Samurai Shodown (SNES vs. Sega Mega Drive/Sega Genesis vs. Sega Mega CD)

[chinitosoccer]

The SS Anthology compilations for the PS2 are far from arcade perfect, those aren't actual ports but bad emulated roms, image quality is far from the real "Neo Geo experience", sound is "ok", but its badly scaled and heavily filtered resulting in an ugly mess graphics wise, there are far more accurate ports which run at the real arcade resolution such as the PS1 "SS Yubinan pack" including both SS1 and SS2, and there's also another port for the Fm-Towns wich almost nobody knows because it was only released in Japan.

[Obviously]

Kind of makes me sad that the down-ports of games are sort of being lost to time thanks to MAME and arcade releases on modern console. While it's fantastic we can now more-or-less get the arcade experience at home for cheap, some of the down-ports have their own interesting eccentricities and are still fun in their own right. I don't like the attitude that they're all inferior and thus should be ignored.

[sheath]

The console adaptations were all play tested more extensively than compilations or MAME releases were, we can be assured of that much. Also, all modern consoles introduce controller lag, so the console adaptations are superior in at least two ways.

[Barone]

1. Sega CD -- Assuming the freeze glitch is an urban legend, this has all the original arcade music! Plus all moves. I do miss the announcer, especially IPPON! And I miss the interactive stages, but IMO these are outweighed by the stages generally looking better, the great Neo Geo soundtrack, full move sets, & nice animation including blood effects!

The music isn't exactly the original arcade... They used some lame stuff like including some sfx of the stage in the music. I don't like that at all.
Not only the announcer is missing, but the judge (which is a trademark of SS games) is missing. That just feels totally wrong.
The voice samples and sfx are very low quality, actually the Genesis version ones sound much better and closer to the original ones. When you have the swords hitting against each other it's pretty lame compared to the Genesis version.
The VS options are lame too.

2. Genesis -- Stages and characters seem to look slightly less impressive than on the Sega CD, animations are cut, but it all still looks good. The announcer is present to say IPPON! & some stages are more interactive. The soundtrack can't compare w/ the original soundtrack on Sega CD! Also the reduced move set is not forgivable IMO. Haomaru is missing his strong slash animation! One of the coolest & most iconic moves of the whole game!

I think you're wrong about the stages. Aside from Hanzo's (which has a neat sky effect on the Sega CD), all others are better on the Genesis IMO. And all Sega CD stages are non-interactive (which is another trademark of the SS games). The use of color is better on the Genesis version. Sega CD has some horrible looking stages.
Characters are a tad smaller than the Sega CD version and 95% of the Sega CD frames of animation are there. Due to the stupid 24Mbit limitation of the cartridges published in Japan, it lacks the stronger animation moves of each character, which also made they recycle the moves affecting the gameplay and this is the worst point of this version.
Not only the "ippon!" sample is there but there's also the ones in the beginning of each round unlike the Sega CD version.
The judge is also there and I can't see any missing frames of him compared to the 3DO version, for example. It's a great thing. And also at the end of the fights, characters have their full finishing animation sequence (I'm not talking about the cutscenes, I'm talking about when they characters win a fight and do their final presentation move) while some of them are lacking on the Sega CD.
It has the "fatalities" as the Sega CD version, censored on the SNES.
The Map screen before the fights is much closer to the arcade one, compared to the Sega CD version. The announcer samples are missing here though.
...
Most of the other tons of details I have listed on that Sega CD thread.

3. SNES -- I haven't played it but the small characters look awful, orange blood sounds stupid. & I hate SNES controllers so I won't bother w/ this one.

This version is ass.

Also, everyone mentions the 3DO version as great, plus of course the Neo Geo versions. Are there any other console versions worth mentioning???

