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Thread: The Sega Saturn Mega Thread

  1. #796
    Master of Shinobi Thenewguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zz Badnusty View Post
    DO YOU HAVE AN ARCADE IN YOUR HOME? I doubt it. then those Saturn ports are the exclusive home releases.
    The point is that Gamevet was talking about games which were completely exclusive to the system, I don't mind adding arcade ports, that adds to the Dreamcast list of exclusives too.

    In regards to having an arcade in my home, no, but I have a crappy PC, and MAME, and together they sure as hell play Marvel Superheroes better than the Saturn ever did, which is the main reason why I don't think home exclusives should be counted as exactly the same as complete exclusives, arcade ports are rarely the best way to play a title (obviously there's a whole load of exceptions to the rule on Saturn, but generally its correct). Console exclusives (games also on PC) are also worth mentioning in their own way too.

  2. #797
    End of line.. Raging in the Streets gamevet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thenewguy View Post
    Being that The Saturn version of Bubble Bobble isn't very well respected at all amongst the community I did a quick check of a video on Youtube.

    After mere seconds of watching the video of the Saturn port its clear as day to me that its not "arcade perfect" the jumping is obviously wrong (shooting you up like a rocket), and the falling speed is clearly at double the speed of the arcade version so at the very least the movement is totally wrong.
    Not at all. You can count the time between the rise and fall in both versions and you'll not see a difference. Your eyes are deceiving you.




    The Saturn version isn't arcade perfect, the later versions are so they make it redundant, the SMS version was the best home port of the time in which the game was first out, which makes it notable from a historic standpoint, its also pretty accurate gameplay wise, and has loads of extras not in the arcade version, which still make it worth checking out even now for fans of the series, its not some also ran Saturn port lost in the masses of unnotable inaccurate, forgettable ports of the game out there.
    You've overlooked the Amiga version.


    and virtually everything ported from Dreamcast to PS2 ended up inferior (jaggies, missing lighting and shadow effects, and often even texture quality)
    Sure, those early ports weren't great, but then you had superior versions of Space Channel 5: Special Edition, Resident Evil: CV X and DOA2. You also had DC ports of REZ and Culdcept Saga that were just as solid as the DC version.

    I noticed you didn't bring up the ports that were available on the Gamecube and Xbox. The Xbox had a port of Shenmue 2, plus a new version of Crazy Taxi, with Crazy Taxi 3: High Roller. High Roller includes the levels from the previous 2 titles, plus Glitter Oasis.

    Also the games ported from the arcades were often not actually ports (many used the same hardware as the Dreamcast) and as such are literally arcade perfect (and in fact many had additions too), Saturn arcade ports range from being better than arcade (such as Hyper Duel) to being respectable (such as Marvel Superheroes)
    How many Naomi titles actually made it to the Dreamcast?

    Street Fighter III was a great looking title on the DC, but many fighting purists point out that the DC version has input lag.
    Last edited by gamevet; 06-24-2011 at 01:37 AM.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



  3. #798
    What? Shir is gone? Raging in the Streets StarMist's Avatar
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    Perhaps this discussion ought to be moved to its own thread, The Sega Saturn Mega Squabble Thread. How long before we're comparing Saturn game versions to those on the RCA Studio III?

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    End of line.. Raging in the Streets gamevet's Avatar
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    I'm pretty much done with this. You can blame it on the fools that derailed this thread with talk about Dreamcast being a better gaming experience; I didn't help by fueling that fire. It's their loss, if they can't afford the quality titles for the Sega Saturn. And to call it's library inferior to that of the DC is pure ignorance.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zz Badnusty View Post
    I certainly don't want to diminish your point, as I wholly agree with you, but a bunch of those you listed are available on other platforms.
    Dragon Force, Nights, and Decathlete are on JPN PS2; .
    Dragon Force is not in English, so that pretty much eliminates that title from the port list.
    Last edited by gamevet; 06-24-2011 at 08:13 AM.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



  5. #800
    Master of Shinobi Team Andromeda's Avatar
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    Sorry, but someone saying "largely made up of ex Panzer Dragoon staff" doesn't indicate one person to me, so I would imagine you've missed something, two more of my books/magazines also mention Rez as being made by Panzer people
    Smilebit was the studio that was largely made up of Ex Panzer Dragoon staff , not UGA (where more members of TA joined Sonic Team than UGA), Ex Panzer staff worked on a number of projects included Victory Goal , SEGA always liked to move staff around

    I've played both to death, so I know they play very similarly to each othe
    And what makes you think I haven't ? . There share a lot in common , but both feel and look very different to play.

