Review of Retro Gamer's 32X "Retroinspection"

[Team Andromeda]

The 32X version doesn't have any of the polygon flicker and floor drop out that the Saturn game has

And the 32X was not a launch game made in a rush with a deadline that couldn't be broken and on incomplete development tools and even then, the Saturn version is much more impressive both graphically and more so for sound

The Saturn should have been able to handle a near perfect Arcade port but they rushed it and didn't even bother to fix it for the Western release.

That's like saying the DC should have been able to handle a perfect port of VT3tb. When you're developing on incomplete tools and rushing the game out with a deadline that can't be broken it's hard . BTW the Pal version was improved and featured less clipping

And that's how VF Remix came about

Well sort of . It came about for a couple of reasons as test for VF II porting and also has a way to get Virtual Fighter in to more Arcades, chips/cafe thanks to running on the cheaper ST-V boards. Which is what worked so brilliantly for Tekken running on system 12 board and meant that many more operators could afford the units compared to the cost of Model 1/System 22 boards

Yeah, I wouldn't use the Saturn port of Virtua Fighter to defend the system

Nobody is . Just pointing out that even the rushed VF port on the Saturn is way better than the 32X version and far closer to the Arcade

Oh and, Kinect doesn't count because you don't like it and Microsoft treated it like a new system launch

kinect is a fad and that's reflected in the charts . despite selling over 10 million hardly any of it's games top the charts . Its the same old story, does well over Christmas and then the real gamers go for their FIFA and COD

So the Sega CD was a moderate success but doesn't count because you don't like all of the games and the PCE CD

?. They were add ons to try and solve the 90's problem of high ram costs as add-ons they made sense and was always a way for various companies to get used to CD game development - where it was clear that was the way the whole industry was going . 32X made no sense after the 3DO and Jaguar flopped and SOJ were ready to launch the Saturn

[Da_Shocker]

Nintendo incrementally upgraded the Gameboy, Gameboy Color, Gameboy Advance, and DS and they are still a major player in that electronics sub sector. Here is where you logic is absolutely flawed. Releasing an incremental upgrade is no different if it is created as an attachment or a new device. The function is the same, to bolster sales while maximizing profitability on older hardware. You have been play acting so much I honestly don't know if your playing dumb or you really can't see the forest from the trees in this discussion.

I just wanted to confirm that you actually do mean to say that Add-on upgrades that succeeded in Japan are irrelevant to the discussion of incremental upgrades in the Video game industry. Does that include all hardware that only succeeded in one market?

I ought ask if you are acting. You think for some reason or another that the 32X had a fighting chance even though Sega had just released a previous expensive add on that didn't exactly set the world on fire so they release another addon. Now if you are an early adapter then that is 647 dollars spent for the Genesis, Sega CD and 32X. That is more than the Neo-Geo and approaching the 3DO price range. And it blows away the Saturn's 399 launch price for less performance. The bottomline is the 32X FAILED. The next Sega addon the Net-LInk FAILED. The DC zip drive was canned. So what does that say about Sega and all of these expensive addons?

[sheath]

I ought ask if you are acting. You think for some reason or another that the 32X had a fighting chance even though Sega had just released a previous expensive add on that didn't exactly set the world on fire so they release another addon.

No, you think every device must set the world on fire to be valid, I think the 32X could get Genesis owners into Jaguar and maybe some 3DO quality 32-bit graphics and sound and it could have been supported, for a profit, through 1996 and into 1997. You are obviously so blinded by media history that the 32X killed the Saturn that you cannot see it any other way. You have also crassly dismissed a huge body of evidence to the contrary while completely ignoring the fact that I have, in fact, said repeatedly that the 32X was never designed or intended to compete with or replace the Saturn.

Now if you are an early adapter then that is 647 dollars spent for the Genesis, Sega CD and 32X. That is more than the Neo-Geo and approaching the 3DO price range. And it blows away the Saturn's 399 launch price for less performance. The bottomline is the 32X FAILED. The next Sega addon the Net-LInk FAILED. The DC zip drive was canned. So what does that say about Sega and all of these expensive addons?

The Sega CD and 32X were for Genesis owners, the X'Eye, CDX and Neptune would have been for late adopters without a Genesis. Genesis owners who also early adopted Sega's only two add-ons would have paid $470 for both. I have repeatedly, on these forums, broken down the hardware cost per software unit bought to show that it takes less than 15 games to make the effective cost the same as SNES SFX games, and even fewer to get to Phantasy Star IV or Virtua Racing SVP costs.

What you are overlooking is that is the early adopter price. By the time the 32X was in full steam it was less than $100, which means that a Genesis 32X combined was $180 or less. Similarly, picking up a Sega CD at the time that the 3DO was $400 and Jaguar $250 would have been below $180 on its own.

Metal Gear Solid GBA/32X style:


Metal Gear Solid in 2D:


And then of course all of these games could have been made for the 32X or Jaguar in much higher resolution:

[Barone]

I own a SCD and of all the 180 games or so that were released only 20 or so are worth anything.

I think that 20 is a harsh number. 30-40 would be a better guess. It's not that bad if you consider that SoJ gave a jack about it during its lifespan.
Even with SoJ not pushing it and it not setting the world on fire, the add-on served to several purposes... At least it got a good 3rd party support in the western and there are some very good titles from them.
I don't think it hurt Sega's brand or caused any deficit (all years summed up).
But I do agree with you that the 32X in top of such was a crazy idea. They shouldn't, they thought they could but they couldn't.

Genesis and Sega CD could have been supported until the end of the SNES without too much trouble. Sega should have published a technical report to encourage the use of mode 1 and then some releases like MK games could have offered a enhancer CD that would provide arcade soundtrack and better samples to the cartridge games. That would be a cheap and useful way to maintain Sega CD on the road. Maybe the Sega CD would see a late 3rd party release here and there, a couple of downgraded ports that could have sold something or at least make its owners happier for have spending so much money several years ago. And if you consider the last Sega CD releases, they were mostly in the good half of the system's library. By 1995 the Genesis/Sega CD games looked much better than in 1992 and even the FMV titles were using much better encoding algorithms that looked much less ugly... One more year wouldn't have hurt anyone and it would have certainly let a much better taste in the mouth of Sega's costumers (or the retailers') than any new "wheel invention" by them.

IMO they should have accepted the lost of the first place to the SNES in the US (you can argue about numbers but nobody can deny that the hype went all over the Nintendo side after DKC and Sega have no real good answer to it) without so much crying about it, SNES was a newer system and it was pretty comprehensible to see a 1988 console in the second place. Sega could have done a lot of money in the 1995 Christmas and in all 1996 holidays with those old machines without hurting his brand and loyal costumers with the 32X joke.
By 1996, a downgraded MK Trilogy version would have sold some good copies to the Sega CD owners and make some easy money (just think about how Genesis UMK3 copies were sold and it was a dead console by then) (heck, it would require just the same UMK3 engine with more content). It could have been a good final title for the system and in 1997 they should have gone only with Saturn (I'm not talking about releasing it only in 1997, don't get me wrong).

Sometimes you have to accept some minor losses to be able to compete again in the future.
Sega's crazy ideas and attempts to regain the 1st place in the 16-bit war in the US were their doom.

Saturn would never have been the 1st place in the 32-bit war in anyway IMO. The system design was ugly, the hardware was a mess, the peripheral support was almost nothing in the beginning... But it could have done better without the evil caused by the 32X in last marketing wave.

[Da_Shocker]

No, you think every device must set the world on fire to be valid, I think the 32X could get Genesis owners into Jaguar and maybe some 3DO quality 32-bit graphics and sound and it could have been supported, for a profit, through 1996 and into 1997. You are obviously so blinded by media history that the 32X killed the Saturn that you cannot see it any other way. You have also crassly dismissed a huge body of evidence to the contrary while completely ignoring the fact that I have, in fact, said repeatedly that the 32X was never designed or intended to compete with or replace the Saturn.

No i'm no longer blinded by Sega goggles anymore and I can see the real world for what it is. I own more 32X games than I have PSx and SNES I owne 16 or 17 32X games so i have played the games enough to know what kind of quality was offered. I have said it again that I am glad that I waited and didn't pay 64.99 for that mediocre MKII port. But you keep bringing up the 3DO and Jaguar but those systems were selling way less units than the Genesis and SNES. Those systems NEVER caught a stride at all. The 32X didn't help the Saturn at all it did far more harm than it did goo

The Sega CD and 32X were for Genesis owners, the X'Eye, CDX and Neptune would have been for late adopters without a Genesis. Genesis owners who also early adopted Sega's only two add-ons would have paid $470 for both. I have repeatedly, on these forums, broken down the hardware cost per software unit bought to show that it takes less than 15 games to make the effective cost the same as SNES SFX games, and even fewer to get to Phantasy Star IV or Virtua Racing SVP costs.

WTF does the X'Eye CDX and Neptune have to do with anything? The CDX costed 399.99 when it was first release and I think the X'Eye was at 299 or something. They weren't exactly cheap and $470 is still to much for addons. Again it is still more money than the 399.99 Saturn. The 32X doesn't even have 15 games worth buying at MSRP.

