Developers with Genesis Allegiances!

[jesus.arnold]

It seems to me that a lot of the companies out there seemed to practice a bit of favouritism during the 16-bit era, with companies like Konami and especially Capcom and Squaresoft always giving priority to the SNES and Nintendo systems in general, so who were rooting in Sega's corner?

Off the top of my head -

Definately Treasure as they never seemed to make any games for other systems and openly trash talked the SNES :D

Virgin Interactive seemed to make their games on Mega Drive first and port later, also Dave Perry who was one of their major coders openly admitted to being a Sega fanboy on many occasions

Namco seemed to bring many of their highest profile games to the Mega Drive as exclusives (which was strange seeing as most of the Japanese devs seemed to be in Nintendo's corner, maybe this was due to Nintendo's censoring policies?) with the Rolling Thunder 2 port (and III being made specifically for the Mega Drive), Splatterhouse series, Marvel Land

EA seemed to put most of their effort into the Mega Drive with all the better versions of sports games as well as producing loads of European ports of Amiga software.

Technosoft - a bunch of high quality exclusives such as Thunder Force IV, Herzog Zwei, Elemental Master

On the Fence

I think Taito were pretty fair with their 16-bit output, it's just a shame they didn't bring some of their RPG's to the Genesis (though I think I heard somewhere that a Genesis version of Lufia was planned at one stage)

[runback22]

EA seemed to put most of their effort into the Mega Drive with all the better versions of sports games as well as producing loads of European ports of Amiga software.

This made EA's betrayal of Sega during the dreamcast years that much harder to stomach. I would say EA wouldnt be the powerhouse they are today had it not been for the Genesis. When you think about 16 bit sports era, where Madden and NBA Live got their console starts, you think of the Genesis. Not the SNES. The Genesis. It was criminal how EA betrayed Sega and the Dreamcast. Not to mention, its fans.

[jesus.arnold]

This made EA's betrayal of Sega during the dreamcast years that much harder to stomach. I would say EA wouldnt be the powerhouse they are today had it not been for the Genesis. When you think about 16 bit sports era, where Madden and NBA Live got their console starts, you think of the Genesis. Not the SNES. The Genesis. It was criminal how EA betrayed Sega and the Dreamcast. Not to mention, its fans.Yeah they really did screw them with the Dreamcast, I think EA had basically just lost all their faith in Sega after the Saturn mess, still didn't change the fact that they were full of sh#t though as EA said if the Dreamcast sold over a certain amount they'd start making games for it, and when the console reached the amount they still didn't bother. I've heard that EA lost millions from not supporting the Dreamcast that 1st christmas, how retarded is that :mad:

[Baloo]

Vic Tokai I know was one of the first Genesis developers from the NES.

Did Toaplan have a Genesis allegiance?

[Da_Shocker]

It seems to me that a lot of the companies out there seemed to practice a bit of favouritism during the 16-bit era, with companies like Konami and especially Capcom and Squaresoft always giving priority to the SNES and Nintendo systems in general, so who were rooting in Sega's corner?

Off the top of my head -

Definately Treasure as they never seemed to make any games for other systems and openly trash talked the SNES :D

Virgin Interactive seemed to make their games on Mega Drive first and port later, also Dave Perry who was one of their major coders openly admitted to being a Sega fanboy on many occasions

Namco seemed to bring many of their highest profile games to the Mega Drive as exclusives (which was strange seeing as most of the Japanese devs seemed to be in Nintendo's corner, maybe this was due to Nintendo's censoring policies?) with the Rolling Thunder 2 port (and III being made specifically for the Mega Drive), Splatterhouse series, Marvel Land

EA seemed to put most of their effort into the Mega Drive with all the better versions of sports games as well as producing loads of European ports of Amiga software.

Technosoft - a bunch of high quality exclusives such as Thunder Force IV, Herzog Zwei, Elemental Master

On the Fence

I think Taito were pretty fair with their 16-bit output, it's just a shame they didn't bring some of their RPG's to the Genesis (though I think I heard somewhere that a Genesis version of Lufia was planned at one stage)


Square was basically a second party they made 1 MD game.

[Cornugon]

This made EA's betrayal of Sega during the dreamcast years that much harder to stomach. I would say EA wouldnt be the powerhouse they are today had it not been for the Genesis. When you think about 16 bit sports era, where Madden and NBA Live got their console starts, you think of the Genesis. Not the SNES. The Genesis. It was criminal how EA betrayed Sega and the Dreamcast. Not to mention, its fans.

Not quite the same but reminds met a little of Psygnosis and Amiga, Psygnosis made the Amiga succesful and most of their stuff really made the best of the hardware, but when they were bought by SONY the platform was dumped alltogether (somewhere in '94, same time EA also abandoned the Amiga by the way) to concentrate more on 'other platforms' :/

OT: How about Novotrade and Tengen?

[Da_Shocker]

Tengen didnt discriminate at all.

[nathanallan]

Disney's Aladdin was great on Genesis and the SNES version left some lacking.

Also, Accolade had Zero Tolerance on the Genesis, not sure what they had on the SNES.

