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View Full Version : What was the absolute final Sega CD release?



j_factor
04-27-2009, 06:19 PM
We all know the final (licensed) Genesis release was Frogger, and for 32x it was Spider-Man. But what about Sega CD? I remember back in the day, there were a few games that were supposed to be possibly the last Sega CD release (in the US). I can think of Shadowrun, Myst, Braindead 13, Kingdom: The Far Reaches, Crime Patrol 2, Space Pirates, some Battletech game, a Garfield game (possibly where the Sega Channel exclusive thing came from), and Atlantis, all scheduled for early '96 releases. Unfortunately, they were all canceled. So what ended up actually being the final Sega CD game in the US? Oldergames releases don't count.

I've heard of a few possibilities, including Lunar 2 (doubtful), Wild Woody, and Demolition Man. Demolition Man is listed in a few places as having been released November 15, 1995, but I don't necessarily trust stated release dates for old games.

gamegenie
04-27-2009, 08:41 PM
I the most recent game that came out for Sega CD was made earlier this decade.

Joe Redifer
04-27-2009, 08:49 PM
I'm sure he means officially licensed by Sega.

WarmSignal
04-27-2009, 09:11 PM
IGN has release dates on all of them, probably none of them accurate because they list some of the earlist titles as mid 1994.

Does anyone know the significance behind Snatcher and RDF Global Conflict being the only two games with slightly different cases than the rest? I thought it might of had something to do with the dates they were released at first.

gamegenie
04-27-2009, 10:50 PM
It was this game.

http://www.gooddealgames.com/news/BattleFrenzy.jpg

Joe Redifer
04-27-2009, 11:01 PM
That is not an official title. I don't see the Sega logo anywhere. They don't even use the right Copperplate font for the Sega CD text on the side.

j_factor
04-27-2009, 11:02 PM
Perhaps you missed it in the original post, so I will repeat it here:

Oldergames releases don't count.

A Black Falcon
04-28-2009, 02:47 AM
According to this list, Surgical Strike in December 1995.

http://www.huguesjohnson.com//features/closing_time/index.html

Not sure if it's correct, but it's a possibility anyway. It would definitely have been something in December 1995, because yeah, there were no 1996 releases in the US, unfortunately.

17daysolderthannes
04-28-2009, 03:07 AM
I dunno, that site says Sonic 1 was the last SMS game to be released, even though Sonic 2 was also on the SMS as well as Streets of Rage 2.

tomaitheous
04-28-2009, 04:02 AM
According to this list, Surgical Strike in December 1995.

http://www.huguesjohnson.com//features/closing_time/index.html

Not sure if it's correct, but it's a possibility anyway. It would definitely have been something in December 1995, because yeah, there were no 1996 releases in the US, unfortunately.

Oh man, the game on the system was a FMV title? That just speaks volumes.

Shadowrun would have been badass last title for the SegaCD.

j_factor
04-28-2009, 04:14 AM
I dunno, that site says Sonic 1 was the last SMS game to be released, even though Sonic 2 was also on the SMS as well as Streets of Rage 2.

Sonic 2 and Streets of Rage 2 were not officially sold in the US. European copies may have been available in some American shops, but there was no US distribution and the boxes were never given an American-style UPC. Sonic 1 was indeed the last SMS game in the US. The last SMS game in Europe was Smurfs 2.

However, that site is definitely wrong on a couple of points. The last Game Gear game was The Lost World, not Sonic Blast.

kool kitty89
04-28-2009, 04:38 AM
I dunno, that site says Sonic 1 was the last SMS game to be released, even though Sonic 2 was also on the SMS as well as Streets of Rage 2.

But wasn't it, for the US market of course. The EU market lasted much longer and stronger, not to mention Brazil.

matteus
04-28-2009, 03:19 PM
Oh man, the game on the system was a FMV title? That just speaks volumes.

Shadowrun would have been badass last title for the SegaCD.

Obviously they thought the Mega CD should go out on a the same note as it came in :) A crappy FMV game :D

Zebbe
04-28-2009, 03:58 PM
I've looked up the titles mentioned here on Guardiana, Lunar 2 was last of according to that site, 09-1995.

j_factor
04-28-2009, 04:30 PM
I'm almost positive that it wasn't Lunar 2.

gamegenie
04-28-2009, 05:41 PM
it probably was this game.

http://media.gamestats.com/gg/image/object/816/816129/PennandTeller_SegaCDpreBOX_Fboxart_160w.jpg

WarmSignal
04-28-2009, 05:55 PM
it probably was this game.

http://media.gamestats.com/gg/image/object/816/816129/PennandTeller_SegaCDpreBOX_Fboxart_160w.jpg

Again, never officially released.

gamegenie
04-28-2009, 06:15 PM
Again, never officially released.

that game was officially released.

or are you saying you want unofficial releases? Which I posted on the first page.

mick_aka
04-28-2009, 07:15 PM
that game was officially released.

