Hagane V.S Shinobi

[Blaze]

to those who dont know, hagane is a super nintendo sleeper hit that was released in 94 by Hudson. Ive played both the shinobi series and this masterpiece and i must admit, Hagane towers over all 3 games (shinobi 3, shadow dancers and return) in every aspect. Another bash on hardcore fanboys in general (oh u taught we didnt have this on snes huh? too bad cause u missed out. Shinobi was cleary a huge influence on this gem but in terms of gameplay, trust it feels like a very diffrent art, not jus in game mechanics but also technicaly. its a whole diffrent ball game/ we had ALOT of sleeper hits on the snes. Not jus mario, link and Donkey Kong)


jus my opinion tho...


p.s / shout out to Genesis fans worldwide for keepin its essence intact for over 2 decades



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YdRgbEj7Jw

[Kollision]

The game seems to be good.
But I had the feeling it plays more like Strider than Shinobi.

[Iron Lizard]

It was all my fault. I made sure that no one ever knew Hagane was ever released. I have a warehouse full of them.

[Blaze]

The game seems to be good.
But I had the feeling it plays more like Strider than Shinobi.



ur right about that, infact its more of a mixed bag. thats what makes this game a masterpiece even in todays standards...its a Cross-genre that manages to do the job right while payimg homage to classics sush as Shinobi, Strider & Ninja Gaiden. In many ways it surpasses them (kinda like what Kill Bill did to Old Westerns & Kung Fu Fliks...in many ways it was better than alot of them). Gaming needs more of these


+ the game is rare



Iron Lizard, im not quite sure of what u ment when u said "i made sure no one knew hagane was ever released" but trust its jus me bashin ignorrant fanboys from both nintendo & sega camps. Video game fans in general knew both systems had alot more to offer than the media potrayed, and both got dat mutual respect for one another. Personaly im on the snes camp but dang, Genesis iz one da greatest of all times.


Hagane still owns tho, hehe. Shin dont stand a chance against this beast (grenades, xplosives, swords, bombs, hook shots, magic spells, projectiles, acro batiks.....)




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZ8Oycx9_LI&feature=related

[Joe Redifer]

Doesn't look like a bad game. A bit too fast to be compared with any Shinobi game, though. Scrolling and control look like they might be a bit twitchy.

[sketch]

This game is on my short list of games to get for my SNES. I'm not much of a Nintendo fan, but the SNES itself is a good machine. I plan on picking up exclusives that aren't available on the little black box but are my type of games. Since I dig ninja games, this is definitely one of them.

Two things I noticed from the video. It's probably just the one stage, but playing from right to left is disconcerting:) I'm so used to going the other way. The other thing I noticed is that this game plays like part Shinobi and part Strider, yes, but it also plays like part shmup. I watched another level and there was a lot of dodging of obstacles, negotiating corridors, and avoiding attacks that pop on screen. Definitely reminded me of a shmup, except your guy doesn't fly. He does, however, seem to be on the move constantly.

I'll reserve judgement as to whether or not this game is better than the Shinobi series, but I'm one of the oddballs who thinks Shadow Dancer is the best of that series. My only reservation about Hagane is there looks to be a bit of platform jumping, which I'm not huge on (which is why I like Shadow Dancer as it eschews platforming completely).

[Rusty Venture]

I've watched a few level clips for this game and all I can say is: I really don't like the SNES soundchip. Explosions always sound flat.

I don't know what Konami did to make sound the way it did for "Turtles in Time", but that is the *least* SNES sounding game on that system.

[Christuserloeser]

I have the game myself, but not played it much (yet). Reminded me more of the Super Shinobis than Strider, but the videos make it look lot more Strider-esque.


The game was developed by former Technosoft staff, who also did Lords of Thunder and Mario Party:
http://gdri.smspower.org/wiki/index.php/Company:CAProduction

[Pulstar]

It never ceases to amaze me how many emulation virgins are out there.. Anyway in the May 1995 issue CVG rated Hagane a whopping 91%.. They even compared it to Super Metroid (which was wise of them). I tried playing the game on the DS a few times but the less-than-smooth scrolling—as with most SNES games—just put me off!

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/7946/cvghaganep1.th.jpg (http://img204.imageshack.us/i/cvghaganep1.jpg/)http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/4096/cvghaganep2a.th.jpg (http://img195.imageshack.us/i/cvghaganep2a.jpg/)http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/3416/cvghaganep3.th.jpg (http://img24.imageshack.us/i/cvghaganep3.jpg/)http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/3264/cvghaganep4.th.jpg (http://img406.imageshack.us/i/cvghaganep4.jpg/)http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/3619/cvghaganep5.th.jpg (http://img525.imageshack.us/i/cvghaganep5.jpg/)http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/3439/cvghaganep6.th.jpg (http://img199.imageshack.us/i/cvghaganep6.jpg/)

[CRV]

The game was developed by former Technosoft staff, who also did Lords of Thunder and Mario Party:
http://gdri.smspower.org/wiki/index.php/Company:CAProduction

...MIGHT have done Lords of Thunder...

