Discuss alternate realities here!

[kool kitty89]

The Genesis needs the 32X to be a cheap 3D console, and the SNES needs the SFX2+RAM to be a cheap 3D console.

Well . . . in that context, the Genesis just needs the SVP+RAM to be a cheap 3D console (and an arguably better one than the SNES+SFX2 at that). For that matter, the MD+CD also made a fairly decent 3D console and the price of the CD in '94 was down to similar levels as the 32x as it was. (OTOH, the SVP still would have been cheaper and more universal for the average users -especially for the budget market)

Yeah, I don't seriously think SEGA and Atari would have joined forces, but it's an interesting thought experiment.

Hmm . . . given the right circumstances, I could see that being somewhat believable though. Hell, back in 1988, Atari Corp and Sega almost did join forces (Sega wanted Atari to handle marketing/distribution of the MD for North America -Mike Katz, president of Atari Corp's Entertainment division, was in favor of the idea too -of course, he ended up at Sega at the end of the next year ).

Assuming Atari Corp actually approached Sega back around 1991 (when the Jaguar was just solidifying in its early prototype stage -first silicon for Tom rev1 at the end of the year), they very well may have piqued Sega's interest in such a project (at very least in a similar manner as the SGI project supposedly did a bit later). Plus, unlike the SGI proposal (going by the little we know about it), the Jaguar would have been much lower cost and much closer to market-ready (both the primary concerns SoJ engineers had over the SGI chipset -apparently) and the Saturn project would have been in the very early stages (if even started) so there would be little investment lost by shifting priorities to the Jaguar.
The Jaguar chipset also could have fared pretty well as a high-end 2D Sega arcade board (sort of like the ST-V, but earlier and not as powerful in some areas -more flexible in others though) -remember, the Jaguar chipset was somewhat modular (particularly in terms of RAM configuration and CPU), so there could have been a considerable boost to the arcade system while still using the same ASICs as the home console. (which is what the CoJag did with its R3000 or 68EC020 and added bank of VRAM -the Jaguar's memory map supports 2 4 MB banks of DRAM and a 6 MB bank for ROM -the 3 banks share a bus, but keep page-access separate for DRAM, so one or both DRAM banks can stay in page-mode when another bank is accessed concurrently)




Come to think of it, I think this may be my new favorite scenario for the topic . . . both Sega and Atari could have been better off and the Jaguar hardware (and Flare) would have gone to much better use. (plus the potential market changes -for consumers and developers- with a relatively low-cost early 32-bit generation platform -be it cart based or a CD system still less than 1/2 the price of the 3DO -or do both CD and cart like the Saturn+Jupiter concept)

Hell, if Atari had managed to swing that back in '91 (and got generally boosted PR and investor interest from it), their situation might have stabilized a bit more, allowing their computers and the Lynx to be better managed/supported as well. (had they kept the ST line at least reasonably relevant in its niche US market and mainstream in Europe into the early 90s, then it might have been possible to roll the Jaguar chipset into the computer line as well -that would have been really interesting to see around '93/94)

[Da_Shocker]

You do realise that Sheath has been posting scans primarily from Mean Machines Sega don't you? a dedicated Sega magazine.

Great, and now you're just holding your hands over your ears ignoring the fact that even Mean Machines Sega, the dedicated Sega mag was expressing doubts by May 1995, (and in fact if its the May issue then that was written in April anyway), and GamesMaster infered it wouldn't be supported for very long in February of 1995.

You two have no argument, all you're putting up is false logic

"32X was required because Sega may or may not have had other ways to increase revenue"

"lack of negative comments in magazines proves positive feeling"

and its you guys who are picking and choosing which sources to listen to, look at the earlier source from May 1995 "with all the talk of the 32X being crap" that indicates that public feeling may have already soured by that point too.

EDGE April 1995

EDGE has doubts that 32X is a wise move
EDGE thinks 32X distracts consumers away from Saturn
EDGE thinks 32X spreads Sega too thin
EDGE thinks 32X is a poor product











Its interesting how flawed his defense of releasing the 32X is, he says that US gamers aren't ready for the next generation yet because its just too expensive, and that 32X will be required until prices drop, then he lays down the price ranges

$399 - Too expensive for mass-market acceptance
$299 - respectabe but not huge sales
$199 - much better very healthy sales
$99 - huge sales

The problem being, the only company selling hardware for $399 was Sega themselves! all their competitors were under $299, Sony launched at $299, and Jaguar was now well under $199 at this stage, at the end of this year Jaguar was at $99 and 3DO was at $199.

Their add-on was in the same price bracket as their competitors consoles.

I wonder do I still have that magazine. But what sticks out the most to me is how Kalinske keeps pressing the issue of price. Then when NG asks about the quality of the games the game stumbles and bumbles like a motherfucker. He knew the 32X games were mediocre as hell. A good price point will only get you so far if you don't have good games then you're fucked and the 32X didn't hacve to many good games.

[Da_Shocker]

About the Edge - Kalinske interview, I think it is pretty clear that Edge didn't have any ties or love for Sega. In fact, based on all of the articles that newguy has posted they pretty much didn't like anything Sega made. I like how they somewhat contradict themselves with this statement:




In comparison with the now very familiar "split markets" question:



So, on the one hand Edge characterizes Sega's userbase as a bunch of fanatics that won't buy anything but Sega products, and on the other Edge thinks that six Sega platforms is almost impossible to support (while citing nothing but their own doubts, and enthusiasm for 32bit gaming). I find this not only self contradictory, but short in vision. In the video game industry today most developers are making the same game, or multiple games for up to five platforms all the time. Very few developers stick to fewer than three platforms today, and very few did back then as well. Akklaim and EA would make games for as many platforms as existed, for example. Edge's derogatory view of Sega's multiplatform strategy is just wrong.

