Component & stereo sound!:D....finally!

[johnnyb]

Finally had my last part turn up today, my model 1 MD scart cable from somewhere in the UK. I have had a HDG model 1 for some time now but just with the usual AV cable. So I finally got off my ass and purchased what was required, a MD1 scart cable, little magic box from scart to component, 3.5mm stereo RCA cable, component cable to go with my 32" CRT, console and Alpine stereo.:D

...And am I glad or what that I did! So much more detail comes out (you can actually reas things), better looking colour that seems more vibrant and finally I can hear some decent sound... even bass! I took a couple of shots of SOR2, they aren`t the best looking pictures but you can definately see the difference. (my pics have dulled the colours down).

Regular AV on the left and Component on the right.:D

http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq304/lazarus37/SOR2com.jpg

[Ghaleon]

Nice. Where did you get the SCART cable and the magic box to convert RGB to component? I would need both of them as well being in the U.S. Also: do you have to have a model 1 High Def Graphics type Gen/MD to get RGB out, or do other models output that too?

[johnnyb]

I bought the following scart cable, they have plenty...
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Sega-megadrive-1-RGB-to-scart-cable_W0QQitemZ190311276904

I bought my RGB to component converter locally but there are heaps on evilbay...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370208120839

And I`m pretty sure you need the HDG MD1 or a modded console, but someone else can confirm that!:D

[Iron Lizard]

I'm jealous. I must do this. :)

[johnnyb]

I'm jealous. I must do this. :)

Absolutely, you showed me the way now you must do it yourself!:D

[Joe Redifer]

Congrats! Awesome, isn't it?

[johnnyb]

Congrats! Awesome, isn't it?

:D It doesn`t get anymore awesome!

[TmEE]

(getting a PAL TV so you'd not need the RGB to YUV converter, but difference is highly minimal anyway so you would not want to bother :P)

More people outside Europe will have to go through the route you did :)

[johnnyb]

(getting a PAL TV so you'd not need the RGB to YUV converter, but difference is highly minimal anyway so you would not want to bother :P)

More people outside Europe will have to go through the route you did :)

Yea I originally looked for tv`s here with scart input, there were a few but quite expensive, even for 5+ years old. This way worked out good considering I already had a good tv to put to use.:D

[Christuserloeser]

I demand high resolution pictures with less compression artifacts (e.g. PNG). Other than that: Congrats! :)




do you have to have a model 1 High Def Graphics type Gen/MD to get RGB out, or do other models output that too?

Almost all consoles do output RGB via the AV out. Notable exceptions would be NES, TG-16 and Nintendo 64.

All you need is a RGB-SCART cable with the proper connector for your console / model.

[tofu]

I've tried this route before with something I got off ebay and the picture came out very clear yet black and white, any idea why?

[David J.]

I have all of the stuff needed back in NY... and used to play Genesis like this. It was AWESOME.

[Black_Tiger]

I've tried this route before with something I got off ebay and the picture came out very clear yet black and white, any idea why?

Sounds like it's outputting the wrong signal format. Since you used this method, I'm assuming that you're living in NTSC land, so your transcoder or whatever is probably outputting PAL.

[Christuserloeser]

I am not sure whether PAL exists in Y'PbPr land. It's either Y'PbPr or PAL/NTSC, like it's either RGB or PAL/NTSC.

[gamegenie]

I bought the following scart cable, they have plenty...
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Sega-megadrive-1-RGB-to-scart-cable_W0QQitemZ190311276904



is the connector tip for that SCART male or female?

[kool kitty89]

I am not sure whether PAL exists in Y'PbPr land. It's either Y'PbPr or PAL/NTSC, like it's either RGB or PAL/NTSC.

Yeah, I think composite/S-video and RF should be the only things effected (techinically it's the chroma signal that differs iirc), in any case it wouldn't have the described effect.

