Will a Retro Duo look better with NES games than an NES?

[the.importer]

I was just wondering since a Retro Duo uses newer hardware compared to an NES, if the picture quality will be better.


Thanks


EDIT: Crap, wrong forum, can someone move this?

[Jesse813]

Nope. the colors seem a little off. besides that theres a few games it has issues with: Bubble Bobble & Paperboy (they start up aren't compatible w/ the controller), Dragon Warrior (just gets a black screen), theres more but I can't think of them so I listed the ones i have.

[the.importer]

Nope. the colors seem a little off. besides that theres a few games it has issues with: Bubble Bobble & Paperboy (they start up aren't compatible w/ the controller), Dragon Warrior (just gets a black screen), theres more but I can't think of them so I listed the ones i have.

But do you get garbage on the screen and vertical lines like with the NES, do you still get these with a Retro Duo?

As for compatibility, I haven't seen any incompatibility list with the games I have.

[GohanX]

I don't have a Retroduo, but I've got one of Yobo's NES clones and pretty much all clones use the same "NES on a chip" hardware.

The video out (to me) seems pretty much the same as an original NES using RCA outputs, and naturally better than RF output. I'm not sure what garbage you mean, the only garbage the NES had was either due to RF interference from the RF switch, or issues with a worn or dirty cart connector causing garbage information or text on the screen, which could be fixed.

That being said, the video is good for composite, and NES doesn't need a component mod or anything. The sound is a little different (not necessarily worse) and the one glaring incompatibility is that it doesn't work with Castlevania 3.

[ooXxXoo]

But do you get garbage on the screen and vertical lines like with the NES, do you still get these with a Retro Duo?

As for compatibility, I haven't seen any incompatibility list with the games I have.

The video quality and colors are a bit washed off compared to an original NES (to hide some of the NOAC vertical lines, it can be adjusted with abit of modding), the Audio is scratchy, and some sort of nasty video noise has been reported in some units....I personally have repaired 2 Retro Duo Units in the past, one had the internal ribbon cables completely loose, and the other one had a blown diode, both unit were brand new and taken directly from sealed boxes (factory defective)....The compatibility is quite good though.....
....

[the.importer]

The video quality and colors are a bit washed off compared to an original NES (to hide some of the NOAC vertical lines, it can be adjusted with abit of modding), the Audio is scratchy, and some sort of nasty video noise has been reported in some units....I personally have repaired 2 Retro Duo Units in the past, one had the internal ribbon cables completely loose, and the other one had a blown diode, both unit were brand new and taken directly from sealed boxes (factory defective)....The compatibility is quite good though.....
....

Are you saying that an original NES can be modded to remove the vertical lines? Would that work with an NES 2 which has already been modded for AV-out?

BTW, you guys shouldn't confuse the Retro Duo with the FC Twin. The Retro Duo will play Castlevania 3, Mario RPG and StarFox, there's plenty of YouTube videos proving this.

[ooXxXoo]

Yeap, I was entirely talking about the Retro Duo...Which is so much better than the Yobo FC twin when it comes to compatibility....

If the NES 2 AV mod is done correctly, those lines should disappear...

[Beastech]

Actually, the Retro Duo WILL play Castlevania 3. So will the FC Mobile 2. I don't know of any others that do though.

[the.importer]

Yeap, I was entirely talking about the Retro Duo...Which is so much better than the Yobo FC twin when it comes to compatibility....

If the NES 2 AV mod is done correctly, those lines should disappear...

Those same lines were there with the RF-Switch, I doubt that Nintendo would have messed it up themselves.

[ooXxXoo]

Those same lines were there with the RF-Switch, I doubt that Nintendo would have messed it up themselves.

Well, those vertical lines (video noise) in a NES2 Top loader for example, are caused to the PPU (in which the video output pin is also relatively close to the addresses pins) by the Master Clock signal (xtal) as I have found out. Mostly consisting in a badly designed motherboard layout, and yes by Nintendo...I have managed to built an amp which acts as a filter around this area, sort of like the one that the AV famicom has, which this one, doesn't have the vertical lines issue...

