Review of Retro Gamer's 32X "Retroinspection"

[Cornholio857]

And are you sure those are the actual credits for Virtua Fighter Remix and that they are not just using the original Saturn version credits or the Arcade credits? I'm pretty sure it was mentioned in an AM2 interview and possibly even an interview with Yu Suzuki that AM2 didn't handle Remix, but AM1 did.

Virtua Fighter Remix was an update of the original Virtua Fighter with higher-polygon models (when compared to the Sega Saturn port; the original Sega Model 1 game has higher-polygon models than Remix) , texture mapping and some gameplay changes. It was given free to all registered Saturn owners in the US via mail. It also had an arcade release on the ST-V (an arcade platform based on the less powerful Sega Saturn) and later ported to Microsoft Windows as Virtua Fighter PC. The game was developed by Sega-AM1.

http://virtuafighter.wikia.com/wiki/..._Fighter_Remix

[Chilly Willy]

And if all of them think the 32X sucks because it isn't as powerful as the Saturn and PS1 they've been duped by media history and group think. If they think it was too expensive I can give them that in the UK and apparently Brazil now. If they think it didn't have good games they are applying a double standard to the 32X which states that if a game is available on other platforms it is invalid unless ground up rewritten for the 32X.

Moreover, this group of avid 32X haters have such a propensity for blowing even the smallest positive statement about the 32X way out of proportion that it makes their cumulative opinion more sad than relevant.

QFT

I particularly hate it when people claim the 32X was solely responsible for SEGA going out of the hardware business, or even for the failure of the Saturn.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

While I don't think it was responsible for killing Sega as a console maker, I do think it did hurt the Saturn initially, and some of the 32X games would have been better as Saturn Launch titles. Though if Sega had handled the Saturn properly the 32X wouldn't have been a problem.

[Barone]

I agree with the above statement...

However, I also hate when a debate people start to "fortify" in its positions, no matter what information you provide.
This 32X vs Saturn comparison is kinda non-sense to begin with, but even so if we can't agree that the 32X version of VF clearly plays and runs better than the buggy Saturn version, well, we should ask for Baloo to lock this thread 'cause I think we are going to a flame war right now.

Personally, I don't have fond memories about 32X for the main reason that I already explained: it was "untouchable" in my childhood world and that's not my fault. If it had survived any longer, I'm pretty sure that TecToy would have managed to drop down the production costs and the final price. Maybe several kids and teenagers could have bought one 'cause Mega Drive always had 75% of the market share here. Also, considering how the piracy striked the 32-bit CD based consoles here and for how long TecToy supported the Mega Drive, it could have, easily, survived until 1997-1998 in my country with watered down versions of 32-bit games from any other platform.

Well, the fact that many games are cross platform titles don't hurt the 32X itself IMO. However, if I was a teenager with a Mega Drive and enough money for a 32X I would probably take that in account... I think it's a matter of taste maybe, but exclusive titles really affect my opinion if I have to invest my money in a new platform or add-on.
The sad point is that when the most impressive games were released SoJ killed the system.
With money in my pockets, I could easily have bought the 32X only due to a VF demonstration into any VG store. Although, in that time the magazines should already have poisoned my mind with things like "the 32X is dead" or "Sega is facing financial problems" or whatever very negative against the brand.
If 50% of those said "unrealeased" titles had faced the light of the day teh system could have achived a slight success and maybe we could be talking about a 100+ games library today, and that would be really great for my own world...

[TrekkiesUnite118]

I agree with the above statement...

However, I also hate when a debate people start to "fortify" in its positions, no matter what information you provide.
This 32X vs Saturn comparison is kinda non-sense to begin with, but even so if we can't agree that the 32X version of VF clearly plays and runs better than the buggy Saturn version, well, we should ask for Baloo to lock this thread 'cause I think we are going to a flame war right now.

I think all but one of us here agrees that the 32X port of the original Virtua Fighter is the better version to own over the Saturn port.

[sheath]

The Saturn port actually is technically superior to the 32X game, I think even in framerate. It is also very close in model quality to the Arcade game, it's just the danged graphical glitches that mar it. I can't put a finger on why, but the 32X game seems to play a bit better as well, but that might just be a slight difference in timing created by the controller interface.

