The Best Sega Genesis 2 ?....

[ooXxXoo]

ok, I remember having this Sega Genesis model 2 revision 2.3 some time ago, but don't know what ever happened to it....Today I picked up another one at a local drift...

I believe it was evildragon who told me that there weren't any Genesis 2 systems with the YAMAHA 2612 sound chip, just like some of the very earlier Genesis model 1 revisions had it....Until this day, I'm still amazed to find all kinds of possibilities....
This is most likely one of the best factory set Sega Genesis 2 out there...It has the YM2612 as well as the CXA1645M encoder (excuse the low res. pics)....

The motherboard layout

http://usera.imagecave.com/capcom2000/hpim8855.jpg

The YM2612 located nearest to the RESET button and oscillator..

http://usera.imagecave.com/capcom2000/hpim8869.jpg

Z80 totally at the opposite side (left) where usually can be found...

http://usera.imagecave.com/capcom2000/hpim8870.jpg

http://usera.imagecave.com/capcom2000/hpim8886.jpg]
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[Ace]

VA2.3??? Shit, I never saw such a motherboard revision. Looks like a VA2 with all the components rearranged and without that weird board in the center of everything. Does the VA2.3 have the silent/out of tune PSG problem like the VA2 does? Would you be able to record some sound clips from the console(plugged into a TV Capture Card or direct to your computer's Line In plug on the sound card)? If it has the weird PSG like the VA2, this is NOT the best Genesis 2. The VA2 ranks below the VA3/VA4, which get everything right using an ASIC-based YM2612.

[TmEE]

VA2 boards have way too quiet PSG level, and the sound quality is nothing remarkable.

I'd like a VA2 board to figure out a fix for its PSG level.

[Ace]

I have 2 VA2s, though I'm trying to figure out how to get proper PSG levels myself(practically dismantled the entire sound amplifier/mixer on one of my VA2s for that). Maybe I can ship it off to you if I can't figure out how to get the PSG sound levels right?

[kool kitty89]

I kind of like the look of the VA-4 board with the new ASIC encorporating the 68k, the board looks oddly empty and just interesting.

Of course, from a practial/modding POV the VA-3 is much more practical to overclock with the discrete QFP 68000. (I wouln't want to try soldering to the tiny pins of the ASIC, and of course you'd additionally need the pin-outs of the ASIC) Of course, you probably won't be going past 10 MHz on any M2 (they've all got the finicky VDP I beleive, even the VA-2), so going with any pre-VA-7 M1 is the best in that respect, plus the DIP 68k is a lot easier to work with. (you can solder onto the pins at the bottom of the board rather than the top, a lot more fogiving for mistakes and easier to arrange wires)


Ace, do all VA-3/4's hve the CXA1645 video encoder chip? Which ones had the crappy samsung one? (just the VA-0/1, or the VA-2 as well) You also mentioned all M1's either had the CXA1145 or MB3514, does this include the VA-7, or is that in the same boat as the M2 VA-0/1?



Genesis Model 1: it's a bit blurry, but it's the best overall for Composite video, as the sprites look less blocky. These use a Sony CXA1145 or Fujitsu MB3514.

Genesis Model 2: varies greatly; some have the same video quality as the Model 1 and use either the Sony or Fujitsu encoder, but others with the Samsung KA2195D encoder have blocky, pixellated, blurry, and noisy video. Those with a Sony CXA1645, on the other hand, are very sharp, making the sprites look a little blocky at times. Any Genesis with a CXA1645 have the brightest video output out of all the others.

Also, I've been wondering about this for a while: when you mention the blockiness of the CXA1645, do you mean artificial blockiness, or sharpness that makes the pixels more discernable? (is it closer to S-Video or RGB than the soft/blury video of the CXA1145?)

[Aarzak]

Has anybody here seen or owned the ever-so-elusive Majesco-produced Model 2's? I've only heard, but never seen of one. Majesco were the ones who sold the very last Model 2's before Sega went and put together the Genny 3 for them. Both had Majesco branding on them (the stickers that is). Anyone know what version of Model 2 they are?

