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Thread: Review of Retro Gamer's 32X "Retroinspection"

  1. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    The Genesis 2 is the only system that fits the new Sony and now Microsoft model of re-releases.

    You can't dismiss the successes that companies have had in these industries with their incremental upgrades just because you don't like them. Well you can, but it is completely irrational and hurts your argument.

    For example, I buy one TV and am done with it for five to ten years, but television companies thrive on people buying new $1000 sets every year. I had to wait for almost a decade to move up to an RPTV with 1080i output, and then almost another five years before I could justify purchasing a 120Hz HD LCDTV. I am not the target audience though.

    My statement was not in support of Sega in general, it was in support of incremental upgrades in general.



    Marketing research is 100% based in the past, if there is no success in the past there is no positive course of action for the future as far as marketing is concerned. This field is the absolute most closed minded sector of any industry I have looked into outside of business management. 3DO used the M2 trump card for years to keep whatever consumer and media interest it had after the PS1 onslaught. It obviously took that long to determine that actually releasing the M2 wasn't going to turn things around for them. Otherwise we wouldn't have had such regular PR statements about the M2 in the first place.

    So, up to and including the M2's discontinuation, add-ons were considered viable and profitable by the game industry. I even recall rumors for a 64-bitish add-on for the PS1 up until the Dreamcast's Japanese launch in 1998

    Keep on dodging the fact that you have no facts to support your opinion though, it only damages your "argument" further.
    Companies released streamlined consoles so they are cheaper than the first model. Often at the expense of leaving other features out this is common knowledge. Matsushita paid 3DO 100 million dollars for the rights for the M2. The guy that suggested for them to buy it ended up getting fired over it. Matsushita had the money to compete with Sony but backed off. And there main competition at the time was topping the N64 in performance. What 150.00+ addons are you talking about? And there was only talks about PSx upgrade due to Tekken 3 but they never materialized. But let's not go on about Sega rumored 64X upgrade for the Saturn.

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    You still seem to be going on that I think everything Sega did was right, that just ain't so.

    If I could live in your world for a minute and speculate forever without any factual basis I would have Arcades going strong into the present day with full on holographic gaming. Sega would have at the forefront of that industry and released a mini holographic projector for the Saturn as a result. Everything would have been happy and hunky-dory and the .com crash never would have happened so I could keep buying brand new games for $20 from start up companies.

    Also, the Sega CD 32X, Saturn and Dreamcast would have seen full ten year lifecycles, because I think that would have been fricking awesome.
    "... If Sony reduced the price of the Playstation, Sega would have to follow suit in order to stay competitive, but Saturn's high manufacturing cost would then translate into huge losses for the company." p170 Revolutionaries at Sony.

    "We ... put Sega out of the hardware business ..." Peter Dille senior vice president of marketing at Sony Computer Entertainment

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    Now you have lost me I just wanted a list of successful addons that costed more than 150 dollars when they were first released.

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    I remain nonsequitur Shining Hero sheath's Avatar
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    "... If Sony reduced the price of the Playstation, Sega would have to follow suit in order to stay competitive, but Saturn's high manufacturing cost would then translate into huge losses for the company." p170 Revolutionaries at Sony.

    "We ... put Sega out of the hardware business ..." Peter Dille senior vice president of marketing at Sony Computer Entertainment

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    WTF are you talking about? IDC about PC processors and GPU's i'm talknig about console upgrades.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    They're just tech demo's . Put game code into them, AI , Player moment and camera control and it becomes a different story
    Take another look at the earlier demo, those landscapes are far and away higher polygon count than any game of the 32bit generation. All they needed to do with this engine is reduce the scenery detail enough to include characters, objects, AI, collision detection and whatnot. -edit- Keep in mind that the 32X had the Genesis and its more than capable 68000 ready and able for most of these tasks.

    The point is, the 32X can render at that quality in real time. Adding gameplay mechanics while demphasizing the backgrounds would still have produced excellent games. Once again, the 32X's lack of third generation software is one of the gaming industries' biggest tragedies.
    Last edited by sheath; 12-28-2011 at 11:26 PM.
    "... If Sony reduced the price of the Playstation, Sega would have to follow suit in order to stay competitive, but Saturn's high manufacturing cost would then translate into huge losses for the company." p170 Revolutionaries at Sony.

