32X home brew ideas?

[PimpUigi]

I was wondering if it'd be possible to whip up some arcade perfect MK1????
But with the Genesis music of course (much catchier too, even if the instruments aren't the highest quality ever)

I would pay full old school price for a 32X MK1 home made 32X cartridge with home made MK1 sticker.

Also, would it be possible to get Sonic CD onto 32X, of course without the CD quality sound???
I think that'd be pretty cool as well.

Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo would also be really nice to have, maybe on 32X CD if there's space issues...and then you could actually use CD quality recordings of the CPS1 tracks from the Anniversary Edition...

Would any of these things be possible?
Also, more ideas would be cool to read.

[17daysolderthannes]

Super Street Fighter II Turbo was on CPS2. If it was going to be 32X/CD, might as well have a full CD-quality remix to go with it instead of wasting your time doing a conversion that will undoubtedly be inferior to MAME.

[PimpUigi]

I know, but that was very low quality.
CPS1 was high quality Street Fighter music, and AE actually had the option to put all the music, even the New Challenger stages in CPS1

This also made all their music sound much better.
Bass especially, but all the high notes too.
CPS1 is just much higher quality.

And like, it's a total shame HD Remix only has CPS2, or the weird remixes available.
Well, some of the remixes were all right...but Claw's stage is no longer "It's time for a cage match!" music, it's become "Let's a nice quiet Tea Party" music.

[kool kitty89]

SOnic CD probably wouldn't be a whole lot better on the 32x than it could have been on Genesis. The big factors being that the 32x CPUs could probably be used to decompress data in real time, allowing more to fit in the limited cart space. Still, not practical for large amounts of compressed streaming audio, or significant amouts of FMV, but the large levers should be fine, and you could do a revamped special stage with better scaling. (though other CD games show that much better scaling/rotation could be done on the Sega CD alone than shown in Sonic CD)

I think a lot of Sonic CD music could have been done reasonably well on the native hardware (except for the vocals), and all the past music was synth, not CD. The thing is, the CD has that nice 8-channel PCM chip, while the 32x only adds the 10-bit stereo PWM, controlled by software. (so it could take a bit of work to get comperable quality)

A 32x-CD enhanced version of Sonic CD would have been more promising IMO, higher quality FMV sequences, enhanced special stages, maybe some added effects/extras elsewhere as well.


On another note, Knuckles Chaotix probably could have been done at least as well on the Sega CD, with the exception of lower colors in some areas, and lacking the polygonal special stages. (scaling should have been fine)

Likewise I think it's a shame that the CD never got ports of classics like Space Harrier and AfterBurner, like the 32x did. (an arcade compilation disc like the saturn got could have been nice) Then again, perhaps the limited RAM in the Sega CD was the issue.

[PimpUigi]

Yea, you're right.
In fact, it's just damn hard to look over 32X CD for plain old 32X cart...

Except in the cases when you don't need that nice sound, extra processor, and CD space...

[Chilly Willy]

What you're asking for isn't really "homebrew". Homebrew would be like asking for a breakout game, or porting a simple game that has the source available. Asking for a complete conversion of a closed-source, commercial games that are better than existing commercial games doesn't quite fit the category. ;)

[PimpUigi]

Shows what I know about home br3w.
lol ;)

[Tears of Ash]

breakout game

I was going to post this.

Also, Frozen Bubble perhaps?

[Deo]

A 32X port of Outrun would be pretty cool seeing as Space Harrier and Afterburner were near perfect on the 32X.

[Dirt Ball Gamer]

A sort of road rash megamix would be interesting. I can never get enough road rash.

[ThugsRook]

Sonic the Hedgehog was ported to 32x...

[Chilly Willy]

Sonic the Hedgehog was ported to 32x...

Not really - it's still 99.9999% the original game. It just has the potential to START using the 32X for stuff.

[kool kitty89]

On the topic of 32x homebrew ports, I know Quake was mentioned before as probably a bit ambitious, with Duke Nukem 3D being a more realitic choice, but would Tomb Raider be in a similar category as Quake in that respect? Or is Tomb Raider's sourse code not even available?

[TmEE]

ROTT or Duke3D would be total jawusumness, Duke might be stretching things, since it never ran good on my 486 PCs...

[PimpUigi]

Sonic was ported to the 32X???
Where can I get that version??

[TmEE]

http://info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_the_Hedgehog_32X

there


Will not work on real HW, some bug in PWM handling causes a hang.

[Chilly Willy]

On the topic of 32x homebrew ports, I know Quake was mentioned before as probably a bit ambitious, with Duke Nukem 3D being a more realitic choice, but would Tomb Raider be in a similar category as Quake in that respect? Or is Tomb Raider's sourse code not even available?

Tomb Raider doesn't have source. There was an attempt to make a version without source called "OpenRaider", but it never went anywhere. The main issue with any of these games isn't the CPU, it's the memory.

Really, if we want the best FPS on the 32X possible, it's going to have to be written from scratch specifically for the 32X.

[doomguy]

although an arcade perfect port of mk1 would be awsome on a whole new level i think creating games not porting them would be more interesting and more worth spending time on

[kool kitty89]

Tomb Raider doesn't have source. There was an attempt to make a version without source called "OpenRaider", but it never went anywhere. The main issue with any of these games isn't the CPU, it's the memory.

Really, if we want the best FPS on the 32X possible, it's going to have to be written from scratch specifically for the 32X.

Ah, yeah, lack of RAM. (and decompressing ROM on the fly can only get you so far -and takes up CPU resourse)

[Da_Shocker]

MK1 is horribly dated i'd rather see MK2 or MK3 really.

[PimpUigi]

MK1 isn't horribly dated...who told you that?

MK2 has a 32X port (best home port too,) and Trilogy for PC or PSX or Saturn is way better than MK3 or UMK3

MK1 was the best MK to a lot of MK fans, inkluding myself. (though of course MK2 is widely considered the best, and some version of MK3 by MK tournament players.)
IMHO MK1 was by far the most realistic, sounded the most hardcore, and the home versions seemed like sloppy 8 bit ports in comparison to the actual arcade games.

...SNES port included in the sloppy 8 bit ports too, that thing looks and plays like crap compared to the real arcade version.
At least the Genesis played like the arcade version...

[Da_Shocker]

I can't play MK1 and be entertained that much at all. Even SF2 is more fun IMO. But anyways the 32X port was a terrible port IMO. Probe fcked up every single port of MK2. The 32X version looks like the SNES version and sounds worse. The Saturn version was programed very sloppily compared to UMK3.

[PimpUigi]

The differences between MK1 and 2 are like, more characters, less realistic fatalities, dumbed down sounds, and the addition of friendships and babalities.
Street Fighter is more fun than both of them.

32X port looks like the SNES version, has close to all the sounds (certain stage sounds were missing,) and all the combos from the arcade version work in the 32X version, unlike in the SNES version.
Saturn version is missing tons of sounds, and I don't know what combos work and don't work, but loading is enough to kill it.

32X version is the best home port of MK2
Correct combos >>> correct sounds. (and off the bat, I only think the tree moaning, and one stages lightning sound effect is missing)

[doomguy]

i have every port of mk2 apart from the amiga and i would say its the best in the series and the 32x version is the best port it looks better than the snes (still could have done better though) controls great the sound effects are good only bad part is the megadrive music

[Da_Shocker]

I'm sorry it doesn't look better than the SNES at all. All Probe did was take the Genesis version and add a few more colors and few more sounds. And I never had any issues as far as combo's are concerned. I never believe half the crap the media would about SNES versions being superior to the Genesis counterpart but Probe always fit the shoe and made crappy Genesis and 32X ports.

[tomaitheous]

the 32x version is the best port it looks better than the snes (still could have done better though)

The 32x backgrounds are the original low color Genesis backgrounds. Only thing they redid is the sprites on the 32X layer (and few static out of game screens). I haven't done a extensive comparison, but the SNES version still looks better than the 32x version color/background wise. Someone should do an extensive visual comparison between the ports.

[Bramsworth]

I'm looking forward to Chilly Willy's proposed Rayman port for 32x(CD?). Can't wait to see if it becomes a reality someday :)

[Chilly Willy]

I'm looking forward to Chilly Willy's proposed Rayman port for 32x(CD?). Can't wait to see if it becomes a reality someday :)

It's on the list. I've been collecting sprite and backgorund rips. It's really a great game to show off the improved graphics the 32X has. Just look at how vibrant and colorful the Saturn and PSX versions are, and the 32X can do the same graphics... with a little more CPU effort. Rayman is a fairly slow game, though, so I don't see a problem. It's hardly Sonic. ;)

[TmEE]

I can only visualize Rayman on 32X being half rate game........

[PimpUigi]

I think I could get sprite and sound rips for MK1...hmm

[NeoVamp]

I think I could get sprite and sound rips for MK1...hmm

Everybody can get those, MK1 sound zips are easily found and MK Warehouse has pretty much all the sprites.

but you'd still need an engine.


Personally i would love to see an MK engine done for 32x, then maybe we could make MK Vs SF
with sprites from SF The Movie.

also MK2 for 32X is horrible, they didn't even bother to put the ending pics in,
you just get the standard bio pic but they swapped the bio story for the ending story.

also they did not even bother to put back the numerous cut sprites,
Shao Kahn's win pose still lacks the last frame and so does Johnny Cage.

i'm surprised they reinstated Baraka's win pose.

neh, horrible lazy port that only looks good because you get smacked in the face with the awesome intro/bio's when the game starts,
but after that it becomes very clear that they did not bother at all.
(i bet it was a one man job)

[Ace]

I'd personally love to see 32X versions of the following Sega Super Scaler arcade games:

-Super Monaco GP
-OutRun
-Thunder Blade
-G-LOC Air Battle
-Galaxy Force II
-Super Hang-On

[Chilly Willy]

I can only visualize Rayman on 32X being half rate game........

Why? The 32X has got the graphics, sound, and can play CD tracks if you have the CD. The 32X CPUs are plenty powerful enough for Rayman... it's a plain platformer with thousands mode graphics instead of the normal paletted graphics. There's no 3D, no difficult 2D effects, no hordes of sprites all appearing at the same time. It seems like it would have been the ideal platformer to show off the 32X. Instead, we got a half-ass version of a Sonic game without Sonic. :mad:

[TmEE]

I still cannot imagine those 2x SH2s managing all software rendering at full speed.... maybe its perhaps I've not seen a full speed 32X game where 32X is doing more than just static screens or some sprites.

[Chilly Willy]

I still cannot imagine those 2x SH2s managing all software rendering at full speed.... maybe its perhaps I've not seen a full speed 32X game where 32X is doing more than just static screens or some sprites.

You mean like Wolf32X? ;)

Seriously, I haven't even optimized Wolf32X and it runs friggin 3D full speed most of the time. 2D games are a snap for the 32X!

Well, they are if you're just not trying to throw something together to make a quick buck off shovelware.

[kool kitty89]

Why? The 32X has got the graphics, sound, and can play CD tracks if you have the CD.

Of course the Jaguar original didn't use CD audio at all, though you might not have enough resource available to approximate the synth in software on the 32x. (of course you could do an arranged version of the music using the Genesis sound hardware along with some PWM software synth -not necessarily using an SH2 for that) Of course with the Sega CD you've got the added PCM chip, but then you can also have CD audio. (kind of a paradox if the CD drive isn't preoccupied during gameplay, or if you have a cart based game with the Sega CD as well...)

[jamesdude]

Apparently, Street Fighter The Movie almost got a 32X release. That would be an idea to think about for a Homebrew 32X game.

http://cache.kotaku.com/assets/images/kotaku/2008/06/vandamme.jpg

[Da_Shocker]

I think we want good games not bad ones.