Yeah, I have a 3DO and the SS version is great. Should NOT be dismissed like you said on the Sega CD thread. 3DO is region free and the Japanese version (which includes a option to set the language to English) isn't expensive when you buy it on auctions from Japan. And you also can you a burned CD like you're doing for the Sega CD version, without any need of modding the console.
It has the zoom effect from the arcade, Earthquake and most of the original stuff. The voice samples and sfx are deeply muffled to fit in its memory but is still far better than the Sega CD ones. The announcer samples for the names of the fighters were shortened though.
Most of the stage effects are there and everything looks really great.
There's some noticeable frame drop when the fight is zoomed out in some situations in some stages, but nothing that really hurts the gameplay.
The loading times are MUCH shorter compared to the Sega CD and PS1 versions. It's really great when you have your friends at home and don't want to wait a lot to begin each fight.
Full blood and gore (both Sega CD and Genesis version have less blood during the fatalities when compared to the arcade version).
On top of that, the 3DO composite output is probably the best one ever made. It's as sharp as possible for composite and everything looks smooth as fuck, with no artifacts. People usually don't mention it but it does a huge difference when you're playing your games on the actual real hardware. PS1 version doesn't look as great in comparison due to that; only when using SCART or video component output.

And, yes, the PS1 version worth to be mentioned (Samurai Spirits: Kenkaku Yubinan Pack; also contains SSII). It's an awesome port and not the emulation garbage of the PS2 generation.
It's very very close to the arcade. No slowdowns, all graphical effects, all voices and sfx (and they sound really great).

Also since we're on the topic, I have the PS2 Samurai Shodown Anthology which is supposed to be pretty much arcade perfect. I also have SS1 on the Neo Geo Collection which is supposed to be slightly less accurate. What was supposed to be wrong w/ that version?

Bullshit. Never trust in today's stupid gamers' opinions. They probably never played the original version and always claim that the PS2 versions are arcade perfect when they are actually emulated garbage and deeply flawed. It applies to most of the PS2 compilations.
The PS1 version is the one to go if you don't have a Neo Geo. And the 3DO version also looks far better.

I wouldn't even bother with these crappy ports. But after I saw the ports for the PCE I was shocked at how good they looked. It's a damn shame that this game wasn't released on the PCE as it could've blown these ports away. BTW YTF doesn't the SCD version not have any zooming? I don't think any SCD fighting game has any scaling in it.

All PCE versions are great but they all have flat backgrounds which look nothing like the arcade. And I also miss a PCE Arcade CD version of SS.

About the zooming, well, the 3DO struggles with it at times; just imagine the Sega CD trying to do it. Even more considering the dogshit company responsible for the SS port on the system (the Genesis version was made by Saurus, a far more competent company).

The SS Anthology compilations for the PS2 are far from arcade perfect, those aren't actual ports but bad emulated roms, image quality is far from the real "Neo Geo experience", sound is "ok", but its badly scaled and heavily filtered resulting in an ugly mess graphics wise, there are far more accurate ports which run at the real arcade resolution such as the PS1 "SS Yubinan pack" including both SS1 and SS2, and there's also another port for the Fm-Towns wich almost nobody knows because it was only released in Japan.

This.
The same occurs with other collections with games like Marble Madness. Man, the screen aspect is always wrong and the graphics look awful.

About the FM Towns version, IDK if it's all that great. It was done by JHV (???) and looks unfaithful in several details.

While it's fantastic we can now more-or-less get the arcade experience at home for cheap

No, you're getting cheap emulation for cheap. And I still find a well set PC + emulator hooked to a TV a better deal. At least I can adjust the resolution and other options using some good sense.

The console adaptations were all play tested more extensively than compilations or MAME releases were, we can be assured of that much. Also, all modern consoles introduce controller lag, so the console adaptations are superior in at least two ways.

This.
They just don't care about the gameplay anymore... They don't care if the analog stick is out of calibration for games like Roadblasters or if just totally suck to play Marble Madness with a analog stick since you have no precision at all.
They just throw those roms there and print "arcade experience at home" on the back cover. Seems to be working though...

[sheath]

This.
They just don't care about the gameplay anymore... They don't care if the analog stick is out of calibration for games like Roadblasters or if just totally suck to play Marble Madness with a analog stick since you have no precision at all.
They just throw those roms there and print "arcade experience at home" on the back cover. Seems to be working though...