[Ace]

Didn't Majesco sell the Genesis 2 with the MK-1451 model number? Those have a VA4 motherboard, I believe.


Ace, do all VA-3/4's hve the CXA1645 video encoder chip? Which ones had the crappy samsung one? (just the VA-0/1, or the VA-2 as well) You also mentioned all M1's either had the CXA1145 or MB3514, does this include the VA-7, or is that in the same boat as the M2 VA-0/1?

Up to VA3. There's a possibility that every motherboard revision of the Genesis 2 except for the VA4 has the KA2195D piece of shit. Theoretically speaking, all Model 1s should have the CXA1145/MB3514, though out of 2 VA7s I opened up, both have the CXA1145. That's not conclusive enough to determine if there are VA7 Genesis 1s with the Fujitsu MB3514. No Model 1s have the KA2195D, thank God.



Also, I've been wondering about this for a while: when you mention the blockiness of the CXA1645, do you mean artificial blockiness, or sharpness that makes the pixels more discernable? (is it closer to S-Video or RGB than the soft/blury video of the CXA1145?)

When a Genesis uses the CXA1645, you see the edges of sprites much more clearly, making them look a little blocky(I'm not talking about KA2195D poor-quality blocky, more like sharp-video blocky). CXA1645 encoders produce a much sharper picture than CXA1145s. While the quality of the CXA1645's composite video is high, it doesn't match the quality of the S-Video output.

[ooXxXoo]

Well, believe it or not, this 2.3 rev. has great quality sound and video, and I've seen so many Genesis in my day, but nothing relatively compared to this one if you actually pay attention....Unfortunately, can't capture any samples atm.....Is quite great, that's all I can say....I'm sure that there are plenty out there.....
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[Aarzak]

I'd like to any pics of the Majesco Model 2 if anyone has them.

[Ace]

Well, believe it or not, this 2.3 rev. has great quality sound and video, and I've seen so many Genesis in my day, but nothing relatively compared to this one if you actually pay attention....Unfortunately, can't capture any samples atm.....Is quite great, that's all I can say....I'm sure that there are plenty out there.....
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What I would really like to know is the PSG volume level. Do you have Thunder Force II? If so, you think you'd be able to film the game running on that VA2.3 Genesis 2? Also, have you tried playing any Sega Master System games on the console? If so, did you try out After Burner? If you did, do the explosion/missile/bullet sounds drown out the music? If that's the case, it's identical the VA2 in terms of sound.

[ooXxXoo]

Holy Moly!!!
@Ace, I just tested it with a SMS converter and Afterburner...Sounds Awesome and definitely different than the other revs....Also, there is no stripey video effect, like in most later revisions, quite annoying and noticeable if you know what I mean...
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[TmEE]

Maybe I can ship it off to you if I can't figure out how to get the PSG sound levels right?

that can work out, only problem will be in shipping costs though....

[kool kitty89]

Has anybody here seen or owned the ever-so-elusive Majesco-produced Model 2's? I've only heard, but never seen of one. Majesco were the ones who sold the very last Model 2's before Sega went and put together the Genny 3 for them. Both had Majesco branding on them (the stickers that is). Anyone know what version of Model 2 they are?

I thought the Genesis 3 was derived from TECTOY's Mega Drive III, hence the similarly poor audio quality. Had sega done it, I'd immagine the mixing circuit would be similar to the VA-4's which is quite nice.


I wonder why they did this revision on the Model 2, I cant immagine it was cost effective. (inless they got a bunch of YM2612's super cheap)
Did they get a bunch of complaints about the earlier Model 2's sound quality? (I somehow doubt this was the reason either)

[Ace]

No, the Genesis 3 uses a completely different sound amp than the TecToy MegaDrive III. TecToy's amp sucks, but Sega/Majesco used an LM324-based Mono-only sound circuit that produces sound just as good as the VA3/VA4 Genesis 2.

