Game Sack

[Joe Redifer]

On another note, one interesting "advantage" to the NES Zapper's primitive detection method is that it will actually work on LCD/plasma sets as long as the color/contrast settings are appropriate and there isn't too much lag.

I was wondering about this, actually, but was too lazy to try it. Now I MUST try it, but will remain skeptical until I see for myself. I know the SMS, Saturn and DC guns won't work and supposedly the Menacer and SuperScope won't either.

How would that work? The MD pinout omits support for the phaser diode, doesn't it?

Obviously it is there if a Genesis can run SMS light gun games without issue.

[TmEE]

SMS, MD and Saturn all got same physical interface except SMS has fixed purpose pins, 6 inputs and 1 output, while MD and Saturn can change the direction of pins individually.

Method used in NES lightgun games will only work if there is no delay at all on the LCD. If there's 1 frame delay then it will no longer work.

[Joe Redifer]

Which means the LCD must not do any scaling and must be 480 native resolution.

[kool kitty89]

SMS, MD and Saturn all got same physical interface except SMS has fixed purpose pins, 6 inputs and 1 output, while MD and Saturn can change the direction of pins individually.

Method used in NES lightgun games will only work if there is no delay at all on the LCD. If there's 1 frame delay then it will no longer work.

1 frame delay is unacceptably long and can screw up gameplay too.

I'll need to check again, but I'm almost positive the NES works fine on my Philips SDTV. (it's an amazingly well optimized SD-specific 4:3 LCD from ~2004, all it does is 240p and 480i and with full 60 Hz deinterlacing too -so emulating a true interlaced display almost perfectly . . . at least it looks to be using 2 interlaced pairs for each frame and actually looks like an interlaced CDT as far as the jiggling interlaced lines)
I wish all HDTVs were that good. (or better)
TVs that don't support single field 60 Hz display would really have a problem. (like those deinterlacing to 240p/480i to 480/30p)

It's obviously scaling/interpolating to a much higher res than 640x480 (given the LCD pixel cell size) . . . plus the lack of odd scaling artifacts you'd get by trying to cram an analog signal into a digital frame (the set-up used looks more like composite on an SDTV). It also avoids odd scaling artifacts seen on many HD sets (I haven't properly tested our Sanyo, but I know a number of Samsung and Sony sets are only so-so as far as that goes, and some other brands are really bad -I also know Sanyo tends to be on the cheap end of HD sets, but that doesn't mean their SD support won't be good -I like the flexible aspect/overscan options available by default too )

You probably could have perfect 240/480 line conversion (analog lines are well defined in even composite), but horizontal res is more of a problem. (plus, in my case, it also has to support 16:9 anamorphic, so higher vertical res is necessary to get decent quality in that mode)

Which means the LCD must not do any scaling and must be 480 native resolution.

No, it means the scaling/interpolation must be incredibly fast and optimized such that the delay is little more than on CRTs.

[omp]

Hey Joe, really enjoy these video's mate, don't change the style. I like a bit of shenanigans in the video's, rather than some boring mono-tone Galah waffling on.

[KnightWarrior]

I can't wait til Joe's Controllers Review Part 2

[TmEE]

The NES method can work on longer delay, but it will miss the first target then because when the game looks for it, its not yet shown, and on the next frame when game expects to find 2nd target it will get to see first target window. NES has no means to gather what pixel is being output like MD and SMS can, so to it, it is seeing the 2nd target.

[M4R14NO94]

Watched the latest episode a few days ago.

Didn't disappoint. At all.

[kool kitty89]

The NES method can work on longer delay, but it will miss the first target then because when the game looks for it, its not yet shown, and on the next frame when game expects to find 2nd target it will get to see first target window. NES has no means to gather what pixel is being output like MD and SMS can, so to it, it is seeing the 2nd target.

Nevermind, my TV doesn't work for duck hunt, I guess I remembered wrong. (the picture still looks nice though )

[Joe Redifer]

Latest video!

Retro Gaming on HDTVs and Video Connections.

[Barone]

Superb video, Joe!

People that like stretched image (I mean with the WRONG aspect ratio) suffer from the same disease of those who like to set their sound systems with full treble and no bass: nonsense bad taste!

[TmEE]

Was that board with "game sack" in it used for "the war" ?

nice video, I liked the ending hehe

[Joe Redifer]

Same board, yep.

[Gamer101]

Latest video!

Retro Gaming on HDTVs and Video Connections.

I skimmed (literally watched about 30 seconds total) through this vid and got your message, "old console gaming looks terrible on HDTVs". I find it curious that your test example was not only a garbage brand but was insanely huge. Panasonics 54" VT-25 does any resolution very well. Next time you do a test, do it with a quality set lest you end up with a silly and very biased vid like this one.

Oh, lol, and in regard to your silly lag comment, the VT-25 has 16 ms of lag which is near imperceptible. I can notice it but it's not that different from playing with 0 ms lag on a CRT. I always thought it would be a huge difference, but luckily 16 ms and under is truly playable.

[gamevet]

I was wondering about this, actually, but was too lazy to try it. Now I MUST try it, but will remain skeptical until I see for myself. I know the SMS, Saturn and DC guns won't work and supposedly the Menacer and SuperScope won't either.

They won't work on a HD CRT either.