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Thread: Genesis games that had a definitive version on Sega CD

  1. #46
    Raging in the Streets KnightWarrior's Avatar
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    How about Samurai Shodown??

    I like the Sega CD version

  2. #47
    Hero of Algol
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    Quote Originally Posted by KnightWarrior View Post
    How about Samurai Shodown??

    I like the Sega CD version
    Well, the Sega CD version, unlike the Genesis one, has the same moves of the arcade and the animation quality of the main characters is at least on par with the 3DO version. The pre-fight announcements have the complete names of the fighters, while the 3DO version uses shortened samples.
    The text and font used not in game is also closer to the original and far superior to the Genesis version. The in game fonts of the Genesis version are closer to the original though. But I think the good parts are just those...

    The in-game part has less samples than the Genesis version and the quality of such samples are also clearly inferior to the Genesis version, believe me.
    The game feels kinda quiet in the Sega CD. The loading times are awful IMO (just compare it with Eternal Champions).
    And there are many other minor details that even the Genesis version does better than the Sega CD one.

    Well, what's the final impression?
    The Sega CD version plays clearly better than the Genesis version (thanks to the arcade moves, a bit more sprites of animation and almost no slowdown). However it's not a faithful port of the original game by any means and in many details it is less faithful than the Genesis version.

    Use this video comparison by sheath (using real hardware):



    Some segments of my private discussions and analysis with sheath:
    From : agostinhobaroners
    To : sheath
    Date : 2011-10-05 11:57
    Title : Samurai Shodwon analysis
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "One of the things I noticed was how clear the Genesis samples are, they put SFII to shame. Also, the sprite coloring is phenomenal! I just wish it had all of the Arcade moves, I have a really hard time beating Hanzo without Haomaru's fierce strike."

    If you pay enough attention you'll notice that the Genesis version samples are, most of the time, clearer than the Sega CD version!!! Sega CD has a very very tiny sample memory (just 64KB) and I think they had to use very low quality samples there to fit in the small space available... Also, here are the major differences that I've noticed:

    0)SNES version is laughable, pure crap, forget about it...

    1)Genesis version is missing the highscores screen.
    2)Genesis version is missing the pre-fight announcer samples, round announcer samples, winner announcer samples... Some fighters samples used at the end of the rounds were simplified/reused other samples.
    3)Genesis intro lack the Haomaru's scene and the narration of the text.
    4)As you said, Haomaru's fierce strike is missing, but, please, help me, what else is missing?
    5)Sega CD version is missing the round and begin samples, and the referee. It completely ruins the game atmosphere IMO.
    6)Genesis version is missing the post-fight cutscenes. The Sega CD version seems to be static, lame!
    7)3DO version is missing the background music during the map localization and pre-fight announcement (X vs Y) screen. The round and begin samples are very very muffled, but the rest seems OK at least...
    8)The Sega CD map screen has been changed, lame! The Genesis version is almost identical to the 3DO version.
    9)Genesis version has an impressive amount of animation frames, it's hard to notice differences between this version and 3DO. The sprite size is a little smaller though...
    10)Genesis version special bars are more similar to the original than the Sega CD version (lame again!).
    11)The colors of the text font of the Genesis version are closer to the original than the Sega CD version (more lame!).
    ... TO BE CONTINUED

    Saurus did the Genesis/Mega Drive port. AFAIK they were a subdivision of SNK, so I think it explains why the Genesis version has this feeling of faithfulness that Sega CD version (ported by FunCom (?????)) lacks.
    However, there are several little content parts missing due to the fuckin' 24MBit cartridge limitation imposed by Sega of Japan (suckers!)... Here's where I'm trying to help... I want to add all the missing samples, including the narration in the intro (I know, I'm crazy) and possibly some graphical elements... The highscores screen must be added....

    ================================================== ==============================
    From : agostinhobaroners
    To : sheath
    Date : 2011-10-05 12:53
    Title : Re: Samurai Shodwon analysis
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by sheath
    Hmm, I'm kind of a gameplay nut and I played Samurai Shodown extensively in the Arcades back in the day. In this respect the Sega CD and 3DO games are nearly identical to the NEO GEO game except for the load times. I also appreciate that the Sega CD and 3DO games have the original sprites, minus Earthquake on the Sega CD version. Honestly I cannot think of any reason why Earthquake wasn't included in either Sega versions, it would have only required two sprites instead of one big one and plenty of other games use segmented bosses that look great. Hell I think Streets of Rage 2 uses two sprites for every character. The Genesis and SNES games are similarly crippled in gameplay by the lack of the real fierce attack, at least for Haomaru. I have never played as any other character so I cannot comment on changes to their gameplay.

    The SNES game on default settings is incredibly easy, the Genesis, Sega CD and 3DO games are very difficult by default. I couldn't get past Hanzo in the Genesis game, probably because I depend too much on that fierce sword strike (it has a very long reach and is very strong).
    ================================================== ==============================
    From : agostinhobaroners
    To : sheath
    Date : 2011-10-05 13:32
    Title : Re: Samurai Shodwon analysis
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The Sega CD version has some advantages over the 3DO in terms of samples. Pay attention to the VS pre-fight screen.
    In the Sega CD version it says the full name of the fighter like with Kyoshiro. The 3DO version just says the last name for what I've noticed.

    3DO samples sound interpolated IMO. I prefer the unfiltered Sega CD ones too, but they are a little in the low quality sound IMO. Heck, the Sega CD sounchip is much better than the Genny/MD one for sample playback...
    But the Genesis version sounds better in some occasions, and it's using 8Khz samples. After Burner II uses 4Khz samples via PSG and MK II uses 15khz samples (in a similar way of Samurai Showdown, but with a better driver that uses PCM samples to improve its already great soundtrack quality).

    ================================================== ==============================
    From : agostinhobaroners
    To : sheath
    Date : 2011-10-05 18:05
    Title : Re: Samurai Shodwon analysis
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The Sega CD version lacks the "VS" sprite in the Map Screen, and it completely lack all announcer sample during the fight (not only in the beginning).

    A more minimalist point is:
    Sega CD version has more colors on the background, right? It's clear...
    BUT those colors are lacking in some special movements. Example: Kyoshiro's special. In the Genesis or 3DO version it creates like a big vertical firestorm around him. It has colors like red, yellow... In the Sega CD version it's just gray and white! See why I hate FunCom's port? So many inconsistencies...

    OTOH, Sega CD version has the original sprites and almost all animation stuff... Again, Kyoshiro's sprites are a little bit different in the Genesis version. His idle animation is like: 1)going up/down + little hair movement + arm movement. The arm movement is lacking in the Genesis version...

    Also, some just-before-1st round-begins animations are lacking in the Sega CD and Genesis ports (God damn it! Even SNES port has those animation). They're little funny animations that really interfere in the game's atmosphere IMO.
    Furthermore, in the Genesis version the characters are already showing there idle animations befor the referee begins the fight... In the original and CD versions they are freeze before the "begin", and it should be like that (damn!).

    Finally, I just love the Genesis version options, with 8 different difficult levels, allowing you to turn off the items (I hate them) and everything else. Also, it has some really good extra options in the VS mode...

    Did you notice those details?

    ================================================== ==============================
    From : agostinhobaroners
    To : sheath
    Date : 2011-10-06 00:13
    Title : Re: Samurai Shodwon analysis
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Regular block? Or that when you have to smash the button faster than the opponent to not lose your weapon?

    ================================================== ==============================
    From : agostinhobaroners
    To : sheath
    Date : 2011-10-06 00:15
    Title : Re: Samurai Shodwon analysis
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Sega CD sample of regular block is very muffled and sounds strange... The Genesis sample is identical to the 3DO one.

    ================================================== ==============================
    From : agostinhobaroners
    To : sheath
    Date : 2011-10-06 00:24
    Title : Re: Samurai Shodwon analysis
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The Sega CD can play several samples at once... "The Mega-CD adds the Ricoh RF5C164 chip, which gives 8 extra sound channels, all capable of sampled sounds". I'm pretty sure that at least 2 or 4 at the same time. I don't know about 8...

    Mega Drive has just 1 mono DAC channel (when set to 1 DAC + 5 FM). What Capcom did was to multiplex the channel to allow 2 samples at "once". The results, you know... BAD!
    Last edited by Barone; 02-16-2012 at 12:05 AM.

  3. #48
    Child in Time Nameless One Antony's Avatar
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    The Terminator: It's a pity they didn't release this enhanced version on a cart. Outside the FMV cutscenes (which looked ugly back then, and have dated even worse now), and the CD audio, this game has nothing I think that couldn't be done in a Genesis game. No pseudo-3D levels that use scaling like the racing scenes in Batman Returns and Cliffhanger. Also it's a bit similar to Robocop Vs. Terminator, but not quite as good.