EDIT:Also, not only the Top Loader has this problem, the Famicom does too...This is the reason NOACS have the vertical lines effect, because they are taken and replicated mainly from a Famicom...Long story indeed...
..

[the.importer]

Well, those vertical lines (video noise) in a NES2 Top loader for example, are caused to the PPU (in which the video output pin is also relatively close to the addresses pins) by the Master Clock signal (xtal) as I have found out. Mostly consisting in a badly designed motherboard layout, and yes by Nintendo...I have managed to built an amp which acts as a filter around this area, sort of like the one that the AV famicom has, which this one, doesn't have the vertical lines issue...

Hmm, I thought I read that the AV Famicom had the same vertical lines issue.

[ooXxXoo]

Hmm, I thought I read that the AV Famicom had the same vertical lines issue.
If you don't have one and are able to afford it, get one, you'll notice the difference...

[johj1987]

is it illegal to have retro duo system because the snes patent hasnt expire it does play snes games.

[the.importer]

If you don't have one and are able to afford it, get one, you'll notice the difference...

Buying one is not the problem, my problem is that I don't have room for another console (physically and connection wise) and getting a 72 to 60 pins converter is not as easy to come by as it is with the reverted one.


is it illegal to have retro duo system because the snes patent hasnt expire

I don't think even Nintendo cares.

[ooXxXoo]

getting a 72 to 60 pins converter is not as easy to come by as it is with the reverted one.





Yeap, I totally agree on this one...I remember when they were around $5 bucks each a few years back...I got some, but I wish I had picked around 10-15 when I had the chance :bang:
...
..

[Ace]

There are numerous issues with the RetroDuo:

-Washed out NES Composite
-Slightly washed out and blurry Super NES Composite
-HORRIBLE NES S-Video(plays like an NES via a bad RF box)
-INCREDIBLY DARK Super NES S-Video
-MASSIVE interference(you get lines on the NES side that are in sync with music, and you can see 2 strips of static rolling down the screen on the Super NES side)
-ABSOLUTELY MURDERED NES audio

Most of these issues can be fixed:

-Washed out NES Composite(replace a resistor on the NES video amp with a higher value)
-Slightly washed out and blurry Super NES Composite(disconnect the Composite output from the KA2198BD video encoder and put a 75ohm resistor in series with a 470uF capacitor between the Composite pin and the Composite plug)
-HORRIBLE NES S-Video(I haven't managed to fix this just yet, but it works in conjunction with the NES sound)
-INCREDIBLY DARK Super NES S-Video(remove the Chroma and Luminance pins on the KA2198BD and do the same as with Composite, just on the S-Video plug's Chroma/Luminance solder spots
-MASSIVE interference(I haven't fully eliminated the interference just yet, but read the next note)
-ABSOLUTELY MURDERED NES audio(add a 0.1uF capacitor between the NES sound output from the NOAC and Ground, and add a 2.2Kohm resistor between the Base and Collector pins on one of the transistors in the NES sound amp)

Don't get me wrong: the RetroDuo's awesome, but in order to make it awesome, you have to mod it. Otherwise, it's quite bad.

[Metalwario64]

ABSOLUTELY MURDERED NES audio
I can attest to this; the audio was so bad, that sometimes it sounded literally like silent, hissing static. If you can't solder, then I would say to stay as far away as you can form this clone.

Another clone to avoid would be the FC Twin if you like multiplayer games, as when both controllers have the same buttons pressed, it registers as the start button unless you use the stock controllers, which suck, have a short cord and break easily. If you like NES game soundtracks, then stay away from the Retro Entertainment System, as it frequently misses notes and the sound is very, very raw and harsh as opposed to the NES' softer, smoother audio output; Protoman's whistle made my ears bleed...

I ended up giving my Retro Duo to a friend, and bought a refurbished, PIN connector replaced NES at a local game store for $50 (steep I know) and got a free SNES that my sister found at her dad's place.