No, it wasn't.

gamegenie
04-28-2009, 07:36 PM
No, it wasn't.

ah you're right. ;)

Baloo
04-28-2009, 08:05 PM
That game actually looks rather interesting. I like the Buzz Bombers part.

Aarzak
04-28-2009, 10:39 PM
it probably was this game.

http://media.gamestats.com/gg/image/object/816/816129/PennandTeller_SegaCDpreBOX_Fboxart_160w.jpg

That game, along with another Sega game that was pretty much completed yet never released ("Indiana Jones' Greatest Adventures" for Genesis), was previewed on the August 1995 issue of EGM (#73).

Must've been pretty sad being a Sega CD & 32X owner throughout 1995. As with the Mega Drive, SoJ pretty much abandoned the Mega CD when the Saturn was released in late 1994, leaving only American and overseas devs working on it, and a small backlog of Japanese titles (incluing Lunar 2) that finally started hitting the U.S in 1995.

"Lunar: Eternal Blue" was the swan song of the Sega CD, without a doubt.

gamegenie
04-29-2009, 12:12 AM
^
Sega was so keen on doing stupid things back then, and they had to learn the hard way and that lose all their fanbase to Sony.

Aarzak
04-29-2009, 01:01 AM
In Japan, it made logical sense to can the Mega CD early. I mean, it didn't even break a million units sold!!! Compare that to the number of Mega Drive owners (3 million at most).

Also, the 32X was released AFTER the Sega Saturn in Japan. Talk about dead on arrival. SoJ actually played with it (for all of a couple of months) for a while to appease SoA, but by mid-1995 they too jumped ship on the 32X.

kool kitty89
04-29-2009, 04:12 AM
In Japan, it made logical sense to can the Mega CD early. I mean, it didn't even break a million units sold!!! Compare that to the number of Mega Drive owners (3 million at most).

We were talking about that here: http://sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6767&page=5 there seems to be a possible error in this article in the sales numbers: http://www.sega-16.com/feature_page.php?id=256&title=Sega%20CD:%20A%20Console%20too%20Soon
Your statement seems to agree

Also, the 32X was released AFTER the Sega Saturn in Japan. Talk about dead on arrival. SoJ actually played with it (for all of a couple of months) for a while to appease SoA, but by mid-1995 they too jumped ship on the 32X.[/QUOTE]

The Saturn was launched early, very early. SoA had planned on having at least 1 full year with the 32x before the Saturn was released in the US, and at least several before the Japanese release. SoJ wanted to jump Sony's JP PSX release, though this also had the issue of catching most developers off gaurd with little software ready for release, killer appslike Virtua Fighter supported the Japanese release.
Had SoA known of SoJ's plans before the relese of the 32x it would likely have been cancelled.

A bigger issue than discontinuing the CD was discontinuing Genesis support shortly after, this may have made sense to SoJ with the very limited success of the MD in that region, but made absolutely no sense to Sega's strongest markets: the US (where it had the lead in the 16-bit era for a while, and didn't end too far behind) and Europe (where it outsold the SNES roughly 9 vs. 8 million), not to mention Brazil...

Da_Shocker
04-29-2009, 01:24 PM
Demolition Man was never released for the Sega Cd.

retrospiel
04-29-2009, 03:52 PM
A bigger issue than discontinuing the CD was discontinuing Genesis support shortly after, this may have made sense to SoJ with the very limited success of the MD in that region, but made absolutely no sense to Sega's strongest markets: the US (where it had the lead in the 16-bit era for a while, and didn't end too far behind) and Europe (where it outsold the SNES roughly 9 vs. 8 million), not to mention Brazil...

Hm, you gotta keep in mind that

a) the Mega Drive / Genesis market was dead when they cancelled it
a) Sega was essentially bankrupt when they cancelled it

gamegenie
04-29-2009, 05:15 PM
^

Sega was not bankrupted at the end of the Genesis era, they had between 55-65% of the gaming marketshare between 1993-1995

retrospiel
04-29-2009, 05:17 PM
Notice how you mentioned "between 93-95".

- Somehow they assumed that whatever console or add-on they release, millions of people automatically would buy it just because. They obviously had no idea why people started buying the Genesis back in 91-93, and thus they didn't know what went wrong when they released SCD, 32X, Saturn and no one bought any of those.

gamegenie
04-29-2009, 05:53 PM
Notice how you mentioned "between 93-95".