[Da_Shocker]

It still amazes me how some of you guys still can't take those Sega glasses off. I have no qualms on calling out ANY company on bullshit and I have done it several times on here. The 32X wasn't the only reason why the Saturn failed but it sure as hell didn't help the Saturn. And Chilly you have said that the lack of ram was the 32X's biggest issue so how Sega gonna go about for 4 years or so? Or what they gonna offer another ram upgrade for the 32X? Funny that Nintendo won the 16-Bit wars and didn't need a single add on. They ended up killing there SNES CD addon and took shots at Sega for there multiple addons. Beating the SNES didn't require 3 addons. Trying to compete with the 2 failing systems was stupid.

[Team Andromeda]

Almost all the footage of Virtua Fighter 1 on the Saturn I've seen looks like it's running at around 20 fps.

Oh not this You Tube curse . The game is running at 30 fps on Model 1 , Saturn and 32X . Like with VF II, Last Bronx on the Saturn getting the frame rate to run at the exact same speed for the Arcade version was the top priority because the team knew the fans of the Arcade versions would demand nothing less, given each frame is so vital in a VF game. Infact both AM#2 and AM#3 said the press conference that unless VF II and Last Bronx run at 60 on the Saturn, the projects would have been stopped

it fluctuates, which you can see in your own video for crying out loud.

Oh get real looking over Flash is pretty crap even now for videos , you have to bare in mind that's being recorded on my 6 year old PC with Virtual Dub and as anyone knows using Virtual Dub some frames will be missed and the audio now and again goes out of sych . Christ shake I can't even record my games with the Audio enabled on my PC speakers - because it will mess up the frame rate. Here a little tip for all you You Tube and Emu lovers out there . Play the real games on the real hardware and yes VF is 30 fps on the Saturn with not a single frame rate hit .

And that still doesn't make up for the flickering polygons and the glitchy mess the game is

There's the odd flicker on the floor which when playing you'll hardly even notice . Its not like Virtual Racing on the 32X didn't have clipping polygons (more so than the Arcade) same for Star Wars 32X . That's the price you pay for lauch games being rushed out

And are you sure those are the actual credits for Virtua Fighter Remix and that they are not just using the original Saturn version credits or the Arcade credits

Yes I own the game . Its an AM#2 production and you'll know that, because AM#2 logo is displayed, games ames that AM#2 never worked on even programming or overseeing the port, you'll not see their logo - Just look for the lack of AM#2 logo's on Daytona USA CE on the Saturn or Daytona USA 2001 - AM#2 doesn't even appear on the grass (Dinosaur Canyon) in both versions for example . SEGA Japan In-House teams hardly ever shared IP, much less code between the teams in the 90's or even now.

I think the confusion comes for the fact that like with NA@MI AM#1 developed the tools and graphical libraries for ST-V .

Virtua Fighter Remix was an update of the original Virtua Fighter with higher-polygon models (when compared to the Sega Saturn port; the original Sega Model 1 game has higher-polygon models than Remix) , texture mapping and some gameplay changes. It was given free to all registered Saturn owners in the US via mail. It also had an arcade release on the ST-V (an arcade platform based on the less powerful Sega Saturn) and later ported to Microsoft Windows as Virtua Fighter PC. The game was developed by Sega-AM1.

Well that's makes it right ? Lets just put one major correction for starters . ST-V is more powerful than the Saturn Its has more Ram, different serial I/O and a slightly improved Sound board for greater performance over the Saturn

What are you talking about? A tech demo running on real hardware is just that, sure the games will not look quite as good but that is understood

No its not the fact that a tech demo will never look as good as that in-game when running AI player input and camera control . Its also you're posting videos made recently. If that Tech demo was made with the same development kit, the exact same PC's, the exact same limits that all GBA developers had to deal with at the time , colour me impressed . Only they aren't , never mind the issues of trying to run all for the full 2 disc monster of a game on a GBA with its Cart and system ram levels

