Discuss alternate realities here!

[TVC 15]

I didn't vote for any of the above reality options as i feel and think there should be another option. My reality would of been no invention of Sega CD and no invention of 32x with all that time and money spent investing and pushing the MD and developing games for it. And then a better designed Saturn with one CPU (would a 40mhz SH2 with 8kb on chip cache have been competitive overall with Sonys mips cpu?) and one GPU or VDP (mabee working with SGI to improve their design that Sega turned down twice) and a more unified ram setup. Also adding hardware audio & video compression to the systems abilities and having excellent SDK'S. And finally having the system backward compatible with MD/GEN via the cartridge slot at the back and having a seperate slot for memory card/s. Perhaps an early 95 Jap launch and a Nov/Dec US & Europe launch and price it the same as Sony's machine. Then once out pester, beg, plead and throw money at Squaresoft to get them to agree on Saturn exclusivity. And i don't think they needed a Sonic game as the PS sold on the basis of its strong 3rd party support. A Sonic game alone wouldn't of sold the Saturn in the way the PS sold no matter how good it was.

Sega's reputation would of been probably the strongest in most of the world come the 32bit gen due to the MD gaining considerable market share and popularity coupled with the fact that they wouldn't of buggered up with 2 hardware failures and due to their Saturn being excellently designed like the PS so that anyone could work on it plus the fact that Nintendo dissappointed people by going with cartridges and for those reasons i think they could of got the exclusivity deals they needed to sell hugely in the 32 bit gen particularly Core Design and TR and many of the other good selling PS games would of appeared on Saturn. Then come the 128 bit gen due to the Saturn selling way more than in the real reality (i predict at least 50m units compared to this reality's 9.5m) and Sega having the best brand name in the gaming world and thus being financially waaaaaaaay better of due to the money they made in the 32 bit gen they could of launched a more powerful but just as easy to work on Dreamcast at the beginning of 2001 in Japan and around November in the US/Europe which was fully backward compatible with Saturn games and with DVD games storage and DVD movie playback (licensing fees easily afforded due to their increased financial position).

Yes the PS2 would of came in March 2000 but remember in this alternate reality it wouldn't of been anywhere near as anticipated due to the PS1 selling way less and the Saturn selling alot more and thus Sega could of just released a statement to all the gamers in the world along the lines of ''don't bother with PS2 as we are working on the Saturns successor that will be even more powerful, will also feature DVD playback and will be backward compatible with Saturn games'' and the control pad would of been better designed with dual analogues horizontal to each other like the dual shock and 2 top L & R buttons

We would of then probably seen a scenario with PS2 that we saw with Dreamcast as in it sells well at launch but as 2001 approaches and the Dreamcast comes out 3rd parties and gamers all switch their attention to Sega's machine and the PS2 sales start to dry up. And remember without the Playstation brands ultra strong reputation in this alternate reality the hard to work on PS2 would of actually counted against them alot more. All the GTA games all the FF games and more than likely EA'S sports games and the MGS games all would of come to Dreamcast and it probably would of sold like the PS2 sold in reality.

Oh and one final thing if i was the head guy at Sega making all these decisions and at the same time i had come from this 2011 reality thus having all the gaming history knowledge i would of overruled the rest and choose to name the Saturn the Dreamcast. I don't care if they argued with me and tried to explain that they wanted to name their system after planets i would of stood firm and convinced them in seeing the beauty of the name Dreamcast and would have to just make up the fact that i came up with the name after having a good Sega dream . The Saturn was not a popular name with the gaming masses and in naming the Saturn Dreamcast it would of then allowed me to tell Sega to name their 128 bit successor the Dreamcast 2 when it was time to launch it. Dreamcast Bomberman anyone!

Other little silly obsessive things of mine i would of done was made the Dreamcast (formerly Saturn) white with blue power/reset/open buttons in all territories and on the disk lid i would of had the SEGA writing on the top part of the lid in colour (blue) and the Dreamcast writing where the Sega Saturn writing was which was on the lower part of the lid and had the swirl blue in all territories. I'm aware it was Orange in Japan for luck reasons but i would of quickly overruled that aswel and said ''sorry we don't need luck we are skillful and blue must represent the Sega brand always and worldwide (just like red is associated with Nintendo and Green is associated with Xbox). It would just be my way of making Sega's machines stylish and aesthetically attractive/pleasing in its own unique way which we all know works.

TL;DR

As a History Graduate skimming a few lines this reads like terrible Fan-fiction rather than being grounded in any logical and possible outcome of Historical precedant or possible plausable alternative decisions by big-wigs at Sega. All I can say is...

