carried away.

[stalepie]

It's totemism. The Sega Genesis is our totem. I should read that book by Freud.

[Jesse813]

I agree that its mostly younger people, it also seems like they've been brainwashed by IGN Retro & AVGN as they all seem to think the Genesis didn't have any good games, and they think its Blasphemy to Criticize anything Nintendo. in my view this is bunch of BS from kids that didn't grow up w/ the consoles in the Mid 80s to Mid 90s, if they did they'd probably realize that both the NES, SNES, & Genesis all have lots of great games, Though I personally prefer the Genesis to the NES & SNES.

[TjN001]

Anyone who likes the SNES must be wrong... all of them are stupid because the SNES is terrible. I HATE everyone who likes the SNES. :)

[Iron Lizard]

It was always an up hill battle for me liking Sega. I always took shit for it back in the day and from time to time run into people who still don't understand it. that kind of thinking pushes me in a corner and makes a bit defensive. So many people put their noses up at the Genesis just because the word Nintendo was not attached to it. Many of the kids I knew who bought the Snes back then bought it over the Genesis because they were afraid to try anything different. They talked about how much the Genesis sucked yet never had one. Many of them ended up at my house playing SOR and Golden Axe on a regular basis and yet would only give the Genesis back handed compliments. The whole made me bitter.

Like i said before on occasion I still run into to people who dislike the Genesis and it always goes the same way .
They say " I didn't like it except for Sonic"
Then I have to ask why and they say "I didn't like the other games".
I reply " What games did you try?" .
They usually have no answer because they never did play anything outside of the Sonic Demo at their local Target.


The Snes sold way more to way more people with sheepish attitudes. I know not all of them were I know but enough that were to make me think of the system that ways. Why are Snes games mores ought after?


I think of the 16bit era alike the 1939 FinnishRusso war of Video Games. Sega fought a giant along with skeptical customers and retailers. They lost but gave it a hell of a fight. Yet many( not all ,I know I not trying to piss anyone off in this rant) Snes fans dismiss it like it was nothing .

Oh well I am rant and rambling to long. In short this is why sometimes I get annoyed with the whole Snes topic

[Knuckle Duster]

I had nintendo in my house for 3 generations. I however jumped on the tg16 and genesis bandwagon back in 1989 by being a louse at my friends house.

There was a crew of 6 of us, constantly hanging out in different places whenever new kick ass titles came out. I was the only guy around with the NES prior to Canadian launch, (got in on them early with the localized NYC launch.) with the boatload of famicom imports, bootlegs, etc.

I got the SNES at launch and recall the sheer awesomeness of Pilotwings, Gradius III, SMW, and later Act Raiser. My friends were blown away by it too, we didn't really aruge much about what was better. The tradition kept up when N64 was launched, Mario 64 was "Mind Blowing."
I hauled that system around to other peoples houses all the time when WCW World Tour came out.

None of us were really biased against other systems, we shared the wealth.
If anything we were jealous of the friend who was rockin' a PC capable of playing "Doom." :lol:

I also remember a Nintendo loving fanboy back in the day eating his biased words when he became hooked on feeding his lunch money to Golden Axe.

Those days are dead though.
There were only 3 titles I was "really interested in" for this generation. Mario galaxy, Little Big Planet, and Nights Journey of Dreams, a crying shame since it's 3 years in already.

[genesisguy]

I was on the Genesis side during the actual war. Yes, I'm a veteran of the 16-bit war and he war is over people whatever rumblings are going on today are like civil war reinactors. I remember getting into fist fights over SNES and Genesis(we always called it Sega back then). The off handed remarks I see about Genesis today are just youtube comments.

I got a SNES for cheap right when Funcoland switched over to N64 and Playstation but I only played a few games on it then packed it away with my Genesis during high school and just concentrated on girls. I got back into NES, SNES and Genesis last year and I hate to say it but it was the SNES that brought me back into gaming by seeing all the games I never had as a kid for pretty cheap on ebay. That said, within the past few months I've been buying up Genesis games and realizing they actually for the most part play smoother than most SNES games.

[Rusty Venture]

I played both Genesis and SNES in 1993.