[PimpUigi]

lol I agree
Just make a straight up MK1 hopefully.

Could actually make it better than the arcade version if you include the Dullard code, and blood code from the Genesis version...and throw in the SNES fatalities in the censored mode.

[Da_Shocker]

I still fill that System 32 should be what we are after. A 4 player Revenge of Death Adder woulf be great and Arabian Fight would be another great lookin technical game.

[xXxTWO FACExXx]

lol I agree
Just make a straight up MK1 hopefully.

Could actually make it better than the arcade version if you include the Dullard code, and blood code from the Genesis version...and throw in the SNES fatalities in the censored mode.

I second this motion!

[PimpUigi]

Could throw in the sweat too. lol

Oh, I just realized the best arcade to 32X port...

4 player Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles The Arcade Game.
I can dream...

[ThugsRook]

Descent for 32X :cool:


it was cancelled back in the day :(

[Kronus_Arm]

I want to see Gunstar Heroes or eve Contra: Hard Corps for 32X

:D

[Da_Shocker]

Could throw in the sweat too. lol

Oh, I just realized the best arcade to 32X port...

4 player Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles The Arcade Game.
I can dream...

That sounds like it could happen and 16-24 megs would make it arcade perfect.

[The Sports Guy]

I wanted to make a Tecmo Super Bowl 32X, but wouldnt know where to start.

[tomaitheous]

WHY are you people listing ports!?!?!?!? My god, do you know how much work goes into creating a game from scratch? Why waste it on such efforts as ports? I want something new and original. Not a 'hack' or a port. People listing MK this and TMNT that, go play MAME. There's your arcade perfect port just waiting for you.

Something original would be nice. You know, homebrew. Doesn't have to be ginormous and doesn't have to be complex. A simple innovated/fun puzzle game. A short RPG. A short shooter. etc.

[TmEE]

I'm with Tomaitheous on this one

and its my 4567th post

[mugenmidget]

How about a brand new TMNT game? ;)

But I think I would like to try developing a four player beat 'em up regardless of brand on the 32X. Maybe a heavily modified port of Beats of Rage? There's a version of OpenBoR for Wii that supports four players, I believe. Not really sure if that is feasible.

I would also LOVE to make a Street Fighter that made usage of TmEE's awesome musical talents, but trying to design and balance a game like that would be hell. Definitely dig the idea of a simple puzzle game, tomaitheous, I'm sure that would still give me a huge headache once I started getting my feet wet.

Anyways, it's good to hear there are many people who are passionate about the subject. I look forward to educating myself about 32X homebrew and collaborating with you folks in the future.

P.S. are there any other resources besides these I could look at? I'm a CS major so I have a little bit of a background but have just started Computer Architecture. I still have much to learn.

http://devster.monkeeh.com/segapage.html
http://www.eidolons-inn.net/tiki-list_file_gallery.php?galleryId=10
http://gendev.spritesmind.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=4&sid=381d25282edad0b008973c1630676c97
http://forums.ps2dev.org/viewtopic.php?t=11630

[TmEE]

I guess that the J.F. in the ps2dev.org forum is our Chilly Willy ?

you need some MD knowledge too if you wanna make something good with the 32X :)

[mugenmidget]

Haha yes, it would seem so (at least I hope it's him).

I can see just from some light searching that there appears to be a lot of tools and documentation for Mega Drive development. I'll have to see see if I can even manage to make a demo that will run on the Neo Myth MD.

[Beastech]

How about a horizontal/vertical shooter? I would dig that personally.

[TmEE]

I am slowly working on a run n' gun for MD.... which might use 32X when present......


I can see just from some light searching that there appears to be a lot of tools and documentation for Mega Drive development. I'll have to see see if I can even manage to make a demo that will run on the Neo Myth MD.

I'm a bottomless pit of MD info and I don't keep things to myself, except some means on how to differentiate real HW and emulators :P
My email and other means of contact are all freely available :)

[kool kitty89]

WHY are you people listing ports!?!?!?!? My god, do you know how much work goes into creating a game from scratch? Why waste it on such efforts as ports? I want something new and original. Not a 'hack' or a port. People listing MK this and TMNT that, go play MAME. There's your arcade perfect port just waiting for you.

Something original would be nice. You know, homebrew. Doesn't have to be ginormous and doesn't have to be complex. A simple innovated/fun puzzle game. A short RPG. A short shooter. etc.

Hey, what about what Chilly Willy's doing, Wolf32x palanning on following with a proper Doom port. Of course these are different cases than games that would have to be done from scratch, as the sourse code is widely available and many sourse ports to go along with that.

I agree in general about it being a wast to rewrite a game from scratch just to make a port, but more paractical ports like this are cool, and useful for other possibilities. (if a nice port of Doom gets completed that could be built on for something like Sonic Robo Blast perhaps, with the actual Robo Blast not being practical for the 32x)

In another discussion, a Sonic themed cart racing game was another thought, more along the "from scratch" category.

[mugenmidget]

Thanks a lot, TmEE, I appreciate it and will definitely keep in touch!

[Chilly Willy]

I agree that just listing games you'd like to see is rather futile. There either needs to be source or enough of a following that the game has been dissected enough that you have a good chance of recreating it (like Sonic). It's a bit odd, but I've been involved in ports of Doom on a LOT of platforms... and am STILL working on even more. I have considered SRB... it's an interesting idea for making a 3D Sonic. It's perhaps the best bet for 3D Sonic on the 32X, so I will be thinking about it as I work on Doom 32X.

I do encourage people to try doing something from scratch if they have the will and an idea. It's why I put out my development code for the 32X, with Wolf32X giving examples of how to handle the hardware in an actual game. I'd love to see a homebrew SHMUP on the 32X, or even Tic-Tac-Toe. Don't think that such a thing is too basic - there's basically NOTHING right now, so ANYTHING will be welcome. Do a breakout clone with fancy background images... that's usually easy, and the 32X gives the graphics needed. I'd love to see enough homebrew that people would quit recommending people not get a 32X because there's nothing for it. We want people to jump at the chance to get one. :D

[xXxTWO FACExXx]

Now I really want to learn programming.

[Ace]

I want something new and original. Not a 'hack' or a port.

Does porting a fangame you made count?

[tomaitheous]

I agree that just listing games you'd like to see is rather futile. There either needs to be source or enough of a following that the game has been dissected enough that you have a good chance of recreating it (like Sonic). It's a bit odd, but I've been involved in ports of Doom on a LOT of platforms... and am STILL working on even more. I have considered SRB... it's an interesting idea for making a 3D Sonic. It's perhaps the best bet for 3D Sonic on the 32X, so I will be thinking about it as I work on Doom 32X.

I do encourage people to try doing something from scratch if they have the will and an idea. It's why I put out my development code for the 32X, with Wolf32X giving examples of how to handle the hardware in an actual game. I'd love to see a homebrew SHMUP on the 32X, or even Tic-Tac-Toe. Don't think that such a thing is too basic - there's basically NOTHING right now, so ANYTHING will be welcome. Do a breakout clone with fancy background images... that's usually easy, and the 32X gives the graphics needed. I'd love to see enough homebrew that people would quit recommending people not get a 32X because there's nothing for it. We want people to jump at the chance to get one. :D


Having done some MD stuff, I'll try my hand at 32x sometime. It would be cool to somehow generate some interest for homebrew 32x. Maybe a small prize-less contest? Dunno. There's just something alluring about doing stuff for the 32x. Wish more people would take a poke at it.


Does porting a fangame you made count?

Yes, that counts :D Are you really going to port "that" game? Hehehe

[Ace]

If I knew how to program for the 32X, I most certainly would port my fangames there. Honestly, though, I'd try to port them wherever possible.

[tomaitheous]

If I knew how to program for the 32X, I most certainly would port my fangames there. Honestly, though, I'd try to port them wherever possible.

Maybe Chilly Willy can setup a loader for you in that you have to worry about learning, is the 32x side. I think someone over at spritesmind was doing 32x projects in C. Chilly Willy was for his Wolf 3D project. So, might not be such a steep learning curve (i.e. don't have to worry about SH2 assembly and such).

[jamesdude]

How about "Space Harrier in Afterburner"
The jet is replaced by Space Harrier, this could work seeing they share the same engine and they were both ported to the 32x.

[Chilly Willy]

My skeleton code for the 32X handles most things. It sets up the machine and calls main(). It provides a way to get the current joypads and a vertical blank timer. From the Wolf32X code you can see how to set up a screen, draw, flip buffers, read/write the SRAM, and do sound. It's all plain C code, so the entry level is fairly low.

[kool kitty89]

Ace, are you talking about this Gradius fangame? http://sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8489 Are there any others that you're working on?

[xXxTWO FACExXx]

Why doesn't someone just make a 32x game creator something very simple to use this is just an idea.

[Dirt Ball Gamer]

How about "Space Harrier in Afterburner"
The jet is replaced by Space Harrier, this could work seeing they share the same engine and they were both ported to the 32x.

I like the way you think. Maybe we could also do the jet in the Fantasy zone! Genius no?:) This thread is getting hilarious. I want a port of Custer's Revenge.

[Chilly Willy]

Why doesn't someone just make a 32x game creator something very simple to use this is just an idea.

Because it's a huge pain in the butt to do... for any platform, not just the 32X. Look at how many "game creators" there are for the PC... and that's with commercial support.

[Ace]

Ace, are you talking about this Gradius fangame? http://sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8489 Are there any others that you're working on?

I made one previous to Gradius: The Dark Armada, named Unofficial Salamander 3, which is the prequel to Gradius: The Dark Armada. If I knew how to code for multiple game consoles, I'd port BOTH games to those consoles. Primary focus if I learn how to code: a 32X or CD 32X version of those 2 games.

Oh, and I STILL need some posts filled for artists/voice actors. Kool Kitty, wanna be part of the Gradius: The Dark Armada development team?


Maybe Chilly Willy can setup a loader for you in that you have to worry about learning, is the 32x side. I think someone over at spritesmind was doing 32x projects in C. Chilly Willy was for his Wolf 3D project. So, might not be such a steep learning curve (i.e. don't have to worry about SH2 assembly and such).

I didn't code my fangames in C. They were made using Game Maker 7 by YoYo Games, which is a program for Windows made specifically to easily make your own games.

[matteus]

I'm waiting for Chilly Willy to complete his work relating to Wolf 3d / Doom.

Maybe then you could all focus on skinning it up and making some custom wads, etc that are graphically more impressive than the ones within Doom itself?

I dunno....

[Chilly Willy]

I'm waiting for Chilly Willy to complete his work relating to Wolf 3d / Doom.

Yeah, me too! :D


Maybe then you could all focus on skinning it up and making some custom wads, etc that are graphically more impressive than the ones within Doom itself?

I dunno....

Because of the memory issue, it'll take more than simply throwing some files on a CD... you'll need to preprocess the files. When I have it out, it'll come with the apps to do that. It's also quite possible that some custom wads would be too big. If that's the case, the preprocessor will inform you.

My thoughts on the matter right now is to have the preprocessor generate a level at a time, so you give it the files and any level in the files and it will generate the data needed for the CD 32X for a particular level. So if you ran into levels that were too complex, you could skip them.

[matteus]

Yeah, me too! :D.

Well that makes 2 of us... oh wait can you include yourself? :)




Because of the memory issue, it'll take more than simply throwing some files on a CD... you'll need to preprocess the files. When I have it out, it'll come with the apps to do that. It's also quite possible that some custom wads would be too big. If that's the case, the preprocessor will inform you.


Will it run in High Detail? or will this be strictly a Low Detail affair?