Attachment 4257

[SonicTheHedgehog]

TL;DR

As a History Graduate skimming a few lines this reads like terrible Fan-fiction rather than being grounded in any logical and possible outcome of Historical precedant or possible plausable alternative decisions by big-wigs at Sega. All I can say is...

Attachment 4257

All of this was very possible and in fact should of been done by Sega and could of easily been if it wern't for there inept business decisions and inability to read the market. I guess you failed to realize that due to only skimmimg a few lines. I'd like to hear why you think it was implausible and illogical to design a better 32 bit machine (the cpu clock rate query was just that and no more) or to get stronger 3rd party support or to be able to launch a 128 bit machine later after having more success in the 32 bit market. I would also like to know how on earth you find it fan fiction and implausible for Sega not to release 2 poorly designed add ons and just wait for the 32 bit gen.

Oh and your 4257 attachment failed and said it was an invalid attachment.

[ThugsRook]

alt hist Z:

no SEGA CD, no 32X, SVP add-on for certain games, GEN II released in 92 with twice the power. (non-32x mars)

they also change their software policy and stop the flood of horrible shovelware games.

[StarMist]

I didn't vote for any of the above reality options as i feel and think there should be another option. My reality would of been no invention of Sega CD and no invention of 32x with all that time and money spent investing and pushing the MD and developing games for it. And then a better designed Saturn

This is my favourite, wilder altiverse, with the exception of the namechange to 'Dreamcast'. A good name to be sure, as is your championing of Sega blue, but were I to keep Sega in the console game I would have it go thus: No SMS compatibility for the G/MD. Nintendo slaughtered its competition in the 8 bit field and there should be no reminders; the SMS is likewise a sad precursor to the real Saturn's late feebleness. So a slightly more powerful G/MD with innate 3 channel output like phonograph players have (a superb sound and as close to Dolby as pre-32 bit games could use). And not a whisper of another system till their 32 bit sortie in `96. This beast would be physically larger than the Xbox, black and sanguine in design, with a devil tailed Sega logo on top, called the Sega Monster. No prettiness, no elegance, no dicking around. No backwards compatibility, no add-ons, no MPEG cards, no 'optional' memory cards, no batteries, no Net Link (because it's inbuilt): no dicking around. 4 control ports, and dual video output for multiplayer games on separate tvs. It would be as powerful as the DC, with no region lock, plus stringent copy protection. (And this isn't insane, the DC's not the PS2). Sonic, Shining Force, and Phantasy Star would proliferate in 2D, but as mascot Sonic would be replaced by Nights, his 3D alter ego.

StarMist's Altiverse. This one's more realistic. In this universe Sega learns from their mistakes. The wrecks that were the CD, 32X, and all their little gadgets teach them never to make another console. When Sony announces their entry into the video game market Sega strikes up an exclusive alliance with them; with Sega's added resources the PS is made slightly more powerful in hardware and has an extraordinary launch lineup. Unfettered from hardware's financial strain Sega returns to their old franchises with love and gives us game after game and nothing else. Those already mentioned, plus SOR, GA, their sports series, their racing games, EC, Altered beast, Space Harrier, Afterburner, even Alex Kidd all get a title at least every 18 months. By the advent of the Xbox Nintendo is so weakened that they too are compelled to join the Sony-Sega stranglehold, ensuring that M$ is kept a distant second place till the world's end.

[sheath]

That last alterverse is impossible. Sony strangles developers into making nothing but franchises and sequels. Sega would have died in 1994 instead of 2001 as a result of any agreement with Sony.

[StarMist]

That last alterverse is impossible. Sony strangles developers into making nothing but franchises and sequels. Sega would have died in 1994 instead of 2001 as a result of any agreement with Sony.

No they don't. Look at all the new titles that came out between the PS1 and PS2. Sony strangles developers into making games like, what, the two Everblues? A terrible fate indeed. They really cramped Konami and Atlus . Square and Namco and the like are developers who strangle themselves.
Sega nearly had died by `94. After that they produced only 4 new IPs of value: Panzer Dragoon (Saga is a branch), Nights, Jet Grind/Set Radio and Crazy Taxi. Sega died because they don't make sequels to their franchises that need them. Perhaps the new 2D~ish Sonic games will raise them from the ashes but that would only illustrate my point.

[sheath]

I see what you're saying, but IPs of "value" is obviously only from a sales/popularity perspective. Sega created more new IP themselves for the Saturn and Dreamcast than any other individual developer. It had also always been Sega's tradition to make more new games than farm out sequels, that is why most Sega fans are Sega fans in the first place.

Sony, by comparison, usually only makes or buys exclusivity for new games that look and play like a popular game on another platform. When Sega gave up owning their own console platform, they also conceded that companies like Sony and Electronic Arts were right to make virtually nothing but derivative games.