Anyone who acts like the 16-bit wars are still relevant either don't get enough sex, or are internet bred posers.

[17daysolderthannes]

I keep getting labeled as an anti-SNES fanboy, but the truth is that I had an SNES growing up and didn't get a Genesis until about a year ago. My cousin's had a Genesis, and even though I loved it, I always used to say "man, it sucks they couldn't get a Super Nintendo, the graphics are better." I wasn't even evaluating it based on my own experience either, I was just repeating what people told me (I guess the more colors thing was where they were pulling that, well, maybe the larger sprites too). Nowadays, for me at least, its all about fighting the hoards of people that think the Genesis is the half-assed bastard step child of the SNES and all games were better on the SNES, but that's not true at all. The Genesis is a great system and was much better at handling arcade ports than the SNES. There are lots of great games on the SNES and it was one of the last systems before games started getting watered down for mass public appeal (from a difficulty standpoint at least). Nowadays, the only real complaint I have against the SNES is the shitty controller with its too slim profile, horrible d-pad, too small buttons with not enough press distance, and often distracting shoulder buttons. If I could use a Genesis 6-button pad on an SNES, it would make the experience light years better.

[mick_aka]

You weren't there man, you weren't freakin there!
Knee deep in kiddies and fanboys man when the carts were flyin' past your ears, I can still hear em now man, I hear em in my sleep, I see their twisted faces as they were trying to trade in Altered Beast to get Mario World.
They were all so young man, they were just kids!

The chip tunes ring in my head man, there's no escape.
Why do they come to me to die? Why do they come to me to die!

[Mr Smith]

The 16-bit war was probably the most intense due to the close market share of Nintendo and Sega. The Playstation blitzed the competition in the 32-bit era and since then (with the exception of the Dreamcast) games have become quite samey.

Back in the early 90's too owning more than one current console was a sign of extreme affluence and even some of the most wealthy people I knew only owned one of the Mega Drive or SNES. Video gaming was a different sort of creature back in those days too.

Games also played a big factor with tons of original titles on both systems and many of the games released on both systems weren't just simple ports, but contained an array of features worth arguing over.

There is also the fact that the Internet and PC's were very much in their domestic infancy too and this war was fought among friends in the school yard and not with some pointless n00bs on message boards. The 16-bit era split families apart damnit!

As Mick AKA has beautifully put it: You weren't there man, you weren't freakin there!

[Rusty Venture]

Back when video game news came to you once a month via magazine, not daily on the computer.

[TheEdge]

I don't think I ever got into an argument about which gaming system was better until just recently. Back in the day my friends and I all had the Genesis so we didn't really know or care about the people who had the SNES.

I do however consider myself lucky that I got a Genesis instead of the SNES. From what I found out about it and from what I remember while playing it back in the day is that it wasn't as fun as the Genesis.

[Iron Lizard]

Back when video game news came to you once a month via magazine, not daily on the computer.

I used to wait once a month for that giant issue of EGM. I miss those days.

[Rusty Venture]

I remember flipping through those massive 200-300 page EGM holiday issues...that was fun.

I can still do that as I have the issues from those years, but I can't buy the junk included in there anymore.

[j_factor]

Back when video game news came to you once a month via magazine, not daily on the computer.

There were newsgroups. And Compuserve!

[17daysolderthannes]

Back in the early 90's too owning more than one current console was a sign of extreme affluence and even some of the most wealthy people I knew only owned one of the Mega Drive or SNES. Video gaming was a different sort of creature back in those days too.



I think that was due to consumers not quite understanding how to handle video game systems. I think people were still thinking of it like Beta vs. VHS and they thought "pick one and stick with it." I mean, who had both a Beta AND VHS player before Beta went completely defunct? I remember a news report talking about the SNES like Nintendo was scamming the shit out of everyone that bought an NES because they were making it obsolete with the new system. You could also compare it to buying a Mac or a PC. How many people did you know back then that had a Mac AND a PC? Nowadays its not so uncommon since some people will get Macs for day to day stuff and media and then use the PC for games or other things that aren't very well developed for macs (mostly pirating/bootlegging type stuff). Nowadays, people realize systems are going to have exclusives, so the only way to not be limited is to just get them all. It also helps that systems are sold at a loss and then money is made back on the games, though even that hasn't helped too much with the (still) ludicrously expensive XBOX 360 and PS3 (once you get all the necessary accessories for it).