@OoXxXoO: Video, now! If I can hear that After Burner's sound effects don't drown out the music, I'm off to find myself a VA2.3 Genesis 2! Are there any ways of recognizing the VA2.3 Genesis 2, i.e. by where it's manufactured, differences inside the cartridge slot, etc?

[kool kitty89]

No, the Genesis 3 uses a completely different sound amp than the TecToy MegaDrive III. TecToy's amp sucks, but Sega/Majesco used an LM324-based Mono-only sound circuit that produces sound just as good as the VA3/VA4 Genesis 2.

Thanks for clearing that up, the sound amp in some of the clone consoles is similar to the TecToy one though, right? And the Genesis 3 lacks RGB connections to the A/V port, right?

[Ace]

From what I remember seeing on the VA2 Genesis 3 board, the only connection that's missing on the A/V port is Audio Right.

[kool kitty89]

So mono is conected to both audio right and the didicated mono pin? (I suppose that makes sense, allowing both stereo and mono Model 2 genesis a/v cables to be compatible)

This in mind, the Genesis 3 really does seem to be better than most clone systems. (with the exception that it doesn't have SVP compatibility -unmodded) Many of the clones have mono any way (does the FC 3 Plus have stereo), but I'd take clear mono with proper volume over the crappy stock sound of many clones in any case, along with RGB support and grear composite video and an encoder that's easier to mod for S-Video. (or the VA-0/1 M2, not sure how much I'd mins the volume problem with the VA-2, but I suspect I'd perfer nice mono there too)

The main advantage of many clones is either the combo systems, or simple compact size/portability (like the Atgames abomination), but the Genesis 3 is great for that too, and of course, a couple clones use the same case design as well. And, of course, it uses real Sega controllers. (well, so does the atgames thing, but that's hardly a consolation)

On top of that, the Genesis 3 sems to be fairly reasonably priced, and certainly competitive with current clones.

[Ace]

Actually, the Mono audio source on the Genesis 3 is connected to the Mono Audio pin and Audio LEFT. Audio Right is left disconnected on the motherboard.

Clones have Stereo sound, well, at least on the Gen-X and GN Twin, but because of that awful sound circuit, there's some "crosstalk" going on between the sound channels. If you were to, let's say, pull out the audio cable from the left sound output, if you stick your ear next to the speaker, you can hear the right sound output, but it's very faint. And just for the hell of it, I tried to hook up a Genesis 2 to that sound amp, and oddly enough, I was greeted by VERY LOUD and CLEAR sound. The only straining was with the PCM sound channel. Speaking of which, I still haven't made a circuit to clear out the sound on the Gen-X and GN Twin. I was going to make it based off the Genesis Model 1 Mono audio amp, but duplicated for Stereo sound.

With a little modding, you can also make the combo clones work with official Sega controllers. I split my GN Twin apart(NES board is still in the GN Twin) to take its Genesis board and stuff it in my Genesis 3, but since I had no clue where the NES controller signals go, I figured it was the perfect opportunity to find out how to get Genesis controllers working on the GN Twin(and Gen-X). And it worked! All that's need is 9 strands of wire and a DB9 plug.

DO NOT GO FOR THE VA0/VA1 GENESIS 2! Most of the time, you'll be greeted with disgusting video quality and a video encoder that DOES NOT output the S-Video signals. While the sound can easily be improved by using TmEE's Audio Mod circuit, improving video quality requires swapping the KA2195D video encoder with either a Fujitsu MB3514 or Sony CXA1145M. You must use the surface-mount variety, and that's where problems start, because it's hard enough to remove surface components, but then, where will you find the right video encoder other than pulling it out from a VA7 Genesis Model 1?

[TmEE]

in Europe, the VA1 variety of MD2s seems most common, and majority have the Fujitsu encoder at least... image is still nothing good, at least not compared to RGB output.

[Ace]

It's the same here: VA1/1.8 is the most common Genesis 2 motherboard revision, but practically ALL OF THEM use Samsung's KA2195D. I did notice something: Nathanallan showed me some pictures of different Genesis 2s, and they have different encoders depending on where they were manufactured. All of my VA1/1.8s are either made in Taiwan, China or Japan. All have the KA2195D. From the pictures Nathan showed, Genesis 2s made in Malaysia contain the Fujitsu MB3514. Some "Made in Japan" Genesis 2s also have the CXA1145, but mine has the KA2195D. Where are the majority of the MegaDrive IIs you've owned/seen made in?

[TmEE]

I think all I have seen were made in China, all my 3x MD2s are Chinese and all have Fujitsu chip.

[FoxHound]

How is the VA0 board in the MD2? My Parts Genesis has that board

[chessage]

DO NOT GO FOR THE VA0/VA1 GENESIS 2! Most of the time, you'll be greeted with disgusting video quality and a video encoder that DOES NOT output the S-Video signals.

Great, looks like I wasted $20 on my VA1 model. When I first used it with an RF switch the screen lines were bad and I thought it was a problem with the RF switch, but once I switched to a composite cable nothing had changed. The audio doesn't seem to be the best either. I'm still waiting for a nice Model 1 to show up somewhere for a low price...

[TmEE]

How is the VA0 board in the MD2? My Parts Genesis has that board

on analog area, its identical to VA1. On digital side, it uses 2 more chips... 2x 8bit instead of single 16bit one for main RAMs, and 2x DP-DRAM chips instead of single one.

[Aarzak]

I've owned three Model 2's in my Genesis "career", though I never knew which revision(s) they were. Something that irked me about the Model 2's was the "jaggies" at the end of the text and sprites. It seems as if the picture output was so sharp that it left these "jaggies" at the end of damn near everything (text, sprites, backgrounds). I recall the 2nd Model 2 that I owned (between 2001-2002) having decent sound, but the reset button was dead (I've known of several people whose Model 2's had jacked-up Power/Reset buttons). The 3rd Model 2 that I owned (from 2002-2006) however, had BRUTAL sound quality with lots of audible noise and overall muddiness. I'm not sure if it was the A/V cables that I was using (dunno if they were third-party), but I HATED playing with it. I owned a Genny 3 at one point, and loved its picture/sound quality. It was the best of any Genny I owned. I heard that some outputted Stereo sound, is this true?

A few weeks after I bought that last Model 2, I ended up discovering emulation, and have never looked back since. :D When I sold all of my pre-Dreamcast gaming stuff, that Model 2 was unsellable as it wasn't working properly for the owners of the store when they were trying it out. I still regret selling that virtually NEW Derby Stallion Sega Saturn for $30.......OUCH............

Have any of you been hands-on with the Majesco Model 2's?

[ooXxXoo]

Well, just think about it...It has the YM2612.....Same as they used for the sound syntethizers....That'll give you an idea....

Personally I never seen a Genesis model 2 with the MB3514, only in sega CDX systems...


No, the Genesis 3 uses a completely different sound amp than the TecToy MegaDrive III. TecToy's amp sucks, but Sega/Majesco used an LM324-based Mono-only sound circuit that produces sound just as good as the VA3/VA4 Genesis 2.

@OoXxXoO: Video, now! If I can hear that After Burner's sound effects don't drown out the music, I'm off to find myself a VA2.3 Genesis 2! Are there any ways of recognizing the VA2.3 Genesis 2, i.e. by where it's manufactured, differences inside the cartridge slot, etc?

[Ace]

You seem to be missing my question: do the sound effects in After Burner completely drown out the music(you don't hear it at all when sound effects are playing)? It does that on my VA2, and I want to know if the VA2.3 fixes that problem.

By the way, where's your VA2.3 made, and how would I go about recognizing one if the cartridge slot is held open(it doesn't have the wires like the VA2, so I guess it makes it a little harder. I'd need a picture of the cartridge slot held open)?

[gamegenie]

This thread defies all logic of what we know about Model 2 (Compaq Design labeled) Sega Genesis/Megadrive II systems.

Please tell me what the manufacture year is labeled on your system.