Just look at the Tech demo for HALO II


BUNGiE told us it was all in real time , yet HALO III couldn't even managed a reflective visor In game , never mind the final HALO II didn't come close to that tech demo, or the bullshit E3 2003 demo where BUNGiE admitted they coudn't get all that to run on the X-Box console Ram Limits and had to cut it . I'm sure if BUNGiE yet back to the code now with today's know-how, today's compression tools , they could not only fit all that in the a X-Box they'll be able to increase graphical performance too . I'm sure if AM#2 went back to the Saturn and Daytona USA , they would produce magical results with today's know-how tools and the knowledge base built up for the hardware

[sheath]

It still amazes me how some of you guys still can't take those Sega glasses off. I have no qualms on calling out ANY company on bullshit and I have done it several times on here. The 32X wasn't the only reason why the Saturn failed but it sure as hell didn't help the Saturn. And Chilly you have said that the lack of ram was the 32X's biggest issue so how Sega gonna go about for 4 years or so? Or what they gonna offer another ram upgrade for the 32X? Funny that Nintendo won the 16-Bit wars and didn't need a single add on. They ended up killing there SNES CD addon and took shots at Sega for there multiple addons. Beating the SNES didn't require 3 addons. Trying to compete with the 2 failing systems was stupid.

That is the best part about your self serving view. You aren't trying to call Sega out, you are just complaining about add ons. I wish the SNES CD came out. I would buy an upgrade for any platform I own. I paid a guy $80 to send me the Master System YM2413 upgrade and I would do the same thing to get upgraded graphics or sound on the NES. I have bought a TurboGrafx-16, sold it, bought another Turbo DUO, shipped it back to Japan because the drive broke, shipped the replacement to a guy in the States for a DUO/R with a region modded cart slot (total cost for the DUOs $450).Then I bought an Arcade Card DUO and an System Card 1.0 so I could play those games that needed them. If there was an M2 add-on for the 3DO I would buy one, if I could justify the cost I would have a Jaguar CD already (they cost too much and have a bad rep for breaking). If the Sandisk drive came out for the Dreamcast I would have bought it. I bought the Kinect.

Call me crazy or stupid all you want, it seems to make you feel superior, but I like upgrades for my platforms because it makes the games better or adds uniqueness to gameplay. What exactly does that have to do with Sega?

Oh not this You Tube curse . The game is running at 30 fps on Model 1 , Saturn and 32X . Like with VF II, Last Bronx on the Saturn getting the frame rate to run at the exact same speed for the Arcade version was the top priority because the team knew the fans of the Arcade versions would demand nothing less, given each frame is so vital in a VF game. Infact both AM#2 and AM#3 said the press conference that unless VF II and Last Bronx run at 60 on the Saturn, the projects would have been stopped



Oh get real looking over Flash is pretty crap even now for videos , you have to bare in mind that's being recorded on my 6 year old PC with Virtual Dub and as anyone knows using Virtual Dub some frames will be missed and the audio now and again goes out of sych . Christ shake I can't even record my games with the Audio enabled on my PC speakers - because it will mess up the frame rate. Here a little tip for all you You Tube and Emu lovers out there . Play the real games on the real hardware and yes VF is 30 fps on the Saturn with not a single frame rate hit .


There's the odd flicker on the floor which when playing you'll hardly even notice . Its not like Virtual Racing on the 32X didn't have clipping polygons (more so than the Arcade) same for Star Wars 32X . That's the price you pay for lauch games being rushed out



Yes I own the game . Its an AM#2 production and you'll know that, because AM#2 logo is displayed, games ames that AM#2 never worked on even programming or overseeing the port, you'll not see their logo - Just look for the lack of AM#2 logo's on Daytona USA CE on the Saturn or Daytona USA 2001 - AM#2 doesn't even appear on the grass (Dinosaur Canyon) in both versions for example . SEGA Japan In-House teams hardly ever shared IP, much less code between the teams in the 90's or even now.

I think the confusion comes for the fact that like with NA@MI AM#1 developed the tools and graphical libraries for ST-V .



Well that's makes it right ? Lets just put one major correction for starters . ST-V is more powerful than the Saturn Its has more Ram, different serial I/O and a slightly improved Sound board for greater performance over the Saturn



No its not the fact that a tech demo will never look as good as that in-game when running AI player input and camera control . Its also you're posting videos made recently. If that Tech demo was made with the same development kit, the exact same PC's, the exact same limits that all GBA developers had to deal with at the time , colour me impressed . Only they aren't , never mind the issues of trying to run all for the full 2 disc monster of a game on a GBA with its Cart and system ram levels

Just look at the Tech demo for HALO II

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkCgDIhUJmQ[/video]
BUNGiE told us it was all in real time , yet HALO III couldn't even managed a reflective visor In game , never mind the final HALO II didn't come close to that tech demo, or the bullshit E3 2003 demo where BUNGiE admitted they coudn't get all that to run on the X-Box console Ram Limits and had to cut it . I'm sure if BUNGiE yet back to the code now with today's know-how, today's compression tools , they could not only fit all that in the a X-Box they'll be able to increase graphical performance too . I'm sure if AM#2 went back to the Saturn and Daytona USA , they would produce magical results with today's know-how tools and the knowledge base built up for the hardware

I don't remember that video at all, thanks for posting it. I do remember the E3 trailor for Halo 2 was the actual real time intro to the game, everybody thought it was CGI until they were actually playing it on their Xbox.

Metal Gear Solid would need massive concessions on 32X and the Sega CD if the cutscenes were going to be retained, did you miss me saying that repeatedly? That was why I said it would be better off as a 2D game like Loaded, which you nixed out of hand.

That is an interesting side comment about today's development tools. Even if they still used the base hardware of the original kits they could probably do more and faster today on old hardware. My pie in the sky dream would be that actual studios start taking an innovation day every week to develop something for an old platform. I would eat that up. At any rate, the Metal Gear demo was the only tech demo I posted, the rest of the GBA library would be portable to the 32X. I posted that because I know for a fact that had the 32X been supported for 2-3 years with consistent releases it would be a great addition to the Genesis library. Even if most third parties just made their multi-platform games for the 32X I would have liked having the choice. I prefer Sonic 3D Blast on the Genesis, for example, even though I owned the technically superior Saturn version.

[sheath]

-edited-

The full HD version of the Jaguar-32X 2D Action-Platformers video is up. This one is much more clear than the original 480p encode.

[old man]

I think the 32x was a great little add on from a technical stand point, but it should have come out 1-2 years earlier and had better support. There was just too much hardware there at the end and it got crowded out.

[Team Andromeda]

I don't remember that video at all, thanks for posting it. I do remember the E3 trailor for Halo 2 was the actual real time intro to the game

That was the real time demo for HALO II and no the E2003 In-game was cut back it was never running on a acutal production X-Box

Bungie's admitted to Eurogamer that the Halo 2 E3 2003 presentation was a fanciful snapshot of a game that could never be recreated on Xbox hardware.
"The graphics engine that we showed at E3 2003, driving around the Earth city... That entire graphics engine had to be thrown away, because you could never ship a game on the Xbox with it," said Chris Butcher, engineering lead on Halo 2.

Metal Gear Solid would need massive concessions on 32X and the Sega CD if the cutscenes were going to be retained,

Lets get real the 32X could do Mario 64 , but it was be so cut back it wouldn't be worth the effort .

Even if they still used the base hardware of the original kits they could probably do more and faster today on old hardware

Exactly and you can say that about any Hardware . If AM#2 and Treasure were to go back and make a tech demo on Saturn Hardware with todays know-how todays compression software ECT, I'm sure they could produce some utterly amazing results same goes for the Teams that did wonders on the PS. The 32X was a nice and powerful system that sadly came to late and wasn't needed at all (with the Saturn and PS shipped) and unlike what SOA/SOE thought millions were ready to leave thier Mega Drive and Snes and pay for the 32 Bit generation .

Btw don't want come across like I have a going at you I like reading your posts ECT. But lets not try and overplay the 32X or say stuff like the VF on the Saturn didn't run at 30 fps

[Chilly Willy]

It still amazes me how some of you guys still can't take those Sega glasses off. I have no qualms on calling out ANY company on bullshit and I have done it several times on here. The 32X wasn't the only reason why the Saturn failed but it sure as hell didn't help the Saturn. And Chilly you have said that the lack of ram was the 32X's biggest issue so how Sega gonna go about for 4 years or so? Or what they gonna offer another ram upgrade for the 32X? Funny that Nintendo won the 16-Bit wars and didn't need a single add on. They ended up killing there SNES CD addon and took shots at Sega for there multiple addons. Beating the SNES didn't require 3 addons. Trying to compete with the 2 failing systems was stupid.