Universal Soldier looks like it would play like Metroid..?

[Iron Lizard]

Square was basically a second party they made 1 MD game.

Which game?

[chessage]

Tengen didnt discriminate at all.

They did do Sega a solid by porting several of their arcade titles to the NES. And one thing is certain, Tengen hated Nintendo's licensing policies.

[jerry coeurl]

I love that Treasure didn't make any games for the Super Nintendo. Yes I am a Sega fanboy and I'm ok with that. I have not found one single SNES game that entertains me even half as much as Gunstar Heroes, the Super Nintendo kids can keep their RPGs as far as I'm concerned.

Just for the record: Square made a Mega Drive game? I have never heard of this and that's a bit hard to swallow. I thought Square was a second party to Nintendo during the SNES/Super Famicom days.

[j_factor]

Telenet / Wolf Team definitely favored Sega over Nintendo, although they also did a lot for PC Engine. Same goes for Falcom. Psygnosis was definitely more Sega-oriented. I don't think Game Arts did anything for SNES.

[Da_Shocker]

Which game?

Bahamut Bahant Senki

then the SFC got Bahamut Lagoon a few years later.

[jesus.arnold]

Vic Tokai I know was one of the first Genesis developers from the NES.They seem to have made a good few SNES games too so I'd say they were neutral


Did Toaplan have a Genesis allegiance?Well, according to Mobygames they made 10 Mega Drive games, a handful of PC Engine game and no SNES games at all so i'd say so :)


Not quite the same but reminds met a little of Psygnosis and Amiga, Psygnosis made the Amiga succesful and most of their stuff really made the best of the hardware, but when they were bought by SONY the platform was dumped alltogether (somewhere in '94, same time EA also abandoned the Amiga by the way) to concentrate more on 'other platforms' :/I don't blame them, the Amiga had no future, the hardware was becoming out of date and Commodore had no plans to release a decent successor. The only people responsible for the end of Amiga, were Commodore.


How about Novotrade and Tengen?Yeah Novotrade made more Mega Drive games, though they didn't really make that many games anyway.

Tengen seem to be well and truly in Sega's corner if their game releases are anything to go by, it looks like they pretty much went from being NES developers to Mega Drive.


Telenet / Wolf Team definitely favored Sega over Nintendo, although they also did a lot for PC Engine. Same goes for Falcom. Psygnosis was definitely more Sega-oriented. I don't think Game Arts did anything for SNES.Wolf Team in particular seemed to be making games primarily for MD, whilst Telenet as a whole seemed split between Mega Drive and PC Engine.

I'm not sure how much Psygnosis was backing Sega as they were definately Amiga orientated for the most part, I think a lot of their releases were due to it being simple to port games from Amiga to Mega Drive (coupled with the strong Sega presence in Europe), I guess the easiest way to tell is to look at how many original Mega Drive games they made

Who actualy were the biggest US video game companies during the 16-bit era? Acclaim seem neutral, Accolade made a few more MD games than SNES, Bluesky seemed to only make games for MD too.

[runback22]

I love that Treasure didn't make any games for the Super Nintendo. Yes I am a Sega fanboy and I'm ok with that. I have not found one single SNES game that entertains me even half as much as Gunstar Heroes, the Super Nintendo kids can keep their RPGs as far as I'm concerned.

^ This......Screw the snes and Nintendo in general. I really hate what Nintendo has done to gaming and I cant stand the Wii. I was looking back on the SNES library and there wasnt 1 game that I felt that I had to play. I cant stand Mario games. The NES version is the only one I truly enjoyed. I truly wish the roles were reversed and Sega was still in the hardware business while Nintendo went software only. The gaming world would be a much better place had that happened...... :Panda:

I find it funny that I can go back after nearly 20 years and spend hours with these genesis games yet the Wii couldnt hold my interest for more than 20 minutes. Genesis still does what Nintendon't.

[Zebbe]

Bahamut Bahant Senki

then the SFC got Bahamut Lagoon a few years later.

I think it's just a rumour Square did Bahamut Senki. There is nothing that credits them for doing it, no logo or copyright or anything on the box or title screen. I don't think the fact that it has a similar name and same genre as Lagoon is enough of evidence.

[Christuserloeser]

Which game?

Bahamut Bahant Senki


Let's stick with that we have for now.

The title screen (and boxart) says Sega developed it:
http://ui14.gamefaqs.com/717/gfs_86071_1_1.jpg

As does Sega itself: http://vc.sega.jp/vc_bahamut/


_

[Baloo]

Tengen definitely was in Sega's corner. They even ported some Sega games to the NES, like After Burner, Shinobi, Alien Syndrome, and Fantasy Zone.

[Zebbe]

I couldn't read any info on that official Sega page, but now I know one thing:

Death Adder is jewish.

http://vc.sega.jp/vc_bahamut/chara7.jpg

[Christuserloeser]

Seems someone confused a David Star with a Pentagram.

[Baloo]

Seems someone confused a David Star with a Pentagram.

