8-bit sound chips

[Thenewguy]

Technically what's the agreed upon order for the 8-bit sound chips? I was sitting here wondering more specifically about Master System Vs Spectrum 128, seeing as it already seems agreed on that capability wise C64 is #1 and NES is #2

Also I thought I'd make it a poll for general preferences (after all they all sound different so any choice for best is reasonable irrespective of actual capabilities)

For me I would have to say C64 is my favourite 8-bit sound chip, though the NES has a pretty awesomely nostalgic sound to it as well

C64 = Electric Guitar
NES = Harmonica

[TmEE]

technically speaking, the YM2612 is 8bit too in MD, aswell as all other FM chips used in a ton of arcade machines and computers :P

[Thenewguy]

technically speaking, the YM2612 is 8bit too in MD, aswell as all other FM chips used in a ton of arcade machines and computers :P

To clarify, best sound chip used in an 8-bit home console or computer that was released during the 2nd or 3rd generation of gaming

[TmEE]

I'm going to say SID from that list. Too bad there's way too many phone ringing sounds simulated on it :P

[fatboy]

The sid chip, of course! No 8-bitter out there could do electric guitar quite like the sid, just to name one. In the hands of a competent composer, or even an amateur, this chip could do anything.
Of course I'm a bit biased, I was raised on the C64, and My SX-64 is not more then a few feet away from Me as I write this

[Christuserloeser]

I love the NES sound chip.

[evildragon]

SID! I got the high voltage SID collection. I even have my C64, but no disk drive or cartridge= no play time.

[GeckoYamori]

The SID only had 3 channels but it was far outweighed by all the other stuff it could do. Each channel was fully customizable with several waveforms to choose from in addition to filters which none of the others had. Skilled sound programmers could easily fit drums and bass into the same sounds to make up for the lack of channels.
But most of all it had the benefit of being on an open computer and the culture/exchange of ideas that came with it. Anyone with a C64 could start making their own music, and people met at these large gatherings where they would share cool tricks and techniques they learned to get more out of the chip.

[Thenewguy]

No love for the beeper?!?!

It does a mean "in the hall of the mountain king"



Also, still no word on Texas Instruments Vs AY-3-8910 sound chips? are they basically the same thing capabilities wise?

[tomaitheous]

NES all the way, baby. Though SID has some nice stuff too.

There are too many SID tracks are made just for music (have no care on cpu resource). Which a lot of people don't realize. NES original tracks are starting to get like that too, though. People here NSF's and think OMG! But what do you expect when you have like 16+ channels and 4-5 addon chips in a NSF. Or a tracker that's 100% dedicated to sound generation and not practical in game cpu resource. It's deceiving. I could totally do the same thing on PCE and give it 100% cpu resource to do FM or AM modulation on a bunch of soft mixed channels to a 10bit DAC and still have 4 regular channels to manipulate at high frequencies. Might sound real nice, but not practical or realistic. But a general audience wouldn't be the wiser.

[roundwars]

Also, still no word on Texas Instruments Vs AY-3-8910 sound chips? are they basically the same thing capabilities wise?

The AY has a wider pitch range and a more precise pitch selection, and a hardware volume envelope (only one envelope, but any channel or combination of channels can use it). The AY only has three channels compared to four on the SN (three square waves plus one white noise), but each channel on the AY is capable of producing square waves, white noise, or a mix of the two. The AY is rather flexible, and is actually quite a powerful sound chip when used in certain ways. The SN is probably the most boring and basic sound chip ever created.

[tomaitheous]

The SN is probably the most boring and basic sound chip ever created.

QFT

[Dant]

What? No love for the Adlib, MT-32, or original Sound Blaster?

My top 5:

1: SID
2: Adlib
3: Master System's YM2413
4: AY
5: NES's sound system

Also Manic Miner's rendition of Halls of the Mountain King literally feels like getting humped in the ear on my headphones... it sounds much better on speakers.

[Thenewguy]

The SN is probably the most boring and basic sound chip ever created.

The Spectrum Beeper is glad to hear that, take that Master System!



#Spectrum starts beeping out Hall of the Mountain King in celebration

doodoodoodoo doodoodoo doodoodoo doodoodoo

[kool kitty89]

The AY has a wider pitch range and a more precise pitch selection, and a hardware volume envelope (only one envelope, but any channel or combination of channels can use it). The AY only has three channels compared to four on the SN (three square waves plus one white noise), but each channel on the AY is capable of producing square waves, white noise, or a mix of the two. The AY is rather flexible, and is actually quite a powerful sound chip when used in certain ways. The SN is probably the most boring and basic sound chip ever created.

