Quantcast

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 31 to 41 of 41

Thread: Repro Selling on Sega-16

  1. #31
    Outrunner
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    569
    Rep Power
    20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by needler420 View Post
    And you're whole screen shots, artwork and videos being copyright material isn't. Some may be but the majority of it falls under the 7 seconds fair use of copyright material.
    I never said the screenshots were illegal. Downloading a commercial ROM is illegal, period. It doesn't matter what you do with it. It doesn't matter if you own a thousand copies of the original game. The only way to legally own a backup copy of software is to back it up yourself, and even then you may be breaking DMCA laws depending on how you went about doing that or what equipment you used.

    A picture itself of an illegal activity is legal, but the activity isn't.

    You're missing the point its not against the law to make and play a reproduction of a game. Its against the law if you dupe them and sell for monetary gain.
    This is 100% wrong. Piracy even without monetary gain is still illegal. Is it "wrong" or immoral? I'll leave that for others to judge.

    Make no mistake, I give zero shits regarding what anyone does with their games. What sticks in my craw is when people start pointing the finger at others claiming illegal or "wrong" while conveniently ignoring what they themselves do that is illegal or immoral.

  2. #32
    Road Rasher needler420's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    306
    Rep Power
    11

    Default

    Well I quit all piracy years ago. I was a OG napster and bearshare member since 56k dial up since I'm a teen. I never tried to make money from it though. I always did it out of hobby and a interest in the hacking community.

    Last edited by needler420; 06-22-2015 at 03:59 PM.

  3. #33
    Outrunner JumpingRyle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    737
    Rep Power
    31

    Default

    "People who sell repros suck! They profit off of the creativity of others!!!"

    But illegally downloading ROMs is OK?

    "Yeah, at least then nobody is profiting."

    What about the guy who runs the ROM site? You know how much they bring in in ad revenue?

    "Uh, well... I mostly just buy games on ebay."

    And what about the dealers who scour yard sales and Goodwill for games to mark up? None of that profit is going back to the creator.

    "Yeah, heh, funny that... Actually, I stick mostly to the Virtual Console."

    So the corporation that picked up the IP 15 years ago when the developer went out of business can profit?

    Simple-minded people argue that repro sellers are somehow worse than the alternatives. But they aren't just pulling money off of some mysterious cash tree while standing on the backs of others. They put in the work to make a nice product that people want. Their only problem is that they are easier to criticize than the alternatives, so they always get some jackass reporting them to PayPal.

  4. #34
    Heat Guy WCPO Agent Lync's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Niagara Falls
    Posts
    866
    Rep Power
    62

    Default

    Wanted to share this video as it presents the issue of reproduction cartridges and sellers from the perspective of a translator that I've in the past considered but perhaps not entirely appreciated until recently.

    I feel that there really isn't any right or wrong in any of this. Or at least there are just as many rights as there are wrongs about reproduction carts that ultimately whether you approve or disapprove, that's all according to individual interest. I enjoy the novelty of reproduction carts, I own a few but now I can't ignore the work of translation teams that is dismissed when a seller burns, packages and profits from that work.

    Translators do not profit off of translating a game they do not legally own but in turn repro sellers profit off of a translated game they did not contribute work to... Difficult for someone such as myself who wants that physical copy. I'm beginning to feel that learning how to make your own repro carts with the intent to just play and not sell is the best answer. But again, to each their own.



  5. #35
    Outrunner JumpingRyle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    737
    Rep Power
    31

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lync View Post
    Translators do not profit off of translating a game they do not legally own but in turn repro sellers profit off of a translated game they did not contribute work to... Difficult for someone such as myself who wants that physical copy. I'm beginning to feel that learning how to make your own repro carts with the intent to just play and not sell is the best answer. But again, to each their own.

    This is a more specific issue since certainly not all repros are of fan translations (but some are).

    The arguments presented in that video are juvenile and miss the point:

    1) "Repro carts of fan translations cast the fan translators in a very bad light by making them unwilling co-conspirators in illegal bootlegging."

    Right. As if fan translators do not realize that people will illegally download ROMs to apply their translations to. What fantasy world is this guy living in? Just because you release your translation as an IPS patch doesn't change the fact that the VAST majority (if not all) of the people who will use it will have illegally downloaded the game.

    That's a pretty silly argument, so it's probably not worth more time.

    2) "Repro cart makers are profiting off of the hard work of fan translators."

    That's a simplistic view of the matter that may or may not be true.

    If you ask a repro cart maker what they derive profits from, they will say:

    a) Designing and professionally printing high quality boxes, covers, manuals, labels and so on.
    b) Acquiring parts to produce the repro (donors or new carts, PCBs, cases, EPROMs, batteries).
    c) The labor of de-soldering donors/batteries, burning EPROMs, soldering new components, applying labels, etc.

    (I love how the guy in the video dismisses all of these as insignificant... Sure, they might not be difficult to do, but they do cost time/money).

    The ROM itself is irrelevant because it is freely available on the internet for anybody to download. To resolve this criticism, a repro maker could simply say to a potential buyer, "Please email a ROM to me to put in the repro cart. Any ROM is OK. I won't look at it. But I won't provide my own." Or, to take it one step further, a repro maker could request that a buyer use an EPROM burning service and then send the burnt EPROM to the repro maker. (that they don't do this is simply a matter of convenience)

    In the end, it hasn't been shown that ANY of the profit is due to the ROM itself. In fact, it's common to hear buyers say "I could make the repro myself, but don't have the time. I'd rather just pay someone else to do it" or "I played the game on my Everdrive and wanted a physical copy to add to my collection." These people are paying for the physical item and the labor, NOT the translated ROM. The problem is that it is impossible to separate the two, so fan translators (and their egos) will always see it simplistically as in that video.