    "We ... put Sega out of the hardware business ..." Peter Dille senior vice president of marketing at Sony Computer Entertainment

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    Quote Originally Posted by Da_Shocker View Post
    Now you have lost me I just wanted a list of successful addons that costed more than 150 dollars when they were first released.
    I don't know the exact price when released, but the PC Engine CD in Japan was at least in that ballpark.

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    Quote Originally Posted by arromdee2 View Post
    I don't know the exact price when released, but the PC Engine CD in Japan was at least in that ballpark.
    Japan isn't nearly as price conscience as the US and Europe is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    Take another look at the earlier demo, those landscapes are far and away higher polygon count than any game of the 32bit generation. All they needed to do with this engine is reduce the scenery detail enough to include characters, objects, AI, collision detection and whatnot. -edit- Keep in mind that the 32X had the Genesis and its more than capable 68000 ready and able for most of these tasks.

    The point is, the 32X can render at that quality in real time. Adding gameplay mechanics while demphasizing the backgrounds would still have produced excellent games. Once again, the 32X's lack of third generation software is one of the gaming industries' biggest tragedies.
    I'm sure the 32X could pull this off too.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Da_Shocker View Post
    I'm sure the 32X could pull this off too.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkEVKzZNQDY
    Sure thing, just like the PS1 actually pulled that off, you know, even once. It is freaking amazing how the PS1 was better than any dinosaur simulator ever released.

    Even more amazing than that is that some people somehow manage to class the 32X against the PS1 and Saturn. This seems to be their only purpose in life, to make the 32X not look like the PS1 or Saturn. It is freaking astounding really. I just can't say how amazed I am that a Genesis add-on isn't going to completely trump a completely new $500 console (at cost mind you).

    It's just shocking, I'm shocked at how dishonest some people are.
    "... If Sony reduced the price of the Playstation, Sega would have to follow suit in order to stay competitive, but Saturn's high manufacturing cost would then translate into huge losses for the company." p170 Revolutionaries at Sony.

    "We ... put Sega out of the hardware business ..." Peter Dille senior vice president of marketing at Sony Computer Entertainment

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    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    Sure thing, just like the PS1 actually pulled that off, you know, even once. It is freaking amazing how the PS1 was better than any dinosaur simulator ever released.

    Even more amazing than that is that some people somehow manage to class the 32X against the PS1 and Saturn. This seems to be their only purpose in life, to make the 32X not look like the PS1 or Saturn. It is freaking astounding really. I just can't say how amazed I am that a Genesis add-on isn't going to completely trump a completely new $500 console (at cost mind you).

    It's just shocking, I'm shocked at how dishonest some people are.

    But let's be real tech demo are jsut that they're not worth much I mean look at the Ultra 64 tech demo's and PS2 tech demo's. None of the actual games came close to delivering anything that looked that good and the 32X wasn't going to be the first to make something look that good and you know that sheath.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    Well, that is one valid argument you have made. But your reasoning is flawed and wreaks of mass-media history. Here are a list of industries that "junk up" their product lines way more than Sega did with its two Genesis add-ons.

    PC Industry
    -All hardware and software manufacturers constantly update their products at full price.

    Cell Phone Industry
    -Every manufacturer makes a new revision every few months with absolutely no regard to previous customers.

    Portable gaming Industry
    -Sony and Nintendo have been glib about making new versions of old hardware with new features annually.

    Console gaming Industry
    -Microsoft and Sony have made it "cool" to re-release their hardware in smaller form factors and hopefully more reliability.

    Televisions, Audio equipment and virtually every other form of electronics companies also practice the incremental upgrade "buy more" business strategy.

    So, your entire logical base is broken. The problem with Sega was they didn't gain a monopoly in any industry because other more anti-competitive companies had already made those fields virulent and the Arcade Industry was going to decline (supposedly) no matter what.

    Oh Dear GOD... You don't upgrade a cell phone, DVD or TV, Video Camera you got out and buy a new one and the PC is a totally different to a console: hence why one is called a console and the other a PC.