[Elusive]

You weren't there man, you weren't freakin there!
Knee deep in kiddies and fanboys man when the carts were flyin' past your ears, I can still hear em now man, I hear em in my sleep, I see their twisted faces as they were trying to trade in Altered Beast to get Mario World.
They were all so young man, they were just kids!

The chip tunes ring in my head man, there's no escape.
Why do they come to me to die? Why do they come to me to die!

The year was 1992. We were on recon in a steaming Nintendo delta. An overheated private removed his flack jacket, revealing a T-shirt with an ironed-on sporting the slogan 'GENESIS DOES WHAT NINTENDON'T'. Well, we all had a good laugh, even though I didn't quite understand it. But our momentary lapse of concentration allowed Mario to get the drop on us. I spent the next three years in a POW camp, forced to subsist on a thin stew made of fish, vegetables, prawns, coconut milk, and four kinds of Mario Sports games. I came close to madness trying to find it here in the West, but they just can't get the physics right

[muchomojo]

During the early 90's I had a TG-16, my brother had a SNES, and my best friend had a Genesis. I used to argue left and right that the TG was the better of the 3 systems. I think most people tend to like the system they grew up with.

Today I have all 3 and think they all rock pretty hard. They have their differences but I wouldn't want to be without any of them.

[genesisguy]

The year was 1992. We were on recon in a steaming Nintendo delta. An overheated private removed his flack jacket, revealing a T-shirt with an ironed-on sporting the slogan 'GENESIS DOES WHAT NINTENDON'T'. Well, we all had a good laugh, even though I didn't quite understand it. But our momentary lapse of concentration allowed Mario to get the drop on us. I spent the next three years in a POW camp, forced to subsist on a thin stew made of fish, vegetables, prawns, coconut milk, and four kinds of Mario Sports games. I came close to madness trying to find it here in the West, but they just can't get the physics right

You served with a company of heroes.

[Mr Smith]

The year was 1992. We were on recon in a steaming Nintendo delta. An overheated private removed his flack jacket, revealing a T-shirt with an ironed-on sporting the slogan 'GENESIS DOES WHAT NINTENDON'T'. Well, we all had a good laugh, even though I didn't quite understand it. But our momentary lapse of concentration allowed Mario to get the drop on us. I spent the next three years in a POW camp, forced to subsist on a thin stew made of fish, vegetables, prawns, coconut milk, and four kinds of Mario Sports games. I came close to madness trying to find it here in the West, but they just can't get the physics right
This wins the post of the month award. :ok:

[mick_aka]

gah! can't give elusive any more rep :(

[Rusty Venture]

There were newsgroups. And Compuserve!

And a very small portion of gamers were on those.


Typical gamers discussed games (in my experience) either face to face (take that facebook!) or via written letters to magazines.

[MrMatthews]

The year was 1992. We were on recon in a steaming Nintendo delta. An overheated private removed his flack jacket, revealing a T-shirt with an ironed-on sporting the slogan 'GENESIS DOES WHAT NINTENDON'T'. Well, we all had a good laugh, even though I didn't quite understand it. But our momentary lapse of concentration allowed Mario to get the drop on us. I spent the next three years in a POW camp, forced to subsist on a thin stew made of fish, vegetables, prawns, coconut milk, and four kinds of Mario Sports games. I came close to madness trying to find it here in the West, but they just can't get the physics right

Ha ha! Doctored Simpsons quotes put a shine on any thread!

[zetastrike]

They should come up an AVGN type guy who's a sega fan. As much as I like the nerd, he's a blatant 80's nintendo fanboy. I'd like to hear that stuff from a sega perspective. He does make some valid points about sega in the Wii Salute video. The Master System doesn't suck balls, though. That was a pretty ignorant comment.