[jesus.arnold]

Hagane is a very good action game on SNES (maybe the best) and is certainly one of my favourites but I don't think it is better than Shinobi III (the game that it is a blatant clone of from start to finish)

1. Hagane's difficulty curve is inferior and more trial and error based
2. Hagane's controls are less fluid (SIII's running moves and air kicks are superior)
3. Nintendo censoring rearing it's ugly head again, if I'm playing a ninja game then I want to be a Ninja sword slashing bad guys, not a Cyborg-Ninja thingy fighting robots and aliens.

Saying that though it's quite close between the two, though Shinobi gets extra points by me for being the original and Hagane didn't come out until really late in the generation lifespan around 94'

Things I like better in Hagane

1. The music is higher quality (though Shinobi III's music is still ok)
2. Although the fighting system is worse the weapons system is better

[Christuserloeser]

Really not sure about the music, and I doubt that the game was censored.

The graphics however do look pretty TF4-ish upon closer inspection...

[jesus.arnold]

and I doubt that the game was censored.I mean that Nintendo's censoring policy probably caused Hagane to be made like this from the design stage, running around slashing people with a sword is not very family friendly and they already had a history of replacing humanoid characters with robots to avoid this issue (see the PAL version of Contra on NES)

[Christuserloeser]

I know what you mean, but they would have to license their game via Nintendo of Japan, and they probably had different policies as their European or North-American dependancies.

[jesus.arnold]

I know what you mean, but they would have to license their game via Nintendo of Japan, and they probably had different policies as their European or North-American dependancies.I'm not sure what the Japanese policies were but during the SNES era Nintendo of America had strict policies against excessive violence and any graphic depiction of death, games were not alowed to use the terms "kill" "killed" "die" or "death" guns (and throwing knives) were rarely allowed to be used by humans against other humans in a realistic setting, and enemies had to dissapear when "defeated" the only big exception Nintendo allowed was with the Mortal Kombat games and only after a lot of criticism and lost profits.

This was quite a late game in the SNES lifespan, so by this stage if Japanese stipulations were more lax the developers were probably wise to the fact that they'd have to release a Japanese version and then go through the game changing everything for western audiences and thought they'd might as well create one version for all markets which would've been more efficient.

Of course the developers might've just really liked robots, cyborgs and aliens :D I'm just saying that Shinobi III could never of been released on the SNES without changes (I guess everyone could've been converted into robots and aliens, or the blood could've been turned into "sweat" :p)

[Zebbe]

Looked like a boring Shinobi rip-off with the same muffled music most other SNES games have. Shinobi wins!

[Rusty Venture]

I'm not sure what the Japanese policies were but during the SNES era Nintendo of America had strict policies against excessive violence and any graphic depiction of death, games were not alowed to use the terms "kill" "killed" "die" or "death" guns (and throwing knives) were rarely allowed to be used by humans against other humans in a realistic setting, and enemies had to dissapear when "defeated" the only big exception Nintendo allowed was with the Mortal Kombat games and only after a lot of criticism and lost profits.

Good old Nintendo, "we have values that we strictly adhere to, but we make exceptions when massive money is at stake".

Yay hypocrisy!

[Blaze]

Hagane is a very good action game on SNES (maybe the best) and is certainly one of my favourites but I don't think it is better than Shinobi III (the game that it is a blatant clone of from start to finish)

1. Hagane's difficulty curve is inferior and more trial and error based
2. Hagane's controls are less fluid (SIII's running moves and air kicks are superior)
3. Nintendo censoring rearing it's ugly head again, if I'm playing a ninja game then I want to be a Ninja sword slashing bad guys, not a Cyborg-Ninja thingy fighting robots and aliens.



on number 1, ive played both at maximum difficulty...always had a harder time beatin hagane but then again it all comes down to the player. Respect is mutual

on number 2, again it all comes down to the player. Respect is mutual

on number 3, id say thats a bit bias. Sure Nintendo had its censorship policy but it did not prevent numerous developpers to put out games with darker tones after the SNes's second renessaince (94). They learned from that mistake since Mortal Kombat, thus MK II outsold the genesis version and was considerd to be one of the greatest arcade ports of all time

Theres plenty of that on the snes (religion, war, end of the world, betrayl ect...). Most didnt make it to the U.S so be sure to chek em out, where ever u r. (p.s, Hagane feels like a very diffrent game to Shinobi 3 both technicaly and in gameplay. Similarties r there but ya cant judge a game based on its influence cause we all learn from sumthin at one point or the other. Thats how we improve. Hence...Hagane. But thats just me mate, respect is mutual)





Zebbe, try playing it first, with a real snes controller and ul realize this game is a whole diffrent ball.

The shinobi influence on Hagane's "artistic" style is evident pretty much like the "Ninja" myth was on Shinobi, Strider & Ninja Gaiden. But rest assured, this game stands on its own and acts more as a spiritual successor rather than a rip off (like Symphony of The Night was to Super Metroid, or Perfect Dark was to Goldeneye). It improves on alot of them (performing all those acro batiks/stunts with elegance requires skill, tight reflexes and instinct. Brilliantly designed)




peace (hehe, i hate seing a lone sheep..)

[jesus.arnold]

on number 1, ive played both at maximum difficulty...always had a harder time beatin hagane but then again it all comes down to the player. Respect is mutualI have no problems with the difficulty of either, the point is that Hagane requires more trial and error instead of basic skill, it also has a pretty shoddy difficulty curve, games should start off relatively simple and ease you in becoming steadily more difficult as the game progresses, Hagane doesn't do this at all which is poor design


on number 2, again it all comes down to the player.Yes it does, if you were any good at Shinobi III you'd know that the running slash/dodge and forward strike flying kicks make it a much more fluid game than Hagane, which for the most part has you shuffling along slashing or using that ridiculous flip move which is quite frankly useless in 95% of situations and is only really any good for showing off, not only this but I'd also like to note that Shinobi III pretty much perfectly swaps automatically between sword and Kunai seemlessly as opposed to the manual cycling through weapons in Hagane that can be a hassle at times.


Hagane feels like a very diffrent game to Shinobi 3 both technicaly and in gameplay.I dissagree, Hagane's gameplay is directly and obviously inspired by Shinobi III. Just straight looking at it we've got a game where you swap between Sword and Kunai's (which are limited) loads of precision based throwing, clamping onto ceilings and hanging/swinging (used mostly in levels with acid/lava style hazards in both), wall bouncing, air based flying kick downward attacks and automatic scrolling levels (in Shinobi III you're on horseback or surf board whilst in Hagane you are simply running)

Not to take away from Hagane's obvious merit as it's still a phenominal game for it's time and still in the same highest tier of 16-bit action games (with Shinobi III), it has multiple ideas of it's own such as the new weapons choices and big set-pieces usually using the SNES' graphics chip, it's own theme is also original and pretty good, though as I said if I want a ninja game personally i'd rather not have it toned down and sci-fi-ised


It improves on alot of them (performing all those acro batiks/stuns with elegance requires skill, tight reflexes and instinct. Brilliantly designed)I would only ever count the acrobatic stunts in the game as a gimmick and nothing else, as I said before 95% of the time you are better off using a different move. Most people use those flips the first few times they play and quickly realise that they are next to worthless unless you want to spend ages memorising the exact times to use them.

[Blaze]

I would only ever count the acrobatic stunts in the game as a gimmick and nothing else, as I said before 95% of the time you are better off using a different move. Most people use those flips the first few times they play and quickly realise that they are next to worthless unless you want to spend ages memorising the exact times to use them.



I enjoyed mastering them (works brilliantly. In essence i believe, is what the game's engine was built for. Mastering those stunts n ballancing them out with the art). The overal feeling just suited me better than that of Shin III due to its greater sense of freedom & elegance (gotta love dat game too, was it not for it and perhaps Strider...Hagane wulda turned out much diffrent).



cheers tho (hehe, Hagane kiks Shin's butt;))

[Melf]

I really liked Hagane. It's quite underrated, imo.

[jesus.arnold]

Just taking back my previous "new weapons choices" statement, I've just been reading this article on Hardcore Gaming http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/hagane/hagane.htm

And the guy is quite right, Hagane's weapon system is taken wholesale from Ninja Spirit.

I do feel that the Hardcore Gaming dude is being a little hard on the game in this write-up though.

[Blaze]

I do feel that the Hardcore Gaming dude is being a little hard on the game in this write-up though.


hehe, it all comes down to the player right? :cool:



bah...I dont get why he keeps bashing Hagane's game design either. But u kno what they say, "get in where u fit in"


Hudson put alot of effort and sweat into this project and it shows once uve learned mastering it (not an easy feet by any means ..full mechanical carnage. dats wut got me hooked, its not ment for everyone)

[Da_Shocker]

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[Blaze]

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uh huh....and ur sooo coooool :daze:




seriously dude grow up :?. If u want real blood go pik a fight wit sum1 on the street




U had ur blood on TV with MK 1 wich was OKAY, we had MK II wich was better n from there had tons of those "im soo coool" games come out but only more polished and refined (thats right, on the super nintendo). Too bad u missed em, cause most of em only made it out in Asia & Europe (nintendo had long figured it had its share of mature audiences in those territories for a looong time)

[Rusty Venture]

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I don't even understand why this got made for the SNES.

No Nazi shooting, no blood...whats the point?

I suppose if this game was going to make a ton of $$ for Nintendo, they might have let it come out untouched...

"But it was good to have a version on a home console" Yeah, well you can play the original version on any computer today, who cares about this "clean" version?

[Blaze]

I don't even understand why this got made for the SNES.

No Nazi shooting, no blood...whats the point?

I suppose if this game was going to make a ton of $$ for Nintendo, they might have let it come out untouched...

"But it was good to have a version on a home console" Yeah, well you can play the original version on any computer today, who cares about this "clean" version?

if u want real blood, go pik a fight wit sum1 on the street



if u like genesis over snes, go pik up ur gens. Nintendo never forced u to buy one of theyr 16bits, The Yakuza trying to rob them on the snes launch day in japan is "gangster" enuff


stop bitching and grow up

[Rusty Venture]

Looks like someone is in the running for Sega-16's Mr. Popular contest!

[Blaze]

Looks like someone is in the running for Sega-16's Mr. Popular contest!

hehe, its all good mate, lets jus stik on topic ;)




bak on topic, Hagane still takes my vote over Shin III

[TheEdge]

Never played Hagane but it seems like a bootleg of Strider.

Anyone here have the Shinobi for Saturn? And how is it? It seems OK but the live-action digitized graphic makes me suspicious.

[jesus.arnold]

U had ur blood on TV with MK 1 wich was OKAY, we had MK II wich was better n from there had tons of those "im soo coool" games come out but only more polished and refined (thats right, on the super nintendo). Too bad u missed em, cause most of em only made it out in Asia & EuropeEurope was usually more censored than America. I'm actually in the middle (and have been for quite some time) of making a list of 100 best SNES games for my website and I really haven't come accross that many violent SNES games so far, one of the more notable only released in Japan is Majuu Ou which is a horror themed platformer.

[TheEdge]

[QUOTE=jesus.arnold;167557]. I'm actually in the middle (and have been for quite some time) of making a list of 100 best SNES games for my website QUOTE]

Top 100 Best SNES games? I didn't think there were more than 10.

And do I have to remind you they are the enemy? We are still at war here and advertising for the opposite side will be deemed TREASON!

HAIL GENESIS! HAIL!

[Da_Shocker]

Never played Hagane but it seems like a bootleg of Strider.

Anyone here have the Shinobi for Saturn? And how is it? It seems OK but the live-action digitized graphic makes me suspicious.

It's a pretty good game the digitized graphics are ass though. But in this game you rely more on you sword rather than the shurukins(sp).

[jesus.arnold]

. I'm actually in the middle (and have been for quite some time) of making a list of 100 best SNES games for my website

Top 100 Best SNES games? I didn't think there were more than 10.

And do I have to remind you they are the enemy? We are still at war here and advertising for the opposite side will be deemed TREASON!

HAIL GENESIS! HAIL!I'm trying to make top 100 lists for every single popular gaming machine, after the SNES it's probably going to be the PS1 or Amiga I'm not sure yet.

[jesus.arnold]

Anyone here have the Shinobi for Saturn? And how is it? It seems OK but the live-action digitized graphic makes me suspicious.This should show you what you need to know, if you think this intro's "cool" then I'm sure you'll be able to stomach the graphics style pretty well.

xw1Lf0sJTHI

[Christuserloeser]

(somehow didn't notice jesus.arnold's post)


Anyone here have the Shinobi for Saturn? And how is it? It seems OK but the live-action digitized graphic makes me suspicious.

Shin Shinobi Den / Legends / X is not as good as the Super Shinobis (Revenge of Shinobi & Shinobi III), but otherwise it's a really, really good game. One of my favorite Saturn games.

a6M3bu6_KLY

[Rusty Venture]

It's my favorite Saturn Shinobi game!

[Blaze]

Europe was usually more censored than America. I'm actually in the middle (and have been for quite some time) of making a list of 100 best SNES games for my website and I really haven't come accross that many violent SNES games so far, one of the more notable only released in Japan is Majuu Ou which is a horror themed platformer.


there over 5000 games on the snes, dwarfing Genesis's 700. (so good luk on finding what ur looking 4 :daze:)


if ur talkin about violent as in gore, theyr werent dat many bak in the 16bit era in general (nowdays its become mainstream pretty much like in the movies. it sells, not necessairly cause its good). But if ur lookin for "darker themes"...u got Terranigma (Enix of Europe wuld not release it in the U.S cause of its religious overtones), Ninja Warriors Again (jap versio had BLOOOOOOOOOOOOOD oh my), Final Fight 3, Knights of the Round, Mk II, Actraiser (jap version had some of ur ppl committing suicide), Breath of Fire II (jap version, its been re-translated in english), Final Fantasy 6 (jap version also, uncensored) n others. Most were jap indeed so it will be hard (and trust me theyr plenty more). A notable example r the huuuuuuge amount of beat em ups/fighting genres, snes had more of those than gens (too many to name, most of wich were gr8 even when translated)


Also, Lets remember that both the snes and genesis came up together from a diffrent era of gaming. Bak then gore violence in a video game was a huge deal but its slowly been accepted and its more of a gimmik to sell units/ pretty much like the hundreds of Mario clones bak in the 90s. History repeats itself..its like now u seem to see millions of MMORPG pop up too (most suk)




ps., this dude got skill, nice speedrun of hagane http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vf6_QKjM-7Y

[Iron Lizard]

there over 5000 games on the snes. (so good luk on finding what ur looking 4 :daze:)


if ur talkin about violent as in gore, theyr werent dat many bak in the 16bit era (nowdays its become mainstream pretty much like in the movies. it sells, not necessairly cause its good). But if ur lookin for "darker themes"...u got Terranigma (Enix of America wuld not release it in the U.S cause of its religious overtones), Ninja Warriors Again (jap versio had BLOOOOOOOOOOOOOD oh my), Final Fight 3, Mk II, Actraiser (jap version had some of ur ppl committing suicide), Breath of Fire II (jap version, its been re-translated in english), Final Fantasy 6 (jap version also, uncensored) n others. Most were jap indeed so it will be hard


Also, Lets remember that both the snes and genesis came from a diffrent era of gaming. Bak then gore violence in a video game was a huge deal but its slowly been accepted and its more of a gimmik to sell units/ pretty much like the hundreds of Mario clones bak in the 90s. History repeats itself



Where did you get that number from?

[Blaze]

Where did you get that number from?



www.snes.fr


best super nintendo site ever (and one of the last few that is still being heavily updated). Its in french and rivals this site as the primary source for everyting Super NES


check out the rom section for yourself and count (good luk on that too :daze:)

[Blaze]

sorry wrong link


http://www.snes-fr.com/

[jesus.arnold]

there over 5000 games on the snes, dwarfing Genesis's 700. (so good luk on finding what ur looking 4 :daze:)Has anyone ever told you you're full of some serious sh#t? :rofl:

There's about 800 SNES games and a large number of those are Japanese exclusive dating sims and the like, I don't know how many Mega Drive games there are but there's certainly more than 700, and the library is not bogged down by dating sims and such either.


if you're talking about violent as in gore, there weren't that many back in the 16-bit era in general (nowadays its become mainstream pretty much like in the movies. it sells, not necessairly cause its good).Actually the Mega Drive has a good few gory games on it tbh.


But if ur lookin for "darker themes"...u got Terranigma (Enix of Europe wuld not release it in the U.S cause of its religious overtones), Ninja Warriors Again (jap versio had BLOOOOOOOOOOOOOD oh my), Final Fight 3, Knights of the Round, Mk II, Actraiser (jap version had some of ur ppl committing suicide), Breath of Fire II (jap version, its been re-translated in english), Final Fantasy 6 (jap version also, uncensored) n others. Most were jap indeed so it will be hard (and trust me theyr plenty more).You consider Actraiser, Night Warriors and Knights of the Round to have dark themes? :?


A notable example r the huuuuuuge amount of beat em ups/fighting genres, snes had more of those than gens (too many to name, most of wich were gr8 even when translated)They had around the same, I've gone through them in the past for my website, most of them aren't worth bothering with on either console tbh.

[jesus.arnold]

God-dammit I keep finding different numbers all over the net (none of them are anywhere near 5000 for SNES/SF of course though :lol:), anyone know a reliable source for this?

Numbers for the SNES range from around 700 to 2000 :daze:

Numbers for the Mega Drive range from 600 to 1200 :daze:

EDIT:Woops scratch that highest SNES number off, 1300 odd Super Famicom games plus 700 odd SNES games does not make 2000 (most of them would be doubles DOH! :bang:)

[awack]

From my understanding, there are approximately 1500, not including Satellaview games.

[Rusty Venture]

Has anyone ever told you you're full of some serious sh#t? :rofl:

This is why French websites are not to be trusted. :nod:

[sketch]

Strange no one is referencing this very site's game list, which clocks in at a healthy 936 games (Genesis games, that is)...

A quick perusal of the 'net shows SNES around a thousand. Both of these were successful machines with roughly 1/2 of the market and similar lifespans, so I doubt the SNES has significantly more games than the Genesis. 5000 to 700 is, quite frankly, ludicrous. Since it was more popular in its home country, I have a feeling the difference in games is likely made up of Japanese games...

[jerry coeurl]

(somehow didn't notice jesus.arnold's post)



Shin Shinobi Den / Legends / X is not as good as the Super Shinobis (Revenge of Shinobi & Shinobi III), but otherwise it's a really, really good game. One of my favorite Saturn games.

a6M3bu6_KLY

Agreed 1000 fucking percent. I don't care what anyone says, Shinobi Legions is a great fucking game. Tough as nails, but absolutely worth playing. The digitized graphics only add to the charm in my opinion. I payed around 20 bucks for it and it was worth every penny. A much better game than Shadow Dancer, truth be told.

e: to the dude who said there's 5000 snes games, what the hell are you smoking and can I have some please cause it must be gooooooood

[acdc]

to be honest i didn t like the controls of this game
and shinobi 3 i like that more

[Phexar]

(somehow didn't notice jesus.arnold's post)



Shin Shinobi Den / Legends / X is not as good as the Super Shinobis (Revenge of Shinobi & Shinobi III), but otherwise it's a really, really good game. One of my favorite Saturn games.

a6M3bu6_KLY

Huh, that brings back memories of me seeing images of that game over a decade ago. I did indeed think those 'giant shadow' things were neat, though I never really knew of the game itself. Good to see that the game itself appears neat, too.

[Blaze]

Has anyone ever told you you're full of some serious sh#t? :rofl:



my fault on that, (I miss-read)


more around 1500 games (aprox) while gens is close to a thousand or so (im not gonna debate on wether wich had tbe greater numbers of dark themed games, cause in the end it all comes down to the player. And as Sketch mentioned, the diffrence lays in the jap releases for the most part so chek those out)


heres my top 100 snes game list btw, I read sumwhere u were trying to make one. Sorry for the inacuracies


- Top 100 SNES

Actraiser
Adventures of Batman & Robin
Assault Suits Valken
Axelay
Breath of Fire II
Castlevania - Dracula X
Chrono Trigger
Cold Shadow
Contra III - The Alien Wars
Demon's Crest
Donkey Kong Country
Donkey Kong Country 2 - Diddy's Kong Quest
Dragon Ball Z - Hyper Dimension
Dragon Quest III
Earthbound
Earthworm Jim
Earthworm Jim 2
Equinox
F Zero
F-1 Pole Position 2
FIFA International Soccer
Final Fantasy IV
Final Fantasy VI
Final Fight 3
Fire Emblem IV - Genealogy of Holy War
Flashback - The Quest for Identity
Front Mission
Front Mission - Gun Hazard
Gundam Wing - Endless Duel
Hagane
Harvest Moon
International Superstar Soccer
Killer Instinct
King of Dragons
Kirby's Dream Course
Kirby Super Star
Knights Of The Round
Looney Tunes B-Ball
Mechwarrior
Mega Man X
Mega Man X2
Metal Combat - Falcon's Revenge
Mortal Kombat II
NBA Jam - Tournament Edition
NBA Live 96
NHL Hockey 98
Ninja Warriors Again
Ogre Battle - March Of The Black Queen
Parodius 2 - Fantastic Journey
Pilotwings
Prince Of Persia
R-Type III - The Third Lightning
Return of Double Dragon
Rockman & Forte
Rudra's Treasure
Samurai Showdown
Saturday Night Slam Masters
Secret of Evermore
Secret of Mana
Seiken Densetsu 3
Sim City
Space Megaforce
Sparkster
Spider-Man & Venom - Maximum Carnage
Star Fox
Star Fox 2 (unreleased final beta)
Street Fighter Alpha 2
Street Racer
Stunt Race FX
Super Bomberman
Super Castlevania IV
Super Empire Strikes Back
Super Ghouls N'Ghosts
Super Mario All-stars & World
Super Mario Kart
Super Mario RPG - Legend of The Seven Stars
Super Metroid
Super Punch Out!!
Super Return of The Jedi
Super Street Fighter II - The New Challengers
Super Tennis
Super Turrican 2
Tales of Phantasia
Tecmo Super Bowl III - Final Edition
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles IV - Turtles In Time
Terranigma
Tetris & Dr Mario
Tetris Attack
Top Gear 2
Top Gear 3000
U.N Squadron
Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3
Uncharted Waters - New Horizons
Uniracers
Wild Guns
X-men - Mutant Apocalypse
X-Zone
Yoshi's Island
Zelda - A Link To The Past
Zombies Ate My Neighbors







snes 4eva, pEACE

[Blaze]

this culd help for gens fans

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ogcpl1Ajbbg&feature=related

[jesus.arnold]

That looks like a pretty solid list you've made there, there's a handful of games on it I've yet to play so I'll definately check them out, thanks

[sketch]

That is a nice list; I'm a SNES noob so I like lists like these to give me ideas. Right now I'm focusing on SNES exclusives, since I'm not made of money:) If I was made of money, I'd collect whatever came under my nose, and I'd also run out and buy a Neo Geo AES:)

Edit: No love for Bust a Move?

[Blaze]

That is a nice list; I'm a SNES noob so I like lists like these to give me ideas. Right now I'm focusing on SNES exclusives, since I'm not made of money:) If I was made of money, I'd collect whatever came under my nose, and I'd also run out and buy a Neo Geo AES:)

Edit: No love for Bust a Move?


Yea i see what u mean (im broke too brutha). I use emulation, along with the Retro USB Snes game pad. My old snes broke down 11 years ago (u gotta love the oldschool) :cool:



Yea Bust A Move... (Tetris & Dr Mario won that bet), theres alot of em that had to be left out in order to make the top 100 (mega man x3, donkey kong country 3, Tactics Ogre, Final Fantasy 5, ganbare goemon 4, bahamut lagoon, super bomberman 3, marvel super heroes war of the gems, super turrican.....sh*t:daze:)



Jesus Arnold, not a prob. Respect is mutual brotha ;)





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqVf-jhS0Dc

[Joe Redifer]

Do I get to be your brutha, too??? I only have one sister.

[Christuserloeser]

Regarding the number of games available for each platform:

There are 11337 known Super NES/Famicom ROMs (as of GoodSNES v2.04)

GoodMerge combines them to 1861 archives for better compression. Still, some unreleased prototypes, Satellaview games, BIOS dumps, etc., are listed separately. I'd say there are something like 1200 to 1600 individual games that were released as actual cartridges.


There are 5871 known Sega Genesis/Mega Drive ROMs (as of GoodGen v3.00). - The difference in comparision to SNES is that most Genesis / Mega Drive games up to 1993 were released as multi-region carts with the Japanese and English versions on one single cartridge.
Also, Nintendo used to translate their games into each of the European languages right from the beginning while Sega did that with only a very few games such as Landstalker and Soleil (but not with e.g. Shining Force II and Phantasy Star IV). That means that on SNES there are dozens of different ROM dumps for the same game but in different localizations, while on Genesis a good number of games only have one dump that's compatible with European, Japanese and US hardware.
Also there are more fan translations available for SNES than for Mega Drive / Genesis.

Anyway, GoodMerge combines these 5871 ROMs to 1074 archives for better compression. Still, there are a handful of 32X games, never released prototypes, SegaNet games, BIOS dumps, etc.pp. - 900 actual games seems realistic.


~900 games for Genesis and ~1400 games for SNES.

A reason for the difference would be that the SNES was supported until 1998 or something, and had its second spring when the Genesis died a sudden death in 1994 / 1995 in the US, and because it was much more successful in [parts of] Europe and of course Japan right from the start. Its success in Japan alone probably would be responsible for 2/3 of the 500 games that its library is bigger than that of the Mega Drive / Genesis.

Sega of Japan did produce a good number of excellent games during 1994 and 1995 (practically none of which was released in the West, an exception being Ristar), but the Japanese third party developers already shifted their focus to Saturn and PlayStation, and since 1994 released maybe half a dozen games at best.

[jesus.arnold]

and because it was much more successful in [parts of] Europe and of course Japan right from the start.As a whole there was no contest, if you look at Germany and Scandinavia in those countries the SNES was a lot more popular but that's it, Mega Drive was more popular everywhere else.

In fact now that I've seen the sales figures for the UK I can tell you that the SNES wasn't even a competitor at any time, it only actually sold well for one christmas and then dropped off the radar by the next one, In the UK the 16-bit era was between the Mega Drive and the Amiga 500, the Amiga sold double the amount of the SNES and the Mega Drive sold around triple.

The only country I'm not sure about is France but it seems pretty equal there.

[XeroShinobi]

I have no idea why anyone would say Hagane is better than Shinobi. More weapons does not equal more depth. Hagane's end game is essentially its start game. Additionally, it is nowhere close to as fast paced as Shinobi 3. Anyone who thinks so isn't playing Shinobi 3 correctly. It's like saying Dead or Alive is more complex than Virtua Fighter because one can knock opponents down stairs.

Shinobi 3 has better graphics, music and gameplay. Hagane is a decent game but it pales in comparison to Shinobi 3. The games aren't that similar in actuality, other than the Ninja premise and side scrolling. Hagane doesn't stand out from a typical side-scrolling action game, while Shinobi defined the sub-genre.

[Blaze]

I have no idea why anyone would say Hagane is better than Shinobi. More weapons does not equal more depth. Hagane's end game is essentially its start game. Additionally, it is nowhere close to as fast paced as Shinobi 3. Anyone who thinks so isn't playing Shinobi 3 correctly. It's like saying Dead or Alive is more complex than Virtua Fighter because one can knock opponents down stairs.

Shinobi 3 has better graphics, music and gameplay. Hagane is a decent game but it pales in comparison to Shinobi 3. The games aren't that similar in actuality, other than the Ninja premise and side scrolling. Hagane doesn't stand out from a typical side-scrolling action game, while Shinobi defined the sub-genre.


I salute you gamer, and have played both extensevily. Still in my opinion Hagane comes out supreme. I solemnly stand by that statement and respect yours just as much as the next man/woman's




Ey Joe, wassup my brooooootha :cool:

[XeroShinobi]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. If you prefer Hagane, that's just fine. However, your original statement claiming that Hagane beats Shinobi in every aspect is a tad pretentious. Shinobi 3 requires a considerably more intimate knowledge of frame-by-frame mechanics. The game also has a lot more gameplay variety. Shuriken and non-shuriken runs play very differently.

Here is an old stage 1&2 all-item, Perfect run of Shinobi 3 I made. I think it gets my point across fine, although a well-trained eye can see room for improvement. (I've already improved the first two stages, long ago)

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/2W2aUlxxvmo&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/2W2aUlxxvmo&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[Blaze]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. If you prefer Hagane, that's just fine. However, your original statement claiming that Hagane beats Shinobi in every aspect is a tad pretentious. Shinobi 3 requires a considerably more intimate knowledge of frame-by-frame mechanics. The game also has a lot more gameplay variety. Shuriken and non-shuriken runs play very differently.

Here is an old stage 1&2 all-item, Perfect run of Shinobi 3 I made. I think it gets my point across fine, although a well-trained eye can see room for improvement. (I've already improved the first two stages, long ago)

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/2W2aUlxxvmo&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/2W2aUlxxvmo&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

uh huh, well like i said ive played both extensevily (max difficulty). Me stating Hagane beats Shin 3 in every aspect is juy my personal thought and i solemnly stand by it (its all in the game right playa? and indeed ive got Shin 3 to thank cause was it not for dat game Hagane wuldnt have been that gr8. Pretty much like Symphony Of The Night owes its share to Super Metroid)


(p.s Hagane's music is betta too :cool:)

[jesus.arnold]

Why don't you post yourself playing Hagane on Youtube and then we can look at the two games being played by experts side by side? :D

[Blaze]

Why don't you post yourself playing Hagane on Youtube and then we can look at the two games being played by experts side by side? :D

no camera...but why not, sounds like a good idea :D

I culd also record using an emulator but not at the moment cause this is not my PC (im staying with sum relatives for a while)



thx for the hint, if anyone else is interested...put up videos of ur speedruns for Hagane & Shin III (depending on wich one was ur favorite). Till then, shout out to Sega 16 and all genesis/megadrive fans

[XeroShinobi]

Well, I just played through Hagane again and beat it for the first time. My previous experience with the game was admittedly short.

I accustomed myself to the controls the best I could, then went at it. I beat the game without using the bland Ninjitsu rip-off at all. I found myself using the sword constantly. I only occasionally used the hook to cling to some ceilings. I used bombs on one boss, and I used maybe a total of 15 shuriken. I can say with utmost certainty that the game doesn't offer the same depth as Shinobi III. The mechanics are pretty shallow in comparison. Most of the difficulty comes in the form of back re-spawning enemies and clunky platforming sections. I killed almost everything that came my way to get a feel for every enemy as well. While there was decent variety, none were really all that memorable. Speaking of memorable enemies, not a single boss was well designed. Boss fights all felt very similar. I found the music bland as well, none of the tunes were composed magnificently.

The platforming of the game took some getting used to. I found that the character falls off ledges quite a few pixels before he should, and the controls were a tad clunky. Both the wall jumps and jump kicks are an easier, cheap Shinobi imitation and considerably more limited.

Ultimately, I can't think of any pros it has over Shinobi III other than a larger cast of enemies. However, like stated previously, that is negated by a horrible cast of bosses. Unlike Shinobi III, Hagane is exactly what it appears to be; a generic action platformer. While I by no means did a perfect run, I can't see the game getting any deeper. I already didn't die nor use the special attack and rarely used anything but the sword. While the experience wasn't awful, it definitely wasn't as memorable as Shinobi III, nor does it seem to have the additional challenges Shinobi III has. I tried the new game after the credits, and the only difference appeared to be more enemy HP; meh.

[jesus.arnold]

Where's Damin? he should be fighting in Shadow Dancer's corner :D

[Blaze]

Well, I just played through Hagane again and beat it for the first time. My previous experience with the game was admittedly short.

I accustomed myself to the controls the best I could, then went at it. I beat the game without using the bland Ninjitsu rip-off at all. I found myself using the sword constantly. I only occasionally used the hook to cling to some ceilings. I used bombs on one boss, and I used maybe a total of 15 shuriken. I can say with utmost certainty that the game doesn't offer the same depth as Shinobi III. The mechanics are pretty shallow in comparison. Most of the difficulty comes in the form of back re-spawning enemies and clunky platforming sections. I killed almost everything that came my way to get a feel for every enemy as well. While there was decent variety, none were really all that memorable. Speaking of memorable enemies, not a single boss was well designed. Boss fights all felt very similar. I found the music bland as well, none of the tunes were composed magnificently.

The platforming of the game took some getting used to. I found that the character falls off ledges quite a few pixels before he should, and the controls were a tad clunky. Both the wall jumps and jump kicks are an easier, cheap Shinobi imitation and considerably more limited.

Ultimately, I can't think of any pros it has over Shinobi III other than a larger cast of enemies. However, like stated previously, that is negated by a horrible cast of bosses. Unlike Shinobi III, Hagane is exactly what it appears to be; a generic action platformer. While I by no means did a perfect run, I can't see the game getting any deeper. I already didn't die nor use the special attack and rarely used anything but the sword. While the experience wasn't awful, it definitely wasn't as memorable as Shinobi III, nor does it seem to have the additional challenges Shinobi III has. I tried the new game after the credits, and the only difference appeared to be more enemy HP; meh.


uh huh...


thing is its not a game for everyone and it shows. They were experimenting alot on this project. some loved...some hated (thats the risk they took and im glad they did). The intention was not to build hype..but u see the potential (high production values & creativity). No one saw this game coming, yet alone on the Super Nintendo. They'r were alot more powerfull systems like Saturn & Ps1 on the horrizon...its not like THEy HAD TO MAKE THIS GAME ON SCHEDuEL TO KEEP UP WITH THE COMPETITION. We need more games like these...cause the results r usualy suprising ( i like that )



I found myself beatin Shin 3 with much ease than Hag. It really comes down to the gamer n how u fit in with the overall experience (sh*t we culd go on for ages on this debate). ive also learned to master ALL that Hag had to offer, and it just suited me better than wut Shin 3 had on the table in general. Shin Slayer, bottom line brotha :cool: (those who want war, bring it on cause when im done, it will be my dik ul be swingin on :p)



peace & love, hopefully by the time i get back to my apartment il start recording my playthru for both games

[XeroShinobi]

uh huh...


thing is its not a game for everyone and it shows. They were experimenting alot on this project. some loved...some hated (thats the risk they took and im glad they did). The intention was not to build hype..but u see the potential (high production values & creativity). No one saw this game coming, yet alone on the Super Nintendo. They'r were alot more powerfull systems like Saturn & Ps1 on the horrizon...its not like THEy HAD TO MAKE THIS GAME ON SCHEDuEL TO KEEP UP WITH THE COMPETITION. We need more games like these...cause the results r usualy suprising ( i like that )



I found myself beatin Shin 3 with much ease than Hag. It really comes down to the gamer n how u fit in with the overall experience (sh*t we culd go on for ages on this debate). ive also learned to master ALL that Hag had to offer, and it just suited me better than wut Shin 3 had on the table in general. Shin Slayer, bottom line brotha :cool: (those who want war, bring it on cause when im done, it will be my dik ul be swingin on :p)



peace & love, hopefully by the time i get back to my apartment il start recording my playthru for both games

Simply completing Shinobi III isn't very difficult. Shinobi III offers additional challenge in the form of parameter runs. Certain bonuses are given for playing under certain parameters. No Ninjitsu, no shuriken, no damage, or perfect runs give the player a reason to come back to the game. On the other hand, Hagane can be judged accurately within the first minute of gameplay. My first impressions of the game long before this thread were correct; the game isn't very hard or deep and it doesn't get any better. The most difficult (see: most annoying) part is the first auto-scrolling section because it is certain death the first time around. However, if one has completed it before or even seen it completed before, it isn't very hard. The presentation of the game is lacking overall, and the game mechanics are bland, confirming the adage of quality over quantity.

Hagane also suffers from a "win" button. Simply turning around and hitting L is all it takes to perform a pacifist speed run. Most enemies can be ignored without any additional effort to avoid them because the invincibility period for the back handspring is ridiculously long. Only a select few enemies in the entire game require either a pause or short jump to avoid while performing this move.