[xXxTWO FACExXx]

Can we get a status on your work with wolf32x.

[matteus]

Can we get a status on your work with wolf32x.

"It'll be done, when its done" would sum it up I think :D

[Chilly Willy]

Well that makes 2 of us... oh wait can you include yourself? :)

Of course I can! More than once!! :D



Will it run in High Detail? or will this be strictly a Low Detail affair?

It will be like all my Doom ports - you'll have a setting that tells the game which detail mode to start in, with a button combo to change the def on the fly. The default starting mode will be high def.


Can we get a status on your work with wolf32x.

I'm in the middle of a rewrite to improve the resource handling. I'm also still working on the CD code for doing a CD version. The next release will have compressed sounds that are better than the current sounds. I'm looking at how compression affects the graphics as well. Some of this work is geared with a view towards being used in Doom 32X - it's not really needed for Wolf3D, but it serves as a test bed.

[matteus]

I'm in the middle of a rewrite to improve the resource handling. I'm also still working on the CD code for doing a CD version.

Are you having to make any quality sacrifices in the CD version? As in lower quality textures / sound ?

[Chilly Willy]

Are you having to make any quality sacrifices in the CD version? As in lower quality textures / sound ?

Not sure yet. Haven't got that far on the CD version.

[Chaotix]

I'm looking forward to Chilly Willy's proposed Rayman port for 32x(CD?). Can't wait to see if it becomes a reality someday :)

Sorry to bring up an older post but...
Oh gawd. I'd pay for that game.
I dunno why, but Rayman on a Genesis CD32x gives me goosebumps. Hahah.

Hey, maybe there could be some bonus levels thrown in too if there is extra space. =D

By the way, Chilly Willy, how would you plan on making it? I didn't think they released the source code...
By scratch it would be a serious pain in the arse, no?

[Chilly Willy]

Sorry to bring up an older post but...
Oh gawd. I'd pay for that game.
I dunno why, but Rayman on a Genesis CD32x gives me goosebumps. Hahah.

Hey, maybe there could be some bonus levels thrown in too if there is extra space. =D

By the way, Chilly Willy, how would you plan on making it? I didn't think they released the source code...
By scratch it would be a serious pain in the arse, no?

Well, I've been getting sprite and tile rips from elsewhere, and it's a pretty straightforward platform game. But yes, it's much more work compared to if they'd released source for it.

[xXxTWO FACExXx]

I have an idea Linerider on 32x!

[KnightWarrior]

How about bejeweled..or what ever it called a simple puzzle game for the 32X..heck the Genesis could pull it off

[Baloo]

How about bejeweled..or what ever it called a simple puzzle game for the 32X..heck the Genesis could pull it off

Columns...for the 32x!

[Chilly Willy]

People should suggest only projects with source. Anything else would be too much work unless the dev is already considering it themselves, in which case your suggestion is worthless either way.

[chessage]

People should suggest only projects with source. Anything else would be too much work unless the dev is already considering it themselves, in which case your suggestion is worthless either way.

How about N-Warp Daisakusen (http://gra.dforce3000.de/) for the MD/G or 32X?

[Flygon]

Port Sonic the Hedgehog 2 to 32x.

*runs*

[Chilly Willy]

How about N-Warp Daisakusen (http://gra.dforce3000.de/) for the MD/G or 32X?

It's all assembly language, and the processor in the SNES is not one of the ones in the MD/32X. So while it's possible, it's still a LOT of work since you'd have to convert from assembly language.


Port Sonic the Hedgehog 2 to 32x.

You can get commented disassembly of Sonic 1 through 3 over at sonic Retro, and someone there "ported" Sonic 1 to the 32X. The problem is that Sonic is 68000 assembly, and the Sonic 1 "ported" to the 32X is still running 68000 code on the MD, it simply also turns on the 32X. So it's not really ported, but the 32X is on so it COULD be used for SOMETHING if you wished to upgrade the game. That would be similar for Sonic 2 or 3 on the 32X.

Better would be to start with something already in C and to compile it for the 32X, like Open Sonic.

[Baloo]

But yeah, I want to see Rayman for the 32x.

Has a prototype been released yet?

[Chilly Willy]

But yeah, I want to see Rayman for the 32x.

Has a prototype been released yet?

Nope. I won't be working on that until after Doom is done. It's on the list right after that. :cool:

There's one thing I should mention that may help 32X homebrew a lot - the Neo Myth flash cart has at least 5 MB of RAM in it. When you select a rom from the menu, it's copied into RAM and played from that, not the flash directly. Looking at the source for the menu (which was released on the Neo forum), it should be relatively easy to use the RAM from homebrew... which has always been the main shortcoming of the SEGA MD/CD/32X - lack of RAM.

[TmEE]

And when you use that RAM, you'll pretty much break compatibility with all stuff, and people without the Neo cannot use your stuff....

Like a hot hot chick waiting for you to get to her, but you cannot because there's someone else waiting for you, hehehee

[Chilly Willy]

And when you use that RAM, you'll pretty much break compatibility with all stuff, and people without the Neo cannot use your stuff....

Like a hot hot chick waiting for you to get to her, but you cannot because there's someone else waiting for you, hehehee

Very true - so I'll only use it on stuff that couldn't otherwise run on the 32X.

[matteus]

Very true - so I'll only use it on stuff that couldn't otherwise run on the 32X.

You big cheat :) Have you got a deal going with the producers of Neo Myth? ;)

[Chilly Willy]

You big cheat :) Have you got a deal going with the producers of Neo Myth? ;)

No, they're just nicer about making things open than other folks. Dr Neo already made the menu program in the cart open source under an MIT license, and that has most all the info you need to figure out how to write enable the ram, bank select it (if needed), etc.

I think more people would get one of these if a bundle deal could get made by folks here as the price break on 10 of these things is big.

An example of something that is possible with the Neo Myth that isn't without it would be Quake. QuakeDS was modified to run in 4 MB of RAM (what a DS has stock). There's simply no way possible to squeeze Quake into the 512 KB or 256 KB of RAM you have on the SEGA CD 32X.

[matteus]

haha you port Quake and I'll buy one....... damn that sale was too easy!

[Da_Shocker]

I'd love to see a 4 player beat em up on the 32X that supported scaling like Arabian Fight.

[kool kitty89]

No, they're just nicer about making things open than other folks. Dr Neo already made the menu program in the cart open source under an MIT license, and that has most all the info you need to figure out how to write enable the ram, bank select it (if needed), etc.

I think more people would get one of these if a bundle deal could get made by folks here as the price break on 10 of these things is big.

An example of something that is possible with the Neo Myth that isn't without it would be Quake. QuakeDS was modified to run in 4 MB of RAM (what a DS has stock). There's simply no way possible to squeeze Quake into the 512 KB or 256 KB of RAM you have on the SEGA CD 32X.

Even supplementing that with ROM? (or would you need a huge ROM for that, any any on-the-fly decompression would eat up CPU resource as well... though also increase data coming from the limited cartridge bus)


haha you port Quake and I'll buy one....... damn that sale was too easy!

Note of course it would be the Shareware Version, inless you own Quake, in which case you should be able to add the later levels in as well. (like the way Wolf32x and Doom are supposed to work)

[Mr. Ksoft]

I think 32X homebrew is an awesome new frontier that shouldn't be wasted on porting stuff. We can play that elsewhere, and better too. Let's make some brand new games-- even 15 years later we can expand the 32X library and make it a unique system worth owning.

I work on games, though I'm more artsy so I use easy GameMaker-like tools, and have some proposals for 32X game ideas that I would design and do art and music for if anyone is interested in taking on programming. I want to see the 32X's library improve but I can't wrap my head around code to save my life!

[matteus]

I think 32X homebrew is an awesome new frontier that shouldn't be wasted on porting stuff. We can play that elsewhere, and better too. Let's make some brand new games-- even 15 years later we can expand the 32X library and make it a unique system worth owning.

Urg you make it sound like writing a new game is really easy going... :|

[Chilly Willy]

Even supplementing that with ROM? (or would you need a huge ROM for that, any any on-the-fly decompression would eat up CPU resource as well... though also increase data coming from the limited cartridge bus)

It would use the CD for storage, otherwise it would need more ROM space. There is one mode of the NeoMyth that would work, but it would complicate things: copy mode. It's called that because it's the mode you put the cart in to copy from the flash rom into the psram. In that mode, up to 1MB of flash can be mapped at cart address 0 (where the rom starts in the MD), and up to 1MB of PSRAM can be mapped at cart address 0x200000 (2 MB, or half way through the cart space). Both the rom and the ram are bank selected, the rom in the flash rom, and the ram in the total amount of PSRAM. So if you wrote the homebrew correctly, you could have up to 64 MB of ROM and 5MB (maybe 8MB of RAM... still not sure how much the NeoMyth has, but it's at least 5MB) of RAM, just accessible 1MB at a time. Clearly, it would be easier to just require a CD.



I think 32X homebrew is an awesome new frontier that shouldn't be wasted on porting stuff. We can play that elsewhere, and better too. Let's make some brand new games-- even 15 years later we can expand the 32X library and make it a unique system worth owning.

I agree and disagree with this point - yes, new stuff would be nice, but ports are easier and quicker, especially for individual developers. Doing an all-new game is a LOT of work, and would require multiple people (it's not likely one person would be able to do the programming, the artwork, the sound, and the music all by themselves).

Besides, once you've ported a game, you can often modify it for different games. Look at SRB2 - it's made from Doom.

[Mr. Ksoft]

Urg you make it sound like writing a new game is really easy going... :|

Oh, I know it isn't... I make games myself (crappily, and in an unprofessional manner, but yeah. And it's not easy going for sure, seeing as I've been working on one game for over a year and am only 4 levels in due to bug-fests)

Just sayin' over time the 32X could become a neat platform. I mean, I like ports, but they just don't feel to me like they really accomplish much when you can play the game elsewhere. Additionally with these ports it's not like we can legally make carts and have that advantage of playing them on the system, ala the recent Genesis homebrew, unless it's a freeware title that's being converted. (Well, ok, there are flash carts, but those always feel like I'm playing roms)

Of course, if these early ports help pave the path for original 32x brew, I'm game.

[jamesdude]

How about this for an idea?

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h18/jamesdude_2006/Starfox32x.jpg

Seeing that Star Wars 32x had simular graphics. The 32x could handle this. There have been unofficial SNES to MD ports/conversions in the past.

[kool kitty89]

Ugh... I'm a Nintendo fan and SF is one of my SNES favorites, but no, just no. That would definitely be one of those games that would have to be written by scratch, and really not the kind of thing that would be attractive to do. It's something that has crossed my mind (particularly in comparison with Super FX and SVP), but if anything a more original take on such a game, and still quite an undertaking for homebrew.
I have wondered how some of those tunes would sound remixed on the Genesis though. ;)

Interesting that you mention that though, as I was recently thinking about another, related game: Starglider, or rather Starglider II, an earlier, independednt game by Argonaut that had some influence on Star Fox, but also was a big multiplatform computer game. (Amiga, ST, PC, Macintosh) With it being prominantly featured on Atari ST and Amiga, it would have seemed like a great game to port to the Sega CD, maybe even with some improvements. (like CD soundtrack, though perhaps just a CD version of the amazing soundtrack casette that came with it originally, probably similar sound effects as the Amiga version, maybe a bit of improvement there too, and probably smoother framerate with the faster CPU, maybe the ASIC could help a little as well)
Already in 16-colors, and the ST had a 9-bit palette like the Genesis, so friendly there as well. (of have the CD and genesis CPUs work in tandem, Fonzie mentioned you could probably render polygons 3x faster than on the Genesis alone with that type of setup)

I don't think they ever released the source though, so that's probably a no go for homebrew, still a cool what-if.
And it really is an awsome soundtrack: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CR4pj1ds5pM

[matteus]

Mmm the only polygon based game that ever made me go WOW was Virtua Racing. I find it hard to contemplate being amazed by anything that doesn't have some sort of texture mapped to it :) I find games like Thunder hawk and Battle corps more impressive but I guess that’s partially because I was privileged to own a pc back in the old days *gets out walking stick*

[kool kitty89]

I rather like the look of many older, untextured 3D games, X-Wing being one of my favorites. (note it does used polygon "decals" to approximate textures) And Star Fox does actually have some texture mapping in it on a few buildings and such. (and the Andross Cube) A bit in Stunt Racer FX as well.