Really though, I blame the consumer for buying those games instead of trying new stuff. But the bottom line for me is that some companies used to love making games and others were obviously just in it for the money.

[StarMist]

I see what you're saying, but IPs of "value" is obviously only from a sales/popularity perspective.

No, it's from the perspective of my personal preferences, which is far more important to the world at large.

Sony, by comparison, usually only makes or buys exclusivity for new games that look and play like a popular game on another platform.

Sony created the 32 bit gaming era. The Playstation was the Nintendo of the `90s. They bought or stimulated every worthwhile franchise Sega or Nintendo didn't make from `94 on, which is the great majority. And very little of those new franchises resembled popular games on previous platforms, which is why they're hated so much by the 2D devotees on this site. Sega put themselves out of business, not Sony. All the same I considered tagging a disclaimer after my first post that the StarMist Altiverse might contain a degree of false advertising to its realism.

Really though, I blame the consumer for buying those games instead of trying new stuff. But the bottom line for me is that some companies used to love making games and others were obviously just in it for the money.

Yep. That's it. And those who love doing anything anywhere always get pushed out by those just in it for the money.

[SonicTheHedgehog]

Sega nearly had died by `94. After that they produced only 4 new IPs of value: Panzer Dragoon (Saga is a branch), Nights, Jet Grind/Set Radio and Crazy Taxi. Sega died because they don't make sequels to their franchises that need them. Perhaps the new 2D~ish Sonic games will raise them from the ashes but that would only illustrate my point.

No Sega was dying in the 32 bit gen due to lack of major 3rd party support. And due to their expensive inferior system that's what caused their financial collapse. You see during the 16 bit gen the audience was younger and bright colorful characters and franchises were alot more influential and shifted systems. The 32 bit generation was where gaming started to grow up due to the shift to 3d and as far as shifting consoles go it was all about 3rd party support which Sony had totally and Sega had next to none of compared to Sony. If we look at the best selling games of that generation they were all 3rd party games like FFVII,VIII,IX, Tomb Raider 2, Tomb Raider 3, Tomb Raider 4, Metal Gear Solid, Resident Evil 2 & Nemesis, Tekken 2 & 3 all of these games i mentioned sold more than the best selling Saturn game worldwide which was Virtua Fighter 2 which according to Wikipedia shifted around 2.2m units but Wikipedia isn't 100% accurate. So it didn't matter if they had 1 or 2 Sonic games that shifted 5 or 6m units each when you have loads more games on another console that people desired enough to buy the console for that were all 3rd party games.

If the Saturn had been a 3d designed system that was at least as easy to program for as the PS and offered at least the same power and if they hadn't damaged their reputation with the Sega CD & 32X failures it's more than likely all the 3rd parties would of backed Sega's system. A very worst case scenario would be at the end of the 32 bit gen Sega & Sony being 50/50 in market and units shifted. Sega should of got Square signed up from the start exclusively and i don't understand how they couldn't of seen this even back then as their Japanese side wanted so desperately to have the success that S.O.A had and the most popular games in the east back then and still to a large extent now are RPG'S.

[StarMist]

No Sega was dying in the 32 bit gen due to lack of major 3rd party support.

I actually meant as a company altogether: they've been virtually dead as a developer for quite some years. Obviously 3rd/2nd party support is imperative for a company publishing a console.

{{ iteration }}

I said before your Altiverse was my 2nd favourite.

Sega should of got Square signed up from the start exclusively and i don't understand how they couldn't of seen this even back then as their Japanese side wanted so desperately to have the success that S.O.A had and the most popular games in the east back then and still to a large extent now are RPG'S.

This sort of mismanagement is why I said they should've dropped out of the console business and joined Sony, they just can't handle this stuff. I was derided some time ago in another thread for suggesting Sega should've got exclusives with Psygnosis prior the PS launch--they went way back and the connexion just makes sense. Square would've been great, Konami better, Atlus fantastic. They should've at least got Enix and Game Arts though.

[sheath]

Some folks around here might get their panties in a bunch for claiming that Saturn and Dreamcast games made by Sega weren't great games. The thing with Sega that I love from that time is that they were of the "want it done right do it yourself" variety. I seriously loved everything they made outside of sports and licensed games. Sometimes I even liked those when Sega made them, which really is saying something.

I am going to contest the assertion that Sega died as a developer prior to the Saturn though. Just look at the Saturn's worldwide library. Look at how many of those games were made by Sega, it's unreal. Not one company even attempts to pull that off today.

I say that Sega historically proved that the game industry isn't really about games, it's about franchises and familiarity. If it weren't for Sega we might still have companies desperately trying to create new IP and make more games than their competitors thinking that is what consumers want.

