Retro Gen Adapter

[WaverBoy]

Ace, you gotta LOTTA time on yer hands... :-)

[Ace]

Hey, I enjoy this. And besides, there is a market for these kinds of things. My purpose is to give a no-bullshit look at the maximum number of modern Famiclones and Geniclones to guide people over to the ones that are good and keep them away from those that are complete trash. A market like this where anything goes needs people like me willing to take some time to check these things out and test them to the max(and also fix what the manufacturers screw up).

On that note, I will say that over the next few days, I will run a full compatibility test on the RetroGen Adapter and post a full review of the adapter.

[chessage]

Still, I don't understand what is with this stupid adapter working on only 3 of my Super NESes. This makes no sense whatsoever. On some systems, though, it seems to get less than 5V. I'm confused.

1.) Re-flow the solder around the ASIC pins, connector, and SMT components.

2.) Check the datasheet on the voltage regulator that the cartridge uses and see if the power requirements are being met.

A market like this where anything goes needs people like me willing to take some time to check these things out and test them to the max(and also fix what the manufacturers screw up).

A market like this needs a clone manufacturer that puts a concert effort into their products!

[Ace]

1.) Re-flow the solder around the ASIC pins, connector, and SMT components.

HELL NO!!! I am not reflowing the solder on any ASIC. It just results in more problems.

2.) Check the datasheet on the voltage regulator that the cartridge uses and see if the power requirements are being met.

I'll be sure to do that once I open up the RetroGen.

A market like this needs a clone manufacturer that puts a concert effort into their products!

Even if such manufacturers existed, there would still be some making junk clones, further proof a market like this needs people who will take some time to extensively test any clone console put out on the market.

[chessage]

HELL NO!!! I am not reflowing the solder on any ASIC. It just results in more problems.

Risk has potential benefits, risk has potential consequences. It's best to aim for the former in spite of the latter.

Even if such manufacturers existed, there would still be some making junk clones, further proof a market like this needs people who will take some time to extensively test any clone console put out on the market.

I don't disagree with you, Ace, but I believe there should be at least one truly recommendable clone console on the market now. This just isn't the case yet.

[Ace]

Risk has potential benefits, risk has potential consequences. It's best to aim for the former in spite of the latter.

At this rate, I might as well just exchange the RetroGen. Yesterday, when I went to use it, the adapter simply refused to power on. It didn't matter what Super NES system I plugged it into, it would not power up until I hit the adapter. I have 30 days to exchange it, so I might as well send it back and get another one than be stuck with a useless paperweight after taking a soldering iron to the GOAC.

I don't disagree with you, Ace, but I believe there should be at least one truly recommendable clone console on the market now. This just isn't the case yet.

Point made. But right now, it seems the only manufacturer that consistently makes (somewhat) acceptable clones is RetroBit. I have their RES and RetroDuo v2.0(might get a v3.0 later on to see how it changed from the v2.0, not to mention, I'm having video issues on the Super NES side of the RetroDuo v2.0 and the NES side simply refuses to cooperate with my capture equipment) and they do a pretty good job, though the RES doesn't work with the usual problem games(but guess what? You CAN make it work with Castlevania III) and the RetroDuo's audio amp is missing components, resulting in major distortion. Lately, their RetroDuo Portable seems to be better than any Super NES clone, though the NES compatibility is still a problem and I've heard the RetroPort adapter it comes with hit false notes on the square waves(why this happens, I have no idea). They're also now selling the Gen-X 2-in-1 NES/Genesis combo clone(this is the 2nd time the Gen-X has returned into production; the first two production runs were sold by Innex themselves, but this 3rd production run is sold by RetroBit), and I'd be curious to see if it's any different from the first production run.

[chessage]

At this rate, I might as well just exchange the RetroGen. Yesterday, when I went to use it, the adapter simply refused to power on. It didn't matter what Super NES system I plugged it into, it would not power up until I hit the adapter. I have 30 days to exchange it, so I might as well send it back and get another one than be stuck with a useless paperweight after taking a soldering iron to the GOAC.

Yeah, definitely a solder-related issue. Your call...

(... I'm having video issues on the Super NES side of the RetroDuo v2.0 and the NES side simply refuses to cooperate with my capture equipment)

Have you tried looking for a capture card that's designed more towards recording 240p sources?

... the RetroDuo's audio amp is missing components, resulting in major distortion.

On the plus side, they just saved a bunch of money that they can put towards making more corner-cut clones!

They're also now selling the Gen-X 2-in-1 NES/Genesis combo clone(this is the 2nd time the Gen-X has returned into production; the first two production runs were sold by Innex themselves, but this 3rd production run is sold by RetroBit), and I'd be curious to see if it's any different from the first production run.

I doubt they changed it. BTW, When it runs Master System games, are they completely glitch-free?

[Ace]

Yeah, definitely a solder-related issue. Your call...