What you are overlooking is that is the early adopter price. By the time the 32X was in full steam it was less than $100, which means that a Genesis 32X combined was $180 or less. Similarly, picking up a Sega CD at the time that the 3DO was $400 and Jaguar $250 would have been below $180 on its own.

And then of course all of these games could have been made for the 32X or Jaguar in much higher resolution:

Where are you getting these numbers at? Who was selling brand new Genesis 2 units for 80 dollars in late 94? You are aware that whenever the 32X price was slashed to 100 dollars that it was pretty much headed to the shitter right? A few months later the 32X was in the discounts bins for 19.99. I also don't get your point of showing those MSG games since Metal Gear has never even appeared on a Sega console to begin with.

............

[evilevoix]

You changing your tune. If you was a CRT TV owner you had to buy a new set to experience HDTV, just like you had to buy a new set if you wanted Stereo TV or Teletext if you TV didn't support it- They were no upgrades , very much the same goes for Mobiles you don't buy an add-on for your mobile that boasts it power and enables its to do new effects you have to buy a new phone . 32X was an add-on too far and one that wasn't needed given the time it shipped.



Oh it could and most machines before launch will always boats hundreds of developers with kits , but there is vast difference to developers just signed up on paper, to developers actually paying money for development/license rights on the 'said' console make games.



lets be real here , if was 3D and there is no way the 32X could have handle it, I doubt the Saturn would have been able to pull of a decent port



N AM#2 confirmed to the Japanese press that they were pushing 90,000 polygons in Viruta Fighter on the Saturn and that the final game would be pushing over 100,000. And I'm pretty sure SONY's Total NBA is pushing more polygons than's Iron and Blood.



That is just being silly , its like saying the DC didn't offer a true Arcade experience due to loading times . When it came to screen res, sound not just the CD music but sound effect (where the Saturn truly pisses on the 32X version) and polygons the Saturn was so much closer to the Arcade than the 32X version .





I know which version I rather play anyday of the week

I disagree, VF1 for the Sega Saturn was a buggy and glitch mess. The game play was messed up, frame rates were messed up. The game was obviously rushed to make the date before the PS1. This game was so bad that they released a repaired version called VF Remix, come on man the 32X version albeit missing the Polygon Count but much faster, smoother, and extremely playable. If you said VF Remix was better then I agree.

The 32X version doesn't have any of the polygon flicker and floor drop out that the Saturn game has. I would rather play it than the sloppy Saturn port. The Saturn should have been able to handle a near perfect Arcade port but they rushed it and didn't even bother to fix it for the Western release.

Agreed.

[Cornholio857]

I have an old issue of EGM that took a look at VF Remix and VF 32X. EGM basically said the 32X version of VF was quite better than the Saturn version of VF. They also went into what Team Andromeda said about VF Remix being somewhat of a test of porting VF2 to the Saturn. Under a screenshot of VF Remix there is a caption (I can't remember the caption 100% but I remember enough) "Is this what we can expect of the Saturn version of VF2? "

[sheath]

Was it this?

[Cornholio857]

Yep! Rep headed your way! (When I can give it to you again)

EDIT: Man, there were no captions. LOL Guess that's what happens when I try to remember something from that far back.

[sheath]

Yep! Rep headed your way! (When I can give it to you again)

Likewise, you rep worthy fool.

By the way, I just checked that VF 32X video and it seems off to me, this one is still emulation but much close to real hardware quality.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

Likewise, you rep worthy fool.

By the way, I just checked that VF 32X video and it seems off to me, this one is still emulation but much close to real hardware quality.

Does the game really run that much smoother on real hardware? If so that's pretty impressive for the 32X.

[sheath]

Does the game really run that much smoother on real hardware? If so that's pretty impressive for the 32X.

Belpowerslave and I vacillated over whether or not emulation had gotten good enough to use for this game. I wanted to nix it but couldn't find any technical reason to do so, so he ran with it until he got a better video capture solution.

Also, this will probably be dismissed by some because it is only from one region, but it is a great example of what third generation 32X games would have been like.

[Barone]

Well, something from the "jungle" for you guys (October 1995, Brazil):
Saturn Ad by TecToy:



Virtua Fighter Remix (Saturn):


Virtua Fighter (32X) (November 1995, Brazil):

[bpguimaraes23]

Well, something from the "jungle" for you guys (October 1995, Brazil):

Essa é velha. Eu tinha também.

[Barone]

Espera aí que tem mais, vou atualizar o post.
Hold on, I will add the VF 32X review in that post.