- Somehow they assumed that whatever console or add-on they release, millions of people automatically would buy it just because. They obviously had no idea why people started buying the Genesis back in 91-93, and thus they didn't know what went wrong when they released SCD, 32X, Saturn and no one bought any of those.

except Sega CD did share in part of their early success.

retrospiel
04-29-2009, 06:11 PM
While it wasn't a total disaster like the 32x, SCD marks the beginning of the end. They lost quite a lot of money on advertisement campaigns and FMV game production.

kool kitty89
04-29-2009, 07:58 PM
The FMV games were popular and sold well, but were an unfortunate fad that caused the system's popularity to crash along with it and left it perminently tarnished. With hindsight, it probably would have been best to market with a bit more variety, the FMV stuff obviously sold (though production costs were high for directing those videos), but they could have had a broader market to support the console after that fad which was supposedly "the future of gaming" died.

gamegenie
04-29-2009, 08:13 PM
While it wasn't a total disaster like the 32x, SCD marks the beginning of the end. They lost quite a lot of money on advertisement campaigns and FMV game production.

I think the beginning of the end for Sega started with their mismanaged decision on how to break into the 32-bit era. Sega CD had no part in that. Sega CD satisfied it's Genesis fans.



There's so much to pick at Sega when you look at the cluster fuck that was the 32-bit movement.


Saturn hardware spec issue
Possible Sony involvement
32X (planned shortlife)
Early releasing Saturn and killing off the current gen systems. (pissing off fans and causing retailers to blacklist your system)

all could have led Sega a different light had things been done different.

retrospiel
04-29-2009, 08:39 PM
With hindsight, it probably would have been best to market with a bit more variety, the FMV stuff obviously sold (though production costs were high for directing those videos), but they could have had a broader market to support the console after that fad which was supposedly "the future of gaming" died.


Yeah, even if this garbage was popular and sold well, it was not a good idea to keep releasing more and more. Making a quick buck in this business never was a hard thing to do at all but if your goal was to stay for a while, then consumer's trust is of more importance.

This trust can only be earned by a constant output of quality software, and this software can only be developed by game designers that consider themselves as artists working on a piece of art, not mere manufacturers of a product to generate profit.

It seems that in Japan software designers traditionally have some more influence within their companies - at least in comparision to SoA, where one day some suits decided that FMV got to be "the future of gaming". >_<

retrospiel
04-29-2009, 09:33 PM
I assume that you would not be wrong if you were to claim that this decision can be tracked back to the impression the early Japanese Mega CD games "Road Avenger" and "Time Gal" left among SoA's management. These games surely look impressive to non-gamers, no doubt about it, but it probably would not have hurt to check where these games actually come from before producing dozens of them and start to advertise them as "the future of gaming": Both Time Gal and Road Avenger are arcade games from the early 80s, developed at a time when Dragon's Lair had some short-lived success. All three were games that a) cost an insane amount of money during production, b) relied on LaserDisc technique to store the high quality film scenes, and c) even then this entire genre was only popular for just a blink of an eye because d) as games these both suck and blow at same time.

kool kitty89
04-30-2009, 04:15 AM
It seems that in Japan software designers traditionally have some more influence within their companies - at least in comparision to SoA, where one day some suits decided that FMV got to be "the future of gaming". >_<

I don't think some "suits" at SoA were the ones that had the bright idea, it had already started on home computers with the increasing popularity of the CD-ROM, SoA just jumped on the bandwaggon and focused too much on it. (though some games like Night Trap had been in devlopment a good while before CD's werw an option, in that case it was to be on a game console using VHS casettes as the storage media!)

The problem with the SCD is that SoA pushed the FMV stuff (especially the gimicky "inteactive movie" types, and unfortunately some of the better games got a bit tarnished by association) a bit too hard (the 3DO was almost as bad), while home computers were pretty much uneffected by the "FMV crash" due to there obvious other atributes and software (though the gimmicky FMV games stopped selling) the consoles like 3DO and SCD took a big hit.


Even without our hindsight, they should have known of the similarly short fad with laser disc arcade games in the early '80s (many of which were actually ported to the sega CD, and more popular ones like Dragon's Lair and Space Ace on home computer too), and taken caution in case the CD FMV crase met a similar end. (which it obviously did, if anything in an even less glamerous manner)



Saturn hardware spec issue
Possible Sony involvement
32X (planned shortlife)
Early releasing Saturn and killing off the current gen systems. (pissing off fans and causing retailers to blacklist your system)

all could have led Sega a different light had things been done different.

And of course the early Saturn release changed the 32x's life from short one planned, to virtually nonexistant.

Don't forget their opertunity to use Silicon Graphics' Mips Chipset. (that later became the basis of the N64)

McMasters
04-30-2009, 05:14 AM
Shadowrun was the last Mega CD game released in Japan in 1996.

crazyteknohed
04-30-2009, 09:14 AM
Shadowrun was the last Mega CD game released in Japan in 1996.