    Wow, that is a lot of developer support.
    The 3DO could boast over 200 developers, that means nothing until those developers actually make software for your system
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    Oh Dear GOD... You don't upgrade a cell phone, DVD or TV, Video Camera you got out and buy a new one and the PC is a totally different to a console: hence why one is called a console and the other a PC.
    So if Sega had just released a DUO and then TRIO console, giving previous owners no options whatsoever, it isn't an upgrade?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    The 3DO could boast over 200 developers, that means nothing until those developers actually make software for your system
    Not before launch it couldn't. Most of those 32X developers announced games and started working on them as well. There is every reason to suspect that had the 32X not been canceled in summer of 1995 that all of these developers would have supported the platform. It is no different than all of the games that started life on the Dreamcast and ended up on the PS2 or Xbox.

    Quote Originally Posted by Da_Shocker View Post
    But let's be real tech demo are jsut that they're not worth much I mean look at the Ultra 64 tech demo's and PS2 tech demo's. None of the actual games came close to delivering anything that looked that good and the 32X wasn't going to be the first to make something look that good and you know that sheath.
    I don't think the Ultra 64 and PS2 demos were even running on real hardware, they were outright lies. Now you are already blowing my statement out of proportion again. The Scavanger demo was running on a stock 32X, adding character objects, AI, collision detection and IO would cause those backgrounds to be stripped down or completely redone to maintain a playable framerate. The 32X did have the 68000 to handle all but the rendering though.

    Let's not forget we are talking about the developer that gave us Subterrania and Redzone on the Genesis and AMOK on the Saturn. AMOK's engine is actually in the later part of that demo.
    "... If Sony reduced the price of the Playstation, Sega would have to follow suit in order to stay competitive, but Saturn's high manufacturing cost would then translate into huge losses for the company." p170 Revolutionaries at Sony.

    "We ... put Sega out of the hardware business ..." Peter Dille senior vice president of marketing at Sony Computer Entertainment

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    How powerful is the 32X in comparison to the Saturn/PS1 and so on? I mean lets say it had full 1st and 3rd party support could it compete with proper 32Bit grafx like say Jumping Flash or Syphon Filter and the like?

    Could a 32X CD do Ridge Racer or Metal Gear?

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    Quote Originally Posted by evilevoix View Post
    How powerful is the 32X in comparison to the Saturn/PS1 and so on? I mean lets say it had full 1st and 3rd party support could it compete with proper 32Bit grafx like say Jumping Flash or Syphon Filter and the like?

    Could a 32X CD do Ridge Racer or Metal Gear?
    The 32X's theoretical limit is 50,000 polygons per second, in game it can probably do 20 thousand to 30 thousand. The Jaguar could do 10,000 but in theory could get to 20,000 and the 3DO could do 20 thousand to 25 thousand polygons per second. 1995 PS1 and Saturn games were pushing 60 to 80 thousand texture mapped gouraud shaded polygons. I am pretty sure Nights maxed out the Saturn at 180k and Iron and Blood maxed out the PS1 at 200k (you wouldn't know by looking at it). This is fundamentally why any theory that the 32X was ever meant to replace the Saturn is impossible and anybody who persists that was what the add-on was for is a stark raving idiot.

    Any 3D 32X game was going to suffer in comparison to the 3DO, Saturn or PS1 by virtue of its limited RAM. Having less than one fourth the workable RAM would severely limit the amount of texture mapping on screen. If the 32X tried to do Ridge Racer or Daytona it would look like a blend of Virtua Racing with sparse use of textures for landmarks and the main car.

    Just look at the stock car in Virtua Racing Deluxe and imagine the sky texture on the window and 2D road size objects to make it look more like Daytona. I would have loved to see the attempt by a capable developer like AM2. Nobody thought a system like the 32X or Jaguar could handle Virtua Fighter until it happened anyway.

    As for Metal Gear, its essentially a 2D game with 3D cutscenes. Imagine an engine like Loaded with FMV cutscenes on the 32X CD. I would rather see a fully 2D game with hand drawn cutscenes though, even the sniper scenes can be done in 2D.
    Last edited by sheath; 12-29-2011 at 10:10 AM.
    "... If Sony reduced the price of the Playstation, Sega would have to follow suit in order to stay competitive, but Saturn's high manufacturing cost would then translate into huge losses for the company." p170 Revolutionaries at Sony.

    "We ... put Sega out of the hardware business ..." Peter Dille senior vice president of marketing at Sony Computer Entertainment

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