What is described sounds like only the luma (Y) connetor is working, thus no color. Intersting to note that you'll get the same image if you plug the luma RCA lead from component video into composite video: a nice, crisp, B&W monochrome image. (which makes perfect sense, since composite just has the chroma and luma signals meshed together)

[Black_Tiger]

Yeah, I think composite/S-video and RF should be the only things effected (techinically it's the chroma signal that differs iirc), in any case it wouldn't have the described effect.

What is described sounds like only the luma (Y) connetor is working, thus no color. Intersting to note that you'll get the same image if you plug the luma RCA lead from component video into composite video: a nice, crisp, B&W monochrome image. (which makes perfect sense, since composite just has the chroma and luma signals meshed together)

I'm no video signal expert, but I do know that what he described is exactly what my S-Video modded PAL MD looks like on NTSC TVs (and what some PAL bootleg dvds I once bought looked like through S-Video).

[kool kitty89]

That's because the Luma (brightness/B&W) signal is compatible, but the color signal isn't. I beleive the NTSC "colorburst" signal is 3.58 MHz, while the PAL one is 4.43 MHz. Did composite video work in those cases? (it should have been the same, since composite and S-Video are identical except for the Luma an chroma signals being seperate)

[Chameleon86]

Great mod to the system. I will not be doing this when I get a Genesis. Thanks for posting.

[johnnyb]

is the connector tip for that SCART male or female?

The scart end is male.:D

[Mark Robert]

Congratulations man, the improvement in visual quality and detail is striking. It really brings out the beauty of Genesis games. :D

[gamegenie]

Ok, I think I found a cheaper solution than that expensive SCART to Component adapter.

Will this work?

First buy that RGB to Component cable from ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Sega-megadrive-1-RGB-to-scart-cable_W0QQitemZ190311276904

Since that SCART end is Male, you need to get this $2 dollar female to female SCART adapter
http://www.cableuniverse.co.uk/catalog/cables/scart-coupler-female-female.html

Last you can then purchase this male SCART to Component adapter.

http://www.jvbdigital.nl/jvb.asp?cur=2&level=accessoires&page=title&title=221

:D voila Component video on the Genesis!

[Iron Lizard]

I don't think that will work. The adapter is component to Rgb, not Rgb to component. I wish it would. It would be about $20-30 cheaper.

[gamegenie]

I don't think that will work. The adapter is component to Rgb, not Rgb to component. I wish it would. It would be about $20-30 cheaper.

it indeed says SCART to RGB/Component adapter.

[Iron Lizard]

Well the description says otherwise. :(

"To inter-connect your devices that output YPbPr component analog video (CAV) to a television (or other device) that accepts component analog video. "

Maybe it will. Try it and let us know.

[Ghaleon]

@gamegenie: Iron Lizard's right: it won't work since that last adapter is a pass-through only device--the description says "To inter-connect your devices that output YPbPr component analog video (CAV) to a television (or other device) that accepts component analog video. " You're wanting to connect a device that outputs RGB (RGBs, more specifically)--that being the Geneisis/Megadrive--to a TV that accepts component video input. The conversion from one to another requires signal conversion, not just passive wiring adapters. Wish you were right, though, as that's quite a bit cheaper and I want to do this as well.

[cyb]

I love that rgb>yuv converter..I can't wait to see what my neo looks like through it.

[Joe Redifer]

Neo Geo AES might be a little dark. If that's the case, you can either do an RGB bypass or have someone do it for you. This sends the RGB straight to the jack without going through the shitty SNK chip which has the job of making the video look like ass. Try it first!

[chinitosoccer]

Neo Geo AES might be a little dark. If that's the case, you can either do an RGB bypass or have someone do it for you. This sends the RGB straight to the jack without going through the shitty SNK chip which has the job of making the video look like ass. Try it first!

No need to do the bypass anymore, all you need to do is cut the traces on the circuit board, i have tried both methods and this one gave me better results and its easier to do.

http://www.mmmonkey.co.uk/console/images/neo/vid3.jpg
http://www.mmmonkey.co.uk/console/images/neo/vid4.jpg


Edit:source: http://www.mmmonkey.co.uk

[gamegenie]

Will somebody please make a RGB to HDMI cable for the Genesis

[Chilly Willy]

Will somebody please make a RGB to HDMI cable for the Genesis

HDMI is digital, so you'd need to have a circuit with a triple video ADC for the video and dual ADC for the audio, then a FAST processor to put the data in the proper format. We're talking a pricey converter here.