    The Dreamcast may not have as many "pure" exclusives as the Saturn, but it does have some Jet Set Radio, Toy Commander, Metropolis Street Racer, Ooga Booga, Record of Lodoss War, Shenmue, Tokyo Extreme Racer 2, Armada, Daytona USA 2001, Elemental Gimmick Gear etc
    In a few months you can cross off JSR from that list, when it comes to XBLA.

    But what it does have which the Saturn doesn't, is a mass of superior multi-platform titles, virtually everything released during the PS1 era was at least marginally improved for DC (with frame rate improvements and the odd new effect added), and virtually everything ported from Dreamcast to PS2 ended up inferior (jaggies, missing lighting and shadow effects, and often even texture quality)
    ? That's being rather silly and rather unfair and no not always were the DC versions improved as Street Fighter Zero 3 show and games like Ecco looked better on the PS2.

    Half these games aren't exclusives, they're arcade ports, if you want to include arcade ports then Dreamcast has Zero Gunner 2, Under Defeat, Mars Matrix, Giga Wing, Giga Wing 2, Border Down, Rival Schools 2, Cannon Spike, Tech Romancer, Confidential Mission, and Jojo's Bizarre Adventure (from what I've heard, confusingly the PS1 "Jojo's Bizarre Adventure" is actual Jojo's Venture, with some extras, whilst the Dreamcast version is based on the 2nd version of the arcade game, kind of like comparing Street Fighter II SNES, with Champion Edition on Mega Drive)
    You are just out to bash the Saturn for the sake it aren't you? The DC library is full of Arcade and NA@MI ports/conversions

    Are you really that obtuse that you dont get the concept of system exclusivity
    ?. You look and compare systems and games that were around at the time, not to what is available today . Otherwise no-one would have bothered with the Mega Drive or Master System in the full knowledge that most of their better games would end up in classical packs or On-Line downloads

    I'm sure I remember Rayman 2 on the DS getting slammed hard to
    Every reviews I saw praised the game and said it was 2nd only to Mario 64

    In regards to having an arcade in my home, no, but I have a crappy PC, and MAME, and together they sure as hell play Marvel Superheroes better than the Saturn ever did, which is the main reason why I don't think home exclusives should be counted as exactly the same as complete exclusives, arcade ports are rarely the best way to play a title (obviously there's a whole load of exceptions to the rule on Saturn, but generally its correct). Console exclusives (games also on PC) are also worth mentioning in their own way too.
    Again being very very unfair, just picking and bashing for the shake of it
    At the time of Marvel shipping you had a just a few options (MAME wasn't really around or could run the likes of MSH) so it was either the PS or Saturn or the being Arcade board and game for Marvel SH. So just comparing the home versions the Saturn version was the closest , controlled the best and was best option people had at the time.

    This talk of MAME ECT is utter tosh..... If you think like that people would have never bought any Master System, Mega Drive, SNES, Arcade port/Conversions safe in the knowledge that years down the line , they'll all come to MAME , In fact they wouldn't have bought any of the games or the system because years down the line they could play that all for free on MAME and that goes for all the consoles and computers like the Amgia, ST, ZX Spectrum ECT...


    Lets get real
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  6. #801
    Master of Shinobi Thenewguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamevet View Post
    Not at all. You can count the time between the rise and fall in both versions and you'll not see a difference. Your eyes are deceiving you.
    They're jumping too high on Saturn too.

    Quote Originally Posted by gamevet View Post
    You've overlooked the Amiga version.
    No, the Amiga and Atari ST version are completely inaccurate, I feel like doing a face palm right now, but I can see that this is an easy mistake for someone to make who's not very experienced with the game.

    Those versions don't have item counters, their items appear completely at random, which removes most of the tactics of the game.

    Worse still they have EXTEND bubble appearing on levels with draft airflow all the time, which removes all incentives for combo-ing enemies, there's no point in learning the airflow of each stage if there's no point in combo-ing enemies.

    So basically all the tactics of the game are absent from those versions, unlike the Master System version, in fact even the NES version has the item counters, its just missing some of the items (I think one of the candy's was missing).