[matteus]

X-Wing being one of my favorites. (note it does used polygon "decals" to approximate textures)

That was a class PC game it had some lovely landing animations, etc!

[The Jackal]

How about Game Genie 32X - upgrade the Megacart/Neo's bios to allow support and use codes for the 32x games stored on the cart.

Or: Game Genie support for the Mega/Sega Cd.

[Chilly Willy]

How about Game Genie 32X - upgrade the Megacart/Neo's bios to allow support and use codes for the 32x games stored on the cart.

Or: Game Genie support for the Mega/Sega Cd.

They already do - you use the GG codes on the image before you flash it. Most flashing software has the ability to accept GG codes.

[xXxTWO FACExXx]

Why doesn't someone finish cough...X-Men 32x?

[PimpUigi]

Playing as Rogue in that would have been so hot too.

[xXxTWO FACExXx]

Or cough cough....Virtua Hamster 32x?

[Chilly Willy]

Why doesn't someone finish cough...X-Men 32x?

Or cough cough....Virtua Hamster 32x?

No code, no idea what the rest of the game was meant to be, no art or music resources for missing parts of game... you should see a doctor about that cough. ;) :D

[lilmul123]

Would it be possible to port your code to C++? It's the only language I'm relatively familiar with (Besides Objective-C, which is useless unless you're an Apple fan) and I'd really like to get something going on the 32x.

[Chilly Willy]

Would it be possible to port your code to C++? It's the only language I'm relatively familiar with (Besides Objective-C, which is useless unless you're an Apple fan) and I'd really like to get something going on the 32x.

While it might be possible to do something in C++ on the 32X, I don't recommend it. C++ is too "heavy" for the 32X. You want to stick to C or assembly and keep it as light as possible.

[lilmul123]

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. How much assembly have you done on the 32x? Is it pretty much standard SuperH asm?

[TmEE]

32X has unmodified SH chips so the ASM is same as what programming manual for SH CPU says.

[Chilly Willy]

Yeah, SH2 assembly is no problem on the 32X. Look at the crt files in Wolf32X - lot's of good assembly there. As to C++, if you can program that, you should have no trouble with C. You just get rid of the object junk and go with straight functions. It's very simple compared to C++.

[Dirt Ball Gamer]

I was bored today and threw on Metal Head 32x. The textured 3d city background is actually pretty impressive looking, too bad the mechs look and control like feces. I was thinking how if you could have the virtua racing cars instead of mechs this game might actually make a fun extra level for virtua racing. May as well just throw on some machine guns and grenade launchers to those virtua cars also.:)

[Maeloko]

A customized version of Amulets and Armor (controls, visuals, tweak game play, ?systemlink? etc)

Its an abandonware first person rpg.
Link: http://www.abandonia.com/en/games/655/Amulets+and+Armor.html

Gameplay:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPcUHFk8c2w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QF4_UsrBFgU

[Da_Shocker]

I was bored today and threw on Metal Head 32x. The textured 3d city background is actually pretty impressive looking, too bad the mechs look and control like feces. I was thinking how if you could have the virtua racing cars instead of mechs this game might actually make a fun extra level for virtua racing. May as well just throw on some machine guns and grenade launchers to those virtua cars also.:)

Twisted Metal for the 32X?

[Dirt Ball Gamer]

Exactly!:) I realize there is probably no feasible way to mix two different game codes like that, but a guy can dream cant he?

[JDB]

I just have four words for 32x homebrew efforts:

PERFECT, OUTRUN, ARCADE, PORT

An arcade perfect Outrun (similar to Afterburner) would be mindblowingly awesome

[Chilly Willy]

Twisted Metal for the 32X?

Twisted Metal is one of my all-time favorite games. A 32X version would have been awesome!

[PimpUigi]

I hear you.
Twisted Metal is my favorite car game.

The first one specifically.
I thought it was so cool we could get a cockpit view, and they put so much thought into them.

Then TM2 comes out...no cockpit view.
Terrible.

Also those live action sequences that were deleted from TM1 were awesome, and would have made the game solidly better than all the rest to me.

[kool kitty89]

I was bored today and threw on Metal Head 32x. The textured 3d city background is actually pretty impressive looking, too bad the mechs look and control like feces. I was thinking how if you could have the virtua racing cars instead of mechs this game might actually make a fun extra level for virtua racing. May as well just throw on some machine guns and grenade launchers to those virtua cars also.:)

Intresting that you mention this, I'm not sure, but I think metal Head might actually use raycasting for the environment, with polygon models just used for objects, vehicles, and enemies. (all the buildings seem to be arranged at right angles as well, with flat ground, so more like Wolf3D or AvP on the Jaguar than Doom or even Gloom -which has a fixed hight lke the former two, but walls that can be positioned outside of right angles)
That siad, a raycasting based racing game could be cool, and to the average games would still probably look like "true" 3D.

Hmm, has anyone ever made a racing game based on the Doom engine?

[Honey the Cat]

I still say Doom 32X should be finished and someone who knows how to work with YM2413 soundchips could give the ungodly music a facelift (maybe even conforming to the unique Genesis style). Using the 32X Doom engine it should be possible (albeit extremely time consuming) to do Doom II and Final Doom for 32X.

[wavelX]

Some fresh, original ideas:


1. "32X Trivia Whiz"-- The text could rendered with polygons, so if you find a question confusing, you can look at it from a new perspective.

2. "Warehouse Pilot"--This was a game I originally thought would work well for the Super FX chip. It involves flying around a very large room full of brown cubes, taking inventory.

3. "SNES NCAA Basketball: The Spectator Sport"--This would be an upgrade to the original scaling/rotating SNES game, but with the "levitating court in blue infinity" given a reasonable, non-blue crowd.

4. Virtua Hamster: San Francisco Edition

[Chilly Willy]

I still say Doom 32X should be finished and someone who knows how to work with YM2413 soundchips could give the ungodly music a facelift (maybe even conforming to the unique Genesis style). Using the 32X Doom engine it should be possible (albeit extremely time consuming) to do Doom II and Final Doom for 32X.

Err - I never said I wasn't going to work on it. It's on the list right after the CD version of Wolf32X.

[kool kitty89]

And you're going to base it on one of the more modern sourse ports, right? Not anything to do with the original 32x port.

And honey, the Genesis doesn't have a YM2413, that's in the Japanese Master System, the Genesis uses a YM2612. ;) I seem to recall that TmEE mentioned part of the poor quality was using the GEMS sound engine, but that can't be the only reason, as even GEMS can sound decent when used properly (though ofen simple/bland, like common Adlib/SB compositions, but sever games still made it sound pretty good), and some of EA's own sound engines tended to sound worse, but Doom was just butchered. (I mean the in-game music in Sewer Shark is better)

Well some of the music was passible, closer to the PC SB rendition (which are perfectly acceptable, though could be better), but a lot (especially E1M1) sounded awful, you'd think they'd have at least made the 2st level sound better for first impressions. ;)

[Chilly Willy]

And you're going to base it on one of the more modern sourse ports, right? Not anything to do with the original 32x port.

I've been looking over PrBoom+ to see if I can't keep some of the features compared to a plain Doom. Nothing like OpenGL rendering, obviously.

[kool kitty89]

Are there any modern ports that have been optimized to be more suitable for something like the 32x? (like for cell phones or something likt that)

[Chilly Willy]

Are there any modern ports that have been optimized to be more suitable for something like the 32x? (like for cell phones or something likt that)

No. Even the most primitive cell phone is miles ahead of the 32X. Even the some of the oldest PDAs at least have more memory, which is the primary limitation on the 32X. All modern ports at least assume more memory. Most assume a much more powerful CPU. Many assume infinite resources and power (relatively speaking).

[Honey the Cat]

My idea was to simply finish E2 of the 32X doom and add E3 and maybe E4. Maybe it's been done though I don't know.

[kool kitty89]

The original 32x version doesn't have sourse openly available, does it?

[Chilly Willy]

The original 32x version doesn't have sourse openly available, does it?

No. But the Jaguar version which WAS released has the 32X ties in it. What's missing is the 32X specific files. For example, you can see where the 32X version disables the directions a bad guy can face. So the Jaguar and 32X versions use a common code base, but have different system specific files, and the 32X has some functionality disabled (to save space in the cart). I should look over that again... maybe it's possible to recreate the missing parts to have the original project.

[kool kitty89]

The Jaguar port does have some key things missing compared to the PC version (namely altered/missing textures, and some modification to levels) that transfers over to most contemporary console ports. (32x, PSX/Saturn, and 3DO, SNES being an original port)

Hey, that's a thought, the GBA is limited to 256 kB of work RAM as well, and they managed to pack a lot more of the game into it than the 32x version, but again, probably no free sourse, but that version is supposedly the most direct conversion of the original Jaguar port, so at least it shows that it's possible. (and that might indeed be a good starting point) I don't remember if they included 8-sided sprites in the GBA version.

The Jag version uses a lot of 68k C code, right, with RISC done in assembler? So might it be possible to move the 68k stuff over to the Genesis CPU and working on adapting the rest for the 32x side (plus the audio), or is the 68k's work RAM too limited for what was used in the Jaguar version?

[NeoVamp]

Its "Source" not Sourse.

Just felt like pointing that out.

[Chilly Willy]

The Jaguar port does have some key things missing compared to the PC version (namely altered/missing textures, and some modification to levels) that transfers over to most contemporary console ports. (32x, PSX/Saturn, and 3DO, SNES being an original port)

Hey, that's a thought, the GBA is limited to 256 kB of work RAM as well, and they managed to pack a lot more of the game into it than the 32x version, but again, probably no free sourse, but that version is supposedly the most direct conversion of the original Jaguar port, so at least it shows that it's possible. (and that might indeed be a good starting point) I don't remember if they included 8-sided sprites in the GBA version.

From the FAQ: http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/snes/file/588285/1774

10. NINTENDO GAME BOY ADVANCE DOOM
==================================
o A Nintendo Game Boy Advance, model AGB-001, and a Nintendo Game Boy Advance
SP, model AGS-001, were used as test systems for the GBA Doom game described
in this document. For testing multiplayer games, these system were connected
to identical systems via one or more Nintendo Game Boy Advance Game Link
cables (model AGB-005).

o Pros: The Game Boy Advance has a built-in screen, battery pack and link port,
making GBA Doom more portable than any desktop-PC or console Doom 1 game.
Multiplayer link ability, allowing 2 players in Cooperative games, and 2 to 4
players in Deathmatch games. Includes 8 Deathmatch-only bonus maps not found
in other commercial Doom games. Some flaws have been corrected in some maps
which were copied from earlier console Doom games. Games in progress may be
saved to any of 4 save-game slots in the Doom Game Pak, and save-game data
includes controller, lighting and audio settings. 2 lighting-style choices,
"Dynamic" (normal), and "Static" (low light levels are increased, and lights
that normally flash are always on). 6-level "Brightness" adjustment option
(somewhat similar to the "Gamma Correction" feature in the PC Doom games),
which controls the maximum brightness of both Dynamic and Static lighting
modes. Includes an "Autorun" option (player always runs). In the status
bar, current ammo levels and ammo limits are always displayed for all weapons
(in most other console Doom games, only the currently selected weapon can
have an ammo level displayed). Some controller customizing allowed (any of 6
preset button configurations may be selected).

o Cons: The original Game Boy Advance does not have any built-in lighting for
its screen, which means that GBA Doom can be difficult to view unless the
right amount of external light is hitting the screen at the right angle at
all times (a later model of the GBA, the GBA SP, does have built-in screen
lighting). Saved games may occasionally become corrupted, and fail to reload
correctly. Cooperative games have a 2-player limit, even when 3 or more GBAs
are linked. This game uses a slightly modified version of the Jaguar Doom
mapset (most of the maps in Atari Jaguar Doom are edited/simplified versions
of the original PC Doom maps), and includes no other single-player maps. The
player character can potentially become trapped behind a wall or barrier on
certain maps. Only 7 monster types in the game (tying with the Jaguar and
Sega 32X games for least variety). No Spectre Demon. No Cyberdemon or
Spider Mastermind monsters. No Blur Artifacts. No light-amplification
visors. No crushing ceilings. Weapons are cyclic-access only. In some of
the preset button configurations weapon-swapping can be awkward, and weapon
changes can occur unintentionally when performing certain maneuvers. Some
rooms in some map levels are inaccessible. The sound effect used to indicate
a player taking damage is also mistakenly used whenever a player lands unhurt
after falling a short distance. Frag counts for players in Deathmatch games
are only displayed in the Automap view. No tally screen is displayed, and no
opportunity to save the game is given, when a player goes through the exit to
the "MILITARY BASE" map level.



The Jag version uses a lot of 68k C code, right, with RISC done in assembler? So might it be possible to move the 68k stuff over to the Genesis CPU and working on adapting the rest for the 32x side (plus the audio), or is the 68k's work RAM too limited for what was used in the Jaguar version?

There's no such thing as 68k C code. There's 68k assembly, and then there's C. Anywho, the Jaguar code is mostly C with a smidgen of 68k assembly, while most of the rendering code was altered to assembly for their object processor (which, by the way, looks an AWFUL lot like 68k assembly... I think the "RISC" processor in the Jaguar is just a simplified 68000 with custom commands for drawing).

I'm not positive since we don't have the 32X files, but I think the game code runs on one SH2 while the rendering is done on the other SH2. It might be they ran the game code on the 68000 - it is a simplified version after all, it might fit in the 68000 Work RAM (remember that all the data is in the rom, only variables like the player status and object lists would be in RAM). Like I said, I need to go back through the Jaguar code to see if I can find more hints about how they did it.

Anywho, a SEGA CD 32X version of Doom certainly could run the game logic on the CD 68000, while the rendering was done by the 32X. That would make it VERY much like the Jaguar version. Remember that the 68000 in the Jaguar runs at 13.3 MHz, and the SCD 68000 at 12.5 MHz. This was one of the ideas I had for the CD 32X version of Doom as it makes better use of the resources, meaning a faster, smoother game.

Without the CD, the MD 68000 is only 7.7 MHz, and only has 64KB of Work RAM (the SCD 68k has 512 KB), so you can see that running the game logic on the 68000 for the MD version would be slower, and you'd have to really watch the RAM usage. Another issue with running the game code on the 68000 would be that it would be running from the ROM, and while the 68000 is using the ROM, the SH2s cannot. So running code on the 68000 from the ROM would slow down any rendering by the SH2 fetching gfx data from the ROM, again slowing the game. Wolf32X copies a small code loop into the 68000 Work RAM that the 68000 runs so that it isn't constantly accessing the ROM. That allows the SH2s almost free access to the ROM, making Wolf32X faster.

So you can see the trade offs for various ways of running Doom on different platforms.

[KnightWarrior]

How about Samurai Shodown 2, 3 ,4 or 5 on the 32X

[matteus]

How about Samurai Shodown 2, 3 ,4 or 5 on the 32X

great idea do you have the source code? :P

[mick_aka]

Would love to see a port of Transport Tycoon, one of my fav games ever.

And yes the source is openly available.


Now that I think about it werent Hexen and Heretic made open source? and both based on the Doom engine...

[TmEE]

Heretic is something fun, don't care for Hexen

[Chilly Willy]

Heretic is something fun, don't care for Hexen

Yeah, I like Heretic better as well. Once I get Doom done, Heretic shouldn't be too hard to make using the same procedure.

[Da_Shocker]

How about Samurai Shodown 2, 3 ,4 or 5 on the 32X

I doubt the code is available for it but it would've been interesting to see the 32X with Neo ports.

[mick_aka]

Yeah, I like Heretic better as well. Once I get Doom done, Heretic shouldn't be too hard to make using the same procedure.

That would be truly awesome, and I would pay handsomely for it on a cart!

[kool kitty89]

There's no such thing as 68k C code. There's 68k assembly, and then there's C. Anywho, the Jaguar code is mostly C with a smidgen of 68k assembly, while most of the rendering code was altered to assembly for their object processor (which, by the way, looks an AWFUL lot like 68k assembly... I think the "RISC" processor in the Jaguar is just a simplified 68000 with custom commands for drawing).

I just meant all the stuff done in C was for 68k, referring to this previous discussion:

I can believe they did their own C compiler, but I doubt it did anything for RISC. If you look at the Jaguar DOOM code, the only C is in the 68000 files. The RISC stuff is all assembly. So id wrote at least an assembler for the RISC stuff. Perhaps they did a C compiler for the RISC as well, but they didn't need it given the code they were working on.

Given there were lots of C compilers for the 68000 floating around (for the Amiga, Atari ST, and Apple Mac), writing their own C compiler for the 68000 is also not much of a feat. More than likely, they simply adapted an existing one to their needs.

As I understad it, the Jaguar has 5 processors, the 68000 CPU/host, 3 inside the "Tom" ASIC: blitter, object processor, and "GPU" (general purpose 32-bit custom RISC processor with 64 "general purpose" registers -accessed in 2 32 register banks), and the last one in the "Jerry" ASIC referred to as the "DSP" ("digital sound processor"), another RISC CPU, similar to the "GPU," but tied to a 16-bit external data path (limited by the use of the 68k), and for some reason featuring a hard-coded 6-cycle access delay. (and I beleive a modified instruction set compared to the "GPU," as well as some additional bugs -distinct from those of the GPU)


Anywho, a SEGA CD 32X version of Doom certainly could run the game logic on the CD 68000, while the rendering was done by the 32X. That would make it VERY much like the Jaguar version. Remember that the 68000 in the Jaguar runs at 13.3 MHz, and the SCD 68000 at 12.5 MHz. This was one of the ideas I had for the CD 32X version of Doom as it makes better use of the resources, meaning a faster, smoother game.

Do you think you can get Doom working with the limited RAM available in the Sega CD?

[Chilly Willy]

I just meant all the stuff done in C was for 68k, referring to this previous discussion:

Okay, that's makes sense. :)



As I understad it, the Jaguar has 5 processors, the 68000 CPU/host, 3 inside the "Tom" ASIC: blitter, object processor, and "GPU" (general purpose 32-bit custom RISC processor with 64 "general purpose" registers -accessed in 2 32 register banks), and the last one in the "Jerry" ASIC referred to as the "DSP" ("digital sound processor"), another RISC CPU, similar to the "GPU," but tied to a 16-bit external data path (limited by the use of the 68k), and for some reason featuring a hard-coded 6-cycle access delay. (and I beleive a modified instruction set compared to the "GPU," as well as some additional bugs -distinct from those of the GPU)

Yes, the Jaguar is a real mess, which is part of the reason it failed. If the 32X/Saturn were "difficult" to program, the Jaguar was "insane". ;) I rather expect that many devs simply ignored much of the Jaguar hardware to make the task easier on themselves. Jaguar Doom certainly does.



Do you think you can get Doom working with the limited RAM available in the Sega CD?

Yes, with compression on the graphics and sound, it should be workable. The idea is that only the game logic will run on the CD side, and compressed graphics will be passed on to the 32X along with the game state info needed to do the rendering. I've been experimenting with different methods of "texture" compression to find something usable by the 32X. I want the graphics needed for the level to fit into the 32X SDRAM, but there's only 256KB, so compression is clearly needed. I'm looking at formats that give 3:1 or 4:1 compression, but can be decompressed on the fly by the drawing routine with only a minimum of slowdown. In the same manner, sound would be compressed, stored in the CD Word RAM, and decompressed on the fly by the MD 68000 for playback through the PWM channels.

So the game would be altered to do something like this:
Extract and compress graphics needed for current level into CD Word RAM.
DMA data from Word RAM to 32X SDRAM.
Extract and compress sound effects to CD Word RAM.
Extract level state info to CD Program RAM.
Load level game logic.
Run level on CD 68000. Commands are sent through the communication regs to the MD 68000 to play sound effects, and to tell the MD 68000 to tell the 32X side when to process the next frame, along with render state info.

That's the basic plan for the CD version at the moment. Dividing things like that should make it possible to fit everything into the RAM available, and make best use of the processors.

[matteus]

wow that sounds incredibly complicated! Regards to the compression will it be lossless?

[Flygon]

I doubt it'll be lossless (To achieve those ratios, you'd want a much more powerful CPU if it is lossless) but I doubt the quality loss will be that harmful.

[Chilly Willy]

wow that sounds incredibly complicated! Regards to the compression will it be lossless?

Hell no! You can't compress video 3:1 or 4:1 losslessly. You're lucky to get 20% on lossless anything except for text. That's where the experimenting comes in - looking at the various methods to see which one is acceptable give the way Doom draws the graphics.

[kool kitty89]

Yes, the Jaguar is a real mess, which is part of the reason it failed. If the 32X/Saturn were "difficult" to program, the Jaguar was "insane". ;) I rather expect that many devs simply ignored much of the Jaguar hardware to make the task easier on themselves. Jaguar Doom certainly does.

Yeah, at least it's got a full 2 MB to work with though. A lot of interesting what if discussions on the Jag though. :)





Yes, with compression on the graphics and sound, it should be workable. The idea is that only the game logic will run on the CD side, and compressed graphics will be passed on to the 32X along with the game state info needed to do the rendering. I've been experimenting with different methods of "texture" compression to find something usable by the 32X. I want the graphics needed for the level to fit into the 32X SDRAM, but there's only 256KB, so compression is clearly needed. I'm looking at formats that give 3:1 or 4:1 compression, but can be decompressed on the fly by the drawing routine with only a minimum of slowdown. In the same manner, sound would be compressed, stored in the CD Word RAM, and decompressed on the fly by the MD 68000 for playback through the PWM channels.

And offer the option for CD tracks as well I would assume. (being able to add the 3DO sound track or one of the remixes would be cool, or of course use that ambient PSX ones for those who like them)

As for texture compression, might it be possible to get away with 16-color textures without looking too off? (not a fixed 16-color palette, but using optimized colors selected from the main 256 color palette for each texture)

[Chilly Willy]

Yeah, at least it's got a full 2 MB to work with though. A lot of interesting what if discussions on the Jag though. :)

Yeah, that's the best part of the Jaguar - the RAM.


And offer the option for CD tracks as well I would assume. (being able to add the 3DO sound track or one of the remixes would be cool, or of course use that ambient PSX ones for those who like them)

That's my intention for the music. Especially since a lot of people here seem to detest FM music.



As for texture compression, might it be possible to get away with 16-color textures without looking too off? (not a fixed 16-color palette, but using optimized colors selected from the main 256 color palette for each texture)

Maybe. That would help as well. I should do some experiments on that, particularly since textures don't use close to 256 colors - the way lighting is handled in Doom is that the 256 color palette has a range of brightness levels, and a lookup table converts the value in the texture to a REAL palette index based on the brightness for the area where that texture is being drawn. That's why things further away or in shadow look darker. It's also why scenes don't look as good as you would think they should for 256 colors. You can't use all 256 colors for the best possible look since most of the palette is dedicated to shades of colors for the brightness.

[kool kitty89]

I like FM music (though with Genesis you've got the PSG in there too, and the option to use the YM2612's DAC -plus the CD PCM chip, but then it's kind of pointless with CD-DA possible -although tere are a fair number of PC releases on CD, particularly rereleases, that didn't use CD tracks in spite of having plenty of space free), 32x Doom's renditions are just terribly poor for the most part (if you go through all of them a few are pretty decent though, maybe even comperable to SB), generally a good deal poorer than the PC version's SB renditions (which aren't perfect, but certainly acceptable).

Although, some people seem to think the SB music sounds "the same" as the 32x music...

[Honey the Cat]

You could use the XTDoom MP3's for the CD music. They're more faithful to the original DooM.

[Chilly Willy]

I like FM music (though with Genesis you've got the PSG in there too, and the option to use the YM2612's DAC -plus the CD PCM chip, but then it's kind of pointless with CD-DA possible -although tere are a fair number of PC releases on CD, particularly rereleases, that didn't use CD tracks in spite of having plenty of space free), 32x Doom's renditions are just terribly poor for the most part (if you go through all of them a few are pretty decent though, maybe even comperable to SB), generally a good deal poorer than the PC version's SB renditions (which aren't perfect, but certainly acceptable).

Although, some people seem to think the SB music sounds "the same" as the 32x music...

Well, it depends on the SB... the 32X is nearly identical to the AdLib and original SB and SB16. It's only once you reach the AWE series and wavetable synthesis replaced FM chips that you start to do better. The GUS would also sound better as it too used wavetable synthesis with actual instrument samples.

[kool kitty89]

I'm comparing it to the SB-16 emulation in DOSBox and VDMSound (granted those lack the poor analog component issues the real SB had, though some later compatibles were better as seen in TmEE's comparison, I remember whatever SB-16 compatible card we had in my win95 PC sounded pretty darn clear for X-Wing)

I often play Doom in DOSbox set to SB-16 for music for fun, and almost always for X-Wing (they did a really good job with the composition in the 1994 CD Collector's edition, improved over the music used in the floppy release for sure, and I generally prefer it to general midi -or at least my PC's generic general midi)

The quality of th emusic in 32x is intolerable at points, E1M1 in particular is rather painful to listen to.

[Chilly Willy]

Maybe something is wrong with the sound in your SEGA. E1M1 sounds good to me, and that even comparing it to new source ports using sampled instruments. :D

[kool kitty89]

I don't have my 32x yet (I hope to be getting one from my uncle when finds it along with his Master System), I've only heard it in Fusion, and youtube recordings, like these:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UhGo7P7Q0U
2UhGo7P7Q0U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhxdAhC2sFI
AhxdAhC2sFI

Not soure how accurate that sound blaster live is, but this is what I'm used to hearing in dosbox:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yr-lQZzevwA
yr-lQZzevwA

That overly loud bass beat in 32x starting at ~0:17 is probably the worst part, otherwise the instruments still sound a bit off.

a bunch more examples here: http://sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7492&highlight=doom+music


Oh, and here's the Xbox doom classic version (bonus in Doom 3), incuded as that general midi sounds more or less identical to that of my old Athlon XP PC's onboard sound and my current laptop's as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofdtXKNdZd4

[Chilly Willy]

I don't have my 32x yet (I hope to be getting one from my uncle when finds it along with his Master System), I've only heard it in Fusion, and youtube recordings, like these:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UhGo7P7Q0U
2UhGo7P7Q0U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhxdAhC2sFI
AhxdAhC2sFI

Not soure how accurate that sound blaster live is, but this is what I'm used to hearing in dosbox:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yr-lQZzevwA
yr-lQZzevwA

That overly loud bass beat in 32x starting at ~0:17 is probably the worst part, otherwise the instruments still sound a bit off.

a bunch more examples here: http://sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7492&highlight=doom+music


Oh, and here's the Xbox doom classic version (bonus in Doom 3), incuded as that general midi sounds more or less identical to that of my old Athlon XP PC's onboard sound and my current laptop's as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofdtXKNdZd4

Okay, it's not identical, but it still doesn't sound like crap. It just has less treble and more base.

Anywho, it won't matter on my conversion - you'll just use whatever you want. :D

[kool kitty89]

So you're not going to even attempt a cart version, just the CD one? (I guess that would make sense given that there's already a cart version)

[Chilly Willy]

So you're not going to even attempt a cart version, just the CD one? (I guess that would make sense given that there's already a cart version)

I might... I want to work on the CD version first since it would be the best. Another issue with a cart version would be trying to fit it all on a cart. I'd really have to use the full 64 Mb of the MD-Pro 64. The only other choice would be to generate a cart image for each level and rely on the save game to let the user continue the game.

[matteus]

Glad to hear you've gone with the CD version! It makes things that bit more interesting seeing as there were only 4 32x cd games all of which were crappy FMV ports.

Out of interest what kind of open source games would be perfect for this setup?

Are we talking Open Source Dos games of the 256 colour EGA/VGA era?

Would Beneath a Steel Sky be possible?

[kool kitty89]

Hey, there's an open sourse version of Jazz Jackribbit now too, not sure how well the 32x would handel it though. (if you were going to do it all on the 32x and not convert anything to be done by the Genesis VDP) Also not sure how openjaz compares to the original DOS version, but it looks liek the original had the same minimum system requirements as Doom. (33 MHz 386, 4 MB of RAM, VGA)

[Chilly Willy]

EGA/VGA games are certainly worth checking, but again, the main issue is is there enough RAM for the game? Doom will only work because I'm going to hack the shit out of it to MAKE it work. It's probably too much work for most devs, depending on how much they like the game. EGA/VGA games that ran in 640K should be fairly easy to do on the 32X. VGA games that ran in 4M may/will take a lot of work.

One thing I'm looking over for the CD 32X that would be nifty is scummvm. There are some things it does (like play mp3s) that you clearly can't do on the 32X, but many of the games it plays were meant for lower end systems. Again, memory may not allow this to be possible.

One thing to keep in mind - I'm still playing around with the Neo Myth - if I can figure out how to make the PSRAM in it work with the 32X, I may work on some "impossible" things - they'll just require that you have the Neo Myth to serve as extra RAM. It would be like those Saturn games that require the RAM cart. The Neo Myth has at least 5 MB of RAM addressable in it. That's more than enough to make many otherwise impossible games possible for the CD and/or 32X.

[kool kitty89]

I think Wing Commander was able to work with with 640 kB, maybe WC II as well. (but WC I is kind of moot as there's already a nece version on Sega CD, the music change is dumb, but one should easily be able to hack that, swapping out the redbook files -preferably with the wonderful arranged tracks from the kilrathi saga re-releases)

That, and I don't think they've released the sourse, or a shareware version of the game. (technically you can get WC I/II free if you download one of the patches for Killrathi Saga, but I don't think they intened for people to do that)

[Chilly Willy]

Hey, there's an open sourse version of Jazz Jackribbit now too, not sure how well the 32x would handel it though. (if you were going to do it all on the 32x and not convert anything to be done by the Genesis VDP) Also not sure how openjaz compares to the original DOS version, but it looks liek the original had the same minimum system requirements as Doom. (33 MHz 386, 4 MB of RAM, VGA)

It actually looks like it would be doable on the 32X, at least until Feb this year. He changed it from C to C++ at that point. :mad:

The worst part is that he's corrected bugs and added stuff (like sound) since switching to C++. So to do it on the 32X, you'd really have to convert it back to C again. Looks like an interesting game for the 32X.

[PimpUigi]

That would be a really cool addition to the 32X library.

[matteus]

jazzy jack rabbit was a fab game :-) once your library for 32x cd development is finalised i'll definately look at it. Its been too long since i did anything written in C and would certainly like to get a hello world running if nothing else! So we're looking at open source ega/vga using only the standard 640k mmm i'm not sure if Decent has been mentioned? (i'm not a fan) i Haven't checked the requirements as i'm writing this from my mobile! it probably needed ems i'm guessing

[Da_Shocker]

I think Decent was annouced for the 32X at one point.

[Chilly Willy]

EGA/VGA, 640K, and written in C... those would be the easiest games to convert. :)

[kool kitty89]

Descent might be avaiable in C, the quick search I came up with showed C++ though (but I think that's a more recent version, with the original source being released in 1997.

In any case it's another 33 MHz 386, 4MB, VGA minimum game like Doom and Jazz. (all 3 being shareware as well)
That would be another preferred requirement, right, having a free/shareware version available to avoid legal issues.

Edit: this seems to be a fairly useful page for Descent. (including original Descent I and II source releases) http://icculus.org/d2x/

[KnightWarrior]

So Doom 32XCD would load a little faster with the added RAM from the Cart??

That would be funny if the 32XCD version of Doom would be better then the US Saturn version



EGA/VGA games are certainly worth checking, but again, the main issue is is there enough RAM for the game? Doom will only work because I'm going to hack the shit out of it to MAKE it work. It's probably too much work for most devs, depending on how much they like the game. EGA/VGA games that ran in 640K should be fairly easy to do on the 32X. VGA games that ran in 4M may/will take a lot of work.

One thing I'm looking over for the CD 32X that would be nifty is scummvm. There are some things it does (like play mp3s) that you clearly can't do on the 32X, but many of the games it plays were meant for lower end systems. Again, memory may not allow this to be possible.

One thing to keep in mind - I'm still playing around with the Neo Myth - if I can figure out how to make the PSRAM in it work with the 32X, I may work on some "impossible" things - they'll just require that you have the Neo Myth to serve as extra RAM. It would be like those Saturn games that require the RAM cart. The Neo Myth has at least 5 MB of RAM addressable in it. That's more than enough to make many otherwise impossible games possible for the CD and/or 32X.

[Chilly Willy]

So Doom 32XCD would load a little faster with the added RAM from the Cart??

You wouldn't need to process the graphics and sound, so you would THINK it would load faster. However, the main limit on loading is how slow the CD is. Remember that it only reads at 1X (150KB/sec), max. Compressing the graphics and sound will add to that, but it won't be like twice as long. The main thing the Neo Myth would do is make it easier to program as the game wouldn't need to be hacked to fit in the tight memory.



That would be funny if the 32XCD version of Doom would be better then the US Saturn version

Well, the Saturn version is designed to work in tight memory as well, just not as tight as the 32X. :D

The Saturn version could have been as good as the PC if they had supported the 4M RAM cart.

[doomguy]

i think that version has more to do with bad programing ah well atleast the japanese version is better

[kool kitty89]

Well, the Saturn version is designed to work in tight memory as well, just not as tight as the 32X. :D

The Saturn version could have been as good as the PC if they had supported the 4M RAM cart.