When I first got my Xbox I was really excited to get whichever compilations had Final Fight, S.T.U.N. Runner, San Francisco Rush and other games that I just always wanted in Arcade perfect form. I ended up trading every single one of those compilations because of screwed up gameplay speed, muted audio, or something else that was just stupid. I'm not sure why, but for some reason emulation cheapens the games even when the differences are imperceptible. I'll play Shinobi on Master System or PCE just for fun, but I can't stand it on the Xbox 360. I even have two super nice HORI USB joysticks to contend with the controller lag and I still don't like the XBLA releases, something just feels off.

[Thenewguy]

Take with a grain of salt as its been a long time -

The SNES version is abysmal, the graphics are terrible, and it pretty much looks very much like an 8-Bit game (with a little more colour), the sound IIRC was also absolutely horrific, worst version, by far.

The Mega Drive version is a 6-button game, its more fluid than the SNES game, and I think more of the combos work, though some of the moves now share animation, the music is poor but its better than in the SNES.

[Ecco]

Good to know about the superior PS1 port of Samurai Shodown. I'll have to hunt that down! It's funny bc I swear I always heard that the PS2 SS Anthology was supposed to be almost perfect. And that the PS2 Neo Geo Collection has SS1 but less accurate than the SS Anthology... Don't know why.

Anyways I'll hunt down that PS1 port sometime!

Also, for the comment about being dismissive of the more expensive systems (Neo Geo and 3DO), fair enough, they shouldn't be dismissed, and they're probably not nearly as expensive as I imagine. Those systems have always been out of my reach so they seem kind of unreal to me... lol

[Barone]

When I first got my Xbox I was really excited to get whichever compilations had Final Fight, S.T.U.N. Runner, San Francisco Rush and other games that I just always wanted in Arcade perfect form. I ended up trading every single one of those compilations because of screwed up gameplay speed, muted audio, or something else that was just stupid. I'm not sure why, but for some reason emulation cheapens the games even when the differences are imperceptible. I'll play Shinobi on Master System or PCE just for fun, but I can't stand it on the Xbox 360. I even have two super nice HORI USB joysticks to contend with the controller lag and I still don't like the XBLA releases, something just feels off.

I remember when people said that MKII inside Shaolin Monks was arcade perfect. Then I played it and discovered that it was just as "perfect" as the M.A.M.E. emulation, in other words, abysmal.

Take with a grain of salt as its been a long time -

The SNES version is abysmal, the graphics are terrible, and it pretty much looks very much like an 8-Bit game (with a little more colour), the sound IIRC was also absolutely horrific, worst version, by far.

The Mega Drive version is a 6-button game, its more fluid than the SNES game, and I think more of the combos work, though some of the moves now share animation, the music is poor but its better than in the SNES.

You remembered and described it correctly.

Good to know about the superior PS1 port of Samurai Shodown. I'll have to hunt that down! It's funny bc I swear I always heard that the PS2 SS Anthology was supposed to be almost perfect. And that the PS2 Neo Geo Collection has SS1 but less accurate than the SS Anthology... Don't know why.

Anyways I'll hunt down that PS1 port sometime!

Also, for the comment about being dismissive of the more expensive systems (Neo Geo and 3DO), fair enough, they shouldn't be dismissed, and they're probably not nearly as expensive as I imagine. Those systems have always been out of my reach so they seem kind of unreal to me... lol

Don't take my comment on your dismiss on the bad side, please. I understand your reasons and it seems to be the common sense nowadays.
But being in USA you probably can get a Panasonic 3DO FZ-10 (by far, the more reliable and best option to play burned games) for something around $50-70. And you can play the game using a CD-R (it's very easy to burn games for the 3DO; not the usual problems that you would have with the PS1) until you find a copy for a fair price (I think I saw some Japanese copies in great condition ending the auction around $10-15). The 3DO controls aren't great, but they do the job for this game.
The PS1 version usually goes for $20-30 but I think it's still a good deal since you also get the second game and it's also a very good port.
For SSIII and SSIV go for the Saturn versions. SSIV is a good port on the PS1 (SSIII is abysmal on it) but the Saturn version is clearly superior.

[Ecco]

^Thanks for the info! I do love the SS series so I do appreciate it. It's funny that I swear people told me a few years ago that the PS2 SS Anthology was nearly perfect, so that was the notion I've had all these years. lol I guess it was wrong advice in the first place. I do have the SS Anthology, plus the Neo Geo collection with SS1.

I guess my next purchase will be that PS1 game mentioned (SS1 & SS2). I don't usually keep my Saturn set up, but maybe the SS series would get my Saturn a permanent spot on the shelf.

I'm a bit shocked & disappointed to hear the SS Anthology slammed. If I had received this advice years ago, I would have passed on the SS Anthology and just got that PS1 game!

[Barone]

Yeah, the main problem with the SNK collections on the PS2 is what chinitosoccer said: the lame filtering.

I remember that I read something about those collections several years ago...
It was something like Sony wanted those SNK classics on the PS2, then SNK Playless showed a demo but got screwed by Sony since it was all using low res. After a lot of shit, they came into an agreement that the games would be released in compilations but using filters like 2XSAI to "increase" the resolution. A very nasty way to increase the resolution. With those filters you always lost a lot in terms of graphic details. So if you're using a Neo Geo with Scart/Component cable or a a PS1 with Scart/Component or even the 3DO with S-Video or Composite you'll see a lot more details.
And since it's all emulated on the PS2 you'll always have additional little problems. The sound will never be as clear as on the Neo Geo and IIRC the game had some moments running at wrong speed during the fights. These are little details that you may not notice if you never played the arcade version or if just played the collection version for 30 minutes. But if you really dig the game you'll always feel that is something wrong with the gameplay, something missing on the controls and overall feeling. And I'm not talking about the nostalgia.

[Azathoth]

And that the PS2 Neo Geo Collection has SS1 but less accurate than the SS Anthology... Don't know why?

It's a US based developer using a completely different (and infinitely shittier) emulation engine. This same developer did the PSP & Wii compilations, which also have varying degrees of shittiness.

Fun fact, the PSP SS compilation contains SSVS but the frontend blocks you from selecting it.

[Ecco]

About the music on Sega CD, someone mentioned it's not arcade perfect, and for example, they said that some sound effects are now mixed into the music? I think I know what u mean: instead of sound effects being separate on their own, they are now automatic parts of the music. That's what u mean, right?

Also, aside from that sound effect thing, is the soundtrack accurate to the arcade? I would hope so, since it's on CD... (I wd hope it's just a straight recording of the arcade music.)

Also, does anyone know WHY developers left out the referee & announcer? And interactive backgrounds? The Genesis version has all that, so there can't possibly be a technical limitation to leave them out on Sega CD. (Still the CD soundtrack outweighs all this IMO.)

[Barone]

About the music on Sega CD, someone mentioned it's not arcade perfect, and for example, they said that some sound effects are now mixed into the music? I think I know what u mean: instead of sound effects being separate on their own, they are now automatic parts of the music. That's what u mean, right?

Yes. The best example is in Genan Shiranui's stage, this one:


It was really a lazy job by Funcom. The Sega CD's soundchip was more than capable of doing those effects in stereo and using good panning effect. But they were very lazy/incompetent, so the stages are not interactive and then there's no "need" to use real sfx since those flames will be always there. If you could broke those objects the sfx should be turned off.
The Sega CD version lost a good oportunnity of bringing the sfx closer to the arcade compared to the other 16-bit ports... IIRC there's no distinction if you or your opponent hits the floor at the left or right part of the screen (I mean, the sfx always use left and right sides with no panning). I can't remember if the 3DO version got it 100% right but I'm pretty sure that the PS1 version did, which makes the game sound way better when you're playing using a good stereo.

Also, aside from that sound effect thing, is the soundtrack accurate to the arcade? I would hope so, since it's on CD... (I wd hope it's just a straight recording of the arcade music.)

I need to check it. I'll do it later today.

Also, does anyone know WHY developers left out the referee & announcer?

First, Funcom was never a competent developer and even less for arcade fighting games ports. They were also responsible for the atrocious Sega CD port of Fatal Fury Special; which looks like a 8-bit game and plays like broken shit.
Second, the Sega CD's soundchip RAM is very limited and it sure didn't help.
But if Funcom was a competent developer they could have used some tricks or at least gave the option to have all/most of the sounds using loadings (the game loadings are also much bigger than Eternal Champions on the Sega CD, for an example; something that also indicates their incompetence since they couldn't even arrange the CD data in such a way that it would be optimized to be loaded). It wouldn't have been much trouble to include all the round announcement samples (equivalent to "Round 1", "Fight!"...) and then make a brief pause before the fight begins to replace those samples with in fight samples; the 3DO version did that. At the end of the rounds/fights it's more annoying to see the game pausing to load something like "Haomaru!" (assuming that it really couldn't fit in the Sega CD's soundchip RAM) but, still, you could have an option to enable it if you want all the sounds and didn't care about the loading at the end of the fight (it would be something like 1 second loading) (like the poor port of MKI on the Sega CD forced you to wait or like the MKII port for the PS1 had as an option).
You could also had all the sfx and samples using the Genesis side to output some of the sfx. As you can hear, the sfx are good on the Genesis version. Imagine that sfx quality with higher quality voice samples since the sfx would be handled by the Genesis side and the voices by the Sega CD, in other words, having more room for the voice samples in the Sega CD RAM. Eternal Champions does it poorly recycling some sfx of the Genesis version but several other Sega CD games used both soundchips and processors to produce better sounding games, like Wing Commander and Silpheed.

The referee is not there maybe 'cause they found easier to avoid flickering without him and probably 'cause they would have lost some colors with the referee. The characters in Sega CD version have colors closer to the arcade version compared to the Genesis one (however, I remember seeing a color counting example showing that the Genesis SS version usually has 35-42 colors per screen, which is very good compared to most of the other games). The referee sprites would also make the loadings a bit longer since the game seems to be seeking a lot for data during the loadings due to their incompetence (in theory, the Sega CD shouldn't take more than 5-6 seconds to fill all its RAM but when you have to seek for the data in the CD it can be a lot longer; seeks usually are the most expensive part of the loading process). And to program the referee logic would take sometime and they seemed to be in a very tight schedule to develop that game.

And interactive backgrounds? The Genesis version has all that, so there can't possibly be a technical limitation to leave them out on Sega CD. (Still the CD soundtrack outweighs all this IMO.)

It's probably lazyness + incompetence + lack of time to implement.
Genesis version was done by Saurus, which was like a second party of SNK. They probably had full access to the original source code of the game and I doubt that Funcom had it.

[Aarzak]

It's a US based developer using a completely different (and infinitely shittier) emulation engine. This same developer did the PSP & Wii compilations, which also have varying degrees of shittiness.

Fun fact, the PSP SS compilation contains SSVS but the frontend blocks you from selecting it.

Only the KOF: Orochi Saga, Metal Slug Anthology and SNK Arcade Classics Vol.1 compilations were developed in the U.S. The rest were ports from the Japanese-developed SNK compilations, which varied in quality (supposedly the SS and Last Blade collections were the ones with the worst emulation of them all).

[Mark Robert]

I can only comment on the Genesis version since it's the only one I own. It's a really beautiful looking game with big character sprites and loads of detail in the interactive backgrounds. However, it comes at the cost of almost perpetual slowdown. I sometimes think that maybe they shouldn't have even tried to port this neo-geo game which was technically too advanced for a good port on the Genesis. However, I still like this port which, in the end, was more ambitious than the console could run smoothly. The music also does not get enough credit in this discussion. It has a nice oriental feel to it.