    Quote Originally Posted by gamevet View Post
    Sure, those early ports weren't great, but then you had superior versions of Space Channel 5: Special Edition, Resident Evil: CV X and DOA2.

    You also had PS2 ports of REZ and Culdcept Saga that were just as solid as the DC version.
    I don't know about Code Veronica (I've heard its better on Dreamcast), but I own Dead or Alive 2 on both and that game is definitely arguable, in fact as far as I'm concerned its definitely better on Dreamcast because the aliasing and low resolution on the PS2 version makes it look like ass most of the time.

    Dead or Alive 2 is actually a Naomi game from what I can remember, so the Dreamcast version is arcade perfect, also, if you're wondering about some of the extra stuff like costumes for the PS2 version, the Japanese Dreamcast version of Dead or Alive 2 (which came out last) had all those additions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    You are just out to bash the Saturn for the sake it aren't you? The DC library is full of Arcade and NA@MI ports/conversions
    This comment, and all your following comments on the subject are completely irrelevant, I said those games were arcade ports, they are arcade ports, that is all I said and it is a statement of fact

    I never said the Dreamcast didn't have arcade ports on it, I never compared the arcade ports of the systems, bar to say that Dreamcast has a better ratio of true arcade perfect arcade ports.

    Quote Originally Posted by StarMist View Post
    Perhaps this discussion ought to be moved to its own thread, The Sega Saturn Mega Squabble Thread. How long before we're comparing Saturn game versions to those on the RCA Studio III?
    This thread is the Sega Saturn Mega Sqaubble Thread
    Last edited by Thenewguy; 06-24-2011 at 02:20 PM.

  7. #802
    I remain nonsequitur Shining Hero sheath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118 View Post
    Hold R+X+Y+Z at the title screen and Select Arcade Mode. A new car should be added called "DAYTONA". It's the original Hornet and uses the same model and textures from the original port.
    Sorry, I missed this reply in the wall o' bitching. That's awesome, I'm going to try it today!

  8. #803
    Master of Shinobi Zz Badnusty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StarMist View Post
    Perhaps this discussion ought to be moved to its own thread, The Sega Saturn Mega Squabble Thread. How long before we're comparing Saturn game versions to those on the RCA Studio III?
    Right. This thread, in its entirety, is one of the biggest pieces of shit on the internet right now.

  9. #804
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    I haven't played the original saturn Daytona USA in years, (owned the MEGAWIDESCREEN Pal-Land release), and I've only got the Jap CE edition at the mo, any tips to improve the handling more toward the original? Should I make the steering softer or harder in the options? Many reviews and passing comment on the JAP version suggest you can tweak the handling closer to the original but never say specifically the best option for the steering.

    I'd just get the original out and compare handling but I don't have it anymore.

  10. #805
    ESWAT Veteran TrekkiesUnite118's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    Sorry, I missed this reply in the wall o' bitching. That's awesome, I'm going to try it today!
    It doesn't seem to be a very well known thing to be honest. Theres almost not footage of it anywhere from what I can tell. I honestly wouldn't have thought to try and look for how to play as that car had I not noticed it in this video I stumbled across on youtube:



    Skip to about 5:35 to see the footage.

  11. #806
    Master of Shinobi Team Andromeda's Avatar
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    I never said the Dreamcast didn't have arcade ports on it
    Yet you keep on bring it up all the time for the Saturn, overlooking the fact that the DC relied far more on Arcade ports/conversions to make up for the lack of 3rd party support than the Saturn At the end of the day who cares if it's an Arcade port or not ?
    A classic game is a classic game not matter if it started life out in the Arcades, case in point Strider. I really couldn't careless if it was a Arcade port, if it was on out on other consoles or other machines . All I cared about was the MD version and imo it was the best home version (at the time) I could afford to play, and that's what counts

    Brining this talk of MAME up is just bullshit of the highest order . If we all think like you, none of us would have ever bothered with consoles or the likes of C44, Amiga, ST, ZX Spectrum ECT inthe 1st place, We're would have all waited for the PC costs to drop and for MAME to come and so we could could play all the classics for free , couldn't we.....


    Now if you want to talk and have a debate about games and consoles lets keep it to that, and compare the games and consoles to what was around in their time line , not what would happen years down the line more so with MAME.

    I don't know about Code Veronica (I've heard its better on Dreamcast), but I own Dead or Alive 2 on both and that game is definitely arguable, in fact as far as I'm concerned its definitely better on Dreamcast because the aliasing and low resolution on the PS2 version makes it look like ass most of the time.

    Dead or Alive 2 is actually a Naomi game from what I can remember, so the Dreamcast version is arcade perfect, also, if you're wondering about some of the extra stuff like costumes for the PS2 version, the Japanese Dreamcast version of Dead or Alive 2 (which came out last) had all those additions.
    Both CV and DOA II look better on the DC (more so with DOA II) REZ moves at double the speed of the DC ver( though the DC version controls the best imo) ECCO looks better better on the PS2 though. In the end though most games developed from the ground up for one platform will in a lot of cases look worse when ported to another (even if the platform is more powerful)
    Last edited by Team Andromeda; 06-25-2011 at 03:27 AM.
    Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
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  12. #807
    I remain nonsequitur Shining Hero sheath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118 View Post
    It doesn't seem to be a very well known thing to be honest. Theres almost not footage of it anywhere from what I can tell. I honestly wouldn't have thought to try and look for how to play as that car had I not noticed it in this video I stumbled across on youtube:

    6jageBnah68

    Skip to about 5:35 to see the footage.
    Man, I'm going to have to spend some quality time playing Daytona CE now. That really makes it the definitive home version in my mind. I used to talk to Greg quite a bit, I'm not sure where he frequents since he moved from RGVS though.

    Since the thread has moved on to comparing the Dreamcast and PS2 now, I had a few of old videos on the matter.

    Code Veronica:






    I also own both versions of Ecco DoF and it seems to me that the PS2 port has significantly altered and lower color texture maps.
    Last edited by sheath; 06-25-2011 at 09:48 AM.

  13. #808
    End of line.. Raging in the Streets gamevet's Avatar
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    The PS2 version looks darker and in the last video the bricks stand out more on the PS2 version. They're still pretty close, and since Code Veronica X has added content, I'd think you'd go for that version.

    I still have my PS2 game in it's sealed case.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



  14. #809
    ESWAT Veteran TrekkiesUnite118's Avatar
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    How does the Gamecube version of Code Veronica X compare in all of this?
    Last edited by TrekkiesUnite118; 06-25-2011 at 02:36 PM.

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    Master of Shinobi Thenewguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    At the end of the day who cares if it's an Arcade port or not?
    Who are you asking this? I don't care, I never said I did care, all I said was that an arcade port isn't exactly the same as an exclusive.

    For all intents and purposes an arcade port was as good as an exclusive at the time but these days there are extenuating factors which may now make them less interesting than actual, pure exclusives.

    Apart from that though, ridiculously late ports (over 5 years later than the other home ports) which still aren't arcade perfect are pretty much worthless in my eyes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    Bringing this talk of MAME up is just bullshit of the highest order. If we all think like you, none of us would have ever bothered with consoles or the likes of C44, Amiga, ST, ZX Spectrum ECT inthe 1st place, We're would have all waited for the PC costs to drop and for MAME to come and so we could could play all the classics for free , couldn't we.....
    I love it when people do this, go off on their own soap box tangent which has no relevance to anything I've actually said

    There are two statements I made

    1. Battle Garegga, and the rest of the listed games are arcade ports
    2. Arcade ports aren't exactly the same as pure exclusives due to the existence of MAME, and the original arcade machines.

    Which are you arguing with?!?! both are statements of fact, not opinion. Its not my opinion that Marvel Superheroes can be better played on MAME, whilst Burning Rangers can only be played on Saturn (or maybe a Saturn emulator which plays it exactly the same anyway), with no other alternatives out there.

    I immediately said in my 1st post in regards to this that I personally didn't care about adding the (concurrent) arcade ports, and I listed Dreamcast home exclusives in response.

    Quote Originally Posted by gamevet View Post
    The PS2 version looks darker and in the last video the bricks stand out more on the PS2 version.
    I thought the textures on the last video may have looked slightly clearer on Dreamcast to be honest, but the video's aren't high quality enough to tell (Sorry Sheath) mainly the only really noticeable change between the two in the videos is the colour and contrast differences.

    The PS2 has different light for the beam as well.

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