[Ghaleon]

Will somebody please make a RGB to HDMI cable for the Genesis

I've seen some VGA (RGBHV) + analog audio to HDMI converters, and some component-video + analog audio to HDMI converters, mostly in the $100+ USD price range, but none of them that I've seen state support for the RGBS that the Gen/MD outputs, and of course their handling of 240p would very likely either treat it as 480i and incorrectly try to deinterlace it, or possibly even completely freak out on it.

[Joe Redifer]

No need to do the bypass anymore, all you need to do is cut the traces on the circuit board, i have tried both methods and this one gave me better results and its easier to do.

I know you posted images, but they are not showing up. The only reason I know you posted images was because the tags were there when I quoted you. Anyway, I'd definitely like to know more about this. Does it matter which motherboard revision you have?

[Zebbe]

:D It doesn`t get anymore awesome!

True RGB is more awesome. Not by much, but it still is.

[Ghaleon]

No need to do the bypass anymore, all you need to do is cut the traces on the circuit board, i have tried both methods and this one gave me better results and its easier to do.

http://www.mmmonkey.co.uk/console/images/neo/vid3.jpg
http://www.mmmonkey.co.uk/console/images/neo/vid4.jpg

His images showed up in my preview where I quoted him, so I'll post this in case it helps.

edit: fail. The hosting site is blocking based on the referrer header, you'll get a 403 denied if you link to it (so don't bother clicking on the below links which the board insists on putting url tags around though I keep removing them), but if you copy and paste into a browser window, it should work:

http://www.mmmonkey.co.uk/console/images/neo/vid3.jpg
http://www.mmmonkey.co.uk/console/images/neo/vid4.jpg

[Joe Redifer]

True RGB is more awesome. Not by much, but it still is.

Actually it really depends on the monitor. True RGB monitors are probably built a touch better than consumer-grade component TVs. But the way component works, there should be no loss in the video signal.

When I was buying a CRT component TV, I took my Genesis and two games with me to test; Midnight Resistance and Ys for the Sega Master System. I played until I got into the weapons room in MR to see how the red text over each case looked. In Ys I had a scene saved where there is a lot of dithering and I looked to see how the TV handled that. Sony and especially Samsung handled it just awfully. The Sony put vertical lines in the dithering and the Samsung had a weird moire pattern to it and the reds were very bad as well. The Toshiba handled it near-perfect, so I went with that.

[Diosoth]

Unfortunately, I've never considered the benefits to be worth the cost. I'd either have to order components to do my own mod, or pay someone, and either way is too expensive to justify.

[chinitosoccer]

True RGB is more awesome. Not by much, but it still is.



Actually it really depends on the monitor. True RGB monitors are probably built a touch better than consumer-grade component TVs. But the way component works, there should be no loss in the video signal.

When I was buying a CRT component TV, I took my Genesis and two games with me to test; Midnight Resistance and Ys for the Sega Master System. I played until I got into the weapons room in MR to see how the red text over each case looked. In Ys I had a scene saved where there is a lot of dithering and I looked to see how the TV handled that. Sony and especially Samsung handled it just awfully. The Sony put vertical lines in the dithering and the Samsung had a weird moire pattern to it and the reds were very bad as well. The Toshiba handled it near-perfect, so I went with that.

Wtf are you guys talking about??, i have both RGB scart and component inputs TV's , two 21' (one with component, the other one has both composite and rgb through the scart input) and another 14' rgb scart european tv, all my consoles look the same no matter what method i choose, my Megadrive through RGB scart look the same on both TV's, using an atlona rgb scart to component converter on a tv with component inputs, or directly through the rgb scart input.

No quality loss using the rgb to component converter, component is the same as rgb but the way to get the same image is different, RGB and component quality using standard CRTs TV's is the same.
IMO component is even better, and this is the only difference, component requires less bandwith and thats why HDF tvs use component instead of 'pure' RGB.

Edit: as Joe Redifer pointed, an RGB monitor is the only thing better than a component crt tv, that is because its a monitor, wich are built better than ordinary tvs, monitors have a smaller dot matrix and higher screen refresh rates, but that doesnt means that rgb is better than component.

[Devil N]

I think what Zebbe pointed at is this: internally, the Mega Drive's software uses RGB values in its color palettes. That is, a game's graphics are initially constructed in RGB format. This is true for pretty much all real-time computer graphics, because RGB values are the easiest to work with in software.

On the other end of the line, a CRT TV always ends up displaying an image in RGB format, regardless of the incoming signal type. This is because a CRT reconstructs colors through red, green and blue phosphor dots on its screen, meaning the colors have to be in RGB before they can be displayed.

Now, if you want the least signal loss between MD and TV, using a direct RGB connection is ideal. Not a single color conversion is needed with that anywhere on the line. When you use a component connection on the other hand, a conversion is needed from RGB to YPbPr and back again to RGB, resulting in some loss of color fidelity. Granted, this loss is only minor and probably not visible to the naked eye, but it is there. That is why 'true' RGB can be considered the awesomest of all.

[omp]

Ah well I ordered my Scart cables (1 for my MD1/SMS2 and 1 for the 32X) and the magic box of sparks. It was cheaper to get both SCART cables from England AND the RGB-YUV box from the states than it was just to buy the box in Australia. The SCART cables and box came to $124AU inc postage. The box by itself in Australia was $129 + $10 postage. Go figure.....

[Zebbe]

I think what Zebbe pointed at is this: internally, the Mega Drive's software uses RGB values in its color palettes. That is, a game's graphics are initially constructed in RGB format. This is true for pretty much all real-time computer graphics, because RGB values are the easiest to work with in software.

On the other end of the line, a CRT TV always ends up displaying an image in RGB format, regardless of the incoming signal type. This is because a CRT reconstructs colors through red, green and blue phosphor dots on its screen, meaning the colors have to be in RGB before they can be displayed.

Now, if you want the least signal loss between MD and TV, using a direct RGB connection is ideal. Not a single color conversion is needed with that anywhere on the line. When you use a component connection on the other hand, a conversion is needed from RGB to YPbPr and back again to RGB, resulting in some loss of color fidelity. Granted, this loss is only minor and probably not visible to the naked eye, but it is there. That is why 'true' RGB can be considered the awesomest of all.

Yeah. And if you add what Joe said, a not-so-good CRT might make a visible difference between component and RGB. So just pick a great TV if you're the perfectionist (like me :P).

[chinitosoccer]

I think what Zebbe pointed at is this: internally, the Mega Drive's software uses RGB values in its color palettes. That is, a game's graphics are initially constructed in RGB format. This is true for pretty much all real-time computer graphics, because RGB values are the easiest to work with in software.

On the other end of the line, a CRT TV always ends up displaying an image in RGB format, regardless of the incoming signal type. This is because a CRT reconstructs colors through red, green and blue phosphor dots on its screen, meaning the colors have to be in RGB before they can be displayed.

Now, if you want the least signal loss between MD and TV, using a direct RGB connection is ideal. Not a single color conversion is needed with that anywhere on the line. When you use a component connection on the other hand, a conversion is needed from RGB to YPbPr and back again to RGB, resulting in some loss of color fidelity. Granted, this loss is only minor and probably not visible to the naked eye, but it is there. That is why 'true' RGB can be considered the awesomest of all.

I think you guys from Europe have never tried a CRT TV with component inputs,(HD lcd and plasma tvs dont count) i have both type of crt TV's, RGb scart and component.
RGB to YPbPr converters are not really 'converting' anything, and the process is not RGB>component>RGB again, is just RGB>component, theres no loss in quality, component just takes the RGB signal and supress the green color and tells the tv that all that isnt blue or red must be green, theres no loss in color, the picture quality is the same but the way to get the same image is diferent.