I've contacted the seller about a return. If he doesn't respond, I'll fix it myself. My guess is the problem has to do with the Reset line on the Super NES cartridge slot(pin 26). I put a piece of electric tape over some pins on the card-edge where the adapter plugs into the Super NES, and as soon as I covered up the Reset pin, the RetroGen stopped working on all Super NES consoles. Remove the tape, and it works again. Judging by some pictures I've been sent of the adapter, the Reset line appears to be linked to pin 15 of three different 74HC595 shift registers. Who knows something about the Super NES' hardware? I would like to know if the Reset signal is an input into the console or an output to the cartridge.

Have you tried looking for a capture card that's designed more towards recording 240p sources?

I have a capture device capable of recording video off my RetroDuo's NES side as well as my Master System and Genesis in full color, but it records at a much lower resolution, a lower framerate and it has a tendency to A) drop the video feed or B) stay stuck at a particular frame and never get off that frame. I do, however, have an old ATI All-in-Wonder 128 AGP graphics card with Composite, S-Video and RF inputs, so if I can get a computer put together with that graphics card in it, I'll give it a shot.

The thing is: this capture device works just fine with Nintendo and NEC hardware. If I try to record anything off an NES, Super NES, Nintendo 64 or any of my TurboGrafx 16/PC Engine hardware, it records them no problem.

Oh, and another thing about the RetroDuo: the NES side displays no color whatsoever on my Commodore 1084S or Toshiba 32" LCD TV(except on the latter, I see scrolling strips of rainbow colors). Seems there's some weird stuff going on in the video signal. Too much DC offset, perhaps?

On the plus side, they just saved a bunch of money that they can put towards making more corner-cut clones!

How about designing a brand new NOAC from scratch instead of wasting said money on cheap-o clones we don't need in a market flooded with half-assed Famiclones?

I doubt they changed it.

We'll see when I get one.

BTW, When it runs Master System games, are they completely glitch-free?

Sadly, no. Like every GOAC I've come across, Master System games have some graphical errors. It doesn't matter whether it's the TecToy-580G in the Gen-X and GN Twin, the TCT6035 in the newest revisions of the FC3 Plus or the TCT-6801 in the RetroN3 and RetroGen Adapter, Master System games have graphical errors. The extent of the graphical errors depends entirely on the game.

[chessage]

I've contacted the seller about a return. If he doesn't respond, I'll fix it myself. My guess is the problem has to do with the Reset line on the Super NES cartridge slot(pin 26). I put a piece of electric tape over some pins on the card-edge where the adapter plugs into the Super NES, and as soon as I covered up the Reset pin, the RetroGen stopped working on all Super NES consoles. Remove the tape, and it works again. Judging by some pictures I've been sent of the adapter, the Reset line appears to be linked to pin 15 of three different 74HC595 shift registers. Who knows something about the Super NES' hardware? I would like to know if the Reset signal is an input into the console or an output to the cartridge.

It sounds like an input.

I have a capture device capable of recording video off my RetroDuo's NES side as well as my Master System and Genesis in full color, but it records at a much lower resolution, a lower framerate and it has a tendency to A) drop the video feed or B) stay stuck at a particular frame and never get off that frame. I do, however, have an old ATI All-in-Wonder 128 AGP graphics card with Composite, S-Video and RF inputs, so if I can get a computer put together with that graphics card in it, I'll give it a shot.

The thing is: this capture device works just fine with Nintendo and NEC hardware. If I try to record anything off an NES, Super NES, Nintendo 64 or any of my TurboGrafx 16/PC Engine hardware, it records them no problem.

I've heard that the MD/G capture card issues may be C-Sync-related. Try replacing the 2.2K pull-up resistor on the C-Sync line with one rated at 1K and see if it works any better.

How about designing a brand new NOAC from scratch instead of wasting said money on cheap-o clones we don't need in a market flooded with half-assed Famiclones?

Because innovating is every bit as cheap as re-using, right?

Sadly, no. Like every GOAC I've come across, Master System games have some graphical errors. It doesn't matter whether it's the TecToy-580G in the Gen-X and GN Twin, the TCT6035 in the newest revisions of the FC3 Plus or the TCT-6801 in the RetroN3 and RetroGen Adapter, Master System games have graphical errors. The extent of the graphical errors depends entirely on the game.

I'd assume launch titles have no trouble, at the very least.

[Ace]

I've heard that the MD/G capture card issues may be C-Sync-related. Try replacing the 2.2K pull-up resistor on the C-Sync line with one rated at 1K and see if it works any better.

I'm not entirely sure that would resolve the almost complete lack of color in the video feed on all my Genesis systems when running their Composite video directly into the Composite input(but it works in full color when run into the S-Video input, although it looks ugly like hell). I will say, though, that my capture device gets all the color information from the Composite coming out of my European MegaDrive Model 1, but has absolutely no horizontal sync(the picture keeps rolling horizontally).

I'd assume launch titles have no trouble, at the very least.

I think graphical garbage mostly happens when a memory paging chip is in the cartridge, but the extent of the garbage varies from game to game. After Burner has a lot of garbage, Space Harrier has some, R-Type's only got a few garbage pixels here and there, same with Double Dragon, and I'm not sure which of my other games have memory paging chips in them.

[chessage]

I'm not entirely sure that would resolve the almost complete lack of color in the video feed on all my Genesis systems when running their Composite video directly into the Composite input(but it works in full color when run into the S-Video input, although it looks ugly like hell).

It should help with picture stability issues.

I will say, though, that my capture device gets all the color information from the Composite coming out of my European MegaDrive Model 1, but has absolutely no horizontal sync(the picture keeps rolling horizontally).

With the capture card set to 50Hz recording?

I think graphical garbage mostly happens when a memory paging chip is in the cartridge, but the extent of the garbage varies from game to game. After Burner has a lot of garbage, Space Harrier has some, R-Type's only got a few garbage pixels here and there, same with Double Dragon...

What about Hang-On/Safari Hunt?

[Ace]

It should help with picture stability issues.

I'll give this a shot on my region-converted v2.4 Master System.

However, I don't think this will fix the problem on a GOAC clone. GOAC clones have the same color issues as original hardware.

On an unrelated note, I have color issues when using my CRT TV's Composite output as well. For some reason, when I use the Composite output of my TV, the contrast is WAY too high, making most pale colors show up white. Any way around this(preferably without opening up the TV)?

With the capture card set to 50Hz recording?

Yes. If the capture device is set the NTSC, there's no picture. In PAL, the picture rolls horizontally.

What about Hang-On/Safari Hunt?

I'll have to get back to you on that, but I do remember Safari Hunt showing no graphical garbage(this is on the RetroN3. I doubt the RetroGen Adapter would work with Safari Hunt).

EDIT: The resistor replacement just made things worse than they already were. The video signal doesn't even sync up anymore on my capture device unless I use a splitter(keep in mind: I have a 33ohm resistor going from the CXA1145's Composite output to my TV instead of a 75ohm resistor due to very heavily oversaturated colors on this Master System). And even when the video signal is in sync, there's no color whatsoever. I was able to get SOME color with a 2.2Kohm resistor, but now, I have no color whatsoever.

EDIT 2: Putting a stronger resistor doesn't help either.

[KnightWarrior]

Safari Hunt would work. but you can't start it without the gun

Any work did Retrobit get back to you?

[chessage]

On an unrelated note, I have color issues when using my CRT TV's Composite output as well. For some reason, when I use the Composite output of my TV, the contrast is WAY too high, making most pale colors show up white. Any way around this(preferably without opening up the TV)?

Haven't you tried accessing the TV's service menu? Or the adjustment menu for your capture card?

Yes. If the capture device is set the NTSC, there's no picture. In PAL, the picture rolls horizontally.

And the Mega Drive is connected directly to the capture card?

I'll have to get back to you on that, but I do remember Safari Hunt showing no graphical garbage(this is on the RetroN3. I doubt the RetroGen Adapter would work with Safari Hunt).

That sounds about right.

EDIT: The resistor replacement just made things worse than they already were. The video signal doesn't even sync up anymore on my capture device unless I use a splitter(keep in mind: I have a 33ohm resistor going from the CXA1145's Composite output to my TV instead of a 75ohm resistor due to very heavily oversaturated colors on this Master System). And even when the video signal is in sync, there's no color whatsoever. I was able to get SOME color with a 2.2Kohm resistor, but now, I have no color whatsoever.

EDIT 2: Putting a stronger resistor doesn't help either.

It was worth a shot. Does a stock Genesis with a KA2195D show up in black & white on your card?

Safari Hunt would work. but you can't start it without the gun

That's why Hang-On is on there!

[Ace]

Haven't you tried accessing the TV's service menu? Or the adjustment menu for your capture card?

I did access my TV's service menu, but no matter what settings I tweak, the Composite output still produces bad colors. Adjusting my capture device helps somewhat, but certain pale colors still show up white even though I adjust the video settings on my capture device.

And the Mega Drive is connected directly to the capture card?

I've tried connecting the European MegaDrive directly to the capture device and via splitter so I can play my games without the delay induced by my capture device. There's no horizontal sync either way.

It was worth a shot. Does a stock Genesis with a KA2195D show up in black & white on your card?

It doesn't matter what video encoder is used, the video out of every Genesis and Master System I have shows up with no color. Even my Master System II's video shows up with no color(and this thing has RF only - the video comes from my TV's Composite output as the capture device has no RF input, just Composite and S-Video)!

I think I should pull out my 1.8GHz Pentium 4 computer and install my ATI All-in-Wonder Rage 128 to see if it would take the Genesis and Master System's Composite video without having to pass the video signal into the S-Video input.

And one last thing: the RetroGen gives my capture device a VERY hard time. It's highly prone to going out of sync on all brightly-colored screens, in particular white and yellow(the latter being Stage 2 in After Burner II). I presume the video signal is too strong?