Because I got the SNES for free the $50 kind of evens out, especially since that's the typical cost of the Retro Duo, and I can finally enjoy all of my games again without fearing of going deaf or blind.

[kool kitty89]

Is the S-Video really s-video, or just composite hooked to the Y/C S-video pins? (like those cheap comp=>s-video adaptors and some 3rd party Nintendo multi av s-video cables)
With the characteristic "checkerboard" noise.

[Metalwario64]

Is the S-Video really s-video, or just composite hooked to the Y/C S-video pins? (like those cheap comp=>s-video adaptors and some 3rd party Nintendo multi av s-video cables)
With the characteristic "checkerboard" noise.
I am not sure, but it does look very blurry with S-Video.

[ooXxXoo]

Is the S-Video really s-video, or just composite hooked to the Y/C S-video pins? (like those cheap comp=>s-video adaptors and some 3rd party Nintendo multi av s-video cables)
With the characteristic "checkerboard" noise.

Is truly s-video from the Samsung KA2198BD RGB encoder (Yes you can even tap RGB from it, but only for the SNES Side).....But is badly encoded on the Retro Duo s-video output....And @Ace, the S-video is only meant for the SNES side ,Although NES washed composite video runs through the s-video connector (NES checkered effect) because of the badly mixing....

[the.importer]

Well, those vertical lines (video noise) in a NES2 Top loader for example, are caused to the PPU (in which the video output pin is also relatively close to the addresses pins) by the Master Clock signal (xtal) as I have found out. Mostly consisting in a badly designed motherboard layout, and yes by Nintendo...I have managed to built an amp which acts as a filter around this area, sort of like the one that the AV famicom has, which this one, doesn't have the vertical lines issue...

EDIT:Also, not only the Top Loader has this problem, the Famicom does too...This is the reason NOACS have the vertical lines effect, because they are taken and replicated mainly from a Famicom...Long story indeed...
..

Getting back on this, my friend who modded my NES 2 with AV-Out might be able to remove my vertical line issue if he were to build his own Amp. Anything special regarding this Amp (trade secret) or is it something he can make with spare parts?

[kool kitty89]

Is truly s-video from the Samsung KA2198BD RGB encoder (Yes you can even tap RGB from it, but only for the SNES Side).....But is badly encoded on the Retro Duo s-video output....And @Ace, the S-video is only meant for the SNES side ,Although NES washed composite video runs through the s-video connector (NES checkered effect) because of the badly mixing....

The real NES PPU natively outputs only composite, right? (with playchoice machines using a modified PPU that outputs RGB -or a transcoder?)


And does the retroduo have the same problem with sound (flipped pulse wave duty cycles) as other NOACs that causes weird pitched sounds?

[ooXxXoo]

The real NES PPU natively outputs only composite, right? (with playchoice machines using a modified PPU that outputs RGB -or a transcoder?)


And does the retroduo have the same problem with sound (flipped pulse wave duty cycles) as other NOACs that causes weird pitched sounds?

Yes, same Audio problem...And the native NES PPU only does composite sadly...The PC-10 has the RGB PPU where the signals are mixed via some variable pots and transistors....A couple of years ago, while driving around my neighborhood, I stumble across a broken arcade cabinet (ready for the dump) in someone's front yard...As I parked near by and got close to it, Jackpot!...It was a broken play choice-10, got the main motherboard (and the RGB PPU with it)...
...

[Ace]

No, the RetroDuo does not suffer from the reversed Square wave duties from most NOACs. The only audio problem it has is the overloaded audio output due to the missing resistor and capacitor.

Doesn't the NES PPU mix Chroma/Luminance within the chip before outputting it as Composite?


Although NES washed composite video runs through the s-video connector (NES checkered effect) because of the badly mixing....

So you're saying that the source of the nasty video interference is the NES' Composite output being put into the S-Video jack? *opens RetroDuo and removes NES S-Video to check*

EDIT: Well it does seem to be part of the problem, but the strips of static are still there. Did you manage to completely eliminate them? If so, how?