[SonicTheHedgehog]

Oh and i forgot to mention that if Sega had all the 3rd party support then they could afford to be their creative original selves and release their Nights Into Dreams & their Burning Rangers and later their Jet Set Radio's & their Super Monkey Balls e.t.c as even if these didn't make huge profits they would be protected by strong 3rd party support.

This sort of mismanagement is why I said they should've dropped out of the console business and joined Sony, they just can't handle this stuff. I was derided some time ago in another thread for suggesting Sega should've got exclusives with Psygnosis prior the PS launch--they went way back and the connexion just makes sense. Square would've been great, Konami better, Atlus fantastic. They should've at least got Enix and Game Arts though.

Yeah Psygnosis was definitely one they should of got. Not only for Wipeout but for the excellent at the time F1 & F1 97 compared to Sega's waste of the F1 license with the poor F1 challenge.

I say that Sega historically proved that the game industry isn't really about games, it's about franchises and familiarity. If it weren't for Sega we might still have companies desperately trying to create new IP and make more games than their competitors thinking that is what consumers want.

Yeah this is pretty spot on and what i first mentioned above before noticing your post after i posted this. I loved so much of their unique games but using Nights Into Dreams as an example they were for the most part just too exotic and unfamiliar to succeed on a mass scale. As you mentioned the masses of people fear what they don't understand and generally go for another FPS, another Sports game, another racer when they arn't necessarily better but are better understood. Thats why Sega needed 3rd party support to be able to continue to make games like Nights & REZ.

[StarMist]

Some folks around here might get their panties in a bunch for claiming that Saturn and Dreamcast games made by Sega weren't great games.

I'm one of those, albeit I seldom wear panties anymore as they tend to chafe. I mentioned two of each as exceptions to Sega's defunction. I don't adore every game anybody makes and the Saturn's Shining games for instance really disappointed me. Anyone who's read a dozen of my posts knows the Saturn is a strong contender, essentially a tie, for my absolute favourite system. Yet that doesn't mean it's anywhere near so powerful as it should be nor that all its games are gold. Continuing under the rather mad predicate people here read others' posts anyone who does so knows I detest many of the most popular franchises on every system, so it's not remotely as if I'm bashing Sega--whose games are generally the only reason to own their consoles. The Genesis/MD without Sega would be a Disney machine with some Rolling Thunders and shooters; the Saturn a shooter and sim player with inferior video; the DC a stupid N64 upgrade plus sims, Grandia 2, the Evolutions, and more shooters. Don't forget I like Ecco DC a lot, by far the franchise's best, it just wasn't a new IP.

Just look at the Saturn's worldwide library.

You can't seriously think me unaware of it. Again, I named the new series I favour on it. Sega Rally and Touring Car are just extensions of their old arcade racers to me; perfectly fine but nothing new; similarly for Daytona though that game bores me. Burning Rangers goes squarely in the suck drawer for me, beside Sonic R and 3D Blast (whichever console's you wish to deem it).

I say that Sega historically proved that the game industry isn't really about games, it's about franchises and familiarity. If it weren't for Sega we might still have companies desperately trying to create new IP and make more games than their competitors thinking that is what consumers want.

Not entirely. How many times would one wish to play the same game? Does cowboyscowboys really want to be playing SOR2 over and over w/o change; Baloo Nights; QuickSciFi Aladdin? I don't even pick up Phantasy Star II anymore. More of the same doesn't necessitate shovelware; it makes it likely but not a given. Plus the world economy is such that everything's conservative. And I don't mean its status, I mean its architecture. Still there's nothing wrong in following up a success with a success of the same mould. Change something, add something, erase something; those are part of creation; but don't leave a great creation out in the cold.

[sheath]

I'm playing through Batman Arkham City for the PC, having traded the 360 version after beating the story mode minus the missions, and I'd rather play this than virtually anything else that has come out this generation. I've played through Arkham Asylum repeatedly on both the 360 and PC as well. I like these games because of the group fighting scenarios and responsive gameplay. On the hardest settings I can and do lose often. I prefer Golden Axe Beast Rider's group fighting mechanics, but that proved too much for the masses, so I am taking what I can get.

Because I can't get new versions of games in the genres I most enjoy I do in fact repeatedly replay the same games over and over. Sometimes I am grateful that they don't have seasonal sequels like popular franchises because I know that would eventually cheapen the game in my eyes. Since I started gaming in Arcades and on the Master System I was essentially trained to expect even a new game in the same franchise to look and play totally differently from the previous installment or other games in general.

The reason I am still a gamer is because companies like Sega didn't shovel out more Shinobi and After Burner clones than unique gameplay experiences. The reason I am almost definitely not going to get into any future gaming platforms because I know they are going to focus on games I won't like and franchises that hold no meaning (or bad meaning) for me.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

May I ask what's wrong with Burning Rangers and Daytona USA?