This is true for pretty much all real-time computer graphics, because RGB values are the easiest to work with in software.
DVD players, BD players, and newer PC graphics cards native signal is component, not RGB.

[Chilly Willy]

RGB to YPbPr converters are not really 'converting' anything, and the process is not RGB>component>RGB again, is just RGB>component, theres no loss in quality, component just takes the RGB signal and supress the green color and tells the tv that all that isnt blue or red must be green, theres no loss in color, the picture quality is the same but the way to get the same image is diferent.

RGB to YPbPr converts from RGB to component, as you say. At that point, the TV must convert YPbPr back to RGB since the output for CRTs, plasmas, and LCDs is RGB. That's their point: if the TV does a lousy job of converting component to RGB, the picture will look worse than if you just left it as RGB. Now, a GOOD TV should be able to convert YPbPr to RGB without noticeable artifacts.

[chinitosoccer]

Now, a GOOD TV should be able to convert YPbPr to RGB without noticeable artifacts.

That's for LCD or plasma TV's, CRT's dont have that problem.

[gamegenie]

I realized I have a RGB to YPbPr converter box in the form of a GrandTec Ultimate XP box. It takes VGA input and outputs it to Component, S-Video, mini-DIN RGB.

http://gdimg4.gmarket.co.kr/goods_image2/large_img/163/037/163037771.jpghttp://www.keenzo.com/pimg/Image/Products/300/GXP2000109.jpg

If I can find a female SCART to VGA adapter I will be able to use that cable from that ebay auction and hook up my Genesis to my HDTV via Component right?


I found this but I cannot determine if it's legit. http://salestores.com/optoma53.html
notice how it says male VGA/S-Video when those are clearly female

[Chilly Willy]

That's for LCD or plasma TV's, CRT's dont have that problem.

Sure they do. CRTs use RGB just like any other video display out. The major circuit in a normal CRT-based TV is the color matrix. And what is it's job? Converting YIQ to RGB. YIQ is the RF/composite version of YPbPr. CRT-based HDTVs that accept component in have to convert YPbPr to RGB just like an LCD or Plasma.

[tomaitheous]

Besides all the digital conversion going on between RGB and YUV color space, LCD (probably Plasma, but not sure on that) usually have poor color resolution - and also ignoring the fact that some devices might be outputting 4:2:2 VS 4:4:4 color space for YUV and vice versa. They usually have higher/double input refresh rate to get more color "fidelity".

[Joe Redifer]

That's for LCD or plasma TV's, CRT's dont have that problem.

Yeah they do. A number of CRTs I tried (and I ONLY tried CRTs) had a horrible image in component from my Genesis. It was very tough trying to find an acceptable TV to buy locally. I even bought one online and sent it back (I do not recommend buying TVs online).

[chinitosoccer]

Well i have 2 Phillips CRT with component inputs and none of them gave me any troubles with artifacts or washed colors on all my consoles through the atlona rgb scart to yuv, i do have noticed some issues on LCD and plasma TVS, but that was sometimes caused by the poor quality of the YUV cables being used, than the TV set components quality itself.

[tomaitheous]

but that was sometimes caused by the poor quality of the YUV cables being used, than the TV set components quality itself.

The cables must have been all rotten then :p

[chinitosoccer]

The cables must have been all rotten then :p

yes, taking the ps2 as refference, this set of cables are the rotten ones, 'Dragon' brand, this cables are known for giving problems when hooked to some models of LCD TV's, like artifacts and ghosting in a few games, i have tried this cable on crt tv's and it gave me no problems, the image is perfect.
http://sky2k.com/shop/images/big_component-ps2.jpg

and this are the fresh, good, fine preserved ones, notice the golden RCA plugs, this cable has also a better shielding to prevent from interferences on the signal, 'Monster' brand
http://imagenes.solostocks.com/z11741863/psp-monster-cable-cable-monster-ps3-yuv-2-rca.jpg