[jamesdude]

Id suggest getting a Hyperkin NES. The graphics will be the same but the music will sound slighty diffrent.

[Ace]

Man, screw that! There's the RetroBit Retro Entertainment System for a good NES-only clone(gets the sound right, unlike the Hyperkin FC Super Loader). Or better yet: the Hyperkin FC Mobile II. Can be used on the go or at home with a power supply and wireless controllers.

[ooXxXoo]

I do remember having that interfering noise that you are talking about Ace...It seem like some sort of ground loop, ...I did alot of modding to my RetroDuo (but gave it away to a good friend of mine a while ago)...After splitting a whole bunch of signals and adding the ceramic cap, the problem finally was isolated.....
...
...

[Ace]

Damn it... do you at least remember what was the source of the Ground loop? Did it come from the NES or Super NES board?

[the.importer]

Well I went headed and bought a Retro Duo at my local Flee Market and although I wouldn't use this for my SFC games, it works great on my LCD TV with my NES and FC games.

Positives:

+No Vertical Lines like the NES 2

+All my NES and FC games worked (which means that 60 to 72 pins converters work)

+You can use both SNES and SFC games in there (don't care personally)

+Although some are different, I find the colors to be better than on my NES 2

+It's great that I can use my SFC controllers on this. The makers of this thing were even smart enough to make it that 8bit games would have the same Jump and Attack buttons as the 16bit games (B = Jump Y = Attack)

+I can even use my SNES Power Plug on it.

+It's nice to be able to use universal AV cables because I was able to hook this system using those expensive shielded cables

+Comes with a smaller AC, so less room on your power bar

Negative

-The sound is not perfect for all games (but they're 8bit games, so the sound wasn't great to begin with)

-It's just too bad that my PS2 to SNES converter doesn't work in 8bit mode cause now I can't use my PS2 HORI Stick (my NES Advantage won't work with that system either because there's no NES plug)

-Kirby SuperStar and Kirby's Dream Land 3 won't run (again, I don't care, I have a SuperFamicom for those 16bit games)

-The final negative point is that you'll probably need an extension cord for the AC adapter since it's pretty damn small


So in conclusion, it's nice to know there's a better Top Loading NES out there than Nintendo's and like all Top Loaders, you don't need to worry about the pins being crushed down.

[kool kitty89]

-The final negative point is that you'll probably need an extension cord for the AC adapter since it's pretty damn small

That isn't that much of a detriment though, hell, using an extension cord basicly adds a "dongle" so will fit much better into a power strip or outlet. (I prefer the standard 2-prong houshold extension cords for most stuff, with 3 outlets on the end -usually only good for 2 power bricks though, except for some smaller bricks or with some odd/doler extension cords with the third outlet on the end of cord/splitter rather than having 2 on one side)

[the.importer]

That isn't that much of a detriment though, hell, using an extension cord basicly adds a "dongle" so will fit much better into a power strip or outlet. (I prefer the standard 2-prong houshold extension cords for most stuff, with 3 outlets on the end -usually only good for 2 power bricks though, except for some smaller bricks or with some odd/doler extension cords with the third outlet on the end of cord/splitter rather than having 2 on one side)

I was nitpicking because there wasn't enough negatives to balance out the positives :p

[subcreep]

My retro duo is running great, but I have vertical lines on the nes side.
Any help would be great. I did the sound mod which worked wonders, but I am still stuck with these darn vertical lines.

[subcreep]

Well I went headed and bought a Retro Duo at my local Flee Market and although I wouldn't use this for my SFC games, it works great on my LCD TV with my NES and FC games.

Positives:

+No Vertical Lines like the NES 2

+All my NES and FC games worked (which means that 60 to 72 pins converters work)

+You can use both SNES and SFC games in there (don't care personally)

+Although some are different, I find the colors to be better than on my NES 2

+It's great that I can use my SFC controllers on this. The makers of this thing were even smart enough to make it that 8bit games would have the same Jump and Attack buttons as the 16bit games (B = Jump Y = Attack)

+I can even use my SNES Power Plug on it.

+It's nice to be able to use universal AV cables because I was able to hook this system using those expensive shielded cables

+Comes with a smaller AC, so less room on your power bar

Negative

-The sound is not perfect for all games (but they're 8bit games, so the sound wasn't great to begin with)

-It's just too bad that my PS2 to SNES converter doesn't work in 8bit mode cause now I can't use my PS2 HORI Stick (my NES Advantage won't work with that system either because there's no NES plug)

-Kirby SuperStar and Kirby's Dream Land 3 won't run (again, I don't care, I have a SuperFamicom for those 16bit games)

-The final negative point is that you'll probably need an extension cord for the AC adapter since it's pretty damn small


So in conclusion, it's nice to know there's a better Top Loading NES out there than Nintendo's and like all Top Loaders, you don't need to worry about the pins being crushed down.

Do you know which version of the duo you have. You say your nes side has no vertical line problem. My duo is version 2 and I have the vertical lines.
Would be able to show a close up picture of the duo boards so I could compare them and and make the needed changes.

[OldSchool]

But do you get garbage on the screen and vertical lines like with the NES, do you still get these with a Retro Duo?

As for compatibility, I haven't seen any incompatibility list with the games I have.

That's only with RF, partner. Composite looks clean as can be.


fyi

[snotmaw]

I have a retro duo, and I have to say the NES port on mine is crap. The audio and video is all fucked up. The SNES port on the other hand works pretty well for some reason. Overall it doesn't compare to real hardware though

[Vyse of Arcadia]

port

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

[streetsofrage]

i dont get it why buy a clone , when u could pick up a nes system for nothing

[GohanX]

Unless you're lucky and find it in a flea market or something, real NES's can be fairly expensive. I spent more cash on parts to repair my toaster NES than most clones entire cost.

[Ace]

I just buy clones to test 'em out(unless they're as shitty as AtGames' clones - I would NEVER give AtGames my money. If I would get their hardware to see in person just how nasty their products are, I'd get the systems used so that AtGames doesn't get a penny from me). I have enough real NESes to make Famiclones completely useless for me(3 Front-Loaders, 1 Top-Loader), but since I've followed the evolution of Famiclones since they became legal in 2005, it's always interesting for me to get Famiclones and throw everything I've got at them, then compare that with a real NES and study the hardware, come up with possible mods(like I've done with the Hyperkin RetroN3), etc. I'm interested in knowing what Famiclones have to offer in compatibility, accuracy and what's used to make the entire console tick.

Although I would support portable Famiclones because Nintendo never made a portable NES or Super NES and destroying a perfectly working NES or Super NES to make a portable is, to me, a sin. You should NEVER destroy original hardware to turn it into something else. I understand modding the console, but to completely gut the console, cut the motherboard down, etc. means one less authentic Super NES for people to purchase. Besides, original hardware is meant to be preserved, especially since they're no longer in production. Famiclones are readily available, so if one fails or gets destroyed for other purposes, it's no big deal because they're still in production. It's a bigger deal if you destroy the original hardware, on the other hand.

[Obviously]

I like famiclones, if it wasn't for clones I would have never started collecting NES games again since I sold off all my original NES stuff. I saw the Yobo FC for ten bucks in an indie music/music/game shop along with a copy of Metroid with the cool yellow label and thought what the heck.

I've really enjoyed the little machine. Castlevania III's incompatibility has been my only problem with it so far. Sound is not as big an issue for me with the NES games as it is with Genesis and SNES.

[OldSchool]

Unless you're lucky and find it in a flea market or something, real NES's can be fairly expensive. I spent more cash on parts to repair my toaster NES than most clones entire cost.

What's $40-50 for a system that someone has taken apart, replaced the 72pin connector, and cleaned the insides out?

It's worth it.