And what a great game it is. Shame it was never loacalised :(

Tanegashima
05-01-2009, 02:09 AM
Demolition Man was never released for the Sega Cd.

I wonder why I owned it then...huh.

j_factor
05-01-2009, 02:22 AM
I don't think some "suits" at SoA were the ones that had the bright idea, it had already started on home computers with the increasing popularity of the CD-ROM, SoA just jumped on the bandwaggon and focused too much on it. (though some games like Night Trap had been in devlopment a good while before CD's werw an option, in that case it was to be on a game console using VHS casettes as the storage media!)

The problem with the SCD is that SoA pushed the FMV stuff (especially the gimicky "inteactive movie" types, and unfortunately some of the better games got a bit tarnished by association) a bit too hard (the 3DO was almost as bad), while home computers were pretty much uneffected by the "FMV crash" due to there obvious other atributes and software (though the gimmicky FMV games stopped selling) the consoles like 3DO and SCD took a big hit.


Even without our hindsight, they should have known of the similarly short fad with laser disc arcade games in the early '80s (many of which were actually ported to the sega CD, and more popular ones like Dragon's Lair and Space Ace on home computer too), and taken caution in case the CD FMV crase met a similar end. (which it obviously did, if anything in an even less glamerous manner)

Let's be fair though, when the Sega CD came out, it was a success at launch, completely selling out its initial shipment (which may not sound like a big deal, but back then it was unusual). Night Trap and Sewer Shark were its most popular games at that point. So it made perfect sense to continue investing in FMV games. I don't buy that they were entirely focused on FMV games with the Sega CD, that's not at all how I remember it and it sounds like revisionism to me. Also, I don't think the problem is merely that FMV games were a fad that quickly went out of style, I think it's also notable that most of the FMV games that followed were absolute garbage (which Night Trap and Sewer Shark weren't).

Ultimately, I think Sega CD did decently for a while and then Sega killed it with the 32x, and then just stopped supporting it.

j_factor
05-01-2009, 02:25 AM
Demolition Man was never released for the Sega Cd.

Yes it was (http://cgi.ebay.com/DEMOLITION-MAN-Sega-Cd-games-COMPLETE-Rare-FREE-S-H_W0QQitemZ360147488563QQcmdZViewItemQQptZVideo_Ga mes_Games?hash=item360147488563&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A13%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7 C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50). :)

http://www.imageurlhost.com/images/zdmg1cq42g3jsdvt64.jpg

tomaitheous
05-01-2009, 02:49 AM
I don't buy that they were entirely focused on FMV games with the Sega CD, that's not at all how I remember it and it sounds like revisionism to me.

But they continued to release FMV titles. Continued to. Even after the fad died shortly after, they still released FMV. They might have been entirely focused on FMV, but it was definitely their main focus. I mean, the pushed hard in trying to show how the SNES could NOT deliver this "unique" experience. I think they were afraid to release what would have appeared to be normal cart games with perceived minor upgrades. You're asking customers to fork over another $300-400 for an upgrade and justify it with slight upgrades? In that price range, you could have just gotten a Neo Geo.

I don't think it's revisionism. I was there too BITD (and with my own income). I clearly remember the stigmata of FMV crap being the focus for the SegaCD.

j_factor
05-01-2009, 03:35 AM
Sure, they still released FMV games. But not to the exclusion of everything else. Wasn't the overall best-selling Sega CD game Sonic CD?

gamegenie
05-01-2009, 06:39 AM
not to mention that FMV has only been getting bad reps from revisionist Youtube peeps who give their opinion on why Sega blew up.

If people want to know the truth read that IGN article.


In early to mid 90s before the arrival of the PlayStation. FMV and VR games were still deemed the future of gaming.

tomaitheous
05-01-2009, 07:40 AM
In early to mid 90s before the arrival of the PlayStation. FMV and VR games were still deemed the future of gaming.

Uhm, no one I knew thought FMV was the way of the future. Ok, this one guy did - but I don't think that lasted very long. FMV games were quickly considered a joke back then. They were considered "soul-less" games. Sega diehard/devoted fans bought into it though (and some of them look back and still see nothing wrong with that scenario, to this day). You what was exciting? Releases of non FMV titles. :D I rode my bike 10 miles to the mall at night just to pickup Final Fight CD (and I didn't even own the SegaCD at the time, my friend did). It seemed like, for a little while, Sega had finally (no pun intended) come around.

Actually, I'm surprised there isn't a larger community around these old FMV titles in this day and age, like cheesy B-rated or bombed movies that are cult classics from yester-year. You know, for the "cheese" factor.


Wasn't the overall best-selling Sega CD game Sonic CD?

Was it? That makes me feel a little better :)

gamegenie
05-01-2009, 10:33 AM
Actually, I'm surprised there isn't a larger community around these old FMV titles in this day and age, like cheesy B-rated or bombed movies that are cult classics from yester-year. You know, for the "cheese" factor.


probably because there weren't really that many FMV games as their were equally 2D games available for Sega CD, which most gamers saw and just thought of Sega CD as Genesis games on a disc with better audio and didn't buy one.

The most popular FMV games that resonate to some gamers today who owned or heard of a Sega CD is mostly Sewer Shark, Night Trap

But it wasn't just Sega CD, with some FMV game releases , CD-I, 3DO, and I'd imagine others as well.



I personally like Double Switch and Mighty Morphin Power Rangers.

j_factor
05-02-2009, 02:20 AM
I have Double Switch for Saturn, and it is pretty good. I also liked Mansion of Hidden Souls, but that's basically just an adventure game that happens to have a lot of FMV in it.

WarmSignal
05-02-2009, 02:45 AM
Yes it was (http://cgi.ebay.com/DEMOLITION-MAN-Sega-Cd-games-COMPLETE-Rare-FREE-S-H_W0QQitemZ360147488563QQcmdZViewItemQQptZVideo_Ga mes_Games?hash=item360147488563&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A13%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7 C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50). :)


Oh em gee, where did they get that unreleased piece of software!?

gamegenie
05-02-2009, 02:57 PM
Oh em gee, where did they get that unreleased piece of software!?

yeah Demolition Man was released a long time ago. I remember it was suppose to get released on the Jaguar too but that never happened.

darkwickus
06-26-2009, 03:37 PM
Just a few things I've managed to sort through and uncover here. It looks like Surgical Strike was released November 6, 1993 from what I've been able to research. Demolition Man, however, looks like a November 15, 1995 release, which could make it a possible final release. It seems weird to me though because the movie was released in theaters in 1993. Releasing a game for it 2 years later seems like bad marketing to me. But, it's still possible I guess. I will continue to plug away at those dates. They are tricky and elusive, but I'm sure not impossible. /shrug

As for the best selling game in the US, it is indeed Sonic CD! In Japan, it was Lunar: The Silver Star.

A Black Falcon
06-27-2009, 02:20 AM
Surgical Strike, 1993? Checking Gamefaqs, it and IGN do indeed say that... bizarre, they're wrong. Where did that come from, when for years everyone's been saying 1995? 1993 doesn't even make any sense either, why the heck would there be a "Free 32XCD offer inside" thing on the front if the game came out a full year BEFORE the 32X? No, that doesn't make sense. No 32XCD compatible titles were coming out in 1993, so this can't be a 1993 release. But that's not the only proof.

When you run the game the game's copyright screen says 1995. Those dates aren't always right, but I don't know that I've heard of one listing a year AFTER the year it actually came out in, only before... :)

Wherever that 1993 US release date came from, it's wrong. The game almost certainly came out in 1995. Was it before or after Demolition Man? That I don't know... but they clearly were two of the last releases.

The Sports Guy
06-27-2009, 02:29 AM
I own that game. It's irritating. I actually have a review of it like 70% complete sitting in my documents folder. Maybe I'll finish it sometime.

Da_Shocker
06-27-2009, 03:26 AM
Uhm yeah I get it with the Demolition Man geez just saw it on Amazon.com. Anyways there was a total of 18-20 FMV games released on the Sega CD so that means that around 20% of the Sega CD library consisted of FMV games. Debunking the stereotype that the Sega CD was a FMV system. Now SoA did promote the hell out of them. What it boils down to really is that SCD didn't offer many games that were leaps and bounds that was better than what was on the Genesis. I mean would they have been better off going with a better VDP chip rather than a second CPU? I mean are there any games on the SCD that are better than there TGCD counterparts?

kool kitty89
06-27-2009, 07:14 AM
I mean would they have been better off going with a better VDP chip rather than a second CPU? I mean are there any games on the SCD that are better than there TGCD counterparts?

My understanding of this is somewhat limited, but I don't think this would be possible, that is, using the Sega CD graphics ASIC (or hypothetical additional video hardware) without the Sega CD CPU, at least in the current configuration. (I beleive all data transfer between the units takes place in the word RAM bridging the 2 CPUs) With the connections available on the expansion slot, I don't know if you could even make such a configuration work at all. (had the expansion slot been oriented differently thins may have changed though)

