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Thread: SEGA CD simple audio tech question

  1. #16
    King of the Ring WCPO Agent ThugsRook's Avatar
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    ive been testing Sonic CD with "NOGAP corrected MP3s" (as described above), and there are no signs that removing the 2 seconds of PREGAP is causing any trouble for KEGA. track looping obviously now works perfectly with just 1 second of loop gap insted of 3 seconds.

    so far its safe to assume that the tracks arent "too short" this way.


  2. #17
    King of the Ring WCPO Agent ThugsRook's Avatar
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    ALT METHOD:

    to RIP "corrected" audio tracks from real CDs...
    your CD ripper should have an option called "remove silence" or "remove silence from both ends of tracks". this will essentially do the same thing as described above, removing the 2 seconds of postgap.

    testing has still not shown any problems with these corrected tracks at all.

    since KEGA/GENS cant fix this... (at least not in MP3/WAV format) ALL of our previous RIPs (bin+cue, iso+mp3, iso+wav) are wrong
    Last edited by ThugsRook; 10-21-2011 at 03:09 PM.

  3. #18
    Hero of Algol kool kitty89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThugsRook View Post
    ALT METHOD:

    to RIP "corrected" audio tracks from real CDs...
    your CD ripper should have an option called "remove silence" or "remove silence from both ends of tracks". this will essentially do the same thing as described above, removing the 2 seconds of postgap.

    testing has still not shown any problems with these corrected tracks at all.

    since KEGA/GENS cant fix this... (at least not in MP3/WAV format) ALL of our previous RIPs (bin+cue, iso+mp3, iso+wav) are wrong
    Do MP3/WAV to CD-DA converters (for burning the images to discs) also add pre/post gaps? (so the pre-existing gaps will be extended)
    6 days older than SEGA Genesis
    -------------
    Quote Originally Posted by evilevoix View Post
    Dude it’s the bios that marries the 16 bit and the 8 bit that makes it 24 bit. If SNK released their double speed bios revision SNK would have had the world’s first 48 bit machine, IDK how you keep ignoring this.
    Quote Originally Posted by evilevoix View Post
    the PCE, that system has no extra silicone for music, how many resources are used to make music and it has less sprites than the MD on screen at once but a larger sprite area?

  4. #19
    King of the Ring WCPO Agent ThugsRook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kool kitty89 View Post
    Do MP3/WAV to CD-DA converters (for burning the images to discs) also add pre/post gaps? (so the pre-existing gaps will be extended)
    they shouldnt, but ya never know w/o checking them at least once.

    CUE sheets (for burning) would use the PREGAP syntax for tracks w/o silence. (which is the way to go IMO)


  5. #20
    King of the Ring WCPO Agent ThugsRook's Avatar
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    after months of experimenting and bug testing, i am happy to announce that i can now completely re-sync and optimize a SEGA CD (Sonic CD specifically) for emulator usage within BIN+CUE format

    ...Sonic CD's title screen is finally sync'ed to the "flash", and ALL lopping tracks restart immediately. (within 0.25 seconds)
    i was even able to fix the 3 broken tracks (garbage noises) in the JP version.

    obviously i cant post roms here for you guys to check it out, and i know not many are even interested in this, but feel free to msg me if anyone needs more info.

    this project is now completed and successful...
    im outta here

  6. #21
    King of the Ring WCPO Agent ThugsRook's Avatar
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    oh chit, i forgot to mention...

    if KEGA would recognize (Bin+Cue) "INDEX 00" information as "END OF TRACK", looping tracks would be fixed.
    some Cue sheets would need editing (very very easy), but Bin files would not need to be re-ripped.


  7. #22
    ESWAT Veteran Chilly Willy's Avatar
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    Uh - INDEX 00 is the START of the track, not the end.

  8. #23
    King of the Ring WCPO Agent ThugsRook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chilly Willy View Post
    Uh - INDEX 00 is the START of the track, not the end.
    not to the emulator.
    it ignores all INDEX 00 info. INDEX 01 is start of track and end of previous track.

    thats my point, INDEX 00 info could be useful as an end of track indicator... to the emulator.

    (remember ~ we arent talking about real discs here)

  9. #24
    Whuff! Outrunner Jax184's Avatar
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    How would that affect the sound on real hardware if someone were to burn the result? Wouldn't it be better to fix the emulators, rather than modify the images floating around?

  10. #25
    King of the Ring WCPO Agent ThugsRook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jax184 View Post
    How would that affect the sound on real hardware if someone were to burn the result? Wouldn't it be better to fix the emulators, rather than modify the images floating around?
    they would not be compatible with real hardware, or even as a real cd on emu.
    they would only be valid as a playable bin+cue.

    this could of course also be done in iso+mp3 format too, but my point was to be able to also do it in a lossless bin+cue format

    yes, fixing the emu would be best. but im pretty sure they already knew about this problem way back when they first implemented SCD support... know what i mean?

    as it stands right now, i have to modify the cue and the bin to get the proper results.
    if the emus would recognize INDEX 00 info i could do all the "emu repairs" straight from the little 5kb cue sheet, no need to mod the bin files.

    or again, we could just use iso+modified mp3s and shut the fuck up about it

  11. #26
    Master of Shinobi Sik's Avatar
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    Stupid question, are you sure all emulators are doing it wrong and not just Fusion? Because so far I only saw you complain about Fusion =P

    And yeah, there's no excuse to mess with the disc images, the emulator is the one that should be fixed.

  12. #27
    King of the Ring WCPO Agent ThugsRook's Avatar
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    well you "real hardware" guys tend to think those disc images are for you, they arent (LOL)

    GENS is crap. what else is there?

    i agree, dont want to mess with the disc images on a public basis. file size is too large to redistribute. would be much simpler/easier if i could do everything from the cue sheet and offer those as updates.

    i doubt they can or are willing to fix the SCD problem cause theyd have to fix it 3 different ways... real CDs, bin+cue, and iso+mp3.

    ISO+MP3: ppl can rip their own fixed mp3 versions (from disc) as instructed in post #17. its very easy and works perfectly for all games, but you have to have a physical cd.

    BIN+CUE: can also be correctly ripped (to ISO+MP3) as instructed in post #13, but it requires CUE sheet editing knowledge, ISObuster knowledge, and is way more complicated. but it does also work perfectly for all games.

    ill prolly end up offering a Sonic CD MP3 update just so i can show something for all the effort ive put into this project.

    maybe a short test vid ~ of something

    Last edited by ThugsRook; 12-19-2011 at 04:28 PM.

  13. #28
    ESWAT Veteran Chilly Willy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThugsRook View Post
    not to the emulator.
    it ignores all INDEX 00 info. INDEX 01 is start of track and end of previous track.

    thats my point, INDEX 00 info could be useful as an end of track indicator... to the emulator.

    (remember ~ we arent talking about real discs here)
    Okay, that makes more sense.

    I was thinking about it from the real hardware point of view... mainly because that's what I've been dealing with lately.

  14. #29
    Master of Shinobi Sik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThugsRook View Post
    well you "real hardware" guys tend to think those disc images are for you, they arent (LOL)
    Considering how Fusion still has the desync issues with the usual dumps, I'd say the disc images aren't "fixed" really and it's still easier to just fix the emulator. Besides, there is no excuse for low level emulators to not behave like real hardware =P

  15. #30
    King of the Ring WCPO Agent ThugsRook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sik View Post
    Considering how Fusion still has the desync issues with the usual dumps, I'd say the disc images aren't "fixed" really and it's still easier to just fix the emulator. Besides, there is no excuse for low level emulators to not behave like real hardware =P
    its not just the dumps, real SEGA CDs are also "desynced" as you say.
    youd think at least the real CDs would emulate perfectly. but no, its the same as using data files... with disc noise... and disc lag

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