I really wonder why the AY chip (and yamaha clone) weren't applied to several cases the SN76489 was.
With the CV it made some sense to get both the PSG and VDP from TI and the 2 had been part of the same original chipset.
The SG-1000 may have been a pretty close CV clone, but the MSX was in the works too so should have been a consideration: plus the 8-bit I/O ports should have been useful.

Same with the PC Jr and Tandy 1000, but maybe there was some other deal
involved with TI and IBM. (again, 8-bit parallel ports -or port in the 28 pin version could have been useful -at least if they meshed with the chipset and given applications in other system it would seem the case -unlike several chips meant for interfacing with the 680x/650x CPUs)

Hell, I'm a bit surprised it wasn't used on PC sound cards before the OPL2 got popular. (either AY or SN for that matter -if a gameport was added the I/O ports might be of utility, though the standard point only needed 4 parallel lines... unless some 3rd party decided to go with the broader DE-9 Atari/Commodore/Sega/Coleco/etc type joystick ports with the standard digital joystick pinouts -maybe routing analog lines too, like the Atari and PC gameports or added more digital lines like Sega/Amiga/ST they could have used all 8 data lines per joyport --and given the commonality it might have surpassed the IBM gameport which was barely in use until the late 80s anyway -and software polling of pots was CPU intensive)

There are too many SID tracks are made just for music (have no care on cpu resource). Which a lot of people don't realize. NES original tracks are starting to get like that too, though. People here NSF's and think OMG! But what do you expect when you have like 16+ channels and 4-5 addon chips in a NSF. Or a tracker that's 100% dedicated to sound generation and not practical in game cpu resource. It's deceiving. I could totally do the same thing on PCE and give it 100% cpu resource to do FM or AM modulation on a bunch of soft mixed channels to a 10bit DAC and still have 4 regular channels to manipulate at high frequencies. Might sound real nice, but not practical or realistic. But a general audience wouldn't be the wiser.

Doesn't the SID have a relatively limited frequency range too, or at least limited maximum frequency? (4 kHz iirc) How do the others compare in that respect? (POKEY, NES, AY/YM2149 -I know SN is limited in range compared to others)

One thing about software channels and sample playback with CPU resource is how well it can be done in-game with limited resources and not just for demos/title screens:
Stormlord on the C64 has a mod player in the intro (with some analog synth too -ST version is all soft mod), but it also has a fair bit of samples in the in-game music.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WH6cYCXZBs


Now what could be a consideration is what chips allow good sample playback with minimal resources:
NES has the 7-bit DPCM support
AY/SN chips tend to be best using 3 square channels (AY with more range) both require costomized samples and a lot of resource. (perhaps less if interval timers are available)
SID had a couple hacks for playing PCM (again external timers might help, not sure if the C64 had that set-up)

POKEY had 4 4-bit DACs as well as built-in interval timer functionality and an IRQ line, so a bit like the YM2612 had potential for: timed IRQ with 4-bit linear PCM.

What? No love for the Adlib, MT-32, or original Sound Blaster?

My top 5:

1: SID
2: Adlib
3: Master System's YM2413
4: AY
5: NES's sound system

Also Manic Miner's rendition of Halls of the Mountain King literally feels like getting humped in the ear on my headphones... it sounds much better on speakers.

The point was chips used 8-bit home platforms, IMB PC was never 8-bit (unless you argue 8088), hence Atari ST not mentioned with AY.

But the YM2413 should certainly be mentioned, as should any other add-on used for the MSX (which I think included the OPL and some others).

Also, there's other 8-bit home computers to consider like the FM-7 and PC-8800 series.

The latter went from a beeper (maybe YM2149 at some point, but it's mot mentioned -Super Mario special uses SSG only so it could be), then to the YM2203 in 1985 (3 SSG of the AY/YM2149 plus 3 4-op FM like the YM2612 in the same OPN family), then it got the very impressive YM2608 with SSG+6 4-op FM channel+ 6 rhythm/percussion voices+ one ADPCM with 2-16 kHz sample rate. (not sure if it's mono or has hard panning like the YM2612 DAC)

The YM2608 is by far the winner in sheer capabilities from everything else on the list so far.


It's a bit of a shame that Atari Corp never upgraded the YM2149 to a YM2203, same 40 PIN DIP size chip and fully compatible with the YM2149, though it requires a small external DAC chip. (YM2608 has full compatibility too, but would have been rather expensive -especially since Yamanha's ADPCM implementations tended to be a bit costly to use -requiring SRAM for sample memory iirc).