Its even funnier that Edge needs to stretch the truth by calling the 32XCD it's own platform, when in reality most multiplatform developers, including Sony Imagesoft, would make SNES, Genesis, and Sega CD games concurrently while down porting to the Game Gear and Gameboy without being "stretched too thin". But even if the Genesis, Sega CD, 32X, Game Gear, and Saturn did happen to be too much of a strain for Sega's resources, the expensive part of each products development and launch was already behind them except for the Saturn's western launches.

Strange though, how this stretched six platform complaint has come up so frequently today almost word for word when Edge is the only contemporaneous source to print it. It will be interesting to see how many more times they print that idea, and how the wording changes from a question to a statement of fact.

Also, I would say that Mean Machines Sega would be the UK equivalent of Mega Play. The writers were likely the same ones as the Nintendo magazine and others, just like Mega Play was staffed by EGM writers.

[ifkz]

Okay, since some of us will_not_stop postulating about alternate universes. I thought I'd start a thread! ....

A. Real history, Sega releases everything exactly when they did. That is the Genesis and SMS are on the market exactly as they are by 1989, the Sega CD by late 1992, the 32X by 1994, the Saturn in May of 1995 and the Dreamcast on 9.9.99. No price changes, no abstract alien technology shoehorned into the hardware, everything exactly how it is in reality. Also, no changes in marketing.

This may be a little OT to the original post, but...

My change is this: I am declared president of Sega in 1995 just as the 32X was being pulled from the market and the Saturn is about to launch. What would I do?

1. Keep Sega Visions alive, even if I had to keep giving it away, at least two years into the life of the Saturn. Back in the early 90's, I say this was the main way Sega communicated with customers, hyped projects and games, and kept interest in the platform up. Since this is a money losing operation, two years into the Saturn I would ask for customers to accept either (1)a free e-mail .pdf of future issues or (2)a subscription fee for yearly issues. Most would adopt #1, which would keep costs minimal and stem the red ink. The main point is to keep it free and active when the Saturn needs the most support, sales, and is the most vulnerable.

2. Enter the handheld market and become an exclusive publisher for current and future Nintendo handhelds. This would be tough to convince the board of directors at SOJ, but it would be worth the trouble. Sega had tried and failed in this market by this point. "It is sad, yes, we had great hardware," I'd say. "But we need revenue. Money. Games published here will not compete with the Saturn, but will compliment them." "Really, it will just be like the company entering the PC market with the Segasoft line." I think these are pretty hard points to argue against.

3. Port existing good 32x games to the Saturn. The Saturn is difficult to program and needs quality software, right? The 32x is dead, but it has a good number of exclusive, good titles. I would need some internal programming team to verify, but I'd nominate a few games for the Saturn treatment: Shadow Squadron, Knuckles Chaotix, Kolibri, Metal Head, Zaxxon, and Spiderman WOF, Star Wars Arcade. Easy, quick, and they would do nothing but help the early Saturn library.

4. Aggressively promote the Saturn's strengths with marketing. I never understood why Sega never promoted the extra RAM in the Saturn vs. the PS. It would be hard to make a good tagline, but a bullet point would work too. Some pure propoganda, like "Saturn games don't need to get cut down." "Saturn gives you more game." Something I'm sure the marketing department could whip up. Here's another: "Saturn gives you basic game saving out of the box, no expensive, additional memory card required." "Dual CPUs for faster, better games."

5. Set an internal team to improve the development kit sent out to 3rd parties. Make it easy for them, even give them the internal only tools. Have come internal development team complaints? Tell them "Sorry, Sony is doing it, we can not afford not to either. It's good business, but bad for egos."

6. Find some way to get a Sonic game out. Don't like Sonic Extreme's fish-eye camera? Fix it for the sequel, and don't make them trash all their work and start over. Is the dev team burned out? Transfer it over to a new team. X-mas deadline approaching? Port Sonic 3d Blast, but don't cancel the project entirely.

7. Delay the Saturn launch, if possible, to give the library a chance to have great titles available day 1.

8. Own up the the past hardware released and celebrate the failures. I think the real problem Sega had was agreeing hardware like the 32X was a failure, but being embarrassed about it. If I were interviewed and by a mag:
Q: Man, the 32x sure sucked!
A: Sure it failed, but at least it didn't burn your eyes out ala the Virtual Boy. We like it and it had some really good unique titles on it that we would like to bring to the Saturn to be appreciated by a larger audience.
Q: Okay I'll give you that one. But the Sega CD...
A: Oh, you mean the first CD-ROM system for most people? The one that lead the marketplace until the Saturn? I think you have your facts a bit wrong...

And so on...Heck, why not dedicate a contest in Visions that shows off customer's Sega hardware/software collections? It could have been fun...

9. Do not kill the Genesis, at least in the USA. Shelve most everything else, sure, but keep support alive. Help owners with the transition to the 32-bit years, and keep this revenue stream alive, at least two years into the Saturn.

Would any of this helped? It might have helped correct the course of the company, at least. But Sega was in for a huge fight from here on out.