Of course I complain about the lack of ram - that's the one thing that makes it most difficult for homebrew. That has nothing to do with commercial games. Look at what TecToy did in Brazil for the MD after SEGA dumped it - they even got a version of Duke3D! Granted, it's more like Wolf3D with Duke characters, but just think if they had been able to carry on the 32X - maybe we'd have seen a REAL Duke3D on the 32X.

And you seem to forget the dozen or so special purpose chips used in SNES games for years. Nintendo didn't have a SEPARATE add-on, instead they forced their licensees to put an add-on in every single cart. SEGA tried to copy that with the SVP, which could have done rather well, but like everything else, SEGA lost focus quickly and forced everyone to move on to the Saturn. That was the BIGGEST problem with SEGA - no follow-thru. They put a little effort into the CD, barely any effort into the 32X, and next to no effort into the SVP (one game... one single game). If SEGA wouldn't support their own hardware, why would any other developer? SEGA had more focus on the GameGear than on the CD, 32X, and SVP combined. That probably hurt them as the GameGear never made any inroads on the Gameboy.

[Team Andromeda]

Nintendo didn't have a SEPARATE add-on, instead they forced their licensees to put an add-on in every single cart. SEGA tried to copy that with the SVP, which could have done rather well, but like everything else, SEGA lost focus quickly and forced everyone to move on to the Saturn.

Get Real SEGA forced no-one to go on the Saturn in the USA or Europe and that was the trouble (instead they backed the 32X . Also lets not try and compare the cheap DSP chip to the SVP - which made the Mega Drive version cost over $100 and that what killed that idea that wasn't an issue for Snes games that used the extra DSP and bare in mind that the SVP only every came into being for one game

SEGA had more focus on the GameGear than on the CD, 32X, and SVP combined. That probably hurt them as the GameGear never made any inroads on the Gameboy

Going a little bit OTT. SEGA supported the Mega CD from 1991 right through to 1994 and SEGA America to their credit support the Mega CD with lots and lots of money and some decent and I'm sorry NCL also play the Add On game and also don't support them or did NCL follow through with the NES Disc system ?, The N64 DD Oh yeah that's right not only did NCL not release it world wide they didn't even support the system for a year in Japan

Look at what TecToy did in Brazil for the MD after SEGA dumped it

LOL what has Brazil got to do with anything - In those days it was seen as bit of a 3rd world country and was never a place companies would release state of the Art consoles same went for China and Russia. This was the early 90's

[Barone]

Another awesome video

Thanks a lot, sheath...
Great to see all those games from hardware and with different takes...
Zool 2 looks awesome in the Jaguar, what's your thoughts about it? Tempo also suprised me, what do you say about it?

The Pitfall really looks better and smoother on the Jaguar.
That industrial background looks awesome in the 32X's Spiderman.
Rayman is beautiful, but feels like the Jaguar does not have anything as colorful AND dynamic as Chaotix, right?

LOL what has Brazil got to do with anything - In those days it was seen as bit of a 3rd world country and was never a place companies would release state of the Art consoles same went for China and Russia. This was the early 90's

Uh...
Master Sytem sold more here than in US, that maybe meant something to SoJ.
Master System release's line-up was chosen with the help of SOA's founder, that came to Brazil for that.
Master System, Mega Drive, Sega CD, 32X, Saturn and Dreamcast were officialy released here and TecToy had a partnership contract with SoJ. SoJ used to send officers to do quality control in the consoles' assembly line in Manaus.
Also, many Mega Drive games released here were not released in the US. We had an exclusive online gaming service called "MegaNet" that also allowed Mega Drive owners to exchange e-mails and use some other services...
Ayrton Senna's Super Monaco GP II was TecToy's idea and they participate in the development process.
Duke Nukem 3D was made by TecToy as long as some translations, like Yuu Yuu Hakusho Sunset Fighters...
Some Game Gear games were converted to the Master Sytem by TecToy.
Saturn was released here in the same day it was in the US; it was a "state of Art console" then, right?
...

Brazil was and is totally different from Russia, as Russia is totally different from China. Try to be less "generic" in the next post, please.