    Meanwhile, fan translators claim blissful ignorance of any moral dilemmas concerning denied profits to developers who eventually do release translated versions of their games. For example: Monster World IV was officially released in English in 2012 on the Virtual Console. Think of all the denied profits that resulted from 10 years of people playing the fan translated version.

    In the end, some jackass will always try to claim moral high ground, but if you look hard enough you can always find ways that either 1) somebody is making money off of the hard work of the developers, or 2) somebody is denying profits to the hard-working developers.

  6. #36
    Heat Guy WCPO Agent Lync's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Niagara Falls
    Posts
    866
    Rep Power
    62

    Default

    I thought the individual presented himself and a translator's point of view in a very concise manner which is why I shared; the word juvenile is hardly appropriate unless you wish to blatantly dismiss the fan translation groups without considering their own time and efforts.

    It becomes a case of 'two wrongs don't make a right' really; anyone's preference to buy reproduction carts or not is in an already grey-area so people are free to do as they please. And I get that sellers have to put in the time to burn, solder, etc. but that shouldn't minimize the other half's time in translating, patching, etc.

    I've become split on it personally, and questioning morality of the seller or translator is aimless when money has no moral opinion. Even that said many forum boards forbid and censor threads about reproduction games all together, so it speaks volumes that Melf and Sega-16 allow the opportunity for us to discuss the subject.

    In any case I think it would be best to learn to make reproductions carts myself, members here like DJShok have made it so accessible for me to print my own label or cover art without charge (and they look awesome,thank you) that perhaps the end expression I'm searching for is: 'one person's happiness is another person's suffering?'

  7. #37
    Outrunner JumpingRyle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    737
    Rep Power
    31

    Default

    I meant juvenile as in undeveloped & simplistic (which it is). The debate is much more complex and definitely not black and white.

    Again, for his point to be at all valid it has to be shown that buyers are actually buying the repro for the ROM. This really has to be determined on a case-by-case basis. Is the seller being deceptive? Is it clear that the translation is available for free online? etc etc

    But I have a feeling that in most cases, buyers are paying for the actual, physical items which the seller has crafted and are aware that the included translation is already free. If people were just after the ROM to play on real hardware, they would fork up the money for an Everdrive or equivalent (which only costs the price of 2 or 3 quality repros).

    Some fan translators (like the guy in the video) really want to treat this like it was back in the day of VHS anime fansubbing. Somebody somewhere would make a fansub which you could get a copy of if you sent a blank VHS and included return postage. Of course, then some jackass would get a hold of it and start re-copying it on his VCR and selling it for profit out of ads in the back of magazines.

    The situation might seem the same with repros of fan translated ROMs, but the key differences are 1) game fan translations are readily available for free and people know where to get them, 2) making a repro costs time and money and buyers are willing to pay for it. Seriously: when else is it morally OK for you to make something yourself but not to pay someone else to do it because you don't have the time or expertise??

    By the way, I have fan-translated manga in the past and while I think it would be shitty for somebody to simply print out the manga and sell it on the street as their own work, I am ALL FOR somebody putting together a nice professionally bound copy with a good cover and selling it for cash (as long as they don't sell out before I can buy one). Again: it's not a black or white issue like the dude in the video wants it to be.

  8. #38
    Road Rasher EmperorIng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    372
    Rep Power
    13

    Default

    I don't have much to add to the, uh, "morality" discussion, but in general, from a legal perspective:

    1) discussion of emulation is all right. For all anyone knows you are playing legal backups of your own games or running tests w/e. So discussions of problems with Kega, new filters, fan translations projects/hacks or whatever is all right.

    2) sales of reproductions just be disallowed if you don't want "illegal rom trading." There are enough venues, thanks to easy google searches, for people who want flash carts or repro carts. However, much like the first point, there's nothing intrinsically wrong with someone asking or troubleshooting about the setup of their Mega Everdrives etc.

  9. #39
    Road Rasher Daria's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Age
    35
    Posts
    278
    Rep Power
    24

    Default

    I used to think reproductions were awesome, but then I realized that they were fairly disrespectful to some people whose work has brought me countless hours of entertainment So they just don't sit kosher with me any more.

    I couldn't care less about the legality of it.
    556 552 557 279 725

  10. #40
    Road Rasher Daria's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Age
    35
    Posts
    278
    Rep Power
    24

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by needler420 View Post
    This is a very good stance on the matter. I have been banned from Digit press for attempting to rid the repro resellers.
    What? That wasn't why you were banned.
    556 552 557 279 725

  11. #41
    Raging in the Streets KnightWarrior's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    California
    Age
    45
    Posts
    3,636
    Rep Power
    33

    Default

    I'm just playing Repros on my PC, Wii and my DS

    Is it still wrong playing Mega Man: Wily Wars on the Genesis on Cart that wasn't meant, How about Star Fox 2 on the SNES, It goes like $70 Loose, Last time I checked it's a Nintendo Game

    I would rather play it for free

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •