Review of Retro Gamer's 32X "Retroinspection"

[sheath]

I think what he's getting at though Sheath is that the AtariAge people will love anything with Atari Stamped on it. Atari could crap in a box and stamp Atari on it and people at AtariAge will go on about how it's the best box of crap on earth. So of course they are going to go on about how great the Jaguar is. If you venture to non Atari Jaguar fan boards you won't see anywhere near the same level of praise for the system.

This is a bit different from other "failed" systems like the 3DO, Saturn, Sega CD, Master System, Dreamcast, PC-Engine, and even the 32X in that if you venture to non fan sites you will still see these systems getting some level of praise from your average gamers. Yeah there are still your blind fanboys but there's people beyond that demographic who like the systems as well. The only people who praise the Jaguar, are the blind fanboys.

I was referring to the Jaguar thread in Insert Coin this time, here on Sega-16 there are a number of people who apparently appreciate the Jaguar.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

What Jaguar Thread?

[StarMist]

Here are the most pertinent and originally frequented Jaguar threads:
32X vs. 3DO vs. Jaguar
Atari Jaguar
Atari Jaguar, questions and thoughs about getting one.
Got An Atari Jaguar! Finally!

[sheath]

What Jaguar Thread?

There's more than one, there is this one, and this one, and then of course the Jaguar comes up all the time in any 32/64-bit discussion threads.

I should also add that the argument being used to claim that the Jaguar and 32X never should have released should also be fairly applied to Genesis homebrew games today, including everything released by Watermelon and Super Fighter Team, and Good Deal Games. They really are stupid for working so hard to release something for such a limited audience right? Right?

[Team Andromeda]

I'll tell you what TA, go on over to the Jaguar thread in Insert Coin and argue your heart out that you're right. I know you are capable of coming up with facts, so I can only assume you are actively trying to derail this thread. Actually, I know you are, because you just dodged everything I said, again.

I tell you what . How about accepting the fact that the Jaguar was a flop ? . Only you could make out otherwise , next you'll be telling me the Falcon wasn't a flop . Now I like my 3D0 and was a big fan of the system , but I know full well the system flopped . That's not to say the system didn't have any merits or didn't have good games, but the cold hard facts were it flopped , same for the Neo Geo Poket (which is the best HH I've ever owned ).

[sheath]

I tell you what . How about accepting the fact that the Jaguar was a flop ? . Only you could make out otherwise , next you'll be telling me the Falcon wasn't a flop . Now I like my 3D0 and was a big fan of the system , but I know full well the system flopped . That's not to say the system didn't have any merits or didn't have good games, but the cold hard facts were it flopped , same for the Neo Geo Poket (which is the best HH I've ever owned ).

Define Flop again? Is there a specific number of sales that makes a product not a flop? A specific number of games in its library? A specific amount of good press or a specific number of years of sustained years after its continuation? Please enlighten me while I consider playing some Super Burnout.

[Team Andromeda]

Define Flop again? Is there a specific number of sales that makes a product not a flop? A specific number of games in its library? A specific amount of good press or a specific number of years of sustained years after its continuation? Please enlighten me while I consider playing some Super Burnout.

Selling less than a million units of Hardware . What next CD32 and CDTV brilliant sellers and not flops . And Super Burnout ?

[sheath]

Selling less than a million units of Hardware . What next CD32 and CDTV brilliant sellers and not flops . And Super Burnout ?

Okay, so by your definition a number of the consoles and add-ons I own and enjoy were flops. Happy? Now please leave, your attitude is annoying.

[Da_Shocker]

I do think the Jag should've existed but it doesn't change the fact that it flopped now the 32X on the other shouldn't have existed at all. Thing is with the Jaguar is that is is really lacking in the software department and it's 3rd party support is tepid at best.

[sheath]

Yet by Retrogamer's account the 32X almost sold 1 million at launch. Interesting standards we have here.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

I think what he's getting at is was the decision to release those consoles the best decision for the company at the time. With the Jaguar it was pretty much the only choice they had if I remember correctly. As discussed numerous times before though, the 32X was not the best decision and there were countless other choices that could have been made which most likely would have resulted in a better outcome for Sega.

Hell, the choice "Do nothing" was a better choice for Sega than the 32X. If Sega did nothing and just held out for the Saturn and worked on getting it's launch ready and more organized, things probably would have turned out for the better.

[sheath]

I think what he's getting at is was the decision to release those consoles the best decision for the company at the time. With the Jaguar it was pretty much the only choice they had if I remember correctly. As discussed numerous times before though, the 32X was not the best decision and there were countless other choices that could have been made which most likely would have resulted in a better outcome for Sega.

Hell, the choice "Do nothing" was a better choice for Sega than the 32X. If Sega did nothing and just held out for the Saturn and worked on getting it's launch ready and more organized, things probably would have turned out for the better.

This scenario would require Sega to go into venture capital gathering mode like they did after the cancellation of the Saturn for the Dreamcast launch. Maybe this would have worked out better, maybe not. I think they made the best possible decision with the 32X, because of what it did for Sega's revenue in 1994 by all accounts. If public interest did start to wane by mid 1995 because of the Saturn they should have continued to advertise the 32X as a 3D 32-bit Genesis add-on and support it with games at least through the year.

Another thing that this thread has inadvertently brought up is the impression that marketing research apparently wasn't what it is today, or companies like 3DO, Matsushita/Panasonic, Sega and Atari didn't pay as much heed to marketing research as the megacorps do today.

[StarMist]

My rough standard is 100 decent games. A very flexible number tempered by proportions both of good to great and of trash. Strictly games that need to be in video game form, ie no sound novels, fan disks, hanafuda or mahjongg. 'Decent' means I don't have to like it, it just has to be rationally likable, not something for fetishists. Gex, which I can't stand, beinga mildly competent game whose most annoying aspect (voice) can be turned off, is decent. Primal Rage is not. And if a system only had 70 to 80 decent games with lots of trash mixed in (the 3D0's Vivid catalogue) it'd still get a pass so long as it had 5 good to great games; if those 5 were all round exceptional the decent list might drop further in requirements.
By these criteria the Jaguar, 32X, and CDi hopelessly flop; the 3D0 and Mega CD by narrower margins. However initial cost must also be taken into consideration since we're talking market, not pure gaming flops, whereby the MCD wins handily.

[Da_Shocker]

This scenario would require Sega to go into venture capital gathering mode like they did after the cancellation of the Saturn for the Dreamcast launch. Maybe this would have worked out better, maybe not. I think they made the best possible decision with the 32X, because of what it did for Sega's revenue in 1994 by all accounts. If public interest did start to wane by mid 1995 because of the Saturn they should have continued to advertise the 32X as a 3D 32-bit Genesis add-on and support it with games at least through the year.

Another thing that this thread has inadvertently brought up is the impression that marketing research apparently wasn't what it is today, or companies like 3DO, Matsushita/Panasonic, Sega and Atari didn't pay as much heed to marketing research as the megacorps do today.

Sega wasn't strapped for cash in 94.

[sheath]

Sega wasn't strapped for cash in 94.

Oh please, you know what I have posted about Sega's year on year decline in revenue by now. Strapped for cash, certainly not, but it would be VERY bad business to keep hoping the Genesis was going to turn around their revenue drop after at least two years of decline. Whether or not that Sega CD could have been positioned to do what the 32X did is a valid point for the overall discussion, but the fact of the matter is that the 32X and nothing else pushed Sega's revenues up in 1994 for the first time in years.