[17daysolderthannes]

They should come up an AVGN type guy who's a sega fan. As much as I like the nerd, he's a blatant 80's nintendo fanboy. I'd like to hear that stuff from a sega perspective. He does make some valid points about sega in the Wii Salute video. The Master System doesn't suck balls, though. That was a pretty ignorant comment.

that will never happen, Sega fans aren't angry nerds. Oh wait...

At any rate, it would end up being too technical about the optimization of code or something since somehow all Sega fans are programming gurus and all Nintendo fans are ignorant consumers. These are facts.

[Knuckle Duster]

They should come up an AVGN type guy who's a sega fan. As much as I like the nerd, he's a blatant 80's nintendo fanboy. I'd like to hear that stuff from a sega perspective. He does make some valid points about sega in the Wii Salute video. The Master System doesn't suck balls, though. That was a pretty ignorant comment.

I think I'm in the minority when I view all the "youtube generation critic's" as a waste of time. I don't feel the need to watch some self-centered ego-inflated dick head tell me why Game-X sucks, or why Game-Y is awesome. I don't think it's comedic either.

That's what's wrong with gamers these days, everyone lets anyone with a soapbox and an opinion, hold more water on the issue than personal experience.

If you weren't there kids, you weren't there. Don't waste your time listening to us older bastards spew nostalgia, go do something better, like mow some lawns, earn some money, and buy some kick ass new games like Madworld or drop some coin on a box of old carts and play them for yourself. Live it up.

[Rusty Venture]

I'm all for a "15 years later we review a game"...but in a magazine dedicated to retro games...not on Youtube.

I really have nothing against AVGN..as long as he is reviewing games that are known to be shitastic. But to treat his reviews as anything more than entertainment is just silly.

[17daysolderthannes]

I'm all for a "15 years later we review a game"...but in a magazine dedicated to retro games...not on Youtube.

I really have nothing against AVGN..as long as he is reviewing games that are known to be shitastic. But to treat his reviews as anything more than entertainment is just silly.

The problem is that people are trying to coattail AVGN's success and make a name for themselves but they lack the editing, writing, acting, and lighting skills and persistence to pull it off. So, what you get is a half assed review from someone that barely played the game and offers nearly no insight at all. I will at least give AVGN credit for playing through most of the game and he usually does have very valid points of where the developers totally had their head up their ass (the jumps in TMNT for example). I mean, its just common knowledge that older games (especially the NES era) had lots of really confusing, unfair, or retarded points in the game that really didn't need to be there, but the developers just said "hey, I got an idea!" and it ended up in the game. The only thing that bugs me about the current AVGN is that he still sometimes gets his facts wrong. It wouldn't bother me so much in most situations, but with SO MANY PEOPLE watching his videos, I hate for him to say wrong things and then have the internet tell me I'M wrong because he fucked up. Like recently he reviewed his NES collection and said stuff like "the Tengen games were unlicensed and came in black and sometimes gray carts." True, the black ones WERE unlicensed, but the gray ones were licensed. That's really important in NES history to know that Tengen was once a licensed developer. Tengen's split marked one of the first times an unlicensed 3rd party company had a successful run. Its a minor discrepancy, but still enough for some jackass to sit and argue with me because he got his education from the angry video game nerd.

[Knuckle Duster]

The so called "war" was started publicly when Sega fired the first shot with it's aggressive marketing campaign.

None of the playground warriors of that era could grasp the concept of Nintendo's monopoly tactics at the time, all they knew was that Nintendo was cool for 3 years, and Sega Fanatics felt aggressive and alien, especially with their need to criticize and sometimes beat the shit out of Nintendorks who wielded blind obedience.

How many Mud-Pies were force fed to either side? Who knows, nobody counted those casualties. In the grand scheme of things, Sega ended up liberating game developers during the "war", but like some "veterans", they went crazy from shell shock and fell off the face of the earth later in life.

/sarcasm :lol:

[Rusty Venture]

The problem is that people are trying to coattail AVGN's success and make a name for themselves but they lack the editing, writing, acting, and lighting skills and persistence to pull it off.

If someone has to browse YouTube to get reivews of games...then all that can be said is:

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/15/suck_internet001.jpg (http://www.threadbombing.com/details.php?image_id=1069)

[17daysolderthannes]

If someone has to browse YouTube to get reivews of games...then all that can be said is:

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/15/suck_internet001.jpg (http://www.threadbombing.com/details.php?image_id=1069)

they aren't looking for reviews, in fact, its almost impossible to find a completely straightforward and unbiased review of ANYTHING besides new releases. No, the AVGN and his many clones are trying to carve a comedy niche with a nostalgic appeal, in this case video games. I'm sure people were doing it with movies long before anyone started doing it to video games. Look at Mystery Science Theater 3000, its like the AVGN of movies (only much, MUCH better). I only wish Crow and Tom Servo would grace us with a video game review. When the AVGN gets it right, his "reviews" can be hysterical as you sit along side him (metaphorically) going "holy shit, that is messed up." The copycats try to emulate all the swearing and what not, but lack the timing and actual material to make it worth watching. To be totally honest, I don't think the AVGN is even that great at what he does. He may have been the first to hit it big, but I've seen others that had much funnier punchlines and commentaries with far less random poop jokes. If you ever get bored, check out SpoonyOne on youtube, he reviews retro games and usually has some great stuff to say about it without any toilet humor or obnoxious Nickelodeon style crap. If Spoony and the AVGN would team up with Spoony writing and the AVGN directing and editing, I think the overall quality would be amazing.

[Metal_Sonic]

they aren't looking for reviews, in fact, its almost impossible to find a completely straightforward and unbiased review of ANYTHING besides new releases.

Did....did you just say reviews of new games are unbiased and straight forward? I...I gotta sit down.

[johnnyb]

*frisbees in a pillow from out of shot.....

[kool kitty89]

Like recently he reviewed his NES collection and said stuff like "the Tengen games were unlicensed and came in black and sometimes gray carts." True, the black ones WERE unlicensed, but the gray ones were licensed. That's really important in NES history to know that Tengen was once a licensed developer. Tengen's split marked one of the first times an unlicensed 3rd party company had a successful run. Its a minor discrepancy, but still enough for some jackass to sit and argue with me because he got his education from the angry video game nerd.

Yeah, I caught that, and the fact they are licenced is pretty obvious by the clearly displayed seal of approval. He also didn't mention that the later Camerica Carts were silver instead of Gold. (though he may not have any of those yet)

But consider that the AVGN is just a character James Rolfe created (originally just as a gag for his freinds included as a bonus on the VHS collection of his movies he made in 2004)> Of course he decided to make more after being spurred by the response he got after releasing the vids to the internet in '06.

He may be a Nintendo fan (I wouldn't say "fanboy") and that's certainly what he grew up with, and he's certainly become a collector, but he's foremost a horror/monster movie fan and cinematographer. Just look at his site: http://www.cinemassacre.com/

On that note, he's certainly not a tech nerd as is obvious in his summary of the Jaguar. (mainly how he thought the Jaguar's 64 bits came from processors being "added up to 64 bits")

BTW he doen't even post his new AVGN videos on youtube anymore, just the trailers. (they're on gametrailers and get posted on youtube after a year)




On this actual topic though, I was really too young to get into the 16-bit war, except maybe the tail end of it, but I never did anyway. We didn't get an SNES until after the 5th gen was well under way. (before that it was PC and NES) I did experience the 5th gen war, mostly with the N64 vs Playstation. (I knew about the saturn, I'd seen it up close and seen some games on it, but none of my friends had one, though none of the friends I'vd visit had PSX's at the time either)

Toward of the 4th gen I can only remember one friend who had a Genesis (though he was the only freind I that remembervisiting at his house). Though he also had an NES 2 and a SNES, and was the first person I knew to have the N64.

From the 5th gen though, I only seem to rember a few arguments about the N64 and PSX. (I seem to recall hearing most of this arround ~1998-2000) But somewhat oddly it always seemed to be an argument about which was "better" or more powerful, not really bringing the games into the picture. (of course, technically the N64 smoked the PSX hardware easily, save for areas where only the data capacity of the CD made possible)