Had they addressed more memory through the expansion port (basicly brought a bunch of cartridge slot pins over) putting the added CD unit's program RAM (say a full 1 MB -8Mbit- block) on the cartridge bus (with much more address space than the current exp bus), then have a new, independant VDP to work with on the Sega CD side, that might work.
However you'd still need a seperate video out port on the CD (and mixing cable if you want to overlay graphics from the Genesis VDP).
Then again, if we're talkning about an alternate EXP port, they could have added video lines as well, to allow the video signals to be mixed internally. (though you'd still have to have the new A/V out on the CD side inless they'd allowed the Genesis side to overlay graphics, which I'm not sure is possible, but may have been an unused feature on the VDP that was used in arcades)

Of course now you'd be stuck with the slower Genesis CPU, but, then again, a powerful graphics processor should be capable of a lot of things regardless (the most straightforeward arrangement from the current hardware would be to include a "Super VDP" -in a previous discussion; basicly a bitmap display processor, used in conjunction with the CD's Graphics ASIC using a 8-bit/256-color tiles with its own video RAM). I'm not how streaming compressed video could be handled, the CPU would be pretty weak for that (though so is a 12.5 MHz 68k, even for Cinepak), so I'd immagine the graphics chip would be handling a good bit of that.


Now that you've got me thinking on that (granted I'm not entiely sure on the limitations of the current expansion connector), it would seem that a lot of the limiting factors for both the Sega CD and (to a lesser extent) 32x seems to be in the limit of their connectivity. Had the expansion port been configured a bit differently (in any number of ways) it could have opened the posibilities of an expansion unit up a lot more.
For one they could have brought over unconnected pins (used in the arcade) on the VDP. (one thing Chilly Willy mentioned was a color bus that could be used with additional hardware, to combine pixels to create a 256 color mode, albeit with 1/2 the horizontl resolution, though I'm sure there'd be other possibilities as well)
They could have added more address space for the main CPU to access directly, and used the cartridge bus (basicly rerouted some of the cartridge slot pins, though I'm not sure if this isn't how it's currently done this way, still the address space is limited). Then there's the possibility of including video lines to allow mixing through the port rather than an external cable. (I'm not sure if this could be done directly through the Genesis VDP to output on its side, or if it'd havbe to be output through the CD side)

Da_Shocker
06-27-2009, 11:43 AM
What does the custom asic chip do anyways? THe only thing the SCD had that the Genesis didn't have was hardware based scaling and rotation.

crazyteknohed
06-27-2009, 01:31 PM
I mean are there any games on the SCD that are better than there TGCD counterparts?

Yeah, Popful Mail is. Probably has more to do with the redesigned graphics than technical differences though. I much prefer the Mega-CD version of Snatcher too, being in my native language and all that.

tomaitheous
06-27-2009, 08:23 PM
I much prefer the Mega-CD version of Snatcher too, being in my native language and all that.

Mega-CD version???

kool kitty89
06-27-2009, 08:57 PM
Mega-CD version???

Remember, it's called that in Europe too. ;)

You were thinking he meant the Japanese version, weren't you? :p



What does the custom asic chip do anyways? The only thing the SCD had that the Genesis didn't have was hardware based scaling and rotation.

When doing the game from the Sega CD side (using the CD hardware as the main unit, and the Genesis as an accessory), I beleive the ASIC is doing pretty much all the graphics work, then outputing it to the Genesis VDP for the display. (the Genesis CPU becoming the slave CPU for transfering information to the Genesis VDP, reading controller imputs, and for using any of the Genesis sound hardware: YM2612 or PSG) In addition to the scaling/rotation, I think it can handle more sprites without flicker or slowdown and do more complex layed backgrounds.

You can also have games that pretty much just use the Genesis hardware, using the CD for game data and added music, which wouldn't use the ASIC at all and would have the CD unit's CPU as the "slave" mainly just using it to transfer data from the CD side. (this is most usful for simple "upgraded" ports form the Genesis, though I wonder is some games did both at different parts, like Batman Returns with the genesis sidscrolling parts vs the CD driving portions and animation screens)

tomaitheous
06-27-2009, 10:47 PM
Remember, it's called that in Europe too. ;)

You were thinking he meant the Japanese version, weren't you? :p


I thought the game was only released in N/A.




In addition to the scaling/rotation, I think it can handle more sprites without flicker or slowdown and do more complex layed backgrounds.

True, but you're limited to only 15 colors on that plane for all the sprites or the multiple BG layers. Plus, if you use the whole plane (screen width/height), you'll get choppy sprite or BG layers movement. For sprites, it might be good for some PC type games though (Lemmings, Dune, etc).

Black_Tiger
06-28-2009, 01:30 AM
Originally Posted by Da_Shocker View Post
I mean are there any games on the SCD that are better than there TGCD counterparts?


Yeah, Popful Mail is. Probably has more to do with the redesigned graphics than technical differences though. I much prefer the Mega-CD version of Snatcher too, being in my native language and all that.