  4. #49
    Beat Em Ups Master of Shinobi cowboyscowboys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antony View Post
    The Terminator: It's a pity they didn't release this enhanced version on a cart. Outside the FMV cutscenes (which looked ugly back then, and have dated even worse now), and the CD audio, this game has nothing I think that couldn't be done in a Genesis game. No pseudo-3D levels that use scaling like the racing scenes in Batman Returns and Cliffhanger. Also it's a bit similar to Robocop Vs. Terminator, but not quite as good.
    The Genesis version was only a 4-meg cart. It's pretty clear they could have made it 8-Meg but then the Terminator on the Sega CD would just be another CD quality music enhanced Genesis game.

  5. #50
    Master of Shinobi TheSonicRetard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by agostinhobaroners View Post
    There's also some extra info regarding Chuck Rock II's Sega CD vs CD32 comparison that emerged in a discussion with TheSonicRetard in other thread (He is talking about the CD32 version):
    Just wanted to say that I went through and actually played through both games simultaneously (I'd beat one level on the sega CD, then change my TV input to the CD32 and play the same level) a few weeks ago, and the differences are way bigger than I first thought. There are a few stages that aren't in the Sega CD version that are in the CD32 version, and the stages that are in the Sega CD version feature very slight level edits which make them easier. Overall, the Sega CD version is much easier - for example, most enemies take 2 hits to kill in the CD32 version, with a few taking 4, while on the Sega CD, most enemies take 1 hit to kill, with a few taking 2.

    The background differences are way, way more noticeable when seeing the two version back to back. I actually wasn't giving the sega cd version enough credit. The backgrounds feature parallax and multiple layers on the Sega CD, along with generally better art. The CD32 version, by comparison, is just 1 big flat layer. Also, due to Amiga restrictions, a lot of foreground objects are the same color, while on the Sega CD they're multi-color.

    A few stages are renamed as well, due to missing features. For example, there is one stage where you swing on bananas in this jungle. On the CD32, it's called something like "Monkey Business" while on the Sega CD it's called "Butterfly Park." The reason for the name change in this instance is because the titular butterfly sprites aren't in the CD32 version - the level is otherwise empty.

    The water park level has a terrible background in the CD32 version (while the Sega CD has a forgettable, but not bad background) but the CD32 version has multiple layers of waterfalls in the background. The Sega CD version, by contrast, only has 1 layer for waterfalls, and they're used very sporadically. The waterfalls will actually overlap in areas on the CD32 version.

    There are also a bunch of small differences. The Sega CD version shows this weird picture of Chuck Jr between each level during the level name intro, while the CD32 version shows a black screen. In the bonus levels, if you have your... dog? eat all the apples, he will throw up in the CD32 version, while he simply wags his tail in the Sega CD version. Lots of enemies behave differently - the pissed off moms with the trail of kids behind them for instance. In the CD32 version, after killing the mom, the babies will attack you - hitting them makes them cry (and thus defeats them, but they never go away) while on the Sega CD version, if you kill the mother, they'll just aimlessly wander around, randomly crying, but can never hurt you. The fire blowing guys in hazmat suits change colors when they blow fire in the sega cd version (their suit is white normally, then golden when they're blowing fire) while they're always white in the CD32 version. Several bosses are notably more difficult on the CD32 version, especially the first one which bites the ground - he takes like 4 times the number of hits to kill. Also, tying in to what I said about level differences - this boss battle takes place at the end of a level in the sega cd version, while it is its own separate level in the CD32 version (and thus, structured a tiny bit differently).

    I would say, from a technical stand-point, the Sega CD version definitely trumps the CD32 version, but it's not a world of difference. The two ports are comparable. Whether you prefer one version over the other in terms of difficulty and gameplay is up to you. I personally like both equally, for different reasons. The CD32 version remains one of the best games on the system.
    A retarded Sonic.

  6. #51
    HNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNG Raging in the Streets Moirai's Avatar
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    Are there any games that are actually worse on sega CD than on Genesis?

  7. #52
    Hero of Algol
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    Golden Axe, Revenge of Shinobi and SOR 1 on the compilation disc were changed for the worse IMO. Golden Axe lost the 2-player mode and the games gained new awful voice samples that sound totally out of place.

    Some people also prefer the Genesis Flashback for the original rotoscoped cutscenes.

    Those are the ones in my mind right now.
    Last edited by Barone; 09-05-2015 at 02:03 PM.

  8. #53
    What? Shir is gone? Raging in the Streets StarMist's Avatar
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    Better on CD =

    Flink
    . It's historically broken on Mega Drive.

    Worse on CD =

    Spiderman vs Kingpin: awful music and annoying extras.
    Earthworm Jim: the added level is mediocre, the music sounds inferior, and the extra touches added throughout the game are chintzy.
    Sol Feace = god awful slowdown and flicker.

    add Mickey Mania = hearing his voice over and over is nettlesome and ruins the music.
    Last edited by StarMist; 03-14-2012 at 10:33 PM. Reason: formatting & MM

  9. #54
    Hero of Algol
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    Quote Originally Posted by StarMist View Post
    Better on CD = Flink. It's historically broken on Mega Drive.
    Why do you say "broken"?

  10. #55
    What? Shir is gone? Raging in the Streets StarMist's Avatar
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    Flink on the MCD is already a slow moving game with many stop and start divisions to each stage along with a stop and start run mechanic with IMO a dodgy jump mechanic (I don't normally label opinions but this one merits the label since I confessedly don't know this title deeply). Mix in some gross slowdown and you have a broken engine. As I said I don't know Flink deeply on either console but this is an assessment you'll find broadly backed up. Perhaps in the case of a more enjoyable title 'broken' were excessive but in Flink's it takes an at best mediocre game and mires it in sidescrolling goo.

  11. #56
    Hero of Algol
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    Quote Originally Posted by StarMist View Post
    Flink on the MCD is already a slow moving game with many stop and start divisions to each stage along with a stop and start run mechanic with IMO a dodgy jump mechanic (I don't normally label opinions but this one merits the label since I confessedly don't know this title deeply). Mix in some gross slowdown and you have a broken engine. As I said I don't know Flink deeply on either console but this is an assessment you'll find broadly backed up. Perhaps in the case of a more enjoyable title 'broken' were excessive but in Flink's it takes an at best mediocre game and mires it in sidescrolling goo.
    I didn't know about slowdown issues on the Mega Drive version... It really breaks a game like that, the controls are painful sometimes...
    Any sources?
    Last edited by Barone; 03-14-2012 at 11:04 PM.

  12. #57
    Raging in the Streets SEGA.GENESIS1989's Avatar
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    I'm not so certain if this is actually true. Rememver Flink was released on the PAL Mega Drive. I imported this game and actually enjoy it on the SEGA Genesis. The controls felt a bit floaty when I initially plugged this sucker into the console. But over time I got used to the controls and it wasn't a big concern as I learnt the opening levels.
    "There's nothing to fear, except fear itself"
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  13. #58
    I remain nonsequitur Shining Hero sheath's Avatar
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    I haven't seen any slowdown in the Sega CD game. Gameplay wise I'd compare it to Mario 3 more than anything else. Similarly, I don't like playing Flink all that much.
    "... If Sony reduced the price of the Playstation, Sega would have to follow suit in order to stay competitive, but Saturn's high manufacturing cost would then translate into huge losses for the company." p170 Revolutionaries at Sony.

    "We ... put Sega out of the hardware business ..." Peter Dille senior vice president of marketing at Sony Computer Entertainment

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    What? Shir is gone? Raging in the Streets StarMist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by agostinhobaroners View Post
    I didn't know about slowdown issues on the Mega Drive version... That really breaks a game like that, the controls are painful sometimes...
    Any sources?
    It's hard finding any, the CD and cart versions tend to get lumped together. Our local reviewer really loved the cart game, but he did say Flink moves "almost as slowly as Greendog".....so you know what, it's possible I reversed the two versions in my head, it may be the SCD version that's worse (how though? I just don't see that. And I did play both). I really thought Greendog (a very easy game) moved a lot faster and smoother than Flink, but then I've never touched PAL Greendog if that's what our reviewer went by. Nonetheless I've seen it mentioned a few times the cart version's inferior, certainly the majority of those times were on this site but naturally all those mentions will be scattered throughout recommendations threads and whatnot. And I believe one of those mentions was from Loggo, an exceedingly strong gamer with a high threshold for frustration, so that would be in a completely different ballpark from my hamhanded moaning. Plus isn't the cart rarer? Were it the better then it would have that much more cachet. Perhaps you could ask sheath or somebody with magazine scans cz there aren't many reviews for either version around. However, since you do enjoy the CD game my feeling is that if you can get anywhere w/o a struggle then it is the MD version that's as bad as I remember one of them being.

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    I DON'T LIKE POKEMON Hero of Algol j_factor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bultje112 View Post
    I can't even believe one person on this world who has played both would say flashback on sega cd is worse than genesis. in fact flashback on sega cd is even better than the 3do and amiga versions
    Please explain. I have both versions and I prefer the Genesis one. But, perhaps I'm missing something. The biggest difference is the cutscenes, which I prefer on Genesis. The original cutscenes have their own style, whereas the Sega CD ones look like typical PSX era cutscenes in really grainy form -- advanced for the time, but still not pretty. The only other differences I noticed are minimal -- better audio but it's a marginal difference, voice acting but it's terrible, faster saving, and that's about it.


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