As I understand it, the Saturn version was rather poor as it was an unptimized conversion of the PSX port. (though the japanese release is supposed to be a bit better in terms of framerate -still a good deal lower than PSX though)

[matteus]

completely off subject but has anyone seen the ZX specturm version of doom? it amused me no end!

wolf 3d spectrum 128k http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n53-M6W2wEU

doom spectrum 128k http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3v7cFGneuaw

[doomguy]

i think a good fighter or fps would be great on the 32x but an rpg may be worth thinking about as i dont think their is one for the 32x at all talk about filling a gap lol

[kool kitty89]

completely off subject but has anyone seen the ZX specturm version of doom? it amused me no end!

wolf 3d spectrum 128k http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n53-M6W2wEU

doom spectrum 128k http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3v7cFGneuaw

I've seen those, and the Wolf3D one is particularly impressive IMO (sure the screen is tiny and it's 1-bit color, but it still looks pretty good, and is pretty smooth) That's a newer homebrew game though, "Doom" came out around th etime th eoriginal did, and more as a promotional demo than anything else iirc, not a port at all, but an original game. (pretty neat for what it is)

[Speedle]

completely off subject but has anyone seen the ZX specturm version of doom? it amused me no end!

wolf 3d spectrum 128k http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n53-M6W2wEU

doom spectrum 128k http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3v7cFGneuaw

it never ceases to amaze what some fans can do! simply amazing conidiering the hardware! i loved my speccy :)

[kool kitty89]

That Doom on the Specturm wasn't homebrew, but an official game released in 1996 as I understand it.

[SketchTurner94]

Would Street Fighter II Turbo be able to fit on a 32X cart?

[Da_Shocker]

Would Street Fighter II Turbo be able to fit on a 32X cart?

Yes

[zetastrike]

Would it be possible make a port of Mega Man 8 or X4/X5 using the 32XCD? That would be sweet. I always thought the whole 32XCD was a complete waste of potential. They could have made some great games, but they thought we wanted a less grainy version of Night Trap.

[Chilly Willy]

No source = no port! If there's no source, DON'T BOTHER ASKING IF A DEV DOESN'T BRING IT UP FIRST!!! It WON'T be worked on.

[Bablefish]

I have an idea and it came from another part of this forum. What about a 32X controller guided version of the Japanese arcade game Segasonic

[TmEE]

No source = no port! If there's no source, DON'T BOTHER ASKING IF A DEV DOESN'T BRING IT UP FIRST!!! It WON'T be worked on.

:roll:

[Honey the Cat]

Look at ZBlood. It's a recreation of Blood for ZDoom, but the source code for the original Blood was never released, yet it saw a fan remake. Also, how do you think the 32x would handle the original System Shock?

[Chilly Willy]

Look at ZBlood. It's a recreation of Blood for ZDoom, but the source code for the original Blood was never released, yet it saw a fan remake. Also, how do you think the 32x would handle the original System Shock?

Like I said, if a dev mentions it, it might get made, so you can talk about it. Otherwise, it would need to have source. And just a quick look at SS leads me to think you'd need more memory.

[zetastrike]

No source = no port! If there's no source, DON'T BOTHER ASKING IF A DEV DOESN'T BRING IT UP FIRST!!! It WON'T be worked on.

Ah, I was being high pathetical. I realize it won't happen. I was just asking for an opinion if it could be done to good effect.

[Chilly Willy]

Ah, I was being high pathetical. I realize it won't happen. I was just asking for an opinion if it could be done to good effect.

You weren't any worse than anyone else, I just hit my limit of people asking about things that have roughly 0% chance of ever getting done. ;) :D

Sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings. :(

[matteus]

i'd mentioned beneath a steel sky, i think it uses the scum. I'm sure you'd mentioned that in a previous post some where :-)

[NeoVamp]

i'd mentioned beneath a steel sky, i think it uses the scum. I'm sure you'd mentioned that in a previous post some where :-)

No Beneath a Steel Sky does not use Scumm, its supported in ScummVM
but the engine inside the game is not Scumm.

Also why would anyone want an adventure on the 32X? thats Sega CD territory.

[Chilly Willy]

No Beneath a Steel Sky does not use Scumm, its supported in ScummVM
but the engine inside the game is not Scumm.

Also why would anyone want an adventure on the 32X? thats Sega CD territory.

You need the 32X for the graphics. Scummvm seems like a pretty nifty project for the CD32X.

[KnightWarrior]

Who was the one that made a jpg file on the 32X, So you can view it??

[matteus]

You need the 32X for the graphics. Scummvm seems like a pretty nifty project for the CD32X.

I rest my case :) everyone dust off their mega-mouse

[Chilly Willy]

I rest my case :) everyone dust off their mega-mouse

When I first got my MegaMouse, I thought the same thing. I even went to the scummvm web page and looked over the code. It'll take some work, so I decided to put it off. At least until after I've got a good working CD32X base running.

[Dirt Ball Gamer]

Sorry if this is dumb (as I know next to nothing about tech stuff), but I believe the source code to the super mario games 1-world is available online. It would be neat to have them all on a compilation disc for 32xcd. Although it is a little pointless as most people own a SNES and these games. I guess I just wonder if the 32x could do a good version of SMW, or if the hardware is too different.

[PimpUigi]

I think it would be pretty funny and cool to have SMW, DKC, and SMW2 on 32X.
While we're at it, Link to the Past, and Super Metroid.

Then there's no reason to own a SNES ever again.

[TmEE]

well, good luck converting those disasms and stuff to incompatible architecture......

[Dirt Ball Gamer]

Don't worry, if I get started on it tonight it should be ready sometime in the next 97 years earth time. All I have to do is learn how to code and stuff first.

[Chilly Willy]

Don't worry, if I get started on it tonight it should be ready sometime in the next 97 years earth time. All I have to do is learn how to code and stuff first.

:D

Well, everyone starts somewhere, and if it's something you like, it may provide the incentive to keep at it.

The architecture is pretty different, but that doesn't mean it can't be done, just that it's more work to do it.

[kool kitty89]

I think it would be pretty funny and cool to have SMW

Well there is that funky "Super Mario World 64" pirate cart for MD/Genesis, but that's not 32x of course. (and other odd pirate/homebrew/hacks to SMW for NES and DKC for NES -and a DKC knockoff pirate MD/Genesis game)

[Dirt Ball Gamer]

I wonder why they left out Yoshi in the "Super Mario World 64" pirate cart. That always bugged me but other than that it was a pretty nifty hack.

[Maeloko]

Lets homebrew a Gears of War 32x.

[matteus]

Lets homebrew a Gears of War 32x.

ROTFL That response deserves rep!

[moonmaster1]

What genny games have source code available?

On a technicality sonic is so torn apart you would need a source code anymore.

I'm also aware that Mr Nutz 2 has a source code available.

Hidden Palace topic (http://forums.hidden-palace.org/viewtopic.php?t=2802&sid=ea0b8e598b99afd1dd5685d3b6147b21)

It would be sweet if any more of these were found so they can be tweaked or ported to the 32x or sega cd.

[doomguy]

I think an arcade port of MJs Moonwalker would have been awsome on the 32x.

[PimpUigi]

OMFG That would be just too sweet!

[kool kitty89]

I think an arcade port of MJs Moonwalker would have been awsome on the 32x.

Or... CD32x with CD recordings of th eactual tracks. ;)

[Guntz]

My dream 32X CD game would be Garfield: Caught in the Act, ported back from the PC with the amazing audio and Alien Landscape level and even have some of the beta/lost levels resurrected. :D

Alas, I doubt that would ever happen... Nobody cares about this long forgotten Sega treasure... :( Maybe the fact that the PC version of CiTA is in a Windows Shell could better it's chances of being ported.

[PimpUigi]

Or... CD32x with CD recordings of th eactual tracks. ;)

CD instrumentals ; )

[Xeniczone]

Has anyone suggested RockBand as a Sega CD-32X game? It would be perfect, plus I see no reason that Rockband shouldn't run on the Sega CD-32X.

[PimpUigi]

It's on the Mega Drive 4 in Brazil isn't it?

[Xeniczone]

Yeah, but from what I hear it is crap. Plus it isn't CD-32X, it is just Genesis. So the sound and graphics probably aren't the best.

The reason I say it should be on CD-32X is because it would be 3D just like the game PS3 version, but it will still use the CD so it would basically be the exact song. I would have to do some research because it would basically have to run 2 channels. One channel for the song, and another for the guitar. Then basically if the guitar doesn't hit the right note mute that channel.

[VGTM]

Sonic 3D Blast would have been a good 32x port imo. The game was ported to every console that Sonic X-Treme was planned on... except the 32X

[kool kitty89]

My dream 32X CD game would be Garfield: Caught in the Act, ported back from the PC with the amazing audio and Alien Landscape level and even have some of the beta/lost levels resurrected. :D

Alas, I doubt that would ever happen... Nobody cares about this long forgotten Sega treasure... :( Maybe the fact that the PC version of CiTA is in a Windows Shell could better it's chances of being ported.
That would have been nice as an early Saturn game too . . .

I have that on PC (one of the Sega PC games we had back in the late 90s), though we ended up playing it without music (I think the analog audio wasn't connected on our PC's CD drive, either that or we weren't running the game with the CD in the drive -same issue with BUG!).

I recently got the Genesis version too. (I haven't finished either though . . . I don't think my brother has either -and he's much more of a 2D platform fan than I am)

[Da_Shocker]

How about Skunny Kart?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6klELb-H2o

[sheath]

Hopefully that framerate could be improved. Otherwise it looks like a great Mario Kart knock off.

[Da_Shocker]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_open_source_video_games

All of the games that would really run on the 32X are old 80's games that look like NES games. Everything else that may run on the 32X has bigger ram requirements.

[Sik]

All of the games that would really run on the 32X are old 80's games that look like NES games. Everything else that may run on the 32X has bigger ram requirements.
Beware that you can push a lot of the stuff into ROM. Comparing computer specs to console specs is pointless because the hardware is completely different. Computer games usually have higher requirements because they use different formats, some hardware support may be missing and also because the program itself needs to be loaded into RAM.

[kool kitty89]

How about Skunny Kart?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6klELb-H2o
Wacky Wheels would be a much better option. :p

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=153klG92_DA
153klG92_DA

Also the best adlib arrangements I've heard on any commercial PC game, and even without using samples. (a shame so few games had good FM synth drivers -and composers who knew how to make good use of FM . . . and even fewer used samples in music to complement FM -like many Genesis, x68000, and arcade games did)

DOSBox sounds a bit off, but there's real hardware recordings here:
http://www.youtube.com/user/Teppica#g/c/30C4FC2F42B84DD6


Wacky Wheels is really fun, both for the racing and combat. (combat is better than Super Mario Kart IMO -in part because of the hedgehogs ;))



Hopefully that framerate could be improved. Otherwise it looks like a great Mario Kart knock off.
The particular emulation/recording set-up there may limit things, but I know some games seem to have hard frame limits on them. (Wacky Wheels seems to be frame limited like that -it's pretty choppy on a Pentium 133, though there's no slowdown)
I suppose that's better than running way too fast on faster systems. ;) (like Wing Commander I and II on anything much beyond a 486-33, among other games)

Of course, since we're talking about a port to a system with fixed hardware, it would likely avoid that issue and allow the game to be modified for a faster mode. (I assume the issue with the DOS games was specifically catering to lower-end machines, but at least adding a frame-limiting feature to avoid speed issues on faster systems -but no actual higher quality or faster mode)

[kool kitty89]

Beware that you can push a lot of the stuff into ROM. Comparing computer specs to console specs is pointless because the hardware is completely different. Computer games usually have higher requirements because they use different formats, some hardware support may be missing and also because the program itself needs to be loaded into RAM.
A big factor for PC game requirements also is simply that developers can afford to cater to said requirements due to common/popular system configurations of the time (ie, by 1994, 4 MB of RAM, VGA/SVGA, and a mid-speed 486 was pretty well expected on an average/mid-range machine).

It also varies by game type, developer, etc. (developer decisions could include catering to lower-end systems and/or how tight/efficient the programming is)
X-Wing and Doom both came out in '93, and both had similar audio/video/processor performance requirements, but X-Wing only required 1 MB of RAM vs 4 MB for Doom. (and X-Wing also included Adlib SFX support -as an alternative to Soundblaster- while Doom only offered PC speaker as an alternative -X-Wing also supported the MT-32, but that's a separate issue ;) -note the 1994 CD re-release of X-Wing -as well as Tie Fighter on floppy- required 4 MB of RAM and a bit more CPU grunt to run at full detail -much more for Tie Fighter . . . )



But the whole ROM vs low-cost mass storage+RAM issue is a broader topic in general. (getting into ROM costs, ROM speeds, uncompressed vs compressed data, etc -and, of course, the trade-offs of initial overhead/investment for the disk/disc drive and added program RAM)

[Sik]

Wacky Wheels would be a much better option. :p
I'd rather prefer a game that doesn't force me to have my eyes constantly in the lower half of the screen because it has a horrible camera angle (so both of those games would suck for me - and yes, the original Mario Kart has this issue too).

Also I found out Abuse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abuse_(computer_game)) is public domain now (at least the shareware version), sound effects aside. Though maybe it'd feel overkill for the 32X (it's a 2D game, after all). Anyways, who'd want to give it a try? (would require a new way to aim though)

EDIT: Abuse gameplay (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeLdGtyuZ14).

[kool kitty89]

I'd rather prefer a game that doesn't force me to have my eyes constantly in the lower half of the screen because it has a horrible camera angle (so both of those games would suck for me - and yes, the original Mario Kart has this issue too).

Actually Mario Kart doesn't have that issue . . . instead, it uses only the upper half of the screen for the game window (with similar viewing angle) and the lower half filled with the map.

Street Racer on the SNES has the same problem though . . . though it makes a lot more sense in split-screen. (at least they extended the sky/BG for single player modes rather than filling 1/2 the screen with a map/status bar . . . PC Racers sort of took the latter route too, albeit with a less extreme status overlay and a sizable blank boarder)

I suppose that's one of the advantages of F-Zero being single player only. :p (though I'd personally much prefer the squashed PoV if it meant 2 player support . . . not that it should be unreasonable to support a wider field of vision for single player -especially for mode 7, where there isn't the same resource trade-off for rendering a larger ground area)

[Sik]

Actually Mario Kart doesn't have that issue . . . instead, it uses only the upper half of the screen for the game window (with similar viewing angle) and the lower half filled with the map.
I still need to keep the eyes on the lower half of the player area if I don't want to slam against every single wall - making the situation even worse since that's just 1/4 of the screen. Though at least I don't need to take my eyes out of the view area to look at the HUD...

[SCD32X]

It would have been really a great to see Quake and Duke 3D on the 32X with a lot of compromises ... even if this means buying a RAM Cart

[AlecRob]

A port of galaxy force II or power drift would be cool.

[STONEDSTONER]

Im surprised POWDER hasnt been ported to even just genesis

Its a simple fun Roguelike game

http://www.zincland.com/powder/index.php?pagename=about

http://www.zincland.com/powder/screenshot/roomofmonsters.png

[matteus]

When I first got my MegaMouse, I thought the same thing. I even went to the scummvm web page and looked over the code. It'll take some work, so I decided to put it off. At least until after I've got a good working CD32X base running.

Chilly is that base good enough yet? ;)

[Chilly Willy]

Chilly is that base good enough yet? ;)

Yeah, I think so... I got that CD32X MOD player working. There are some more issues to work out, but I can do that while working on an actual game. What was it you wanted to see done again?

[matteus]

Yeah, I think so... I got that CD32X MOD player working. There are some more issues to work out, but I can do that while working on an actual game. What was it you wanted to see done again?

Well scummvm was spoken about many moons ago back in 2009 :) wondered if you were up to the challenge :)

[Chilly Willy]

Well scummvm was spoken about many moons ago back in 2009 :) wondered if you were up to the challenge :)

Right. I'm fairly certain there's not nearly enough ram for that. I'll check into it, but it barely squeazes in on the N64 in 4MB of ram.

[matteus]

Right. I'm fairly certain there's not nearly enough ram for that. I'll check into it, but it barely squeazes in on the N64 in 4MB of ram.

Wow yeah :/ not nearly enough ram from what you've mentioned in other threads but I look forward to hearing what you've got to say about it :)

[AlecRob]

Somebody should make panzer dragoon on 32X.

[matteus]

Somebody should make panzer dragoon on 32X.

Someone is taking the pee and needs to read the rest of this thread. . .

[cleeg]

Not sure if this is elsewhere on the thread, but what about Menacer games? Something a bit like Virtua Cop, or T2 Arcade (a good version)? Alien 3 the gun was pretty good if I remember, something along those lines?

I don't mean ports, just using these games as examples.

[matteus]

I still think they could have done virtua cop on Sega cd :) fmv with layered sprites based on polygon characters

[Drakon]

T2 the arcade game arcade perfect port would be awesome.

[Da_Shocker]

To hell with ports with kickstarter we should get original games. 4 player beat em up would be awesome with 96 megapower.

[matteus]

To hell with ports with kickstarter we should get original games. 4 player beat em up would be awesome with 96 megapower.

What like the magical game factory 40meg one that's potentially going to have 4 player mode? ;)

[David J.]

What about cave story? It was ported to everything else... not talking about the Plus edition or the later 3d version but I think there was a source port, NXengine?

[Vector]

Super Street Fighter II Turbo was on CPS2. If it was going to be 32X/CD, might as well have a full CD-quality remix to go with it instead of wasting your time doing a conversion that will undoubtedly be inferior to MAME.

I agree, I was mad when SSF2T was never released on 32x/32xcd back in the day. Can this be ported over from DOS maybe like Wolfenstein was ported to 32x recently ? I love playing Wolfenstein on my everdrive cart on hardware console. A 32 x CD of Super Street Fighter 2 TURBO with SF2 HD remix music would be awesome. Can anyone do this ? Maybe I should contact guy who made the Wolfenstein 32x rom to do it ?

[Da_Shocker]

I agree, I was mad when SSF2T was never released on 32x/32xcd back in the day. Can this be ported over from DOS maybe like Wolfenstein was ported to 32x recently ? I love playing Wolfenstein on my everdrive cart on hardware console. A 32 x CD of Super Street Fighter 2 TURBO with SF2 HD remix music would be awesome. Can anyone do this ? Maybe I should contact guy who made the Wolfenstein 32x rom to do it ?

His name is chilly willy actually and he is posting on here right now.

[Vector]

His name is chilly willy actually and he is posting on here right now.

Ok thank you. I figured that out right after I posted that though :

http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?6690-Wolf32X-finally-in-beta!/page43

[Vector]

Somebody should take 32 x to it's full potential @ 2:35 of this video, it actually looked like a Panzer Dragoon scene (without character). Check it out :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K198Axbo4RY

[Chilly Willy]

Somebody should take 32 x to it's full potential @ 2:35 of this video, it actually looked like a Panzer Dragoon scene (without character). Check it out :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K198Axbo4RY

Yeah, it's too bad the code to that demo never got released. But it does demonstrate that a form of Panzer Dragoon could have been done... not as nice or fast as the Saturn, but decent enough.

[kool kitty89]

Yeah, it's too bad the code to that demo never got released. But it does demonstrate that a form of Panzer Dragoon could have been done... not as nice or fast as the Saturn, but decent enough.
Actually, the model detail in that demo seems to be a fair bit higher than Saturn Panzer Dragoon (1), granted that doesn't necessarily say anything about the actual polygons/second performance. (that's also a matter of draw distance and framerate)

That and that part of the demo is also using features many Saturn games lacked . . . the distance fog is smoother than the typical lighting/shading effect used on the Saturn (or even many PSX games) and it's also all gouruad shaded lit texture mapped polygons too. (and I assume that it's using a form of multiplicative lighting or approximation of that via LUTs, in any case generally better for lighting than the additive/subtractive technique employed on the Saturn -which is a lot better than nothing and a hell of a lot faster than doing it in software, but doesn't work like proper lighting, hence the overly dark and/or washed out low-contrast look of Tomb Raider and some others -note the Jaguar technically used additive/subtractive shading for lighting as well on the blitter end, but the CRY colorspace itself was organized with linear muliplicative lighting achieved by additive manipulation of the intensity byte)

[sheath]

All of the floors in the Saturn Panzer Dragoon games are 2D VDP-2 layers, so technically any polygons at all is more polygons than the Saturn versions. ;)

[kool kitty89]

All of the floors in the Saturn Panzer Dragoon games are 2D VDP-2 layers, so technically any polygons at all is more polygons than the Saturn versions. ;)
Since that same effect could be done with a handful of polygons (or just use a scaled/rotated object with per-line scaling for perspective -Mode 7 style), that's not an issue either really since fillrate would be the limiting issue for such large areas on-screen. :p

Anyway, I was thinking more in terms of the sections on Panzer Dragoon with large enclosed areas, like caves. (where there's a lot more than just the ground on-screen)

And in any case, with a game being 100% software rendered, there's interesting alternatives to using polygons for terrain anyway. Voxels are really interesting, of course, and it's also good to note that Phase Zero on the Jaguar took only 2 MB of ROM. (granted, that's probably a lot of compressed stuff too -given the Jag's 2 MB- but still it's notable)

[sheath]

Ezra Dreisbach's interview indicates that Saturn quads can't be stretched like a normal polygon could, or at least like polygons could on the PS1 or 3D accelerated PC cards could. I am still not sure what he meant there, but I guess the 32X wouldn't really have that limitation either.

I would have killed for a bunch of voxel engine 32X games, much less a Panzer Dragoon game that looked anything like the Saturn games.

[Chilly Willy]

I would have killed for a bunch of voxel engine 32X games, much less a Panzer Dragoon game that looked anything like the Saturn games.

Yep. And maybe a texture mapped race game. VRD was an excellent launch title, but a second gen racer (which we never got :( ) would have needed to be texture mapped, or a mix of flat and textured where applicable.

[Vector]

Awesome convo guys I learned a lot. Isn't the 32 x just the USA cart based Saturn anyway basically or part of the Saturn that was supposed to play carts ? Sorry I don't have much knowledge on Jupiter/Mars but I think that became the 32 x, the Neptune was just a Genesis 2 + 32 x only in prototype form, Saturn was supposed to be both cart and cd then either or, Saturn 2 / Lockhead Martin 3d console never released. But about Saturn :

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh68/mick_aka/saturnproto.jpg

Just in case people didn't watch the 32 x demo video but see our convo, they can see what we mean. The mountain walls, fog and sun in background look amazing :

http://i45.tinypic.com/330zii0.jpg

[Chilly Willy]

Awesome convo guys I learned a lot. Isn't the 32 x just the USA cart based Saturn anyway basically or part of the Saturn that was supposed to play carts ? Sorry I don't have much knowledge on Jupiter/Mars but I think that became the 32 x, the Neptune was just a Genesis 2 + 32 x only in prototype form, Saturn was supposed to be both cart and cd then either or, Saturn 2 / Lockhead Martin 3d console never released. But about Saturn :

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh68/mick_aka/saturnproto.jpg

No, the 32X is nothing like the Saturn beyond having two SH2 processors. That cart slot in the Saturn pic has been shopped to look like a 32X/MD cart. An actual Saturn cart slot doesn't look like that at all and is completely incompatible with 32X/MD carts.