It depends on how you judge "better". Popful Mail for Sega-CD does more with some of the graphics on a technical level. They're so different though, that it's not the same as comparing other true "counterparts". Same with Record of Loddos War, 3x3 Eyes, etc.

Shin Megami Tensei has upgraded graphics on Mega-CD.

Death Bringer looks better in the dungeons, but it may be a different style overall like Popful Mail.

Cosmic Fantasy Stories has the first 2 games on the same disc, has an awesome new intro and part 1 has been upgraded/redone. I don't know if much was changed for part2.

kool kitty89
06-28-2009, 02:45 AM
I thought the game was only released in N/A.


Wikipedia has it listed as being released in the US and Europe simultaneously in december of 1994.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snatcher


True, but you're limited to only 15 colors on that plane for all the sprites or the multiple BG layers. Plus, if you use the whole plane (screen width/height), you'll get choppy sprite or BG layers movement. For sprites, it might be good for some PC type games though (Lemmings, Dune, etc).[/QUOTE]

Do some games use the ASIC in conjunction with normal Genesis VDP generated graphics? (having the ASIC do part of the background, or handle sprite tiles)

Would the choppy movement in full-plane with the ASIC be a limitation of the ASIC itsself, the Genesis VRAM, or a combination?

mick_aka
06-28-2009, 02:51 AM
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_BDCqpuwRnf4/RlWuqU4KUsI/AAAAAAAABkQ/3__ShbujS_o/s400/Snatcherebay.JPG

kool kitty89
06-28-2009, 03:19 AM
BTW, in addition to what I mentioned previously about the CD/genesis expansion slot connector, you could have it with a simpler set-up w/out the extra CPU, but I beleive there's only a 17-bit address bus (from the chart I've seen there's only 17 address pins) which means RAM could only be addressable in 128 kB banks, in the current configuration, the Genesis CPU can do just that (with 2x 128 kB banks of word RAM and the other 4x 128 kB banks of program ram also available if you halt the CD's CPU), though I don't know if there's a performance penalty to switching banks in the current configuration)

retrospiel
06-28-2009, 09:49 AM
Anyways there was a total of 18-20 FMV games released on the Sega CD so that means that around 20% of the Sega CD library consisted of FMV games. Debunking the stereotype that the Sega CD was a FMV system. Now SoA did promote the hell out of them. What it boils down to really is that SCD didn't offer many games that were leaps and bounds that was better than what was on the Genesis. I mean would they have been better off going with a better VDP chip rather than a second CPU?

I think the problem is that SOA did a terrible job at advertising this thing. THEY were the ones that wanted it to be more than what it was, much more than any of their customers.

crazyteknohed
06-28-2009, 02:02 PM
Same with Record of Loddos War

How different are the two versions? I've heard that the MCD version is much better. Personally I love the MCD version of RoLW but I've heard a few people say that the PCE version isn't particularly good, meaning it's either quite a different beast or that my taste in gaming is a bit shat.

crazyteknohed
06-28-2009, 02:04 PM
Wikipedia has it listed as being released in the US and Europe simultaneously in december of 1994.

According to some guy in some forum that I read way back when, the PAL version is uncensored as you get to see a bit of nip. I wasn't really paying too much attention last time I played through the PAL version but next time I give it a whirl I'll confirm whether this is true...

tomaitheous
06-28-2009, 05:05 PM
Would the choppy movement in full-plane with the ASIC be a limitation of the ASIC itsself, the Genesis VRAM, or a combination?

I'm sure if you hit the max bandwidth of the ASIC, that would slow down some things but I was referring to the local DMA to VRAM. For 320x224 (NTSC) it takes 5 frames (12fps) to update the a whole full screen plane. 3 frames(20fps) if you clip the display to 320x200. That doesn't include room for other vram updates (tilemap, etc) and doesn't leave room for double buffering (you'll get lots of mid screen screen tear a cross all those frames). I could see doing 128x128 chunk on a 320x200 clipped display. That'd give 60fps and still have 1/3rd bandwidth left to do tilemap/etc. No need for double buffering and no screen tearing.

kool kitty89
06-28-2009, 09:43 PM
Edit: moved it to the Super VDP theread as this is really off topic and it fits well there.

http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3402&page=7

WarmSignal
12-22-2009, 08:16 AM
For some reason, I was thinking about this again... so I felt like bumping it.

Did anyone ever determine which was the final North American release? In addition to Surgical Strike and Demolition Man, I recently noticed that the copyright and publishing dates for RDF Global Conflict and Fahrenheit are also 1995... So I guess that makes four possibilities?

David J.
05-23-2010, 12:13 AM
I'm browsing random threads here. Fahrenheit was NOT the final SCD game... I think it became around the same time, if not before the other SCD games that had CD32X releases. I know in the USA Fahrenheit was only released Sega CD and CD32X in the same bundle, but I really doubt it was the final SCD game. Same with RDF... I think it may have been second or third to last but not the final game.