Yes, that would be you, because that is indeed the Star of David in that picture. A pentagram is a 5-pointed star, the one in the picture is clearly six.

http://www.flyingchariotministries.com/260px-Star_of_David_svg.png

[Christuserloeser]

My wording wasn't correct I guess: Someone [at Sega] meant to put a Pentagram but ended up using a David Star. Confused a Pentagram with a David Star ?



Klimt
Great Satan

Tribe king of the old demons that exist in most continents. Using the powerful force of darkness, and once succeeded in dominating the continent, the royal hero Sir Ballmer FORIA and was buried. But now, Klimt and蘇RU also the power of the dark continent, began to slaughter the evil ambition of revived from the bottom like a ghost land. One theory holds that the forces of darkness Klimt is sure to be said also to have the same origin.

[Zebbe]

Jokes aside, the hexagram was used by other than jews, perhaps by Satanic people. It was used in Devil Crash, probably as an occultic symbol. But it would indeed fit more with a pentagram in this case.

[tomaitheous]

Jokes aside, the hexagram was used by other than jews, perhaps by Satanic people. It was used in Devil Crash, probably as an occultic symbol. But it would indeed fit more with a pentagram in this case.

I thought it was changed to a 6 pointed star for censorship reason. The Japanese PCE version has a 5 pointed star IIRC.


^ This......Screw the snes and Nintendo in general. I really hate what Nintendo has done to gaming and I cant stand the Wii. I was looking back on the SNES library and there wasnt 1 game that I felt that I had to play. I cant stand Mario games. The NES version is the only one I truly enjoyed. I truly wish the roles were reversed and Sega was still in the hardware business while Nintendo went software only. The gaming world would be a much better place had that happened......

Soooo... you wished Sega had come out with the Wii instead of Nintendo? :p As far as I'm concerned, Nintendo hasn't been successful in the home console market since the SNES (handhelds aside of course). Is that not punishment enough?

What does it require of company to be considered in allegiance with the Genesis? IIRC, Wolfteam made 1 or 2 SFC games. Even Square made Final Fantasy 1 for the MSX. But the trend tends to be for developers that primarily develop for the Genesis/MD, is that they come from a 68k system backgrounds. Be it Amiga/ST from EU (which a lot of US companies were in fact just EU guys) and X68000 from JP (very true for Technosoft and Wolfteam).

[Zebbe]

I thought it was changed to a 6 pointed star for censorship reason. The Japanese PCE version has a 5 pointed star IIRC.

Yes, Dragon's Fury (the western version) has it censored, but not Devil Crash MD (the Japanese version). Which is why I have the JP version, I'm not gonna have some religious morons ruin my games.

[Baloo]

Those stars have always been a point of controversy in many things actually, take Yugioh cards for example. All Japanese cards with the Star of David in the artwork (which was a LOT of Spellcaster cards) were changed to ten-pointed stars when they were brought to America. It seems The five-pointed ones and Star of David people don't really like around it seems, but Japan seems to like them for some reason.

[Zebbe]

The same goes for the swastika which has a completely different meaning in Japan and is not taboo there (although it is usually turned the other way around there, like the third (IIRC) labyrinth of the first Zelda game).

[Baloo]

The same goes for the swastika which has a completely different meaning in Japan and is not taboo there (although it is usually turned the other way around there, like the third (IIRC) labyrinth of the first Zelda game).

Yeah, the Swastika reversed in Buddhism means Peace. The Nazis took it reversed it and turned it into basically the opposite, and it pretty much ruined the Buddhism symbol.

[Cornugon]

I don't blame them, the Amiga had no future, the hardware was becoming out of date and Commodore had no plans to release a decent successor. The only people responsible for the end of Amiga, were Commodore.

Well they were planning a decent successor (the AAA-chipset with fast chunky2planar, VRAM and finally updated sound among other things) but since they were slow in the research department because they spent their money on the wrong things (Commodore PC's, CDTV, CD32, Amiga 600; i.e. the AA-chipset probably came around relatively late and underpowered because of the slowness), they went bust just having finished a working prototype.

[Cornugon]

Yeah, the Swastika reversed in Buddhism means Peace. The Nazis took it reversed it and turned it into basically the opposite, and it pretty much ruined the Buddhism symbol.

It seems a lot of old cultures all over the world used the swastika with probably the same meaning as the buddhists, like india...eerhh native americans. But also Mayans, Hinduists, Romans, etc.

[Zebbe]

Coca-Cola also used it. And they had cocaine in it early on.

[j_factor]

I thought it was changed to a 6 pointed star for censorship reason. The Japanese PCE version has a 5 pointed star IIRC.

The Japanese PCE version of Devil Crash has both pentagrams and 6-sided stars in it:

http://bayimg.com/image/badpkaaca.jpg

That big pentagram was changed to an 8-pointed star in the US TG16 version, but the little red stars remained 6-pointed. In the US Genesis version, the 6-pointed red stars were changed to 5-pointed (but non-pentagram) stars.

[zetastrike]

I love that Treasure didn't make any games for the Super Nintendo. Yes I am a Sega fanboy and I'm ok with that. I have not found one single SNES game that entertains me even half as much as Gunstar Heroes, the Super Nintendo kids can keep their RPGs as far as I'm concerned.
Just for the record: Square made a Mega Drive game? I have never heard of this and that's a bit hard to swallow. I thought Square was a second party to Nintendo during the SNES/Super Famicom days.

I was a SNES kid and I hated RPGs.

[Da_Shocker]

I think it's just a rumour Square did Bahamut Senki. There is nothing that credits them for doing it, no logo or copyright or anything on the box or title screen. I don't think the fact that it has a similar name and same genre as Lagoon is enough of evidence.

It could be possible that developers from Sega that moved to Square did it. I've been doing some research in regard to the ending credit's but nothing has surfaced really.

[tomaitheous]

Which is why I have the JP version, I'm not gonna have some religious morons ruin my games.

Amen to that :D

[Da_Shocker]

Yes, Dragon's Fury (the western version) has it censored, but not Devil Crash MD (the Japanese version). Which is why I have the JP version, I'm not gonna have some religious morons ruin my games.

Actually they don't have anything to do with that. A ton of Japanese games have biblical references in them but they are almost always removed. The Bible would become a random book. I think the FF series had a ton of biblical references in them or some game made by Square. And who can forget Sillouette Mirage. How alot of the characters were biblical names then WD of all companies changed them. Which is ironic because they fought tooth and nail for the names on MKR lol.

[Silanda]

Which is ironic because they fought tooth and nail for the names on MKR lol.

That's debatable. They fought tooth and nail for names but, if my recollections of usenet from back in the day are correct, it may not have been the original names they were fighting for.

[jesus.arnold]

What does it require of company to be considered in allegiance with the Genesis? IIRC, Wolfteam made 1 or 2 SFC games.Yeah, about 2 or 3 SNES games (one of which was a very late port of Arcus Odyssey if mobygames is correct) whilst they made something like 7 games for MD and a further 7 odd for the Mega CD


But the trend tends to be for developers that primarily develop for the Genesis/MD, is that they come from a 68k system backgrounds. Be it Amiga/ST from EU (which a lot of US companies were in fact just EU guys) and X68000 from JP (very true for Technosoft and Wolfteam).Yeah, but wouldn't most developers have come from a 68k background anyway? How many of the companies backing SNES had a "Ricoh 5A22" background?

It's pretty interesting looking at the reasons why some of the companies backed MD.

I'm sure you're probably right that a large part of them simply didn't feel up to learning how to program on a different hardware and wanted to stick with what they knew.

knowing the way that Japanese companies get into feuds and such I'd imagine that some of the people who backed Sega simply hated Nintendo for one reason or another (their business practices were pretty controlling, which can get people's backs up)

Some companies may have had games which were deemed unsuitable by Nintendo, Splatterhouse for instance would never have been allowed release on SNES, also I've heard that during the SNES era they had a problem with "humans shooting other humans in a realistic setting" but I'm not sure to what level that rule was upheld, this may have even affected Rolling Thunder for instance.

For most European companies it was only logical to move to the Amiga and Atari ST during the 16-bit era as home computers were the dominant games machines here, and the Amiga was a good springboard to the Mega Drive, not to mention the fact that the SNES was pretty weak in the UK market anyway and Sega were always very popular here.

[Martin]

I'd also like to know which game Squaresoft made for the Mega Drive.


I love that Treasure didn't make any games for the Super Nintendo. Yes I am a Sega fanboy and I'm ok with that. I have not found one single SNES game that entertains me even half as much as Gunstar Heroes, the Super Nintendo kids can keep their RPGs as far as I'm concerned.

Hey, the SNES was a great console! I can understand kids in the 90s being SEGA or Nintendo fanboys, but still doing it now in 2009 when we're all grown men? That's lame. My Mega Drive holds more nostalgia for me (I didn't have a SNES back in the day), but realistically both consoles were really awesome. The SNES has a whole host of spectacular games, and not just RPGs. And what's your beef with RPGs? Is Chrono Trigger not a killer game? I love my SNES and Mega Drive equally!

[jerry coeurl]

RPGs are boring. I liked them when I was younger but now it's like, if I want to read something I'll just pick up a book. With very few exceptions the stories are just really juvenile. I like it when games feature as little story as possible. "You have to save a princess," or, "the bad guys killed your daddy, get REVENGE son," is all the impetus I need.

I also happen to think that Chrono Trigger is one of the most overrated games of all time. Same for Final Fantasy VI. The only reason I brought up RPGs specifically is that whenever I see a "Genesis VS. SNES" feature on the web, the comment section is littered with stuff like, "Teh GENESIS sux it doesnt have any RPGs! The SNES was king Chono Triiger, Final Fantsay, need I go on!"

I don't actually hate the SNES, I just don't own one and it doesn't really have as many games that appeal to me.

[Baloo]

RPGs are boring. I liked them when I was younger but now it's like, if I want to read something I'll just pick up a book. With very few exceptions the stories are just really juvenile. I like it when games feature as little story as possible. "You have to save a princess," or, "the bad guys killed your daddy, get REVENGE son," is all the impetus I need.

I also happen to think that Chrono Trigger is one of the most overrated games of all time. Same for Final Fantasy VI. The only reason I brought up RPGs specifically is that whenever I see a "Genesis VS. SNES" feature on the web, the comment section is littered with stuff like, "Teh GENESIS sux it doesnt have any RPGs! The SNES was king Chono Triiger, Final Fantsay, need I go on!"

I don't actually hate the SNES, I just don't own one and it doesn't really have as many games that appeal to me.

I agree, Chrono Trigger and FFVII should just drop off the face of the Earth, those games are the root of fanboyism itself. RPGs are vastly overrated books converted into video games. They're not video games, they're just books with interactive screens!

[Cornugon]

I agree, Chrono Trigger and FFVII should just drop off the face of the Earth, those games are the root of fanboyism itself. RPGs are vastly overrated books converted into video games. They're not video games, they're just books with interactive screens!

I always suspected Chronotrigger (and FF7) were overrated, since when people talk here about retro-rpg's those two always come around (and that Ovagina of Time ofcourse). I must admit, I never got to play those so-called eastern-rpg's (with the exception of the first two NES-Zelda games which were great at that time but aged badly), not even those on the Sega. I was more used to the homecomputer-type of RPG's (like Eye of the Beholder and such).

[Megadragon15]

Bah. No one mentioned Game Arts (Lunar, Sipheed, Alisia Dragoon) who was definitely in Sega's corner.

[TmEE]

I recall reading Game Arts on the first page...

[tomaitheous]

I always suspected Chronotrigger (and FF7) were overrated, since when people talk here about retro-rpg's those two always come around (and that Ovagina of Time ofcourse). I must admit, I never got to play those so-called eastern-rpg's (with the exception of the first two NES-Zelda games which were great at that time but aged badly), not even those on the Sega. I was more used to the homecomputer-type of RPG's (like Eye of the Beholder and such).

Heh. I'm re-playing through FF7 right now (the PC port) for the second time since it's release. I think you can only judge if a J-RPG is over rated or not, if you're fan of the genre. Otherwise, you can't really judge against other softs of its genre. I do think Chrono Trigger is bit over rated though. It's a decent game that I've gone through twice, but not the best or even in my top ten RPG list. If you do emulation, I recommend Phantasy Star 2 + easy patch (cause fighting enemies every few steps is no longer tolerable in this day and age).



RPGs are boring. I liked them when I was younger but now it's like, if I want to read something I'll just pick up a book. With very few exceptions the stories are just really juvenile. I like it when games feature as little story as possible. "You have to save a princess," or, "the bad guys killed your daddy, get REVENGE son," is all the impetus I need.

And yet soo many action/non-rpg games have the same type of story line ;) An RPG isn't only about the (main) story. If it was, I'd probably read a book instead. I'm not trying to convince you to play/love RPGs, just pointing out an logic error in your discrimination ;)

[jerry coeurl]

What's the error in my discrimination? With platformers and shmups (my preferred gametypes), all of the storyline is relegated to one or two screens at most, and can be completely ignored. Hell, with some of them the storyline is completely contained within the manual. With very few exceptions, all of my favorite games contain two paragraphs of text at most. I'm not saying that "action" games don't feature the same basic plot outlines as RPGs, just that the plot isn't integrated into the gameplay in they way that it is in an RPG.

[tomaitheous]

I'm not saying that "action" games don't feature the same basic plot outlines as RPGs, just that the plot isn't integrated into the gameplay in they way that it is in an RPG.

Actually, I was being a little bit facetious (but still making a point) ;)

[jesus.arnold]

I've been playing Atomic Runner a lot recently and after checking around I'm adding Data East to this thread under "neutral" as they seemed to make about the same amount of games for both systems (they actually released slightly more on MD in the west but slightly more on SNES in Japan) also at least two of their games (Joe & Mac, and Captain America) were far inferior on SNES.

[KnightWarrior]

Was the reason why EA didn't make games for the DC is the graphic chip set or something

[jesus.arnold]

Was the reason why EA didn't make games for the DC is the graphic chip set or somethingNo, the official word was that EA was angry after being left with loads of stock and some upcoming games in development when Sega suddenly announced the discontinuation of the Saturn, causing them to lose money, after that they said they wouldn't develop for Dreamcast unless it sold over a certain amount units, although after it sold the number they'd given they still didn't make any games, this stubbornness reportedly lost EA a hell of a lot of money when they didn't have any Dreamcast sports games out during a successful christmas.

[Christuserloeser]

And what actually happened is that Bernie Stolar, whom I would consider the best CEO that Sega of America ever had - the only good one anyway, not counting David Rosen; ... that Stolar was pressured to sign a contract that garantueed Electronic Arts the sole exclusive rights to release sports games for Dreamcast.

a) that would have meant no sports games by Sega of Japan [in the West?] - like Virtua Tennis!
b) Stolar had just bought Visual Concepts for $10 million Dollars.


I said, “[Okay], I’ll agree to that, you’ll be the only third-party publisher that will have sports. But you’re going to have to compete with us because I just bought Visual Concepts.” And he said, “No, no, no, no...then you should not do he deal with Visual Concepts.”
I said, “No it’s too late.” [Laughs] “We’ve already signed the documentation. We’ve already taken the steps.” So because of that, he did not go onto the platform.

and because of that he had to leave Sega. The rest is history :(

[Da_Shocker]

That's debatable. They fought tooth and nail for names but, if my recollections of usenet from back in the day are correct, it may not have been the original names they were fighting for.

http://sega-saturn.com/saturn/other/ign_vic.htm

Christuserloeser I don't exactly hate Stolar but there is no way in hell i'd consider him to be the best CEO at Sega since Kalinske was behind Sega's most successful console of all time. With that said EA contract terms seem to be more like a smoke screen for some reason. There were rumors that Sony had paid them not to make games for the DC. Then I also remember EA wanting Sega to go with the Voodoo hardware because they were more familiar with it.


No, the official word was that EA was angry after being left with loads of stock and some upcoming games in development when Sega suddenly announced the discontinuation of the Saturn, causing them to lose money,

EA stopped making games for the Saturn in 97

[j_factor]

No, the official word was that EA was angry after being left with loads of stock and some upcoming games in development when Sega suddenly announced the discontinuation of the Saturn

That didn't happen. When Saturn was dying, we all saw it coming. I doubt any of their '99 sports games were ever in development for Saturn. Their non-sports games that were canceled are games that would have been released during 1997, like Syndicate Wars and Nuclear Strike. They didn't have anything in the pipeline for 1998.


after that they said they wouldn't develop for Dreamcast unless it sold over a certain amount units, although after it sold the number they'd given they still didn't make any games, this stubbornness reportedly lost EA a hell of a lot of money when they didn't have any Dreamcast sports games out during a successful christmas.

They said they'd support the Dreamcast after it sold a million units in North America. I don't know why they said that. I get the impression that they never had any intention of following through on it. I'm not sure if they ever made an official statement acknowledging the DC's sales and saying "we're still not releasing anything for it", but if they did, I never saw it.

I don't think EA lost "a hell of a lot of money" by snubbing the Dreamcast. DC wasn't around that long and was never the dominant system; they could afford to skip it. I'm sure they would've done better by having Dreamcast games out, but not having them wasn't a huge financial pickle for the company. One thing that did happen was that NFL 2K1 and NBA 2K1 outsold their EA counterparts on PS2.


And what actually happened is that Bernie Stolar, whom I would consider the best CEO that Sega of America ever had - the only good one anyway, not counting David Rosen; ... that Stolar was pressured to sign a contract that garantueed Electronic Arts the sole exclusive rights to release sports games for Dreamcast.

a) that would have meant no sports games by Sega of Japan [in the West?] - like Virtua Tennis!
b) Stolar had just bought Visual Concepts for $10 million Dollars.

and because of that he had to leave Sega. The rest is history :(

What remains unexplained is why EA made such a demand, which they've never made before or since. Also, did EA actually expect Sega to agree to it? I think there's got to be more to the story, that EA had some other motive.

[Honey the Cat]

I find it funny that I can go back after nearly 20 years and spend hours with these genesis games yet the Wii couldnt hold my interest for more than 20 minutes. Genesis still does what Nintendon't.

Too bad I'm stuck with emulation. :shame:
I'mma find a Firecore or RetroGen somewhere or that portable Genesis that uses SD cards so I can play all my ROMs on a portable..

[Christuserloeser]

I don't exactly hate Stolar but there is no way in hell i'd consider him to be the best CEO at Sega since Kalinske was behind Sega's most successful console of all time.

I acknowledge Kalinske's achievements, and packing in Sonic with the Genesis was very clever indeed, but I do believe that much of of Sega's success in the US was merely attributed to the circumstances under which Kalinske assumed his position: Genesis was already launched and slowly gained some momentum (they sold 500.000 units during the first few months according to Katz); the games were there - including Sonic, but also Moonwalker, Castle of Illusion, Revenge of Shinobi and Streets of Rage; the Sega vs. Nintendo campaign was there, the SNES was there, unbelievably ugly, and didn't turn out to a better machine - just different; they could afford to lower the price tag for the machine thus making it more attractive to both students and familes... I could go on and on.



What remains unexplained is why EA made such a demand, which they've never made before or since. Also, did EA actually expect Sega to agree to it? I think there's got to be more to the story, that EA had some other motive.

I've been thinking about that too.

Everyone knew that SEGA was in a very bad financial situation and in no position to decline such an "offer" - which is likely the number one reason why they made it in the first place.

You gotta remember that even Microsoft got involved in the Dreamcast project, right from the very beginning:


We believe the Dreamcast system represents a significant advancement in console-based entertainment. For consumers, Dreamcast's state-of-the-art 3D graphics technology and online capabilities will provide unprecedented levels of realism and performance in game play.

So Mircosoft already had a foot in the door, Electronic Arts might have thought that they could get in as well.

Having Electronic Arts on board by securing them with exclusive rights to sell sports games for Dreamcast would also guarantee SEGA that Electronic Arts would do everything they could to support Dreamcast, giving Dreamcast games top priority. So, EA's strategists probably thought it would be entirely feasible to make such an "offer", and that they could not affort not to agree to it.

[jesus.arnold]

That didn't happen. When Saturn was dying, we all saw it coming.whether or not you personally saw it coming makes little difference to the fact that Sega made an announcement they didn't need to be making which needlessly harmed EA's profits.

Where it comes to upcoming releases I don't know, the whole "EA had games in development" idea is one of those heavily proliferated things on the net which i'd never thought to question that could well be bogus, or exaggerated

The idea of the whole clandestine meeting where EA read out a list of demands sounds pretty ridiculous to me, no company just decides to throw away the chance to make money for no good reason. A mixture of the two ideas sounds more realistic, ie EA were pissed at Sega, and Sega had shown that they could be a liability so EA started making demands.


I don't think EA lost "a hell of a lot of money" by snubbing the Dreamcast.Sports titles sold by the truckload on Dreamcast that 1st big christmas and EA didn't have a product out there, I don't see how you can debate on the fact that EA lost out on a "hell of a lot of money" to be honest :?

[kool kitty89]

Too bad I'm stuck with emulation. :shame:
I'mma find a Firecore or RetroGen somewhere or that portable Genesis that uses SD cards so I can play all my ROMs on a portable..

Umm, I'm pretty sure the SD-card add-on cart is for propritary firecore/retrogen games only, it won't work with roms, unfortunatle. (almost positive)
Anyway, you should be able to find a real genesis more cheaply than a firecore... (<$20 shipped online, perhaps less in local ads/craig'slist, a bit more with some games included, but often a better deal as well) Aim for a model 1, even the VA7 (with poor sound) will probably be better overall (plus Sega CD, 32x, SMS-PBC, Virtua Racing compatible) than retrogen unless you care about the propritary games. (sound is a bit poor/muffled, but firecore's is way off... plus VA7s will have pretty good video -and s-video moddable, unlike many model 2s) check out Ace's guide: http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7796

And good luck. ;)


I acknowledge Kalinske's achievements, and packing in Sonic with the Genesis was very clever indeed, but I do believe that much of of Sega's success in the US was merely attributed to the circumstances under which Kalinske assumed his position: Genesis was already launched and slowly gained some momentum (they sold 500.000 units during the first few months according to Katz); the games were there - including Sonic, but also Moonwalker, Castle of Illusion, Revenge of Shinobi and Streets of Rage; the Sega vs. Nintendo campaign was there, the SNES was there, unbelievably ugly, and didn't turn out to a better machine - just different; they could afford to lower the price tag for the machine thus making it more attractive to both students and familes... I could go on and on.

I don't know why having Sonic as a pack-in was such an amazing acheivement, really it should have been pretty obvious and would have been stupid to do otherwise. Really, many successful systems attribute a portion of their success to a killer pack-in game, a "system seller." Many previous to the Genesis, Atari had Combat initially, but later packed-in Space Invaders (particularly with the Sears models), one of the most popular games at the time, likewise there's Donkey Kong on ColecoVision, and especially Super Mario Bros. on the NES! (then SMW with the SNES, which was released prior to StH in Japan)
All those games would follow the same logic as Sonic on the Genesis, and SoJ management would have to be blind not to se that...
Katz may have had reservations on the whole Hedgehog character thing, but he was impressed once he saw the game in action, so I'm sure it would have been a natural chioce to offer bundled with the system.

Plus, with the Genesis on th emarket for a year and the SNES being released, it made sense to drop the price as well. (and $150 is a nice round number) One thing Katz suggested in an interview was that many consumers were holding off on getting a Genesis before they saw waht the SNES had to offer.

I also have one note to the family issue: Nintendo's kid-friendly immage (and indeed nature), would have been a pretty stong factor for families with young children.

[j_factor]

whether or not you personally saw it coming makes little difference to the fact that Sega made an announcement they didn't need to be making which needlessly harmed EA's profits.

Are you talking about the E3 '97 thing? Because they didn't announce the discontinuation of the Saturn then. Stolar just made an idiotic anti-Saturn comment. The discontinuation of the system was announced at the beginning of 1998, at which point it was very obviously dying. EA had been gradually dropping the Saturn from their lineup throughout 1997 -- their only releases for it towards the end of the year were multiplatform sports games, and it was clear they were to be their final Saturn releases.

In any case, it's definitely plausible that there was bad blood between EA and Sega (specifically Stolar) due to the Saturn, but there's no way they were left high and dry with a bunch of games in development. All their Saturn games were ports anyway.


Sports titles sold by the truckload on Dreamcast that 1st big christmas and EA didn't have a product out there, I don't see how you can debate on the fact that EA lost out on a "hell of a lot of money" to be honest :?

Simple, EA's sports titles still sold by the truckload on Playstation, and arguably, EA Sports would've just split the market with Sega Sports, rather than expanding it.

I've seen it rumored that EA had seen NFL 2K and knew that they couldn't create a DC version of Madden 2000 that wouldn't look bad in comparison, but I don't know how true that is. Given the time frame though, I don't think EA would've been able to make their "2000" sports games for Dreamcast from the ground-up; rather, they would've had to to have been ported from the Playstation, with the requisite smoothing, but not able to stand up graphically.

[NeoVamp]

Umm, I'm pretty sure the SD-card add-on cart is for propritary firecore/retrogen games only, it won't work with roms, unfortunatle. (almost positive)

At least one ATgames hand held seems to run roms just fine. (http://sega-16.com/feature_page.php?id=423&title=Sega%20Gear:%20TecToy%20MD%20Play)



also developed by AtGames (says so right in the box)

[Da_Shocker]

So Mircosoft already had a foot in the door, Electronic Arts might have thought that they could get in as well.

Having Electronic Arts on board by securing them with exclusive rights to sell sports games for Dreamcast would also guarantee SEGA that Electronic Arts would do everything they could to support Dreamcast, giving Dreamcast games top priority. So, EA's strategists probably thought it would be entirely feasible to make such an "offer", and that they could not affort not to agree to it.

The WinCE wasn't the only OS for the DC though. That was just an easy excuse to port some PC games to the DC. But that was a developers choice though. And consumer's probably wanted a choice between Football games. And 2K did overtake the Live series. Shame they never came close to dethroning Madden :(

[jesus.arnold]

Are you talking about the E3 '97 thing? Because they didn't announce the discontinuation of the Saturn then. Stolar just made an idiotic anti-Saturn comment.Ah, pardon me this was what I was talking about.


Simple, EA's sports titles still sold by the truckload on Playstation.So? they couldn't have sold games by the truck load on both systems simultaneously?


I've seen it rumored that EA had seen NFL 2K and knew that they couldn't create a DC version of Madden 2000 that wouldn't look bad in comparison, but I don't know how true that is. Given the time frame though, I don't think EA would've been able to make their "2000" sports games for Dreamcast from the ground-up; rather, they would've had to to have been ported from the Playstation, with the requisite smoothing, but not able to stand up graphically.If anything the last 10 years have proved, its that EA doesn't need to make anywhere near the best sports game out there to completely trounce the competition, their inferior sports games have consistantly outsold better games ever since the 32-bit era due to brand name alone, Dreamcast was very successful in the US during that first year odd and there was a big market for Dreamcast sports games there that was completely untapped by EA.

[kool kitty89]

At least one ATgames hand held seems to run roms just fine. (http://sega-16.com/feature_page.php?id=423&title=Sega%20Gear:%20TecToy%20MD%20Play)

Oh, neat, that sounds promising. :) Though it dosn't mean the SD adaptor cart will work as a normal flash cart either. (likely a propritary interface for the Atgames machines)

[j_factor]

So? they couldn't have sold games by the truck load on both systems simultaneously?

Sure, they might have. But you're presenting speculation as fact. You said earlier that they lost a hell of a lot of money. The fact is, they didn't lose money; EA remained very profitable during the period. Passing up an opportunity that would've led to a likely, but unquantifiable additional profit, isn't losing money. Otherwise, by that logic every game company "loses money" when they don't enter every single market and port every single game to every single (viable) platform.

Would Dreamcast editions of Madden, et al have turned a profit? Of course. But that doesn't mean they lost a bunch of money by not having them, no more than Squaresoft "lost money" by not having a Dreamcast version of Final Fantasy IX, or Blizzard "lost money" by not having a Dreamcast version of Starcraft (and you know that would've been better than the N64 version).


If anything the last 10 years have proved, its that EA doesn't need to make anywhere near the best sports game out there to completely trounce the competition, their inferior sports games have consistantly outsold better games ever since the 32-bit era due to brand name alone

Not true - NBA 2K has been outselling Live for quite some time. NFL 2K, while not meeting Madden's sales, was pretty competitive with it until the EA-NFL exclusivity agreement. Additionally, I'm pretty sure WSB/MLB 2K was already outselling EA's MVP Baseball when 2K Games signed an agreement with the MLB preventing EA from releasing more licensed baseball games. EA's NHL game is generally considered to be superior. Maybe FIFA isn't as good as Pro Evo, but that's debatable, but even if it's true, is it the EA brand that sells it or the FIFA brand?


Dreamcast was very successful in the US during that first year odd and there was a big market for Dreamcast sports games there that was completely untapped by EA.

Nonsense. There wasn't a "Dreamcast sports game market" that spontaneously created demand which was then filled by the 2K games. The 2K games themselves generated their own excitement, generated their own demand, and partially drove sales for the system. The market doesn't exist independent of the games.

[kool kitty89]

I think he meant that EA needlessly missed out on money they could have made through supporting the DC... Not that snubbing Sega made EA start taking losses magically.

[King Of Chaos]

What about Steve Snake? He worked on various games including both NBA Jam games and he's always favored the Genesis over any other system.