My Xbox 360 conspiracy theory.......

[runback22]

This post may be a little tongue in cheek....or not....but I've noticed something concerning the RROD.....It seems to happen to a lot of people at the exact same time.....I post on a few forums across the net and always keep an eye out for RROD posts....Every once in a while, you'll get a stray post here and there....Then, all of a sudden, one day there are multiple posts. This lasts for a couple of weeks and goes away, only to come back again a few months later.

I've gone through 5 RROD on 2 consoles. Each time its happened, its been during one of these periods where I see multiple posts on message boards. Now, I know software updates can give you RROD. Immediately following the very first xbox update, I got the RROD. I know of 2 other people who this happened to. I'm talking about turning it on, downloading, and less than a minute later, RROD.

I wonder if MS secretly sends out some type of software update that maybe checks for pirated games, modded systems, or whatever, that somehow damages certain systems like the fall update did. What really got me started thinking about this was a few weeks ago, I noticed a large number of RROD posts. That same week, both of my systems red ringed on the same freaking day. Now these systems are both carefully cared for, dust free, and well ventilated at all times. I dont get it.

To add fuel to my fire, a buddy of mine bought a 360 from a pawn shop, keeps it in a tight space in his entertainment center with little ventilation, plays it constantly, and it has never RR'd. What is the one thing he doesnt do? Its not connected to xbox live.... :daze:

Talk about things that make you go.....Hmmmmmmm...

[mrbigreddog]

Here's my "sega" related tie-in to that post!
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But I completely understand what your talking about! I bought a launch 360. They only had a 6 month warranty (i think, it's been a while) on them then. 6.5 months later RROD! They said I would have to pay $150 to get it fixed. I was like WTF!!! Took it to a local guy that temporarily fixed it for $50. Then 1 week later they changed it to 1 year warranty.

I still have that 360 completely torn apart. Luckily my nephew gave me his old one. He got a new one last christmas. His old one wouldn't play games. Looks like one of his friends was messing with the Parent Control. I took care of that and it's been working fine ever since. And it does follow your theory. He never had this one on xbox live, and i don't either!!! But it does have one weird issue. I have to turn it off and on 2 or 3 times before it will bootup. Sometimes....

[runback22]

I'm ashamed to admit that I owned that game........but hey, back in 93, I was simply in awe that my "game" had video in it.....

[TheEdge]

I don't see any conspiracy here. All I see is consumers continuing to purchase a product that has a long history of malfunctioning.

They are just junk. Sell it.

[Kollision]

Now, I know software updates can give you RROD. Immediately following the very first xbox update, I got the RROD. I know of 2 other people who this happened to. I'm talking about turning it on, downloading, and less than a minute later, RROD.
Well, I never put my precious precious precious Xbox 360 online, and by reading that I probably never will.

Retail games FTW, down with downloadable shit and upgrades.

[FoxHound]

Ok, here are my thoughts..we all know heat is the issue that breaks them. When mine originally broke it happened on a morning when I just loaded a game system could not of been on for more than 3 minutes...did it get so hot that fast it busted..who knows. So it gets repaired and 3 months later I was watching a netflix movie..and the movie freezes. i turn it off and back on and boom RROD. let it cool down and its working fine. I already had my ticket opened with support but i could not get it to RR again. so I left it and kept playing. its been more than 6 months now and nothing. system works great. I do keep a fan on it just in case when I play. So is there a connection with XBL that checks...cant say, but if there is a periodic check maybe it opens a process like on a PC and runs processor so hard on top of playing a game. the heat kills it.

[Speedle]

i repair these consoles as a sort of hobby for friends and family etc, the RROD isnt always the same error being caused, the number of quadrants red will give a general idea of the fault but you need to read the secondary error code to actually find the root casue of the problem. being a very sofisticated piece of hardware 306's often fail and i've had several myself but almost all the consoles i've had to fix have been due to dust build up or because the owner hasnt kept the console in a well ventilated area i.e. in some sort of TV unit with no ventilation.

i doubt MS send out deliberate updates to break machines, at the end of the day they have to fix these faulty boxes and thanks to the 3 year RROD repair scheme they'd be costing themselves money which makes no sense.

there will always be mass postings on the internet of peoples 360's failing and when one person posts it makes others more likely to post these details up where before they wouldnt have bothered.

The main reason 360's fail is heat buildup and the culprit to this is that the solder used is non lead-based solder, this is due to laws prohibiting childrens toys (which the 360 is classed as) having any lead content. therefor the soldering points heat up compnents move and xbox dies. the only way to fix this is to re-heat the solder to allow it to re-ball and re-join the connections.

[Speedle]

To add fuel to my fire, a buddy of mine bought a 360 from a pawn shop, keeps it in a tight space in his entertainment center with little ventilation, plays it constantly, and it has never RR'd. :daze:



he's bloody lucky then but eventually he'll get it garunteed, it'll last longer in that enviroment in the the horizontal postition as when the solder heats up components are less likey to move, it it was vertical and in that enviroment it'd already be dead as the components are more likely to move as the solder heats and cools

[TheEdge]

bottomline they are junk. Get a PC.

[runback22]

I have little interest in playing my 360 anymore.....I'm starting to utilize my ps3 for more than just a blu ray player......

[jollie]

I got the RROD at least 4 times on the same console (3 red lights). All i did was shut the thing off and turn it back on and it worked fine hasnt happened for about a year.

[mrbigreddog]

bottomline they are junk. Get a PC.

I've had worse luck with PC's than I've had with 360's... But the Genesis is still running!!! hehe....

[Elusive]

I wonder if MS secretly sends out some type of software update that maybe checks for pirated games, modded systems, or whatever, that somehow damages certain systems like the fall update did.

Yes, they do this. It's in the Xbox Live terms & conditions; the gist of it is that they 'reserve the right' to detect unauthorised access to the Live network either through hardware (chip) or software (altered firmware), and block access as appropriate. It'd be trivial to compare firmware MD5 values, after all - it's also why they ban consoles from accessing Live, and not the accounts of the people using it. Mod your own property all you want; it's their online service they protect.

My Xbox red-ring'd a couple of times; now I keep the power supply brick on the shelf behind my TV and not on the carpet. No problems at all.

There's no big conspiracy to keep you buying stuff; they wouldn't repair the problem for free if there was. Shit just breaks sometimes.


Well, I never put my precious precious precious Xbox 360 online, and by reading that I probably never will.

Retail games FTW, down with downloadable shit and upgrades.

a) if you're not using burnt 'backups' on your 'homebrewed' Xbox, you've got nothing to wory about, and b) you're missing out on playing with other people via the Internet. It's fun!

[FoxHound]

Yes, they do this. It's in the Xbox Live terms & conditions; the gist of it is that they 'reserve the right' to detect unauthorised access to the Live network either through hardware (chip) or software (altered firmware), and block access as appropriate. It'd be trivial to compare firmware MD5 values, after all - it's also why they ban consoles from accessing Live, and not the accounts of the people using it. Mod your own property all you want; it's their online service they protect.

My Xbox red-ring'd a couple of times; now I keep the power supply brick on the shelf behind my TV and not on the carpet. No problems at all.

There's no big conspiracy to keep you buying stuff; they wouldn't repair the problem for free if there was. Shit just breaks sometimes.



a) if you're not using burnt 'backups' on your 'homebrewed' Xbox, you've got nothing to wory about, and b) you're missing out on playing with other people via the Internet. It's fun!


Ninja Turtles Arcade on XBLA for the WIN

[kool kitty89]

The main reason 360's fail is heat buildup and the culprit to this is that the solder used is non lead-based solder, this is due to laws prohibiting childrens toys (which the 360 is classed as) having any lead content. therefor the soldering points heat up compnents move and xbox dies. the only way to fix this is to re-heat the solder to allow it to re-ball and re-join the connections.

Hmm, my understanding was it had to do with a combination of an undersized GPU heat spreader (used due to the DVD drive being larger than expected) in combination with crappy, riveted X-Clamp brackets that put too much preasure on the board, thus flexing and prying the GPU loose when it overheats and melts the solder. (hence the homebrew screw+washer solution, and also why MS's fix adds the heat pipe to the GPU -and actually removed the CPU's one, apparently being unnecessary)

While the lead-free thing is really silly in this context (what kind of kids are disassembling their electronics and licking them?), I doubt it has much to do with the problem, if anything it should make it more heat resistant (inless they use really crappy lead free solder). Seeing as it's electronic, they should be using silver bearing solder, with usual tin-antimony lead-free solder base (or possibly tin/antimony/copper, possibly with indium to lower the melting point, but that's quite expensive), in which case the melting point should be about the same as leaded electronic solder, if not higher. (you want electronic solder to melt/flow at low temp more easily to avoid damaging components while soldering)

[GriskaGyoran]

The issues wih the 360 I think are nearly completely fixed since the Jasper revision. I have an early Jasper board and it managed to let me get the 5 day survivor achievement on Dead Rising.

[streetsofrage]

its simple , if you don't want the rrod get xcm fans

[Speedle]

Hmm, my understanding was it had to do with a combination of an undersized GPU heat spreader (used due to the DVD drive being larger than expected) in combination with crappy, riveted X-Clamp brackets that put too much preasure on the board, thus flexing and prying the GPU loose when it overheats and melts the solder. (hence the homebrew screw+washer solution, and also why MS's fix adds the heat pipe to the GPU -and actually removed the CPU's one, apparently being unnecessary)

While the lead-free thing is really silly in this context (what kind of kids are disassembling their electronics and licking them?), I doubt it has much to do with the problem, if anything it should make it more heat resistant (inless they use really crappy lead free solder). Seeing as it's electronic, they should be using silver bearing solder, with usual tin-antimony lead-free solder base (or possibly tin/antimony/copper, possibly with indium to lower the melting point, but that's quite expensive), in which case the melting point should be about the same as leaded electronic solder, if not higher. (you want electronic solder to melt/flow at low temp more easily to avoid damaging components while soldering)

aye the heat sinks are very poor quality as well but the heat build up on the underside of the board and the VERY cheap solder used on the original revisions causes most of the problems. this is why the x-clamp fix is so hit and miss on most repairs beacuse people dont realise the problem actually lies elsewhere. 9/10 the problem will be that a circuit pathway for the gpu has broken or the gpu itself has lost connection to a point on the board due to the soldier breaking. the cpu itself has the best heat sink but MS have used a crap heat sink on the GPU to save space and allow room for the CD drive. thats why they fit the extra piping to the later revisons gpu heat sinks

[Speedle]

its simple , if you don't want the rrod get xcm fans

the whisper/xcm fans are money well spent and worth having, they are alot quiter and move a hell of a lot more air! got some in my halo 3 360 :D these bolt on fans you can get from Game and other game stores are worthless and noisey!

[gamevet]

The issues wih the 360 I think are nearly completely fixed since the Jasper revision. I have an early Jasper board and it managed to let me get the 5 day survivor achievement on Dead Rising.


Did they replace the crappy DVD drive?

Mine was failing, right before the power brick failed. I now have someone elses Elite, and it was older than the one I'd sent in.




the whisper/xcm fans are money well spent and worth having, they are alot quiter and move a hell of a lot more air!

I've though about getting a laptop cooling fan. They would probably work okay, and having the airspace underneath the console couldn't hurt. My only concern is that most of the laptop coolers operate using a USB connection.

[streetsofrage]

I've though about getting a laptop cooling fan. They would probably work okay, and having the airspace underneath the console couldn't hurt. My only concern is that most of the laptop coolers operate using a USB connection.

no not a laptop cooler , u need new internal fans goolge xcm fans
http://cgi.ebay.ca/XCM-High-Speed-Air-Cooler-for-Xbox-360-Cool-Fan-NEW_W0QQitemZ250446868948QQcmdZViewItemQQptZVideo_ Games_Accessories?hash=item3a4fcbf1d4&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

[FoxHound]

no not a laptop cooler , u need new internal fans goolge xcm fans
http://cgi.ebay.ca/XCM-High-Speed-Air-Cooler-for-Xbox-360-Cool-Fan-NEW_W0QQitemZ250446868948QQcmdZViewItemQQptZVideo_ Games_Accessories?hash=item3a4fcbf1d4&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

44 dollars!!!

no way , seriously I bought a 10 dollar mini desk fan from the store. I have it right infront of the system blowing threw the vent holes pushing air from front to back. I play 3 hours at a time when i am in heated match for Gears. soon as I shut down everything is nice and cool with very lil heat exiting the back of the system.

[Elusive]

Why not just buy one of these trays?

http://www.traderscity.com/board/userpix15/8935-roasting-baking-cooling-steaming-wire-racks-1.jpg

You can get them for pocket change from somewhere like Wilkinson, and they're absolutely perfect for airflow.

[kool kitty89]

Did they replace the crappy DVD drive?

Mine was failing, right before the power brick failed. I now have someone elses Elite, and it was older than the one I'd sent in.


Do you (or did you for a while) have the console set-up vertically? I've heard the major problem is with the drive not being designed to be operated vertically.

[Speedle]

Why not just buy one of these trays?

http://www.traderscity.com/board/userpix15/8935-roasting-baking-cooling-steaming-wire-racks-1.jpg

You can get them for pocket change from somewhere like Wilkinson, and they're absolutely perfect for airflow.

thats a bloody good idea! alternativly you can get some larger rubber feet for you xbox to raise it up slightly and ensure full airflow but thats a bloody good suggestion elusive!

[Speedle]

44 dollars!!!

no way , seriously I bought a 10 dollar mini desk fan from the store. I have it right infront of the system blowing threw the vent holes pushing air from front to back. I play 3 hours at a time when i am in heated match for Gears. soon as I shut down everything is nice and cool with very lil heat exiting the back of the system.

these are what you want!
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300323976388

they work just as well shift much more air the Original Fan: 29CFM where as these ones shift 46CFM at lower speed too so its quiter too i cant recomned these enough! its all you need!

[runback22]

thats a bloody good idea! alternativly you can get some larger rubber feet for you xbox to raise it up slightly and ensure full airflow but thats a bloody good suggestion elusive!


Hell yeah! I like that idea....That combined with the small fan I have should help alot....Funny, i dont remember having to do this with my "technically inferior" old school consoles.....

We made a change from having to blow into cartridges to having to blow into the system itself.....

[gamevet]

Do you (or did you for a while) have the console set-up vertically? I've heard the major problem is with the drive not being designed to be operated vertically.

I've never placed a console vertical, not even the PS2.


no not a laptop cooler , u need new internal fans goolge xcm fans.

I won't do something like that, until my 3 year warranty expires. The moment you crack open your 360, all bets are off.



Why not just buy one of these trays?

That's a great idea, but I'm certainly not going to place it in this:

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d76/Gamevet/Entertainment003.jpg

The moment I do, my wife is going to have a shit fit and then I'll have to move the 360 back into my office.

[Speedle]

luckily i keep spare warranty seals in case i need to return my 360 back to normal and send it to MS :p hehe

[Elusive]

Perhaps a more extreme idea would be to get one of those 6L mini-fridges and put your machine inside. With a wireless controller & headset and the Games on Demand business, you'd never have to get to the hardware at all!

[FoxHound]

these are what you want!
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300323976388

they work just as well shift much more air the Original Fan: 29CFM where as these ones shift 46CFM at lower speed too so its quiter too i cant recomned these enough! its all you need!

True, but seeing there cost what is the reliablilty, and then you still need to open the case. they look cool, but any thing with LEDS is awesome :p

[Speedle]

they are perfect reliable, more so than the standard fans which have a habit of having crap bearings and then making lots of noise!

indeed you have to open the case but if you know how to do it properly you can remove the seal without damaging it ;) just have seom wax paper ready to put it on :D