Demolition Man must have been one hell of a late release then. Surgical Strike seems likely. Hmm

GohanX
05-23-2010, 02:48 PM
I don't know for sure, but I do remember lots of game stores back in the day having nothing in the Sega Cd sections but copies of Demolitin Man. (And Frogger in the Genny section!)

Da_Shocker
05-23-2010, 04:22 PM
I know Surgical Strike came out in June of 95 not 93.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/segacd/916395-sega-cd/faqs/37153

That is probably the best list there is out there right now.

tomaitheous
05-23-2010, 07:53 PM
I know Surgical Strike came out in June of 95 not 93.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/segacd/916395-sega-cd/faqs/37153

That is probably the best list there is out there right now.

Interesting. That lists has "Fantasy Star Soldier" as an unreleased game. But... this was an unreleased (almost finished localization) of Star Parodia for Turbo Duo. I think they might have got that one wrong on the list >_> Unless someone else has some details.

kool kitty89
05-24-2010, 06:15 AM
I'm sure if you hit the max bandwidth of the ASIC, that would slow down some things but I was referring to the local DMA to VRAM. For 320x224 (NTSC) it takes 5 frames (12fps) to update the a whole full screen plane. 3 frames(20fps) if you clip the display to 320x200. That doesn't include room for other vram updates (tilemap, etc) and doesn't leave room for double buffering (you'll get lots of mid screen screen tear a cross all those frames). I could see doing 128x128 chunk on a 320x200 clipped display. That'd give 60fps and still have 1/3rd bandwidth left to do tilemap/etc. No need for double buffering and no screen tearing.

Not to take this off topic again, but I noticed these figures don't match up with the DMA bandwidth figures posted explicitly in a later discussion. (133.33 bytes per vblank line in H32 and 166.66 for H40 iirc -sans 2 lines per frame dedicated to another purpose)
So the 5 frames for 320x224 and 3 frames for 320x200 seem a bit low. (with the figures I recall, it should be 6 and 4 frames -though with a lot of time left over in the 4th frame for the latter

j_factor
05-24-2010, 02:05 PM
For some reason, I was thinking about this again... so I felt like bumping it.

Did anyone ever determine which was the final North American release? In addition to Surgical Strike and Demolition Man, I recently noticed that the copyright and publishing dates for RDF Global Conflict and Fahrenheit are also 1995... So I guess that makes four possibilities?

Quite a few Sega CD games came out in 1995. That doesn't mean much.

tomaitheous
05-24-2010, 06:22 PM
Not to take this off topic again, but I noticed these figures don't match up with the DMA bandwidth figures posted explicitly in a later discussion. (133.33 bytes per vblank line in H32 and 166.66 for H40 iirc -sans 2 lines per frame dedicated to another purpose)
So the 5 frames for 320x224 and 3 frames for 320x200 seem a bit low. (with the figures I recall, it should be 6 and 4 frames -though with a lot of time left over in the 4th frame for the latter

It's ~166 bytes for H32 mode and ~205bytes. 262(total scanlines)-224(active frame)-2(right before start of display)=vblank bandwidth. XXX by YYY divided by 2, then divide by vblank bandwidth. If it's not a whole number, then you have to round up the value (because it still takes part of a frame). Of course if you waste full CPU bandwidth during active display, you can upload 16bytes per active scanline to vram - get a little boost.

KnightWarrior
05-25-2010, 02:05 AM
Is gamegenie high or what

what was the last game on the SMS in Brazil

Deo
05-25-2010, 02:10 AM
what was the last game on the SMS in Brazil

That the world may never know.

Aarzak
05-25-2010, 02:21 AM
All I know is that "Lunar: Eternal Blue", "Samurai Shodown" and " The Adventures of Batman & Robin" were arguably the last high-profile SCD releases, especially Lunar. They were all released post-Sega Saturn, when Sega had unofficially dropped what little promotional efforts they had for the console, until the infamous verdict was handed out by Nakayama-san in the Fall of '95, after which devs either canned or shoved any remaining SCD & 32X software into stores.

I'll throw in my two cents and say that it was "Demolition Man". Seriously, I didn't even know that game came out for SCD. What a sucky last game that would be, a forgettable platformer based on a movie that was already over a year old.

With all eyes on the PS1 & Saturn by late '95, nobody was keeping tabs on the last SCD & 32X releases. Well, at least those clinging on to their 32X's, who were unaware of Nakayama's decision and were awaiting more software well into 1996 (seriously, check out those archived usenet posts! :D) were keeping tabs, but the SCD was as dead as a doorknob in most eyes, with the Saturn already out. Dead. DEAD. DEAD!!! :twisted: